transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:05] You're listening to The Beautiful Mess Podcast, your cozy comfort listen. I'm your host, Emma Chapman, and I'm your host, Elsie Larson. And this week, we're talking about the books that genuinely shifted how we see the world. Not just five-star reads, not just books we love, but the ones that rewired our thinking and books that we still find ourselves talking about years later. I love this episode so much. So before we jump in, I have this like fun parasocial relationship story from this past week. What is parasocial? I don't even know what that means. So parasocial relationship is the relationship that you have with someone you feel like you know, but they don't know you. So like for me, I feel like Alice Hoffman is my best friend, but she in fact would not recognize me at the grocery store. Okay. So kind of celebrities. So kind of being a fangirl. Right. And it mostly happens online. Okay. So this is my funny story. It's so weird, but I kind of love it. So a couple of weeks ago, I did this Instagram Q&A. You know, I love the Instagram Q&A. Emma's not on Instagram anymore, so she didn't see any of this. I didn't. Okay. So I did the Q&A and I got like multiple questions that were like, are you and Jeremy still married? Are you divorced? And I had gotten one the time before. So I was like, oh my God, like because when you get one, it's like, who cares? But when you start getting like, like it's over and over, you're like, people are seeing something that I'm not putting out. What's happening? So I was like, did I say something? Is it because I never remember to wear my rings? Is it because I literally never show a photo of him? But I feel like a lot of people don't show a photo of their husband. Anyway, so I just put it out there like, why? Why? Why do people think this? And I got like a thousand DMs. Never gotten this many DMs. It was so like I got where I couldn't read them all. And it, people had all kinds of theories. What's the verdict? There was a lot of theories. Many people, okay, so people who listen to the podcast were like, I would never think that because I listen to the podcast and you mention him. Right. So it's like obvious. And then a lot of people were like, I was wondering the same thing because I just don't show him. And then someone said, it is more of a reflection on the millennial early bloggers because a lot of you guys are getting divorces and that I thought was fair. Okay. Yeah. It's divorce. Time. Decade. That is fair. I got my divorce when I was 24. So I am fully done with that. Ahead of the game as usual. Right. And then one person, so my very favorite comment, someone said, yeah, when you moved back to Missouri, I thought you left him in Nashville. What? Oh gosh. That was my favorite. So anyway, I told him, because he's also not really on Instagram. So I was like, I just want to warn you, this is funny, but I, a lot of people thought we were getting a divorce. And he was like, well, oh, wait, oh, oh. I felt like his reaction was going to be like, huh? I mean, it kind of was. He was like, very curious why. And then when there wasn't really a reason, he was like, who cares? So yeah. Anyway, it's just for fun. But yeah, I think it's, it is like so interesting to be, I feel like a human experiment being an early influencer, you know what I mean? And the experiment continues. Like even when I feel like I have fully separated my identity from like our early blogger times, but other people haven't, you know what I mean? And it's like, you can't control what people think. Like it's just so interesting. So anyway, I have never, I don't think I've ever noticed. I think I'm not a very good internet detective because I have never suspected, like when when people announce their divorces, I'm always surprised. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So I don't think I'm the type of person who would like notice or speculate. I've had times too, that you told me a friend got a divorce. I'm not going to say their name because you know, and I was like, what? And you were like, yeah, it was a year ago. And I was like, what? Like, lots of times you find out people have gotten a divorce a while ago. So that is a common thing online. And in that way, I can kind of get it. Yeah, I feel like too, I kind of now because I've been off for a while now, which I'll get back on eventually. I'm not like against it, but yeah, I'm also just I've just been off. And I feel like in some weird ways, my brain has returned to like the time before, like my old high school brain or something, where I kind of forget about, oh, people think things on the Internet. Like in a way, you're like you're describing this and I'm like, why would anyone have a theory about your marriage? Like I'm confused. And then I'm like, well, of course they would. They watch it all the time. Like this is, you know, like my little brain that's like, oh yeah, I was on the Internet for so long is like, obviously, and then my new brain that's regrowing from my old past life is like, what? Like this is just like these two dynamics in there all the time. And it's very strange. It makes me feel very out of touch. I feel like when you say you're out of touch, people think it means you don't know what's going on in the news. And that's true. But also, it's like a different level of being out of touch where I'm like, I don't understand how the humans interact because I haven't been interacting with them in this way that everybody does. And I've just kind of lost that muscle or whatever. But I remember a little bit, when you bring something up like that, I'm like, why would anyone even