transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:00] You know that thing where you get an amazing pair of shoes at a really great price and want to tell everyone about it? Yeah, so do we. Here at Designer Shoe Warehouse, we'll give you something to brag about, like the latest styles from brands you love, or the trends everyone's obsessing over, or shoes that make you feel like, well, you. So go ahead, show off a little. Find shoes that get you, at prices that get your budget. Head to your DSW store or dsw.com today. DSW. Let us surprise you.

Speaker 2:
[00:30] Right. We're getting into an ad and it is Shopify. I'm going to let Garrett take it away because he is probably Shopify's number one fan.

Speaker 3:
[00:40] I have been using Shopify before I was born. No, honestly, I've been using Shopify for seven years now, I want to say. I've been using it for a long time. I feel like I'd consider myself a Shopify expert at this point. But we love Shopify. We still use Shopify. The amount of tools and features they have are amazing. For me, it's that it's super easy to use if you want to sell anything online at all. Shopify is going to be the place to do this. You really need to check out Shopify. Shopify is your commerce expert with world-class expertise and everything from managing inventory to international shipping to processing returns and beyond. See less carts go abandon and more sales go with Shopify and their shop pay button. Sign up for your $1 per month trial today at shopify.com/husband. Go to shopify.com/husband. That's shopify.com/husband.

Speaker 2:
[01:37] You're listening to an OH NO MEDIA podcast. Hey everybody, welcome back to the podcast. This is Murder With My Husband. I'm Payton Moreland.

Speaker 3:
[01:44] And I'm Garrett Moreland.

Speaker 2:
[01:45] And he's the husband.

Speaker 3:
[01:46] And I'm the husband. Happy Monday. Happy Monday. Thank you for being here. Thank you for listening. Thank you for watching. Thank you for following, liking, commenting, hating. I don't even care if you hate. Do it. Dare you. Anyways, that's all we got going on. Hope everyone's having, we're going to have a great week. And yeah, that's our intro. A reminder real quick for those who don't know, we do have bonus content. We have bonus episodes and ad free content over on Apple, Spotify and Patreon. And that's that. Go check that out if you want that.

Speaker 2:
[02:23] Do you think the listeners know that I just glaze them all the time? Is that the thing I would say or what?

Speaker 3:
[02:30] What do you mean? Are you glazing them?

Speaker 2:
[02:32] Like I feel like sometimes they're probably like, if I were to be like, oh, I was thinking about this because I was thinking about this this week. I was thinking about how I feel like we have like top 1% listeners.

Speaker 3:
[02:44] Okay.

Speaker 2:
[02:45] I feel like our listeners are the exceptional.

Speaker 3:
[02:49] The goats.

Speaker 2:
[02:49] Exceptional. Yeah. The goats. And I only say that because of the feedback that we receive from like ad companies or people who interact with our listeners.

Speaker 3:
[03:01] Yeah. You guys are the goats. I'm not going to lie.

Speaker 2:
[03:03] But do you think they think I'm glazing all the time?

Speaker 3:
[03:07] No.

Speaker 2:
[03:07] Do I say this too much is what I'm saying? Or do you think that at this point they don't believe me?

Speaker 3:
[03:12] They probably just tune it out.

Speaker 2:
[03:14] Yeah. Well, I'm not trying to glaze or anything.

Speaker 3:
[03:17] But I think there's no problem with glazing.

Speaker 2:
[03:19] Like I just like, I feel sometimes with the feedback we receive, I don't know. Sometimes I just feel like our listeners are a little special.

Speaker 3:
[03:28] Yeah. I agree.

Speaker 2:
[03:29] I don't know.

Speaker 3:
[03:30] I agree. I agree. I agree.

Speaker 2:
[03:32] Like obviously they are. We wouldn't be here without them.

Speaker 3:
[03:35] It's true. So you're special too though.

Speaker 2:
[03:38] Well, thank you.

Speaker 3:
[03:38] Welcome.

Speaker 2:
[03:39] That means a lot. But I just want you to know if you're listening to this, that you matter and you matter to me because I wouldn't be here without you. You have 10 seconds.

Speaker 3:
[03:50] Yes.

Speaker 2:
[03:51] You do prep.

Speaker 3:
[03:53] No.

Speaker 2:
[03:53] I was so excited.

Speaker 3:
[03:55] I haven't slept. I don't eat. I've probably lost 10 pounds. Stress in my life, boy. That's what I got going. I'm stressed, working, doing a bunch of stuff, but it's okay. I'm pretty soon here. Hopefully, everything will be chill and we'll look it. It is what it is, you know?

Speaker 2:
[04:09] By the time they listen to this, will we have had the opening?

Speaker 3:
[04:11] Yes, by the time. No, no, no, no, no. This is one more.

Speaker 2:
[04:15] One more, right?

Speaker 3:
[04:16] Gosh, that gave me a hard.

Speaker 2:
[04:17] That kind of gave me, made me sick.

Speaker 3:
[04:19] My stomach.

Speaker 2:
[04:19] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[04:20] My barf all over the place.

Speaker 2:
[04:24] Yeah, that's how I feel about it.

Speaker 3:
[04:25] Anyways, I hope everything's going well. I have nothing else to say. I'm sorry, guys. I have 10 seconds. Any hot takes?

Speaker 2:
[04:34] I was going to say, a lot of things have gone wrong this week for you.

Speaker 3:
[04:38] Dude, just like, oh my gosh.

Speaker 2:
[04:39] Which is like a little, it's a little discouraging because it's like his mixer broke today. So now you can't make bagels, can't practice with employees. How do we even get that fixed? Are they going to have to ship another one? Opening is soon.

Speaker 3:
[04:56] I just, I think I'm going to close shop, you know? I tried. Damn hard. It was tough.

Speaker 2:
[05:03] I know.

Speaker 3:
[05:04] It's fine. It'll be okay. I don't want to talk too much about the bagel shop, but I will talk about any hot takes that I have, but I feel like I can't think of any right now. If I think of a hot take in the middle of the episode, I'll spit it right out. So on that note, let's hop into this week's episode.

