transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:00] What's up, everybody? This episode wouldn't be possible without DistroKid. If you are an independent artist, this is for you. DistroKid makes it easy to distribute your songs to all major platforms. We're talking Spotify, Apple Music, TikTok, YouTube, and Instagram. You also get unlimited music uploads for one low yearly price. Keep 100% of the world's chiefsman songs you wrote no commission taken, and your music goes live on streaming services quicker than any other distributor. Check it out at distrokid.com. That's distrokid.com. Link in the description below. And now, let's get to the podcast.

Speaker 2:
[00:46] Do you know Epic Universe?

Speaker 1:
[00:48] Epic Universe, never heard of it.

Speaker 2:
[00:50] It's the new Universal Studios Park in Florida, and they have a whole park dedicated to classic Universal Monsters. So like Frankenstein's Monster, The Mummy, Dracula, The Wolf Man, Creature from the Black Lagoon, all that, it's like an entire theme park dedicated to that. And there's a bunch of other things, there's a Super Nintendo World with a Donkey Kong Country, and a whole, it's totally insane. So that was like our last theme park thing that we did with friends.

Speaker 1:
[01:19] You're in there.

Speaker 2:
[01:20] Yeah, we're kinda in it, we're kinda in it.

Speaker 1:
[01:21] But we're, you know, it's cool, it's cool. Yeah, gotta go, we gotta go back, we're going to Disney today. All right, podcast at Disney. Dude, it's so close, dude, but it's one of those places where the price keeps going up and nobody cares.

Speaker 2:
[01:35] I know.

Speaker 1:
[01:36] We're gonna pay it, I'm still gonna pay it.

Speaker 2:
[01:38] Yeah, because you know, you wanna have fun.

Speaker 1:
[01:40] You wanna have fun.

Speaker 2:
[01:41] That's the price for fun.

Speaker 1:
[01:42] Especially if you have a date, you know.

Speaker 2:
[01:45] That's a good date. Yeah, I think depending on how game your date is for like, you know, for like, what's their speed? Are they a space mountain person? Are they more of a teacups person or something? You don't know. You don't know.

Speaker 1:
[01:57] There's like different levels to the ride. You'll find out.

Speaker 2:
[02:00] You'll find out if this is your soulmate.

Speaker 1:
[02:02] Yeah, totally. Jay Bradley Weinberg.

Speaker 2:
[02:06] That's right.

Speaker 1:
[02:06] Yeah. Has anyone ever introduced you with the full name?

Speaker 2:
[02:10] That's probably the first.

Speaker 1:
[02:11] Okay, cool.

Speaker 2:
[02:11] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[02:12] Off to a great start.

Speaker 2:
[02:13] We are.

Speaker 1:
[02:14] I'm not sure. I don't know why, but I thought you were my age. I thought you already hit 40s. I'm like, oh, he was born September 8th, 1990. Oh, so he's 35?

Speaker 2:
[02:25] I'm 35.

Speaker 1:
[02:26] 35. I don't know why. I thought you're in your 40s. I don't know why.

Speaker 2:
[02:29] Yeah, man. Rock and roll ages you.

Speaker 1:
[02:32] It does. It does. It ages you fast, but you just don't fucking care.

Speaker 2:
[02:37] No.

Speaker 1:
[02:37] I know.

Speaker 2:
[02:37] No.

Speaker 1:
[02:38] I think it's maybe because I thought that is because the amount you accomplished in such a short amount of time. Maybe I just equated that to, oh, he has to be like 43 or 45.

Speaker 2:
[02:51] I sure feel it. Well, thanks. I've just remained busy, I think. Yeah. Much like you, I'm sure once you picked up that thing, it's over. It's all you think about, it's all you do.

Speaker 1:
[03:07] It's done.

Speaker 2:
[03:08] That's your thing. It's the thing I enjoy the most in my life, and so it's like why not try to fill all your time with that. But I haven't really thought of it like that, but I think I'll take that as a compliment.

Speaker 1:
[03:22] Yeah. Thanks. Yeah. Because for us, we're just, it's just like a singular obsessive focused, and you don't even know what you're doing because you're so, it's just like, boom. And then before you know it, where the past decade ago, where are my-

Speaker 2:
[03:39] Two decades ago.

Speaker 1:
[03:40] Yeah. Where are my teens go, man? Yeah. It's so crazy, you know?

Speaker 2:
[03:43] Yeah. But you know, we find like, we find our community, we find our people, and it's like, it's weird. I'm sure you can't conceive of your life without, you know, without this.

Speaker 1:
[03:54] Absolutely not. I was, I was smoking a cigar real, real quick out here, I have a little patio, and more in Santa Ana. So there's a lot of homeless people tend to walk on our street. I'm like, I was looking, it was like 7 p.m., trying to clear the days over, trying to clear, clear mine. I was looking, I'm like, I, where would I be if I didn't find this instrument and the band? I might have, would I be that? Would I turn into some crazy person? I don't know, I don't know.

Speaker 2:
[04:24] Yeah, you know, when you have the, whatever, the butterfly effect of life, you know, and like if things were different, they would not be the same, you know? And so, but how lucky are we that we did find that and like, when did you start? Like I started playing drums when I was like 14.

Speaker 1:
[04:41] 14, right?

Speaker 2:
[04:41] 14, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[04:42] Okay, cool. Yeah, I started playing like 12.

Speaker 2:
[04:44] Okay.

Speaker 1:
[04:45] And I tried to walk away from it many times. I always say this, I tried, but it is, it is just, I don't know, it just comes back. I'm like, oh, I can't, I can't, I'm going to see this through probably to, to the grave.

Speaker 2:
[04:57] That kind of, that was kind of guitar for me as well. Like guitar was my first instrument when I was nine.

Speaker 1:
[05:05] Guitar and bass, right? But you're like, oh, shit sucks.

Speaker 2:
[05:07] Yeah. Well, my, my experience with it, like I picked it up and then the natural thing was like, I'll go take lessons to like figure out what I'm doing here. Meanwhile, like I had my own interests in what I wanted to do. I wanted to play Blink-182 songs and stuff, and I wanted to learn the things that I loved. I wanted to get right to that. Then when I'm kind of struggling with scales and stuff, it made it like school after school, and so I kind of lost interest and I'm nine years old.

Speaker 1:
[05:37] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[05:38] So I kind of put it away, came to bass and was like, I'll pick this up, see what I can do, kind of a similar experience. I had interest, but then developing my faculty on it, it was just like, this feels more like school work, and so I just kind of put that to the side. Then it was when I was 14 that I started to really discover what I loved about this music that we all find and it took me, I remember clearly, I guess it took a couple of years to think about it and have it percolate in my mind. I went to go see the band The Used, my first club show ever. It was My Chemical Romance opening for The Used at Irving Plaza in New York.

Speaker 1:
[06:19] Okay.

Speaker 2:
[06:20] I saw a guy who's become one of my best friends ever since then, Brandon Steinecker. He was the founding drummer of The Used. Seeing him and the ferocity and intensity and love for what he was doing, that's what clicked for me. Whatever this guy is doing, that's like I want to do that. So that's where it started to click for me for drums, for this particular kind of music that I was starting to gravitate towards and find out about, do my research on. That's where that clicked for me. Then 14 found a senior in high school who was the other metalhead in my school.

Speaker 1:
[07:01] You tell him, hey, my dream is to play Chubbies.

Speaker 2:
[07:03] That was it. Yeah. There was this little-

Speaker 1:
[07:06] We're trying to find a place. Is it still around Chubbies or no?

Speaker 2:
[07:09] It's something else. I don't know what it's called now. It's something else. That part of town has changed quite a bit.

Speaker 1:
[07:15] Was it on Main Street?

Speaker 2:
[07:16] It was West Front Street in Red Bank, New Jersey.

Speaker 1:
[07:20] We're trying to find it, but we couldn't find it, man.

Speaker 2:
[07:22] Yeah. No. So it's at the corner of West Front Street and Main Street in Red Bank, and across the street, there was actually an Internet cafe that used to have hardcore and early metalcore shows with literally people using computers for, they don't have a home computer, so they're there just doing their work or something, and they have a kid stage diving off of a table next to them because the stage is the floor and stuff. So that was hugely impactful for myself. There are a couple of people from that particular era, maybe early, mid 2000s, 2003, 2005, who I still run into. They're still doing music, still doing things, and we talk about Internet cafe shows and how those were so important for me. But across the street was a club called Chubby's, and I had seen a friend's older brother play there, and it blew my mind. And that was like, I will one day play Chubby's. That was my only goal when I was 14.

Speaker 1:
[08:21] Wow, and then straight from Chubby's to Giant Stadium. Yeah, yeah. Hey Jay, I really wanna take it back because I learned a lot about you in 24 hours. Oh, Crash Course. Yes, and I was like, you have a very long bloodline of music. Like your mom's father was a pianist, correct? And he also was a physicist that taught at a university, correct?

Speaker 2:
[08:52] That's correct, yeah. Yeah, he taught at mom at the university. He was in Signal Corps in World War II.

Speaker 1:
[08:58] And I heard you say that, what does that mean?

Speaker 2:
[09:00] So he, in World, during World War II, he was stationed in Heidelberg, Germany, and that's where my mom-

Speaker 1:
[09:07] In Germany?

Speaker 2:
[09:07] Yeah, so he was stationed on the US base in Heidelberg, which is actually common. And former bandmate of mine from against me, he also grew up on this same army base that, or he lived there for a period of time, the same army base where my mom was born. So my mom was an army brat. Yeah, my mom was an army brat, grew up in Heidelberg, Germany for the first five years of her life, while her dad was stationed over there. This is post-World War II. But at the time, the technology was such that you... I don't know specifically. I'd actually like to know. This is reminding me that I should talk to my mom about, like, what did my grandpa... Because I never met my grandpa. But I've heard through stories the similarities that we share. So he was both a physicist. After they moved back to New Jersey from Germany, and my mom moved to the States for the first time, they were stationed at Fort Monmouth in New Jersey, which is in Eaton Town, New Jersey, which actually is kind of interesting. Just in the last couple of years, they have completely demolished Fort Monmouth the way that it was when my mom grew up there, because the technology is obsolete. You don't need... I think you're kind of dealing with signal satellite communication and or like primitive, at least for in the 50s, the advanced satellite technology or communications technology. That was like his specialty. That was what he focused on, communications and signal flow in wartime. So they moved back to Fort Monmouth in New Jersey, but now recently the technology has just been rendered completely obsolete. They don't use it anymore. So they demolish the entire fort and now it's becoming this, oh yeah, you got it right here. It's becoming the new Netflix campus, where it's basically going to be like what Burbank is out here. It's going to be all studios. There you go, Netflix at Fort Monmouth. What the hell? It's been a long thing between Netflix and the state of New Jersey, where they're going to design this huge production facility.

Speaker 1:
[11:25] And it's going to be the new Southern California.

Speaker 2:
[11:28] Pretty much.

Speaker 1:
[11:28] Wow, I didn't know that.

Speaker 2:
[11:29] Yeah. So anyway, so that's where my mom grew up, and he was a professor at Monmouth University. But he, so he was simultaneously a physicist, but he also had an interest in the arts, and he was a classically trained pianist. So you've got kind of your classic, both sides of the brain work in there, your math guy and your art guy.

Speaker 1:
[11:49] Two different brains doing one. Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[11:51] And so I think as like, as I started to, you know, I think like the subjects I gravitated the most in, you know, in my younger years, like in school, like I did well in math class, but I also liked punk bands and stuff and all this. So like both of those things were kind of coexisting maybe without me really knowing it. But that's how I was told like, you kind of share this with your grandfather. Like that was how your grandfather thought about, you know, science and art, math and music, stuff like that.

Speaker 1:
[12:20] Wow. And then it was probably your grandfather that showed your mom classical, like, you know, Beethoven, Mozart. And then it's just so I'm not sure this is true. I'm going to this might bomb or my hit. I don't know. So music started for you, even you were coming out of the Life Canal. And during Voodoo Child, is this is true?

Speaker 2:
[12:43] I was born to Voodoo Child by Jimi Hendrix.

Speaker 1:
[12:46] How?

Speaker 2:
[12:46] Well, I should clarify.

Speaker 1:
[12:48] Can you play music with someone's being born?

Speaker 2:
[12:51] Yeah. I mean, if you're if you're wanting that is like you're, you know, I mean, I'm expecting my first child in a month. So I think we'll probably you know, I'll ask my wife, but like she'll probably want, you know, music to enter this, you know, this this moment that divides your life into two distinct halves before you've had a child and after you've had a child.

Speaker 1:
[13:12] Voodoo Child could either mean you're going to be successful or this this kid's going to be a Voodoo Child.

Speaker 2:
[13:16] So so I heard so the way I've heard it, obviously, I don't really have memory of the moment. But but Voodoo Child started playing and my mom was like, no, no, no, no, no. He can't be born to Voodoo Child. She had it switched to Pavarotti or something. Oh, I like the aspect that like as I was entering into this world, there was a bang and boom, boom, boom, boom. I like that idea. That was my entrance song.

Speaker 1:
[13:40] I didn't realize that. That's it. That's an entrance song. Literally, you're coming out of the life canal. I'm a Voodoo Child. Yeah. I didn't realize that you could play music when someone's being born.

Speaker 2:
[13:51] You can do whatever you want, man. I mean, within reason, but you can do whatever you want.

Speaker 1:
[13:55] I want to have a show.

Speaker 2:
[13:57] Well, let's consider safety. Let's consider the sterile environment.

Speaker 1:
[14:02] It's got to be sterile.

Speaker 2:
[14:04] I don't know what band I would want to be playing. I don't know what band I would want playing while I'm born. I mean, to be born like if Slayer is playing or something like that, that would be pretty hard.

Speaker 1:
[14:15] Nighty, yeah. Slayer could be playing. Maybe.

Speaker 2:
[14:20] But yeah, that is accurate.

Speaker 1:
[14:23] Okay, cool. I was curious. Is this like a rumor?

Speaker 2:
[14:26] Factual.

Speaker 1:
[14:27] Okay, cool. So from literally birth to five years old, your mom pretty much continued and you were just jamming classical music. Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[14:40] You know, to give the context of like my family, like my dad with the E Street Band, they had broken up or at least, you know, taken their long hiatus before I was born, 1988 or 89.

Speaker 1:
[14:53] Okay.

Speaker 2:
[14:54] So rock music in that sense wasn't really like, that wasn't the main charge in our household in a way. It was like classical music. That was pretty much like everything that was played in our house until I was like five years old. So and what I found interesting about that is there have been studies on the brain patterns of classical musicians and metal musicians and the ways that we think in layers and dynamics and complex dynamics and all this. That all is the same kind of way of thinking about music as they did when they were creating classical compositions. Yeah. Well, there have been these studies that it's like, they study people's brain patterns and stuff like that. And they find that there, yeah, there you go. Yeah. Paul Stanley and Beethoven, right there.

Speaker 1:
[15:54] So I thought it would be the opposite, but I guess.

Speaker 2:
[15:58] Yeah. I mean, I guess it's like something in the complexity about it and that it's like whatever that is, like the thing that we find, like I think, you know, in the heavier styles of things, I think we find like comfort or a charge or fulfillment or something in what we're creating in that aspect. And that takes from like the heaviness of it, the complexity of it, the, you know, this, that, the other. I think there are similar things that at the time, you could relate that to classical music. But yeah, but then in 95, so this obviously kind of jumps around a little while, like the Conan O'Brien show had been in its infancy, it had only been around for a couple years at this point. But Pete Townsend of The Who was gonna be a guest on the Conan show to speak about this tour that The Who were gonna do celebrating the album Quadrophenia. I don't know if it was like an anniversary of it.

Speaker 1:
[16:54] That was your first show, right?

Speaker 2:
[16:55] That was my first show. But the thing was, was like, I had no context of it. I had never heard The Who. I didn't, all I knew was like Beethoven and Mozart and all this stuff. That was like really all I knew. So when- Yeah, I'm not a Voodoo Child. But so when Pete Townsend was on The Conan Show, and my dad had this thought of like, oh, we got to bring the kids to see Pete Townsend and go see The Who and stuff. My mom's like, well, they won't care who that is because they don't know. We have to start showing them that stuff. So then that started the hand-me-downs they received of The Who, Quadrophenia was probably to this day, still one of the biggest albums in my life. And then, you know, that record. Oh dude, it's unbelievable.

Speaker 1:
[17:41] Have you read his book?

Speaker 2:
[17:42] Pete Townsend's?

Speaker 1:
[17:43] No. Yeah, it's sick. I have to. He talks about that record.

Speaker 2:
[17:47] It is an incredible record and Keith Moon, obviously being a huge influence then, like right off the bat. The first drummer I'm really absorbing is Keith Moon, you know, and like the, just the wild nature of that, I think set me up for like, that's what I love.

Speaker 1:
[18:01] I love this guy. When did Keith Moon pass away?

Speaker 2:
[18:05] Oh, I actually have no idea.

Speaker 1:
[18:06] I was like, can we, I think before I, I want to get this time.