speculate about you? But of course they would. Yeah, I don't know. It honestly entertained me for an afternoon, so that was fun. So this week we are talking about books that change how we see the world. I love this topic and I want to give my caveat up front. Yeah. It's caveat time. What if we ever done the caveat at the end? Actually, we probably do. It's usually at the beginning, middle, and end. It's beginning, middle, and end. Yeah. The podcast is renamed a caveat. Yeah. So my caveat is I told myself when I was outlining and working on the prep for this episode, I'm going to mention all books that I don't talk about all the time on the podcast. I'm going to mention new books. And I went through my Goodreads of every single book and I still ended up picking books that I mention often. So I'm sorry, I did try, but I feel like when you're going for something this big, like it's not favorite books, but it kind of is, you know? I still had to pick my favorites. So I really tried. I really, really tried. Yeah, I did not even try. Okay. And I still ended up in the same place you did. So there you have it. I mainly would say, as you were telling me, because Elsie does our outlines, she does more work for this than me, if you can't tell. But as you were telling me this idea, I was like, oh, I love this topic so much, because I just love how books, but also art can be entertainment. It can just be provocative. It can just be beautiful, or it can change the way you see the world. And that's so fun. Like my favorite thing about books, I don't know, there's so many things I love about them, but like, I feel like it's given me such a window into other people's lives. And like really helped me grow my empathy muscle over the course of my whole life, including like, you know, I became a reader like middle school, like outside of school, obviously. And yeah, I just feel like it makes me see people's lives that I would never have a chance to see otherwise. And yes, it's fiction. It's not real. It's fake. But I still think so many writers are trying to get it right. They're trying to show us, you know, the lives of a sex worker, someone with autism, so, you know, just stuff that like I don't have any experience with. And I would love to know, you know, someone else's life and their interiority and what they go through. And so fiction is like one way you get to do that. And I think it's really fun and I love it. And it can like change your worldview in so many ways. And just sometimes you like learn something about like, like video games. I'm not a, I'm not a gamer. Love learning about like someone else, someone who's passionate about something. It's just like fun. So yeah, I love books that are just purely entertainment. That's great. And that's a lot of stuff we talk about. But I was excited that today we're going to talk about books that are like, they're probably fun. Mine were fun to read. But they also just kept me thinking. And some of them healed me. Some of them I think about years and years and years later. And I just love that. I think it's like special that books can do that. And any art, movies do it too. Like, you know, just storytelling, I think has the opportunity to change us. And I think that's really powerful and fun. Emma Yes, I agree. I think it's so interesting how some novels have like one day of your life, or one, you know, three days, two days, you know, one plane ride sometimes. And then some of them live in your mind for 10 years. Like, and just what a big difference that is. And that it's not good or bad, but it just is. Like, and you can't always predict why some of them have these longer lives internally than others. Yeah. So let's talk about some of these books. I think we're each picking three. Yeah. So it's not an infinite number here. So we get to really dive deep on each one. So what's your first one? Okay. So my first one, I was unable to pick any other book for my first one. Like it just has to be Jurassic Park by Michael Crichton. First and foremost, it was my childhood special book. It was my first adult novel that I read as a child. I'm pretty sure I was in fourth grade or fifth grade. And you had that feeling of like, I read this whole book. Yeah. I had that feeling. I had my little mass market paper book and I remember I finished it in those bunk, those trundle bunk beds at our grandma Karina's house. Yes. Those were scary. Sometimes you couldn't get it open. They were scary. So yeah, it transports me to being a fifth grader, like so powerfully. So I think that's a part of it and I will give it that, but there's more. Okay. So what I think is special about Jurassic Park is, it's kind of my scope for how real fiction can become. Because the book, a lot of people, including myself as a child and sometimes now, believe the science in the book, which is pretend. But it is so compelling and it feels so real inside the pages, that it feels like inevitable, like we will have dinosaurs on earth and it will follow. This is how it will happen. Yeah. Almost like he did a prediction of future science. Yeah. That is not true. I've read about it a lot because I was curious, like how real is it? It's not very real. It's not very scientifically viable at all. It is just great storytelling. And so, yeah, I think it's also the best. Here's my story about that. Okay. As an adult, so you're a fifth grader in this story. As an adult, I watched The Martian and I was like, yeah, that's so cool. How many times have we been to Mars? Like that's what my brain did. That's how much I believed that story. We have not grown potatoes on Mars, if anyone's serious. Okay, keep going with Jurassic Park. Yeah. There's