transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:00] Don't forget, Viall Files Plus now offers ad-free episodes for all Viall Files episodes, including Ask Nick, Reality Recap and Going Deeper. Plus, if you love Ask Nick, you will absolutely love our Ask Nick updates where you get updates of your favorite calls, our deep dive on all your favorite Reality Recap TV shows, and our pop culture roundups where we talk about all your favorite pop culture topics that we didn't get to in this week's episode. Plus, deep dives on our Going Deeper guest and so much more. All you have to do is go to Viall Files Plus and you will be lucky you did. How's it going?

Speaker 2:
[00:52] It's going. My name is Rachel. I am 37. And my question for you, Nick, is how long does he have to gray rock his baby mama before she gives up?

Speaker 1:
[01:04] What is gray rock?

Speaker 2:
[01:07] So I actually just found this term myself. I was not familiar, but apparently it means when somebody's contacting you and you have no interest in contacting them back or playing that game, you give them one word answers or very short answers until they get the point.

Speaker 1:
[01:28] Who's gray rocking who in this scenario?

Speaker 2:
[01:32] My boyfriend is gray rocking his baby mama.

Speaker 1:
[01:36] And you want that to stop, period?

Speaker 2:
[01:39] I think that their consistent communication is unnecessary and we've been together for over two years now. So I've been told several, several times, it's just about the kid. It's just about the kid and it's not. So what's your take on this?

Speaker 1:
[02:01] You do acknowledge that he has to co-parent with this person if he chooses to want to be in this child's life, correct? Yeah. So-

Speaker 2:
[02:09] Oh yes, I'm full on co-parenting.

Speaker 1:
[02:12] What in your mind is actually happening that you think is unnecessary outside of the expectations of co-parenting?

Speaker 2:
[02:21] So in my mind, I believe that conversations like, hey, oh my God, I just slept horribly or I had such a great workout and this is what I did today. That for me seems unnecessary.

Speaker 1:
[02:38] That's fair. And so he's responding to this stuff?

Speaker 2:
[02:42] In so much as like, yeah, good, nice. So that's what I would call gray rocking.

Speaker 1:
[02:48] And he says, and his justification to you is what?

Speaker 2:
[02:52] Keeping the peace. Like, we've known each other for so long and maybe she just doesn't have a friend like this that she can talk to.

Speaker 1:
[03:02] Were they married?

Speaker 2:
[03:04] No.

Speaker 1:
[03:05] How long were they together for?

Speaker 2:
[03:07] I think like close to 15 years.

Speaker 1:
[03:10] Oh, okay. And how old?

Speaker 2:
[03:12] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[03:12] And how many kids do they have together?

Speaker 2:
[03:15] One.

Speaker 1:
[03:16] One. How old is the child?

Speaker 2:
[03:19] Fourteen.

Speaker 1:
[03:19] Okay. Okay. Yeah. So definitely less of a kids getting older or independent. How long you been together with your boyfriend?

Speaker 2:
[03:30] Just over two years now.

Speaker 1:
[03:31] Okay. And I'm assuming this has always been an issue?

Speaker 2:
[03:36] It has. It's always been an issue. When I met the mother, it was just kind of like there was no interest at all in meeting me. There was, it was very, a very protective meetup, meaning like when we've all three were together, she was very much like next to him and, you know, kind of like guarded in the whole situation. So it's always been like that. It's never, I've tried my hardest to be like, hey, do you want to grab a coffee sometime? Hey, do you want to do this, do that? And it's like, no.

Speaker 1:
[04:13] She has no interest. And then when you, how many times are you guys hanging out together?

Speaker 2:
[04:18] Not often, mostly for like sporting events for the kid.

Speaker 1:
[04:24] And when that does happen, do you feel like he's still in any way considering her like feelings?

Speaker 2:
[04:33] Considering her feelings, yes. And I don't have a problem with that. I think that's very genuine. That's nice.

Speaker 1:
[04:39] Yeah, I guess what I mean by like, you know, you said soccer game, right? You go to a soccer game. Does he treat her any differently than he does say any of the other like parents?

Speaker 2:
[04:50] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[04:51] Because I would think at this stage, yes, it would be weird. Like you should feel like his partner. You should feel like his priority. It sounds to me like, you know, at this stage of the game, you really feel like this is his ex, in a way that there's still a there there almost. As opposed to this is, we have a kid together, and we're both showing up, and it's, we communicate because we have a kid together, but you find that there's an intimacy there almost, in a way?

Speaker 2:
[05:24] Yeah. It's like, on her end, like, this is my best friend, and I'll say whatever I want whenever I want, like, 7 a.m. text rolling in doesn't give a shit. Sorry.

Speaker 1:
[05:38] You can swear.

Speaker 2:
[05:40] Okay. It's just like, for me, it's inconsiderate, and it honestly goes against girl code if there were any, you know, but.

Speaker 1:
[05:51] She's not going to subscribe to girl code when it comes to you. And quite frankly, like, she's not going to be the one who solves this issue for her. Like, you know, that would be great.

Speaker 2:
[06:02] Exactly. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[06:03] Yeah. It would be great if she took you up on the offer, and it would be great if she wanted to respect your boundaries. But, you know, she's not going to. She's not incentivized. And yeah, I mean, from her perspective, like, doesn't mean she's right, but like, you know, this is a guy she's known forever. I don't know why they're not together or who knows, and I'm sure she has some feelings about that, but they do have this child together. And in a way that you're a threat to that. And like, there's probably a competitive element of like, you know, she probably likes knowing that she can still get him to do things. So anyways, I totally get keep the peace from your partner. I understand. And that's probably like, I'm just okay. Like before we move forward, do you at least at a minimum trust his answer, whether you agree with how he's going about it?

Speaker 2:
[06:54] His answer, as far as like this is platonic?

Speaker 1:
[06:58] Of keeping the peace, just being like, you know, I guess what I'm saying is like, there's two scenarios, right? Like scenario one, there's a reason behind why he's doing it that's a little bit more concerning than, you know, keeping the peace in that he wants to maintain this level of closeness with his ex for whatever reason. Or scenario two, I'm hoping and guessing probably, is that like he probably just wants to keep the peace and he's a little bit of a wuss for, you know, having the uncomfortable conversation with his ex or just like being comfortable with disappointing her, which is to just like not respond to like, that was a really tough workout or I didn't sleep well last night. He can literally not respond and he can even not respond to her being like, why didn't you respond? And, you know, next time he sees her, she can be like, why haven't you responded to me? And he could just be like, yeah, sorry, I was just busy, but like, I didn't think it was really all that necessary. And he can be a little bit more short with her and he can be, you know, and if she ever like confronts him about a conversation, just be like, listen, I'm in a relationship and I don't, like, that is a relationship I want to prioritize. But to your point, it feels to you, right? I remember him, but he's, there's a part of your relationship with him that he's not prioritizing. It sounds like there are moments where you feel like he still picks her.

Speaker 2:
[08:37] It's, yeah, and I understand that she is at this point in our lives, like fully ingrained in his family because they've known each other. It's basically like a daughter, a daughter-in-law, whatever you want to call it. But I have no disrespect for this person. I have no harsh feelings. I just find it like absolutely infuriating that this needs to be a thing. Like just find another friend.

Speaker 1:
[09:06] Are you speaking to her or him?

Speaker 2:
[09:08] Her.

Speaker 1:
[09:10] But again, I don't know what conversations you're having with your partner, but the way you speak, you speak like it's a her problem that you're expecting her to change. That's not gonna happen. Just not gonna happen.

Speaker 2:
[09:22] Correct.

Speaker 1:
[09:23] So like all this, this why does she keep doing what she's doing is a waste of your time and it's a waste of your energy and it's just not productive. So don't know how much you're doing that with your partner, but the conversations need to start and end with him.

Speaker 2:
[09:38] So they do. Okay. And so far, what we have come up with is basically what you're saying, like it doesn't mean anything, she just does it and I send like a small response. And I am on your side here. It's like, well, just don't respond or just don't even play into it. I don't, I know I keep going back to it, but it's like a picture will come through and the picture will be like sometimes reminiscing like, oh, do you remember so-and-so from back in the day, they did this and we went there and da-da-da-da. I get it. Like I understand that that elicits a response most times. And it's like, yeah, I remember or...

Speaker 1:
[10:21] Yeah, out of politeness, I get it. You're right. And like at some point, your point is, correct me if I'm wrong, you want to feel like he's picking you. You want to feel like he's saying no to her because he's saying yes to you. Right?

Speaker 3:
[10:36] Yeah, there's just too much brain space.

Speaker 1:
[10:39] You can't have it both ways and she is an ex. She's not like a lifelong friend. And even sometimes platonic relationships between men and women need to change when one of those people enters into a committed romantic relationship. Even if they weren't exes, there sometimes are just boundaries you don't cross. Like even platonic friends in men and women relationships, you can be the most straightforward platonic friends. You can have no desire to see them naked or sleep with them. And there can still be a level of intimacy with that person that might not otherwise be there if it was the same gender. Or maybe you can have, men can love men in friendship ways and there can be a level of intimacy, but assuming they're not gay or bi or even curious, there is a built in boundary of like, well, I don't ever have to worry about that. But it is what it is when it comes to someone with a different gender. And then on top of it, for you, this person is their ex. You know, they have a kid together. So it does makes, you know, that's where I'm hearing from you. And it seems like you haven't really, it seems like you've been pretty passive almost. And this is the way you've been talking to me about how you've spoken to him. Because it sounds like you're trying to negotiate with him about this topic.

Speaker 2:
[12:16] Yeah, it's very touchy, right? Like I don't feel like I have, I would never have enough pull to be 43.

Speaker 1:
[12:26] Okay, you never would have enough pull to what?

Speaker 2:
[12:28] To be like, hey, stop talking to her, because they have a child together. I can't do that, obviously.