Speaker 2:
[05:21] Our sources for this episode are Green Bay Pres gazette.com, cbsnews.com, oxygen.com, wbay.com, Hanson Funerals service.com, fox11online.com, wncy.com, wearegreenbay.com, wtxl.com, mirror.co.uk, thetroublewithjustice.com, wicourts.com and legacy.com. I feel like lately we've kind of covered a lot of cases that have to do with technology, and I know that I'm kind of including my solo show Into the Dark in that because I just kind of feel like this has been a theme lately. We see a lot of cases getting solved with some new form of technology, geofencing and location analytics, genetic genealogy, digital forensics. Because of these tools, Googling one damning search phrase can literally lead to an arrest. We made a joke about this on last week's episode. Bringing your phone with you to commit a crime could literally mean throwing a knife in prison. Throwing out a used soda can could now prove it was your DNA left at a crime scene years ago. But what we often don't highlight is how that same technology can actually save a life, not just solve a crime. Or more specifically, keep someone from being wrongfully accused of a crime they didn't commit. Which is why today's case shows circumstantial evidence might tell one story. But with the tech we have nowadays, concrete evidence has the power to change the narrative entirely. And this is definitely something about technology that we don't often go over in true crime. And that is, again, like, we have all these new ways of solving crime. But because of these advances, we've now also made it easier to not put the wrong person in prison. Yeah. So today I want to introduce you to a 31-year-old mother of three from Green Bay, Wisconsin, named Nicole VanderHeyden, or Nikki, as her friends called her. Now, Nikki was the kind of person who lived for everyone else. She put others before herself constantly. She took a lot of pride in this. Born on March 29th, 1985, Nikki graduated from high school in 2003, and went on to get a degree in science and education. Now, after that, she spent the next six years of her life working as a substitute teacher for the Green Bay Area Public School System. On her off days, Nikki would do anything to get outside for a good hike, or to connect with nature. She loved exercising and taking care of herself, but Nikki's number one priority in her life eventually was her family. She got married, she had two kids with her first husband, but eventually they felt it was best if they parted ways. And Nikki leaned on those closest to her to get through those difficult times, especially when she learned that she would have to share the custody of her son and daughter with her ex. But as someone who always embraced the journey that is life, Nikki soon met and fell in love with someone else. It was January 2015 when Nikki met Doug Detry.

Speaker 3:
[08:57] I know this is going to sound a little ditzy, but it's just weird to think that 2015 granted was 11 years ago now, which is scary.

Speaker 2:
[09:06] It doesn't feel that long.

Speaker 3:
[09:07] It doesn't feel that long. But we just live normal lives while all this insanity happens around us.

Speaker 2:
[09:14] Right. We were just at college during this time.

Speaker 3:
[09:16] People are killing people and just doing insane crap, and I was just going to college being an idiot.

Speaker 2:
[09:25] Isn't that just the...

Speaker 3:
[09:26] It's weird. It's just weird. It's like, yeah, it's weird.

Speaker 2:
[09:28] The irony of life.

Speaker 3:
[09:30] Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2:
[09:31] And an uncomfortable one. So just a few months after they actually started seeing each other, Nicky and Doug got some unexpected news. She was pregnant with her third child that was Doug's child. And even though the two were still basically getting to know each other, they both felt this was something they wanted. Now at the time, Doug was working for his family's company in business development, and it seemed like he was ready to kind of start settling down. And eventually, Nicky moved into their home, and they welcomed their young son in the winter of 2015. But as any parent or even non-parent knows, the first six months with a newborn can be extremely daunting. So by May of 2016, both Nicky and Doug were in desperate need of a date night. So that afternoon, Nicky and Doug spoke to some friends about going to see a last-minute concert. And it was this glam metal band called Steel Panther that was in town, and they figured this is gonna make the perfect date night. So Nicky asked her mom to babysit. Again, she has just a little six-month-old at home with her other kids. And since they planned to stay out later, her friend Dallas would then come to relieve her mother later in the evening. Now, around 8 p.m. that night, Nicky and Doug met their friend Greg Mathieu and some others at a bar called The Watering Hole in Green Bay. Okay. Now, Doug said Nicky was excited this night about letting loose. According to him, she had had two drinks before he had even finished his first. Nicky deserved to blow off some steam after not having gone out for the last six months with the brand new baby, so Doug wasn't holding her back. But around 11 p.m. as the concert began to wrap up, things started to get a little tense with the couple. Doug and Greg had actually run into some old friends from high school at The Watering Hole. But the rest of the friends they had gone to the show with, including Nicky, were now trying to leave. So they wanted to go to another bar called the Sardine Can that was nearby. But Doug and Greg, who are now catching up with their old friends, are like, we don't want to go to Sardine Can, we want to stay at Watering Hole with our friends. So they told Nicky, you go with the rest of the group on this date night to the other bar, and we will meet you there shortly. Now, Nicky obviously is not exactly happy to hear about this because the group they had even come here with was mostly Doug's friends, not even her own. Some of the people he was now catching up with were attractive young women from his past. Still, she didn't want to wait around for him to finish catching up, finish his conversation, so she left with the original friends, figuring Doug and Greg would be along in a matter of minutes. Now, this ends up not being the case this night. Instead, Doug continued to hang around the Watering Hole for a while longer. And at first, Nikki seems fine at the new bar. She's seen on security footage looking happy, dancing, having a good time. But when Doug still hasn't shown up, 15 minutes later, Nikki does start to get pissed. She texts Doug wondering where he is. Now, eventually, those texts escalate as Nikki begins to accuse Doug of cheating on her. And she also mentions something about him being abusive towards her. Now, soon, Doug does text back with some cavalier response, like, LOL stop and be good. I'll see you at the sardine can. But when he still doesn't show up to the second place by 1130, she calls Doug and he doesn't answer. So she asks one of the other friends there with, hey, can you try calling Doug? And when they call, he does answer. So this sets Nikki off because her boyfriend has now screened her call on their date night. I mean, they have a newborn baby at home. This is their night out. He's at a completely different place and is now ignoring her. She gets so angry, she runs out of the bar. And one of Doug's friends, a guy named Aaron, chases her out to the street to try and convince her to come back. Again, he's probably just being a good friend. They've had a lot to drink this night. He's like, hey, Nikki, I understand you're mad, but you can't just go out alone and leave. He tells her, hey, the rest of us are actually calling Ubers and we're going to head home. Why don't you just catch a ride with us? But by this point, Nikki is in hysterics. And when Doug's friend, Aaron, who's trying to help, tries to approach her, she actually pushes him away, ends up falling on the ground, and kind of just starts kicking and screaming at him. And when he realizes people are looking, he's like, that's it. I'm going to just back away, leave her be. I mean, this isn't even his friend. This is, you know, he knows her through Doug. And as he's leaving, he yells to her one last time, quote, we can get you home faster to your child, your babe in the woods. But she just gets up, storms off in another direction on her cell phone. Now, eventually around 1230 a.m., so an hour and a half after the concert ended, Doug and Greg finally decide to leave the watering hole. Doug at this point has been trying to call Nikki back, texting her, hello, I've tried calling you 10 times, but Nikki at this point isn't responding. And apparently, once he hears that the rest of the friends have actually already left the sardine can and that Nikki had wandered off on her own, refused to go with them, refused to take an Uber home, him and Greg decide to start driving around the area looking for her because she's not answering her phone. Now, around 1236, she actually finally does answer, but according to Doug, she is slurring her words, so badly that he can hardly understand her. And he's like, listen, I don't know where you are. Just go back to the sardine can. We will meet you there in five minutes and then we can go home. But a few minutes later, their calls stop going through because Nikki's phone is either turned off or dead.