other writers I could group in with this. I think Andy Weir, he's a great example. I also think Margaret Atwood from The Handmaid's Tale is in a more terrifying, horrible way has made something so compellingly real. Scarier than Stephen King. Take that Stephen King. No, I think it's much scarier. Yeah, she's terrified. She's a master. Yeah. So anyway, yeah, I also think that Jurassic Park is one of the best high concept hooks ever. That's something I've been learning about this year to try to work on my own writing. And it's like, it's amazing. Like you just you kind of just can't write a better hook than that. So it's it's incredible. And OK, I have heard so prologues are like this funny thing in writing. They're frowned upon. And I guess like a lot of new writers want to put prologues and they end up being like not very compelling and like not adding a lot to the story. But Jurassic Park is considered one of the good examples of a prologue. Yeah. So and there's not that many where it's like these are good examples outside of fantasy of a prologue. So anyway, if you care about that, it's also it's a fun book, I think to study for so many different reasons. But yeah, that is my first one. And I think that also it's just like lived in my heart in a magical way. Like it started something inside of me, like this love of like dinosaurs and science that I probably would never have had. And it's never gone away my entire life. Yeah. I think that science fiction is the book I'm about to talk about is also science fiction. So here's my segue. Okay, no, I don't know. But I do think science fiction has this ability to like tell us an amazing story that just grabs us, but then also make us think about the world in a more philosophical way. So Jurassic Park, there's a lot of themes in the book. But one is kind of about how like you can't control nature or like a scientist who creates something and then his creation becomes sort of a monster. So it's a little bit of a Frankenstein story in a way. Because the dinosaurs get out of their cages and you know, all those things. So yeah, it's just kind of about how you shouldn't play God a little bit if you wanted to like simplify it to something. And I think that's an interesting theme and showing it, showing it to us with a compelling story about dinosaurs is really going to drive the point home so much more than, you know, some boring story or whatever. So anyway, on that note, science fiction, my first book is Brave New World. Oh, I've never read this. Okay. Give it to me. So you never read it? No. Okay. It's pretty short. You should read it. It's fun. It's an oldie, oldie but a goodie. Okay. So I read this in college. I think I was a sophomore. So second year of college, I want to say. And I had been a fan of science fiction for a while, but also fantasy. Like, yeah, I was a reader. But I couldn't always put my finger on what it was about science fiction that like really drove it home for me. And I read this book in a philosophy class. I had just changed my major from art to philosophy because I had a plan. No, I didn't. No, I didn't. This class was like philosophy of literature. So I think we read like five novels and we talked about the philosophical ideas behind them. And the first one or one of the first ones was Brave New World. And if you're not familiar with the book, like I was telling Elsie, it's pretty short. You should definitely read it, listen to it. It's a lot of fun. It's science fiction. It's also a dystopian future. So it's set far, far in the future. It's London, far in the future. And the world is a totalitarian world, where humans are like created in test tubes, and there's different classes, and there is no mobility between the classes. You just are what you are. They grow new humans. And people are controlled through pleasure, consumerism, and drugs. I think the drug is like called Sonoma or something. There's a fictional drug in the book. And the government sort of dispenses these things and controls people through them these ways. And so the book kind of follows a couple of different characters. But at the end of the day, it's kind of about breaking out of the class system, leaving that, you know, controlling state. But I would say it's kind of about safety versus freedom. And I think the idea of controlling people through pleasure, consumerism, and drugs is really interesting. I would add to that list now if I was writing the book something about social media or phones or, you know, that kind of thing. And then it's also like, like I said, I was reading it in college, so I was fairly young. I think it's a little bit too about finding your place in the world or accepting who you are and what you want. Like, instead of running from your desires and like the things inside of us, embracing them and trying to figure out how to make them work in the world, or maybe they don't if the world is a very dystopian future. Yeah, so it's very rich in themes. It's kind of a wacky story, but I think it's really, really good, really fun. And it's a classic. And yeah, I still think about it from time to time. I actually, this is so random, side note, but when I got married, I wanted to do the thing where you hollow out a book for your ring book. So the ring bearer carried a book down the aisle and our rings were tied inside of the book and the book was Brave New World. Oh, did you guys take that class together? We did. They were philosophy students together. Isn't that cute? That's how we met. Yeah. So anyway, should you use a dystopian future book for your wedding? I don't know, but I did. I don't see a problem with it. Yeah, I think it's pretty cool