Speaker 2:
[18:10] Yeah, 78.

Speaker 1:
[18:11] Okay.

Speaker 2:
[18:12] I was like, yeah, quite a long time before.

Speaker 1:
[18:14] So then when did this record come out?

Speaker 2:
[18:16] Oh gosh. That's a good question. That's something I should know.

Speaker 1:
[18:20] 73. Okay.

Speaker 2:
[18:22] Okay. So then it was like the Stones, the Beatles, the band, Bob Dylan, you know, that was like kind of before I started finding out my music, you know, that I would discover on my own. Yeah. That was like kind of the steady diet of what I was listening to and becoming obsessed about and developing an obsessive nature about music.

Speaker 1:
[18:46] Nice. And then so you found the who, you see the who, and then you find soccer.

Speaker 2:
[18:51] Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[18:53] Soccer was like, you know, which will eventually that did that lead you in into hockey?

Speaker 2:
[18:58] In a way in that like I didn't take to soccer, you know, like not like viscerally. I took to hockey because I probably started playing soccer around like six years old, seven years old. And then when I went to my first hockey game, that was just like, I think there's something to it. I never really thought about it in these terms, like, you know, the intensity and aggression and violence of it. See, soccer is intense, dude. Oh, I'm talking about hockey.

Speaker 1:
[19:30] Oh, hockey.

Speaker 2:
[19:30] Oh, yeah, yeah. Like, oh, my soccer is intense. And I find like, because even today I can like, you know, be somewhere and it's on TV or something.

Speaker 1:
[19:38] There's Jay Weinberg, he's ten years old.

Speaker 2:
[19:39] Yeah, right.

Speaker 1:
[19:40] Finding somebody.

Speaker 2:
[19:41] Yeah, yeah. That's where I took my inspiration. But like when you watch soccer up close, my wife and I went to a game and it was so incredibly fast. Because the playing field is so insanely huge. And so, I mean, I'm very like in awe of that. But it was hockey that really gripped me at first. It's so fast paced. It's so gnarly. It can change on a dime. You know, the balance of the game can change super quickly. I like the, like, I think I liked like the drama of that, you know? And so that was like it for me. And music wasn't even a, it wasn't on my radar for like something I'm going to be a participant in, you know? Like I said, I dabbled with guitar, kind of liked it, but then fell out of love with it. And like hockey was like, that was what was like consumed, you know?

Speaker 1:
[20:32] This is my life. I'm going to be golden until I'm dead.

Speaker 2:
[20:35] That's right. Yeah, yeah. And then, you know, discovering music, like in the ways that we do in our early teens or preteens or whatever, then that sort of like hooked me with an even stronger interest. And for a couple of years, I kind of had to...

Speaker 1:
[20:50] You were at a crossroads, right? I had to weigh in. Freshman or sophomore, you're at your crossroads.

Speaker 2:
[20:55] That's right. Yeah. I had to decide like, which do I want to do? Like I started a band in high school. I found one other guy that liked metal music in my high school and he was a senior. I was a freshman and he was on the wrestling team. He was like this big dude. He had a guitar chain that was a tire chain, or no, he had a guitar strap that was a tire chain.

Speaker 1:
[21:17] A tire chain? What the hell is a tire chain?

Speaker 2:
[21:20] When you're in the mountains and you're like, I mean, maybe not us, but people who do that.

Speaker 1:
[21:24] Oh, okay.

Speaker 2:
[21:26] Yeah. That was exactly his guitar.

Speaker 1:
[21:28] Oh, yeah, dude.

Speaker 2:
[21:30] So he comes over and we like the same bands and stuff. So he starts coming over, we start jamming, we put together a band. Now I'm like, okay, this is what I want to do. So I had to weigh both in my mind. And then I was just like, you know what?

Speaker 1:
[21:46] It's a tough decision.

Speaker 2:
[21:47] This visceral connection I'm feeling to this music is like, it's too much for me to ignore and I have to just abandon everything else in my life to just to do this. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[21:59] It's such a like.

Speaker 2:
[22:00] Was that kind of your experience?

Speaker 1:
[22:01] Oh, yeah, dude. I was, I think back at it, Jay. I'm like, wow, might have been the same age because I love golf. I still golf in my spare time. And then it was probably around. Then I think about it. I haven't thought about this ever. It might have been around six when I first got into golf or maybe like around there. I wanted to be Tiger Woods.

Speaker 2:
[22:21] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[22:22] I want to be Tiger Woods. And then I tried out Tiger Woods back then.

Speaker 2:
[22:24] Maybe not Tiger Woods these days.

Speaker 1:
[22:25] Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[22:26] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[22:27] Like early. I want to say early.

Speaker 2:
[22:28] Like, yo, I want to flip my car.

Speaker 1:
[22:30] Pre pre pills. Tiger Woods Masters fucking killing it. And then oh, gosh, you don't need that. And then he's 50. I mean, he was the goat. So I tried out for the golf team in freshman year in high school, obviously the only metal guy on the golf team. And then a coach would make kind of like snarky comments. And then during the tryout, we were actually on the course. I kind of, not like a conscious choice, but I just didn't, something, I didn't put my soul into my swing. I stopped for some of my life. I'm not putting my soul into when I'm driving, when I'm putting all that. I kind of flooded on purpose. I didn't like the scene, I liked the people. And then that's when, that was my crossroads. And after the tryout, I'm like, I'm out. And then it was guitar.

Speaker 2:
[23:19] Mine was very similar. Yeah, yeah. Mine was very, very similar. I noticed that like, cause I started playing drums and I would bring my drumsticks to the rink. And as a goalie, I would always get to the rink like really early and just like have my time and put on my pads and stuff. And to kill the time while the rest of the team is getting ready, I'd be drumming on my pads. And that's when I kind of noticed, I was like, I think I know what my bigger passion is here. So yeah, so very, very similar.

Speaker 1:
[23:47] Yeah. You were, you were bringing it to the ice, bringing it to the ice, bringing the heat to the ice. Oh yeah. Is there like a, I mean, is there like a parallel between being a goalie and drumming at all?

Speaker 2:
[23:58] Oh, like a million percent. Absolutely. And in fact, I know, um, I, I play hockey with like, uh, with other guys in bands and stuff. And many guys are drummers who are goalies.

Speaker 1:
[24:11] Really?

Speaker 2:
[24:11] Yeah. And it's interesting cause I've, um, and I've met goalies who play in the NHL, who at least have a knowledge, like a deep knowledge of drums, or they are drummers themselves. And, and in particular, like heavy metal drummers. There's something specific about it. Yeah, like a guy named Tuca Rask. He's a, he was a goalie for the Boston Bruins for the longest time. And he's like huge Metallica fan. And it was for his either, I think it was one of his, uh, he had, he had crossed the threshold of like, I don't know if it was a thousand games, but it was like a milestone in his career. And, and the team gifted him a replica of Lars Ulrich's drum set at the time. And it was like he, you can see him, it's like all set up at the rink and stuff. And he's like, yeah, he's like all stoked.

Speaker 1:
[24:59] Oh, that's cool, man. Wow. And so 500 games. Look at it. It's on the ice.

Speaker 2:
[25:04] I didn't know they brought it on the ice. Oh my God. That's awesome.

Speaker 1:
[25:08] Imagine being a goalie and you're five in the game. They bring out a fucking drum set. That's it. That's the kit.

Speaker 2:
[25:14] That's the kit. Uh, so look at that. So that's the goalie of the Boston Bruins. And so that's just like the greatest example of how there is something. And I've looked at it as like, as a goalie, you are the last line of defense, often the first person that gets their finger pointed out if something goes wrong. Uh, you know, it's just, it's just like the position. It's a high pressure, high intensity, high reward and high satisfaction kind of position. And I often equated it like I loved the satisfaction of like when I would get up the slap shot to my chest and I'd feel like I made the save, like I did the thing, you know? And very similarly, drums kind of felt that same way for me where I'm like I'm delivering the impact. I'm, you know, like I love that high intensity kind of thing. And so I craved it when I was a hockey player. I crave it as a drummer, like having that physical experience. And so I think there is something. And also, and you could probably attest to this, it's like goalie is usually the weirdest guy on the team. Drummer is usually like the weirdest guy in the band.

Speaker 1:
[26:20] I'm glad you addressed the first elephant in the room. I kind of wait till it's like natural drummers.

Speaker 2:
[26:27] Yeah, what's with us?

Speaker 1:
[26:28] I don't know, man. Drummers, but you need a drummer.

Speaker 2:
[26:32] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[26:33] My drummer is insane.

Speaker 2:
[26:34] Can't live with them, can't live without them.

Speaker 1:
[26:35] Yeah, but there is, but I still love them.

Speaker 2:
[26:38] Yeah, man.

Speaker 1:
[26:38] I still fucking love them.

Speaker 2:
[26:39] Yeah, well, I mean, like anybody, like you would say to a goalie, it's like, what's wrong with you, man? You've got these 100 mile an hour, you know, slap shots coming, whizzing by your head and stuff, yet you love this. It's like, there is something about the, you know, the love for it. And at a certain point, there is a, you know, words escape us with how to define why it is. We gravitate towards that. I think, you know, I had a predisposition, even though it wasn't like I had a motivation, or even like I was pressured to follow in my father's footsteps. He never suggested, like.

Speaker 1:
[27:18] Never.

Speaker 2:
[27:18] Like, what about playing drums and stuff? Like, it was never even a conversation. It was just like, it was a natural thing that I think, as I started falling in love with punk rock and hardcore and heavy metal and stuff, I started to notice, like, the hard work and the intensity of the bands that I loved. And I would see it, then, you know, my dad is an active musician, and when Bruce got the E Street Band back together, I'm seeing them play shows, and I'm observing the same thing, like, with my family and the people around my family. And, like, that was what kind of hooked me, where I was just kind of like, this is where you can apply so much of your energy and, you know, your interests and trying to create something out of nothing and work hard at it and do it well and all this kind of stuff. Like, that's where that kind of hooked me. But it wasn't like an active conversation that we ever had. You know, my dad, yeah, yeah. I think, you know, supportive in the way of like, hey, whatever you're interested, like he was supportive of my hockey interests just as much. And he was just like, okay, if that's your thing, like, yeah, like do it and practice it and do it, you know, to the best of your ability. Just like you'd hope any, you know, parent would be. And then when it switched to drums, there was a moment where when I started developing, like, you know, I really wanna go for this. I really wanna, you know, start a band in high school and all these things that we do.

Speaker 1:
[28:43] 14?

Speaker 2:
[28:44] When I was 14, maybe 15 at this point. And it was a conversation we had of, he was like, you know, I could give you lessons or we could, you know, get you lessons at the, there's a drum store in Red Bank near Chubbies called Drummers Alley. And that's where, you know, they gave lessons and stuff. He's like, you could take lessons over there. And I was like, you know what? It's all like hell. Well, I was like, I don't want to have happen what happened with me with guitar and with bass, which I, you know, I gravitated towards since, you know, like my primary writing instruments are guitar and bass and stuff. But my, I was like, I don't, I want to find out what I love about this just for the love of it. And I don't want to fall out of love with it like I did with guitar and bass when I was younger. And so that meant me figuring out how to play along to my Ramones records. And then, you know, a little bit, I would, I would feel accomplished that I could do that and then move on to something a little harder, you know, my Metallica records, my Slayer records, my Slipknot records, stuff like that. Okay. And so that's where that all started to take shape. And then once you get the mechanics of it, then it's like, okay, I want to like make stuff with my friends. And that's where that kind of happened.

Speaker 1:
[30:00] Nice. I don't know if I should ask this question. You already answered it, kind of. But maybe I want you to elaborate more because there's an overabundance, Jay, of really sick drummers. And I find that some drummers get lucky and they get a gig. Our drummer is kind of a perfect example. Sometimes this happens. How do, if you want to be a drummer and you want to be self taught, how do you start?

Speaker 2:
[30:30] How do you start small and set incremental, logical goals for yourself? That was always, I'm always hesitant to give advice, advice, because we all have the things that work for us that don't work for others or whatever.

Speaker 1:
[30:46] I just share strictly experience. This worked for me, this didn't work for me. You take it as you will.

Speaker 2:
[30:51] Yeah, but I think there are kind of like universal things that we, a lot of us share that like a lot of people can probably relate to. I was able to push myself forward in my goals or the things I wanted to do by taking my, if I have a bigger goal, breaking that down into smaller parts and just going just one step in front of the other.

Speaker 1:
[31:12] Ramon's song one.

Speaker 2:
[31:13] Exactly, yeah. So I was like, you know what?

Speaker 1:
[31:14] Stepping Bird. Yeah. What's next?

Speaker 2:
[31:16] Dude, it's like, it's legit. You know, the first song on Ramon's It's Alive, 1975, 78, is Rockaway Beach. And so like the first song I taught myself, there you go. First song I taught myself was Rockaway Beach. And then I tried to make my way through that entire album because I listened to that album nonstop, you know?

Speaker 1:
[31:38] So you went track one to track two?

Speaker 2:
[31:42] Yeah, just the whole thing. Wow, that's cool.

Speaker 1:
[31:44] That's awesome.

Speaker 2:
[31:45] I also had the fascination with like, when I was young, I would take the train from New Jersey up to New York, and I would go to like St. Mark's Place and, you know, Lower East Side places, CBGBs when it's still around, and just kind of like explore the, you know, you'd see all these pictures of the Ramones outside, CBGBs or whatever. And I'm like, I can go there. I can see this stuff and like, feel it for myself. And so that's kind of like, you know, I got a huge, because I had this like proximity to that East Coast punk rock stuff, cause I was just like, you know, obviously I'm like decades after it, but like the ghosts are still there. And I was interested in that.

Speaker 1:
[32:25] Totally. Is this it right here?

Speaker 2:
[32:26] That's CBGBs, man. Yeah. I got to play there twice. Were you played there? I did.

Speaker 1:
[32:32] With the Madball?

Speaker 2:
[32:33] No, no, no, that would have been fucking awesome. No, but I might die. I might die, yeah. Somebody might have. No, the first time I played there was, I had been, it's like a long convoluted story, but to spare all the details.

Speaker 1:
[32:52] Let's go.

Speaker 2:
[32:52] I played a show, my high school band, my second high school band, we were the first of like H2O, the band H2O, asked us to play, because we, you know, mutual friends and all this. We were, you know, the first of like 10 bands or something, and we played, we got to play CBGBs because of H2O. And that was like, that was cool. The most meaningful thing ever. And then I had also developed into my teenage years, I was developing a friendship with The Bouncing Souls. And the first time I ever played drums in front of anybody, even my family or anything, was with The Bouncing Souls actually. That's a long, long story, but that was like...

Speaker 1:
[33:39] You're at the right place to tell it.

Speaker 2:
[33:40] Yes, yes. Well, okay, so that's, oh my gosh. Okay, so that story is...

Speaker 1:
[33:45] 24 hour podcast, let's go.

Speaker 2:
[33:46] Right, right, right, all right. So this is 2005, The Bouncing Souls, I'd become a fan of theirs and was interested in them from New Jersey, and they played... Are they really? Yeah, yeah, from like New Brunswick area, and you know, Asbury Park and stuff.

Speaker 1:
[34:00] I didn't know that.

Speaker 2:
[34:01] Yeah, so they'd be playing in New Jersey all the time. So I'd see them like every couple months, and I'd be going to a Bouncing Souls show from when I was like 14, 15. And they're also big, big Bruce fans, as many people in New Jersey are. And they... You know, my dad would come to shows, because I'm like, let's go see the Bouncing Souls. And he's like, he's now getting an education into, you know, new bands, and like through my eyes, because he's now seeing not his generation, but he's seeing what his generation and the E Street Band and stuff, he's seeing like, okay, so this is what we kind of raised in a way. And The Bouncing Souls, and you know, you could even take that to like other New Jersey bands, Thursday, My Chemical Romance and stuff. And like, these are all bands that are happening in New Jersey at that time. And so, so we would go together because, you know, I'm like, dad, we got to check out this band, and we would. And so at a certain point, our friendship developed and they were like, they were like, hey, we do, we do a cover of the Springsteen song Growing Up. We're playing this festival in Asbury Park that used to be called the Skate and Surf Festival.

Speaker 1:
[35:04] Okay.

Speaker 2:
[35:05] Turned into the Bamboozle. And I believe it was the first year of the Bamboozle.

Speaker 1:
[35:10] I missed that festival.

Speaker 2:
[35:11] Yeah. Skate and Surf, like, Bamboozle was great. They've brought it back a couple of times, I think. Skate and Surf was unbelievable. I was at that exact show.

Speaker 1:
[35:19] Oh, is this one?

