transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:00] Is it okay for Christians to smoke weed or consume products with CBD?

Speaker 2:
[00:04] The only person who's ever lived a Christian life perfectly did it so well, they named it after him, and that would be Jesus Christ himself.

Speaker 1:
[00:09] Instead of asking, man, how close can I get to sin before crossing that line? I wanna be asking, man, what do I have to do to get as close to Jesus as I possibly can? Well, hey, Live Free Nation. Before we jump into the episode, this podcast is recorded right here at Lakepointe Church in Dallas, Texas, but the Live Free Nation is spread all over the country and all around the world. So if you've been watching and thinking, man, I wish I could be part of something like this, we wanna invite you to take a simple next step, and that is join us for Church Online. Every weekend, we stream our services live on YouTube, Facebook, and our Church Online platform, and it's more than just watching a service. There are live hosts in the chat, prayer teams ready to stand with you, and people all around the world worshiping together in real time. And so whether you're exploring the faith, coming back to church, or just looking for a place to start, Church Online is a great way to jump in and experience what God is doing here at Lakepointe. We would love to see you in the chat this weekend, and now enjoy the podcast. Well, hey, welcome back to another episode of the Live Free Podcast. My name is Carlos Erazo, and I'm here today with the one and only Chad G. Paul C. Pastor Paul Cunningham.

Speaker 2:
[01:17] What's up, Carlos, man? How you doing, bro?

Speaker 1:
[01:19] Good. How are you?

Speaker 2:
[01:19] Come on, man. I'm doing good. Where's Pastor Josh at?

Speaker 1:
[01:21] Hey, Pastor Josh right now is actually in Greece. He is on a mission to convert the Greek Orthodox Church to the Greek Orthodox Church. He is probably eating a chicken Slovakia platter right now with the disciky sauce and a Greek salad. And he probably got inspired. He read Acts 17 and got inspired to go to Athens.

Speaker 2:
[01:39] Another place I have not been.

Speaker 1:
[01:41] You haven't been there?

Speaker 2:
[01:41] No, I haven't been there either.

Speaker 1:
[01:42] I'm sure we'll hear about this when he comes back.

Speaker 2:
[01:43] I'm sure I will.

Speaker 1:
[01:45] He's probably evangelizing to the Greek people, those with houses and the blue roofs.

Speaker 2:
[01:50] And Santorini.

Speaker 1:
[01:51] Yeah, beautiful ocean views. That's probably what he's doing right now.

Speaker 2:
[01:54] That's good, man.

Speaker 1:
[01:55] Hey, today we're going to have a good episode. By the way, we're coming to you from Lakepointe Church in Dallas, Texas. It's going to be great, bro. I'm excited for this one.

Speaker 2:
[02:01] Oh, it's going to be good.

Speaker 1:
[02:01] We are going to be talking about legalism, alcohol, tattoos, and weed. Basically all the things your mom told you to stay away from. That's what we're going to talk about today. Yeah. Bro, you got to drink with me.

Speaker 2:
[02:12] In honor of that, I was just like, man, if we're talking about it, let's just be ready to open one up.

Speaker 1:
[02:18] Thanks for getting me one.

Speaker 2:
[02:19] Well, listen, there's only one left. There's only one left. Now, just for clarity so people don't freak out, this is a root beer. This is a dad's root beer from Father's Day last year. I may take a drink, but if I die in the middle, this is because it's like very old.

Speaker 1:
[02:31] Bro, is this like leftover from like two years ago when we did this thing?

Speaker 2:
[02:34] I think it's like a few years old, so I hope I don't have to like run out because I get sick, but I did think when we were prepping for this, we had actually thought about putting like a real live can of beer on the table and thought maybe that's too edgy. And then I thought before this, Mike, we've put the Book of Mormon on this table. I think we put a Quran on this table, but man, low boat, if we put one beer on here, like the building might collapse on our heads.

Speaker 1:
[02:54] I don't think the Baptists will appreciate the beer here. Baptists and beer, I hear they don't go well together. We're gonna talk about that right now.

Speaker 2:
[03:00] No, they do not. Yeah, it'll be fun, man.

Speaker 1:
[03:02] So we're gonna be answering some questions such as, should Christians drink alcohol? What the Bible really says as you partake of your beer, by the way.

Speaker 2:
[03:11] That's not the answer for that root beer.

Speaker 1:
[03:12] Is it a sin to have a tattoo? Pastor Paul Cunningham, we're gonna go there. Should you get one or should you get another one? Because for honestly, probably a lot of our folks, they're like, yeah, should I get another one? That's the question.

Speaker 2:
[03:23] Once you get one, it becomes kind of addicting. I'm not saying I know from experience, but.

Speaker 1:
[03:27] Paul Cunningham might show us some of his tattoos. We're gonna have a little show until here. Although I'm not sure I wanna see that, but we'll see. We're gonna ask, is it okay for Christians to smoke weed or consume products with CBD? We're gonna be reacting to a Christian influencer, George Yangle, ask that question. It's gonna be fun, man. Hey, by the way, also, if you are part of the Live Free Nation and you ever come visit us in person, we would love to meet you. Come find us at any of our physical locations and our first time guest tent. We got a free gift for you. Here's a photo. Oh, Trinity, I did not give you this photo. Never mind. We're gonna save this for next time.

Speaker 2:
[04:01] It's all good, man.

Speaker 1:
[04:02] It's okay.

Speaker 2:
[04:03] It's fun. This past weekend, when I was just hanging out in the lobby, let's see, I met people from Idaho, Arizona, Michigan, Florida. A guy actually from Washington State was here for the first time. He was moving here. He felt like God had just led him in his heart to leave Washington State, leave Spokane and join us here. His first Sunday actually visiting, got himself a hat. It was awesome, man.

Speaker 1:
[04:22] Literally like every single week. There is not one week that I don't meet somebody that's like from literally a different state or a different country.

Speaker 2:
[04:28] So cool.

Speaker 1:
[04:29] It's crazy. Hey, also comment below if you're joining us on YouTube or Spotify, comment the word hat. Actually, no, let's change it up. Comment the word, Chat G Paul C. We want to give you some free merch. We got some hats here for the men and for the ladies as well. Finally, to find our daily Bible reading plan. Plus the weekly sermon, plus an early release of the Live Free Podcast, plus the Discipleship Guide that you can use to take to your life group. Download the Lakepointe Church App, text the word app to 20411 or go to Apple or Google Play Store. Okay. Paul.

Speaker 2:
[05:01] Yep.

Speaker 1:
[05:02] So last week, I think it was last week, you told me and my wife, Brooke, to go watch the movie, Project Hail Mary.

Speaker 2:
[05:10] Where is this going? Yes, I did.

Speaker 1:
[05:14] So I watched it. We watched it, man. We went to the movies. It's been a while. And so we checked it out. Okay.

Speaker 2:
[05:19] What were your thoughts?

Speaker 1:
[05:21] It's fine. Wow. I knew you were going to say. So, bro, honestly, this is why I like to watch trailers before watching movies, because it was not what I expected.

Speaker 2:
[05:30] What did you expect?

Speaker 1:
[05:31] I mean, not that.

Speaker 2:
[05:34] So did you think the alien was a demon?

Speaker 1:
[05:37] No.

Speaker 2:
[05:37] That was a joke from a previous episode, if you're new to the podcast, by the way. Go check out a previous episode.

Speaker 1:
[05:42] I will say, because I know we brought this up when we were talking about this. I'm going to say, first of all, I'm more of an Interstellar kind of guy than Project Hail Mary. Would you agree?

Speaker 2:
[05:51] Yeah. I think that fits you really well.

Speaker 1:
[05:53] Okay. You disagree with that?

Speaker 2:
[05:54] I'm tossing up what I like.

Speaker 1:
[05:56] Yeah. What do you think? Interstellar, much better than Project Hail Mary.

Speaker 2:
[05:59] I don't want to say they're different. I mean, both in a sense are space movies, but one is better than the other. One's very optimistic. That's Project Hail Mary. Really a lot more humor and fun. Interstellar has got a lot of the feels.

Speaker 1:
[06:09] Okay. So here's what I would, if somebody were to ask, hey, is Project Hail Mary with Ryan Gosling a Christian movie?

Speaker 2:
[06:16] Well, here we go.

Speaker 1:
[06:17] The answer is no, it's not. But hear me out, at its core, every good story that feels deeply true, in some ways, always points to the true story of the gospel and the biblical narrative. And so pay attention, next time you watch any movie, this is true. But first of all, by the way, semi-spoiler alerts coming in just a couple of seconds. If you haven't seen Project Hail Mary, mute the next 30 seconds of this video. I'm going to share some things, probably not much, but just in case you've been warned. Okay, here we go. So the movie is called Project Hail Mary. Now, Hail Mary is a Catholic prayer. We don't do that prayer. But behind that, there is a sense in which the movie is communicating. Men, people are kind of feeling, man, my situation feels impossible. And I'm desperately crying out for supernatural help. That's what that means. Also in the movie, there's a hero, one man who must potentially sacrifice himself to serve all of humanity. What's his name? Oh, his name is Grace. He wakes up from a coma surrounded by dead people. Kind of like being raised from the dead. His best friend is made out of a rock and he's called Rocky. You know, kind of like when Jesus' best friend, Peter, whose name means rock. The narrative of the story eventually moved towards sacrifice, salvation and a new humanity and a new creation. And at some point in the movie, I don't know if you caught this, somebody asks the main character, so you believe in God and he says it's better than the alternative. Again, I don't think the creators of the movie meant for this to be specifically Christian, but without even realizing it, I think it shows something that is actually true in our culture right now. I think we all have a deep sense that something is deeply wrong with our world and our culture is starving for hope, salvation, faith, and a hero that is outside of our natural realm. And so to quote CS. Lewis, if I find myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world.

Speaker 2:
[08:13] That's so good, man.

Speaker 1:
[08:14] Yes, no.

Speaker 2:
[08:14] Love that you brought in CS. Lewis. No, listen, I love it. I love it all. Love that you brought in CS.

Speaker 1:
[08:18] Yeah, you don't buy it at all. I know you, bro.

Speaker 2:
[08:19] Stop it.

Speaker 1:
[08:20] No.

Speaker 2:
[08:20] Oh my goodness. I get such a bad rap from this. I actually buy exactly what you're laying down, which is not a Christian movie, but it has themes. And so to your point, it's like all the things that resonate us and all the stories that we love, the things that resonate with us ultimately point to the capital S story, the story that God is writing. And so many of those themes are found and ultimately found their true meaning in that story. But I love that you brought CS. Lewis into this because I'm pretty sure he was a fan of alcohol. So he fits today. So I'm just trying to segue and get us eventually to there. No, you know.

Speaker 1:
[08:48] Okay, I didn't know that.

Speaker 2:
[08:50] Yeah, oh yeah.

Speaker 1:
[08:51] So he liked to drink?

Speaker 2:
[08:52] I mean, he was, yeah, he's British, man. I think that was just the norm in his day for where he was at. Hey bro, don't be racist. Whoa, well, I guess I'm not British. We're gonna save that racism for another. I've got half Irish, wow. Okay, it's fine. It's fine. That's a joke. But no, man, I love that movie. And I do think what you said, I think it's actually really resonating with people right now because man, we're in a tough world. We're in a tough season of the world. And I think people are clinging to or starving for is probably a better way to say, any form of hope they can find. And so I think there's a reason that's resonating. And what's cool, man, is obviously Christians, man, we've got the hope that can only be found in Jesus. And so that's it, man.