Speaker 3:
[16:21] Oh my gosh. Okay.

Speaker 2:
[16:22] One of the last messages she had sent Doug said something about how she had met up with a friend. Though again, she's not being coherent. Doesn't say where. So around 1am, Doug and Greg go into the sardine can, hoping Nikki went inside with said friend, but she's not there. They wait around because remember, he said to meet him there. They wait till about 2.15am and then they're like, okay, maybe she's not coming here. Maybe she just found her way home. Especially if she had met up with someone she knew, she probably just got a ride. And that's when Greg drives Doug back to his house to relieve the babysitter. Now, they are back at the house by 2.40am. And Nikki's friend, Dallas, who was there to babysit is passed out on the couch. When Doug wakes her up, they are both shocked to learn that Nikki hasn't made it back yet. So Dallas gets woken up. It's extremely late. Nikki, her friend, is nowhere to be found. They have lost track of her. And now Doug and Greg are just being obnoxiously drunk. The baby's asleep upstairs, and she's like, Oh my gosh, can you guys calm down? She starts asking him some questions. And then Dallas says something to Doug that was half kidding, half serious. She says, quote, Is Nikki in the trunk of your car? Doug literally looks at her and goes, no. But something about Doug's demeanor when she jokes just isn't sitting well with her. Something in her gut in this moment is like, okay, something's not right. Nikki's not here. That was weird. Dallas says good night, closes the door behind her though, not realizing how correct her instincts might have been.

Speaker 3:
[18:09] All right, we are jumping into an ad. It is Rocket Money. Payton and I have been using Rocket Money. Also, fun fact, they were one of our very first sponsors.

Speaker 2:
[18:16] I know.

Speaker 3:
[18:17] Just crazy. Years and years ago, this is when we had our set in the basement of our first house.

Speaker 2:
[18:24] Which also means we've been using Rocket Money that long.

Speaker 3:
[18:27] Yeah, it's crazy. We love Rocket Money. We love them. We use them. I use them all the time for everything. They can organize and put all my finances in just one thing and make it easy to use. Bank accounts, credit cards, debit cards, whatever you have. You can see the subscriptions you're paying for. You can see how much money you're spending on food. It's a Payton idea. You can see everything.

Speaker 2:
[18:49] Honestly, them tracking your subscriptions and helping you cancel your unwanted subscriptions is top tier. It's top tier. It was one of those things that we definitely needed.

Speaker 3:
[19:01] Actually, something that I still get emails for and notifications for is if a purchase over an X amount is made, it'll notify me. Sometimes it's annoying because I do a lot of those purchases, but it's just good to have.

Speaker 2:
[19:15] And you might be thinking, oh, but I can turn those notifications on elsewhere. But Rocket Money puts it all in one place. It literally is so easy. It's easy to digest. It's easy to use. It makes it so simple.

Speaker 3:
[19:26] Check out Rocket Money. If you're wanting some organization in your life for finances, go and check it out. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that finds and cancels your unwanted subscriptions.

Speaker 2:
[19:36] Monitors your spending and helps lower your bills so that you can grow your savings. Let Rocket Money help you reach your financial goals faster. Join at rocketmoney.com/husband.

Speaker 3:
[19:49] That's rocketmoney.com/husband. rocketmoney.com/husband. Check it out.

Speaker 4:
[19:55] You're listening to this podcast, so I know you've got a curious mind. Here's a helpful fact you may not know yet. Drivers who switch and save with Progressive save over $900 on average. Pop over to progressive.com, answer some questions, and you'll get a quick quote with discounts that are easy to come by. In fact, 99% of their auto customers earn at least one discount. Visit progressive.com and see if you can enjoy a little cash back. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates. National average 12-month savings of $946 by new customers surveyed who saved with Progressive between June 2024 and May 2025. Potential savings will vary.

Speaker 2:
[20:33] Now, the following morning, May 21st, Doug wakes up with the baby around 630 a.m. And after feeding his son, he goes back to bed. And then he gets up around 11 a.m. That's when he realizes Nikki still isn't back and her phone still isn't on. So for the next few hours, he just assumes that, okay, she got really mad at me last night. She's probably still mad at me. She's probably sleeping off a hangover at this friend's place that she texted him about. But as the day goes on, he gets more and more worried.

Speaker 3:
[21:06] Also, like, I don't know. I guess I can't judge. It's just that something I feel like we wouldn't do, but maybe other couples do it.

Speaker 2:
[21:14] Yeah. I mean, I think it's even more worrisome that she has a newborn at home. And she's still not home?

Speaker 3:
[21:19] Exactly. That just sounds like I'd be in full panic mode.

Speaker 2:
[21:24] Like, I understand him being like, maybe she's mad at me. Maybe she really did run into a friend. But also, you know that your wife was so out of it that she wouldn't get a ride home with the friends. She was kind of kicking and screaming at them. Like, she clearly was not in her right mind.

Speaker 3:
[21:42] That seems kind of nuts to be like.

Speaker 2:
[21:43] So isn't that a little nerve wracking that you don't know who she's with or where she's at when you know the state she was in?

Speaker 3:
[21:50] Exactly.

Speaker 2:
[21:51] So he begins calling hospitals and local jails, but none of them have Nikki. So finally, at 4:30 p.m. that day, he calls the police to file a missing persons report. But I'm going to rewind just a little earlier that day, around 1:30 p.m. And you're like, wait, why did you probably go 4.30 to, you know, making the missing persons report? But this is important to the story. So earlier that day at 1.30, a farmer is out combing his land just a few miles from Doug and Nikki's house. And he finds what he thinks is a deer laying on his property. Though as he gets closer, he sees it is far, far worse. There is a woman completely naked other than her socks and a pink wristband. So he calls the police who rushed to the scene and they discover that this woman is dead in this farmer's field. And they are having a hard time identifying her. There is no ID. There is no purse or phone. She has a severe injury to the side of her face. She has a shoe mark on her back.