Speaker 1:
[12:34] Yeah, I get the position you're in, but I think that's the thing where you have to be confident in your position. And I feel like what your position is, and I agree with your position, which is I'm not asking you not to talk in co-parent with the mother of your child. I'm not asking that. But you don't need to reminisce or respond to her random text that have literally nothing to do with your kid. And guy to guy, or woman, he doesn't have to be a woman to understand that as human beings, we like to test people, and we want to see what we can get away with, and we want to see if we still have any type of power or control in a situation where we definitely know we used to have power and control, and he needs to understand that. And you, I feel like, are in a position, if you found the words and the confidence, to set a clear boundary and not negotiate with him. And I think where you're losing this battle is because you wanna be so respectful to the co-parent part, right? And you feel like you have to, like, thread a needle when it comes to what he can and can't expect. Or he's either playing dumb and being a little gaslighty by, like, playing dumb and acting like there's nothing he can do or he doesn't get it or understand what the issue is. He should be able to understand, if he were to just take a moment and put himself in your shoes, and if this was another guy doing this, it would bother him. It would rub him the wrong way, and it would be very clear to him what would be okay and what would not be okay. You know, and it's just like, you want to feel like he has no issue or discomfort in saying no to her about things that have nothing to do with their child. And right now, he doesn't have that comfort. And there are moments where you feel like he's picking her because like there's this choice, right? He gets a text, he's like, oh fuck. I know it's gonna upset, you know, it's like, it's gonna upset my partner if I do respond, but it's gonna make my life more difficult and accept my ex if I don't respond. And in those moments, he picks her. Yeah. And it's annoying and he doesn't have to pick her. He can choose to upset her, but he right now feels like, and I'm making an assumption here, but I feel like I'm confident in this assumption that his subconscious brain just has decided it's easier to upset you than it's up to upset her. But that's kind of a you problem. I mean, and that's what I'm saying is you have to change that. I think you've been too accommodating. I think you've been too understanding. I think you're trying to negotiate with him about like, what is, you're like, hey, I get you have a child together. So how can we make this work? A few minutes ago, you said, well, what we came up with is if you guys are like coming up with a plan together that it's like, it's so complicated. And so like, oh my God, we gotta sit down and really, really break this down for the next eight hours is how do we make, it's not that hard. It's not that complicated. You don't need to like ask him, you don't need his permission. The fact that he has a child with this person has nothing to do with him responding at 730 AM to like how she, her sleep patterns. You know what I'm saying? It has nothing to do with the 14 child. So you don't have to negotiate with him and you don't have to be like, hey, is this fair? You can be like, this is annoying and I'm tired of pretending that this has anything to do with co-parenting and this has everything to do with like, you still give a shit about her feelings. Which goes above and beyond just you being a considerate human. Because if, you know, if some random fucking person texts him at 730 in the morning, especially if it was a woman, he might not respond.

Speaker 2:
[16:58] Right. And I totally understand everything you just said. My issue is, and this is where you're gonna tell me I'm being passive, is that it's like such a fine line between like, you know, like stop caring and care a little bit, right? It's like, how do you justify, for him, I've told him before what you just said. I was like, this is, it's inappropriate. It's annoying. It's infuriating. And it just needs to stop because it has no like hold over your parenting skills. And he's like, yeah, but I'm, you know, I've done better. I muted the chats. I don't answer right away. Or if I answer, it's just like, I reply with one word. And it's like, that's why I keep going back to, it's her fault, but I can't do anything about that.

Speaker 1:
[17:54] It's not her fault.

Speaker 2:
[17:55] I know, I know.

Speaker 1:
[17:56] It's, he needs to own it a little bit more and you need to be more hard. It's just like, this is not something you really have to try. And I think you need to challenge him to the point where like you're making this out to be more difficult than it needs to be. And you need to call him out for what he is saying. You know, like, do you realize that the way you're acting, you're like, what, I mean, again, maybe he does. Do you need therapy to get over your discomfort with upsetting your ex? Like, you care too much about what she thinks. It's weird that you care so much about her feelings. And again, I'm glad that you're a loving, considerate, empathetic person. That's why you're my partner, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But like, you don't, if you, if I just start randomly texting some guy, I'm like, oh, he was my best friend in high school. Like, because again, the kid has nothing to do with this, with how you communicate her, this, your child has nothing to do with how you communicate with her. And so the fact that you can admit that it's hard or like you're trying, trying? Like, why do you have to try to like be comfortable with annoying her, you know?

Speaker 2:
[19:07] I've asked that before. I thought maybe like, there was something that happened that broke them up. Like, maybe, I was like, oh, maybe he like really devastated her life at some point. That's why he feels so guilty for the rest of time. He's just gonna do whatever she wants.

Speaker 1:
[19:23] I honestly don't think it's that deep. I honestly think that like as human beings, we just, again, we'd rather have peace than not peace, right? We would, you know. And it probably doesn't mean anything to him. And he's probably, it doesn't feel to him like it feels to you. That doesn't change the fact that he's old enough to just acknowledge that the optics and how you feel are more than justified. And just because he is more than comfortable with it doesn't make it like not weird. And it doesn't make it like less comfortable for you to deal with. And as a result of someone who claims to want to be in a committed romantic relationship with you, he has to act accordingly and do what's best for the relationship he claims to want to be in. And he is not showing up for this relationship in a way. And he is just, he is prioritizing keeping the peace in his life, rather than keeping the peace in his relationship. You know, and that is something you have the right to calm out on. At some point, you're just going to have to like draw a line in the sand and be like, the fact that you are drawing this out is a problem to me. And like, I just like, I need to know that I'm outside of your child, a top priority. But right now, sometimes I feel like she's still a priority. Like, because you know it's going to upset me and you do it anyways. Because you would rather upset me than not upset her. And honestly, when you put it like that, it's fucked up. And like, how long do you, I'm not, I'm not going to keep just putting up with this, you know? But the point is, he doesn't see you going anywhere. And it's, again, it's easier for him to upset you because you are clearly more gracious when you're upset than she is. And at the end of the day, that's probably why he does it.

Speaker 2:
[21:20] I could see that. Yeah, probably. And so also I've been through this same exact argument, conversation, whatever you'd like to call it, half the time it's arguments, half the time it's as calm as I can be. I don't know how to keep bringing it up without it sounding like I'm beating a dead horse every time because every time it just seems to result in like, okay, yeah, it's not that deep, okay.

Speaker 1:
[21:51] No, it is. See, like that's dismissive and kind of disrespectful to you. For him to say it's not that deep, it's not about it being that deep. It's just like, fine, I'll just start texting with another guy. And then I'll tell you that's not that deep. Again, he doesn't get to tell you not to care and he doesn't get to tell you to not feel weird about his ex casually having a casual open line of communication with you and texting you about anything at any time when it has literally nothing to do with the child. And he doesn't get to normalize that if he wants to be in a committed relationship with you. And you just have to stick to your guns a little bit better and confidently tell him, like again, to not be dismissive to your feelings. Because he is. And again, he is prioritizing his piece over the piece of the relationship. It just, it's that simple. And I think you just have to not, like again, you seem like a lovely person. I can tell like, you know, it's like you, clearly you've been willing to like have this confrontation. It doesn't seem like it's easy for you. And you don't always feel confident with your ability to feel the way you do and set a clear boundary and expectation. And I just want you to feel when you get off this call to like, you're more than justified. You're not wrong. And bring, yeah, it's not resolved. So therefore you have the right to bring it up again. And he's dismissing your feelings. He is, by pretending it's some sort of complicated thing that, you know, he needs to work towards. It doesn't, like it shouldn't be that hard to go cold turkey. It will, it might irritate her. It might upset her, but that's not his problem. And if she wants to confront him on it, he can just be like, honestly, he could play dumb. And he can be like, let me know when I can pick up my kid. And he can sit down and also he could be like, he can go to his ex partner and be like, listen, you know, she's my partner. She's my priority. Honestly, if you want to continue this, then you need to get to know her. And he needs to like advocate for you. And he needs to stand up for you. And I'm guessing he hasn't done that. I'm guessing he kind of plays, I'm guessing he plays like, oh, I'm the outsider. What am I supposed to do? I'm just like the heartthrob. I'm in this weird, I don't know, what am I supposed to do that all these women want to have me in their orbit? You know, it's just like, I'm just trying to make everyone happy. You know, like it's fucked up. Yeah, like it's not, you have the right to expect more from him in the situation and you have to tell him like you're done being patient and he has to take you seriously and you have to confidently be like, yo, I'm just tired of pretending that this is normal and I'm tired of acting like you need to try to not upset her. And that's what it comes down to.

Speaker 2:
[24:55] And I feel like I've said exactly that before, but I'm guessing you have it.

Speaker 1:
[25:00] I'm guessing you've done it in a way that's just a little bit more passive. And then you kind of ask for, you check in and be like, I just, are you, is that, you know, like you're just really empathetic and I think you're really considerate. And I think that has probably stopped you from being very direct because again, there's a, there is a reason. And I don't think it's because he's in love with her and I don't, I don't think it's that deep, but like she, you want to blame her, but what she is doing differently than you is she is definitely making it more difficult for him to make it hard to disappoint her. And you are not making it as difficult. So you need to make it more difficult, you know? And so if you want to blame anyone, blame yourself. You know what I'm saying? Like it's, it's honestly that simple. Like you're, it's easier for him to, it's easier for him to handle you than handle her in a way. And it's, you should change that.

Speaker 2:
[25:57] It's true. I think that what you're saying brings back the point that it's like, if this person has to, if my partner has to consider her feeling so much that like he's afraid to upset her, yeah, it does make me feel a little less confident having to go to him and be like, this is the deal. Because obviously he keeps referring to her feelings. So I see what you're saying.