Speaker 1:
[09:26] Hey, Chris Berkeley crushed it this weekend.

Speaker 2:
[09:27] Oh, man, the patron saint of East Dallas, man, does such a good job. Everything he does.

Speaker 1:
[09:34] Man, Chris Berkeley, I got to honor Chris Berkeley. He has been, I would say, one of the most influential people in my life in the last seven years. I've had the blessing of working closely with him. He's been a blessing to me and my family. He's not only a godly man, he is a good friend, but he's an even better husband and father. Yes. So he's got my admiration for that. We're going to talk about what that means as well. But go ahead. What do you think of the message? What did it make to the sermon?

Speaker 2:
[09:59] Yeah. So if you haven't been able to listen to it yet, Matthew 23, really Jesus confronting hypocrisy and the religious leaders of his day. So talking to Pharisees and religious leaders and really confronting them on their hypocrisy. So I'll get in a minute, there was also something that wasn't the main focus, but it's also very present in Matthew 23 that Jesus consistently condemns. But man, just fantastic sermon. One thing that hit me, and I'm not sure if it made it into every iteration of a sermon, but there is some stats that Chris and I were talking about actually even before he gave the sermon that shows the power of hypocrisy in a bad way. In the sense of, man, if we are living with hypocrisy in our lives, it doesn't just affect us, it affects those around us, especially for claiming to bear the name of Jesus. And he gave this stat around parents and the insane influence that they have on their kids. And so there was a study done, it's been actually continuing on going, that started years back, decades back. The University of Notre Dame has been basically leading a guy named Christian Smith, who I think in the past year left Notre Dame, but he used to be there. One of the leading sociologists of our day, really trying to figure out what is it that keeps kids and students like teenagers in faith as they go into adulthood. So studying this for a long time, longitudinal study. It's been going on for decades. What they found is the single greatest determining factor is not just the faith, but the demonstrated faith of the parents. Not that the parents are perfect. That's what we got to be careful. When we talk about hypocrisy, we're not talking about perfection. Every single one of us fails to live up to our standards. The only person who's ever lived the Christian life perfectly, did it so well, they named it after him. That would be Jesus Christ himself. Well, we're talking about just not being fake, not trying to have one persona in public and another in private. So they were doing this study. Actually, I think we've got a slide that kind of shows this study. I remember reading this 10 years ago or so from Huffington Post. So if you're not familiar with Huff Post, not exactly a conservative bastion in terms of values and beliefs. So it really even floored me that they post this. But basically, here's what they found. Just 1% of the teens ages 15 to 17 that were raised by parents who attached little importance to religion, were still highly religious in their mid to late 20s. Let's say that again, 1% of the people that they were following that had, they had started when they were kids and in their teens, and now in their 20s were actually following Jesus. If they lived in a home where even if the parents said they were Christian, even if a case in which the churches, they didn't actually demonstrate it at home that it was a serious thing to them. Only 1% of those kids were now still following Jesus as they were young adults. But then they looked at the ones whose parents did live it out. Again, not perfectly, but they didn't just go to the church, they were there more often and even more importantly, they were living their faith out at home and talking about their faith. Whereas opposed to 1%, in those teens, 82% of those children were still walking with Jesus and active in their local church. Let's just say that out loud again. Wow. For the kids who grew up in homes where the parents lived out their faith, not just in public but in private, 82% of those kids were walking with Jesus when they were in adulthood. In places where they weren't, it went all the way down to 1%. I remember reading that 10 years ago and for a few things for me. One, it was just a ministry that we won't get into now. Wow, I got to re-think how I'm doing ministry. But number two, just for me as a parent, it really challenged me, especially just frankly being on staff at a church. It's easy for me to talk about faith in public. It's literally what I'm paid to do. But it just challenged me to say, hey, would my kids see the same thing when we're at home, around the ball field or when no one else can see but us? It just challenged me to make sure that the same faith I have in public is the same faith that I have in private. So that just re-challenged me. As Chris and I were talking about before and as he was talking about this weekend, just saying, man, parents, you have an outsized influence in your life that applies to me too. And it just challenged me to just to continue to up the game and make sure I'm demonstrating my faith in private as well as in public.

Speaker 1:
[13:39] Well, that's good. I think honestly, this shatters this individualistic idea that your faith is your own thing. And like, you know, you do you.

Speaker 2:
[13:48] Yep.

Speaker 1:
[13:49] Honestly, this is basically an immature idea that it's all about you and what's your preference. No, it's about your legacy. It's about your family. And in many ways, it's true what's been said. Your family is your resume. You know, I'm thinking for my family, man, I want to get to a point where like, man, I think it's great when, you know, somebody can come and recognize what you do. And that's awesome. But I want to go. I want to be able to go home. And my wife is excited to see me. And, you know, my children are excited to see me. And so I think that makes a lot of sense.

Speaker 2:
[14:20] And I would just say, like, if you're listening to this and you're not yet, you know, a dad or a mom, let's say you're even single, the time to be preparing for that is now. Now is what I have found is that marriage and parenthood don't make it to you. They amplify the person that you already are. And so whatever habits and rhythms you had in life before you enter into that, you carry into it. If anything gets harder to perpetuate those, not to start them. So if you're a person who's actively living out your faith and your friendships and in your home, if you're in the Word, if you're in prayer, you're going to continue to that. Meanwhile, if you haven't been, it's actually almost harder to start because it's just busier once you get a family. And so I had to say, if you're single, don't tune out what we were just saying. If anything, say, hey, the time to start getting into that and living your faith out in private is now because it'll be tested later. So yeah, that hit me. Anything else that you from it? Or just anything on hypocrisy in general? Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[15:10] I think that's great. So tell me more. I want to hear more about legalism.

Speaker 2:
[15:14] So yeah, so legal. So a big theme of Matthew 23, again, is hypocrisy. But what you also see in Matthew 23 is something that Jesus has already condemned the Pharisees and religious leaders for earlier in the book of Matthew. And basically, it's manmade rules. He said basically, you take manmade teachings and you pass them off as if they're God's rules themselves. So that's legalism. So some examples of this in Matthew 23. You have, for example, that idea of straining a gnat. He talks about how you strain a gnat, but you swallow a camel. What Jesus is referencing is the rabbinic practice of straining gnats from their wine. So a little bit of context. God had forbidden the Israelites to eat any kind of insects in the Old Testament, so he had given them this rule. But what Pharisees and religious leaders did is say, okay, but man, we've got to be hypervigilant because hey, what if a gnat lands in my wine and I drink it and then I'm disobeying God? So they would literally strain out a gnat from their wine to make sure they weren't disobeying the original commandment. But then here's what they would do, is that if you didn't do that, guess how they saw you? Oh, you were less holy than me. So they took something that was more of a manmade invention and they acted like this if this were a God-given rule. And those are two different things. That's one example. Another thing, at one point, Jesus talks about how, hey, you clean the outside of the cup, but inside you're full of all kinds of awful stuff. Now, Jesus was using this as an analogy, but he's also leaning into a bit of contention in that day. You had two different camps. Some people said that you had to clean only the outside, I mean, only the inside of the cup. Other people would say you had to clean the inside and the outside of the cup. Now, in the Old Testament again, God had given rules for cleaning ceremonial dishes, but guess who he had given them to? The priests. And so what a Pharisee wanted to do is say, well, hey, we want to be able to practice this and basically make our home into an altar, our dinner table into an altar. And if the priest did it, we want to do it too. And so again, they were taking something that originally was meant for a different context, but they said, hey, we're going to do this. And guess what? Again, if you didn't do it, you were less holy than them. So they're taking things that are manmade inventions but they're passing them off as God-given rules that everyone should follow. And that's legalism. There's really, legalism means two things. One thing it could mean is where you think you have to do things in order to be saved. I have to be a good enough person or I have to not do enough bad things. And if I don't do enough bad things, I do enough good things, eventually God will love me and he'll want to save me. That's one form of legalism. By the way, that is not the gospel and that is not the truth. Galatians 2.16 says, a person is not justified by the works of the law, but through faith in Jesus Christ. Ephesians 2 says, for by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not of your own doing, it is the gift of God, not the result of what? Of works, so that no one may boast. So listen, none of us can be good enough to get God to love us. Probably because guess what? God already does love us. John 3.16 does not say God sent his son and because he died, then he started loving us. No, he says, because God loved us, he sent his son and gave him for us. Carlos, we're about to say something.

Speaker 1:
[18:18] No, no, no, go ahead.

Speaker 2:
[18:19] It's just a reminder like, man, God already loves us and he died for us. That's what it says. There's nothing we do for him. But a second thing that legalism is, is basically thinking that you or others have to do or don't do something after God saved you, but that he never actually commanded us to do or don't do. You actually see this in Colossians 2. Paul talks about if with Christ you died to the elemental spirits of this world, why as if you were still live in the world, do you submit to regulations? Listen to this. Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch. Paul is basically giving things that these people are saying. According to human precepts and teachings, see there you get it again. It's not God-given rules, it's human-made rules. He says these indeed have an appearance of wisdom. In other words, if you even think about some things the Pharisees are doing, oh yeah, it makes sense. If you're not allowed to eat gnats, if you strain it out, that seems like actually a pretty good thing.

Speaker 1:
[19:11] Rules are not bad. No, they're not bad. Because then people think on the other side, if you just bring up any rule, oh, you're a legalistic, religious, fair-sacred, like chill. Rules are actually helpful.

Speaker 2:
[19:23] Exactly. Oh yeah, I was literally gonna jump into that next. Exactly. So what Paul is saying is saying, hey, these appear to be really wise, but actually what these are, again, these are manmade rules, not God-given rules, but these people are thinking I have to do these things now that I'm saved. So one form of legalism is I have to do things to be saved. Another form of legalism is I have to do things now that I'm saved, but they're rules that God never actually gave us to do or not to do. Makes sense so far?

Speaker 1:
[19:48] Makes sense, absolutely.

Speaker 2:
[19:49] Now, to your point, on the other side of this, a lot of people fall into basically a ditch on the other side of the road, and that is making the mistake of thinking that we don't have to obey God's commands. Like literally, Jesus says in the Book of John, if you love me, you will keep my commandments. So when we're obeying God, it's not that we're getting God to love us. We're obeying God because God already loves us. We're responding to what he's done, and we're just wanting to show our love for God. The way I like to think of it is that like, man, if I'm really serious about loving my wife and my family and about providing good guardrails for our family and for my marriage and protecting my purity, people are going to think, man, Paul is a really great husband and father, but then if I do that same thing for my God, I can be known as, you said, a legalist. So if I do it for my family, I'm a great family man, but if I do it for my God, I'm a legalist. It's a little bit of a double standard there. So what we're not saying is that, oh yeah, we're free to do whatever we want. Man, now that you're a Christian, live however you want, do whatever you want. He came to die so that you can be free of all rules and regulations. We're not saying that we're just simply saying that, hey, he did come to free us from manmade rules that don't apply to us. But here's the key thing, here's the tricky thing. And this leads into some of our topics for the day. How do you know which is which? How do you know as a Christian, hey, what are the things that God has commanded me to do and that I have to do or not do? And hey, what are some other things that maybe are just like cultural made rules, church made rules that actually God never gave us to do? And so I don't have to do it if I don't feel called to do it.