actually. Wonderful. Yeah, that sounds very fun. I'm excited to read it. It's good. It's weird. You'll like it. I think you'll like it. I think so. My second book is Station Eleven. There's two huge reasons why I had to choose this book. The first one is that it gave me literal nightmares, and this is one of my- I am a little bit of a nightmare person, and this is one of my favorite things. The other night I got one from a movie. I was telling Emma about it. It was the Sofia Coppola movie, The Bling Ring. If anyone's seen it. Anyway, okay, we don't need to worry about that right now. So Station Eleven, actually, okay, actually, I'll be honest. I first watched the TV show before I read the book. So I had never even heard of this book at the time the TV show came out, which shows you exactly how literate I was in my 20s and 30s. Like it, yeah, you can learn a lot from that. So anyway, we started watching the TV show, which is incredible and a little bit different plotting from the book. So I think that you have to do both. They're both so beautiful and so good and they sort of emphasize different characters and yeah. So anyway, it was actually after we watched the first episode of the TV show that I had this nightmare. It was the best nightmare of my entire life. I know. I dreamed that I was together with Emma and our coworker, Jackie, and we were on a trip and there was like an outbreak of a flu, and I was like trying to get away from people, but someone came to talk to me and I knew in that moment that I was never going to see my kids again. And it was like the scariest. But I think that that, I think that's why Station Eleven lives inside of me so powerfully is because it is so frightening and it felt so real. So anyway, that was fun. And then the things I really like about the story are dwelling on like what would be left. Like if we lost the Internet, we lost electricity, we had no more antibiotics, we had no more health care, we would lose so much. You would lose your ability to talk to anyone who's not in your immediate proximity. You would lose countless things. But what would be left over, I think is an interesting thing to draw on. And in her story, a lot of it ends up being art. And there's like people who are doing theater, who are performing Shakespeare, and they're keeping that alive for themselves and for the remaining people around them. And they're traveling around sharing it. And it's a beautiful story in that way, just to think about like, what would we still have? Books are another thing. And then, what would we long for and miss for, you know, like I love thinking about that. What would I miss the most in a world like that? And I mean, probably traveling. But there's a lot of things and it's, it's actually like, yeah, it's a really heavy thing to think about. But for some reason, I really enjoy it. And it's just a part of my brain that like needs, needs that for some reason. Anyway, the last thing I love about Station Eleven is, so my favorite trope of them all, one trope to rule them all, is a book within a book. I love it when there's a book within a book in any story. And it happens pretty often, not as often as I wish it would, in the books that I read. And in this story, there is a comic book. And in the TV show, I feel like they like pulled the narrative even farther with the comic book and they created some of it. And I've been deep into her Reddit threads. She has this like Reddit thread interviews and stuff like that. So anyway, yeah, she said that at some point, the comic book will be a real book that you can buy that they were planning to produce it. And I hope that that's true, because I deeply want this book like so bad. Yeah, like that's just one of my favorite things about a book within a book is that you can't have it. But it seems so real to you. And it just like creates this like this yearning. Yeah, it's the ultimate supply and demand, because the demand is high and there is literally no supply, unless she makes it, which would be really cool. But yeah, yeah, I saw someone on TikTok that was talking about, you know, the book, The Magicians. Yeah. So it's a series. And I haven't read it yet. But she said that in the series, there are these books that are not real. But at the time that it was coming out, the author made them look real on websites. Like there was some like marketing there. Oh, that's fun. And it like broke her heart so much. She was still a child, I think. And she like searched for months to try to get these books that don't exist. And I just think stuff like that is so compelling. So yeah, what's your next book? Okay. My next one is The Poisonwood Bible. Oh, I'm so glad you picked that. I wanted to pick it. I had to. When I saw you didn't pick it, I was like, Oh, she'll probably pick this. But okay, so this is a Barbara Kingsolver book. And it was actually the first of her books that I ever read. So number one, this launched my lifelong love of Barbara Kingsolver books. So that is just that alone is probably something to mention, because I've read almost all of her books. I have not read Demon Copperhead yet, but it's on my list. I think I've read almost every other book. I know it sounded so sad. It sounded beautiful, but so sad. She is one of those authors that is so good that you have to ration her books, and you shouldn't read them all in a row, I don't think. Yeah. When I fell in love with her, I did not know this tip. I just go to the library, get everything off the shelf. Now let's take a quick break and hear from our sponsors. Earlier this year, I turned 40, and while I don't think this age is any kind of magic number, I have to admit that this year, I've also started to notice some changes around my cycle, my moods alongside with my cycle, and also my sleep. My friends tell me this may be peri-mini-pos related and I think they could be right. 