transcript
Speaker 1:
[00:16] Girl, beautiful gowns.
Speaker 2:
[00:23] Hi, I'm Lauren Garroni, and I'm Chelsea Fairless, and welcome back to the Every Outfit podcast. We are doing our monthly rewatch of a Sex and the City episode. We noticed that our season two rewatch viewing has been lacking, so we've decided to do a season two episode.
Speaker 3:
[00:40] The season two finale.
Speaker 2:
[00:42] Ex and the City. Chelsea, you chose this episode. Was there any particular reason why?
Speaker 3:
[00:47] No.
Speaker 2:
[00:48] Well, all right, then. This is written and directed by Daddy MPK. This is purely his vision, and dare I say, this is really where the sex and the city that we come to know and love really is fully formed in this episode. At least that's my feeling.
Speaker 3:
[01:07] Well, it did a hard pivot to a romantic dramedy in this episode, for sure.
Speaker 2:
[01:13] Dare I say, verging on a horror film at times, which begins with the first scene, which is Miranda and Carrie outside of a bodega, buying flowers from a street vendor.
Speaker 3:
[01:24] Carrie's like, should I get the $5 ones that last three days or the $10 ones that last five days? Both hideously ugly choices, might I say.
Speaker 2:
[01:32] Well, I consider you the floral expert, so I was going to ask you, what is the better buy?
Speaker 3:
[01:38] I would never buy a mixed bouquet from a street vendor, from a supermarket. I would rather just buy one type of flower than do that. By that logic, I would buy the $5 bouquet that lasts three days.
Speaker 2:
[01:51] I do like that the girls are seemingly running errands, which we don't see them do very often. More so in the earlier seasons than the latter seasons. I also couldn't help but notice that Miranda is on her cell phone and I'm like, with who? Like this is 1998, 1999, someone from the firm checking in on that legal brief. Anyway, Miranda spots Steve coming down the street, having just played some hoops with the boys, I guess.
Speaker 3:
[02:20] Yeah, he looks so cute and dumb, like a golden retriever in his roots basketball jersey.
Speaker 2:
[02:26] Well, before we get into the psychoness that Miranda does in this scene, I just wanted to discuss with you Miranda and Carrie's casual looks, because we've got Carrie in this like creamy, maybe butter yellow. Butter yellow makes several appearances in this episode. I noticed Big later in this episode as a butter yellow, cashmere polo.
Speaker 3:
[02:47] Butter yellow has been making a lot of appearances in general. Like, have you stepped into a Zara recently?
Speaker 2:
[02:53] Oh, yeah. I mean, I think this is perhaps Molly Boz and her, unfortunately, now burned down, but very influential butter yellow kitchen that was featured in Domino magazine and a lot of her cooking videos.
Speaker 3:
[03:07] RIP.
Speaker 2:
[03:07] So, yeah, Carrie is in these, as I said, butter cream, yellow pants, and then this tie dyed pink tank top. And Miranda is in whatever they like to put Miranda in. It's very Chico's.
Speaker 3:
[03:21] It also could be interpreted as a Contempo Casuals type of thing. It's not dissimilar from something that Winona Ryder's character might wear in Reality Bites, a small scale, vaguely bohemian floral print.
Speaker 2:
[03:35] Speaking of RIP., RIP. Contempo Casuals, anyway, they see Steve or really Miranda sees Steve, pulls Carrie away, has the most insane reaction to seeing an ex on the street and flees, I mean, literally runs. And does Carrie steal that bouquet?
Speaker 3:
[03:55] No, I think she just drops it on the ground and then like the bodega man yells at her.
Speaker 2:
[04:00] Well, yeah, she has not paid for the bouquet and now the bouquet is ruined and he can't sell it.
Speaker 3:
[04:06] It is really sad looking at Steve's face in this scene.
Speaker 2:
[04:10] Yeah, they do a great kind of cut to Steve who has, as Miranda will describe in the next scene, these puppy dog eyes, or maybe it's Carrie who describes him as having puppy dog eyes. But it made me realize that Steve is wearing his glasses, which he usually does, which makes me question, does he wear the glasses while he's playing basketball?
Speaker 3:
[04:30] I assume so.
Speaker 2:
[04:32] And then I have to say, this is maybe my favorite structure to Sex and the City episodes where we get a cold open with the girls and then a hard cut to a diner scene where they're discussing what has just happened in the scene before. We get some pretty great dialogue. Miranda explains her actions by saying, I'm sorry, I panicked. What am I supposed to do? Chat about the weather? The man's been inside me.
Speaker 3:
[04:55] And then this dovetails into a conversation about, can you be friends with a man, basically?
Speaker 2:
[05:03] Well, yes. Broadly speaking, it's, can you be friends with an ex? But because these are all heteronormative women who date men, it's, can you be friends with a man after you've had sex with them? And Samantha has this line where she goes, I've never been friends with men. Women are for friendships, men are for fucking. To which Carrie immediately says, you must learn to form an opinion. And this Carrie line has always haunted me because I'm like, but that is an opinion.
Speaker 3:
[05:30] I think she's being sarcastic, honey.
Speaker 2:
[05:32] Is she?
Speaker 3:
[05:33] Yes, of course she's being sarcastic. Oh, you think she was earnestly saying that to Samantha?
Speaker 2:
[05:40] I don't know with Carrie. Wow, that's really breaking my mind.
Speaker 3:
[05:44] This conversation really highlights the fact that they just have like quite dark and sad relationships with men generally, if this is how they feel.
Speaker 2:
[05:53] OK, can we get into Charlotte's perspective about this? Because she says if they don't want a relationship, that they don't get me as a friend. And isn't that the exact same thing that Miranda is saying? Just in a different way? Because Miranda is like, I cannot be friends with a man who's been inside me. And then Charlotte's perspective is basically, as Carrie puts it, you punish the men by withholding your friendship if the relationship doesn't work out.
Speaker 3:
[06:19] Right. I don't know. This conversation really just affirms my belief that a lot of couples do not have anything in common. So once you take sex out of the equation, there's like nothing left.
Speaker 2:
[06:30] That's interesting. I was going to get into this with I Couldn't Help But Wonder, but I will just say it now, which is I do think, and maybe this is a narrow view, but in heterosexual relationships that don't work out, I think you can only be friends if the sexual component is taken out.