Speaker 1:
[21:20] So there's a little more freedom on some of these areas as well versus the things that the Bible makes it clear, hey, this is who you are as a Christian, this is what we do, this is what we don't do.

Speaker 2:
[21:28] Exactly. Because even like in Colossians, for example, like just a few verses after the ones I just mentioned about how Paul said, hey, this appears to be wise and people say, don't touch, don't taste, don't do these things. Here's what Paul says, literally just a few verses later, put to death therefore what is earthly in you, sexual morality, impurity, passion, evil desire, covetousness. On account of these, the wrath of God is coming. You too once walked in these ways, but now you must put them all the way, anger, wrath, malice, slander, and obscene talk from your mouth. So Paul isn't saying, oh yeah, go live however you want. He's simply saying, don't follow man-made rules, instead do what God is calling you to do and honor him with your life. So again though, now what we want to do the rest of our time together is, okay, let's take some hot button issues that have been there for a while, and even today, and say, okay, are these things that are man-made rules, or are these things that are God-given commands?

Speaker 1:
[22:17] Yeah, and honestly, man, so we're gonna go alcohol, tattoos, and weed, that combination, we couldn't get any more controversial than that. Now, I will say this, a lot of these topics, I feel like they used to be more controversial before. Now, it seems like, for whatever reason, it's kind of changing a little bit. I will say, I'm sure somebody might disagree or not like the fact that you're drinking root beer and kind of looks like something else.

Speaker 2:
[22:41] I feel like you're judging me for still drinking root beer because you're like, you're healthy.

Speaker 1:
[22:45] Not because it's alcohol, but for another reason.

Speaker 2:
[22:47] What's the other reason?

Speaker 1:
[22:48] Just, I don't like sugar.

Speaker 2:
[22:51] Yeah, you're like a water-only guy.

Speaker 1:
[22:53] Basically, yeah. Yeah, we're gonna see, now you're judging me.

Speaker 2:
[22:55] You have the triple purify, maybe I am. You have the triple purify. We're breaking Romans 14 through 15 right now. We're judging, which we'll get to in a ride. That's right, man. But, that's right. Yeah, well, I think some of this is cultural. At one point in my life, I was in Mississippi for about a decade, and they're still very conservative plays for men. If you know, typically, most Christians probably didn't drink in public, you know, they just had their beer at home kind of a thing. But then I moved up to Washington state and literally the church I went to, like they would have get togethers at breweries. And it was just a very normal thing in that culture. If you go over to Italy, very normal thing for people to drink while at the dinner. So some of it is cultural, some of it is generational.

Speaker 1:
[23:37] Okay. So we're going to bring clarity to that.

Speaker 2:
[23:38] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[23:39] Once and for all. After this episode, it's going to be 100 percent clear.

Speaker 2:
[23:41] 100 percent clear.

Speaker 1:
[23:42] And we're going to start with a video of somebody in the internet and they have an opinion. And so we're going to hear it. Trini, what you got? Isn't it so obvious that alcohol is from the devil? Like, just look at their names. I'd like to order a gin and tonic, please. Gin? Like, what?

Speaker 3:
[24:01] This is so creepy.

Speaker 1:
[24:03] Also, what type of alcohol is vodka? It's a spirit. That is so scary. When you drink alcohol, you literally become a different person. It's like you're possessed.

Speaker 2:
[24:12] Here's another.

Speaker 1:
[24:13] When you're drunk, they say you're under the influence, right? Under the influence of what? Of Satan.

Speaker 2:
[24:19] Eww.

Speaker 1:
[24:20] Also, when you're drunk, they say, Oh, I'm so wasted. Yes, I agree. Anything to do with alcohol is an absolute waste. Can Satan make himself any more clear? I'm never drinking alcohol again. What do you guys think?

Speaker 2:
[24:35] I really wish I had an Australian accent, man.

Speaker 1:
[24:38] Bro, that's so much cooler.

Speaker 2:
[24:39] It would sound so compelling, like man, what he said has to be right, it has to be right.

Speaker 1:
[24:44] Okay, so Paul, let's answer that question. What does the Bible actually say about alcohol?

Speaker 2:
[24:51] So I will say, as I jump in, that I would actually say this is a textbook example of legalism. Because remember, Colossians said it appears to have a form of wisdom, and so much of what she was saying appears to sound good.

Speaker 1:
[25:02] Yeah, and I would say we'll talk about this, but there are some elements of truth in what she said.

Speaker 2:
[25:05] There are some elements of truth in there, for sure. There are some good things. And by the way, we're going to give some guard relative to what the Bible teaches and doesn't teach, for sure. But I think this is actually a good textbook example where it sounds really good. But actually, when you go to scripture, it kind of falls apart a little bit in how black and white she is making it. OK, so the Bible clearly teaches a few things in regards to alcohol. Number one, and this might rub some people wrong, it clearly describes alcohol as a good gift from God that people can enjoy.

Speaker 1:
[25:30] OK, say that one more time. A good gift from God that people can enjoy.

Speaker 2:
[25:35] The Bible clearly describes alcohol as a good gift from God that people can enjoy. So a few examples of this. Psalm 104, 14 and 15, You cause the grass to grow for the livestock and plants for man to cultivate. That, OK, so when it says that, this is the purpose. So the reason God causes grass to grow and for the livestock and plants for man to cultivate, that he may bring forth food from the earth and wine to gladden the heart of man, and oil to make his face shine and bread to strengthen his man's heart. Kind of shoots a hole in the globe, gluten-free thing right there on that last one. No offense if you are a gluten-free person. Go ahead.

Speaker 1:
[26:11] I'm sure some other people are.

Speaker 2:
[26:13] Yeah, but literally it says right there, the reason, like God, one of the reasons God causes grass to grow and everything to make is so that he could let people make wine to gladden the heart.

Speaker 1:
[26:22] There you go.

Speaker 2:
[26:22] Ecclesiastes is very similar. Ecclesiastes 9, 7, Go and eat your bread with joy and drink your wine with a merry heart, for God has already approved of what you do. I mean, then we go to the New Testament. Literally like Jesus turns water in to wine.

Speaker 1:
[26:37] First miracle.

Speaker 2:
[26:37] First miracle. Like first miracle in the Book of John, he multiply and he makes a lot of it. He makes these massive, massive, that's what now I know in a bit you may push back or you may push back what people give. Yeah, go ahead.

Speaker 1:
[26:51] So Paul, hold on. But Jesus. So some people will actually say this seriously. Jesus didn't actually drink fermented wine. His wine was not fermented. It was not alcoholic. True or false?

Speaker 2:
[27:07] False. Wine by definition literally has to be like fermented.

Speaker 1:
[27:11] Are you pulling a Dwight from the office?

Speaker 2:
[27:13] I was pulling a little bit of it. I was watching the office last night. It was in my mind and in my blood right there. Yeah. Okay. So a few facts around this and things that are misconceptions. Yes, the wine in their day was diluted. In fact, it was kind of seen as barbaric. You didn't dilute your wine or alcohol in any kind of a way. But we also know for a fact historically and from the Bible, that it still had alcohol in it. It still was fermented. A few things. I mean, number one, literally throughout the New Testament, there are instructions not to get drunk on wine. If this is the same word that is used of what Jesus makes, why would they have to give that prohibition to be very diluted? Let's just even talk practically. Even, for example, in the Book of Corinthians, Paul literally says, hey, you guys are getting together, you're having church, and you're doing communion, and some of you are drinking so much of the wine, you're getting drunk. Again, it has to be alcoholic. Even if it was diluted, and it was, if it was insanely diluted, it's like 1%. Do you know how much wine they would have had to have been drinking to get drunk? They would have had to go to the bathroom long before they would have ever gotten drunk. That's how much wine they're drinking kind of thing.

Speaker 1:
[28:18] Yeah, but Jesus brought a lot, right? Jesus brought a lot to the party.

Speaker 2:
[28:21] He did. He brought a lot.

Speaker 1:
[28:23] Okay. And somebody would say, but why would Jesus bring something that might cause other people to stumble and get drunk if that's a sin?

Speaker 2:
[28:29] I go back to this case to Psalm 104. What does it talk about? It says how he gives grass to grow for livestock and all these things to do what? To make food. Well, wait a second. People can take food, which is a good gift from God, but use it for what? Gluttony.

Speaker 1:
[28:43] Yeah, we receive the food from God. I have the volition to just eat as much as I can.

Speaker 2:
[28:49] Exactly. We abuse God's good gift and it becomes gluttony. Or even think another place of food in the Old Testament. When God gives manna, he gives manna to the Israelites, but then he also gives instructions to say, hey, you've got to collect it all day. You can't collect it and everything. But guess what the people do? They disobey his instructions. So God, same thing. He gives parameters around a good gift, but then they use it in a bad way and then it becomes bad. Same thing with wine. Now is a little, I will say this, it is still a little different. It's much harder for me to become a glutton and live a gluttonous lifestyle. Well, I'll say that for some people it's not. But I would say, yeah, I get drunk way quicker than I get full. I can literally take a few glasses of a strong drink and be drunk. It would take a lot of food to fill me up unless I go to a Mexican restaurant or something.

Speaker 1:
[29:31] So you're saying obviously alcohol can be a blessing from God. Honestly, it's interesting because if you check out all throughout church history, like Christians generally speaking, they've known that wine and other alcoholic beverages have been received as a blessing. Like this is just kind of like church history. In medieval Europe, monasteries were known as brewing and wine making places. At the time, it was often safer than water to drink beer, and so monks were known to make a lot of beer. John Calvin's Geneva salary as a pastor included 250 gallons of wine for hospitality. I did not know this. No. He was well compensated. You could say 250 gallons. Martin Luther's wife, Katrina Van Bora ran a large household, brewed beer and Martin Luther praised her what she did. Beer was important to the Puritans. It wasn't until 157 years ago that Thomas Welsh, who was a Methodist layman and dentist, made unfermented wine, aka what we know today as grape juice. He did it specifically for churches wanting alcohol-free communion. And this is kind of where the whole modern communion grape juice tradition begins. And so that happened 157 years ago. Again, more than likely, we know historically Jesus didn't drink Welsh. Exactly.

Speaker 2:
[30:47] There you go. Otherwise, they would not have to give prohibitions about getting drunk on that wine.

Speaker 1:
[30:52] So it's a blessing. You mind if I just keep...

Speaker 2:
[30:54] Yeah, no, keep going. What else would you say in terms of what the Bible says in this?