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I don't want to spoil too much, even though it's a pretty old book, but what I would say for me with the book was, I grew up Southern Baptist, and at the time that I read this, I was just sort of coming out of that, or I would say looking at it more critically. I was just getting to an age and getting to a place in my life, where I was looking at it more critically. But I feel like that became something that a lot of us did over time. When it was first happening for me, the Internet was young, so I think I just wasn't able to connect with as many people who were going through that, or perhaps maybe not as many people were going through it yet. I'm not really sure it was a time where- I think people have been going through it for centuries. I think so too. I think the Internet was still young, and so I wasn't able to talk with people about it as freely as I feel like we're able to now, which is nice, because it's nice to be able to process your s***. So anyway, I've had a lot of healing in this book, not because I think you could look at it and be like, oh, so there was sort of this revenge on a Baptist missionary. It's like, no, I didn't really view it that way. I just remember feeling like, okay, I'm not crazy when I read that book. I remember feeling like, okay, there are a lot of ways to look at this. And it's okay that I feel a lot of conflicting things inside me about what I believed growing up, how it seems to be evolving in me. And I'm not sure I agree with some parts of it anymore. And I'm feeling very like, am I crazy? Is something wrong with me? And I feel like this book gave me a lot of healing around that. A lot of like, no, you're not crazy. There's a lot of things going on here. And some are good, some are bad, it's good to be processing. And for a lot of the characters, the family, the daughters, they go on to have good lives. They're able to get out of this chaotic and sad situation and move forward. And I think that also kind of helped me see like, well, you're gonna move forward, you're just processing through this right now. And it's not so great at the moment, you're feeling like you're losing a lot of community and friends. But just keep going and be honest with yourself and be kind to yourself and to others. And we're just gonna keep looking at this. And I felt less alone reading this book, and so it meant a lot to me at the time. Yeah, so thank you, Barbara. Yeah, we love you, Barbara. It is real trauma to break away from the religion you were raised in. And I think that when you don't know that and you aren't validated, it's very confusing, very lonely. And I felt the same way, like it just feels like you're like your world is crumbling. Yeah, and you don't know how to piece it back together. Yeah, for years, Emma told me to read The Poisonwood Bible. And I, based on the title, Knowing Nothing Else, I had an expectation that it was going to... I was in my nonfiction era before I got into fiction. So I had this perception that it was going to sort of cleanly dismantle something. And it did not. It was very messy. It left it messy. It left just like, it just left it there for you to think about for yourself. And that it was the first time I had read a book like that. So it was very life changing for me as well. And I'll never, I'll never forget that book. And can I say one more, one more? Yeah, I have one more random thing about this too. So yeah, go ahead. I just learned that Barbara Kingsolver's new book is going to be set in the classical music world. And I'm so excited. I know I'm so excited. Yeah, that's very exciting. Yeah, I was going to say, she wrote a nonfiction years later after Poisonwood Bible called Animal Vegetable Miracle. It's kind of about just eating food that is local. If I had to sum it up, it's like eating locally, why that's important, why that might be better for our planet, how she does it on her farm. And at the time I was living in California, I was pursuing acting. And there were farmers markets like down the street from my apartment every week. And it was, you know, farmers markets are people who live nearby, who grow things. You get it. So, but this was sort of new to me. And so I was just, I was just getting into cooking and food. And really, the book kind of inspired me to start my first food blog, which was a lot about cooking recipes just from things I found at the farmers market or locally. And I didn't really stick with that. I was really deviated from Barbara's path on that. But it launched it. And I was just interested in cooking and interested in food. And her writing is just so gorgeous. So any prose about food I'm interested in. And this one happens to be about growing food and consuming food near you. And of course, it's beautiful writing because it's a Kingsolver. So yeah, beautiful. All right. My final book is Never Let Me Go by Kazuo Ishiguro. So this story, I first saw it as the movie in, I don't know, maybe 2010 ish sometime in there. There was a great movie. I watched it again recently and it's gorgeous. But the book is much more beautiful even. So yeah, why I love this book. It is a story. It's sort of mysterious. It's sort of literary. It is a story about clones. And I have like a deep unrelenting love of clone and robot stories that is just kind of one of my side quests in life. And it always has been since that, I think, the 1999 AI movie. Do you remember when I talked about that? And I like revealed it