Speaker 3:
[22:57] Oh my gosh.

Speaker 2:
[22:58] And while there's a lot of blood on her body, there is not a ton on the ground, which indicates to them that she was likely killed elsewhere and then dumped here afterwards. When they roll her over, they find there's a significant injury to this woman's neck. So she appears to have been strangled. Her fingernails are actually damaged so badly, which tells them that she definitely fought for her life.

Speaker 3:
[23:26] Strangling someone's crazy.

Speaker 2:
[23:29] Also, wear her clothes and her belongings.

Speaker 3:
[23:31] I know there's any time killing someone in general is insane, but I don't think I could strangle somebody unless I was completely fighting for my life. You know?

Speaker 2:
[23:44] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[23:45] I just find it weird people are like, I'm going to kill this person by strangling them.

Speaker 2:
[23:49] There's definitely something psychological.

Speaker 3:
[23:52] I guess, but I guess depends. Anyways, keep going. I mean, you could like weird naked choke somebody. But like when I imagine strangling, like I imagine they're strangling them like this, like on top of them.

Speaker 2:
[24:03] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[24:04] You know?

Speaker 2:
[24:06] What was I? You just rear naked choking somebody?

Speaker 3:
[24:10] No, I was just saying.

Speaker 2:
[24:11] What is that?

Speaker 3:
[24:12] What do you mean?

Speaker 2:
[24:13] Rear naked choking? That's a name for it?

Speaker 3:
[24:15] Oh, yeah. Just choking somebody. You know me.

Speaker 2:
[24:20] You're like an MMA fighter.

Speaker 3:
[24:21] Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[24:24] Okay. So I agree with you though. I do think like strangling is so intimate in a way. So again, this is all happening. They like the farmer found her at 130, calls the cops. They are now, you know, blocking off the scene, getting investigators, crime scene investigators there. And as this is happening, a call is made to the local police at 4:30 PM. Back up to now where I took you before this. It is the report about a missing woman named Nicole VanderHeyden, who perfectly fits the description of the body they had just found. Remember, this body is only a couple of miles away from her home. So it's very easy for police to be like, we just got a missing person to call and we just found a body. Yeah. So of course, the detective's first stop is to dug in Nicky's house to find out what even happened to her. Like how is she here? What happened the night before? Not as when they learn she only lives three or so miles from where she was found dead. But when police get to Doug's house and sit him down, they actually don't tell him right away that they found Nicky's body. They want to just see how the interview plays out as her being a missing person's report. So he explains to them, he couldn't find Nicky, they lost her that night. We hung out around the sardine can, we waited till about 2.15 for her to show up. We drove around for another 20 minutes or so trying to find her, then we just came back here, said I was asleep by 3 a.m., woke up to feed the baby at 6, went back to bed until 11. One of the first things police notice about Doug is he does seem visibly distraught. He doesn't have any signs of injury on his face, his bare arms or exposed legs that they can see. It doesn't look like someone who's been in a fight, and they know that Nicky fought whoever did this to her. Plus, he does fully cooperate with the investigation. He even allows police to confiscate his cell phone for forensic analysis. And during that interview, they come across the text that him and Nicky had exchanged the night before.

Speaker 3:
[26:37] I feel like I used to ask all the time where the cameras were, and look, I've kind of gone away from that. And I also feel like, have you ever seen that movie with Shiloh LaBeouf, Eagle Eye? I haven't seen it in so long.

Speaker 2:
[26:52] It's Shia LaBeouf.

Speaker 3:
[26:53] Oh, it's Shia. Sorry. Gosh, Shia LaBeouf. Called Eagle Eye, and I haven't seen it in so long. But if I remember right, there's basically like a camera, and like anything can be seen at anytime. Like nothing's ever missed. What?

Speaker 2:
[27:08] I thought like he's in Disturbia.

Speaker 3:
[27:13] You thought it was going to be like a scare movie?

Speaker 2:
[27:14] Well, that's like a camera in that one too. The whole movie is based on a camera.

Speaker 3:
[27:17] No, no, no. But like it's, like are you surprised there's not like a camera on the sky that just constantly sees us and is always keeping an eye on us?

Speaker 2:
[27:24] Is this your hot take?

Speaker 3:
[27:26] Oh, it wouldn't bother me. I'm not doing anything wrong. I mean, it might be a little awkward like when we're doing dirty stuff.

Speaker 2:
[27:32] But other than that, like outside?

Speaker 3:
[27:34] No, I mean, I guess I can't see you inside. So yeah, it doesn't bother me.

Speaker 2:
[27:37] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[27:38] Like it really wouldn't bother me. Anyway, that's my hot take. Watch me 24 7 doesn't bother me.

Speaker 2:
[27:44] I mean, there's so many cameras outside. You kind of are being watched.

Speaker 3:
[27:47] I might be saying some crazy stuff, but whatever. Anyways, we'll keep going.

Speaker 2:
[27:52] Like if you live in a city, yeah, they can track you block to block.

Speaker 3:
[27:56] For sure.

Speaker 2:
[27:58] So they're going through these text messages, and this is also Shia's in Holes.

Speaker 3:
[28:04] Yep, thank you.

Speaker 2:
[28:04] And I do like that movie a lot.

Speaker 3:
[28:06] He's in Transformers, he's in a bunch of movies.