Speaker 3:
[06:47] Yeah, but like if the sexual component is taking out, then the guy doesn't give a shit about you anymore. And once women realize that the guy isn't the one, as Charlotte would say, then the woman doesn't give a shit either.
Speaker 2:
[07:02] Well, I suppose that this point could be made better if Skipper was still in the world of Sex and the City because that is a straight man that Carrie is friends with and she does not have a sexual relationship with him.
Speaker 3:
[07:16] That's true.
Speaker 2:
[07:17] Miranda does. As she says, her relationship philosophy is, we didn't work out, you need not to exist, which is basically what she does to Skipper.
Speaker 3:
[07:26] Look, you're right. Skipper is an exception to the rule for Carrie anyway, although she did stop hanging out with him.
Speaker 2:
[07:34] Or did the show just lose interest in Skipper?
Speaker 3:
[07:36] Well, that too. Absolutely. I don't know. Obviously, I think that straight men and straight women can be friends, but are they often like close, close friends? I believe we touched upon this when we discussed My Best Friend's Wedding. Like relationships like that do not exist.
Speaker 2:
[07:53] No, of course not.
Speaker 3:
[07:55] Like I feel like if a straight man and a straight woman are friends, it's usually because they work together or they're friends with their friend's wife or something.
Speaker 2:
[08:06] Or like I think about I am friends and friendly with Paul's friends, sort of exterior circle. But this is specifically about can you be friends with someone you used to have sex with? And I do think that that is difficult for heterosexual couples unless you have a child in common or a pet in common, that you need to have some sort of co-parenting relationship after the relationship ends.
Speaker 3:
[08:32] I don't know. My dad wasn't super close friends, but my dad was really friendly with his second wife, who was just always around at our parties and shit when I was growing up. So I guess I never thought it was like out of the realm of possibility that two exes that didn't have kids could be friends if they were a straight couple. But it seems like in the world of sex in the city, this is not an achievable goal.
Speaker 2:
[08:58] No, which going back to the skipper of it all is, I think why they phased him out of the series, even though he is a real person in Candice's column, is to your point, and this is what I think is so strong about this episode, the worldview of sex in the city and what we will see in the coming seasons really coalesces in this episode. Although, this whole conversation we've just had is moot because Carrie kind of says to everyone how ridiculous this point of view is, right? We keep dresses we'll never wear, but we throw away our ex-boyfriends. I love that Carrie is kind of workshopping her. I couldn't help but wonder at the diner because she's like, if you love someone and you break up, where does the love go? To which Samantha is like, to their next girlfriend.
Speaker 3:
[09:43] Which I don't think is necessarily true. I think every relationship is unique and Carrie also makes this point. She says there's no way that what Big and I had is the same as what Natasha and Big have.
Speaker 2:
[09:54] Which is true, but I do think a previous relationship does impact the next relationship.
Speaker 3:
[10:02] Right, because so often you go for the opposite of your last relationship.
Speaker 2:
[10:06] Yes, and as we will learn in season three between Big and Natasha's dynamic, I think a point could be made that Big, in reaction to dating someone like Carrie, just wanted someone super simple.
Speaker 3:
[10:19] Right, someone that was Beige and then he realized that Beige was boring, or Beige was bullshit, excuse me.
Speaker 2:
[10:25] Speaking of bullshit, there's also something that is so true in this scene about female friendship. There is this moment where they are all stunned in silence because Carrie finally calls her Natasha and Miranda goes, when did you stop calling her the stick figure with no soul?
Speaker 3:
[10:41] The idiot stick figure with no soul.
Speaker 2:
[10:43] Sorry, the idiot stick figure with no soul. This will come up several times in this episode. And Carrie has this really reflective moment where she tells the girls, I saw them together and I realized, they're happy slash we're over. And there's something so brutal about that moment that Carrie is describing because I think what is even more devastating than breaking up with someone is that moment when you realize there's no chance for you and that person to get back together. And then it is followed up with the Natasha, what a bullshit name, which I do think this gets to a certain aspect of female friendships that's not great and kind of dark, which is like talking shit about other women to make your girlfriend feel better.
Speaker 3:
[11:25] Oh, for sure. But it's very transparent that this is what they're doing in this scene. Obviously, they don't have beef with Natasha, but they have beef in solidarity, at least behind closed doors or in the privacy of their own diner.
Speaker 2:
[11:40] And then that leads us right into the I Couldn't Help But Wonder.
Speaker 1:
[11:43] Later that night, I got to thinking about the X factor. In mathematics, we learned that X stands for the unknown. A plus B equals X. But what's really unknown is, what plus what equals friendship with an X? Is this an unsolvable equation? Or is it possible to transform a once passionate love into something that fits nice and easily onto the friendship shelf? I couldn't help but wonder, can you be friends with an X?
Speaker 2:
[12:12] Depends on the X. I think we got into this a little earlier, but I mean, this seems to be a preoccupation with Daddy MPK, right? He wrote this episode. This is something that he really explores in season four, the idea of Carrie and Big being friends genuinely.
Speaker 1:
[12:30] Right.
Speaker 3:
[12:31] I think for this particular group of people, the answer is no. Carrie, Miranda and Charlotte will all be incapable of this. Samantha, sure, she could be friends with an ex.
Speaker 2:
[12:44] I mean, she's friends with Smith Jared, right? She accompanies him to his... What is that movie in Sex and the City 2? Whatever film that he shoots in Abu Dhabi that is basically the inciting incident for them to go to Abu Dhabi.
Speaker 3:
[12:57] Right.