Speaker 1:
[30:56] So I agree. So obviously, that's clear. Old Testament, New Testament, man, it's a blessing. Having said that, I do think we need to clarify, and the Bible also gives us a boundary. So we get a blessing and a boundary, and the boundary clearly commands people not to get drunk. So that's also clear. Ephesians 5, verse 18, do not get drunk with wine, but be filled with the Spirit. Galatians 5, verse 19, now the works of the flesh are evident. There's a whole list, sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, verse 20, idolatry, envy, drunkenness, orgies and things like these. I warn you, and again, this is very serious. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Verse 24, this is important. Those who belong to Christ have crucified the flesh with his passions and desires. So alcohol can be a blessing, but the Bible gives us a boundary. Don't get drunk. Here's why. Because number three, we would say, man, the Bible also says alcohol can be dangerous.

Speaker 2:
[31:52] That's right.

Speaker 1:
[31:53] Proverbs 23 verse 29, this is what it says. Who has anguish? Who has sorrow? Who is always fighting? Who is always complaining? That's a lot of social media these days. Who has unnecessary bruises? Who has bloodshot eyes? It is the one who spends long hours in the taverns, trying out new drinks, don't gaze at wine, seeing how red it is, how it sparkles in the cup, how smoothly it goes down. For in the end, it bites like a poisonous snake and it stinks like a viper. Every time somebody gets drunk in the Bible, it goes poorly. You see Noah, Lot, Nabal and others get drunk in the Old Testament. The result tends to be shame, sexual sin, death and more. Other verses also connect alcohol with violence, poverty, impaired leadership, and divine judgment. And so we would say if somebody were asking, generally speaking, we're about to go into a little bit more details here. Generally speaking, alcohol can be received as a blessing. When received, there should be a boundary. Don't get drunk. But when you consume it, the Bible says be aware of its dangers.

Speaker 2:
[32:53] That's exactly right. And I think, you know, like with that, a few, well, actually, let me just kind of cut to this. When people ask me this question, I've get asked this question before. I'm sure I'll get it after this and everything. My favorite is when like teenagers, when I was a student pastor, would ask me this. Yeah, you were a student pastor. They ever ask you this? Absolutely. And I'm like, why are you asking me this? You're 15, bro. And everything, you and I both know why they're asking it at that point. They wanted to be so affirmed in what they were already doing on the weekends, man. But no, when people ask me, I tell them, usually I'm like, yeah, you are free as a Christian to drink alcohol. But hey, I give three guidelines in terms of how to do that well and how to do that right in a way that honors God and other people. Number one, do it legally. Do it legally. Here in America, that's 21. Also, man, we have laws against being drunk and driving. Like we have those things, a certain blood, a blood alcohol limit, and don't do that. Do it legally. Number two, do it responsibly. So don't get drunk, but also don't become dependent on it. So don't be drunk, but also don't become dependent because I've known people who they would not get drunk, not even borderline tipsy, but what would end up happening is they'd have long days and they found that the only way that they could unwind, the only way they could relax at the end of a long day was to have a glass of wine or a glass or two of wine. More getting drunk, but that was just their way of coping. And then what was happening is they were becoming dependent on that to bring them down after a day, and they weren't taking that long day to God himself. And so as an example of how, man, even if you don't get drunk, you can become dependent. So, number one, do it legally. Number two, do it responsibly. And number three, do it respectfully. This is a massive one that people miss. I missed it, frankly, when I was younger. So, you know, I grew up in my great home. Man, great, you know, in our home, it wasn't like just frowned upon to drink, but my parents didn't drink. But man, when I was 21-

Speaker 1:
[34:44] You were in your Baptist?

Speaker 2:
[34:45] Yeah, my dad was a Baptist pastor, Southern Baptist pastor, and he was not strong anti-alcohol. He just didn't do it. He felt the personal conviction, which we'll get to in a bit. He just felt the personal conviction that we don't have to. But his grip in the culture was normal. I'm 21, and I decided I'm going to drink. Now, I get drunk, but I'm gonna drink. But I had this kind of attitude of-

Speaker 1:
[35:01] In college?

Speaker 2:
[35:02] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[35:03] Did you go to Christian's College?

Speaker 2:
[35:04] I did, but they didn't have a rule against it. You just couldn't drink on campus.

Speaker 1:
[35:06] Rebellious Paul Cunningham.

Speaker 2:
[35:07] I know, this isn't like-

Speaker 1:
[35:08] Oh, I gotta be careful.

Speaker 2:
[35:09] I'm starting naming names of colleges. And if they're listening, I don't wanna- We love you too. Name it. I'm not naming names or locations somewhere around the Greenville, South Carolina area. Okay, anyways, I'm joking. There's multiple colleges around there.

Speaker 1:
[35:24] Y'all can figure that out.

Speaker 2:
[35:25] Anyways, okay, so-

Speaker 1:
[35:26] They know who they are.

Speaker 2:
[35:27] They know who they are. Okay, so I had this attitude, though, because it was a Christian college, and there were some for more conservative backgrounds. So even when they turned 21, they didn't do it. I was almost like anti-legalist. I was like, you know what? I'm gonna do it. And if you have a problem with that, why don't you just keep your pharisaical attitude and opinions to yourself? Wow. I was just all about it. But then the problem was I read the Bible.

Speaker 1:
[35:47] This is the same space, by the way. We're here confessing sins.

Speaker 2:
[35:50] Welcome home.

Speaker 1:
[35:51] Welcome home.

Speaker 2:
[35:52] Hey, hypocrisy, man. We all got some stuff we're working on. The problem, though, is, you know, I read the Bible. Okay.

Speaker 1:
[35:59] Yeah, that will do it.

Speaker 2:
[36:00] I eventually read, for example, the Book of Romans. And in Romans 14 and 15, it's actually, what's happening there for a little context before I read, is that Jews and Gentile Christians are fighting with each other. One group, Jewish people, they don't eat a certain kind of meat. We don't really know all the contours and the details, but hey, there's some kind of meat they're not eating. Some people think it was maybe a sacrifice to an idol or just something else. But then the Gentile Christians felt the freedom to do that, and they were both judging each other. They were better than each other. The Jews were saying, well, we're more strict in following God. The Gentiles were like, we're more free in Christ than you are. So they're looking down on each other, and it was causing a rift. And basically, Paul comes in and he says, hey, that meat is not sinful. But if, hey, Jewish person, if you feel like you're convicted not to, then don't. But hey, Gentile Christian, guess what? If you're doing it in front of them causing the stumble, you're actually in the wrong. So I was reading, like, that's a little bit of context, and this is literally what Paul says.

Speaker 1:
[36:53] Basically, it's not all about you.

Speaker 2:
[36:55] It's not all about you.

Speaker 1:
[36:55] If you're a Christian, that's a principle.

Speaker 2:
[36:57] You may have the freedom to do it, and that's the key thing. This is gonna sound like a little bit of a contradiction, but you may have the freedom to do it, but you actually may not be free to do it if it's causing a fellow brother in Christ or a non-Christian to stumble. So like, here, I'll just read it for you. Romans 14 says, decide never, this is verse 13, to put a stumbling block or a hindrance in the way of a brother. I know and I am persuaded in Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself. Paul here isn't talking about things like heroin, so please don't take that out of context. He's talking about food.

Speaker 1:
[37:27] He said nothing, Paul.

Speaker 2:
[37:27] He's talking about food in the context. I'll read the Bible in context. But it is unclean for anyone who thinks it's unclean, for if your brother is greed by what you eat, you are no longer walking in love. This is where it gets even more clear. Do not for the sake of food destroy the work of God. Everything is indeed clean, but it is wrong for anyone to make another stumble by what he eats. Listen to this. It is not good to eat meat or drink wine or do anything that causes your brother to stumble. I read that and I think, well, crap. Maybe I've had the wrong attitude. Then I go to 1 Corinthians, and I'm not going to read the whole passage. 1 Corinthians 9 where Paul talks about how he's surrendering his rights. He had rights he could take advantage of, but he said he put them down and why. This is the passage where he goes and he says, to the Jew, I became a Jew to win Jews, to the Greek, I became a Greek to win the Greek. He said, I did everything to be able to win and that God might use me to save some. He surrendered his rights. So all that long story short, I don't want to do anything that puts a stomach block in front of my fellow Christians or non-Christians so that I hinder the gospel from coming to them or I lose respect in their eyes.

Speaker 1:
[38:35] Yeah, you'll find a theme as we, because we're about to talk about tattoos and also we'll find a theme as well. Honestly, like again, one, it's not all about you.

Speaker 2:
[38:45] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[38:45] Right. So again, it's this idea. If you're a Christian, it is not just about you. It's about your legacies, about your communities, about your relationship with other people. You're part of a body. The Bible calls a church. And so when we have these conversations, we don't just ask, well, I like it or this is my background. And like you said, you know, I'm 21 or whatever. And I can, I'm free to do it. So I'm going to do it. I think that's something to consider. Another thing, go ahead.

Speaker 2:
[39:09] Oh, no, well, yeah, you go. I was actually going to ask you questions, but you might, you might get where I was. I just had some questions that came to mind. You go.

Speaker 1:
[39:14] Another thing that I would say, if you pay attention in culture, this is really interesting. As I was prepping for our conversation today. So culturally speaking, alcohol is actually losing popularity right now. Time released an article in 2025 called Why Gen Z is Drinking Less. And it says, adults under 35 who drink dropped from 72% to 62%. Youth drinking has been dropping since the year 2000. And it seems to suggest, I mean, there's some explanations. Some might think that some are actually smoking weed or other things instead of drinking alcohol. There's another article. Gallup released this article. Overall, this is what it says. Overall, US adult drinking hit 54%. That's the lowest in 90 years. Wow. Young adults 18 to 34 dropped to 50% and the majority of people in our country right now believe, this is interesting, the majority of people in our country now believe even moderate drinking is actually unhealthy and bad for you. So there's a trend right now that's just kind of, you know, so as we have this conversation, in addition to what we said that the Bible teaches on alcohol, I think there's a couple of things that I would say you want to consider as a Christian.

Speaker 2:
[40:22] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[40:23] One, I would say, man, also, what does your conscience say?

Speaker 2:
[40:26] That's good.

Speaker 1:
[40:26] Romans 14, you addressed it, Paul, basically, something can be permissible or allowed. But if your conscience says no, you shouldn't do it. You should not go against, you know, and I think that could be the case for you. Another one, I would say, man, is this something that's leading you towards addiction? Everybody, not everybody is prone towards addiction the same way. I think addiction, and also I would say this, addiction is much more spiritual than you think. And so to the credit of the video we just saw, here's what I would say to Ephesians 5, verse 18. Again, it says, do not get drunk with wine, but do the opposite. There's a little bit of a contrast there. Don't get drunk with wine, but be filled with the Spirit. So you can be under the influence of the Holy Spirit, or you can be under the influence of a Spirit, which is the word, by the way, we use for distilled alcohol, vodka, whiskey. The New Testament word for addiction is actually what the Bible calls a stronghold. And it refers to when something or someone that is stronger than you is using something that you're addicted to to enslave you. And so when somebody is addicted to, like, alcohol, for example, they'll say things like, man, I got this thing inside of me, this urge, and it just kind of makes me want to do things that I know that I shouldn't be doing, or I kind of need to stop, but I keep going. And it leads towards hurt and loss and foolishness. And I'm no longer in control of it, but it is in control of me. And that's literally what the Bible says. It's called a slave. It's enslaving you. And so the Bible describes that in terms of spiritual activity. That's what demons do. Demons lead you towards hurt, loss, foolishness. Every single thing around you is more spiritual than you think.