Speaker 2:
[28:07] Oh, Transformers. I haven't seen that, but I did know he was in that too. I just don't know what Eagle Eye is. I don't, I've never heard of that. So they're going through the text messages, and this is when they come across the one where Nicky called Doug a quote, abusive a-hole, to which Doug said, oh, she just gets that way sometimes when she's been drinking too much. He's like, she says things she doesn't mean. But obviously, when detectives read this in someone's phone, it's going to set off alarm bells. So they ask him, hey, can you just come down to the station later tonight? And he complies. And it's not until that interview around midnight that they tell him, we actually think Nicky's body was found earlier today at 1.30, which is low key, like, holy crap. Now, at first, it almost seems like he's in denial. He's like, well, it couldn't be her until they're like, well, she had a pink wristband on her. And that is the one that was given to them at the watering hole for the concert. So he completely loses it. It's like reality sinks in in this moment. It confirms to him that this was Nicky. But tears are not. The police aren't convinced that Doug is free and clear. They think it's very possible he did have something to do with this. And after three to four more hours of questioning, that becomes very clear to Doug too. He suddenly asks for a lawyer. He refuses to give a DNA sample without a warrant. His cooperation comes to a complete stop. Now, meanwhile, just before dawn the next morning, more evidence is found in connection to Nicky's murder. Just off a highway on-ramp, about a mile from where her body was found, an off-duty police officer actually spots something. It's a purse. Then he finds some shoes and some clothes nearby. And when detectives get the purse, they find it contains Nicky's ID and her cell phone. Now, around the same time, a medical examiner is performing Nicky's autopsy, and it confirms two things. One, that she had been strangled with something that resembled an electrical cord of some kind, so it wasn't hands. There was a weapon used. And she had been hit in the head with a blunt force object. But the medical examiner couldn't conclusively state what came first. And in addition, she concludes that Nicky had about 240 separate injuries on her body, including ones to her face. She had a fractured jaw and had injuries suggesting that she had been sexually assaulted. Though obviously, they're having a hard time rolling out the possibility that she might have just been murdered after having consensual sex. So investigators turn to what little evidence they have to determine what happened to Nicky in the final hours of her life.

Speaker 3:
[31:06] I don't know, I'm trying to figure out.

Speaker 2:
[31:08] Well, I'm about to make you happy because they're starting with surveillance footage.

Speaker 3:
[31:10] You're going to make me happy. Okay.

Speaker 2:
[31:12] They're going to the surveillance footage from the sardine can. You were just a little early.

Speaker 3:
[31:15] All right, let's hear it. From the sardine can?

Speaker 2:
[31:18] Yeah, the second bar.

Speaker 3:
[31:19] We've got the watering hole, we've got the sardine can.

Speaker 2:
[31:21] Yes.

Speaker 3:
[31:21] Nice, nice.

Speaker 2:
[31:22] So on that footage, like I said, Nicky appears to be having a fun time dancing and drinking with friends until 11:15 PM. Then a little after 11:30 PM, she does get visibly upset after being on her phone and she does storm out of the bar. Now that footage does show their friend Erin following her to check on her. So this is when they decide to call Erin in for questioning. Like, hey, tell us a little bit more about what happened when she stormed out of the bar. He tells police, ah, she did have odd behavior in the street and how he did actually eventually go back to the bar after Nicky got physical with him. Remember, they had that little altercation and he goes back in. Plus, they have surveillance footage that shows him coming back alone around 1145 p.m., just minutes after he had walked out after her. So Erin's kind of a dead end and can easily be ruled off the suspect list. But there's more to that footage that night that does raise alarm bells, particularly how Doug and Greg come into the sardine can later. Remember, he come to meet her there so they can take her home. And they keep drinking in this footage. They don't seem too concerned about the fact that Nikki is missing, that she's supposed to be meeting them there.

Speaker 3:
[32:45] Which is messed up, yes. Illegal? No?

Speaker 2:
[32:51] I also think there could be like, well, she's still coming. This has been a messy night. She said she was talking to a friend. She's going to meet us here. So we're just going to keep the night going until she walks in.

Speaker 3:
[33:02] OK.

Speaker 2:
[33:03] You know what I mean? I do think there's...

Speaker 3:
[33:05] Maybe.

Speaker 2:
[33:05] I do.

Speaker 3:
[33:07] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[33:08] Sorry.

Speaker 3:
[33:09] It's OK. Yeah, maybe.

Speaker 2:
[33:11] I don't know why I said that like that.

Speaker 3:
[33:13] I do think.

Speaker 2:
[33:14] I do think that. I want to suck your blood.

Speaker 3:
[33:18] I want to suck your blood.

Speaker 2:
[33:20] I know I'm trying to give them the benefit of the doubt, but let me know if this changes when I tell you that they stayed there for two hours, having a good time basically waiting for her to show up. So when police see this, they're like, well, he said he went there to go pick her up. But on this footage, they seem to be having a good time. So they continue to look closer at Doug. And when they dive into his past, they learn that an ex-girlfriend of his once filed a domestic violence claim against him. It seems that she never actually pressed charges, but it was enough for police to wonder, hey, is this a pattern? His new girlfriend wound up dead, his ex-girlfriend filed a domestic violence claim. Plus, the more they talk to witnesses, the more they learn that this couple had their fair share of issues. I guess Doug had told his mother at one point that he just wasn't cut out to be a family man after they had their baby.

Speaker 3:
[34:17] Yeah, you should probably figure that out before you decide to have a baby, by the way.

Speaker 2:
[34:22] He even sent her a text that read, quote, this is going to be nothing but hell for 18 years. Which I would dare say a lot of newborn parents probably do feel that way.

Speaker 3:
[34:33] No, I can see that. Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[34:37] But this is the part that a lot of newborn parents might feel. He was even thinking of kicking Nicole and the kids, his newborn baby out of his house and just going single.

Speaker 3:
[34:48] He basically wanted to be a deadbeat dad.

Speaker 2:
[34:51] Yeah, a little. He's like, I want to go back to the bachelor lifestyle. I don't want a kid. I just wanted to hang out.

Speaker 3:
[34:57] Dude, some people when any form of hardships or trials happen, they just hold like a lawn chair, just straight, just nope. Nope, I'm not going to do anything hard in my life.

Speaker 2:
[35:09] And when police talked to Nikki's friends, they learned that she had told them that Doug, he kind of was a little bit of not a good dad. He often slept in, he called out of work. She tells her friends, this is irritating. Like we have a baby, this is immature. And then there were rumors that he was talking with other women, sending sexually explicit messages to other women. Basically, when police are learning about this, they realized Doug does not seem ready for fatherhood. And that began to take a toll on their relationship. They wanted different things. But is this enough motivation for murder?

Speaker 3:
[35:48] Also, it doesn't get rid of the fact that you still have a kid at home.

Speaker 2:
[35:51] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[35:52] So get rid of the wife. But I mean, that doesn't solve the problem that you think you have.