Speaker 1:
[26:26] It's a tough position, but you have to ask yourself, if this never changed, am I comfortable being in this relationship and constantly feeling like this? Do you want to feel like you're in second position to someone's ex for the entirety of your relationship? Or are you willing to put your foot down and take the risk that he will never change and threaten to leave and possibly create some distance and just let him know that you're tired of being patient on this particular topic. And if he wants to be with you, he has to start making you feel like a priority. And you're not asking him not to co-parent and you're not asking him not to be respectful with his ex. You're just asking him to stop the inappropriate communication, which it's just a fact that it is. And it's not that hard, it's not that complicated, and he needs to man up a little bit. And I think you need to check him on that and call him out on that.

Speaker 2:
[27:23] Yeah, for sure. I do. You are completely right.

Speaker 1:
[27:27] All right. Is this helpful?

Speaker 2:
[27:29] This is helpful because I've asked so many different types of people. I've had therapy about this. I've talked to my sister who is married with children. I've talked to my best friend who is married without children. And basically, everyone agrees. The type of communication is inconsiderate and unnecessary. And I have every right to just say exactly that.

Speaker 1:
[27:56] So, I mean, I guess the big question is, I mean, it doesn't sound like I've said anything you haven't heard, maybe in a different version. But what is stopping you from taking the advice from your friends, your peers, strangers, your therapist? And putting your foot down and stop and just stop accepting it. You are accepting it.

Speaker 2:
[28:18] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[28:20] You know, the reason why you talk to all these people is because you want that validation that you're not crazy and you're not. But you keep allowing it to happen.

Speaker 2:
[28:31] Yep. It's like a little security backup. Like I want to make sure I'm right.

Speaker 1:
[28:37] Stop allowing it to happen. I mean, it's not going to change unless you do something about it. She's clearly not going to change. It seems unlikely he's going to change. And as long as he can have a cake and eat it too, because as humans we all want it, you're going to have to put your foot down. And you're going to have to be like, honestly, I'm so fucking tired of pretending this is normal. And it's crazy that you're trying to massage this. Just fucking stop. Or like, I'm honestly, I'm done.

Speaker 2:
[29:09] Yeah, I need to do that, you're right. You're right, I just need to do it.

Speaker 1:
[29:12] And lose your shit a little bit.

Speaker 2:
[29:16] Okay, I think I could do that. I can manage.

Speaker 1:
[29:19] All right, keep me posted. It's keep me posted. But this is not going to change unless you do something about it. I mean, aren't you tired of talking about it?

Speaker 2:
[29:30] So freaking tired, man, so tired.

Speaker 1:
[29:32] So do something about it.

Speaker 2:
[29:34] You're right.

Speaker 1:
[29:35] Because I do think while you're tired of it, it's keeping you entertained.

Speaker 2:
[29:43] I'm going to do it.

Speaker 1:
[29:44] All right.

Speaker 2:
[29:45] Thank you. I appreciate you being honest with me. I will. Thank you, Nick.

Speaker 1:
[29:48] You got this.

Speaker 2:
[29:49] Bye.

Speaker 1:
[29:50] All right, bye-bye. How's it going?

Speaker 3:
[29:56] Hey Nick, I'm Cassie. I'm 27 and my question is, is it, am I being dramatic or is it time to end my engagement?

Speaker 1:
[30:05] Why are you considering ending your engagement?

Speaker 3:
[30:08] I just don't think I'm happy, honestly.

Speaker 1:
[30:12] Why don't you think you're happy? Do you feel like you're not happy or do you feel like he doesn't make you happy or you're not happy with him or the relationship? Is it you trying to figure out your happiness or is there something specific about him in the relationship that makes you unhappy? You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 3:
[30:33] Yeah, no, I think it's...

Speaker 1:
[30:36] Can't say both. Which one is more?

Speaker 3:
[30:39] It's probably him.

Speaker 1:
[30:41] Okay.

Speaker 3:
[30:41] Like I'm trying to be happy.

Speaker 1:
[30:43] Why? What? Where do you feel like he is falling short?

Speaker 3:
[30:48] I think maybe it's just him as a whole.

Speaker 1:
[30:51] His existence. It's like his presence.

Speaker 3:
[30:55] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[30:56] But try to narrow it down.

Speaker 3:
[30:59] Like we haven't been together that long. It was great in the beginning.

Speaker 1:
[31:03] How long is not that long?

Speaker 3:
[31:05] Nine months.

Speaker 1:
[31:07] Okay. So that's a quick engagement.

Speaker 3:
[31:11] Yes. Yes, it was.

Speaker 1:
[31:13] I'm picking up a bit of a Southern accent. I don't know if you still live in that area.

Speaker 3:
[31:16] I'm in Alabama.

Speaker 1:
[31:17] Okay. So culturally, like a lot of people do get married young and move quickly in relationships. Did part of your reason of getting engaged have to do with like feeling pressure from your community or outside influences?

Speaker 3:
[31:31] No, I think it was more like pressure with myself.

Speaker 1:
[31:34] Okay.

Speaker 3:
[31:35] I've had like a kind of like serial monogamy.

Speaker 1:
[31:41] What do you mean by that?

Speaker 3:
[31:42] Just like jumping from one relationship to the next. I've never had like a long stretch of being single since.

Speaker 1:
[31:49] How long were you single before you met your fiance?

Speaker 3:
[31:53] Like a month. Okay.

Speaker 1:
[31:55] All right. Yeah. How like, so when you guys met, I mean, did you, like was it just a typical world win honeymoon phase where you giddy and goo goo gaga or whatever? Is this your first engagement?

Speaker 3:
[32:09] It is my first engagement.

Speaker 1:
[32:10] So what was different about this than all your other relationships?

Speaker 3:
[32:15] We met, we went on a date. Our first date was like 14, 15 hours. And then he just kinda didn't go away after that. It was kind of like inseverable.

Speaker 1:
[32:25] Like an infection.

Speaker 3:
[32:26] Yeah, kind of. That sounds so bad.

Speaker 1:
[32:32] I mean, that's how you feel. It's harsh, but yeah.

Speaker 3:
[32:34] I didn't feel that way to begin with though. Or else we probably would not have gotten here.

Speaker 1:
[32:38] So, okay. Well, then how did you feel to begin with?

Speaker 3:
[32:42] To begin with, it was great. I was like, this guy is like the best guy I've ever met. He's nice to me. He, this is about to sound bad. Like he has a job and a car and a home. And I myself like on my own do fine. So like I don't need someone for that.

Speaker 1:
[32:58] But you also don't want to date or get engaged to or marry someone you have to parent either.

Speaker 3:
[33:05] Yes. No, I don't want to parent and I don't want to take care of someone.

Speaker 1:
[33:09] Are you physically attracted to your fiance?

Speaker 3:
[33:12] I was.

Speaker 1:
[33:13] What changed?

Speaker 3:
[33:16] Okay. So last month we went on a cruise together and everything was fine. And then one night he says, I need you to drink more, so you'll have sex with me. And I've not wanted to do anything with him since then.

Speaker 1:
[33:29] He said, I need you to drink more, so you want to have sex with me?

Speaker 3:
[33:32] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[33:34] Was he serious?

Speaker 3:
[33:36] Yeah, I think so. It came off as serious.

Speaker 1:
[33:38] He wasn't goofing around.

Speaker 3:
[33:41] It was wild. I didn't say anything in the moment, but I did bring it up.

Speaker 1:
[33:44] Do you guys have like a lot of drunk sex in the past or something?

Speaker 3:
[33:48] Not a lot.

Speaker 1:
[33:49] It sounds like he was feeling like your sex life had taken a dip. Would that be accurate?

Speaker 3:
[33:56] A little bit of one, but not anything crazy. We were probably still intimate a few times a week.

Speaker 1:
[34:02] So he gave you the Ick basically when you.

Speaker 3:
[34:05] Yeah, when he said that, for sure.

Speaker 1:
[34:07] Yeah, it is kind of an Icky thing.

Speaker 3:
[34:10] And I did. I brought that up to him like two weeks ago. I was like, I have the Ick. What do you say? Well, he's just, we're working on it. So we'll see how that goes. It's not going well from this side of things.

Speaker 1:
[34:22] What do you mean? Did you address it? I mean, like, I don't, because to be honest, in serious, it's like, definitely give you the Ick, but it's like, I'm sure he's a fine guy, but it's just like, you get women drunk, so they sleep with you. It's giving a little.

Speaker 3:
[34:37] Creepy.

Speaker 1:
[34:38] Creepy. Yeah, I think is the gentlest way to say that. And maybe he was joking, we say things that we don't realize in the moment, we don't know what might come across. We've all said things that didn't land before. But yeah, I mean, to be honest, like the solution to this specific thing in terms of like just, hey, that bothered me, you said that and be like, okay, now that you bring it up to me, I get why you feel that way. I shouldn't have said that, oh, it was stupid, it didn't land. And then you can, and then if he feels that way about your sex life, you know, you guys should, you know, he should be allowed to bring it up and you can disagree with, you could be like, I don't know, like life happened and we're busy. And like, honestly, I'm comfortable with the frequency and blah, blah, blah. You know, there can be a back and forth. I'm not sure what, what are you guys working on? When like, what does that mean?

Speaker 3:
[35:25] So when he said that to me, I didn't say anything in the moment. It took me a good few weeks to bring it up because it kind of just changed my perception of him as a whole. He kind of went from like this person that I thought like, high character to like not so much. And in my head, I'm like, what if I marry this person? And like, mask balls.