Speaker 2:
[35:21] This is before that. So Andrew WK. I was in the giant crowd. Have you ever seen Andrew W.K.'s shows where he brings like a million people on stage? Well, so he did it at that show and I got onto the stage from the crowd and the whole stage buckled beneath us. It was insane. That was, I think, before my 13th birthday. I was like 12 years old when this happened. So Skate and Surf Festival was huge for us growing up in New Jersey, seeing these bands and you'd see early Census Fail, the movie life, a lot of drive-through records bands. That was how I was very influenced through my friend's brother, who turned me onto all these drive-through records bands and whatever. So Skate and Surf was huge for us. Anyway, it turns into the bamboozle. They're like, hey, would you play growing up with us? Would you sit in on this cover with us at this festival? He's like, yeah, sure, sure. Because we're friends with these guys now. So they came over, where we had a jam set up in our barn shed kind of deal. So they go through growing up and it's cool. It's like a faster, more punk version of the song growing up. I had never played drums in front of anybody. I had just been learning my Ramones records and then my Bouncing Souls records and stuff and whatever. But so I was a big, big fan. And here these guys are, these like heroes of mine. They came over to jam.

Speaker 1:
[36:50] They're right there in front of you.

Speaker 2:
[36:51] And I'm like, whoa, this is so gnarly. And I got the courage to be like, hey, could we play some Bouncing Souls? Could I play a couple Bouncing Souls songs while you guys are here? And we play one and then we play two and then three. And then we ended up playing a 25 song set of like, I've been such a fan, you know? And I was just like, this is my first time playing music with people. And my dad was there. I purposely kept him out. I was like, I'm too nervous. I'm too self-conscious. I'm too like all of this. Yeah, kind of like I want to do this for myself. I just want to learn what I want to do with this. And so then they were like, that was nuts, you know? And I just like hacked my way through all this stuff and just had a lot of fun with these guys on this afternoon. Anyway, they fast forward like a week or two, and they're like, we are playing a secret show at the Asbury Lanes, which was like down the street from where this, you know, the main show, the bamboozle was going to happen. It's literally a bowling out at the time. They've now made it like an official venue like a real stage and sound system and everything.

Speaker 1:
[38:04] How far is that from the Stone Pony?

Speaker 2:
[38:06] Oh, it's like down the street. Okay. Yeah, it's all like that.

Speaker 1:
[38:09] It's there, okay.

Speaker 2:
[38:10] That Asbury Park kind of like, you know, square mile was where like so much of my formative years were. It's where my parents met, you know, it's like, there's so, dude, like the Asbury Park environment is like, it's still to this day, I think it's one of the most inspiring places to be. When I was a teenager, you know, that was a band called The Parlor Mob, who then eventually signed to Roadrunner Records. And I befriended, they were like the hometown hero band.

Speaker 1:
[38:39] What are they called?

Speaker 2:
[38:40] The Parlor Mob.

Speaker 1:
[38:41] And they were signed to Roadrunner?

Speaker 2:
[38:42] They did, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[38:42] How do I not know this?

Speaker 2:
[38:43] Oh dude, the great band.

Speaker 1:
[38:44] I never heard of this band on Roadrunner.

Speaker 2:
[38:45] Are you serious? Great band. They have an album called And You Were a Crow, that was like, that was one of my, I listen to that album like every day when I was a kid. So they signed to Roadrunner and Truth Be Told, so I was like 16 and I went to a Parlor Mob show that I couldn't get into, I wasn't old enough. And they snuck me in and their new A&R guy at Roadrunner, his name is Dave Rath and he was there, he had just signed these guys. My hometown hero is a Parlor Mob. And we just got tacos before this show, right? And watched the show, it was great. Never heard from him again. Until a couple years later, he gave me a phone call of like, hey, my name is Dave. And Dave, if you're listening, like you know this story. So he was like, hey, my name is Dave. We met years ago with the Parlor Mob. And he went into this thing how he had a band that was on tour, their first headlining tour in America. And he was like, I don't know if you remember me, but like, I've got this band, they're on tour, their drummer just hurt his arm. I need a drummer to like get out to this tour tomorrow and do the rest of this tour. Are you around? Are you available? Fast forward to like 2013 or so. And I was like, yes, like what band is it? There was a band called Kvallertak, incredible band from Norway that I had seen a couple times a few months earlier. I was on tour with Against Me and every couple days, we were all emanating from a festival. And this is like the craziest tangent I've ever gone on, but it'll all circle back, it'll all circle back, I promise, anybody listening. So on this tour that I was on with Against Me, we were all emanating out from the Fun Fun Fun Festival in Austin, you ever play that?

Speaker 1:
[40:27] No.

Speaker 2:
[40:28] Really cool, very eclectic festival. It was like one stage, it was like Against Me, Napalm Death, Converge, Tomahawk, Kvallertak, Torch, Municipal Waste, it was like wild. But then on the other stage, there's Run DMC and stuff, like super eclectic festival. I don't think they do it anymore. But anyway, so we all played this festival, all these bands, and then we're all touring out from there. Every couple of days, we would be in the same town as the Converge tour that had Kvallertak on it. As a fan, I would just go all the time and I would just see them every three days, like, oh shit, we have a day off. And the Converge tour with Kvallertak is on it, so check it out. I'm like, okay, I remember that band from that tour I saw a couple of months ago. Like, yes, I'm in, I'll do it, I'm down. So anyway, that's all like, that's how the Asbury Park scene and the Parlor Mob, that was like my generation. And then before that, that was Bruce and the E Street Band, the Southside Johnny and the Asbury Jukes, all these bands that kind of like, it goes in generations seemingly, but like it's, like I said, about like CBGBs and stuff, the ghosts are still there, the ghosts on the boardwalk and stuff, you know, it's like very much a real thing. Anyway, so they're like, come play at this secret show, or you come to this secret show we're doing at the Asbury Lanes, and it's just like a packed rager punk show. Literally, the stage was just a ply, a sheet of plywood on the bowling alley, and people are bowling like right next to us. So I get up on stage and they're like, hey, play one of those songs that we played at your house. It's just like a fun secret show. There's like zero pressure, but just like wild punk rock show. So I got up and we played two songs, and that was the first time I played live music ever. Ever. So where are we connecting this? Because then that we're talking about Asbury Park, we're talking about The Bouncing Souls, talking about, oh gosh, where did we come from?

Speaker 1:
[42:36] I know, you took me on a whole journey. I was just like, I feel like I'm on a roller coaster. I don't know what's coming next.

Speaker 2:
[42:42] I can usually circle back to the thing, to the crux of it. Do you have the notes of what we were talking about like 20 minutes ago?

Speaker 1:
[42:52] Bouncing Souls, you jamming with Bouncing Souls.

Speaker 2:
[42:54] Asbury Park, I don't know. Well, so this was like, I was finding the music that really spoke to me at that age, and that was the stuff that was seriously hooking me. We're talking about, I'm learning how to teach, oh, teaching yourself how to play drums and stuff. Here we go. Yes.

Speaker 1:
[43:17] Yes.

Speaker 2:
[43:18] So those were things. So we're talking about an advice.

Speaker 1:
[43:22] I love this podcast.

Speaker 2:
[43:24] Not necessarily giving advice, but the things that worked in that context was like, I had been teaching myself in solitude, not sharing it with anybody, but then having these guys who I was really looking up to, and this, that, this connection through my father and myself, I'm sharing my love for this punk rock stuff. He's taking an interest and an active participation and like, okay, I get this. It's not my generation, but this is cool. We had been going to shows, seeing heavy metal shows and stuff, and finding out the cross-section of where all this stuff exists. So it was a big step for me to raise my hand and be like, hey, I know some of your songs. Can we jam on some of those? And then just having the, like, putting my, like, my rational brain or my fight or flight, like, you know, that fight or flight kind of thing that we all have certain moments in our life where, like, you're too nervous to do it, but fuck it, I'll just do it anyway. That would then resurface. Like, you know, say a couple years later, when I was 17, I was, I've been, you know, been playing around and booking, you know, my own shows, booking little regional tours and stuff. My high school band was breaking up because we were all going to go to different schools and whatever.

Speaker 1:
[44:46] Was your high school band named after a Charles Manson family member?

Speaker 2:
[44:52] Yeah, Sadie Mae. Oh, wow. Because I was very inspired. Well, Sadie Mae Glutz was the pseudonym for one of the Manson family members, Susan Atkins. And I was a big fan of the band Alkaline Trio. Still am, obviously. But there was an Alkaline Trio song called Sadie, and they wrote a song about this woman, Sadie, that carried out the Manson murders and stuff.

Speaker 1:
[45:17] Oh, yes, okay.

Speaker 2:
[45:19] So yeah, we were like a really super shitty hardcore band.

Speaker 1:
[45:24] Sounds like a fucking crust band, dude.

Speaker 2:
[45:26] Yeah, so Sadie Mae was my first band.

Speaker 1:
[45:30] Man, you have any shirts?

Speaker 2:
[45:32] No. I think the singer of that band, like he made the shirts, he screen printed the shirts. He might still have a couple. Adam, if you're here in this, maybe if you have, I'd love to see if we have any shirts left, that would be.

Speaker 1:
[45:46] Oh man, you gotta wear a shirt.

Speaker 2:
[45:47] I mean, that was, wait, maybe that's another band that called himself Sadie Mae. That looks, yeah, we didn't have a Facebook. We were broken up well before Facebook. This is like an actual band. Yeah, they have like records and stuff.

Speaker 1:
[45:58] Oh wow.

Speaker 2:
[45:59] Well, there you go. Clearly, yeah, that was not us playing Dime Fest. That's out here, isn't it?

Speaker 1:
[46:05] Yeah, I mean, is this pre MySpace or?

Speaker 2:
[46:08] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[46:08] Okay.

Speaker 2:
[46:09] So this is, well, I mean like 2007. So like, I guess in Smack Dab, in the middle of MySpace being a thing. But so, we're talking about these like, there have been these moments where I'm kind of throwing myself into my high school band and this and that. And we were breaking up, we were going to different schools. This is the summer of 2008. And I've obviously, I've been around Bruce and Steve and my dad, and all these guys at the E Street Band, like my whole life, like this is family to me. And even to this day, I try to see them as much as possible, just to squeeze all the, I love celebrating that aspect of our family's dynamic. I still derive so much inspiration from that. And they still kill it. Anyway, I was the last child of the members of the band to get up on stage and do anything. Because I'm like, you know, it'd be one thing for me to, if I was like messing up on guitar, they could be like, okay, take him out of the mix or whatever. If I'm like messing up on drums, that's like, that's impossible. You know, so yeah, and like I do that in front of like a lot of people, like the pressure, I'm just like, oh, that. So I never, I never thought I would, it was just like, you know, I saw my I saw my sister do it when she was like 12. She played keyboards at like Madison Square Garden. It was nuts. Yeah. And I'm watching like my 12 year old sister like play, you know, keyboards in this arena. It's like so very family dynamic. And like, I love that aspect of Bruce's, you know, the way that he orchestrates the band. Even to this day, Clarence Clemens' nephew, Jay Clemens, is the saxophonist in the E Street Band. So it's very the original saxophonist Clarence, his nephew is in the band. So, very family-oriented. And that's like total Jersey style, it feels like. And so, but I was like, I'm definitely afraid of that. I can never, I could never see myself doing that. But Bruce asked if like, if I would get up at soundcheck and play a song. And it's kind of like when the boss man asks, you know, you got to, when he says jump, you say how high, that's just how it goes. And so I was like, oh my God, okay. So I learned a song, played it with them at soundcheck. And I was like, okay, I played in an empty giant stadium. And I can say I technically played giant stadium, you know? And I'm like, okay, I'm satisfied with that. And to Bruce's credit, he was like, that felt pretty good. Why don't we play that during the show? And instantly, like my stomach is just like, no. Like, you know, how can I wrap my head around that? But like I said, if he asks, like who has it in them to say no to him? No, you can't say no to the boss. And so we played it. We played the song Born to Run, which is one of his most iconic songs in the state that birthed Bruce and the E Street Band. So it was like a very, it was like, you know, that was one of those moments, just like asking the Bouncing Souls, like, hey, can we play some of your songs together? That was one of those things where I was like, I am nervous to my absolute core, but I'm gonna, I have to, I can't live with myself if I didn't give it everything I got and try to own that moment. And so that happened. And then I was like, okay, I never have to do that again. That was totally insane. Didn't feel real, didn't look real, but I got through it. I got to the end, no train wreck. Okay. And then after that came this unexpected scheduling conflict that my dad had with the Conan show. It was originally, you know, the late night with Conan O'Brien filmed in New York. They were now taking over the Tonight Show that was filmed out in Burbank. There was a big shift and he had to be the beginning of that. And that timed out with a Bruce tour, literally at the same exact time. So he had to be in two places at once. And so Steve had seen Steve Van Zandt, Silvio Dante of the Sopranos and of the E Street Band. He had come to see my high school band, not Sadie Mae, but the band after. And we're very inspired by like Macedon and Slayer and stuff. And we're doing crazy time signature or stuff, whatever. And Steve was like, I don't understand this at all, but I love it. And he, when this whole thing is like, okay, who do we have do this? Like we've never had to have a sub for Max before. Like how do we do it at that time, like what, 35 years, something like that. We've never had to do this. What do we do?

Speaker 1:
[51:03] 35 years.

Speaker 2:
[51:04] And so Steve, he like raised his hand. He's like, what about his kid? And he's like, I saw him play at this bar in New York. He told me this story actually like a year or two ago, cause I didn't know this. But he said, he goes like, what I said was that you're, he's like talking to Bruce, cause they're all like, what, like really? Like he played that one song, but like you're thinking about this as a tour thing. And he's like, your music will be like, Mary had a little lamb to this kid. Cause he's seeing us play, you know, this crazy math metal stuff, whatever. But that also means like a 17 year old, 18 year old taking on this responsibility.

Speaker 1:
[51:45] You're 17, 18 years old?

Speaker 2:
[51:47] Yeah. 18 when this conversation was happening. And so they talked about it. And it was just Bruce called me, asked if I would be up for this. And it was just one of those things. So it's like, I can't obviously, this situation is what it is and it's my family. I'm kind of like in this position of trying to assist. And that was very unique to that situation. So that's not like advice, because that's like, I lucked out, sure, in that dynamic of things. But I think the aspect of luck being preparedness, meaning opportunity is that it's like, this was my life and it was consuming me and I was practicing and just developing a thing to go out into the world. And then when this thing got asked of me by the people I've known my whole life, I was like, I can try to wrap my head around that. And then that's what we ended up doing. So all those things to say is like, that's not exactly one foot in front of the other. That's like a quantum leap into a different kind of thing.

Speaker 1:
[52:55] You're taking a spaceship into another planet.

Speaker 2:
[52:57] Yes. But what I felt was important, and this is the great thing about Bruce, is that he was able to break down something for an 18-year-old that would be like, how do you wrap your head around this? Bruce, in his ways as a band leader, I've never been around anybody else who's ever conducted a band like this where he broke down something so gargantuan like that for an 18-year-old down to like, you can accomplish this and let's do this together. We did. That was what allowed me to look at it in the same way that I was looking at, you know, I want to play Chubbies, I want to play the Internet Cafe, I want to book a show for my high school band in Philadelphia or whatever. And like this just was able to kind of, in the way that I was kind of guided or directed at this thing, I was able to kind of like slip it into that where I'm like, I can see how it's going to take a lot of work and like a lot of, you know, effort and stuff, but like I can see where this would work. And it did.

Speaker 1:
[54:02] What did, what's like a main takeaway or what did, what's like a main point that that Bruce taught you?

Speaker 2:
[54:11] Many things. I think, you know, work ethic and discipline and a responsibility to the task at hand of like, cause he expressed to me, you know, there's an element of it, like, you know, we're a family and we're, you know, connected in this positive way, but we've never had conversations of like, this is this thing that we do and it is serious. And it's taken us, we have built this for decades, and I have built this for decades, and my songs, and my relationship with my audience, and this and that, I'm coming in as a teenager. And so to wrap my head around like, and that's not to say that it was an intimidating thing, but it was to express in a way that I guess like an 18 year old could understand, like this is high stakes rock and roll. And it's to be treated with respect and with diligence and with honor and focus and drive and attention and not be, you know, not to be distracted and stuff like that. Those were the things that I was like when I, cause I've been observing them and their work ethic and like they're playing fucking four hour long shows.

Speaker 1:
[55:26] They have long sets.

Speaker 2:
[55:27] Oh my, to this day, like three plus hours.

Speaker 1:
[55:29] How do you learn three hours set, man?

Speaker 2:
[55:31] Well, he gave me a list of songs right at the beginning, like this is what we'll start with and it's like several hundred songs.

Speaker 1:
[55:37] What the, how do you even?

Speaker 2:
[55:39] Well, I had been attentive and just like loving it, you know? There were songs on the tour that I had never sat down, on the tour that we did together, that I sat down. And I had never played that song on a kit before, but he calls it out and you can't like deny the boss. So it's like, okay, I've been listening to this song since I was a kid. Like, I know this one and we just go.

Speaker 1:
[56:08] Are you, he calls it out and you got to fucking play it?