Speaker 2:
[35:59] This message is sponsored by Greenlight. Greenlight helps keep your family's financial and personal safety from becoming another cautionary tale. Greenlight is a debit card and app for families, but it's more than a money tool. It's a safety net for teaching kids about money while also helping protect them before bad habits, bad actors or real world risks take hold. And here's the problem. If you hand them cash, it is a total blind spot. You open a standard bank account, and you might see transactions later, but you can't set spending limits or block risky merchants. By the time you spot trouble, the money's already gone. You are always reacting, always playing defense. But Greenlight works differently. You get real-time notifications the second your child swipes their card. You can set spending controls by store category, see exactly where money is going, and it goes beyond money. Parents can get place alerts when kids come and go from school activities and home. Driving safety features help you understand risky behavior behind the wheel. Honestly, money education should be taught at such a young age, and it's not, and that is where Greenlight comes in.

Speaker 3:
[37:08] My family uses Greenlight. It's amazing. I know a lot of families that use it. My family uses it for my younger siblings. I think teaching the importance of money and what a dollar means is especially important in today's world, and Greenlight is the perfect place to do this. Every day, someone is handling money without guidance is a missed opportunity. Start your risk-free Greenlight trial today at greenlight.com/husband. Don't wait to teach your kids real world money skills. That's greenlight.com/husband to get started. greenlight.com/husband.

Speaker 2:
[37:38] All right, we're getting into an ad and traditional security brand contracts almost make me feel trapped and locked in. They have multi-year commitments, fine print that I don't actually read. And if life happens or my needs change, I can't end the service without eating a massive cancellation fee. But SimpliSafe changed the game by ditching the long-term contracts, offering affordable 24-7 professional monitoring protection without the strings attached. We use SimpliSafe. A lot of our family uses SimpliSafe. Garrett has actually set it up for a lot of them because it is so easy to set up, it's so easy to install, and they have everything.

Speaker 3:
[38:12] It's not just a camera, it's a comprehensive ecosystem of sensors, cameras for inside and out, and 24-7 professional monitoring. In the event of a break in fire or flood, SimpliSafe's agents are ready to take action. Named America's best customer service by Newsweek, plus over 5 million people trust SimpliSafe every day, and US News and World Report rank them the best home security system of 2026. We want you to experience the same peace of mind we do, which is why we've partnered with SimpliSafe to offer an exclusive discount to our listeners. Right now, you can get 50% off your new system by visiting simplisafe.com/husband. That's half off at simplisafe.com/husband. There's no safe like SimpliSafe.

Speaker 2:
[38:56] So police found this text message sent from Nikki to Doug on the 16th. So this is four days before their date night where she disappeared. And it said, quote, yelling at one of her kids this morning and talking about moving out. He's just a baby and filling your hatred. It makes me want to cry all day. Now Doug does apologize to her over text after this. She's obviously alluding to they had a rough morning. He was yelling, lost his patients with a baby. This made her sad. But it's these subtle clues that got police thinking he could be their best potential suspect, especially because while he was speaking with detectives the day before, they executed a search warrant on the house that he shared with Nicky, and they found a few things that didn't look great for him. While searching their garage, detectives spotted blood on the floor. They also found some on the inside of Nicky's car, specifically in the back seat. And then they discover a pair of Air Jordans that have what appear to be the same tread marks as the footprint they found on Nicky's back. And there was some bloody smudges on the bottom. Obviously, they bag and tag all of this, send it to the lab for confirmation. And eventually, the theory becomes, maybe Nicky did come home from the bar that night, and the two got into an argument at the house. Maybe he put her in her car and took her out to that field where he left her body after killing her either in the car or back at home. Now, shockingly, this theory holds even more weight when the day after executing the search warrant, a neighbor goes to the police and they say, hey, I think I found your crime scene. So this person lives right across the street from the couple and they tell police they noticed a pool of blood right along the curb in front of their house. They also found a phone charger cord, one that seemed to match what the medical examiner had believed was a murder weapon.

Speaker 3:
[41:05] It's just crazy to me. It's just crazy to me that people will just kill people. Just leave, just disappear in the night.

Speaker 2:
[41:15] I mean, this is pretty damning. The neighbors, I know you were looking over there, but right here on our sidewalk, we think we found your murder weapon.

Speaker 3:
[41:24] If you just disappear in the night, if you can't handle having a kid and you can't handle being a dad, first of all, embarrassing. Second of all, just leave. Like just, just don't kill. Don't kill somebody. Crazy.

Speaker 2:
[41:39] They also find a few clumps of blonde hair that does seem to be a perfect match with Nicky's. All of this is about 118 feet from Doug's front door. So police call him back in for questioning around May 23rd, two days after Nicky's found dead. And while they aren't ready to charge him with murder, they arrest 35-year-old Doug on suspicions of first-degree murder. And they hold him on a $1 million bond. And in the meantime, they're waiting for the DNA results on the evidence to come back. And during this, he's sitting in jail, okay, on a $1 million bond he can't pay. This feels pretty obvious. Like even friends and family were like, they've not been doing very well. The whole story is a little weird. So they're like, we got our guy, we just need to get an airtight case. And as all this is going on, little details start pointing away from Doug. For example.

Speaker 3:
[42:42] Shoot, it's not Doug? Yeah, I just ripped Doug a new one and it's not Doug? Or would you let me do that?

Speaker 2:
[42:48] Well, I will say if you did pay attention to my intro, which I know you weren't, I talked all about how DNA can exonerate wrongfully convicted people.

Speaker 3:
[42:58] I'm sorry, dude. I'm sorry. But it's okay.

Speaker 2:
[43:01] You were busy during the intro.

Speaker 3:
[43:02] Also, you can't blame me. You seemed like you were a little sketchy, but you're not, so I'm sorry. I apologize.

Speaker 2:
[43:10] Well, it's not just you. He's in jail.

Speaker 3:
[43:12] What's that? Well, that's true.

Speaker 2:
[43:15] Everyone is thinking he looks sketchy. What's that show? It's not just you.

Speaker 3:
[43:18] Who's the father? Or how does it go?

Speaker 2:
[43:20] You are not the father.

Speaker 3:
[43:22] You are not the father. But doesn't he come out and he goes like...

Speaker 2:
[43:27] People are going to slaughter us that we don't know the name of this show.

Speaker 3:
[43:30] I know the name of the show.

Speaker 2:
[43:31] I've never watched it, but I know...

Speaker 3:
[43:32] It starts with an M. Is that him?

Speaker 2:
[43:35] I don't know.

Speaker 3:
[43:35] You are not the father.

Speaker 2:
[43:37] And everyone, woo!

Speaker 3:
[43:38] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyways.

Speaker 2:
[43:40] I've seen one where they say you are not the father, and she cheers because she didn't want him to be the dad.