was my favorite movie of all time. That's real. Yeah. It's just a category that I love. And I think that when you get a chance for beautiful literary writing to be married together with a theme that you personally are just obsessed with, that is like the best intersection in books. I just love it. So anyway, the thing I love about this book is that it kind of healed my fear of death, which is a crazy thing to say. But let me explain. I think I've always had like a normal fear of death. I wouldn't say like an outsized, just like just your average normal boring fear of death. But when I read this story, the thing that I took from it was that their short little lives were just as full and had just as big of an emotional arc as our normal long old people lives, and that it doesn't matter in a way. It's about the now. Yeah, and it made me realize that it's not about how much time you have in life, but it's more like who you love, what you do with your time, what you do with the choices that you do have. It was very inspiring and it just gave me a different perspective that I still don't really understand why it meant that much to me, but it did. It unlocked something and now I'm not very afraid of dying. My husband thinks it's weird how much I'm fine with it, but I don't know. I think it's great. I think it's like if you're able to have that. So anyway, read the book, see if it does something for you. But yeah, I think it's a gorgeous book. I've heard people, we get a lot of emails from people who don't like the books we recommend and- Do we read them? Well, I do. I think they actually might be Instagram DMs more likely. Because actually, I'd never have read one where people are like, really? I get them all the time and it's always the same three books. And this is one of them that not everyone loves it. It's just not for everyone. That's okay. But I'm going to recommend it until I die because it means so much to me. And I think it's just a beautiful story. I don't know how you cannot love this book. So, that's the camp I'm in. Yeah, I'm just going to throw in. He also has a robot book called Clara and the Sun and it is incredible as well. It's getting an adaptation so it is a good time to read it right now. Yeah, I'm excited to see that because I liked that book a lot. He also wrote Remains of the Day and it has an old movie that's really lovely too. Yes, it has Anthony Hopkins movie. Yes, and Emma Thompson's in it. It's lovely. I think Anthony Hopkins is my oldest human celebrity crush. I don't know why I said human. I assume because you have some non-humans on the list. That was the assumption I made. She's thinking about it. I think it's from Westworld. But anyway, let's move on. Okay. My third one is Pride and Prejudice, Jane Austen. Okay. Obviously. I've never read this, which is crazy. So give it to me like a person who's never read it. Okay. So this was the first historical book that I ever read outside of school. I always thought a historical book would be boring. It changed my perspective on that, where I was like, this was not boring. This was a lot of fun. They took so many walks in the woods and I was like, what's going to happen? It's just like, wow, that's pretty good writing. So there's that. I'll also say this is probably the first book I read that is a romance. Wow. I don't know if it's technically a romance. I think it is, but I don't really know. I mean, when it was written, I don't know if they were so strong on the genres, you know? It's a plan. I think it would be shelved that way, I assume. So yeah, it was the first book I read that was a romance. And as anyone listening knows, I love romance. It's one of my top genres. It's my comfort genre. Love it. So it opened my door for that too. And I think too, it's just like a fun read. So a lot of historical works, as a woman, when you read historical books, a lot of times you're kind of faced with the fact that until pretty recently, people like me didn't have a lot of choices. Yeah. And I think that, you know, I read this pretty young. I was like in high school. But you know, it's just one of those things you grapple with and it makes you feel grateful. It also makes you kind of look at, okay, well, these are the choices they had. Here's what they did with them. Maybe I don't have every choice in the world, but what am I going to do with them? Kind of the same thing you're saying with Never Let Me Go. So yeah, I liked that. I think books about young women being courageous in whatever way, whenever you're a young woman who wants to be courageous, they're powerful books for you. And this one definitely fit the bill for me. So yeah, Pride and Prejudice forever. It's always in the top first lines, like opening lines in writing courses, because it has a great opening line. So definitely check that out. It's great writing. I'm excited to read it. I can't believe it's taking me this long. It's embarrassing. I should be humiliated. I should be humiliated. Okay, we have a nonfiction bonus round. Bonus time. I have two, two fur. So I will die on this hill. I want everyone in the world to read Supercommunicators by Charles Duhigg. So this is the most impactful nonfiction book I've ever read. I think that in a time when if you're like me, you struggle to communicate in real life, like you might have certain family members, certain situations, and then also communicating on the Internet has gone from bad to worse. It's not great. So this book, such an incredible way to learn what works, like what kind of communicating has a chance to get through to the other side with the message you intended. And instead of just like yelling and feeling like you're screaming