Speaker 2:
[42:06] That's right.

Speaker 1:
[42:07] And so, you know, one thing you need to watch out if that's maybe the case for you, if you're sensing, man, is this something that could lead me towards an addiction? If you have family members or friends, if you're surrounded by people that may be wrestled with this, there's something to consider. Here's another one. Maybe it's legal, maybe it's permissible. Yeah, but is it wise? I think for me, you know, we're making it personal here in this season. Like honestly, I don't drink alcohol at all.

Speaker 2:
[42:32] I was about to ask.

Speaker 1:
[42:33] Okay. And I've gone, you know, and again for me in this season, I've gone through some health issues. We can, I can share those, share that later. But once you research alcohol, like really right now, and this is part of why a lot of people are kind of moving away from it. The current scientific consensus as of 2026 from all major health organization is clear. There is no truly safe level of alcohol consumption for overall health. The 2025 to 2030 US dietary guidelines basically shifted away from saying, hey, safe in moderation to now they're just saying, hey, the less alcohol you consume, the better for your health. And so again, now, hey, well, it's relaxing. That's okay. Can it be redeemed? Absolutely. Is there a place for it? Absolutely. Does wine have some antioxidant? Yes. Yes, it does. Praise the Lord for freedom. But for me, in this season, it would not be wise. And again, just for other people, maybe again, a family member that come from addiction experiences, it might not be wise. And so that's something that you want to consider as well.

Speaker 2:
[43:35] That's right. Well, so I was going to ask you, so you don't drink right now, but for you, it's a little bit more of a wisdom thing. That's right. A little bit maybe of a conscience, like, hey, for you, right now, you just don't feel like you need a drink. Doesn't feel like if you were doing it, it would be a sin. You just say, hey, we're right now where I'm at.

Speaker 1:
[43:49] Yeah. And again, it'd be, I feel free. My conscience feels free, but wisdom tells me no.

Speaker 2:
[43:56] Yeah. And that's awesome.

Speaker 1:
[43:57] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[43:58] And that's awesome, by the way. Yeah. And I think actually something you said, we probably should say this is like, again, this is one of those things that it can be a gift that God gives us. The Bible clearly says that, and it is an easy one to your point and easier than a lot of the other gifts that God gives us. It can be very easy to abuse and get to a really, a really hard place where, like you said, it's a stronghold in your life. And listen, if you're listening or watching this, and especially if you're here local to the Dallas area, you don't have to do that alone. In fact, you can't do it alone.

Speaker 1:
[44:27] That's right.

Speaker 2:
[44:27] Like this is one of those beasts that you cannot stand.

Speaker 1:
[44:29] By the way, not just that, that's you. Hey, you want to bring it to the light.

Speaker 2:
[44:34] Exactly.

Speaker 1:
[44:35] To people that love you, that are cheering you on, that are for you and want the best of you.

Speaker 2:
[44:39] Exactly. The devil plays in darkness. It's something we like to say here. And the way you get to him to lose powers, you bring it into the light and you bring it to others. So we have something here called Regen. It's something that we do regionally. We do a couple of locations here at Lakepointe and meets weekly in the different seasons of the year. And really what it is, it's not just for people who are strong with alcohol, it's for people who are strong with all kinds of things. It could be co-dependency issues, other forms of addiction, or even just some kind of a stroke or a stronghold in their life that they want to get free from. And what you'll find there is a place where other people that are dumb, I'm just telling you about like the worship services that are part of this are probably some of the best, if not the best at all of Lakepointe. In terms of just the vibe in the room, because what you have in there are people who, when you walk in there, everybody immediately is saying, I'm broken and I need help. There is no pretense. There's no like, oh yeah, my life's good. It's like, dude, if you're there, you're admitting you have some kind of a problem you need help with.

Speaker 1:
[45:31] That's where freedom happens.

Speaker 2:
[45:32] And then to watch them worship, I'm getting chills right now thinking about it, is one of the most incredible experiences you could ever experience. And so it's a place where you get to worship, but then also you get into community and you get to share your struggles. And again, when you're sharing, you're not alone. You're with other people who've got their own stuff, but what they're finding is they each have in common a hope in Christ that can help them overcome whatever they're struggling with and community help them. So if you want to get into that, or maybe you know someone who needs to, and you're like, okay, what do I do? Here, you would text REGEN to 20411. That's REGEN, I think we'll maybe even put on the screen for you. REGEN to 20411. If you're not in this area, I would just tell you right now, man, there's so many places locally. Find a place at a church, get some help, and get out of this. One thing before we move to tattoos, because I think what I wanted to draw out was really a principle that people could use in a ton of different places, because we're talking today just about alcohol and tattoos and can I smoke weed, but really this is something you need to be able to do for every area, because again we're trying to say, okay, how do I know what has God committed all people, all Christians everywhere for all time to do versus, hey, what maybe do I have freedom to do or not do, and how do I tell the difference?

Speaker 1:
[46:38] Well, hey, Lakepointe family, Baptism Weekend here at Lakepointe is coming up on May 2nd and 3rd, and if you're part of our church family here in any of our DFW physical locations and you have not yet taken that step of baptism, hey, we would love to invite you to do so. Text the word LIFE to 20411 to sign up today. And by the way, if you're not within driving distance of any of our physical locations, we would love to encourage you to get plugged in to a local Bible-believing, Jesus-loving church and take that step of baptism with a local community as well. Also, you're welcome to join us for Church Online to celebrate those getting baptized here at Lakepointe on May 2nd and 3rd as well. And now back to the podcast.

Speaker 2:
[47:20] So I'll actually put a diagram that I first found from a guy named Von Roberts that will kind of really, in a sense, encapsulate what you and I just did. We didn't tell people what we were doing, but we really were doing this. And we're going to then do this for tattoos and for weed kind of as a path for us. So a simple flowchart, if you are listening to this and not watching, if you can kind of imagine kind of a decision flowchart where, depending on your answer, it takes you in different directions. So, man, whenever you're talking about a specific issue of like, hey, can I drink alcohol? Can I get a tattoo? Can I smoke weed? Whatever it is, can I go watch Game of Thrones? Okay. So first question you gotta ask is, man, does the Bible allow it? If no, then don't do it. Now, with this, I will say, you have to look for explicit biblical commands, but that's not all you have to look for, because some people say, well, the Bible doesn't say anything about abortion, and it doesn't say anything about online sports gambling. Well, the Bible doesn't say anything about me vandalizing the graves of fallen soldiers, but I think we would all think it was evil and sinful. I don't need an explicit Bible verse. I can also have implicit principles. For example, there might be some things that are not explicitly laid out in the Bible, but the Bible does say to obey the authorities, and so if there's a law against something, then I can't do it, even if I can't find a Bible verse for it. So it's not just about finding a simple, clear Bible verse. You also have to look for other implicit principles. Someone, does the Bible allow it? If not, don't do it. If yes, you have to go to the next question. Does my conscience allow it? You brought this up earlier. For some people, even if the Bible is okay with you doing it, there's something in them that feels wrong when they do it. So for example, let's go back to alcohol. Maybe someone grew up in an alcoholic family or they've seen it devastate, and they just feel like they can't be around it and they can't drink it, and if they do, they're doing something wrong. Well, the Bible says in Romans, anything done from without faith is sin. If you don't do it in faith, meaning if this twinges your conscience, don't do it then. Okay? But hey, if your conscience allows it, okay, then next three questions, and just the final three. How does it affect other Christians? How does it affect other non-Christians? And how does it affect my spiritual life? So if the Bible allows it, and if your conscience allows it, you still need to ask those further three questions, because as we talked about with alcohol, but it applies to others. If I'm doing something, that even if the Bible in my conscience allows, if it's hurting my respect before other Christians, or if it's causing them to stumble, like as an example, if someone's struggling with alcohol, I'm an idiot if I take them to a bar, and I'm causing them to stumble. I'm not going to have a beer in front of them, I'm just not. I'm not going to drink in public where I'm at now. There's too many people that don't know, and they're on the contacts, I'm just not going to do that. I don't want to cause this dummy block. So like in that case, don't do it. But then also, how does it affect my spiritual life? So for example, on this one, get off alcohol and get off all these things we're talking about. Like I remember when I had graduated college, took a year to work before I went on to seminary. It would come home, long day of work. And man, I would just get on the PlayStation and play video games and nothing like brutal and violent.

Speaker 1:
[50:11] PlayStation 1, is that what it is? Wow. Wow. Well, I'm just genuinely curious, PlayStation 1?

Speaker 2:
[50:17] I think you just took a shot at my age.

Speaker 1:
[50:19] Is that what it is?

Speaker 2:
[50:20] Atari, actually. Atari, yeah, there you go. I love how I'm 42, I've got to be there for Atari and every other game station. I mean, you can remember PlayStation 1, right? Huh?

Speaker 1:
[50:28] PlayStation 1, right?

Speaker 2:
[50:29] Yes, I was there for it.

Speaker 1:
[50:30] In college? Yeah. I'm saying that's what you played.

Speaker 2:
[50:33] Well, actually in college, yeah, PlayStation. Actually, I think we're in PlayStation 2.

Speaker 1:
[50:38] We only have five, so we're on that.

Speaker 2:
[50:39] We had Xbox, we had Halo for Xbox, bro. Even GoldenEye was still big at that time. You're looking at-

Speaker 1:
[50:44] That's 64, bro. I played GoldenEye.

Speaker 2:
[50:46] Okay, yeah. I was also there when they signed the Constitution. Anyway, it's okay.

Speaker 1:
[50:51] When Pong was invented, you were like, wow, this is amazing.

Speaker 2:
[50:55] Dude. That's a joke.

Speaker 1:
[50:56] Okay. Too much. Keep going.

Speaker 2:
[50:58] Oh, man. I feel so attacked.

Speaker 1:
[51:00] I need to go like, okay, go ahead. Okay.

Speaker 2:
[51:02] So I wasn't playing anything violence or anything like that. I would just play like MLB baseball as my go-to, but here's what I found myself doing. Is I would be playing this for like two or three hours. And what I found is, is the more time I was on it, there was also a direct relationship between that and how anxious I was getting, and how frustrating I was getting, how quick tempered I was getting, and an inverse relationship or ratio to how much time with God I was spending. And so I basically had to make a rule for myself that, hey, does the Bible allow me playing game over game baseball? Yes. Does my conscious allow it? Yes. But then I got to the last question, how does it affect my spiritual life? Hey, I had to rein it in. I'm basically said, I'm allowed one 45-minute game, and then it's off. So I just use that even as like something that's really, really neutral to say, hey, this is just a good grid to take yourself through, to make sure you're making wise decisions that honor Christ.

Speaker 1:
[51:50] And that's wise. Honestly, you said it, man. That's wisdom. That's maturity. That's beyond the encyclopedic view of yes, no, okay, or not okay. No, there's levels to this, bro. So let's do tattoos, bro. I was this week, I was texting Pastor Josh as we made it clear that he is abroad. And he said, man, I'm thinking about getting a couple of tattoos in Greece.

Speaker 2:
[52:12] He's been hesitant before.

Speaker 1:
[52:13] He's talked about getting like a Tetelecite tattoo or whatever. And so he got one.