Speaker 2:
[12:59] My mother and I are very alike. Our voices sound the same. We look similar, but she doesn't carry the same sarcastic point of view that I've been blessed with. For example, when I've been upset about, say, a negative podcast review, she always finds the silver lining. Hey, they took the time to write a review. That means they care. See, she always sees the best in people. Now, most Mother's Day gifts are about one moment, but with Storyworth, it can be so much more. Storyworth gives your mom a year-long experience. It gives your family a book filled with stories only she can tell. Each week, Storyworth sends her a question about her life. She responds however she wants, writing back over email or web, voice recording, or, new this year, a guided phone call. So, no apps, logins or tech hassles, and we know how important that can be to our Boomer parents. You get each story as she tells it, and after a year, Storyworth compiles everything, her words, her photos, her life, into a beautiful hardcover book. You can even help pick the questions. Choose from pre-written questions, write your own, or let Storyworth create personalized questions based on her life. I'm currently doing a Storyworth with my mother for baby Morty. As sappy as this sounds, I did have a child later in life, and I know my child won't have as much time with his grandparents as I had with mine. So I think this is amazing exercise for my mother to tell her life in her own words that can be passed down through the generations. Families have used Storyworth to create over a million books, and more than 50,000 five-star reviewers agree, it will be a treasure your family will love. This year, give mom a gift that helps her reflect on her life with a fresh perspective and gives your whole family the gift of her stories. Mother's Day is Sunday, May 10th. Order right now and save up to $20 at storyworth.com/outfit. Save up to $20 at storyworth.com/outfit, storyworth.com/outfit. I was thinking about these women to your point. Can I imagine any of them friends with their exes? And it's like, I can imagine Carrie being friends with Justin Theroux, like his character Vaughn, or perhaps David Duchovny, or Charlotte and Trey, or post-queer Miranda with Steve. So basically, when sex is taken out of the equation, I can imagine these people being friends with their former paramours.
Speaker 3:
[15:19] See, I can't. I don't think they're capable of that, especially those Carrie boyfriends. Absolutely not.
Speaker 2:
[15:25] I'm still mad that we never got a third Justin Theroux boyfriend on just like that.
Speaker 3:
[15:30] I personally don't understand why it is so hard for so many people to be friends with their exes. In lesbian culture, it's obviously extremely normalized to have a close friendship with your ex.
Speaker 2:
[15:43] I mean, you can just say it, Chelsea. You're talking about the straights.
Speaker 3:
[15:47] I'm talking about the straights. But I don't know why that works with women. Maybe two women have more in common to begin with, so there's more leftover, I suppose.
Speaker 2:
[15:58] Well, I mean, women are from Venus and men are from Mars, so.
Speaker 3:
[16:02] Right. And those planetary differences can never be overcome.
Speaker 2:
[16:07] So Steve essentially stalks Miranda, right? I mean, he shows up at her apartment unannounced, somehow gets into the building.
Speaker 3:
[16:15] I don't know if that's stalking. It would be stalking if she randomly ran into him, like, I don't know, at the restaurant next to her work or something. But this is a very unsubtle. I am coming to see you to talk about something specific.
Speaker 2:
[16:29] I guess it's the idea that he got past the front door buzzer or the doorman and just shows up at her door. Although this is the second time in season two that he does this, because after they sleep together for the first time, he does show up at her front door. This is one of those New York movie and TV conventions that you just have to go with that in real life is a little harder to just show up at someone's front door.
Speaker 3:
[16:53] What do you mean? You just ring every single buzzer until someone buzzes you in. It's actually very easy to get into any building.
Speaker 2:
[17:01] Which lends to my point that it's kind of stalker behavior. But anyway, if this episode proves anything, it is that Steve has game. He's very convincing, even when he is calling Miranda basically a shitty person for running away from him. Well, it shows that Steve has self-respect, which he will lose all of that when and just like that happens. But I love this scene so much. Going back to this idea, at least in my mind, that this is really where Sex and the City becomes the Sex and the City we know and love. There's something about this scene where they have this Tracy Hepburn, Ratatatat back and forth with each other. But it's about being shitty, which seems so Sex and the City.
Speaker 4:
[17:45] And then I did that shitty thing.
Speaker 3:
[17:47] It wasn't that shitty, really.
Speaker 4:
[17:50] It was a shitty thing. I'm a shitty person.
Speaker 3:
[17:52] You're not a shitty person.
Speaker 4:
[17:53] I am. I am shitty. You would never do anything that shitty.
Speaker 1:
[17:57] What do you call showing up at your apartment in the middle of the afternoon and calling you shitty?
Speaker 4:
[18:02] Yeah, that was pretty shitty.
Speaker 3:
[18:03] It's also an incredible moment of vulnerability for Miranda. She's caught off guard in her apartment. She's wearing, might I just say, a perfect fitting sort of ribbed white baby tee.
Speaker 2:
[18:15] They don't make those anymore. And you used to be able to walk into any mall store and get one of those.
Speaker 3:
[18:21] She's not in the armor of one of her power suits or something. And she, of course, instantly realizes how fucked up what she did was and feels genuine shame and remorse.
Speaker 2:
[18:31] But we've talked about this because I think we did the episode where they broke up. We also have done a VIP episode that was a deep dive on their relationship. And I forget that a lot of these Sex and the City relationships that are so consequential, like Big and Carrie and Miranda and Steve, Miranda, you know, my memory is that, oh, Miranda breaks up with Steve, but she doesn't. I mean, their breakup is kind of nebulous in season two, right? It's all about this suit and going to a work function. And he returns the suit. And in so many words, it's like, I can't give you what you obviously need. So we can't be together anymore. And then has the balls to kind of be like, but why can't we go for a meal and be friends?
Speaker 3:
[19:17] Well, he clearly still wants to be with Miranda. I have unfinished business, as we know.
Speaker 2:
[19:22] I do like the button to the C where he goes, what are you doing Friday? And she's still all teary. And she goes, I have a date and begins sobbing a little bit. And he goes, looking forward to it, are you?
Speaker 3:
[19:33] I feel that we should also highlight this line of dialogue that Miranda has where she says, I miss you whenever something funny happens. I always want to tell you about it. That made me remember that, I guess Olivia Rodrigo gave an interview about her next album. And she said that she wrote a song that was inspired by Miranda and Steve and this line specifically. So I can't wait to hear that. I believe her album comes out in June. It also reminded me, we're both reading Bell Bird and Strangers. And it reminded me of that devastating part where she discusses wanting to talk to her estranged husband about these birds that nest on their property.
Speaker 2:
[20:13] Right, right.
Speaker 3:
[20:13] And her realization that she can't.
Speaker 2:
[20:16] Now I'm just sad.
Speaker 3:
[20:18] It's very sad.
Speaker 2:
[20:19] I mean, I would rather discuss what this Olivia Rodrigo song might be rather than getting into Charlotte's storyline, which, again, we notice certain tropes as we're doing this rewatch. And one of them is that throughout the theme of the episode, one character is just going to get an underserved storyline. And this episode is definitely Charlotte's.