into the blank space, this book- Get off my lawn. Yes. This book actually like teaches you some skills. And I think that everyone should read it. I am constantly begging my husband to read it. It's just great. And then my second book is Big Magic by Elizabeth Gilbert. I am on an endless loop with this one. I will probably reread it every five years till death. I just think it's- You'll never shut up about it. I won't. Never, never. I won't. I think it's just so wonderful. It introduced me to Anne Patchett. I didn't know who she was before I read this book. And now she's one of my favorite writers. And yeah, it just has lots of wonderful advice for creative people. There's a lot of stuff in there about like how to rebuild after you've had a big success and then you're kind of flopping, which is something that I've recently experienced in my life. It was very helpful to me. Yeah. I mean, you're lucky to get to experience that sort of thing. But with success comes this like pressure to always follow up with it with equal success, which I think is something that everyone should learn about and be prepared for in careers. So anyway, great books. What's your nonfiction list? I was like, what book do I feel like I reference all the time? Because I've read a lot of great nonfiction. I was like, honestly, as far as recently, the thing that I think about a lot is The Anxious Generation, which I think is a great book and really made me start thinking more critically about my own phone usage. I have young kids, they don't use phones right now, but someday they will have phones or tablets or whatever. They'll go to school and they're going to use stuff. I'm thinking about that. I'm looking at it. I'm looking at what's happening in our country, what legislation is happening locally and broad. It's interesting. I also feel like that book has had such an impact on current events because I think most parents and people generally, we're like, what are the effects of technology on our brains? Also, yeah, a lot of tech is owned by these top three companies. Is that good? Is that bad? They're just companies. They're not necessarily out for our good. I think they're out for our money. It's like what the deal is in a free market economy. It's just something that made me think a lot, still makes me think a lot, still is in choices I'm making daily. I really liked it. I think there's some controversy around the book and some controversy around the author. I love this book. I thought it was really worth listening to, worth reading. The pushback I've heard to it is that some of the advice isn't realistic. Sure. I think that's one of the hardest things about raising your kids in this cell phone social media era is that you want to protect them for as long as possible. But also, it's our responsibility to prepare them to be able to do all this on their own eventually, and responsibly, and so you do have to give them access to be able to learn those skills. And it's like how you navigate that middle part is something that I still have a lot of questions about. Yeah. And I don't really feel like any one book is going to tell us how to parent our children. Yeah. I just don't really think that's going to happen. I think that I'm trying to learn a lot about parenting, and I probably will be doing that until my kids are like, leave me alone, I'm an adult. And I think most parents feel that way because it's a hard job. And every kid is different, and they face different challenges, they have different needs. And so I just don't think there's any one solution or one book that's going to do that. But I think getting information, thinking about things, looking at things, I think is good. I'm more of a like, let's gather all the best advice we can, and I'm going to pick and choose what's making sense for my family at the age my kids is. And I don't really feel any like, me personally, any judgment towards what other people are doing with their kids. I'm like, good luck. It's hard out there. I see you. Keep trying. I'm going to do what I think is best and that's where I'm at. But sometimes you do have to make decisions as a group, like when you're in schools or things like that. And I think that it just has to be an ongoing conversation where we all have to be honest and kind to each other, but also like, here are my concerns. Here's what I'm looking at, worried about. What else can you do? So I love it. I love it. Okay. This hot take is from our listener Rose. She says, Spring is the best season. Yes, I've changed my mind from when I used to think it was autumn. Spring is when the daylight gets longer, the earth comes back to life, and we all feel more energized with so much to look forward to. The fall is great, but only for a few short weeks. In fall, the days get shorter, everything starts to die, and it gets colder. All right, okay Rose, first off, you're making some strong points. Yes. I think if you were Spring's defense attorney, you did your best here, okay? These are good strong points. I will say last night at 6:30 p.m., I was sitting there working and I was thinking, God, it's so nice that it's still full sunlight outside right now, and it just changes the feeling that you have about your time for me, like my after school hours between picking my kids up in bedtime. It was so short before and now it's getting really long. But I'm going to have to hard disagree. I just can't. I will give it to Spring that I like seeing the trees bloom. Again, I like seeing the grass get green. I like flowers. It's not autumn. The reason why I will never not be an autumn to Christmas enthusiast is that those four months of the year are like the coziest. I