Speaker 1:
[35:47] Do you think this is more than him being a guy who said something stupid and didn't realize how it sounded and it was just a bad joke? Because people do do that all the time. Or do you think maybe you've been wrong about him? And again, this answer doesn't change whether you have the right to leave if you're not happy. You know what I'm saying? Like, at the end of the day, if you don't like him and he's not your guy, you can break up. And if there's something telling you he's not your guy, no, that's not crazy. Talking to you for two minutes, there are some like, call it data points. If this doesn't feel right, like that's all you really need. You've dated for nine months before you got engaged, you can acknowledge that like, you've jumped from relationship to relationship. So like, it's harder for you to trust, like your real feelings, like how much of you being in relationship is just like feeling the need to like have someone and be with someone. You choose the best available option at the time, because like you haven't really leaned into like being alone and that discomfort. And now as you get older, you're recognizing maybe that patterning yourself and your subconscious, subconscious brain, whatever, is making you realize that I'm settling a little bit. You maybe never ever had this conversation, but there must be a part of you deep down that says, if I had the guts to be alone and be single and live in that discomfort, I might not be dating him or engaged to him. And I might be holding out for something that feels more special in my mind. Because like, I just feel like if you really loved him and you knew him in nine months isn't a great deal of time, but you can have a pretty good sense of someone's character. I feel like you should know the difference between something that didn't land and something that was like, yo, I don't think you'd realize how that comes across, but I know you're a good guy. So like, just stop, don't ever say that again. The boys say dumb things a lot. And I think us guys don't often put ourselves in the perspectives of how that comes across to women. Doesn't make what he said of that any less weird, but you should know, I think, inside, whether he deserves the benefit of the doubt, or you should look at him differently. And the question you have to ask yourself, is this an excuse to look at him differently? Because deep down, you just don't like him that much.

Speaker 3:
[38:13] Yeah, no, ultimately, I don't think that he's a, like a bad person that said that. I do think that it was supposed to be a joke, and it did not land, maybe.

Speaker 1:
[38:25] But?

Speaker 3:
[38:26] But I think that might just be like me saying that I don't, maybe I don't know who he is, me trying to make an excuse for not liking him.

Speaker 1:
[38:34] Yeah, that's the vibe you're giving, giving me. You don't have a hard time being in a committed relationship. So this is not like, oh, I always do this every time it gets serious.

Speaker 3:
[38:44] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[38:45] So in your most comfortable state, you're feeling uncomfortable, and that's not a good sign for you. It might be a good sign that you are maturing and becoming more self-aware about what you actually need, and now you are learning how to listen to yourself in a way that feels a little uncomfortable.

Speaker 3:
[39:05] That makes sense. So like, what do I do? I don't know how to do that.

Speaker 1:
[39:08] Let's assume the breakup's not so bad. He's like, all right, cool. How would you feel? Does that give you relief? Like, what are you most afraid of? Being alone, breaking his heart or, you know, being wrong?

Speaker 3:
[39:23] Being wrong, making the wrong decision.

Speaker 1:
[39:25] You think there's a chance you could be wrong?

Speaker 3:
[39:27] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[39:27] Oh, okay. Well, that's kind of a big deal. Why do you think there's a chance you could be wrong?

Speaker 3:
[39:32] Because he's very good to me. And he's like, I think he's probably a good person. So like, would it be the wrong decision? I don't want to make the wrong decision, but to tend to do that.

Speaker 1:
[39:44] Does he treat you better than your past boyfriends in a way that almost feels like not as exciting or something? Like, you know, is there a little bit of that element?

Speaker 3:
[39:52] We don't fight ever, which is weird.

Speaker 1:
[39:55] What do you think you should fight about?

Speaker 3:
[39:58] Maybe not so much like fight about it. When we first originally met, he was like, I eventually want kids. And I was like, OK, I'm undecided. I'm leaning more towards no. And I told him that the other day and he said, well, that will be OK. But is that OK? I feel like it's not.

Speaker 1:
[40:17] How old is he?

Speaker 3:
[40:19] 30.

Speaker 1:
[40:20] I don't know. I mean, maybe he doesn't give a shit. I don't know. I mean, I do think the conversation around like having kids and not having kids has gotten kind of weird.

Speaker 3:
[40:30] It's kind of weird how so?

Speaker 1:
[40:32] It's, you know, I'm obviously biased as someone who enjoys being a dad. I strongly believe if you don't want to have kids, no one should try to convince you to have kids. I think society, before people are even considering having kids, is telling you all the reasons why you shouldn't have kids. Expensive, it's difficult, it's hard, it's hard to change your life and blah, blah, blah. You know, and I think 30 years ago, there was this built in like, hey, like expectation of like that part of life is, you know, growing up, falling in love and having a family. And there's definitely exceptions to that rule, but like that was a big part of people's lives and sense of purpose, you know, not all of it, but like that was a big driving force. Like now that I laid out the other night, we're having a conversation, we're like, what the fuck would we do if we didn't have, I mean, it's difficult and it's hard and River takes up all our time. But like, you know, after we've been together for several years now, it's like, well, if we just like, would we just like go to random fucking parties? Like, what would we do at this stage of our relationship of like, I guess maybe travel more, but like, I think we would, just for us, it would lack some purpose. This is not why you called. It's just more, I agree with you that it's like, it should be a big deal. And I do think people should have a strong sense of why they're giving whatever answer they're giving. You know, if you're someone who's like, I used to not want to have kids, but I might be open to it, then fine. I just think there's a lot of people like you two, where you're more a little bit like sure about what you don't want. And he seems to be slightly more on the fence, but neither of you have a strong opinion. And I think that part is weird. I don't know, but that doesn't make me right. It just makes, I just have a strong opinion. I think it's interesting that you think he should have a strong opinion, and maybe you're right about that.

Speaker 3:
[42:23] Well, I feel like if you want kids, then you like want kids.

Speaker 1:
[42:27] Well, I guess my point is, is that I think society, when it comes to people your guys' age, and he's not that young, has made it very, like, it used to be the expectation to have kids. And so if you were on the fence, it was easy to have a I want kids, because you felt supported by society. And I think nowadays, it's become even, like, almost like the minority opinion of people who are, like, I definitely want to have kids. So it could be, I could see a world where maybe deep down he does, but he almost feels weird to say that, and everyone around him says they don't want to have kids, and then here the person he loves or is engaged with wants it, doesn't want to have kids. So he's like, yeah, sure, fuck it, I don't want to have kids. Because there's not enough people around him saying like, listen, man, kids are hard, it will change your life. There's a lot of like, but you will never find a greater purpose. I don't know how many people are saying that to him. And it's like, oh, fuck, yeah, purpose. That's kind of a big deal. It's tough because nowadays, I think being young is hard. I think it's more and more difficult. I think 20 years ago, people in their 20s were graduated from college and they found a job where they could support themselves and a partner and a family. Now that's just not the case economically. Now, you have people enter early adult life in their 20s and society tells them to still be young and still be a kid. Your 20s are your new teenage years. All of a sudden, the years go by and we're like, fuck, I'm 25, I haven't accomplished anything. If you're a guy in his 30s who hasn't found his purpose career-wise, that feels very unsettling. I don't know what I want to do and I guess whatever. And so I do think it's a lot harder to be younger and think about the possibility of having kids because everything around them has changed and there's just a lot less stability. So I empathize with that. It's a challenge. Right now, he could still be searching for that purpose for himself. And I think, again, a lot of people aren't having the conversations that sometimes kids are that purpose. Like I was born not because my parents both had these careers and they were registered a family. It was more like they got married and had kids and then they were poor as fuck. And my mom stayed home, my dad worked, and they just figured it the fuck out, you know? And that's how it used to be. Now it's very different. Now everyone needs a plan for parenthood. Anyway, I don't know if that was anyway helpful at all. Or if you're even welcome, because you didn't ask. But listen, it's interesting that you have a strong point of view about his opinions about not having kids. Once again, you need to ask yourself, is that you just trying to come up with an excuse to not like him? Or does it deep down, the guy you've gotten to know, does it feel like he's not being true to himself? And that bothers you. And that speaks to non-negotiables and wanting different things.

Speaker 3:
[45:22] Yeah, it definitely seemed like the way he talked about it originally is that he really wanted kids. And now it's just like, okay, a little bit.

Speaker 1:
[45:31] I hear you. I do think it's become less weird to be like your fiancé because of the conversations that society has around having kids these days.

Speaker 3:
[45:44] Yeah. But also it could just be me making another excuse or trying to anyway. What we talked about when we talked about the cruise and the conversation on the vacation is that we were going to just take some time to see if we could get back to the way we were before we went on the cruise. Because since then, I don't want to touch him in any way, shape or fashion.

Speaker 1:
[46:13] Okay. So, I mean, it's just like, it kind of just sounds like you don't like him.

Speaker 3:
[46:19] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[46:21] You know, why does it sound bad? You're right not to like him.

Speaker 3:
[46:25] Because I did. Or at least I thought I did. Maybe I did.

Speaker 1:
[46:29] You liked him early on. That's fine. And maybe it was a change of pace. And I don't know, maybe four weeks was too long for you to be single. And it was just like he was the first nice guy to show up. And that just doesn't feel right right now. And it was easier for you to lie to yourself about your feelings towards people than it is now as someone who's more comfortable in her own skin and more emotionally mature. Maybe you're just learning from past mistakes. It could be that. Yeah. I think deep down you know the answer. I can't give the answer. But you can have these million conversations. And there's not gonna be a clear, I can't give you a clear answer. The only one who knows the answer is deep in your gut. And he can be a nice guy and respectful guy. It doesn't mean he's your guy. And the kid's thing aside, the question is, it's like, do you feel like he, you want to know that you have a partner. And being in a committed relationship and having a partnership is like not be at each other's throats, but like knowing that like they can stand up to you. And that like, if they don't agree with you, that you will hear that point of view so that you can work through it. And maybe that includes a disagreement or two here or there. But you want to feel like you have a partner and you don't want to feel like you can kind of get away with anything. Because even though sometimes that's fun in the short run, we want that kind of equality in a relationship. So maybe it's that. Like, listen, I guess what I'm saying is, it's not bad, you didn't do anything wrong. It's not a crime to want to end an engagement. It's definitely a tough conversation. It's uncomfortable. But you're not crazy for realizing you don't like someone. So you don't need to come up with excuses to why it's okay for you to end this relationship if that's what you're trying to do. You're not going to be a bad guy. You're not a total bitch. He might be upset with you. He might say things that sound harsh and hasty. But listen, you're going to hurt his feelings and that's okay. But you don't need to explain it to the world. And no one's, you know what I'm saying? You didn't do anything wrong. As someone who's been engaged before and it didn't work out, no one likes to have been like, I used to be engaged, but no one gives a shit. And it's honestly not that uncommon anymore. So in terms of feeling like you have a scarlet letter or a label or you have to explain it, no one cares. And that's certainly not a reason to be in a relationship. So just decide what you want. There's no wrong answer. You don't need to come up with a justification.