Speaker 3:
[20:42] Oh, yeah. Well, the theme is also quite stretched thin, right? Because every single girl's plotline deals with the idea of friendship in some capacity. Can you be friends with an ex, with a man, whatever? But in Charlotte's case, it's like, can you reestablish a friendship with horses after the trauma of your childhood horse accident?
Speaker 2:
[21:07] I mean, even if we didn't get a storyline about Charlotte being a horse girl, she just gives horse girl energy, for sure.
Speaker 3:
[21:15] And I get that this is playing into the, you know, a horse is a girl's best friend kind of thing.
Speaker 2:
[21:21] I guess. But for Charlotte, it's like, can she get over the trauma of being not only thrown from a horse, but we learned that her father then sold that horse. And so she finds a horse that kind of looks like her first horse, but not really.
Speaker 3:
[21:39] I'm more confused how she's managed to live this close to the park for all these years and not been confronted with this horse trauma on the daily.
Speaker 2:
[21:47] Well, we learned that Charlotte's question is, as through Carrie's voiceover, Charlotte wondered if it was time to get back in the saddle. So now we set up Samantha's storyline where she meets maybe the most Samantha type man we have ever seen for her.
Speaker 3:
[22:05] Absolutely. He is her type, which is a white brunette man, beefy as hell.
Speaker 2:
[22:12] Thick Long Island slash Staten Island accent.
Speaker 3:
[22:16] This is like the finance version of the firefighter that she met in the beginning of season two.
Speaker 2:
[22:23] He's absolutely perfect for Samantha. What could go wrong? I do like that Daddy MPK is foreshadowing what their relationship issue might be, right? Where Samantha says to him, blatantly picking up a woman on the street, how did you get to be so cocky? I was born that way, I guess. And he goes, at least consider meeting me for a friendly little drink. I'll think about it, Mr. Cocky.
Speaker 3:
[22:47] Samantha also looks so hot in this scene.
Speaker 2:
[22:50] Oh my God, this red vava voom dress in the middle of the day.
Speaker 3:
[22:55] Yeah, it's like a fire engine, red body con cocktail dress. She's carrying shopping bags from Barneys and Gucci. And I love when Mr. Cocky gives her his business card. She just like puts it in her bra. That's chic.
Speaker 2:
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Speaker 3:
[25:21] Foreshadowing the shit that she wore during that trip to Virginia on and just like that.
Speaker 2:
[25:25] Oh my God, you're so right.
Speaker 3:
[25:28] But Carrie is wearing the most classic 90s hot girl look, which is a white camisole with a slinky beaded pink midi skirt. This just was the silhouette of the time. I wore some approximation of this to prom with a pashmina, I remember.
Speaker 2:
[25:49] You got to have the pashmina. Not if it's a little brisk outside.
Speaker 3:
[25:53] You would also wear like your midi skirts with those like silk platform flip flops or like slippers from the Chinese import store.
Speaker 2:
[26:02] See the footwear is getting into Miranda territory.
Speaker 3:
[26:05] Yeah, Miranda did that look.
Speaker 2:
[26:07] I love this scene because it reminds me of the days of worrying about caller ID because Carrie calls Big not anticipating that it could be Natasha who answers the phone. Then she realizes that Big has caller ID. Caller ID, a big fascination of like mid to late 90s media. I remember that's a like central point in Scream 2, is that they can like star 69, the number.
Speaker 3:
[26:34] Oh, star 69 was incredible. What a time to be alive.
Speaker 2:
[26:37] Now, did they have to choose 69? That felt very pointed. Anyway, so Carrie's like, shit, I have to call back because Big has caller ID and will know that I have called. And this is when Big picks up the phone. This scene, Carrie becomes a Woody Allen character. She's very nervous. She has a prepared speech. She stutters.
Speaker 3:
[26:59] Of course, she's not on her A game. I mean, neither is Big, but no, they're both on their C game in this episode, I would say.
Speaker 2:
[27:08] I love that Carrie has a prepared speech and has no chill and then tells Big that she has prepared a little speech, which is, I was wondering what you thought of, instead of pretending each other doesn't exist, we try to be friends or something.
Speaker 3:
[27:23] The first of many attempts to be friends with Mr. Big, that just doesn't go well.
Speaker 2:
[27:29] I do think if you're going to try to be friends with an ex, lunch is the appropriate meal. Don't do a dinner. Don't do drinks. If you can, try to make it a lunch, maybe a coffee.
Speaker 3:
[27:39] Although coffee is too informal. Coffee is sad. I think lunch is perfect. I'm with you. Lunch or brunch. They end up going to 11 Madison Park, which still exists in the Flatiron District, or as Julio Torres refers to it in his latest HBO special, the Eataly District.
Speaker 2:
[27:58] I do love the subtle nod to the fact that Mr. Big has a real name because Carrie goes, back when we were dating, I used to put it under the reservation under his name, but today I've put it under my name, Bradshaw.
Speaker 3:
[28:13] She shows up wearing a little pink flouncy wrap dress sort of thing. She looks hot.
Speaker 2:
[28:19] I mean, this is incredible Carrie-style episode, but we'll get into that in a little bit. I must say, I do love when Chris Noth plays Big very nervous or out of sorts.
Speaker 3:
[28:32] Yeah, it only happened a handful of times, and this is one of them.
Speaker 2:
[28:36] And I think this might be the first time that we see him not in his usual suave, debonair kind of manner, which is a wonderful power dynamic shift, which Carrie notes in this episode of like, oh, he's nervous. Like the friend in me wants to comfort him, but the ex-girlfriend feels great about this.
Speaker 3:
[28:55] Of course. So they sit down, they start drinking. She has a Cosmo, he has Scotch. She makes fun of him for listening to Blood, Sweat and Tears, which is where we get this lore about Mr. Big's vinyl collection.
Speaker 2:
[29:11] I think he was a later-in-life vinyl guy. Obviously, he was an original vinyl guy, but as we'll see later in this episode, he's really rocking that sharper image, five-stack TV player tower.
Speaker 3:
[29:23] Yes, he is. And he apparently loves a jazz rock moment, which, unfortunate, but could be worse.
Speaker 2:
[29:29] Trying to answer our question of why the streets can't be friends with each other post-breakup, I think where things fall apart, where queer relationships or post-queer relationship friendships tend to get it better, is talking about current relationships. I think for the straights, this is where shit breaks down. As we learn with this scene between Carrie and Big, right? She asks about Natasha, he basically gets one more down and she's like, you know what, let's not do this.