Speaker 2:
[56:11] Well, at that time, you know, the set list, we often joke that it's like the set list is, at the end of a show, it looks more like a football play with like, okay, this song got scratched off, this one moved down here, this one got pushed up to the top of the set. You know, we changed the song we're opening with before we walked onto the stage. What the? There was a space in the middle of the set, so it would look like that with his handwriting. And there was a space in the middle of the set, that was just, so you see all the songs. On that tour, songs 12 through 17 were just question marks. And we'll just feel it out. And but I had understood that dynamic from watching it all the time. I'm like, I know that is part of it, so I have to be ready for that. And so, you know, all still while, you know, I've been playing drums for about three or four years at that time. And so I'm still developing mechanics and this stuff, but it was like, it, yeah, it was a tremendous challenge at the time. But then I feel like, and that came to its natural conclusion. But then going on from there, and like, it had just whet my appetite for then, you know, many things that happened since 2009, that I was like, you know, that drive and focus and attention and the love and the, you know, the, like, everything I felt as a part of that. I was like, that's, that's how that's done. Okay, so now I, so now I want to apply that into other, you know, other things and went on to do that, I suppose.

Speaker 1:
[57:52] How do you go from this to Madball?

Speaker 2:
[57:55] Sure. Yeah. Yeah, you wouldn't necessarily put both of those bands in the same room.

Speaker 1:
[58:01] How do you?

Speaker 2:
[58:02] Um, okay, so, um, to this.

Speaker 1:
[58:06] Thank you for sharing that.

Speaker 2:
[58:07] Of course.

Speaker 1:
[58:07] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[58:08] Yeah. Um, so shortly after, you know, that that tour ended in the beginning of 2010, I think, and, um, or end of end of 2009. And Blink 182 was on tour at the time. And I went to a Blink show and a friend was able to sneak me backstage to where there was, like, a hang happening at Madison Square Garden and talking about hockey. The guitar player for Madball at the time. We've been at a lot of, you know, shows and I would show up at, like, New York hardcore shows. I was like, oh, I know that's the, the Madball guy and he always wears a New York Rangers hat and stuff. And so he's backstage as well. And I'm like, I don't really know many people here. Like, I know some people and my friend had snuck me back, but then, like, he kind of went, did his own thing. So I'm like trying to find people to talk to or whatever. And I'm like, oh my God, hockey fan, right? You're the guy from Madball. And so he's wearing a Rangers hat. And I'm like, oh, let's talk about hockey. And then we ended up doing that. And exchanged numbers or something like that. Became friends on Facebook. And he hit me up like a week later. And he goes, I was doing a thing with my dad, which is actually getting brought back this year. It's actually really cool. Guitar Center has their drum off event. Yeah. And they're bringing it back this year, which I think is really cool. But so Tommy Lee and my friend Frank Zumo of some 41 and Street Drum Corps and all these things, they were putting on a show where they wanted to celebrate all styles of music. And my dad and I had just shared this thing where we were like tag teaming, because I didn't play on that tour alone for a good bit of it. They integrated me into the tour. That's probably important to also say how it's like, I wasn't just dropped out of the sky playing four-hour shows. I would play two songs one show, four songs another show, and my dad is playing the rest. Eight songs, ten songs. I play the whole first half of the show. I play the whole second half of the show. Play the encore, whatever. So then by the time it was incumbent on me to play full shows, I had already played each part of the show partially. So we had done this thing where it was like my dad and me playing in the same band at the same time, sharing this responsibility. And that was actually an interesting dynamic in and of itself because like here you have this classic rock guy who's been doing it forever. And this young punk kid, his kid, bringing that kind of into this thing. It was, it made for kind of an interesting dynamic because we don't play, we don't play the songs quite exactly the same, you know, I'm, I'm-

Speaker 1:
[60:48] No drummer is the same.

Speaker 2:
[60:49] No, and I'm approaching this music through the influence I got from Dave Lombardo and these guys and stuff, you know, so. But trying to do justice to it. So, you know, we had done this together and then Tommy and Frank are like, hey, we should have both of you guys on stage together, do something that like takes both of your styles and smashes them together. And you can see this on YouTube, the Guitar Center Drum Off that we did, where he's playing more of his big band swing style. He's got a suit, he looks sharp. And I'm like, I like hand drew my bass drum head, and I'm like head banging and doing more of like a Bonham kind of style heaviness. Think to a swing song, the song Sing, Sing, Sing. You would recognize it.

Speaker 1:
[61:38] Like Sepplin style dude.

Speaker 2:
[61:40] Yes. So I'm out doing this drum off thing. I was here in LA. And this guy from Madball reaches out because we had just met like the week before. And he's like, hey, I see. Yeah, this is the thing that we did. Or wait, no, that's Tommy. Look at that kick drum. My God.

Speaker 1:
[62:00] Is that okay?

Speaker 2:
[62:01] That's like a 90 inch kick drum.

Speaker 1:
[62:03] Jay, is that a real kick drum?

Speaker 2:
[62:05] Yeah, clearly.

Speaker 1:
[62:06] Or is it like in front of a kick drum?

Speaker 2:
[62:08] I mean, maybe it's in front.

Speaker 1:
[62:09] Oh, yeah, come on, dude.

Speaker 2:
[62:12] But maybe it's amplifying it in some way. I mean, we've all done that trick. We've all done that trick of putting kick drums, one in front of another in the studio, and it has an effect.

Speaker 1:
[62:21] Yes, you put the mic in front, right? Like in between, right?

Speaker 2:
[62:26] That tunnel effect where it just creates the depth. Oh, yeah, yeah. Anyway, yeah, and there's Frank. So they put together this show. We did our thing in that. And this dude from Madball hits me up and he goes, hey, are there any drummers out there that you think would be into playing with Madball? We're about to go out on this European tour in two weeks. We don't have a drummer. And I was like, I would love to do that. And he's like, really? I didn't know you'd be into that. I was like, absolutely. That sounds like a dream. And so I crash course the set that they had at the time, got into a jam room. We played together. A week later, I met Freddie, the singer of Madball. I actually met him walking on to the stage at our first show together. And then we went to Europe and had like a four or five something week tour where it was just like, I was like, this is everything I've ever dreamed of, getting in a bus and in this hardcore band and there's stage dives and mosh pits and stuff. Obviously you're not having that in the Bruce context. So I'm like, this is everything I love. And so, yeah, that happened and...

Speaker 1:
[63:46] And then you were going back and forth from home in Queens trying to do the record while also going to school, right?

Speaker 2:
[63:53] Yeah, so this whole time I was, yeah, I was a student at a place called Stevens Institute of Technology, which...

Speaker 1:
[64:01] What is that?

Speaker 2:
[64:01] It's a great school and I'm really, I enjoyed the education that I had there, but even like kind of just as important the education I got, I was outside of New York City. So I'd be in New York every night or Brooklyn every night absorbing those creative environments and that I developed an interest in visual art and going to these boutique galleries that were run by people who were kind of tangential to music as well. They did posters for bands and I'm like, I'm going to go to your gallery and see what this is all about, and just really exposed to all this stuff. But yeah, so I had a full course load and I'd be in class for, whatever, 10 hours a day or something. Then I'd take the train out to Queens and we'd work on this Madball record and did that for a handful of months, I don't know, four or five months, something like that. Made a record actually with Eric Rutan, who I discovered we went to the same high school together. Do you know Eric Rutan? Are you serious? Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[64:58] Random.

Speaker 2:
[64:58] Yeah. So Eric and I, we get to know each other. He's like, oh, you're from Jersey. I'm from Jersey. Where'd you grow up? And I'm like, I grew up in the Middletown area and I went to Rumsden Fairhaven High School. He's like, I went to RFH. He's like, are you kidding me? And so we get, I'm like, dude, Eric Rutan, I've been like a fan since I was a kid. And so now I'm making this record with him and his studio. And I didn't know that Eric did that record. Yeah. It's called Empire.

Speaker 1:
[65:23] Empire. Yeah. I didn't know he did that record. Holy shit.

Speaker 2:
[65:25] Yeah. That's, that's, that's in a way why it sort of has like, that I thought it was kind of interesting. It's like, okay, New York hardcore band with a death metal producer and, you know, Eric's done what Eric's has done and like that's what he's done is amazing. It's like, how, how do we bring these two flavors together as an interesting combination?

Speaker 1:
[65:45] It's a great time because, uh, 2011?

Speaker 2:
[65:49] Uh, yeah, about then or 2010.

Speaker 1:
[65:52] Okay. Cause I think, uh, Cannibal's Evisceration Plague might have dropped right before that. And we were jamming that record and it had, it had this like, dude, Kill Down.

Speaker 2:
[66:02] Kill is like one of my favorite records ever.

Speaker 1:
[66:05] When did Kill drop?

Speaker 2:
[66:06] That was like 2006, right?

Speaker 1:
[66:09] Yeah. I've seen Timeline is Perfect.

Speaker 2:
[66:10] Okay. Yeah. So Kill is right before Evisceration Plague.

Speaker 1:
[66:13] Timeline is Perfect. Yeah. So he was so, yeah, Eric was just on a roll right there.

Speaker 2:
[66:17] So we like learned this whole thing. I had no idea. He was like from my area. And we went to the same high school and stuff. And, um, and so, yeah, and that was my first, that was the first record I ever made. Um, uh, huge learning experience, you know, just like being in a jam room, hashing it out, doing the thing, um, you know, with a band that had been doing it for, uh, since before I was born.

Speaker 1:
[66:39] Before you're born. And, uh, Yeah, Jay, before you're born, brother.

Speaker 2:
[66:42] You know, so, and, and that's, that's also kind of a thing is like, you know, since I was in like high school, like I said, going back to when I approached, like the senior in my high school, this like intimidating dude on the, on the wrestling team, I've always just kind of wanted to like play up. And that was, that was actually advice I got as a hockey player, like play with people who are better than you.

Speaker 1:
[67:03] Oh, dude, 100%.

Speaker 2:
[67:04] Because it will push you into that fight or flight. Like I will push myself to keep pace with people who are better than me, who have been doing this longer than me. I just absorb all of that knowledge and experience and stuff and try to gleam something for myself. And so I always took that into, you know, say the experience with Madball or against me or Slipknot or whatever. That's kind of been like, you know, I've been like the youngest guy in any band usually by like 15, 20 years or so. So, and I always felt like that was a key part in, you know, it was necessary for me to just apply myself 100% because in my eyes, that was the only way I would survive. So, and that speaks to the Bruce experience as well. These guys are 50 years, 40 years older than me, you know? So, it's like, I feel like, you know, you determine, you know, playing up, you got to play up. You got to play with people who are, you know, going to push you and your abilities and stuff. And that's kind of how I always looked at like these situations and it led to, yeah, this record, Empire.

Speaker 1:
[68:11] What's your big takeaway from this record?

Speaker 2:
[68:14] Who? First record. Man.

Speaker 1:
[68:18] Established hardcore band.

Speaker 2:
[68:19] It's so crazy seeing it. I haven't seen this in a long time.

Speaker 1:
[68:23] The name's on there, dude. Eric Rutan, produced by Eric Rutan and Madball.

Speaker 2:
[68:26] Yeah. What do I take away from this record? Well, I think for myself, it being like, much like we're talking about my first live experiences and just understanding what it takes to really apply yourself and respect the process, respect what it is you're creating because I'm sure you relate that it's like, at a certain level, when you're doing this stuff and you are investing your soul in it, this is your soul music and that's something to be respected, that's sacred, and I've always considered that. In whatever music it is that I'm making, it's to be respected as something sacred. So when it came time to be like, these guys are entrusting me. Whoa, I've never seen that version of it. Wait, pull that up again. Is that like a special edition version? I've never seen that.

Speaker 1:
[69:17] It's a special-

Speaker 2:
[69:18] Reissue?

Speaker 1:
[69:19] It looks like there's multiple reissues.

Speaker 2:
[69:21] I need to get a copy of that. That looks cool.

Speaker 1:
[69:23] You get vinyl, right?

Speaker 2:
[69:24] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[69:25] Okay, you gotta get the vinyl.

Speaker 2:
[69:26] Okay, I wanna get that. I've never seen that.

Speaker 1:
[69:28] Your name's on there somewhere, so.

Speaker 2:
[69:30] Yeah, so this was my first crack at actually, I did like recordings with Sadie Mae and with my high school bands and stuff, which is actually a funny story with that. My first recording experience, I don't know what I'm doing. You know, I'm trying my best, but like.

Speaker 1:
[69:47] The magic to it, though.

Speaker 2:
[69:48] Well, so, you know, it's my first time, like I'm playing along to my guitar player who's in the other room and I feel so disconnected. I have like headphones that I can't really hear what's going on. So I'm kind of, I was playing a little softer than I normally would and the guy, and the guy that we, the friend that we had record us, he said in the headphones that I never, ever, ever forgot this. He goes, he just goes, is that as hard as you're gonna hit? And I was just like, mother, like internally, I'm like, what, you know? And so I took that as like a lifelong challenge. I probably feel like I always have this, like that guy getting on the intercom going, is that as hard as you're gonna hit? And being like, I will now throw down.

Speaker 1:
[70:31] And are you, are you gonna not suck?

Speaker 2:
[70:33] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Can you stop sucking really quick? That'd be cool. But so, you know, this was like my first real experience with it. So like knowing that like to me, like the stakes were, you know, all or nothing. I have to treat this like this is, you know, the last record I'll ever make. And so with that, it's like, you know, to me, I haven't listened to it in a long time, but I feel like it's me pushing my abilities at the time. And yeah, you know, I'm proud of it in the way that I like, I'm a kid.

Speaker 1:
[71:11] Oh my God.

Speaker 2:
[71:12] You know, so, and to be, you know, legendary Madball with, you know, all the respect in the world to what Freddie has created with that, and it was actually really cool. Like, you know, obviously we, it wasn't the right fit. I felt it wasn't the right fit. And it was, and I was just like, you know what? Like I learned a lot, did this record, really excited about that. But I think I'm gonna, I want to find where I fit in, you know, in music. I'm just feeling it's not this. That's okay. And so Freddie and I actually reconnected last year, Suicidal Tendencies. We were on the Metallica tour, which was like the most insane, incredible experience. And in between some of the Metallica dates, we played the Black and Blue Bowl, which is kind of like Madball, Freddie very much. They run this festival in New York. So when we roll up and I get to see Freddie and we get to like, hug and see each other first time in like 15 years, something like that. Very cool moment because it's like, our lives have, I kind of went this way and they've gone this way, but to come back together and hang and catch up, and that was really, really nice.

Speaker 1:
[72:27] That's good to hear, man.

Speaker 2:
[72:29] Yeah, but so that was like, I look at my time in Madball as such a primordial version of these things that I was getting myself on the track and reaching out to a hand that was reaching out to me of like, hey, we need a drummer, can you do this? And I'm like, yes, I'm totally into this. And so lots of energy captured in that. And yeah, I want to listen to it again. I haven't listened to it in 15 years, but.

Speaker 1:
[73:01] It's going to sound so different to you now.

Speaker 2:
[73:02] It might, yeah. But you know, it's like to hear, are you playing it for us now?

Speaker 1:
[73:14] That's Jay Weinberg.

Speaker 2:
[73:15] And the Eric Rutan kind of fullness.

Speaker 1:
[73:22] It makes so much sense, all of the tones.

Speaker 2:
[73:24] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[73:25] Since he said that, I'm like, oh, makes sense.

Speaker 2:
[73:27] Yeah, exactly. I hate to ask, can I run and use the bathroom really quick? Okay, cool.

Speaker 1:
[73:33] Pause.

Speaker 2:
[73:34] Cool, we're into so much great stuff, but let's keep this up, because we'll know where to go.

Speaker 1:
[73:38] Oh, please. I'm also recently sober, and my brain is literally working way better.

Speaker 2:
[73:45] Congratulations.

Speaker 1:
[73:45] It's crazy. I don't know. Good for you. Yeah, probably five weeks in now.

Speaker 2:
[73:49] Congratulations, man.

Speaker 1:
[73:50] So weird. Good for you. This is actually a moment for me. Like, I'm really like, I'm hanging out with Jay. I could really, I'm internalizing what you're saying more. Great. So it's all kind of happening real time. The past three guests, I've been like, oh, that's different.

Speaker 2:
[74:04] Congrats.

Speaker 1:
[74:05] It's cool.

Speaker 2:
[74:06] That's really good.

Speaker 1:
[74:06] Good to hear. And the lady's like, you're looking good.

Speaker 2:
[74:10] Yeah, man.

Speaker 1:
[74:10] So that's a nice, positive reinforcement.

Speaker 2:
[74:13] I love that.

Speaker 1:
[74:13] Yeah. Well, we are, we are back.

Speaker 2:
[74:15] We're back.

Speaker 1:
[74:15] Okay.

Speaker 2:
[74:16] P break.

Speaker 1:
[74:16] P break. Jay is empty. So, all right, we're talking about Madball.

Speaker 2:
[74:21] Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we've, we've, you know, yeah, amazing experience just seeing that. I haven't seen, and I got to get that, that new edition of that record. Well, yeah, because how many years? 15, 16 years now.

Speaker 1:
[74:35] Is that 16 years ago, dude?

Speaker 2:
[74:38] Oh my God, I'm old.

Speaker 1:
[74:39] It's how it is, dude.

Speaker 2:
[74:40] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[74:41] The time, like the years just fly by, brother.