Speaker 3:
[49:12] Yeah, no, I think I do know the answer.

Speaker 1:
[49:15] Well, I would rip off the band-aid as soon as possible.

Speaker 3:
[49:21] Oh my goodness, okay.

Speaker 1:
[49:22] And when you do it, you can be direct, but be kind. You don't need to make them feel like a creep. I wouldn't bring up some of these excuses. I would just be like, listen, I just don't see it. I don't see it. And if you want to, I don't think it's going to be productive, me saying a bunch of things that I think, but at the end of the day, I don't see it, and I don't feel it, and I don't think this is what I want.

Speaker 3:
[49:51] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[49:54] It's tough, but you'll be okay, you'll be all right. You can get through it.

Speaker 3:
[49:59] Yeah. Maybe so.

Speaker 1:
[50:01] No, definitely. You can definitely get through it. Sounds like you'll be free. This is a weight on your shoulder. You're not supposed to feel this way when you're engaged.

Speaker 3:
[50:10] Yeah. No, you're not, probably.

Speaker 1:
[50:14] It's weighing on you. It's sucking up your energy. And I understand the breakup sounds scary, but honestly, it's not going to be as hard as you're telling yourself it is, and you'll be fine.

Speaker 4:
[50:25] Okay. All right.

Speaker 3:
[50:27] All right.

Speaker 1:
[50:27] Good luck.

Speaker 3:
[50:29] Thanks.

Speaker 1:
[50:30] You're not even wearing your ring.

Speaker 3:
[50:32] No, I'm not.

Speaker 1:
[50:36] Yeah, like, just shut it down.

Speaker 3:
[50:38] To be fair, I don't wear it most of the time. I only wear it when I go out.

Speaker 1:
[50:42] It's because you hate them and you don't want to make them feel bad.

Speaker 4:
[50:46] I'm just kidding.

Speaker 1:
[50:46] I mean, I'm not kidding. But like, I think, you know, I just, yeah, listen, like, you're just, you're not doing him any favors by convincing yourself he's worse of a person than he actually is. He's just not your guy.

Speaker 3:
[50:58] Gotcha.

Speaker 4:
[50:59] All right.

Speaker 3:
[51:00] All right.

Speaker 1:
[51:01] Good luck out there.

Speaker 3:
[51:03] Thanks.

Speaker 1:
[51:03] All right.

Speaker 3:
[51:04] Congrats on the girls.

Speaker 1:
[51:05] I appreciate you. Keep us posted on how this breakup goes. I'd love to hear it.

Speaker 3:
[51:10] For sure.

Speaker 1:
[51:11] All right.

Speaker 3:
[51:12] Thank you.

Speaker 1:
[51:13] All right, bye-bye. How's it going?

Speaker 3:
[51:16] Hi.

Speaker 4:
[51:18] My name is Paige. I'm 22 and I'm questioning whether my work ethic is ruining my relationship with my clingy boyfriend.

Speaker 1:
[51:24] Okay. Tell me more about it.

Speaker 4:
[51:26] Okay. I guess I'll start how we started dating. I'm from California and right after high school, I moved to Oregon for college and moved there alone, like was super ready to get out. I've always been super independent. So did that and went through sorority recruitment. So met a bunch of my friends that way. My boyfriend was in a fraternity there as well. So we were in the kind of brand in the same crowd, but not really like super friendly with each other yet. Fast forward to senior year, I had gone to Ireland for study abroad in my junior year, and he had gone to Spain, and I went alone. He went with a bunch of friends and he's from Oregon. So that was kind of the craziest thing he had ever done because he was like an hour away from home, the whole time he was in college, and then when he went to Spain, he was with all of his buddies. So it was like independent, but not super, super. So senior year, we get back to school, we start dating, and then it got pretty serious. My sister lived in Nashville, and I didn't have a place that I specifically wanted to be after college and so I was like, screw it, I'll just move. That was my whole plan throughout the year. So towards the end of the year, we're talking about if we're going to keep dating after college and all of that. I really loved his family, loved him, was super invested. He was like, I think I want to come to Nashville with you. I was like, that would be great, but I've always been terrified of that pressure of, I don't want you to move here for me. I never want to feel like I have that much responsibility on myself, I guess I'm a little bit afraid of that, in terms of commitment, like the last time I had a boyfriend was in high school, all throughout college, I was like, don't want it, want to experience my own life. I made that very clear when we moved, like you are not moving here for me, like I would love for you to come, but it needs to be like because you want that. I moved here in July, he moves out here in September. He had an internship over the summer, so stayed in Oregon. I was living with my sister at the time before I moved into our apartment in September. Having a great time, loved it, moved here to have a job in the mental health field. I was a case manager in a mental health cooperative. It was really heavy, wasn't really happy with my nine to five, but was going through it, all of that stuff. Then he moved out here, continue with that. I decided to leave the job, kind of right as he moved in. It was an interesting transition for me when he moved in. He was unemployed for about the first three months that we were here, which at first I was like, oh, it's fine. He was looking for a job in supply chain logistics. That can't be that hard to find. He was searching for jobs. But over time, I realized he wasn't really looking for jobs at all. He was just hanging out on the couch every day while I went to work. I decided to leave the nine to five. I've always been like, I'm never going to leave something without having a plan. Got a job as a hostess, love it. Then I get a second job at a infrared sauna, cold sponge studio, so do that also. I'm working those two jobs, loving it though because I'm getting to meet people that are actually my own age. Honestly, that was the best thing for me. I'm making way less money but couldn't have been happier with my social situation.

Speaker 1:
[54:45] Meanwhile, he's couch surfing and saying he can't find a job.

Speaker 4:
[54:49] Yes. At first, I was like, well, it's the first time he's away from home. He's never really been this far away from his parents or his friends. All of his friends, he has his birth.

Speaker 1:
[55:02] What does that have to do with that?

Speaker 4:
[55:06] I don't know. I feel like maybe he just needs time to settle and get comfortable. He was like, I just want to see Nashville. I just want to get to know the area before I get sucked into a job and can never see anything. I was like, okay, fair.

Speaker 1:
[55:22] Sounds like, I'm guessing even despite having two jobs, you get to explore Nashville and meet people and have a life. There are 24 hours in a day. Yeah. And even if you work 10 hours a day, there are still 14 hours. I assume that you sleep free, you get a good night of sleep of eight. Still a couple of hours to, and he has no job, so how much money does he have to go explore? But that's a couple of hours a day. He could get out of the house. Anyway, continue.

Speaker 4:
[55:56] Well, to your point, though, he also never had a job, a consistent job throughout college. I was always employed all throughout college because my parents were like, we'll help you with your school, but all the extra stuff.

Speaker 1:
[56:07] Does his parents have money?

Speaker 4:
[56:10] They have a decent amount of money. They don't live super lavishly, but they love vacations, big things like that, so they like to spend.

Speaker 1:
[56:19] And they can afford to support him, it sounds like.

Speaker 4:
[56:23] Yes. Yes, so he would have some little summer jobs, but he never had, I don't know, he never had a crazy work ethic, I guess is my point. And I grew up with a dad that worked his ass off. And so I think it's kind of unattractive to me when I don't see that kind of drive in my partner.

Speaker 1:
[56:42] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[56:44] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[56:45] Sounds like giving you the egg.

Speaker 4:
[56:47] A little bit, yeah. So I'm working those two jobs. He finally gets a job, actually my coworker had said like, oh my gosh, he's in supply chain, like tell him to look into this company. He does, goes to the interview process, they're going through a couple of interview processes. And at that point, it was kind of bizarre. Like he would like go through and be like, yeah, but I'm not really interested. And be like, why not? And he's, it was, That's crazy. He has this confidence.

Speaker 1:
[57:15] That's crazy.

Speaker 4:
[57:15] Yeah, yeah. So he had this like confidence, it almost like, I know that I can get a better job than that, did all this stuff. Cause his dad's in sales.

Speaker 1:
[57:23] Okay.

Speaker 4:
[57:24] And he takes him through, like he's a very confident person. And he kind of takes off. Yes. And his dad, they're very similar. And so I think that because of like all the people and men that he's been around, he has like this confidence without having the kind of pedigree to back it. Like he just hasn't done, like you haven't done anything that your dad's done. Like, cause his dad is a hard worker. So that always kind of bothered me. And then he's going through these interview processes and is like, I think that I can do better. And I'm like, but you don't have any like history that you have done. So like-

Speaker 1:
[57:56] Well, first of all, first of all, like, okay. So here's where I think you could tweak your messaging to him if that's what you want to do. He also just might not be your guy. It's like what he's missing is like, I don't, maybe if he keeps waiting, he could find something that he deems better. I mean, that's not impossible, right? The question is, how long is that going to take him? And then what experience could he be getting now, whether it's like a hosting job or something in supply chain? Even he wants to do sales. Like there's experiences he can learn. He can learn how to be in a corporate environment. He can learn things that he thinks he is beneath him. And what he's missing out on right now is just like getting experience and getting work. And there's a lot of people who enter the workforce and their first job is not what they hope or expected. And then they, a lot of times within your first year, I hated my first job. I left it after nine months and it was like kind of scary. I'm like, I'm not gonna move my resume and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But like, I got good experience. I also learned what I didn't want to fucking do, you know? And he is not getting that experience in the pursuit of something better. I found something better. I mean, at least I tried. It took me a couple times, but he is not learning about what he actually likes and not likes. He is assuming what he likes and doesn't like and then deciding what's better or not. And he has no fucking clue what he actually likes. I mean, he's never really worked in this space and he has a deluded and delusional kind of perspective of what it likes to be in the workforce. So, when he says, it's not about debating and arguing with him whether he's gonna find something better because you're kind of daring him to prove you wrong. But what is undeniable is that he is missing out on some really good experiences and an opportunity to A, make money. And if I were you, I would definitely call him out on, like listen, how old is he?