Speaker 3:
[29:56] What she says is, tell me about the girl, which is Carrie's attempt to bro down with him. And whenever she does this, it really stresses me out. I also got a bit of this like in the Willow Summers conversation later in the show.
Speaker 2:
[30:12] Yeah, we get Big almost having phone sex with Carrie, but about his experience with Willow Summers.
Speaker 3:
[30:19] It grosses me out. It's a weird vibe. I'm not surprised that Carrie immediately pivots.
Speaker 2:
[30:24] And she's like, you know what, let's make a pact to only talk about our relationships if they're serious. And again, Chris Noss acting in this episode is so great because he goes from being nervous to being serious. And you can tell by the look on his face, before he even says that they're engaged, you just know that he and Natasha got engaged. And it leads to maybe one of the best Carrie crash outs we've ever seen.
Speaker 1:
[30:49] I just got a splitting headache.
Speaker 2:
[30:51] Well, I didn't know how to tell you it.
Speaker 1:
[30:56] And when you call for lunch- Engaged? How can you be engaged? You have a problem with commitment, remember? In fact, you told me you never wanted to get married again, ever.
Speaker 2:
[31:10] Well, things change.
Speaker 1:
[31:11] Meaning what? You just didn't want to marry me.
Speaker 2:
[31:13] Look, Natasha and I-
Speaker 1:
[31:14] Don't say her name to me. Don't you dare say her name to me. You string me along for two years and then you marry some twenty-five-year-old girl after only five months?
Speaker 2:
[31:25] I did not string you along.
Speaker 1:
[31:26] Okay, yeah, right, fine.
Speaker 2:
[31:27] That's right.
Speaker 1:
[31:27] You didn't string me along. You know what? I have to go. I have a headache.
Speaker 2:
[31:31] And this is when Carrie's Fendi baguette takes the chair down with her as she tries to leave. She falls, a waiter's platter goes crashing down. I mean, the chaos of this scene as she tries to leave is truly the level of messiness I miss on television.
Speaker 3:
[31:49] Totally. I also miss when people filmed on location like this. Like, this is a huge, fancy Manhattan restaurant with a ton of extras in this scene. Like, I miss the drama of that and the spectacle of it. And I love when she trips down the stairs also.
Speaker 2:
[32:05] Right, which is this callback because Big trips going up the stairs, she trips going down the stairs, and then makes a point to the hostess of like, you should do something about this, which is always a great like, I fucked up, but I'm going to make it someone else's fault.
Speaker 3:
[32:21] Carrie also said as she was dramatically leaving, be engaged, get married to Nijinsky or whatever her name is. I've never spent more than two seconds thinking about the fact that she calls Natasha Nijinsky, but do you think this could be a combination of Natasha Kinsky's name into a single word?
Speaker 2:
[32:40] I think that that is a good working theory. It's not until and just like that that we realize that Natasha Nijinsky really is her name.
Speaker 3:
[32:51] But, okay, I don't think it was her name back then. I think they made that choice either because, A, they thought it would be a fun callback to make her last name Nijinsky on An Just Like That, or they forgot that that wasn't actually her name and they just Googled her character and that came up.
Speaker 2:
[33:10] You think the writer's assistant in the An Just Like That writer's room is like, her last name is Nijinsky, and they're like, right, right.
Speaker 3:
[33:17] I really think it could be either scenario.
Speaker 2:
[33:20] But the way that Carrie says Nijinsky or whatever has always made it seem like she just made up her last name.
Speaker 3:
[33:27] Yes, that's why I don't believe that her character was supposed to be named that. It's obviously something that came to Carrie in the moment, directly following her saying, don't say her name to me.
Speaker 2:
[33:39] But it's equally possible that Carrie has of course committed this woman's name to memory. I mean, thank God Carrie was married before Google stocking someone became a possibility. Although that's a behavior we never saw in it just like that, the few times we saw her dating as a single woman. I'm back to talk about Whatnot, the number one live shopping app in the US. It's a live shopping marketplace where you can find unique items live, deals drop live daily, so you get real deals, you guessed it in real time. You've heard Chelsea and I discuss our love of online shopping and our search for a good deal as well as our love of online auctions. But what if there was an app that combined all of our online fixations? See, that's Whatnot. Imagine dozens of live streamers with their own QVC show. You could search by brand or type. For instance, I like many am obsessed with early 2000s Athleisure and have been on the hunt for a Capri track pan. Whatnot is filled with Athleisure sellers. There are also great vintage sellers too. I was just watching a sale that focused on 1970s crochet and vintagely advice and bought a truly wild Betsy Johnson crochet vest. With Whatnot, you almost never pay full price. Shop name brands across makeup, perfume, clothes, handbags, jewelry, and so much more, all without the retail sticker shock. This is the best place to find great deals on products you will love. Download the Whatnot app today and get free shipping on your first order. Just search W-H-A-T-N-O-T, that's Whatnot, in the app store and start scoring amazing deals.
Speaker 3:
[35:22] Cut to Carrie and Charlotte at the stables, somewhere in Central Park, I guess. I don't know.
Speaker 2:
[35:28] I don't know. This is fascinating. I tried to find more information about this because I want to believe that this is a real stable, but when you see them run out at the end of the scene, it looks like a parking garage, just on 73rd or 74th Street or something. It doesn't seem like a stable that leads out to Central Park. I have to say, I am not a horse person. I rode a horse once when I was four or five years old, and according to my mother, I said, they smell, and I've never been on a horse again. I don't fuck with them. They can sense that. They don't fuck with me. We have an understanding.
Speaker 3:
[36:06] Carrie is pissed that she stepped in horse shit, and she's obviously spiraling about Natasha and Big and all of that.
Speaker 2:
[36:15] Yes, and this is where Charlotte explains that some horses don't like to be ridden. She explains, Taddy was like that when I first got him, but once I broke him in, he loved it. This is where Carrie is just so Carrie in this moment, where she's like, let me take what my friend just said and make it about myself. You know what I did? I broke Big in for other women. It's like Carrie, Big was married before, as we discovered in our last rewatch episode. This isn't a foreign concept to him.