Speaker 2:
[52:20] No, he didn't.

Speaker 1:
[52:20] Bro, he texted me the photo.

Speaker 2:
[52:21] No, he did not.

Speaker 1:
[52:23] So I don't know if I'm allowed to share it because he kind of like just, you know, but I think I think it's okay.

Speaker 2:
[52:27] I mean, what's he going to do?

Speaker 1:
[52:28] I think he's not here.

Speaker 2:
[52:28] And by the time he sees this, it's over.

Speaker 1:
[52:30] I think it's okay. If not, we can take down the video. So this is Pastor Josh right here getting a tattoo. He was not having a great time as he was getting it clearly.

Speaker 2:
[52:40] I see some tears in his eyes.

Speaker 1:
[52:41] And then he sent me another one of the one he got on here. There you go. There you go.

Speaker 2:
[52:48] Just so people know.

Speaker 1:
[52:49] If you're on YouTube or Spotify, by the way, or sorry, if you're not on YouTube or Spotify right now, we're showing a photo of Pastor Josh with a cat on his hand. And the other one.

Speaker 2:
[52:58] Which means it's real.

Speaker 1:
[52:59] Which means it's a hundred percent real. And it means for sure this was not made with AI. And for sure, this Chad GPT Image Generator was not used in the making of these photos. No, that's definitely a selfie from Greece. And then if you go to the other one as well, like again, actually, no, just kidding. Okay, there you go. That's hilarious. But I actually got that photo from Pastor Josh on vacation. And I don't know how, but it looks like legit.

Speaker 2:
[53:25] It actually does look legit.

Speaker 1:
[53:26] And by the way, if somebody didn't get it, that's a joke.

Speaker 2:
[53:27] That's a joke. Yeah, just so you know, so you're not flooding his inbox and his social, hey, what's your tattoo? And stuff like that. If you come in person, you're going to be disappointed. He still does not have a tattoo.

Speaker 1:
[53:36] Okay. So let's talk about tattoos, man. What does the Bible say about tattoos?

Speaker 2:
[53:39] Well, I mean, do you have a tattoo?

Speaker 1:
[53:41] Okay. So I don't have a tattoo and we're going to-

Speaker 2:
[53:43] I thought you got one in your lower back one time.

Speaker 1:
[53:45] No. So in just a second, definitely not for sure. But Paul, in just a second, I want to ask you, actually, you have a tattoo. I want to ask you why you have a tattoo. And I want to share why I do not have tattoos. And then I want to explain why you're wrong.

Speaker 2:
[53:58] Listen, let's just go ahead, especially because you asked what is the Bible teach about it? I mean, obviously I'm going to be a little biased. So yes, I have multiple tattoos.

Speaker 1:
[54:05] Okay. You're very impartial right now. Go ahead and teach us what the Bible teaches about tattoos.

Speaker 2:
[54:08] So I might as well show. So I got two tattoos.

Speaker 1:
[54:10] Okay. Whoa, what are you doing?

Speaker 2:
[54:12] I'm just showing my tattoos.

Speaker 1:
[54:13] Okay, calm down. Don't get too excited.

Speaker 2:
[54:14] I should go back to that diagram and how does it affect others. It might be causing you to stumble right now.

Speaker 1:
[54:18] Definitely not. But I'm just saying more so, nobody wants to see that. But go ahead.

Speaker 2:
[54:22] Listen, okay. I'll try not to make people stumble. Show them my arm. Okay. I can't. There we go. There we go.

Speaker 1:
[54:27] Hey, bro. What are you doing?

Speaker 2:
[54:30] It's instinctive. You flex when you're on the camera.

Speaker 1:
[54:33] You can show your arm without having to flex your triceps.

Speaker 2:
[54:35] I'm sorry. If the tattoo doesn't make you stumble, I apologize for the arm.

Speaker 1:
[54:39] Hey, it's okay. I'm just trying to help you over here.

Speaker 2:
[54:43] All right. So this one comes from both of the two. First two that I got is one on each arm. Comes from Ephesians 2. This one is Technon Orgase, which literally means child of wrath.

Speaker 1:
[54:52] Wait, is that in Greek?

Speaker 2:
[54:53] This is in Greek. So I will say, hey, I want to offer my services because this can go really wrong. If you want to get a tattoo in Greek or Hebrew, okay, feel free to send me what you're thinking before you get it.

Speaker 1:
[55:04] Email Paul to double check that the tattoo is exactly what you think it says.

Speaker 2:
[55:08] Exactly, because I have seen unfortunate incidents where people thought that they were saying something and it was something very different in the original language. So just feel free to send me your Greek and Hebrew tattoos and I will confirm for you. So yeah, so this is Ephesians 2, the idea of man. It says, at one point, every one of us were children of wrath. We deserve the wrath of God for our sins. But then here on the other arm, it says, but God.

Speaker 1:
[55:29] Another Hebrew tattoo?

Speaker 2:
[55:30] No, this is Greek. This is Greek. So this is Ephesians 2.

Speaker 1:
[55:33] You know your Chad G. Paul C when one is in Greek and the other one is in Hebrew.

Speaker 2:
[55:36] Go ahead. So this one right here is the idea of man. This is who I once was, that before Christ, I was a child of wrath. But then I just love this simple phrase over here. But God, he changed all that by Jesus Christ coming down the cross. So I got this to honestly remind myself of who I once was and who I now am. But then also, frankly, another reason, it's not the biggest reason, but it was a small reason and it's happened. Anytime, anytime that I'm out in public in a sleeveless shirt, no jokes. Or like if I'm at a pool or I'm hanging at the beach without Phelps, I'm just like, hey man, what do those mean? And I'm able to explain it to him and then I'm really able to write the intake into Ephesians 2.

Speaker 1:
[56:11] And I love that.

Speaker 2:
[56:12] And share my story. I got another one here. I've got one on my chest here.

Speaker 1:
[56:16] Chill, chill, chill.

Speaker 2:
[56:17] I'll try not to share too much. I'll just show it to you.

Speaker 1:
[56:19] We want to keep this BG Paul.

Speaker 2:
[56:21] You can blur that out if you want to use that. Kind of a thing. That's just Mount Baker up in Washington.

Speaker 1:
[56:26] I don't want to get censored on YouTube or, you know.

Speaker 2:
[56:28] I know, right? Oh, man, all the things. I'm turning red or by the minute here. Anyways, okay.

Speaker 1:
[56:32] I'll be giving you a hard time.

Speaker 2:
[56:33] So just know, I am going to be a little biased, but you know, I do feel like I'm running this. Does the Bible allow tattoos? Yes.

Speaker 1:
[56:40] Okay, great.

Speaker 2:
[56:41] Of course.

Speaker 1:
[56:41] Thank you, man. Let's not talk about weed now.

Speaker 2:
[56:43] No versus against it. Yeah, well, would you say no? No, would other people say no?

Speaker 1:
[56:48] So let me ask you this. Some people would say, well, Paul Leviticus 19, verse 28, explicitly, literally says this, I'm going to read it. Verse 28, do not cut your bodies for the dead and do not mark your skin with tattoos. I am the Lord. Okay. Explain that verse. Explain it away, please.

Speaker 2:
[57:07] Man, I guess I just, I didn't read that before I got these. I must have.

Speaker 1:
[57:11] You never heard that one.

Speaker 2:
[57:12] That's why you removed your lower back tattoo. Anyways, again, for people who don't, he does not actually.

Speaker 1:
[57:18] We're giving each other a hard time, but this is a joke.

Speaker 2:
[57:20] This is a joke. He does not have a lower back tattoo and never has.

Speaker 1:
[57:23] And I thought you would know if I did, so go ahead.

Speaker 2:
[57:25] So actually, this is a good example of that first question when I said, hey, what is the Bible saying? Really like, does the Bible allow this? There are places where maybe there's like one verse or two verses or maybe it's in a book like Leviticus, where you want to make sure you're reading like any verse, the verse in context and making sure you understand the historical context and the wider context of the passage. Okay, so on the one hand, this is very clear. Don't get a tattoo. Let's talk about context. In this section of Leviticus, what God is telling the Israelites are different rules for them to follow or things to do and not to do so that they would not look like the surrounding nations around them. That's a huge thing. Hey, I'm sending you in here. You need to make sure you're holy, set apart and different from the nations around you. This ties in specifically whenever he talks about not cutting yourselves for the dead, because that's the other thing. Sometimes people will say, don't get a tattoo. It's directly connected to the idea of don't cut yourselves for the dead. So in Canaanite religion, it was very common for people to cut themselves either as a way to express mourning. There's literally a story about the god El who cuts himself in order to express mourning over the dead. And it is a way basically to invoke the god. So you actually see, I believe it's the prophets of Baal showdown with Elijah. What do they start doing? They start cutting themselves in order to get the gods to respond. Another thing that tattoos or cutting would have marked out is you're belonging to a specific deity. Well, the Jews did not need this because they had other external means such as circumcision, types of clothing and other purity laws that they followed that marked them out. This is not a blanking injunction against any and all tattoos. It's tied to a specific thing at that time. This leads to the next thing which is we've talked about this on another podcast. In the law, the Old Testament law, there are really in a sense three branches or different types of law. You have the moral law, things like do not kill, do not lie, things that by the way, Christians are still bound to obey. Then you had the purity slash ceremonial laws and the civil laws given specifically to the nation of Israel. As Christians, what we believe is that when Jesus fulfilled his mission, he also fulfilled the law. Now, when it comes to the moral law, we're still obligated to abode those. You don't get a free pass on killing people, sorry. But when it comes to the ceremony or civil laws, we are no longer bound to obey those. If you say we are, so when people quote this verse to me, I say, okay, go, I believe, just one verse before this where it talks about not mooring off the sides of your hair or your beard.

Speaker 1:
[59:53] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[59:53] So do you obey that?

Speaker 1:
[59:54] Sure.

Speaker 2:
[59:55] And so we get kind of picky and choosy. But I will say when you read Leviticus in this same chapter is where it says, love your brother, your neighbor as yourself. So as you're going to Leviticus, there are rules, sometimes side by side, that are moral for all time. But there's others that were given for this time. So in this case, I'd say, hey, I believe this was given for this time and not for all time. Now, there's another argument. I'm just going to go and say, I don't usually use this argument. Usually my explanation for that verse is enough, at least for the people I'm talking to. Others would argue, and this is where I can't wait to see you get triggered, that hey, the other reason why it's okay is because Jesus himself in the Bible has a tattoo. In the Book of Revelation, he has a tattoo on his thigh. If it's good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for me too. Now, what do you say to that?

Speaker 1:
[60:38] Well, it's funny that you say that. Let me nerd out a little bit here. This is a little bit of a hot take with this conversation with Christian-sent tattoos. So one, first of all, let me just say this. Man, praise God for the freedom that we have in Christ. And honestly, it's my favorite to hear stories of people using their tattoos to share the gospel. I think that's great. I think what you said about Leviticus makes a lot of sense. Now, for clarity, I personally don't think Revelation 1916 means Jesus literally had a tattoo. Oh, Carlos. Now, some people, when they hear me say this, they'll be like, oh, that's the most obvious thing. While other people will be like, what are you talking about? It's right there. So let me just read the verse, Revelation 19, verse 16. This is what it says, on his robe, talking about Jesus, at his thigh was written this title, King of all kings and Lord of all lords. So a couple of things. Number one, the word tattoo is just not in the text. So let's just start there. It says it's written on his robe. That's right. Sure. Number two, the genre of, I sound so terrible saying that. That's terrible. Number two, the genre of Revelation is apocalyptic literature.