Speaker 4:
[60:05] 23.

Speaker 1:
[60:06] You're 23 and your parents support you. That's kind of an itch. It's an itch. And like the fact that you don't want to do something about it, and you don't want to like get a job, whether it's being a host or waiting tables, or picking up fucking garbage or whatever it is, I would be honestly more into that because like you're earning that, and it's a work ethic thing, and you're comfortable taking your parents harder and money so you can be lazy. And that's an Ick. And if that doesn't bother you, maybe you're not my person. I mean, like you just, you know, listen, that's one of those things where you don't want to baby your boyfriend, you don't want to parent your boyfriend, but the fact that you are avoiding some of these direct conversations and like you can do it in a way that's direct and not necessarily harsh, you know, but like it is the truth. And sometimes these boys need to hear some direct feedback for them to become men. And you need to find out real fast whether he's even capable of doing it. Don't marry the loser, you know, like it's, you know, I'm guessing what feels a little uncomfortable for you is like, it's a mindset thing. And I think your instincts are right. I mean, I joke with my employees that like, I've never seen any of their resumes, you know, there's that other people in my on my team do. But by the time I meet them, I don't give a shit. And some of the best hires I've made, it's because they like told me they in between college and their quote unquote real job, they worked at Trader Joe's or they worked as a barista at Starbucks and they were in the fire. And it was a shitty job. But like they they were willing to do that to make ends meet. And to me, that has been some of the best indicators about someone's work ethic and their talents as an employee. And I think the same, I think you can apply the same principles that like, you know you're a go-getter, you're a hard worker. And being a hard worker, you have respect for what you've accomplished and you're proud of it as you should be. And it's hard to be in love with someone or have a committed relationship when you kind of like don't respect their grind or lack thereof. And then the obvious question is like, if I marry this person, am I always going to have to be their fucking cheerleader? Am I always going to have to motivate them? What happens when you have kids? How helpful are they going to be? You want someone who's willing to raise their hand and say, how can I help?

Speaker 4:
[62:32] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[62:33] And he doesn't sound like that kind of guy.

Speaker 2:
[62:36] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[62:37] And like, I feel like I'm like ragging on him through all this and I'm not trying to. Like he's a good, he obviously has good traits.

Speaker 1:
[62:43] I'm sorry as well. I'm charming in the life of the, yeah. Like this is not about, he's popular and cool or whatever. And he might be capable of growing up. My point is, is if you want to stay in this relationship, if it's, and you're like, you're only 22. So then you, you know, make sure you ask yourself, what are my relationship goals? You know, your goals can change, but like as a motivated 22 year old who likes to work and wants to prioritize, you know, I don't know, maybe like marriage and kids is like, isn't on the table for the next five or six years. And at the end of the day, maybe, what's the point of still investing in something where it's just like, you know, even if I marry him, you're not going to be forever. I don't know. Those are fair questions to ask yourself. In the meantime, while you are with him, it's important that you figure out whether he has the ability to like check himself, make some moves, hear your feedback and want to prove to himself into you that he can grind, he can do the uncomfortable things. Because life is not comfortable, and we don't always have mommy and daddy to take care of us.

Speaker 4:
[63:49] Yeah. When he moved out and moved here, they're not helping him anymore, but he did get a job at a supply chain logistics place, Works 9-5. But for example, there's things that I think it starts with work ethic and all that, and then it's just like you pile on after a while. And like I set up the internet, insurance, I pay for all of those bills, he bemo's me for them. Like I just, we split it 50-50, but like I've just set everything up. I found the apartment, like, and he's like, whatever you need, I'll help you out. But like-

Speaker 1:
[64:23] What's his thing? What's his thing?

Speaker 4:
[64:26] He helps with the cat. Like literally he helps with the cat. Like he'll, I don't take out the litter, he does that.

Speaker 1:
[64:31] And you don't have to ask him.

Speaker 4:
[64:33] No, I don't have to ask him.

Speaker 1:
[64:34] So his thing is the cat. That's it?

Speaker 4:
[64:37] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[64:38] That's his only thing?

Speaker 4:
[64:40] Yeah, like he's like handy. He helps out with like stuff around the house. But like, I don't know, a big point of contention in our relationship more recently is just like the amount of hours I've been working. And now I am transitioning from that host's position to a full-time cocktail server. And so I'm starting a new job. And I was kind of between staying at the restaurant and moving to a server there or starting this new job. I was kind of being pulled in both directions. And when I asked what he thought I should do, he was like, well, when will you be home more? Like which job? And I'm like, that is so not what I needed to hear. Like, because he just wants me to be home more. Like that's like all. Like he just, and I'm like, dude, like I want to need a big money, but also like he just hates that I work so much in like the days that I have off. Like I've been-

Speaker 1:
[65:29] His sense of urgency is this different than yours. There's clearly, there's something about, you know, I didn't grow up with a lot of money. I mean, I had a great childhood, but like, you know, I grew up with a scarcity mindset, you know, I grew up with how my parents, you know, they had a fear of constantly, how are we going to make ends meet? And I think, I don't know what your childhood was like, but for me, I like, you know, things I, you know, we'll have to work on or whatever. But like, I honestly, I would take that over the alternative because that has allowed me to grind and have some urgency and not take things for granted. And it sounds like, you know, your boyfriend has a default of like, listen, the other day, I'm going to be okay. You know, because like it's, he's always been okay. And he's never really been like in a position where he's wondered like, are we going to be okay? And it's always worked out for him. And that's hard to change, you know, but I guess what I'm saying is if you're young, so like, you just don't, I don't think you need, you don't need to break up with this guy. Like you don't need to be hasty. I do think you need to not feel bad about how you feel about the situation and not apologize for prioritizing yourself and your career and be willing to check him a little bit and challenge him and see how he responds. Is he up for the challenge?

Speaker 4:
[66:59] So we had our first conversation about like all of this, because I've been saying this for a long time and my sister actually helped me out because she, him and her don't really like each other. So my sister lives in Nashville and she's basically like, he gets to see you all the time. Like I never actually get to hang out with you because your day's off, you're always with him. And he's like the same with her. Like your day's off, like, like don't hang out with her. Like hang out with me. So it's always an issue with them. But I was like telling her, I'll be singing, vocalizing it. And she's like, just talk to him. Because my final straw, like this past week was, I got home from work one night, had a really long day. He was like, do you want to go to the movies? Because he's been reading the new Hail Mary book. And he wanted to go see it. And I was like, oh yeah, but maybe not tonight, like maybe tomorrow. He's like, okay, cool. So the next day I'm at work. I get a Venmo request for half of the movie ticket. And I was like, I can't, because we have been having an issue with Venmo requests before. I split the bill, everything split. It's always a Venmo request. It's so annoying. So that was my final straw. I was like, I can't. And so I declined it. And yeah, I have a screenshot of the text. It was basically he texted and said, why did you decline my Venmo request? And I was like, because you asked me to go into the movies last night, like, blah, blah, blah, like, I don't want to pay. And he was like, here's his response was, that's how it's always been. Like, when has it not been like that?

Speaker 1:
[68:27] And I was like, starting today.

Speaker 4:
[68:30] No. Yeah. So I was just basically like, no, it has. But I hate it.

Speaker 3:
[68:34] And that's all I said.

Speaker 4:
[68:35] And so I was just very prepared to have a conversation when we got home. So we had a conversation and I noted some of like his points and my points because I want to tell my sister this stuff because I was like, and I need to remember this because I can very easily be swayed when people make me feel bad. So I'm like, remember the conversation.

Speaker 1:
[68:53] I love that you took notes of your argument.

Speaker 4:
[68:56] Yeah. So a lot of the things that he was saying was that like, that one main point for me was like, I told you not to move here for me. Like this wasn't for me. Like you're supposed to move here because this is a new start for you too.

Speaker 1:
[69:08] Did he bring that up? Why did you feel the need to bring that up?

Speaker 4:
[69:12] Because we had been going back and forth with like money and things like that. And I think he just made a point of like, we were supposed to move here and like spend time together. And like we never see each other. And I was just kind of like, I told you not to move here for me. I told you to move here for like, just because this worked for both of us and like all these things. And he was like, I moved here for us.

Speaker 1:
[69:35] But, but that's bullshit. Couple of things. One, I think you could strengthen your argument by, it's not about the moving. But I do think you can call them out on the, what I moved here for us. I'm like, that's, you trying to be romantic isn't going to change my mind. The point is, you, like, I made this clear because I never wanted you to be able to throw it in my face that where you live is, you know, you don't get to use that as a reason for you being unhappy and, and expecting more of me. You can expect more from me because, you know, there's things in our relationship. But like, what I'm hearing is, I have no friends. I have nothing better to do, so I expect you to hang out with me. Second of all, this is not about you. It's about making a life for himself outside of this relationship where it sounds like he's chosen not to do.

Speaker 4:
[70:25] He has hang out with friends at work more recently and like he's having fun with that. So I'm really actually very happy for him. But the thing that sucks is that like, for like, I feel bad because when he leaves, I'm so happy if I know that I'm coming home from work and no one's going to be at our apartment. And like that's been like my more recent like epiphany like, oh shit, I probably shouldn't be in a relationship because like.