Speaker 3:
[43:47] Oh yeah, I know. I've seen that one. It's really sad. Yeah, it's really sad. Okay, so who's the killer? It's what I was trying to relate to, but they didn't.

Speaker 2:
[43:55] Well, you and police, you and police are trying to watch this TV show because they're like, why are we now seeing stuff that points away from our number one suspect right in front of his house? For example, Doug left his car overnight at the watering hole. He had to go get it the next day. Remember, Greg drove them back? This is something that was confirmed with video footage. So he didn't have a car. They also had data from Nicky's car from an insurance company tracking device called Snapshot. It proved that Nicky's car hadn't been used the night of the murder.

Speaker 3:
[44:29] So wait, how long have you been in jail for? Not super long, right?

Speaker 2:
[44:32] Not super long. But he is being held with, I mean, a million dollar bond. He's not going to pay that.

Speaker 3:
[44:36] When they think he did it, yeah.

Speaker 2:
[44:38] So if his car is on surveillance footage at the watering hole all night, and her car is not moved according to the tracking device, how did Doug kill her and then go drop her body off in a field? How did he kill her in front of the neighbor's house and then drop her body off in a field three miles away without a car? Police are like, what did he use? Like, okay. This is when police are like, okay, well, maybe Doug's friend Greg came back, drove Doug home. Maybe Doug then killed her and called Greg, and Greg came back and was an accessory. But when they look at the location data from his phone, he's at home. It lines up with the story both he and Doug are giving police.

Speaker 3:
[45:26] Who did it? Don't tell me it was some random person.

Speaker 2:
[45:30] Well, okay. Police are like, ah, this isn't looking good. Like, how are we going to approach this at trial? How did he move the body? And then they discover one giant piece of evidence that pretty much proves Doug's telling the truth. This is when they get into his Fitbit. Okay. Now, remember, we're back and we're not, he's rocking a Fitbit. Doug was wearing it the night Nikki disappeared. A Fitbit tracks your movements entirely. Specifically, that he'd only walked about 12 steps between 2:45 a.m. and then 6:30 a.m. when he got up to feed his baby. So, according to his story, he went to sleep at 3. And we know Dallas left the house. Nikki wasn't there. There wasn't that much time between the two. And then 6:30 a.m. when he feeds the baby. And in between that time, it continued registering his data. It still tracked his heart rate, which showed he didn't just take it off in between that and then put it back on to secure an alibi. He was wearing it the whole time, which means there is no way he could have killed his girlfriend and moved her body in 12 steps in between the time he falls asleep and Dallas leaves.

Speaker 3:
[46:49] So he didn't kill his girlfriend and he now doesn't have a girlfriend.

Speaker 2:
[46:53] And he's sitting in prison.

Speaker 3:
[46:54] And he's now a single dad sitting in prison.

Speaker 2:
[46:56] And this is something that becomes even more apparent 18 days after his arrest, when the DNA results finally come back and show the blood that was found in their garage was from a turkey he had hunted and butchered recently. And the blood inside Nikki's car, it wasn't hers, it was from one of her kids. And the shoes, the shoes that they were like, there's blood smudges and it matches. It wasn't even blood on them after all. And apparently it wasn't a match for the print on Nikki's body either. They just looked similar.

Speaker 3:
[47:27] Is this a cold case?

Speaker 2:
[47:29] So Doug is a free man. He's released from jail. Obviously his name's cleared. And detectives are at a complete loss as to what happened here. Again, what I said at the beginning, if they did not have modern day technology, the Fitbit, surveillance camera, DNA, convicted, he is a perfect suspect. I mean, when you're just basing it solely off of circumstantial evidence.

Speaker 3:
[47:56] Which is why I don't love people going, I mean, there's times, but yeah, doing life in prison off of circumstantial evidence can be hard.

Speaker 2:
[48:06] So they're at a loss, but they do have one thing. The blood and the hair that was found in front of Doug and Nikki's house, kind of by the neighbor's house that the neighbor reported, it does belong to Nikki. So this is their crime scene. Plus there's a partial DNA belonging to an unidentified male that was pulled from Nikki's clothes and the cord that was found at the crime scene. But now people realize, okay, Nikki was killed in front of her house that night, probably before Doug and Greg even got there. How did she get there from the bar? Which is kind of devastating if you think about the reality of this, that she's going to die right in front of her house and then her boyfriend's going to come home and then get put in prison for her murder and then it's not him.

Speaker 3:
[48:54] That's insane.

Speaker 2:
[48:55] Put in jail. I said prison. He doesn't go to prison. He's just in jail. Detectives start pulling surveillance footage, basically anything that leads from that area where the bars were to home. Doesn't get them anywhere. They're starting to hit dead ends and are worrying this case might run cold if nothing turns up soon. But then in August of 2016, three months after Nicky's death, they get some good news. One of the socks Nicky was wearing has enough DNA to run through the national database and they get a hit. It belongs to someone from the state of Virginia, 38-year-old George Birch. Now, George had just moved from Virginia to the Green Bay area two months before Nicky's death in March of 2016. And this is a guy who could stand out in a crowd. He was 6'7, 270 pounds. It's not someone who would really blend in and the police definitely took notice of that. So now that they have his name and his DNA on her socks, they start looking into his history. They find that back on June 8th, just a week or so after Nicky's death, George was questioned by the sheriff's department, but it was for something else. They believed he was involved in a hit and run accident with a stolen vehicle and that he then tried to burn that car in a fire. But George denied the accusations saying he was at a bar, texting with a woman on the evening in question, would happily give the police his phone to prove it. The police then say, hey, it actually just be a lot easier if we can just download the contents on your phone rather than like take a bunch of screenshots. We can just like do a mass download. Is that okay? According to the police, he says, yes. Again, this is questioning a week after for something else. They even have him sign a bunch of consent forms. Now, unfortunately, they never did prove it was George who, if he was guilty of the crimes involving the stone vehicle and burning it. But when those DNA results come back in August of 2016 and they get George's name and they're like, hey, wait a second, we actually have George's entire phone history in our systems from the week after this murder. We should use that to our advantage now that his DNA is linked to Nicky's case. See, George had Google Dashboard on his phone, which actually shows them not just what cell towers he pinged, but every Wi-Fi hotspot the phone encountered, as well as more exact GPS coordinates for specific dates and times.

Speaker 3:
[51:30] There's a lot going on here.