Speaker 2:
[61:40] Yes, it is.

Speaker 1:
[61:41] So it uses apocalyptic imagery. And so it says that his eyes had fire and like there's a sword coming out of his mouth. Like that's, I don't think it means symbolic imagery. I don't think it means that there's a literal sword coming out of Jesus' mouth.

Speaker 2:
[61:52] Unless it's a thousand years and then it has to be literal if you're premillennial, right?

Speaker 1:
[61:56] Okay, we're not going to go there.

Speaker 2:
[61:57] I'm just teasing. That was from the previous episode. You got some shots on me. I had to fire one back at you from last week.

Speaker 1:
[62:02] Number three, it says the tattoo was on his robe, at his thigh. So, the reason why most people believe the inscription is on his robe, not on his skin, is because in Greco-Roman and ancient Near Eastern cultures, it was actually a thing for kings and generals to have a title embroidered or inscriptions on their garments at the thigh level, and it represented power and royal authority. So, that's kind of the point of the text. And then last one, some, not all, but some religious about Jewish people would actually interpret Leviticus 19-28 as a clear binding Torah prohibition against voluntarily getting a tattoo that is permanent. So, they would be skeptical of an interpretation where Jesus is all of a sudden like, there's a tattoo right there. So, that's that. I will say this, some might disagree. That's okay. We can disagree on...

Speaker 2:
[62:52] If I was in the rabbinic Jewish tradition, I guess I would have to bond myself to that.

Speaker 1:
[62:56] So, the bottom line is, because this is important, because somebody's going to get upset about this in the comments, and I'm going to get all fired up. The bottom line is, here's what I would say, tattoo or no tattoo, here's the point of this. Don't miss it. Jesus is coming back in glory to reign as King of Kings and Lord of Lords. That's the point.

Speaker 2:
[63:11] Amen.

Speaker 1:
[63:11] That's the point.

Speaker 2:
[63:12] Well, and I will say the lesson there as we're having this conversation is like, cause I don't go there when people ask me that question.

Speaker 1:
[63:18] I know.

Speaker 2:
[63:18] I literally just go to the Leviticus one and just try to explain the context. My point though is sometimes we're having these conversations, we'll pull out these little details like that and make these... It's interesting. They're fun, but at the same time, it's like, I don't even need that to make the point. Sometimes these conversations, we'll get these little pieces of scripture and really stretch them to breaking points in ways maybe they weren't intended to. But to go back to the question of tattoos. So, hey, does the Bible out? Personally, I would say yes in our day would be. Now, some people would disagree. That's where I would say, this becomes then an area of conscience. If you remember that kind of flowchart, is the Bible out? I would say yes. If you say no to me, I would say, I disagree with you. That's why this would be more of an area of conscience. If you don't feel like you can get one and honor God, then don't. And other people don't do it for practical reasons. They're like, well, my skin will sag. If they may be in a profession where if they had any visible tattoo, that would kind of be a thing. Okay, you got to think about that.

Speaker 1:
[64:04] So let me tell you why I don't. And then we can line in and we need to talk about weed after this. So you told me why you do, you know?

Speaker 2:
[64:13] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[64:13] You got it. I would say for me, here's why I don't. So for me, it's really a matter of like a conscious calling and culture. And I'll bring in the culture card here in a second. So and I didn't alliterate on purpose, by the way. That was just an accident. So obviously I said this before. I was born and raised in El Salvador today. El Salvador is actually one of the has one of the lowest homicide rates in Latin America. But some years ago, actually not long ago, El Salvador has actually been known as the murder capital of the world because of its homicide rates are so high, primarily caused by gangs. And so I grew up in the 90s in El Salvador in the 1900s. Having tattoos have often been associated with being a part of a gang. So like MS-13 and all these other gangs. Historically, there's been a strong stigma to it. And so when I left El Salvador as a teenager, came to the US, I started a ministry on YouTube, started sharing my faith through videos on YouTube. My platform started growing, especially with people from Latin America. And so now I'm in my early 20s and now all my friends in ministry are kind of getting tattoos. And I think, man, they look so cool, right? Like you're a cool tattoo preacher. And I'm like, well, maybe I can get a tattoo. And then I'm kind of processing through this. And I kind of got hit with two things that I still hold today for me. Number one, 1st Timothy 412, this is what it says. Don't let anyone look down on you because you're young, but set an example for the believers in speech and conduct, in love and faith and impurity. By the way, if you're a Christian and you're young, you have a holy obligation to set an example to all believers. This is true. So when our ministry started growing in the early 20s, in my early 20s, I had the opportunity to, but God opened the doors for me to travel and preach and minister to lots of young people, especially in Latin America. And what I learned is that I did not want to be a stumbling block for them and somehow set an example that would be a net negative for them in their culture and in their context. And so for me, I was like, I think I'm good. That's the first one. Second reason is number two, First Corinthians 922. You said it, Paul. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some. I do this for the sake of the gospel that I may share in its blessing. My life's calling and mission is to be a preacher and an evangelist around the world or wherever God calls me. And from an early point in my life, in my early 20s, I knew that if I had tattoos on my body, I knew that it would become an obstacle for me to be able to enter and preach in different countries, cities, churches or cultures, especially in Latin America. So again, for me, my purpose was more important than my preference. And for my mission, it would be, it would not be a sin to get a tattoo, but it would be a net negative. And so again, I learned that then and that's okay. I am free to be like, open-handed. God, you can do whatever you want. Yeah, would have been cool. Sure. But you know what? Help me be efficient in doing what God has called me to do.

Speaker 2:
[67:10] And for context, for people who don't know this, a lot of people don't know this about you, man. It's like you're like Mr. Worldwide. You're like, you and Pitbull.

Speaker 1:
[67:17] No, I'm not Pitbull. That's right. I'm not Mr. 503.

Speaker 2:
[67:20] You're known on most book on it specifically. You've got an insane following in Latin America. Like it's crazy. My wife was down, I believe in Guatemala, and she heard that we were from Lakepointe and she was like, oh, do you know Carlos? That was their first question, man. That was their first question. But with that, it's like when you're making video content, for you, you have to be very cognizant of the fact that it's not just people here in America, but actually a lot of times in places, other places where this is still a cultural stigma, and you don't want it in any way so discord or present a stomach block. It's just a good example of again, the culture in this has changed in America in the last 20 years, but I still think there's a good principle here, which is like, man, I thought about, for example, getting a third tattoo here in my forearm. The thing that I hesitate on is that, man, sometimes I do meet with people that are more conservative backgrounds, and I don't want to present that at all. And so I'm like, hey, if I do that, I would have to wear a long-sleeve shirt when I'm with them. But I think the teachable moment here is a few things. Number one is just remembering, just because you can doesn't mean you automatically should stop. Slow down, ask these questions, because again, we, while we're free, we have freedom of Christ, we're not free to do whatever we want. We have to ask, how does this affect others? I remember, make this short, but I remember a few years ago, I was a camp director. And just 20 years ago, when tattoos were still a bit more of a taboo, especially in the South. And we had a rule that if our staff had a tattoo, they had to cover it. And they got really mad at this. And I had to talk to them. I'm like, okay. So like, I just said, hey, so if you went to a Muslim country to share the gospel, what would you wear? And the guys were like, oh, I'd wear like jeans and like, you know, a nice polo shirt or khakis, nice polo shirt. The girl, the females were like, oh, I'd wear a long dress. I'm like, well, why? And I'm like, well, because I wouldn't want to offend them. I wouldn't want to present any kind of a sum of bucks to the gospel. I'm like, oh, so you would bend over backwards for people around the world, but you want for your other brothers and sisters in Christ right here.

Speaker 1:
[69:10] There you go.

Speaker 2:
[69:11] And it's that same kind of a spirit we have to think about wherever we are. The last thing I'd say, hey, cause again, I kind of walk them through that as okay, how does it affect others? But then remember when you talked about how does this affect your spiritual life? Like, hey, this doesn't, I'm like, well, here, here's what I would say. If you're getting a tattoo to demonstrate your faith, the question I would ask you is just the life you're living tell the same story as the tattoo that you get.

Speaker 1:
[69:31] There you go.

Speaker 2:
[69:32] That is this because what you would want to watch out for is that it becomes common for some people to get a lot of tattoos that are more like faith based, which by the way, I love, I obviously have them. What I'm thinking about getting would be one as well. It's just, it can become a kind of more of almost like what the Pharisees were doing, which is for outward show. It's what Matthew 23 talks about.

Speaker 1:
[69:50] You're going to get a Live Free tattoo on the form right here?

Speaker 2:
[69:52] I should actually do that. I'll figure out the Greek version of that.

Speaker 1:
[69:55] Live Free and then like Pastor Josh's face.

Speaker 2:
[69:57] Well, no, Hulk Hogan. That's sorry. There's an inside joke there. Inside joke. But I just say that to say, totally cool, but just make sure the life you're living tells the same story as your tattoo. All right. You want to talk about, can you smoke weed?

Speaker 1:
[70:10] We're landing the plane with weed. By that, I mean with a conversation of weed, not that we are landing any planes with actual weed.

Speaker 2:
[70:16] I don't have a visual for this. I don't have anything.

Speaker 1:
[70:18] You did not bring it? I did not.

Speaker 2:
[70:20] I did not. Well, I don't have it, so I couldn't bring it. Like you just tried to entrap me. We are in a state where it is legal. And it's like you tried to entrap me, Carlos.

Speaker 1:
[70:27] We're not in a state where it's legal, right? Is it legal?

Speaker 2:
[70:29] We are in a state where it's illegal.

Speaker 1:
[70:30] Oh, that's right. That's right. That's right.

Speaker 2:
[70:32] It's not making people from doing it. But okay.

Speaker 1:
[70:34] So, Trinity, we got a clip here from somebody asking the question. This is George Yankel. I do not know him personally, but shout out George. He's a Christian influencer slash podcaster. Let's play the clip.

Speaker 3:
[70:47] When I'm around these things, I feel like my skin is about to explode into fire. So I'm like, okay, I don't like drinking out with people. It's just they're not at their best quality state of mind, and I don't want to be a part of that.

Speaker 1:
[70:57] We got alcohol.

Speaker 3:
[70:58] When I smoke weed, though, I'm giggly. I am stupid, but I do have a firm grasp of what's kind of going on here. At night, I like to partake in one or two joints. Now, for you good men, I don't know if you know what that is, but it's ripping a bong is grabbing a plant from God's earth, right? So is it wrong for me to unwind afterwards and rip a bad boy? You know what I mean? Like get as high as my God could possibly take me. I'm going to ask you in a blasphemous way because I want to relate to other pagans like me.

Speaker 2:
[71:31] This is such a good thing to ask and to know.

Speaker 3:
[71:34] Well, I'm going to ask you the way that I feel. Listen, God created it. I just light it on fire and it acts me up a little bit. I just want to know, is it bad and am I considered a drunken fool if I do this?