Speaker 1:
[70:48] Maybe it's a relationship or maybe like at 22 years old, you shouldn't be living with this guy. You know, there is that. Like you can be in a relationship and take it slow and get to know each other. And again, like the challenge is like, you know, 30 years ago being 22 and in love made a lot of sense and people settled down and had kids. That's just not how a lot of people are rolling these days. So nowadays it's like you're 22 and you're like, I don't know, you know, 20, late, later, mid to late 20s, maybe I want to like get married and have kids. So like that's five years of potentially dating someone that isn't going to have a ton of progress, especially if you choose to like move really fast in the beginning, which is to say, to move into with each other and play house and like moving in with in a relationship sooner than it needs to happen is going to create these feelings like you're feeling now, which might tell you, which might give you incomplete information. Again, there's a lot of things going on with your relationship. But if everything else was great, right? Yeah. Maybe he wasn't like this kind of lazy giving a loser a little bit on being harsh. But if all you are feeling like is like, oh my God, he's just, oh, he's there. Could just mean that you're just not ready to live with someone. That in your independence, still young, I moved to a new city, I got my sister, and you want to have a little bit of both. It could just mean that. And he could be a guy who, again, if other things were equal, and was also as equally as motivated as you were with work, and prioritize having friends. Now, that could present other challenges. That could present challenges of you guys feeling like, hey, let's just make sure we're still coming back to each other, and I'm glad you're making friends, and I'm making friends. But that can create problems, and distractions, and temptations, and things like that. So there's no path that doesn't take work in a relationship. But at least that path would be more in line with the lifestyle you want. You're living a path right now where he's just there. He's just comfortable with existing. And again, what are your relationship plans? I mean, you live with this guy.

Speaker 4:
[73:07] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[73:08] So what do you guys want for each other?

Speaker 4:
[73:12] Well, when we were still in college, I was so like, I can totally marry this dude. I love his family, really love him. We're so good.

Speaker 1:
[73:21] What if you don't wanna get married to your 30?

Speaker 4:
[73:24] Well, so that's how I am. That's the thing. So I've always been super independent, and I'm like, I don't wanna have kids until I've done all the shit that I wanna do. Like his parents got married super young. His mom's like, she's sweet, but she's just like a housewife. So she doesn't, which is being a mom is a full-time job, very hard, but she doesn't have her own like things going on. So she'd always been super involved in her kids' lives, which is great. But sometimes it gets to a certain extent where it's a little bit helicopter parent, and she's like that with us.

Speaker 1:
[73:53] I would say unsolicited feedback. Yeah, you're only 22, so go live your life, have fun. I don't think having kids has to end that. Natalie wasn't the host of a Netflix show before she had kids. Now she is. Again, it does change things. No doubt it is harder. There are a shit ton of sacrifices you have to make. Just make no mistake about that, but it is not, you know.

Speaker 4:
[74:25] Yeah, I guess to rephrase, I am not ready to not be selfish, is like my thing. I want to be selfish for as long as possible because I like what I got going on, but yeah. But my big issue is now I'm just in a weird spot where we had this big, long talk. He was crying a lot and-

Speaker 1:
[74:47] He was crying.

Speaker 4:
[74:49] Yeah, he cried a lot. And he just like, he just was basically expressing, well, he was expressing that he just like, doesn't feel wanted by me. And like, I never want to be home. And I'm always like at the gym or like grocery shopping or like running my errands, like doing my meal prep, whatever it be. And like, I don't give him enough attention. And like, when I get home from work, I'm just tired and I've been working for nine hours. I'm just like, I just want to eat and go to sleep. And I get home and give him a kiss, but like, he wants me to like lay on the bed with him for like 15 minutes and just like sit there. And I'm like, I'm hungry, I'm uncomfortable, I want to go to bed. And so that's been kind of a point of contention. And we just, honestly, we aren't really having sex anymore either, cause I'm just not interested. And so he just doesn't feel wanted. And so he was crying a lot about that, but I just like wasn't emotional. And then the only time that I did get emotional was when I was saying, I just don't know if I could be the partner that you need. Where I'm at right now in my life, I just don't know if I can give you as much attention as you need. And I like you deserve someone that can do that. And I just don't know if I could do that. And then I asked him if he's happy with our situation, and thinks that we can work on it, or if he kind of thinks that he would be happier if he was single, because I'm obviously causing him a lot of hurt. And his response was, I think that you would be happy to single.

Speaker 1:
[76:15] Is he right?

Speaker 4:
[76:17] After the fact, I think so. But I didn't say that. And I probably should have said it in different words, because I feel like I wasn't being completely honest, but I was just like, no, I wouldn't necessarily be happy or single. They're just like, I'm just so busy right now.

Speaker 1:
[76:32] You can still say it. And it takes sometimes, sometimes it takes time to process and think about your feelings. Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[76:41] I don't know where to go from here.

Speaker 1:
[76:43] Maybe nowhere. Maybe it is an end. But again, this is a compatibility situation. This is not, you know, you and I can have opinions about what we think he should do or what we think he's not doing. You know, there's some even potential love languages. Maybe he really likes physical touch, and that's not your favorite love language. But also, like again, there's a level of he would be less needy and he would be feeling less invalidated by you or the quality of time you're not spending if he had more of a purpose and drive and needing to prove to himself, like what, you know, what's his drive? Like what, it's the part that he's so comfortable with hanging out and not having a job. It's just like kind of your first couple of jobs is not supposed to be your dream job. You're not supposed to pick your first couple jobs almost because you think you're worthy of it or it's like you're paying, you know, that's about experience. It's about learning what you like and don't like so that you can hopefully obtain your dream job. I, you know, maybe you want to be a waitress your entire career, probably not, right? But you're getting more sales experience than he's getting, you know, like you're interacting with people, you're learning skills, skills that you might not even realize just by working, you're doing it. What skill is he learning by sitting home? When we say we want to partner, right? So what does that mean? Partnership. It's like I had a teammate, someone to do, you know, what are all the cliches we say when we talk, you know, our vows or what all that. I want to do life together with you. Well, okay, well, it's a cliche, but there's some like, we mean that, but we have to apply it. Like, he just wants you to be around to have quality, and that's nice, quality time's important for especially a lot of people. But like, what are you doing together as a team? What are you driving for? If you felt like his efforts and energy matched yours and he showed up and it doesn't always have to be the same, you know, like at the end of the day, you both have to feel like you're contributing. Natalie and I feel like, for the most part, feel like we are contributing to the life that we've chosen to have as parents, as coworkers, as homeowners. You know, we both have to show up. When that doesn't always happen, there might be a conversation. But for the most part, I feel like she's committed to this lifestyle as much as I am and we both want it and we are both willing to put in the work. And that's, I think, the part you guys are struggling with is what is that thing you guys are working towards? Right now, it's like you have a lot of other things you want to accomplish and you can like him and love him that doesn't take away from the things that you want to accomplish. And it probably feels like he is taking away from that because instead of also being busy and productive, he's like, you work too much. And you're like, yo, bro, first of all, I need to make money. Second of all, I'm only 22. I mean, how much time do you want to fucking spend together?

Speaker 4:
[79:55] Yeah, I hear you on all of those. And I guess I'm freaking out a little bit in my head. I can go on kind of the same way that we have been, but we have six more months on our lease.

Speaker 1:
[80:06] Well, what else are in those notes? You had a page of notes. What else did you say to them?

Speaker 4:
[80:10] Oh, I said, I miss missing you. I was telling him that I recharge alone. Like when my battery is low, I need some time. And then I'm fully ready to be all in together. But sometimes I just need some separation. Like my mom's like that.

Speaker 1:
[80:25] Like half the population is like that. Yeah. It's an introverted quality.

Speaker 4:
[80:30] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[80:31] So you probably have some introverted qualities. You know, you're not alone in that.

Speaker 4:
[80:36] He was saying that I'm so focused on myself and what I need and never what he needs. And then I never go out of my way to like buy anything for him or do anything for him. When I picked him up at the airport like a week ago.

Speaker 1:
[80:48] Why do you gotta buy him shit?

Speaker 4:
[80:50] Because we're talking about money and like I was like, we don't have to like do lavish things, but like I'd appreciate if I didn't have to like split the bill with you every time we go to dinner. Like it's just like chivalrous things I kind of miss in our relationship. And he was like hated that the other day I, I was dog sitting for my sister. So I had two dogs on my lap in the car and went to go pick him up from the airport and I didn't get out and kiss him. And he was like really bothered by that.

Speaker 1:
[81:16] He sounds like the woman in the relationship.

Speaker 4:
[81:19] He kind of is. But I've also, I know that I have certain tendencies that like are a little bit.

Speaker 1:
[81:24] That's also not meant to be a dig on women. I don't know. He just like is like, you know, it's like he likes the gifts and he wants to be wined and dined and he wants to be valid. I don't like, I don't know.

Speaker 4:
[81:35] He wants to know how long I'll be like doing this much work and like what my plan is with it. He was like, how long are you going to be doing this?

Speaker 3:
[81:40] Because like I, I hate it.

Speaker 1:
[81:42] Well, first of all, until I don't have to do it or someone else can contribute to supporting a shared lifestyle. And someday, do you want kids someday?

Speaker 4:
[81:56] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[81:56] So someday I want kids, that's going to, I don't know, when are you going to, when are you going to grow up? I don't know, like I take care of us and you help with the cat. Like my daughter is going to when she's old enough to do chores.

Speaker 4:
[82:15] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[82:16] You know, it sounds like you're dating someone who's probably a little spoiled. And listen, I definitely hear the older guys, like the younger generation is a little softer. And Jen Z brings a lot to the table that millennials don't, you know. But it's like society is breeding two different types of men. The really empathetic, you know, understands the plight of women, soft, boyish, maybe kind of a loser energy, or this like toxic red pill agro-masculine has all the wrong role models. But they are motivated and they do the grind. It's just like, you can be a good guy and you can still be chivalrous and you can still want to be the king of your castle without being kind of a misogynistic dick. You know what I'm saying? There is a middle ground, but it does feel like in today's society, we're, you know, it's just an everything. We're lacking the middle ground. Anyway, I digress. He might not be your guy. You're not wrong for wanting more from him. I think it's okay that you challenge him and you can do it without emasculating him, but you could just be like, listen, man, I'm an ambitious person and that's not going to change. And I think you should expect more of yourself. And if we continue to be in a relationship, I wanna feel like you're meeting me halfway. Yes, quality time is important, but it should bother you that you have to split a movie thing with me. It's like, yo, you know? And if it's a money thing, you spend a lot of time at home doing nothing. And I have two jobs, you know?