Speaker 2:
[51:31] When they look at the early hours of May 21st when Nicky disappeared, they realized he was really close to where she was. His night had started a half a mile away from where she was last seen at a bar called Richard Craniums. This is about a 12-minute walk to the sardine can or from the sardine can. It says he then went to his house from 2.32 to 2:38 a.m. And then his phone put him at her home or right outside of it.

Speaker 3:
[52:04] Okay, so why? Like why her just wrong place, wrong time, just like insane or?

Speaker 2:
[52:12] Yeah, I'll tell you what police come up with. His phone says he was right outside her house where we know the crime happened for about an hour from 3.01 to 3:53 a.m. Then he was at that field where her body was later discovered. That was from 3:58 a.m. to about 4:02 a.m. By 4:05 a.m., he was right near where her items were later discovered on the side of Highway 172. And then he was back at home by 4:22 a.m. And in the days after this, his phone showed he had searched the internet over 60 times for new stories about Nicky's death. And maybe one of the most disturbing parts about all of this is, this is not the first time he's accused of murder. Back in 1998, he stood trial for shooting and killing a gang leader named Joey White. He was found not guilty on all charges due to lack of evidence. Police are basically armed with all of this explosive evidence against him, including DNA. Police are ready to arrest George for Nicky's murder on September 7th, 2016. And then finally, two years later, February of 2018, his case goes to trial. George even took the stand in his own defense, but the story he told was shocking. He tried to put the heat back on the one person who had already taken enough.

Speaker 3:
[53:43] Doug.

Speaker 2:
[53:44] Doug.

Speaker 3:
[53:45] Dang, Doug just got drugged through the wringer.

Speaker 2:
[53:49] So, George claims this night he met Nicky at the bar, Roger Craniums. She had left Sardine Bar and walked to Roger and then met George and the two started flirting. He offered her a ride back to her house and said that was when the two actually ended up having sex in his car outside the house, which is why his phone's there. But then he says, Doug, who's home at this time, comes out with a gun. So from the time she's at the bar with George, Doug goes to with Greg to Sardine Cans, waits for her, then goes home, gets home, goes to bed, Dallas and Greg leave, and he's outside with Nicky, and then Doug comes out with a gun. George claims Doug hit him over the head and knocked him unconscious, and the next thing he remembered was waking up on the ground, he was outside of his truck and that Nicky was dead. He said, then at gunpoint, Doug forced him to drive to the field to help him get rid of Nicky's body, which explains the car. And after that, George claimed he fought Doug off, got back into his truck, and Doug was forced to walk home, where his six-month-old was sleeping in his crib alone.

Speaker 3:
[55:04] So you just blame Doug basically.

Speaker 2:
[55:05] It's a ridiculous tale, one that couldn't be taken seriously at all, mostly because we have the Fitbit. We have the Fitbit. Proved George's story was a lie because he didn't take it off and he was sleeping. So instead, prosecutors paint a different picture. That night, an angry Nikki did walk to Richard Cranium's after leaving her friends at the sardine can. And there, she did meet George. And after they spent some time to get her at the bar, he did offer her a ride home. Then once he pulled up in front of her house, he sexually assaulted her, likely strangling her with a phone cord.

Speaker 3:
[55:42] Insane. Okay.

Speaker 2:
[55:44] She then fell out of the vehicle. It escalates outside on the neighbor's side. He continues to stomp on her back, her head ends up killing her. This is the story that obviously rings true to the jury. On March 1st, 2018, 44-year-old George Birch was found guilty of first degree murder and was sentenced to life in prison without parole. Since then, George has tried to appeal his sentence, claiming the police violated his Fourth Amendment rights when searching his phone for Nicky's case.

Speaker 3:
[56:14] Okay, dude.

Speaker 2:
[56:15] He also argued that evidence from Doug's Fitbit should not have been allowed at trial because there was no expert to analyze the technology's reliability. The Supreme Court disagreed. They rejected his appeal in 2021. But perhaps one silver lining in this case that I started it with is an innocent man didn't take the fall because of these new technologies. Modern day crime solving, if you will. The right person is behind bars. George Birch can't hurt anyone else.

Speaker 3:
[56:49] Killing someone is just nuts. It's crazy to not kill someone. It's just crazy to murder somebody for no reason.

Speaker 2:
[57:01] And here's the thing. We can't blame you for pointing the finger.

Speaker 3:
[57:06] I feel bad. Sorry, Doug.

Speaker 2:
[57:08] Well, you can't blame you because in a typical case, this actually does make sense. Like most, they found blood in the garage. They found blood in the car. They found the crime scene in front of his house. Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[57:24] It turned out to be Turkey.

Speaker 2:
[57:25] Yeah. But it's like, I mean, it almost feels like a CSI episode where it's like all the evidence just points to someone and then there's just this random coincidence where it's not them. That's almost what it feels like. And thankfully, because of these technologies, they were able to get the right person. And while some may argue that technology can be invasive and it definitely can be used against us, there is one thing that helps me sleep at night. And it's that most of my devices, if I'm not doing anything wrong, should have my back. And they offer indiscriminate proof. Should I ever find myself in an unthinkable situation? Doug had his fitbit. And that is the story of Nicole VanderHeyden.

Speaker 3:
[58:13] It's crazy. I just also sucked just now. I mean, this was, I guess, a while ago, but just having to raise a kid on your own now.

Speaker 2:
[58:20] Yeah. When? This wasn't even what he saw for his life. Like every single eyewitness came forward and was like, he does not want to be a dad.

Speaker 3:
[58:30] I'm sure it's different now.

Speaker 2:
[58:31] Well, I know, but I'm just saying, like now it's even harder because he's going to do it alone.

Speaker 3:
[58:36] For sure. It's crazy. Yeah, she's dead. That's crazy. It's sad.

Speaker 2:
[58:42] And like, okay. Got a ride home from the wrong person.

Speaker 3:
[58:46] Just got killed for no reason.

Speaker 2:
[58:49] All right, you guys, that was our episode for this week and we will see you next time with another one. I love it.

Speaker 3:
[58:54] And I hate it.

Speaker 2:
[58:55] Goodbye.

Speaker 5:
[59:02] This podcast is brought to you by Carvana. Selling your car should feel like one less thing on your list, not one more. With Carvana, it is. Just go to carvana.com, enter your license plate or VIN, and get a real offer down to the penny. No back and forth, no surprises, just an experience you can trust. Like your offer? Accept it, schedule a pickup, and we'll come to you with a check in hand. Your car, your timeline, your terms. Visit carvana.com to sell your car today. Delivery fees and terms may apply.