Speaker 2:
[74:42] Like you said when we started, you're like, I thought you were like 40. I thought, yeah. I feel it. I feel it.

Speaker 1:
[74:47] No, I saw it. I'm like, dude, 1990, no.

Speaker 2:
[74:50] Yeah. No, I was 19 when we made that record.

Speaker 1:
[74:53] You're 19.

Speaker 2:
[74:54] Yeah. When did you make your first record? Or how old were you?

Speaker 1:
[74:58] I want to say 1920, at Cleansing 2007. I'm 40 now.

Speaker 2:
[75:03] There you go.

Speaker 1:
[75:03] So it might have been 1920. Not knowing what you're doing. I always tell people, I try to go back to that, which is what I do here. It's like I try to empty the brain, try to not know what's happening because that's kind of where magic happens. Yeah, sure. Not knowing what you're doing on that record. You will capture something that you really can't ever do again.

Speaker 2:
[75:22] Yep.

Speaker 1:
[75:23] Because then you know too much.

Speaker 2:
[75:24] You know what's funny? So in the month of January this year alone, I made five albums and I was talking with a friend of mine who were making an album together, this new thing that we're working on. I'm really excited about it. But what's it called? It has a name, but I can't.

Speaker 1:
[75:42] Okay.

Speaker 2:
[75:43] I can't. We're so early days with it. It's just like we're discovering what it is. Both of us are just like, okay, so let's discover what this is together. A friend of mine had a lot of songs and I'm like, I'm honored to play on this. Let's discover what this is. That's where we're at with it right now. But we were having a funny conversation as I'm tracking drums and stuff, and we just get to joking. I'm like, isn't it funny how what we're recording now, if we go on and play this stuff a million times or whatever, this is the worst version it will be, and this is what we're laying to tape. In a funny way of just talking about how it's like, when you go in to make a record, unless you approach it in the way like Clutch does, where Clutch, they play their stuff live to feel out how exactly they want to be laying it down in the studio. So they'll take a song that they've written, test it out on the road, and then they'll do a tour to the studio playing all this material, and then go in and track that album because of the way- Be yourself. Exactly, because of the way these songs, okay, this is how I want to play this live or whatever, this is how this is feeling better. Rather than making those decisions before you ever hit a stage, which is more so how modern, it's more so how we do things. It's like we work on it in private, we release it to the world, and then we play it live for the first time. But so that's at least relative to that other school of thought that's backwards. You're setting it in stone before you've ever had this thing have a life of itself on a stage. To me, that's where music, and I'm sure you feel the same way, that's where our music comes alive is when we do it in that environment. So we were just joking, I was like, this is so great and this is the worst it's ever going to sound.

Speaker 1:
[77:30] Yeah, thank God man, I thought it sucked.

Speaker 2:
[77:33] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[77:33] Oh my goodness. So what have you been doing new musically? Because I saw that you're doing a few things. Can you talk about you're doing a record with Fuming Mouth? Shout out to Mark.

Speaker 2:
[77:46] Yeah, relative to if this is... Yeah, if this is... When is this going to drop?

Speaker 1:
[77:52] This Monday.

Speaker 2:
[77:53] This Monday? Oh, shit. Okay.

Speaker 1:
[77:57] This freaking Monday, dude.

Speaker 2:
[77:58] Oh my gosh. Okay, well, so Mark, don't be mad. Yeah, well, so I am working on a lot of things. When I found out that my wife and I are expecting our first child in a month now, but when we're faced with that reality, back in October, I was kind of just like, whoa, okay, I have like all this stuff on my kind of creative checklist in a way that I kind of view it as like creative spring cleaning in a way, you know, like I'm sure, you know, like we both have had, you know, a running checklist of like, I've got this song I've been working on forever. And I'm like, I want to get it across the finish line, but I've just been toiling at it for years and whatever. It's just kind of some of those things that I've been, I've been wanting to commit considerable time and energy to make those a reality. So what that's kind of looked like for me is like, I have all this material and you know, the classic thing when we're on tour and we meet friends and we're like, oh, we should start like a side project together and then it never happens. But I was like, I could approach this in a way where this is like less pressure. We're not starting a whole new thing, but let's like, I have a song that I, you know, I'm playing everything on it, all the instruments, but I want my friend George Clarke from Deaf Heaven. Like this would be like this song, I just feel like you would be great on this. And so I send it to George and George is like, I'll sing on it. And so I'm like, okay, like let's make this like a real song, not starting a band, you know, but just like let's do one song. Excuse me. And so that became a song called Sandstone. And I was kind of like, you know, thinking about what I'm doing and I'm like, I'm not starting a band like this and I'm not going out. You know, I do things on my own, like drum clinics and stuff, like solo performances of clinics and stuff, but it's not like I'm starting like the Jay Weinberg solo band. Like that's not, you know, what my interests are with this, but I have all this material that I've been working on for a long time that I'm like, okay, I'll put like, I'll put my name behind this. And I feel strongly about it. It comes from my heart is what I've been working on for a long time. And like we're talking about, having started on guitar, I'm using, that's how I write. And so I'm like, you know what, I will find an avenue for me where I can record all this stuff and play all the instruments and collaborate with different friends. Because it does stem from different inspirations that I feel like is kind of eclectic in nature, but like not unfocused in a way, because it dips into my inspirations from bands like Neurosis and My Bloody Valentine and Interpol and, you know, Quicksand and Here and There. And so, you know, stuff like that. So Sandstone was a song that I worked on with George that I released in November. And then a song that I put out just a couple weeks ago or a month ago called Drone Operator, which is a song that I collaborated with, Friends Nowhere to Run, which is Jamie and Shade from the band Code Orange. They have their project Nowhere to Run is unbelievable in its scope and in its direction. It does many things. And I was like, you guys are the people, like this is the kind of skeleton of what I've got going on. Let's put our minds on this together. Not start a band, but like, let's start a thing together where we do this one song. And that's what Drone Operator is.

Speaker 1:
[81:39] Oh, okay.

Speaker 2:
[81:40] Nice. And I've, you know, as I've also got, so I'm talking about this record that I can't exactly name just yet, but like I did that. We'll get to Fuming Mouth in a second. But like I've had a lot of stuff and I paint and I've wanted to treat all these songs as a way that I can just do all of this stuff. But just even from like a time management, as I'm like getting ready to have my first child and stuff, to get this stuff across the finish line.

Speaker 1:
[82:09] It's important.

Speaker 2:
[82:09] I want to collaborate with my friends, my community, people I've always wanted to work with. I just haven't had the time to commit to making art in the way that I wanted to for this. So I saw it as an opportunity and I hit up my friend Paul Romano, who you might know his artwork, his Gracie album covers from Macedon and Trivium, and Dalek, and Withered, and amazing bands that he's created these visual identities for. Paul and I are friends and we talk art and I visited him and his family. So I'm like, hey, I just literally, I'm under the gun with many projects and getting ready to be a father for the first time. I'd like to extend this collaborative nature of this project. That's kind of like my thing, but I want to do it with all these people. Would you take on doing, it was just for the first single actually. And then I shared with him all these other things because it's part of a greater body of work that I intend to get out towards the end of this year if I can try to get that done. He was like, I like what you're doing here and I want to create a visual character for this. It won't just be for Sandstone, it will be for Drone Operator and these other collaborations that are happening. And so, yeah, I'm honored in taking on this collaborative thing. I'm planning to release the next song if I can make it by early May because I'm kind of like, I'm releasing this stuff kind of as it goes. Like it's all happening now. And yeah, and I'm kind of like the world. I'm kind of like, yeah, I can just like do this, you know, in the world today. You can just do the stuff yourself and get it out there. So I'm very excited about that. But then, well, I'm going to be, I'm going to be purposely tight-lipped about, you know, certain aspects of other projects because I'm just like, I'm in this creative kind of zone where I feel like creativity begets creativity and the more and more you just kind of are active in working those creative muscles, the more and more that kind of builds into something that like, you can look back on and be proud of in a body of work that you're stoked on. That has now become more things. And I'm kind of just in a phase of my life where I'm like, I'm into taking on these things. Like I said, like, you know, January this year was like the busiest I've ever been. And like being a studio rat really for like, kind of the first time in my life where I'm like, really spending considerable more considerable time with many projects in the studio and just being like, I am loving this and and all projects that have different creative voices. Like for instance, the next song I'll release under my own name doesn't even have any drums on it.

Speaker 1:
[85:10] Oh, wow.

Speaker 2:
[85:11] You know, and it's the first time I'm singing on something.

Speaker 1:
[85:14] Are you singing on something?

Speaker 2:
[85:15] Yeah. So, you know, it's just like interesting ways of like, you know, it's what's feeling inspired in this moment. And so take it back to last year. I'm between legs of the Metallica Tour and I get an email from a guy I don't know. And he's like, hey, I've got, you know, this is who I am. I've got this band and we're recording an album with Kurt Ballou at God City Studios. I don't even know, like, say less. Like that's, you know, one of my heroes and all of the records I've like ever made. I usually, you know, when I'm meeting with a producer, I often, they're, you know, like, what kind of records, like drum sound wise, like do you dig? And I'm like, Kurt stuff, like, you know, like these are my favorite sounding records, Nails and Converge.

Speaker 1:
[86:11] We're supposed to have Kurt here next month. Hopefully.

Speaker 2:
[86:13] Kurt's the best.

Speaker 1:
[86:14] He's awesome.

Speaker 2:
[86:15] So somebody's like, I want to ask, would you be down to play drums on a new record? And I'm like, oh my God, yes. Like I actually, I have a week in between, you know, a week or two in between legs of this Metallica tour. I can come up and meet with you. I can, you know, we'll jam out, you know, let's get a rehearsal space. I can like learn this material. We'll get into a room and go in and record this album. And we recorded an album in just a few days. And it's like for myself, it's like it's like one of my favorite things I've like ever been a part of. It came together really quickly. But he and I, you never, you ever just like meet people who you're just like, you just connect on a level that, like things just flow like incredibly well. We have a lot of the same interests, a lot of the same touchstones and references. And one of the first things that we spoke about as I'm like kind of getting like, okay, so like this is the project and stuff. I hear a song and I'm like, dude, that song like, is that the Motorhead Stay Clean beat? Like that. And I'm like, that's my favorite Motorhead song. He's like, it is the Stay Clean beat. I'm like, that's about like a death metal song.

Speaker 1:
[87:45] And I'm like, fuck dude, like yes.

Speaker 2:
[87:48] You know, like I'm like, this is so like, you know, I'm loving this. And so that is something that took place last year. And I think we'll probably be. Yeah, there's some pictures of us. Oh, so that record, so that picture, that's me, that's Mark Whalen of Fuming Mouth, Zach Weeks of God City Studio, awesome producer, and Connor Sullivan, who goes by Argus. And do we have time for another tangent of things? All right, this is what we're doing.

Speaker 1:
[88:17] My brain is locked in for however long, dude.

Speaker 2:
[88:19] Wait, wait, wait, go back, go back, go back to.

Speaker 1:
[88:21] I'm locked in, dude. There we go.

Speaker 2:
[88:22] Okay. So Connor and I, Connor lives in Nashville. I live in Nashville and we met, I moved to town like 11 years ago and we met and I was instantly struck by this guy. It's like this kid doing wild modular synthesizer, noise machine, making just fucked up sound with this table of pedals and crazy stuff. He's the guy on the right there. So in the last two years or so, I've become friends with a band called King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard. Do you know them?

Speaker 1:
[88:53] No.

Speaker 2:
[88:53] From Australia. Okay, I'm going to send you all their stuff. They're the most inspiring band I've ever seen.

Speaker 1:
[89:02] Australian band.

Speaker 2:
[89:03] Yeah, Australia. They're from Australia. They release like three albums a year. They're incredibly prolific. They are so in touch with what they do. It's one thing when you have a band that plays all styles, but isn't a master of any of them. King Gizzard can play any style of music masterfully. It is the most insane thing I've ever seen. I was a little bit intimidated to where my entry point was to the band because I'm like, oh my God, this band has a million albums. They've been a band for like 10 years, but they have 20 something albums. Where's my on-ramp to this band? But it was really cool. Cavs, who's now like my bro, their drummer. I was on tour in Australia a couple of years ago with the band Infectious Grooves, which shares members with suicidal tendencies. And Cavs came out to a show with his dad and we're hanging out. And I'm like, yeah, like King Gizzard. I'm so stoked. I got to get into you guys. I see your name and I see the records. I just don't know where my on-ramp is to you guys. And so he's like, okay, we're coming on tour in the States. Come out and check it out. I'm like, okay. So they come to Nashville and a couple of days beforehand, Cavs texted me, he's like, bro, we're going to be in Nashville. You should get up on stage and rip a drum solo or something.

Speaker 1:
[90:27] Oh my goodness.

Speaker 2:
[90:28] I was like, I don't know if that seems intrusive. And I don't want to spoil the fun and just be like, hey everybody. That's not my style. But I was like, I'll play a song with you guys. That could make more contextual sense. And he's like, yo, really? Awesome. So I learned one of their songs and I met the guys at the show. And we played a song in Nashville. Super fun. And we all became very, very quick friends. And this is back in like 2024. And it was like a week before my birthday. And they're like, oh, we're playing Red Rocks on September 8th, which happens to be on your birthday. And my wife is like, we should go out to Red Rocks and see King Gizzard for your birthday. And they were like, dude, come out for your birthday. Like learn a couple more songs. And we'll do it again and we'll run it back. And I was like, okay, I guess I'm going to Red Rocks and I'll play a couple of tunes with you guys. Sure, let's do this. And so we're just stoked. And so we go and they played three shows in two days. And their shows are also three hours long, you know?

Speaker 1:
[91:36] What the?

Speaker 2:
[91:36] And they play, I mean, with that amount of songs, you have such a catalog that you're just like, they have their whole like, they have an archive of like all their songs and like, making sure they don't repeat songs that they played either the night before or in that same city and stuff. It's like incredible. The thought and attention that goes into that. Anyway, so we're there to see a couple of their shows at Red Rocks and they had gone to a festival site outside in, outside Denver in Buena Vista, Colorado. Beautiful scenery and everything. They're going to start their own festival called Field of Vision. Just to name one of their songs. I was hanging out at the show and they had just come back from this checking out this festival site where they're like, yeah, next year we're going to do our own festival here. They're like, you got to play it. I'm like, oh yeah, totally. But I don't have a band that can play it like I don't have a project. So I'm working on all this stuff, Sandstone, Drone Operator and stuff. I'm still kind of putting these things together. But then I thought they were joking. And it comes to a couple months before the festival. And they announced it. They're like, hey, so we're announcing you. What are you doing for the festival? And I was like, I didn't know you guys were for real. Like, okay, I got to figure out something. Because just like Bruce, when he's like, this is the deal, it's kind of like, yes. The answer is yes. Whatever the question is, the answer is yes. And that's also kind of like an important, you know, in all these kinds of things, it's like, that's sort of a philosophy that I like to kind of keep in the back of my head. It's just like, the answer is yes. What's the question? Because it's just like, when you get an opportunity, like King Gizzard, this amazing, you know, once in a generation band, to be like, would you play at our festival? It's like, I don't have it in me to say no. Even though I don't have a project to do it with, I'll figure it out. And so I hit up my buddy Connor Argus, and he and I, I'm like, okay, this is what we're gonna do. We're gonna take your noise stuff, I'll make it like kind of my own. And in fact, we got Mark Whalen of Fuming Mouth to like riff Lord Mark Whalen, recording riffs on top of it. And I'm like, fuck yes. Like this is taking what I love about Connor's stuff, and now we're making it these like Godflesh, dancey sort of dance club, but like grimy, gritty death sort of deal. And so I took like Argus material did that. He took my material that I'm putting out under my own name. He made it more Argus style, a little more noisy and modular synthy and stuff. And then we got together at my house because we had like a month or two left and I was still on the Metallica tour at the time.

Speaker 1:
[94:31] Oh my goodness.

Speaker 2:
[94:32] And so I get home and I'm like, okay, now let's come up with like 20 minutes of like original stuff between you and me. And so that picture that you had up a moment ago, the four of us in the studio, we went to God City and recorded. We did this performance because it was just going to be one show at Field of Vision for this project. We just made this project for one show. And when we were playing, we were just like, and you know, there's a video of it on YouTube. We were just like, we should do this. Like this should be, we should not just have this be for only this one show. So we're, so we gave the project a name called Portraits of an Apparition and went up to God City this January. That was one of the records that I was working on. And yeah, so that was the four of us making the new portraits album that we'll try to see if we can have it out by like this summer or something. There's us.

Speaker 1:
[95:22] Okay, cool.

Speaker 2:
[95:22] Yeah, we're playing a couple shows in the UK later in September. But so that relationship started out of like Mark asking me to contribute to this album. So be on the lookout. We got some good stuff coming down the pipeline. All right, cool. I'm really, really excited. And yeah, these are all projects that it's like they're eclectic in nature, but it allows me to kind of dip my toe into things that it's like I've never done before. But that's just like incredibly freeing and exciting. And yeah, so that's like what we're up to. I believe it'll probably start making a little more noise in about a month or so. Okay, cool. So we'll see.