Speaker 3:
[36:47] Charlotte then has a moment of PTSD and flees the stable.
Speaker 2:
[36:53] I don't know. But what do you think Charlotte told Carrie? Because Carrie's outfit in this scene is a red leather looking halter top, like corset, bustier, with jeans, with stilettos, which as we know Carrie will never wear normal shoes unless her Manolo Blahniks get stolen. But like, this is truly crazy that she's wearing strappy sandals to a stable.
Speaker 3:
[37:17] Well, how is she to know?
Speaker 2:
[37:19] That there would be shit everywhere. I also love how annoyed Carrie seems to be when the woman is like, you can't smoke in the stable.
Speaker 3:
[37:26] I would be annoyed too, given everything Carrie just went through.
Speaker 2:
[37:30] Yeah, and I'm sure the smell of manure is not helping things.
Speaker 3:
[37:34] Samantha is about to fuck Mr. Cocky.
Speaker 2:
[37:37] I love that Carrie notes that after a few, quote, get to know each other phone calls, does this sound like a Samantha behavior?
Speaker 3:
[37:46] To be fair, you used to kind of have to do that shit. It's not like you could just text someone all day.
Speaker 2:
[37:53] For sure. But as Carrie says, they have a few get to know you phone calls before Samantha took Mr. Cocky up on his offer for a friendly drink. The Samantha we know is down to fuck even without a drink, in my personal opinion. This feels like a vetting that a Miranda or a Charlotte might do.
Speaker 3:
[38:12] True. So Mr. Cocky is like, I just have to tell you something. I'm very well endowed. Samantha's obviously thrilled. And then he reveals his massive cock and she's terrified.
Speaker 2:
[38:27] Which we don't see.
Speaker 3:
[38:28] Unfortunately.
Speaker 2:
[38:29] Right. Because there was some kind of decorum, at least on cable television, in the late 90s.
Speaker 3:
[38:36] Was there, though? Because we saw Samantha's bush and we saw Richard's cock. We can't just see a funny, prosthetic giant cock once.
Speaker 2:
[38:47] No. Daddy MPK was saving that for Evan Handler and then just like that. So we immediately cut to a Samantha and Carrie walk and talk, also happening in the Flatiron district.
Speaker 3:
[38:59] And Samantha is venting about Mr. Too Big. So many great puns in this scene.
Speaker 4:
[39:07] You dated Mr. Big?
Speaker 2:
[39:08] I'm dating Mr. Too Big.
Speaker 3:
[39:11] You know what?
Speaker 1:
[39:11] You're unbelievable. You broke up with James because he was too small. This guy's too big. Who are you? Goldie Cox? Yeah.
Speaker 4:
[39:19] I'm looking for one that's just right.
Speaker 2:
[39:22] I mean, perfection, truly. There's also a great Samantha line before this, where she's talking about how in explaining how well endowed he was to Carrie, Samantha's like, I didn't even want to put my mouth near it. I feared I would get lockjaw.
Speaker 3:
[39:38] I also love when she's like, it was like a wall of flesh coming at me. Great visual.
Speaker 2:
[39:43] I love how Carrie's like, oh yeah, there's nothing scarier than that in a way that I'm like, you've never been with a guy whose dick is too big, Carrie. That would make you more interesting as a sex columnist, but as we'll come to know, there's no way.
Speaker 3:
[39:54] I don't know if we can speak for Carrie's past sexual partners. I'm sure she's had some fun times.
Speaker 2:
[40:00] You know what, you are correct. She has had some fun times. It's just that she won't talk about them explicitly, which seems a little odd for a sex and relationship columnist.
Speaker 3:
[40:10] Steve and Miranda are back at Miranda's house. They've just had dinner.
Speaker 2:
[40:14] Which, we learned that Miranda finally gets to pay now that they're no longer dating. Still not seeing the appeal of being friends with an ex. We're not having sex and I have to pay for dinner?
Speaker 3:
[40:26] And I have to give you back your FDNY t-shirt. Also, Steve is now on Chicago Fire and has been on that show for 10,000 years. So this was a bit of foreshadowing for his post-Sex and the City career.
Speaker 2:
[40:41] Sure, he just needed to leave New York and go to Chicago. This episode reminds us, and specifically this scene, of what an amazing flirt Steve is. By and just like that, we get the deucification of Steve. But we forget this man had some mighty game.
Speaker 3:
[41:00] He did and he's doing the, do friends kiss here, do friends kiss here, which honestly would make me barf personally, but to each their own.
Speaker 2:
[41:08] Oh, okay. It's funny. I was watching the scene and I'd be like, yeah, that would work on me. I mean, look, I guess back to our conversation of like, can straights be friends with each other after they break up, maybe don't go in the bedroom together.
Speaker 3:
[41:22] No, and of course they end up fucking.
Speaker 2:
[41:24] And we end the season with Steve and Miranda where Steve goes, are we just friends? And she goes, yeah, we're still just friends, friends who have sex, which we'll see in season three. Miranda seems very comfortable with the friends benefits situation where Steve is wanting to be, make it official between the two of them.
Speaker 3:
[41:43] Samantha is taking another stab at Mr. Too Big and his giant dick.
Speaker 2:
[41:48] The Carrie voiceover. After two advanced yoga classes and a hit of the best Hawaiian gold she could find, Samantha was ready to take another run at Mount Everest. There is not a bottle of lube in sight.
Speaker 3:
[42:01] Truly, you took a yoga class and you smoked some weed?
Speaker 2:
[42:05] There's not a preparatory dildo, even an oil-based lube or something.
Speaker 3:
[42:12] I love when he is attempting to put it in and Samantha thinks it's in, but I guess it's really just the tip or something.
Speaker 2:
[42:21] Sort of the opposite of how Brittany Spears describes having sex with Justin Timberlake for the first time. Instead of wondering if the penis is in, unfortunately, just the tip is in Samantha and she's like, this is too much. And so she, instead of having sex with him, is like, can we just be friends? Which doesn't make any sense. These two are not going to be friends.
Speaker 3:
[42:41] No, she needs to like stop trying to fuck him and just give him a mercy hand job, you know, presumably with two hands, given his situation.
Speaker 2:
[42:51] We get the voiceover and just like that, Samantha made her very first male friend. No, she didn't.