Speaker 1:
[71:47] That's a question.

Speaker 2:
[71:48] I can't wait for you to answer it, Carlos.

Speaker 1:
[71:50] I'm happy to, but I want to let you go first because I got some thoughts. Yeah. So let me ask this way. No, actually, just go ahead.

Speaker 2:
[72:00] Before we get into using that framework that we already established and using that to walk through some things together, let me highlight something is that some people today would say like, oh, this is like for a younger generation, the way alcohol was for older generations. Oh, at one time, older generations felt that alcohol was just evil and sinful. But hey, we actually know you have freedom to do it kind of a thing. And now, this is the same thing. But I would actually say they're related in the sense of, hey, a big thing about smoking weed that is related to drinking alcohol is, it's really about, hey, Scripture tells us to be sober minded in first peer. To your point, and I'll even elaborate a little bit, you mentioned in Galatians about how it says drunkenness. Now, what's interesting, it contrasts that then right after that comes the fruit of the spirit, which is the last one is self-control. So part of why drunkenness is an offense to God and is a harmful to ourselves is because we lose the self-control that God wants us to have. And he wants us, it talks about in 1 Peter, to be sober minded and to be alert. You can't do that when you're drunk and therefore you also can't do that when you're high. And so I wanted to connect that because the fear I have for some people is they're like, well, hey, if alcohol is okay, then man, yeah, we can just smoke a joint. They're the same thing. It's pretty much the same thing. It's like, ah, we've got to be more nuanced and careful. So like a few things, you're like, in terms of the Bible out, first I would just say, hey, it's not legal in a lot of places. And so if you're in a state where it's not legal, then if you're a Christian, no, you're not allowed to do it. But I was in a state 20 months ago now in Washington state, where it was, dude, like you would drive down and like, bro, if you drove by a dispensary, anyplace that was sound, it was terrible. You could just smell it. It didn't matter if you were not venting in outside air, like it was skunk, full on, when you passed it, it was terrible. See, I was legal there. And so Christians actually would come up and say to us, hey, can I do this? It's legal here. And so a few things. Okay, there's no explicit Bible verse about doing it or not doing it. It's just, it's not there. But remember, this is where we also have to ask, not only are there explicit instructions, are there any implicit principles that can be applied here? Okay, I already mentioned one about the illegality, but if you were in a place even where it was legal, and again, 1 Peter 5.8 says to be sober minded, you have to exercise self-control. So when someone asked me this, like when someone would ask me this in Washington state, or even if they asked me it here and like, well, just in theory, if it ever became legal here, and I'm like, be real with me, this is not just in theory for you. If you're asking this, but let's say it was in theory. I usually ask them some things, like, hey, so can you consume weed without getting high? And I usually, when I ask this, I just play dumb. I'm like, hey, so can you consume weed without getting high?

Speaker 1:
[74:40] Generally speaking, the answer is no.

Speaker 2:
[74:41] Yeah, now, they may say, okay, well, but if I take a gummy with a specific amount of THC, then yeah, I can't, I won't actually fully get high. It'll be just kind of like a light buzz, almost like getting just a slight tipsy from wine. I'm like, okay, so do you do that? And that's usually almost every time I ask this, I'm like, so what are we talking? So usually what they're wanting to do is they want to do whatever they want to do. They already have made up their minds they want to do this, and they're just looking for a rationale to do that and not feel guilty. So but even theoretically, if they could like even if theoretically they're only to the gummy, I'd say, hey, are you going to become dependent upon that? Because they will, it helps me sleep. I'm like, okay. Well, in the same way that there's pills that could help you fall asleep sleeping pills, but you can become too dependent. That's dangerous. Same thing here. You look like you've been wanting to chime in.

Speaker 1:
[75:26] Now, I mean, I mean, just to echo what you're saying, I think, you know, again, when somebody asks you that question, can you smoke weed? They're almost always talking about THC and THC is the chemical found in marijuana, and it's literally what makes you feel high. Yeah, it's the THC's purpose is intoxication.

Speaker 2:
[75:43] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[75:44] And so you said it, Paul. I mean, that would conflict with the biblical principle of sobriety and sober mindedness and self control. And so you're moving away from that responsibility as a Christian. And so, yeah, I mean, I would agree. Now, tell me if you agree with this. I mean, there are some medical uses of marijuana. Oh, yeah, some CBD products that might be acceptable if controlled and under doctor supervision and community. This is what I would say would be case by case. But even then, when prescribed medically, the goal is to get symptom relief, not to get you high. Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[76:24] Oh, a hundred percent yes. There's to me no difference in this than if we're talking about people taking Vicodin or morphine or anything else.

Speaker 1:
[76:33] To me, that's also different than smoking weed. That's not really the question that was asked.

Speaker 2:
[76:37] When we get into this discussion, whenever I get some of the answers I just gave, they're like, well, what about medical? I'm like, well, do you have a medical issue? At the end of the day, when people ask this 99 times out of 100, they want to do whatever they want to do. And they're asking for me to rubber stamp it with the Bible or with God. And I'm just like, you got to ask some questions.

Speaker 1:
[76:56] And from a biblical perspective, for that guy, generally speaking, again, in general, the answer is like, hey, that's not wise.

Speaker 2:
[77:03] Yeah, it's not wise. And so they want to bring this up. I'm like, yeah, if someone has a medical condition and it was prescribed, then yeah. And I would say, hey, in the same way that there are dangers around someone getting addicted to painkillers, there could be a danger of this too. And that's why you need medical supervision. But one thing when I get in this conversation with people, usually that I'm like, I'm like, hey, so let's say even theoretically, like even theoretically, if it was possible for you to do this and not to get high, I usually am like, let me just ask you this scenario. I was like, let's put it this way. It's like we just had Easter, incredible. Saw like over 2,700 people indicated decision. We went out this week and celebrated as a staff and just went to Topgolf and had a good time and just like, and laughed. And it was just, it was great. It was great. And you and I went out there, by the way, good, you can hit a ball, man. You're being, you can hit a ball.

Speaker 1:
[77:52] Nice guy.

Speaker 2:
[77:52] You did mock me at one time. And then I came back and beat you in that one game.

Speaker 1:
[77:56] Yes, yeah, I guess you were being a nice guy. I know you're being a nice guy.

Speaker 2:
[77:59] I am not being a nice guy. My conscience is convicting me right now. There you go, there you go. Anyways, I'm not thinking of how this affects other believers. Okay, anyways. So I would often ask people this, okay, so let's say theoretically, when Easter Sunday night, we're just on cloud nine of what God did, and we wanted to get together and tell stories. And let's say a few of us guys got together on staff, pastors on staff, and we drank a glass of wine, we paid for ourselves, we're not using the church car, paid for ourselves, drank a glass of wine, and just shared stories of what we've seen God do. And I would ask the person, hey, would that rub you wrong at all? And almost all the time, the person's like, no, not at all. I'm like, okay, so what if we all brought our own joint and smoked it? And every time I've asked something, anywhere close to this, the person always like, and I'm like, okay, so it sounds like you would not feel good with us doing it. So why isn't your conscience convicting you of doing it? And that's usually why I say, hey, I'm like, if you were being honest with yourself, you probably is, you're just probably in a wheeze your way out of it. So in terms of the others, I say like, man, how does this affect other people? It's just the reality is y'all, there's more stigma around it. And people are like, there shouldn't be. Well, guess what? There is. And so I just tell people like, the way to think of it is like this, if we're talking about getting a tattoo of, am I allowed to do it or not? That is like a three lane highway. There's a few barriers you have to watch out for, but you got a lot of freedom. Alcohol is more like a two lane road where, hey, you're starting to get a little bit more danger if you will, if you kind of waver off kind of a thing. It's more narrow, but still, there's some freedom. When we're talking about, can you smoke weed or consume any kind of a product like that, you're now walking on a tightrope. My whole thing is, why are you walking on a tightrope? To get this, I'm like, is there a better, safer, and more acceptable way to get what you're looking for without walking on a tightrope that is very dangerous and can lead you to a bad place? If so, why wouldn't you be wise and take that other option? Those are a few thoughts from my end man.

Speaker 1:
[79:48] Let me land this point here this way. I think one of the biggest mistakes, well meaning, but sometimes honestly immature Christians will make is that we'll keep asking things like, is it okay for a Christian to do this? What about this? And how much of that? And what they don't realize is that what they're asking is, how close can I get to sin without crossing the line? Or basically, what can I get away with as a Christian? As if the Christian life was about just avoiding lines to cross so you don't get punished by God or you feel guilty later. And so, all of these are great questions. Obviously, again, we should keep asking, what does the Bible say on everything? The Bible is not just for this one thing that you do on a weekend. It literally, your relationship with Jesus should affect every single aspect of your life. So we should be asking these questions. And by the way, church is the best place to ask these questions. But I would challenge some of us to stop asking, where is the line? And start asking, where is Jesus? And so instead of asking, man, how close can I get to sin before crossing that line? I want to be asking, what do I have to do to get as close to Jesus as I can possibly can? And when you do that, everything changes. When you find that you're asking that question instead and say, man, how can I get close to Jesus, mature more like Jesus, to become more like Jesus and run in the opposite direction of sin? You will find more joy, more freedom, more blessing, more purpose and everything else falls in place. Pastor Paul, would you pray for us?

Speaker 2:
[81:14] I would love to. God, we thank you for the fact that there is absolutely nothing we can do or not do that would make you love us any more or less. That your love for us is based on who you are and it's based on what you've done. Thank you for the fact that we don't have to save ourselves, but you by your grace, Jesus came down and saved us by living a perfect life we couldn't live and then dying the death that we deserve to die and then rising from the grave victoriously. But God, now on the other side of that, now that we've received salvation, we want to live every part of our life, not just Sunday, but every single minute of every day for your glory and in a way that honors you and pleases you. God, I pray that you would give us grace to do that. Holy Spirit, would you help your spiritual fruits grow in us? But God, also we encounter these situations because there's what your word has said, but then there's also cultural expectations or the way culture tries to twist it. Would you just give every single person listening to this, would you give all of us wisdom to be able to discern and to know what you've called us to do, but then also where you've given us freedom? God, as we do that, would you give us sensitive, other people-centered hearts, Lord, where even if we have been given freedom to do it, you would help us to see how is this impacting others, how is this impacting our spiritual lives, and let us to know when we need to wisely say no to places where it's okay, even if we said yes, because it's just not going to be helpful to us or others. So would you give us that wisdom? Lord, we commit this week to you. We love you. It's in your name we pray. Amen.

Speaker 1:
[82:43] Amen. Amen. Live free, brother.

Speaker 2:
[82:44] Live free.

Speaker 1:
[82:46] Well, hey, Lakepointe family. Thanks for tuning in today. Hey, this upcoming Thursday, April 23rd at midnight Central Time, we're going to be dropping a special episode with our friend, Frank Turek, one of America's leading Christian apologists of our time. You'll be sharing about his close relationship with Charlie Kirk. We're also going to be talking about Catholicism and the differences between Catholic versus Protestant beliefs and some of the Pope's latest remarks on Islam and so much more. Trust me, you don't want to miss it. We will see you then.