Speaker 1:
[96:06] Nice. And right before this ends, we're going to tell people where do you want people to go?

Speaker 2:
[96:12] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[96:13] Because it seems like there's going to be a few places where you want people to go.

Speaker 2:
[96:15] Yeah. I have a website and you can find stuff on there. We all have a website, right?

Speaker 1:
[96:22] Dude, Suicide Silence does not have a website. And that's the first thing we're going to do with our marketing money.

Speaker 2:
[96:27] Have you never had a website?

Speaker 1:
[96:28] No, it's been years, dude. I've been telling the guys, we need a website, but we're going to take that central media money. Hey, we're going to take a grand out and make a sick website.

Speaker 2:
[96:37] Dude, this internet thing is going to be huge. Dude, the internet is mega.

Speaker 1:
[96:43] Me and Jay have been posting on Facebook and that shit is popping.

Speaker 2:
[96:46] Yeah, man. You just wait. You just wait. It's going to be next level.

Speaker 1:
[96:51] It's wild, man. So how do we go from Madball to Against Me? Sure.

Speaker 2:
[97:00] Okay.

Speaker 1:
[97:00] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[97:01] Well, similar to say like The Bouncing Souls and these bands that I started to learn about at an early age, Against Me was in that fold of bands. You're Bouncing Souls, Hotwater Music, Against Me, Alkaline Trio. There was a nexus of the bands who were really in a flow of doing a lot of stuff together. They'd often be playing shows together and stuff. And so that was a whole community. So as I was getting close to The Bouncing Souls, they were on tour with Against Me, probably when I was younger and I saw them, became an instant fan. I loved what they were doing back in 2004, maybe three or four. And I got to be friends with their bass player, Andrew, who was always just like the friendliest, nicest, jovial dude. You saw him on stage, he was in the center of the stage just like doing his thing, had so much energy and I really connected to that. And so we struck up a friendship. And shortly after I had left Madball, they had a few remaining shows on their schedule that Andrew hit me up. He was like, hey, if you're free now, we have a couple of shows and I'd been a fan. And we would play on occasion. I'd sit in on a song and stuff similar to The Bouncing Souls thing. They needed somebody for these three shows. That was all it was going to be. And I got down and similar to that experience I was talking about with The Souls of like, hey, can we play one, two, 40 songs? You know, and just like as a fan, I'm just kind of like, I never saw you play this song. Can we play this song and stuff? Like, you know, just excited and stuff. And so I kind of came to these three shows with all that like, I'm gonna get all my fan boy, you know, energy out here and play as much as I can, you know, while we have these three shows that we'll do together. And then that just kind of, we played one rehearsal together. And then it was just kind of the vibe like, do you want to just join the band? And that was really, it was like the next morning and that was really it, you know? And with that, like, so I was still, like we were talking about with Madball, I was still in school and kind of doing everything at the same time. And my school was actually really cool. I don't think I would have been able to do it if it was like a larger school, because they would have been like, if you're not gonna be at school, like you have to fuck off. Like you're not, like you can't be a student here if you're just gonna be on tour all the time.

Speaker 1:
[99:47] Anything about that.

Speaker 2:
[99:48] But they were really cool in like letting me, instead of having to be on campus at like a, yeah, there we go. Instead of having to be on campus, like doing an exam or something, I could write an essay to demonstrate my understanding of like any subject or whatever. So I was doing that all the time throughout the E Street Band, throughout Madball, and then through it with Against Me, we were on tour for like nine months in 2011. Like nearly like straight, it was nice. Because I mean, for me, I'm 20 years old. I'm like, this is everything. Like, you know, like I'm talking about the Madball tour. I'm like, I just like, you know, fuck my apartment. I don't want to be home. I just want to be gone forever on tour. And luckily, and luckily this band obviously, you know, they're 15 years older than me, but like they were still in that moment. And so like, my interest in that was just like, boom, we are just out. And so we went, you know, did a month and a half long headlining tour into a straight into a month and a half opening for Dropkick Murphy's straight to, you know, Europe. And then we're back and we are right on the Warp Tour. And then right after the Warp Tour, we're doing a tour with Blink 182 across Canada and all this stuff, like, you know, just full on, you've done that stuff, you know, it's full on. And I was, you know, 20 and just like, absolutely like, yes. And in fact, you might get a kick out of this. One of my favorite exercises that we did was for Warp Tour, where you only get 30, 40 minutes to play. We were like, we set it as a challenge for ourselves, that there would be literally no break in the music. So that the last downbeat of any song is the first downbeat of the next song all the time. So it is just you get on stage and you just strangle hold the audience until you're done. It is one song. So we were like, okay, so what song can go into what? How do we transition into this? So we created a set list or a pool of songs, and we would figure out that's the way it was. Warp Tour, there was no speaking, no nothing. It is just one song, boom, or one song comprised of 15 songs.

Speaker 1:
[102:04] How was that?

Speaker 2:
[102:05] It was fucking insane and amazing, but like a challenge. You're playing, you guys have done Warp Tour and stuff, right? Yeah, so like the heat and everybody, it was like the great equalizer that everyone is just in it, in the heat, in the gnarliness, and you never know what time you're gonna play. You might be playing at 10 in the morning or you might be playing, whatever.

Speaker 1:
[102:27] Get some bad lucks and stuff.

Speaker 2:
[102:29] Yeah, so this is one of those shows that we're playing song after song after song and they all connect. And that actually, so then we went on to playing headlining shows from the Warped Tour shows. So, okay, now we have an hour and a half that we're playing. Let's apply the same philosophy.

Speaker 1:
[102:44] Oh, that's stupid.

Speaker 2:
[102:45] And so it was insane and totally sadistic but enjoyable from the aspect of you're pushing your limits, you're pushing your energy and stuff. So those were endurance feats for sure, but very enjoyable, but yeah, also too much.

Speaker 1:
[103:08] Explain this while you're not in the band anymore. That would fucking piss me off. But where do you tune?

Speaker 2:
[103:15] It's all the same tuning, but you can, there's a drum intro for one song, so you can switch out guitars and stuff. And that was baked in there. You have to be logistic about it, you have to have the logistics about it and whatever. But yeah, so that was, there was so much activity. And then it was just another one of the situations of like, I enjoyed this, but I think I'm ready to, honestly, I wanted to finish my school because at that time, like I said, being on tour for nine months out of the year, there was a moment, this is a funny story. There was a moment where I was doing one of these like online tests just so I could be a student, and still be on tour at the same time. I was doing an online test on a Blackberry to show you how old I am. I was doing a test and we were driving from, we had played in El Paso and we were driving, our next show is at Chain Reaction in Anaheim.

Speaker 1:
[104:16] Oh sick.

Speaker 2:
[104:17] So we're doing this drive and you've done those drives from El Paso to Anaheim or something where you're in, you're just in the desert and there's no cell service or whatever. It was my first time doing that. And I was doing this thing, sunk like four or five hours into doing an online exam on my BlackBerry, just typing out answers super. And it's just painstaking, but I'm just getting it done. And then I went to click Submit and I had lost Internet while we were driving in the desert, and it lost my five hours of work, just went away. And you ever see that movie Little Miss Sunshine, when the young teenager realizes he wants to be in the Air Force, but then he does his test and he realizes he's colorblind. And so he can't, like you can't be in the Air Force if you're colorblind or whatever. And he has like a freak out moment. I had an internal like, I've reached my breaking point. I can't, and it was one of those things, much like hockey and Little Miss Sunshine.

Speaker 1:
[105:16] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[105:17] So that's against me on tour. But so I hit a breaking point similar to my crossroads that I had with hockey and music. I was like, you know, the Ron Swanson philosophy, like don't half-ass two things, whole-ass one thing.

Speaker 1:
[105:39] Oh, wow.

Speaker 2:
[105:40] And I was like-

Speaker 1:
[105:41] I never heard that.

Speaker 2:
[105:41] Yeah, it's a good, good advice.

Speaker 1:
[105:43] That's cool.

Speaker 2:
[105:44] And so I got to the parking lot of Chain Reaction and I called my school. I was like, this is what happened. I can't do this anymore. I can't- I finally- it was after like two and a half years of being a student. I was like, I can't balance this anymore. Something's got to break and it's school for me. I need to- I need to be committed to this tour to be- if I'm going to do this, I got to commit myself. And so this is my choice and I hope you guys understand. And they're like, okay, well, you know, let us know if you ever want to come back and we'll have that conversation. And so it just kind of got to this point in my life where I was like, you know what, I'm ready to go back. I want to finish school. And I did- I had like a year and a half left. And so I was like, I'm going to come off the road. I'm going to go back to school, finish this because that was important to me. And there's the show that we played at Chain. Oh my God. Oh my God. RIP Chain Reaction.

Speaker 1:
[106:36] I know. Yeah, it's sad man.

Speaker 2:
[106:38] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[106:39] I think someone tried to sue the venue. Parents.

Speaker 2:
[106:42] As happens.

Speaker 1:
[106:43] Welcome parents.

Speaker 2:
[106:44] But so anyway, so I go back to school and I wanted to take like a course overload. So I took more courses than I usually would have because now I'm kind of behind the eight ball. I had taken a year off from school, year and a half off because we were just on tour so much. And but I was able to just like apply myself to that. Now that felt important. Now I want to apply myself to school. And so I did that. And then the day that I submitted my final thing, this is in December of 2013, is when I finished up school because I went back for like a year. In between that, I did the Kaveller attack tour that we were talking about.

Speaker 1:
[107:28] Oh yeah.

Speaker 2:
[107:29] I had just finished like a semester of school and was like, boom, I can do this tour. I was so excited. It was the first tour I had done since leaving against me. And it really like, to this day, those guys are like some of my best friends. And we always talk about like, man, that was like, it's probably the most fun I've ever had on tour, was with those guys. So we remain very close friends. And there's me and Jettil, the drummer that, he hurt his arm. And that was the night we met. I had just flown out. I'd literally just flown out, learned their whole show on the flight. And I meet him and he's like, hey, I got to go back home. I got to go to the doctor. He's like, you're going to play drums tonight. I'm going to do the lights. And so we're at El Corazon in Seattle. And he's doing all the lights and stuff. And he's stoked. But so that was the first tour that I had done after Against Me. And it just revitalized my love for playing and meeting these guys and the high pressure of learning this thing right away and getting out there. It was so cool. And so we did that. But then after that tour, I went back to school, finished up. And the day I submitted my final requirement for school was in December of 2013, is when I got asked to play with Slipknot.

Speaker 1:
[108:51] Are you serious? That's an insane timeline.

Speaker 2:
[108:54] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[108:55] Where were you? Do you remember when you heard the news about Joey?

Speaker 2:
[108:59] Yeah, it was after our first jam session together.

Speaker 1:
[109:03] Oh, man.

Speaker 2:
[109:05] Yeah, it was the next day that that was announced.

Speaker 1:
[109:10] I didn't know that.

Speaker 2:
[109:11] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[109:11] Oh, fuck, dude. Are the rumors true? You're not told who you're jamming with. You literally get the contact and you're in a room.

Speaker 2:
[109:24] That's correct.

Speaker 1:
[109:27] What are you thinking?

Speaker 2:
[109:28] Well, like we're talking about bouncing souls, and against me, and my fandom of just like, this is how I taught myself to do this.

Speaker 1:
[109:41] You said yes, without-

Speaker 2:
[109:42] Yeah. Well, as the story goes, and there are many it's been written about, I got a phone call that was cryptic in nature, but obviously, as you're even speaking to it, it's like this is a big change. Understandably, the stakes around that information are high, and so someone in my position receiving an invitation based on this change, there's a lot of trust with no information, that you just have to be willing to jump down a rabbit hole of like, we can't tell you what this is about, but can you please come and join us for a thing? And that's it. That's all the information that I had. So as I entered a room and understood what was happening, I had to put on, because I had had similar experiences before, obviously where I had known ahead of time what I was like, against me, hey, we got a couple of shows, can you play with me? Can we play with us? And I'm like, oh my God, I know all this stuff. I taught myself how to play drums, playing along these songs. Can we play this? Can we play that? Can we play this record in full right now? That sort of stuff. That's how I, I think at the core of many things in my life, I think a lot of it stems and a lot of people listening to this and yourself probably relate of like we are fans first. Like that's what hooks us is like what gets us to this spot of wanting to participate in some way originally. So in there is just the person who remembers what it was like being a fan and that enthusiasm and wanting to pretend you're the guy doing it or whatever. You play guitar in front of your mirror, thinking you're Johnny Ramone or something. And so much like the situation with The Bouncing Souls or Against Me where I'm just like, I taught myself how to play all this stuff. I remember the muscle memory of what it was like playing all of these songs. And it was just like, and I've even heard, you ever hear Henry Rollins speak of when he was asked to audition for Black Flag? How it felt, he was like, I was an amazing story and you should listen to Rollins tell it. But he was a fan of Black Flag. And they were in the position where Des Cadena, the guitar player or the singer rather, was wanting to switch to guitar and they needed a singer. And they're like, hey, we know this crazy guy from DC, Henry. He got up on stage and sang a song. How about Henry? And he was like, you know, it was like putting a quarter into a jukebox of like, you know, this is the band that I love and here I am singing for Black Flag. And now, like, okay, you're the singer in Black Flag. And that's like how that went down. That I had, you know, had my own experiences of playing with bands, a similar sort of vibe. And you just, you just get that sense. And hearing, you know, a hero of mine, like Henry Rollins, talk about his experience, like this was my audition for Black Flag. That is sort of like, you have to just zero in on this moment. And for me, I was kind of like a, you know, what if this doesn't go beyond today? You know, I'm the first person to learn of this change. I know these guys, I know their work intimately. I've been around them all the time since I was young. And so I'm just gonna enjoy today. Enjoy the moment and then proceed to do the thing where I'm like, hey, can we play this whole record? Can we do the blah, blah, blah, blah? And just the enthusiasm and excitement. And so that's kind of, that's where, you know, that's what happened.

Speaker 1:
[113:54] Yeah, I was trying to put myself like, and you're literally in like, in your body. I'm like, what is, were you like, you're already behind the kit?

Speaker 2:
[114:04] Uh, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[114:05] And what, man, I was like, man, what is, what was Jay thinking? What was Jay feeling?

Speaker 2:
[114:11] Well, you know, at that point, I think, you know, I was 23 at the time.

Speaker 1:
[114:17] 23 years old? You're 23.

Speaker 2:
[114:21] And, but like we, you know, like we talked about at the beginning of this thing, it's like, you know, when I immersed myself into these things that I found myself as a part of, or, you know, was navigating all this, whatever. I, those experiences, that aspect of like the Bruce and E Street Band experience, intimidating, sure, and challenging and in every capacity as a drummer and a budding musician, who I've been playing drums for three years.

Speaker 1:
[114:54] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[114:54] Um, I could lead with, okay, remember that? You did, like, I could, I could talk to myself as like, you did that.

Speaker 1:
[115:03] You did that.

Speaker 2:
[115:04] You can do this.

Speaker 1:
[115:05] I do the same thing sometimes. Like, yeah, you did that. It's fine.

Speaker 2:
[115:07] You have to, you know, I think, I think there are, there are moments in our lives where, where you do have to, um, you do have to have like conversations with yourself of like, I'm ready for this, even if I don't know for certain that like, I'm ready for this. It's like you decide that you are ready for it.

Speaker 1:
[115:26] It's a decision, dude.

Speaker 2:
[115:27] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[115:28] You're not, you're never really ready for anything.

Speaker 2:
[115:29] That's right.

Speaker 1:
[115:30] I mean, yeah, like, like I'm fucking decision.

Speaker 2:
[115:32] I mean, uh, this moment that I'm in now, becoming a father for the first time, you know, in about a month, I, I've never done this before, but I'm deciding that I'm ready and I'm excited and my partner and I are excited. My wife and I are excited. And, and you do the things that you do because you're like, I've decided that I want to do this in my life and our life.

Speaker 1:
[115:55] And, and so, yeah, so, um, you know, What then and then then how?

Speaker 2:
[115:59] Exactly. Yeah. The answer is yes. What's the question?

Speaker 1:
[116:02] Yeah. From a, from an outside perspective, that you really, uh, immersed, you immersed yourself as a drummer of Slipknot. As like an outsider. We're like, we're like, it's funny. Like people think you work and you get this gig and that's where people get comfortable. But you just posted shit constantly. You're just posting shit for a fucking, almost, I mean, a decade. You're over that all of the GoPro stuff, which I actually, I should say this publicly. I actually stole it from you and I didn't even know. Is, uh, we're about to do some like live stuff. I filmed the drama and I look all cool. You know what? The first person I saw do it consistently was you, Jay.

Speaker 2:
[116:45] Interesting.

Speaker 1:
[116:46] I was like, oh, you do it. We gotta push it out there like, you know, Slipknot. You know, they're always, consistently. Are you really put yourself out there?

Speaker 2:
[116:53] Well, um, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[116:56] I just realized that.