Speaker 3:
[42:56] Well, I think Samantha has a lot of acquaintances. And when we talk about straight men and straight women being friends, that is like normal to be part of a scene, to have people you regularly cross paths with. But that's not like the same as like having a solo dinner with someone or like talking on the phone with them, stuff like that.
Speaker 2:
[43:17] Well, also, it's just a cleaner line of dialogue to say. And just like that, Samantha made her very first male friend. But Samantha definitely has male friends. They're just gay.
Speaker 3:
[43:28] Yeah.
Speaker 2:
[43:28] Now we got Charlotte and the horse. She gets on the horse. She rides the horse. Her and the horse are friends again.
Speaker 3:
[43:34] The end. Good for her.
Speaker 2:
[43:36] We never see her ride a horse again. So this is where Big calls Carrie. I just have to shout out the direction of this scene, which is on the Mr. Big apartment set. Kudos to Daddy MPK because it is for a long time, this long singular push-in shot that starts from the camera's in Big's bedroom, pointing towards the living room, and it's slowly just pushing in on him. As I said at the beginning of this episode, yet another buttercream yellow look, but this casual big look is exquisite, Chelsea, right? He's in this polo, he's got the black slacks, he's got the leather slides. As I said in a previous scene, he's got that five CD tower stack behind him.
Speaker 3:
[44:22] Yeah, the apartment looks incredible in this scene. He's a man of taste.
Speaker 2:
[44:26] And he's pouring his heart out. And you think he's just talking to Carrie's machine, and then it cuts to Carrie and her apartment. They're listening to the message in a vintage slip. And of course, because it's Carrie, she has no chill and has to pick up the phone and admit that she was screening Big's call. Come on, girl, it was going so well for you. You had the upper hand.
Speaker 3:
[44:50] They have this emo conversation. She's like, I wish you the best.
Speaker 2:
[44:55] And he's like, do you mean it? And she's like, well, no, but I would like to actually mean it someday.
Speaker 3:
[45:00] And then for reasons unknown, she receives an invitation in the mail to Big and Natasha's engagement brunch at the Plaza Hotel.
Speaker 2:
[45:10] Now, we never see Natasha's side of these events, but I do wonder, do you think Natasha had feelings about this? Like, presumably it was not her idea to invite Carrie, the random woman that she met at a party at the Hamptons to their engagement party. This is obviously Big saying to Natasha, Well, he has to invite someone. Because Big has no friends and no family?
Speaker 3:
[45:36] As we learned in the first film, not a friend to be had.
Speaker 2:
[45:40] Right, during that sad New Year's Eve montage, he is maybe the saddest of all of the sad sacks, eating alone at a restaurant or a party or something. Our podcast is once again sponsored by Quince. I've been doing a little spring reset with my closet lately, focusing more on quality over quantity. Just building a wardrobe of pieces that are well made, versatile and easy to reach for every day. That's why I keep coming back to Quince. The fabrics feel elevated, the fits are thoughtful and the pricing actually makes sense. Things I'm adding to my wardrobe at the moment from Quince, the lightweight crepe slip skirt in Ruby Red, the Mongolian cashmere shrunken crew neck sweater in gray, everyday lightweight cotton ruffle quarter crew sock, as well as the 100% European linen shorts pajama set in taupe brown gingham. You know the deal with Quince. They work directly with safe ethical factories and cut out the middlemen. You're not paying for brand markup or fancy retail stores, just quality clothing. I have their clothes. I have purchased many items for baby Morty from sleep sacks to their organic gingham crib sheets set and many, many outfits for him. I use Quince in my daily life. Refresh your spring wardrobe with Quince. Go to quince.com/outfit for free shipping and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. Go to quince.com/outfit for free shipping and 365 day returns. quince.com/outfit. But going back to Natasha, obviously there's been a reappraisal of Natasha, who during the series is painted as this villain. Carrie Bradshaw is our hero, our heroine. We are, of course, on her side. But the Internet has reappraised the Natasha character as this vulnerable 25-year-old girl, who is being hated on by a 33, 34-year-old woman for the singular crime of marrying Carrie Bradshaw's ex-boyfriend. Before we move on to the next scene, I just want to say Sarah Jessica Parker's comedic acting in this episode is also so good. There's this moment where she doesn't even open the invitation. If you remember, it just says, we're engaged and we as the audience understand it's Big and Natasha's engagement. She just puts it to the side of her. She's sitting on her bed and she just uses her foot and her toes to slide the invitation off the bed.
Speaker 3:
[48:10] It's a great detail.
Speaker 2:
[48:12] And then we cut to the girls. In the second set that we sort of lose in the later seasons, but this was like their de facto bar set that they would go to.
Speaker 3:
[48:20] Right, which is kind of weird because isn't it the middle of the day?
Speaker 2:
[48:23] Carrie's ex-boyfriend's engagement party is currently happening mere blocks away. They need drinks. They need several rounds of Cosmopolitans, okay?
Speaker 3:
[48:33] I also love how they have those colored martini glasses that they stopped using in the later seasons where it's like basically just the primary colors.
Speaker 2:
[48:41] Yeah, it was the beginning of the beigeification of everything, Chell. I do like that Carrie acknowledges, because again, the girls are making her feel better by talking shit of like, how dare he invite you to his engagement party? And Carrie's like, no, no, no, this was my fault. I did have to do the, let's be friends speech, which I thought was a nice bit of self-awareness that we don't usually get from Carrie.
Speaker 3:
[49:03] So Carrie is attempting to process how all of this came to be. And Miranda has the answer.
Speaker 2:
[49:10] Why her?
Speaker 4:
[49:11] One word, Hubble.
Speaker 1:
[49:14] Hubble. Oh my God, Hubble. It is, it is so Hubble. Who's Hubble?
Speaker 4:
[49:22] Hubble.
Speaker 1:
[49:23] Robert Hubble Redford in The Way We Were.
Speaker 4:
[49:25] Oh, I love that movie.
Speaker 1:
[49:27] No, I love, love, love that movie.
Speaker 4:
[49:30] Never saw it.
Speaker 1:
[49:31] Oh my God. Oh my God.
Speaker 4:
[49:33] What are you, an alien? How could you not have seen The Way We Were?
Speaker 2:
[49:36] Check film.
Speaker 4:
[49:37] Okay, Robert Redford is madly in love with Barbara Streisand. Katie.