pack them with all these favorite things that I don't enjoy the rest of the year. It's this big sensory overload experience and then in January, I crash and then I wait for it again until September 1st. Yeah, and then I'm just, I've crashed, I'm down on the ground until Easter basically. So I'm glad, I'm happy for people who can appreciate spring as like a top season. I love that for you, Rose. I mean, I'm with Rose in that I appreciate spring and also summer more than I used to. Yeah. Like especially as a mom, like, you know, whatever. But my boys love to be outside. So I feel like winter months after Christmas is just tough because I'm just like trying to find ways to be active indoors. And I mean, we have a great house, but it's just, you know, it's hard. Whereas once they're outside all day, they just are happier and they just have more they can do. And so I appreciate it so much more. And I love being outside myself. I love the daylight, all those things. But spring does not have Halloween. Spring does not have impending Christmas. Spring does not have pumpkin spies. It's just not gonna do it for me. And my colors, by the way, are spring. But I just, I love you fall and I will always love you. Yeah. Me too. I can't switch those. But I will say that I think the thing we do agree on is that spring is so much better than winter. Yes. I think we all agree on that. Yes. Sorry, winter, but nobody likes you. Nobody. Okay, so we have our book report. Do you have a book? Do you have a new book? This is the book I read while we were on our Disney trip. Oh, okay. Go ahead. Okay. My book is One Golden Summer by Carley Fortune. Okay. So this was the first book I read. What was it? Or the second. I think it's the first book I read from the stash of 40 books that you got me for my birthday. I think I'm starting it on the stash. I've read this. This has now been a few weeks since I read it. But yeah. So anyway, you gave me a few of her books, and I love her, and I loved this and I took it on my trip, like I said, to Disney because it just felt like it was going to be right up my alley. Vacation-y book. Yeah. Vacation-y book. A contemporary romance, light, fun, sexy. I just was like, I have a feeling, I could tell by the cover. I was like, yeah. And it was all those things. It delivered on every account. I loved it. It was super fun. Yeah. If you've read any of her books, this is along those lines. It's set on a lake. There's a lot of like boating and swimming, and one of the main characters, she's kind of taking care of her elderly grandma at a lake house one summer, as she kind of rehabilitates from a hip surgery, and she meets the neighbor across the lake, and he's really hot, and it was just super fun book. Lovely writing. Loved it. I read it in like five days. Loved it. Wonderful. Okay. So my book was also from our spring break trip. I read this on the way home. I listened to the audio book all in one day on the airplane rides because we had kind of a long travel day. What I read was The Astral Library by Kate Quinn. So I was super excited about this book because Kate Quinn is known for her historical fiction, and I think this is her first magical realism book. So I knew it was going to be kind of different from her previous works and I was really excited to try it. So the premise of the book is that people, human people, you and me, could live in stories if we want to, but it has to be a public domain story. So I think that means older than 95 years old. So I know what I would pick. I thought about it, that was one of the most fun things was thinking the whole time about what I would pick or what else. Like when you're thinking in your mind like, she should do this, she should do this. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. It was very fun. It had a lot of costumes. It had a lot of different eras. So a couple of the books they go into, I won't give too many spoilers. I don't think this is a book you can really spoil, but they go into the Gatsby world. They go into, let me think, Sherlock Holmes. There is a Pride and Prejudice. So yeah, lots of variety and it was very fun. I loved the book. I think that this is specifically a recommendation. If you enjoyed The Midnight Library by Matt Haig, I love that. This book has a lot of similarities, but it is just a little more lighter and replaced the mental health stuff with a literary enthusiasm. It's like happy book girl. Yeah, just like people who want to live in libraries will probably enjoy this book, and it's also very pacey. It's like running pace the entire time. It's a page turner and yeah, I enjoyed it. So yeah, I hope if you read it, let me know what your favorite world is and what you would live in. If you could live in a, do you know what you would pick? I don't know. I definitely want to read this. This is a good pitch. It also is, I just can't, as you all know, I'm a nerd and it's really making me think about the holodeck when Star Trek Next Generation because a lot of times data goes in there and kind of does his own Sherlock Holmes time. And so it's making me think of that a lot. And I'm like, if I could go in the holodeck, where would I go? So it's basically a holodeck. Yeah. I love it. Love it. Yeah. It's magical. All right. So we're going to toss it over to a joke or a fact with Nova. Hey Nova, what do you have for us this week? A joke. Okay. I'm ready. How do aliens serve their food? How? On a flying saucer. Good joke. Have a good week. Okay. So if a book has changed your life, we want to hear about it. So email us podcast at a beautiful mess.com and we just might feature in a future episode. Thank you for listening. See you guys next week.