Speaker 2:
[116:57] I had seen, so we're, you know, we're talking about my, you know, my heroes and my friend and hero, Ben Kohler of Converge. He was the first person that I saw do that. Yeah. And Ben, and Ben did this stuff. Wait, now that we have this stuff up, look up Ben Kohler Converge chest cam. It's so insane looking because he has it, he has, you know, he's like, Ben is so forward thinking in this stuff. And this is back in like, I don't know, 2009 or something. He filmed himself and I'm a huge Converge fan. He filmed himself with like, you know, a chest harness that you usually wear if you're like a cyclist or whatever. He's a drummer. And I'm like, look at this. This is nuts.

Speaker 1:
[117:37] This is a great, I don't know why more drummers don't do this.

Speaker 2:
[117:40] So, well, that was exactly my thought. So I saw this back in like 2010 or something. I'm like, Ben is, this is unbelievable. Like this is a sight line that you literally can never, you are in his head. Like this is what he sees when he's doing this. That's incredible. And like we have the technology. We have the ability to share a way of looking at, you know, you can't get seats close, that close. You know, you can only see this if it's at a club or a VFW hall or something where you can stand right next to the guy. So I always enjoyed the aspect of like, you know, within reason because, you know, things about projects like you do want to have an aura and a mystique and stuff. But I think there are ways that you can also balance that with like vantage points that you've never seen before or you, you know, are only relegated to concert DVDs and stuff. It's like, hey, this can be like a way that you are along for a ride, for a longer term sort of thing. And so I'm stoked you dig that. But Ben was like the first person that I saw do that. And then it was just like, you know, okay, what about if it's not just like one GoPro? What if I got two? What if I got five? What if I got, like, what if GoPro sent like 10 or something, you know? And like, just have fun with it. I always enjoyed that. Excuse me. I always enjoyed that. Like we're talking about, fan first. What are aspects of this that like can be immersive in that way? And honestly, for me, a lot of this, like, take it back to hockey. I used to film myself. I used to have a tripod that one of my parents would like. I was a goalie, so I'd be playing at that end for one period, that end for another period, and then that end. So they would just have the tripod and just go like that, and then that for the second period, and then that for the third period. And I would watch, I would get to watch it objectively and have game tapes to where I can be like, you know what? This, like, I want to work on this. I'm holding my glove too low or something, and I'm getting beat on that side.

Speaker 1:
[119:51] I want to correct that, and I'm using watching game tapes as a way to be like, I want to learn about my playing, I want to improve, I want to, you know, all the stuff that we do. And I'm like, as a drummer, you can like also do that. As a musician, you can also do that. So that's kind of, that was sort of where I was like using it as a way to, you know, you're in the heat of the show and you're doing your thing and you're not critically analyzing that, you're fucking ripping.

Speaker 2:
[120:18] You're ripping.

Speaker 1:
[120:19] But then I'm able to calm down and sit down and yeah, you know, you can do it in a living room and stuff.

Speaker 2:
[120:26] You can do it anywhere.

Speaker 1:
[120:27] You can do it anywhere. And to then use that as a way to be like, I'm making benchmarks for myself that it's like, you know what, I play this song that I've been playing for, you know, for seven years or whatever. I play it better today than I did seven years ago because I've been, first of all, just repeatedly doing it. I just have no choice but to just develop your chops within it. But I always felt that that was a really good tool and you see it, it's everywhere. I think we're talking about 2014-ish. I remember seeing a lot of my friends. We started all doing it around a similar time, and it was cool because we all had windows. I had windows into my peers and my friends' work that I could see. We've all got our way of showing this stuff, drum cam stuff. It was fun and it continues to be fun. I'm actually building, we're talking about this checklist that I'm getting off before our child arrives. I'm building a studio at my house where I expect to do more things. This is a god city, but similar things to this. Just showing what I'm up to like we all do. That's cool that you took something from that.

Speaker 2:
[121:48] Yeah, totally. Actually, even go further back, Alex, we never posted because then, once you post something and you start doing it again and again, that's what separates you from basically the world. Alex did that in 2009. He just got a GoPro and he put it on his fucking chest.

Speaker 1:
[122:06] There you go. Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[122:07] Now, that I think about it, he probably got it from Ben too.

Speaker 1:
[122:10] It might.

Speaker 2:
[122:10] Yeah. Because it's the same time frame. Interesting. Even though you're literally in one of the biggest metal bands in the planet, what made you do it so consistently? Because that's where, especially again, you said it earlier, like drummers, they're just like, they're just different. And to make the drummer be disciplined in something and then keep doing it, why did you do that and how?

Speaker 1:
[122:32] I think when you truly immerse yourself and it becomes wrapped up in your identity and every fabric of your being, when you make that decision to like, I'm committing myself fully and fully means fully. Everything else kind of just gives like, it all becomes secondary to that effort. You find ways to just immerse yourself further. So like, and for myself with, you know, like I've spoken about it before. So like, with joining a band that like, you know, you have a deep emotional tie to something that is very, like strikes to your core. I think it's easy to just invest yourself fully. And I think I found for myself, I was like, there is, as I would search deeper and deeper for the, you know, through the deep well of my interest in this and commitment to it, I'm like, I don't find the bottom. I find myself, you know, there is no bottom. You know, you're in a-

Speaker 2:
[123:48] There's no bottom.

Speaker 1:
[123:49] Yeah, there's, there's a limitless. When you, you know, when you take, when you take on that challenge of, of going for it, I think you find ways to just apply yourself completely. And I think, you know, there are ways that, how do I put this? There are ways that you can do that, I think, like, responsibly without, like, losing yourself completely into, like, you know, the darkness of what, of what happens to some people in, in, you know, our shared world of rock and roll. And, but when you apply yourself to the right things and for the right reasons and, and because that all starts with, like, like I said, fan first mentality, what would I want to experience if I were, if I were an observer to, or an observant? Observer? Observant? If I were an observer, if I were an observant to this, I would, I would hope it was done in such a way or whatever. Like that was always kind of like the deal I had with myself and, and as I kind of, you know, you, you do your work with your collaborators. And I think early on, you know, we had one day with each other where it was kind of like, that like excitement, like, hey, let's play all these songs that I've loved for so long and this is exciting. And then the very next day, we started working on new material together.

Speaker 2:
[125:22] The next day?

Speaker 1:
[125:22] The very next day.

Speaker 2:
[125:23] Oh my goodness.

Speaker 1:
[125:24] Because, well, you know, I mean, think of it from a practical sense. It's like, okay, great. You can play our old stuff.

Speaker 2:
[125:30] Cool.

Speaker 1:
[125:31] Can we create with you?

Speaker 2:
[125:33] Can we actually create music? Yeah, because like we're not, look, we're not just nothing.

Speaker 1:
[125:36] You know, we're looking ahead. So where do you fit within that? So I had to do the mental kind of switch for myself of moving beyond that moment of like, you know, fan first or fan only or whatever. And it's like, okay, now we're, now we're stepping over a line that is now we are co-creating a thing. And so I have to, I have to imagine in my head what is that like? What's that responsibility? What's the seriousness that I need to apply myself to this? Because obviously it's like, you know, I'm not, I'm no stranger to the seriousness of the music, the seriousness of the band, the seriousness of the moment. Like, you know, whoever was going to be in my position was going to have significant responsibility.

Speaker 2:
[126:33] Welcome to hell.

Speaker 1:
[126:35] So, so I knew that and that it would like anything that's worth doing. It's going to take all you've got and it's going to take all you've got more every day and more. Yeah, yeah. So, so knowing that, but I think that was informed by, you know, this is 20 late 2013 and I did that Bruce tour in 2009. So, we're talking four years of like I've been, you know, in Madball and against me in between there. We'd had, I'd had the experience that led me to, to understand like the feeling within my heart of knowing if I'm applying myself to the fullest. And I just had to just, you know, like anything and I still have that, you know, today of like, you know, in your heart when you are applying yourself and you know if you're not, you know, and so, so I think that's like, that's like a daily, yeah, it's like a daily thing that I think I would like just check in with myself of like, you know, I've had heroes and friends of mine use the phrase and it's very true, give everything, expect nothing. And that's very true is that you, no matter what the stakes are, you have to, it's like your responsibility as a creative person, drummer, artist, painter, fucking whatever, you have to commit yourself completely if you want the satisfaction of what could await you if you work hard at it. And that's within the context of a group and you're one part of a group. But if your contribution is meaningful or does carry significance in how one thing is going to turn out, a song, an album, a tour or whatever, you have to make sure that that thing, like you don't want to be the guy that shortchanges anybody's experience. And myself, having that deep seated fan within myself, I understand to a significant degree what responsibility means. And so I don't take that lightly. And it's something, still to this day, when suicidal and infectious asked me to play with them, it's like similar thing. It's like I understand the lineage and trajectory and the responsibility of a band I have a deep respect for. So trying to bring all that history and come to it with my own things that I've done or whatever, and finding a way to create something special with my new collaborators and stuff. And I think that's kind of been like, I don't know, I think that's like the band in high school with the kid with the fucking tire chain. Yeah, well, it's just like that's, that's when you're doing things for the right reasons because it is just, you're inspired in the moment. There's no payoff. There's no payoff but the artistic fulfillment of what you're doing in the moment. If you can maintain that as your goals, then you've achieved it. That's success. I heard a great quote from Ian McKay of Minor Threat and Fugazi, where someone asked him, how do you define success? Thinking he'd say something about, well, when we were this big or something like that, he was like, no, I was a success when I picked up a bass and I learned how to write a song. That was, I was successful in that. I consider myself a success in music before playing in front of anybody. That's true. I think when you have those things as your guideposts, and another friend of my, Thomas, who's tattooed me a lot, has shared a quote that he likes that says, you're only as good as your reference. I think that's very true that if you keep your heroes in mind, who do things for the right reasons, who lead by example. Myself, I look up to my heroes in Converge and Neurosis, and these guys that I believe are, and you go into other scenes, A Veil, and these bands that do things. Bouncing Souls certainly fit in within that, like bands that did it their own way, started their own label, made their own music, did all these things for, that was the payoff. Then you're in it for the right reasons, I think. I don't know where this is all kind of stemming off from, but it's all circling around a theme.

Speaker 2:
[131:17] I like doing the big circles. So now that you have Hindsight, Jay, is there anything that you regret or wish you did something differently?

Speaker 1:
[131:29] No, I think-

Speaker 2:
[131:30] It just kind of ended where it ended.

Speaker 1:
[131:32] Yeah, I mean, much has been said about it, but no, I don't think living with regrets, your trajectory, it is what it is. I think as long as you work your hardest, try your best and apply yourself and do things for the right reasons, I think those are the things that lead you from fulfilling moment to fulfilling moment. And I also, another friend who said something like, I really believe in just like being in tune with the things that my friends and people who I've shared creative spaces with saying, I saw something recently that a friend of mine said of like, the only thing that's consistent in life is impermanence. And if you're comfortable with that, then you stand the chance of continuing your path or whatever is meant for in that sense. So no, and with that in mind, the idea of impermanence and this and that, it's like, no, I don't regret any of these things.

Speaker 2:
[132:42] It is what it is. We actually did something similar. I had a career defining moment like last month and we did the same thing. So you went out for like a 20-minute walk with your woman. So based on my selfish question, I just did the same thing. Where like what did you think about? Like where it's like you're just walking and you're just thinking. Because that's what I did. I was making like a major career move. I'm like just walked. I just let my brain just go.

Speaker 1:
[133:09] Yeah, walk, you know, little walks are everything, man. Well, I mean, you know, not getting too personal. But like, yeah, my wife is my best friend. And we've been together since the fall of 2018. So what is that, eight coming up? We'll come up on eight years. We've been married for six years. Yeah, we that's like our thing is is, you know, we we have all of our all of our ideas, the other pictures of us on the Internet. Well, it's like, you know, we shared like, she's she's my life partner. She's my she's my my person, my other half.

Speaker 2:
[133:50] And I get it.

Speaker 1:
[133:50] And at a certain at a certain point, it's either I can't conceive of of life without this other, you know, I feel like my my brain is one half and hers is the other. And we many I often I often say it's like, I think anybody's anybody's married and out there, if they're being honest with themselves, would agree. It's like, I might be the guy out there doing the thing. But much of our life or my life as it might be seen out in the world is like our collaborative nature of how we bounce ideas off each other. She's an artist and creative person. That's how we met through, shout out to Ray Luzier from Korn. Because Ray was the first person who was like, I think you should try living in Nashville. I think you might like it. Oh, sick. This and that. I did. I took his suggestion up and he and his wife were working on a project. They needed a painting done and they asked me if I would do it. I was like, yeah, absolutely. My wife ended up being the director of the video shoot surrounding that painting, the making of that painting. That's how we met. We met in creative spaces. We began to get to know one another in a creative sense, just sharing our love for art and music and travel. We even said, it was one of our first dates, we were like, what's a crazy place that you've always wanted to go? We were both like Machu Picchu in Peru. I've always dreamed of going there. We ended up having a Slipknot tour that started in Peru. I went a couple of days early and we got to go to Machu Picchu, and that's where I proposed.

Speaker 2:
[135:30] Oh, nice, dude.

Speaker 1:
[135:32] Based on this is a conversation we had, one of our first dates, and we also said, we were like, it would be nuts to go to Antarctica or to go to all seven continents. Wouldn't that be insane? And so when I joined Suicidal, Mike asked me to start playing with the band literally a week before our first show. It was kind of a thing where he was like, hey, we need a drummer and we have shows in Japan next week. Can you be also our drummer? And I was just like, yeah, one of those things.

Speaker 2:
[136:03] The answer is yes.

Speaker 1:
[136:04] Yeah, the answer is yes. That's the question. So we had shows in Japan, and then I went to Australia with Infectious, and then we had Suicidal shows in the States. And then we went to Europe with Suicidal, and straight from Europe, we went to do a whole tour in Brazil with Suicidal. And I'm like, I am just checking off every continent in the span of three months here. Then we got an offer to play in Casablanca. And I was like, whoa, or yeah, in Morocco. And all of us were just like, oh my God, yes, that'll be so sick. None of us had played in Africa. I never thought I'd be able to play in Africa. And I'm like, and so I'm like, wait, this is six continents. Like there's only one other continent to go to. So my wife and I talking about these dreams and we don't have, it's just the two of us, we don't have our child yet. So we're just like, let's see what it would take to get to Antarctica. So we had a suicidal show in Buenos Aires, Argentina, which is basically like the last major city south that you would have to get to, to then get on a boat and sail the Drake Passage to Argentina, to, to Antarctica. And we did that. And so these things, like, you know, we have many creative and life and just experiential goals that we've been able to really allow tour life as it is to be like, hey, this is a show I'm playing. And then we can just do things, you know, Machu Picchu before a tour starts in Peru, Antarctica after a show in Buenos Aires, stuff like that. Because I have other friends who like travel is meaningful to them in that way as well. And I've seen them like, yeah, after this tour, like my partner and I, we're going to go to Easter Island and check out those crazy totem head things and whatever. I'm like, that is so cool. Like, so to share that with, you know, with your significant other is really, really rad. And and now we're embarking on our most daring journey. Yeah. Becoming parents.

Speaker 2:
[138:03] You're you'll be great, man.

Speaker 1:
[138:04] Thanks.

Speaker 2:
[138:05] You'll you'll figure it out. Yeah, we'll see.

Speaker 1:
[138:07] You know, we'll work hard at it. That's that's the thing is anything, you know, worth doing is worth doing 100 percent.

Speaker 2:
[138:12] Yeah, especially with your favorite person in the world.

Speaker 1:
[138:15] Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2:
[138:16] It's cool to have a favorite. It's like, damn, you're like, you're like my favorite human on the planet. So it's it's a very if you're blessed and have that husband, wife, boyfriend, girlfriend, partner, if you have that, it's you're very you're very blessed.

Speaker 1:
[138:32] Well, it's cool because she came from a from a life that she had heard of Slipknot, but didn't know anything about the band. That was her removal from the world that I had found myself immersed completely within. And we met in my capacity as a painter. So it was really nice to share this with somebody who I can. And it's been amazing seeing the world together as like, and she finds the stuff that she loves about this art form that like, I'm like, I've committed my life to this. And so as we're getting to know one another, and we met while we were recording an album called We Are Not Your Kind. And we were writing it, and we started dating right at the beginning of the recording of that album. And, and so she got to understand like, the, the attention and time, like the massive amount of time. And we were out here in California and working on this thing. It's like, she was such an integral part, at least for, you know, just me and my private life. Like this, you know, in this undertaking of creating a thing that is like really important to me and my collaborators. And to share that like creative space as like one creative, and like coming up with ideas of like, you know, stage outfit and mask ideas and stuff like that was like to share that with another artist where I'm like, I have like a sounding board that's not just like, you know, my wife giving me like, you know, suggestions or anything like that. It's like she's an artist who I, who I really respect. And, and yeah, this is another thing. One of the paintings I've been working on for better part of like a decade. And through, you know, through, through our early stages of our relationship, she was like, you should do like a gallery show. Like we can make this happen. We can do this ourselves. And we just went on, like, it was, I forget what the site was, but it's kind of like Airbnb for art galleries. And you just like run out of space for a week. And we did that in LA. And I built this like virtual art space in the kind of little world of these paintings that I had been making for like 10 years in between touring and recording responsibilities and stuff. Thanks, yeah. So I'm in a place now where I'm really trying to, as I'm trying to like focus and slow and make things be a studio rat as I'm making like this studio at my house, get back to this was in 2022 that I had released all this stuff. So we're like four years removed from that. I'm really like feeling the itch to get back to that. This ended up coming out pretty cool.