Speaker 4:
[84:06] He has a job, so he does work the nine to five.

Speaker 1:
[84:09] But you have two, you know? And I'm just simply saying that your point is, I'm young, I got a lot of time on my hands, and you still have free time to go out. If he is your guy, he has to be open to getting some direct feedback from you that doesn't make him feel threatened or emasculated or resentful towards you needing more from him.

Speaker 4:
[84:30] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[84:31] It's great that he's empathetic, it's great that he's gentle and kind and lovable and in touch with his emotions, but man, the fuck up.

Speaker 4:
[84:39] Well, that's what makes it so hard to have conversations with him too, because I don't want to hurt him all the time. And I know that that's something that I need to work on, just being more honest and having the hard conversations.

Speaker 1:
[84:49] Doesn't mean, him being hurt by hearing how you feel doesn't make you the bad guy. And that might mean you're incompatible, but if you are constantly hurting your feelings simply because you are speaking your truth or communicating your expectations of what you need in a relationship doesn't make you the dick. But just because his expectations are of the more romantic nature, it's like, well, all I want to do is to spend time with my girl. Like, okay, fine, but that doesn't.

Speaker 4:
[85:20] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[85:20] And if you were filming a reality TV show that would land really well. But in reality, I want a partner who's going to show up in more than just ways of wanting to spend time with me or taking care of our cat. And I want to know you can do the hard things. And I want to know you can grind.

Speaker 4:
[85:37] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[85:38] He just doesn't want to have anything better to do than to hang out with you. And that's like not as romantic as it sounds or he wants to believe it sounds.

Speaker 4:
[85:47] Yeah, it's really nice in my head. I'm like, oh, he cares about me so much and I should be grateful. But it's not attractive a lot of the time because I'm just like, I can't breathe.

Speaker 1:
[85:56] What you can't do is accept this as normal and silence your feelings about this. And he's like, but he makes me laugh and he's a nice guy, so I should marry him.

Speaker 4:
[86:06] Yeah. I needed this. I needed someone just to tell me that. Okay.

Speaker 1:
[86:14] And he has every opportunity to not be a loser. It's not that hard, you know?

Speaker 4:
[86:18] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[86:20] You just want to see a little fucking ambition. You would probably be so turned on if he was like, yeah, I got a second job. You know, it's just like, I'm. Is he at least like in great shit? I mean, what is he doing with his free time? Is he like excelling in anything in his life?

Speaker 4:
[86:35] No, he's I have I've always been pretty active. I've competed in bodybuilding competitions when I was in high school. So like since then, I am on five days a week. I go to the gym like that does not change. I will not cancel my gym plans for anything. That also bothers him sometimes because he's like, can we just hang out? Why are you going to work out? But he doesn't work out and he'll say like, oh, I want to work out. I'm going to start working out.

Speaker 1:
[86:58] What does he do?

Speaker 4:
[86:59] Two days and then stop. He sometimes plays video games. He'll just come home or go to a record store. He likes his records, but honestly, not much on weekends. Like I'll go out with his work buddies, go drink.

Speaker 1:
[87:15] Is he your age?

Speaker 4:
[87:16] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[87:18] I mean, yeah, he's...

Speaker 4:
[87:21] Yeah, he doesn't have any passions. He doesn't... No.

Speaker 1:
[87:26] He just had... I mean, it's... Listen, I don't know how many passions I had as 22. I had a passion to try to be great or do something I could be proud of. And that should be enough. He doesn't have that. He is just comfortable with being average. And that's okay for some people. It's definitely not okay for you.

Speaker 4:
[87:46] I don't want to just dig this.

Speaker 1:
[87:48] If you want to be with him, you have to gently and honestly set your expectations and challenge him. But it's like, I don't want to force you to want the same things for me. I don't want to make you feel less than because I have these expectations of myself.

Speaker 4:
[88:06] Right.

Speaker 1:
[88:08] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[88:09] I'm in a tough spot. It's really hard when you know that they're probably just not for you and you're probably just not compatible, but he doesn't do anything wrong. So it's like, I wish that he would do something wrong. So it would just be easier to break up with him sometimes.

Speaker 1:
[88:26] What do you mean wrong? Of course he's doing something wrong.

Speaker 4:
[88:28] Like, I don't know. Like nothing feels like legitimate to actually break up with him, I guess.

Speaker 1:
[88:34] It doesn't make any sense. He doesn't have to rob a bank for you to justify breaking up with him. You could just like not be your guy and you can be incompatible. And again, like you will just feel in your gut. Like I'm not like Natalie. It's not like Natalie is like the same gung ho person that I was. But when I met her, she was finishing up school. She was also bartending. She was like she would bartend all night and then wake up at five in the morning and do clinicals for me because she's a surgical technologist and she would work at the hospital. And then she would go to fucking school because she just had to fucking do it. And then she doesn't do some of that stuff anymore because she doesn't have to. But even just in our relationship, I don't know, she just does things that are helpful to me. She makes our house feel like a home. That's a lot. It's kind of embarrassing that I was in my mid 30s and you could come to my house and be like, I don't know if this guy's in college or if he's an adult. Because I had nice things, but it doesn't have the finishing touches. As a mom, I think I'm an amazing dad and I'm very present in childcare, but she does a lot of the little, and it's not because I ask her. There's just so many examples I have of Natalie just doing her part and showing up and being my partner. And it would just, it's not like I've thought about this. I wasn't like, oh, it's just like, I just felt it. I didn't feel what you feel, which is that disconnecting of what the fuck do you do? Like where it's just like, God, you know? And the fact that he's not doing anything. And then simultaneously still, and again, Natalie is the less introverted version of me. Quality time is really important to her. And like we spent a lot of time together and she's also bringing so much more than a table that like it's not, you know, he, that's all he wants from you. Yeah. And he's complaining about that while not making your life easier in any other way. That's kind of the thing, you know, it's just like, you know, he's not an employee, but like whoever, whether it's an employee or a partner, the people you have the, like other than family, right? Family, it's just like, I don't know, you're my parent. You're my brother and sister. You're my family. Can't do anything about it. I don't even really like you, but I love you. And you're my family. And I'll see you at Christmas if nothing else, you know? But the people you choose to be with you in your life, the people that like it's an option, whether it's friends, whether it's romantic interest. At the end of the day, they have to make your life easier and better, you know, right? Like there's going to be challenges, but like every day, like it's to be like, yeah, I know why you're, I know why I choose you. And you're at this crossroad of like, now you're a lot of fucking work, you know? And it's like-

Speaker 4:
[91:13] And I tell you something else, you just reminded me something.

Speaker 1:
[91:15] Sure.

Speaker 4:
[91:16] Okay. So the other day, my sister and her boyfriend are also having issues. And in the middle of the night, so I got home from work and the next day, it was Saturday, I was supposed to be off, so my boyfriend and I were going to go do stuff that day. It's the middle of the night, I get a call from my sister, sounds like someone's dying. I was like, oh my God, what happened? Her and her boyfriend had a really big fight. She's like, I think we're going to break up, I need you to come over. I was like, I'm on my way. So get up, get clothes on, run out of the house. It's like, where are you going? I was like, I'm going to my sister, I'll see you tomorrow. And so then I drive over to her house and spend the night with her. We had to have a whole night, come back the next day, like probably like noon. And he was so distraught and upset with me because he was like, I get that you had to be there for her, but what did they even fight about? And also we were supposed to have a whole day and now it's kind of ruined and I'm not necessarily mad at you. It just sucks.

Speaker 1:
[92:08] Did you have any specific plans?

Speaker 4:
[92:10] We were supposed to go to like literally Nordstrom Rack and maybe go get some coffee. And he was just like, I did nothing today. And we were supposed to do all these things. And I was just like, you could have gone to go do stuff. Like, I'm sorry, like life happens. But like it's that stuff.

Speaker 1:
[92:26] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[92:26] I was just like, oh my God.

Speaker 1:
[92:28] I think he's not your guy, honestly. I mean, it's hard to imagine he's going to make some big meaningful changes. I could be wrong, but you have to make decisions knowing that how you feel is valid and okay, and you're not wrong, you're crazy. And if you want things to change, you have to make them change.

Speaker 4:
[92:45] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[92:46] And accept that he might not be capable.

Speaker 4:
[92:50] Yeah. All right. Well, thank you so much for sitting with me and hearing my plights.

Speaker 1:
[92:56] I hope it was helpful, but yeah, these are challenges and you're figuring yourself out. And God knows I didn't, you know, figure it out at 22. But yeah, put it this way, relationships are hard. And one thing that being in a relationship with Natalie taught me is that it doesn't need to be that hard. It just doesn't. They're hard enough. Every relationship is going to have its challenges. Every relationship is going to have its dark moments, you know, some real things that you, a couple of every, every relationship, but the day to day should be easy. You know? Yeah. It should like, you know, we like doing the same things together. We like, we're on the same page with our expectations of quality time. I never really had to think about, am I, does my partner match my work ethic? It just like felt like she showed up in a way that like, she makes my life easier and helpful and she, she brings things to the table that I don't. Or, you know, she, her strengths matches my weakness. It just kind of made sense. And it's very much not making sense to you. And it's, it shouldn't be this hard to coexist with your partner. And you're, and I've had relationships in the past where I loved them and they were great and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But it was kind of hard to just coexist with them, you know? And at the end of the day, I just, they weren't my person.

Speaker 4:
[94:28] I hear you. All right.

Speaker 1:
[94:29] Good luck. Okay.

Speaker 4:
[94:31] Thank you so much. You guys are so great.

Speaker 1:
[94:33] Keep me posted when you break up.

Speaker 4:
[94:36] Okay. I'll keep you posted. All right.

Speaker 1:
[94:38] Take care.

Speaker 4:
[94:38] Thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate you. All right.

Speaker 1:
[94:41] Thanks for calling.