Speaker 2:
[141:24] It's pretty sick. Yeah, you got the itch for it, man.

Speaker 1:
[141:27] Oh, and in this, you can actually hear primordial versions of the songs that I'm actually now releasing. Oh, yeah. Yeah, like demo versions of these songs. So actually, if you navigate this like, you know the video game Doom?

Speaker 2:
[141:41] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[141:42] I wanted it to feel like it's my artwork, but like you were walking around in Doom.

Speaker 2:
[141:45] Oh, that's sick.

Speaker 1:
[141:47] And so, but I wanted to put my music to it. So actually, the next song that I'll be releasing, you can find a primitive version of that demo as you navigate this, like each area has its own song.

Speaker 2:
[142:02] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[142:02] So you can find a demo version. Yeah. I can't really hear it. But yeah, that's not it, but that's a different one. But like, yeah.

Speaker 2:
[142:15] Is it multiple songs in?

Speaker 1:
[142:16] Yeah. There's like six or seven songs in there.

Speaker 2:
[142:18] Oh, shit.

Speaker 1:
[142:18] Something like that.

Speaker 2:
[142:19] Oh, it's cool.

Speaker 1:
[142:20] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[142:20] How's your- send you around the same time, you're also dealing with a hip injury. Yeah. How did that ever pan out?

Speaker 1:
[142:31] It sucked.

Speaker 2:
[142:32] It sucked.

Speaker 1:
[142:33] Well, yeah, I'm good now, but at the time, yeah, that was difficult. I think this goes back to summer of 2018. My whole life, we're talking hockey goalie up and down. It's wear and tear on your hip, but I'm a young person and I'm not really noticing that. I never had an MRI to show me what was going on with my hip. But in my early 20s, I also like kickboxed. There was a kickboxing gym near where I lived.

Speaker 2:
[143:03] You got to kickbox. I mean, you're in Slipknot, dude.

Speaker 1:
[143:05] What's that?

Speaker 2:
[143:06] You got to get into kickboxing.

Speaker 1:
[143:08] Yeah. So I was kickboxing for a little while. But that motion on a bag is a lot on your hips. In the summer of 2018, I'd go for a run. That was my favorite way of exercising on tour, is because I could just go out the back door of a venue and just run for a half hour that way and a half hour back. But then I was at home and I would go running for five minutes, and all of a sudden I'm like, I have this debilitating pain in my left hip, and I can't even walk for days. We were off tour at the time, so I was lucky that it wasn't interfering with those kinds of responsibilities. Excuse me, but I wouldn't run for a month, and then I'd go back and try again, do my stretches, and I'll go running. I'm like, same pain. I'm like, what the fuck is going on with my hip? Early COVID era, because we're making an album and we've got tours, I'm just trying to baby my hip. Drumming, active double bass playing didn't make it worse, but running really did. That form of exercising was hurting. It hurt a lot. Early COVID, this might have been towards the summer maybe or something. I got an MRI that showed your femur as it enters your hip, should be shaped like this on both sides, going inwards like that. Well, on one side, the outer side of my femur as it went into my hip, it bulged out on the one side. So instead of going in, it came out. It was just this excess bone that over the course of my life and activity, it had torn my labrum as my femur went into my hip, which the term for it. Look at this. I feel like I'm at the hospital. The term is, you can even look this up. People can see this if they're watching. It's called FAI, femuroacetabular impingement. That's what I had going on. What it is, it's very common. It actually is very common. That's basically what I had going on. Exactly. It had torn the labrum where that is, and that causes inflammation and the pain. Once it inflames, it hurts a lot. I had it checked out by a doctor and he was like, look, I do this surgery on active NHL players. In fact, I mean, it's public knowledge. He did this corrective surgery on Tyler Sagan of the Dallas Stars, and Brad Marsh and at the time, the Boston Bruins, but now he's on the Florida Panthers, two active NHL players, this exact doctor did that operation on. And I was like, okay. So I was like, and he told me, he was like, all right, consider surgery for this because I think you're a candidate for it. I do this surgery all the time. Do it while you're younger. I was, what was I, 30 at the time? Not even, yeah, 30, 29. He was like, do it while you're on the younger side because you have a better chance of recovering completely and living a comfortable life with your hip without this pain. I was like, okay, well, what's the recovery time? It's six months. Basically, two months, you're basically, you don't get off the couch. Yeah, it's pretty gnarly. But I'm like, okay, understanding that this is either pain I have to live with or I have to address this and do this surgery, but also try balancing that with a rigorous recording and touring schedule and stuff. It's difficult. That's a difficult needle to thread. Yeah, I made the decision to get it done because it was like, look, this is going to start deteriorating or I'm not going to be able, it's going to restrict my movement. Maybe it'll start affecting my drumming. I'm running worst-case scenarios of how this thing could get worse, and I'm like, I want to address this. So I made the decision and my surgeon had the availability in his window. I was like, all right, November 14th, doing it. So that was it and committed to that. I've had minor operations, actually operations on my toes when I was younger. We don't need to get into that, it's gross. But this is the first time I have a surgery where I need to do significant physical therapy. So and I started physical therapy literally the next day. Like you have to get right, literally right back on that bike. So I had the surgery, they make three holes in your hip, and they just go in as arthroscopic surgery. So then he shaved away the bone, the excess bone that was creating this impingement, shaved away the bone, reattached the labrum, and then you're sent off like, okay, six months of recovery, here you go. And literally the next day, you are on, oh, don't show that shit. I actually haven't even looked at stuff like that. But so literally the next day, you are on a stationary bike, like work because you got to work out that tissue and like, because if you don't, if you don't do the physical therapy that's required, you actually have a chance of that bone like regenerating. The problem coming back, but coming back worse and you, and you'll have like a locking up sensation in your hip. And, and it's interesting. I've actually met other musicians who are like, damn man, like I have that going on or I did that surgery or whatever. And it's like you find there's like a community of people who've like, who have had this, but it was gnarly dude, like four or five days of like rigorous physical therapy for like four months. And then literally when, like Muir asked me to play with Infectious and Suicidal, we met up and I had my first jam with Infectious coming out because we had a Slipknot song that got nominated for a Grammy. So went to the Grammys and came out here and had my first jam with Infectious Grooves.

Speaker 2:
[149:37] Oh wow.

Speaker 1:
[149:38] And that was my first time sitting down at drums after my surgery, was like my first jam with Infectious. There's not that much like active double bass playing, but there's a little bit and literally I'm like, dude, it feels. I'm telling the guys, they're like my new friends that I'm jamming with. I'm just like, bro, because I had said I will be ready. We had a tour that we were going to do in May, which is when I expected November to May, six months. I'll be recovered by then. Because he had asked me, where are you in your recovery? Would you be down to do this tour? I was still laid up on the couch, but I was just like, I will do that tour. I said that, that was like my Baltimore material. I was like, I will do that tour. It's an honor and this and that. But I'm like, okay, now I've got my thing. I've got my carrot on the end of the stick. I get through this physical therapy and I get to do this tour. But at the time, our jamming, I was like, what? February, March or something like that? I asked my physical therapist, I was like, I'm going out to jam with a band and it still feels like I have a hole in my hip. Is that okay? He's like, yeah, you'll be fine. So I was like, all right, fuck yeah, I get to do this. It's just about being intelligent with it or whatever. I mean, the process, yeah, it fucking sucked. You're on the couch and all I can do. I had this crazy contraption that it's like a girdle that fills. I don't know if this is interesting to anybody. Yeah, that was our first jam session after I've been on the couch for two months. But you have a girdle that fills up with ice water and a machine that is called a Continuous Passive Motion Machine.

Speaker 2:
[151:22] Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[151:22] Your leg goes in it and you just literally watch two hours of a movie or something and your leg goes like this to just break up all that scar tissue that's being formed because of the surgery. That was like two months of my life pretty much was like that. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So fully kind of crazy to see because I haven't looked at this in a while.

Speaker 2:
[151:44] Fully recovered. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[151:45] Yeah, I feel I feel great. You know, I run and drum, obviously. And yeah, no, I feel good. I'm glad to have done it that like surgery was the right option for me. Difficult to do it, but that's like it's one of those things you just just got to do it.

Speaker 2:
[151:59] You got to do it, man. Yeah, it's cool. It's cool. Once you say something, you realize, oh, shit, then people kind of come out. Oh, shit, I got that surgery. Yeah, I'm thinking about it. Yes. You don't really know until you say it. And then people, then people will start.

Speaker 1:
[152:12] I had I had I had LASIK surgery last week. So similar similarly like a girl like, you know, peers of ours are just like, dude, I've been wondering about that. Like, what was your experience? And this and that. And so I'm like telling them. And it's yeah, it connects us. You know, we're we're all we're all doing this stuff, man. We're all just doing our best out here.

Speaker 2:
[152:30] We're all just plain human.

Speaker 1:
[152:32] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[152:32] Yeah. It's a good way to put it.

Speaker 1:
[152:33] I like that.

Speaker 2:
[152:33] We're all just plain human.

Speaker 1:
[152:35] I like that.

Speaker 2:
[152:35] So yeah, that's actually why you're in town.

Speaker 1:
[152:37] Yeah. Yeah. So you the the place I went to do it with, they would only allow me to do it if I would stay if I would be able to come to my one week post-op appointment, which will be tomorrow. It will be one week since I had Lasik and getting a lot of like I had gear stored out here that I'm getting home and like other things. The E Street Band had a couple shows in town. I get to see my family, I get to get my gear, I get to have Lasik, and all this stuff has been, we get to sit down and have this chat and stuff. So it's been great.

Speaker 2:
[153:10] Have the eyes now.

Speaker 1:
[153:11] Good. I get the sensation of like, you might hear from other people that have Lasik like driving at night, you have like halos of light and slight blurriness or stuff, but it's like safe and I feel good. I'm on the path of recovery with my eyes. But it was one of those things I was like, you know, I've heard that when you have your first child, you are entering a world of intermittent sleep and falling asleep with your contacts in and stuff. And I've been wearing contacts for like 25 years.

Speaker 2:
[153:38] Oh, have you?

Speaker 1:
[153:39] Yeah. So I'm just like, dude, and I hate when I fall asleep with a man, I'm just like, do you wear contacts at all?

Speaker 2:
[153:45] No.

Speaker 1:
[153:45] Oh my God.

Speaker 2:
[153:45] I'm blessed with perfect eyesight.

Speaker 1:
[153:47] If you do and then you wake up and you're just like, oh my God, you feel like this skin is fused to your eyeballs, like the worst sensation. Anybody who's done that knows it sucks. So I was just like, I probably have like a whole, I have months or years ahead of myself with like not sleeping all that great and falling asleep with my contacts in. I'd rather, I've been wanting to do it for a long time. So I'm just like, yeah, I can read, oh, keep that up. I can probably read the FDFLTCEO. Oh, that's the second bottom line. That's pretty good.

Speaker 2:
[154:17] Oh wow. Congrats, man.

Speaker 1:
[154:18] Thank you.

Speaker 2:
[154:19] Wow. And also, and we were talking earlier, this is, if you're getting lazy, this is not something to try to save money on.

Speaker 1:
[154:27] No, no. I mean, yeah. Like I had a, yeah, I'm not advised. Like, I mean, everybody do their research. I'm not a doctor and I'm not making any suggestion that anyone should get lazy. But I found it was right for me that I was a candidate and asked around friends who had had it done. And a friend group actually had it done by one specific doctor. And they had great experience with it. So that's where I kind of focused my research on it and made the decision and I'm glad I have.

Speaker 2:
[154:54] Nice. What's like a good asking price? Like over five grand, you think? What's around there?

Speaker 1:
[154:59] I think, I mean, I'll say this is like, it's your eyes. So don't, you're not doing eye surgery on a budget. Like, it's an investment in my life and my future in this. I'm not going to, you know, we're not sharing figures, but like, it's, it was important to me to like, this is a measure twice, cut once sort of, sort of opportunity in life. I'm not going to mess around with my eyes. I want to see my daughter, you know? So, so yeah, but it's an investment. I'll put it that way.

Speaker 2:
[155:34] Great. Well, I'm glad you got it done. Thank you. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[155:38] I feel good about it.

Speaker 2:
[155:39] Well, Jay, we're going over two and a half hours. Anything that we miss, anything that you might want out there? I have one more question, but I'm not sure. Sure.

Speaker 1:
[155:50] I mean, yeah, like there's stuff happening, like you said this will come out next week. So next week, I'm in Las Vegas during the Festival Sick New World. The weekend, the festival will be out there. I'll be doing tours of the Punk Rock Museum. Have you ever been there in Vegas?

Speaker 2:
[156:04] I've only heard about it.

Speaker 1:
[156:05] It's incredible. It's this huge collection of just like punk rock artifacts. Things like Joan Jett's leather jacket, Lemmy's amps and his hat and his boots, artifacts from The Misfits, from Black Flag, from all your favorite bands. I'm actually going to be contributing a couple of my own drums that I collaborated on with the amazing artist Shepard Fairey, Obey. We collaborated on my drum set that I used with Suicidal Tendencies featuring all the classic iconic suicidal imagery. That's actually on display at the Punk Rock Museum. So I'll have my drums that has this artwork made by Shepard that, yeah, there you go, that takes designs made by Lance Mountain.

Speaker 2:
[156:51] Nice, that's awesome.

Speaker 1:
[156:54] That'll be there at the Punk Rock Museum when I go and do these tours next week. Excuse me. I got a lot of stuff. I'm releasing a bunch of music of this project that's first time I've ever released music under my own name. I really hesitate calling it a solo project. It's not. It's a collaborations project where I get to just have fun with friends. There are many things that I've got coming down the pipeline and more. Like we're talking about, I think activity begets activity, creativity begets creativity, where you just keep this momentum going. That's a video of a song called Drone Operator that I did with Jamie and Shade from Code Orange, Nowhere to Run. Yeah, so just having a lot of fun, doing a lot of free, experiencing freedom with this multitude of creative outlets and just enjoying that. Then obviously, having a child will be like, I'm going on paternity leave is as my wife and I have been describing it, which is a nice way of like, I want to be focused. But then once I get the hang of that, I'm certainly have creative ambitions that will take me here, there and everywhere and excited about it.

Speaker 2:
[158:07] Great. Last question. What are three albums for people to check out?

Speaker 1:
[158:14] Three albums for people to check out.

Speaker 2:
[158:15] It could be any genre, any era, it doesn't matter.

Speaker 1:
[158:19] Let's say The Who Quadrophenia, as we were speaking of before. Epic. That was the first album I ever fell in love with. Let's see, The Who Quadrophenia. Man, I'm always on the spot and I feel like I should have a note on my phone about when you get asked about your top three, this and that. But okay, Quadrophenia.

Speaker 2:
[158:44] Yeah, that's a good one.

Speaker 1:
[158:45] Let's say the new album from Converge, Love Is Not Enough. That's been like, I've been listening to that constantly and we just caught them in Dayton, Ohio last week. It was incredible. Quadrophenia, Love Is Not Enough. And the Jimi Hendrix Experience, Are You Experienced? Does that have Voodoo Child on it? Whether it does or not, Are You Experienced by Jimi Hendrix?

Speaker 2:
[159:10] Yeah, that's the one, that's the yellow cover, correct?

Speaker 1:
[159:12] It is, yeah.

Speaker 2:
[159:13] Boom.

Speaker 1:
[159:14] Mitch Mitchell, Unreal.

Speaker 2:
[159:17] A three piece, dude.

Speaker 1:
[159:19] Yeah, Power Trio, Power Trio, dude.

Speaker 2:
[159:21] If you're in a band with just three people, that's the dream.

Speaker 1:
[159:25] Dude, drums, guitar, bass, some semblance of vocals in there.

Speaker 2:
[159:30] It's hard. Who do I got to kick out? I'll kick out Mark.

Speaker 1:
[159:34] Or we can start one. I've got new projects all the time. You, me and who? Who's on bass?

Speaker 2:
[159:40] Two piece.

Speaker 1:
[159:41] Okay. All right. Even better.

Speaker 2:
[159:44] Jay Weinberg, thank you, man.

Speaker 1:
[159:45] Thank you.

Speaker 2:
[159:46] What do you want people to go?

Speaker 1:
[159:48] jayweinbergofficial.com, there's stuff on there. Instagram, the huge.

Speaker 2:
[159:52] Nice. You know? All right. Hell yeah. All right, everyone. Love you guys.

Speaker 1:
[159:56] Bye, everybody.