Speaker 2:
[49:42] Katie, oh, Katie, right?
Speaker 4:
[49:44] Yeah, but he can't be with her because she's too complicated and she has wild curly hair.
Speaker 1:
[49:50] Hello, c-c-curly.
Speaker 4:
[49:52] Yeah. So he leaves her and marries this simple girl with straight hair.
Speaker 1:
[49:57] Ladies, I am having an epiphany. The world is made up of two types of women, the simple girls and the Katie girls. I'm a Katie girl and where are our drinks?
Speaker 3:
[50:08] She's not wrong.
Speaker 2:
[50:10] You know, that writer's room must have gone crazy because I imagine that the dialogue in this scene is exactly how it went down in the writer's room. Whether it was Daddy MPK or Jenny Bix, someone was just like, you know what this dynamic is like? Like the way we were.
Speaker 3:
[50:28] Okay. But the unspoken thing is that the last scene in the way we were, which they are referencing, was shot at the Plaza Hotel or in front of the Plaza Hotel.
Speaker 2:
[50:38] Right. Clearly the production, once they realized, oh, the Carrie, Big, Natasha dynamic is very similar to the Barbra Streisand, Robert Redford dynamic in the way we were, obviously set Big's engagement party at the Plaza so that they could mimic the last scene from the way we were.
Speaker 3:
[50:58] Yeah. I actually wonder what came first. Maybe they wanted to shoot at the Plaza anyway. They already did.
Speaker 2:
[51:04] It is a very likely place for Big and Natasha to have their engagement party.
Speaker 3:
[51:08] But it's not like the characters are super similar. I mean, it's Robert Redford, Barbara Streisand are plain people from two different worlds, I suppose. The conflict is more about Barbara Streisand's leftist Marxist activism, which obviously not the case with Carrie.
Speaker 2:
[51:27] Right. But they both have curly hair.
Speaker 3:
[51:29] Yeah. It's also that classic Barbara Streisand movie trope about the Jewish woman falling in love with a wasp and all that that involves.
Speaker 2:
[51:38] Right.
Speaker 3:
[51:39] And the curly hair at the end of the way we were highly symbolic. And it is for Carrie too, because Natasha doesn't have wild curly hair.
Speaker 2:
[51:47] No, she's got stick straight hair. So Carrie, wouldn't you know it, Chelsea finds herself in front of the Plaza Hotel right as Big and Natasha are getting into Raoul's chauffeured car.
Speaker 3:
[52:00] And might I just say, good for Carrie, because of everything in her wardrobe, this Dior bias cut white slip dress is the one thing that Natasha would fuck with the most based on her style.
Speaker 2:
[52:15] Right. I see what you're saying.
Speaker 3:
[52:17] You know, like she's wearing DK's wedding dress practically to this bitch's engagement party.
Speaker 2:
[52:23] I know that people have done edits of Carrie surprising Big making it look like a horror film. No one has included this scene.
Speaker 3:
[52:32] That is the most extra thing to do.
Speaker 2:
[52:35] Truly.
Speaker 3:
[52:36] She's like, oh, I just happened to be in the neighborhood. It's like, really? Did you?
Speaker 2:
[52:40] This is the craziest. Well, I was going to say most out of pocket thing that Carrie does, probably sleeping with Big once he's married to Natasha is probably the most out of pocket thing she does.
Speaker 3:
[52:52] Also back to the dress. I had never seen the Dior fashion show where this dress came from, but after I watched this episode, I looked it up and I was shocked at how similar the model actually looks to Carrie. It is a white blonde woman, cuckoo curly hair. And it's also wild because it's basically like this model is followed by a procession of clones that all have these white bias cut slip dresses and this wild curly Carrie hair. It's interesting just because normally with Patricia Field's styling, she will take something and present it in such a different way than the designer originally intended or so differently than how it looked on the runway. But this is a rare example of the runway and Sex and the City lining up almost perfectly.
Speaker 2:
[53:41] That's really crazy. Do you think Patricia Field saw that collection and was just like, I got to do it. I got to pull this dress.
Speaker 3:
[53:47] Yes, it would be crazy not to.
Speaker 2:
[53:50] And the show was not big enough. Season two is where the show really gets popular. So it's not like John Galeano was probably watching Sex and the City and designed.
Speaker 3:
[53:59] No, no, I don't think that that is the case. It's just interesting that he envisioned this dress on someone that looks exactly like Carrie from the jump.
Speaker 2:
[54:08] So we have this cathartic moment between Carrie and Big, where Carrie can't help but ask, why wasn't it me? And, you know, Big's like, you know, what do you want me to say? And she goes, I just, I really needs you to say it. And Big goes, it just got so hard. And she's, and there's, there's a lot that is unsaid, but we understand perfectly, right? Natasha is just a simple girl. Yeah, just simpler. And this is when Carrie smooths a bit of Big's hair and goes, your girl is lovely, Hubble. And Big goes, I don't get it. And Carrie shoots back and you never did. Now, this is an incredibly satisfying moment as an audience member, her saying your girl is lovely, Hubble. But if I'm Big, I have no idea what she's talking about. And Carrie seems fucking crazy to me and kind of only reinforces my thesis of why I'm not with Carrie.
Speaker 3:
[55:05] I don't know. I think that even if he doesn't get the reference, he gets the vibes.
Speaker 2:
[55:11] Even if Big did understand the reference, I'm sure he's like, I'm glad I'm not marrying someone who makes weird shit movie references during very consequential life events. Because I say this as someone who often compares things in my life to movies. And here's what I've learned about that. People don't like that shit. People want you to interact with them on a human to human level.
Speaker 3:
[55:33] Also to get back into the hubble of it all, it is my memory and it has been a long time since I've watched this movie. But I believe that Barbara Streisand actually had and raised his child.
Speaker 2:
[55:46] Yes.
Speaker 3:
[55:47] He never had a relationship with, which makes that scene even darker in a lot of ways than whatever this is. But anyway, I love the reference. I love the episodes of Sex and the City that intersect with movies. Of course, we also get the breakfast at Tiffany's stuff with Mr. Big.
Speaker 2:
[56:05] We do.
Speaker 3:
[56:06] Do you not remember the part where they slow dance to Moon River?
Speaker 2:
[56:10] Oh, right, right, right. Sorry, my mistake.
Speaker 3:
[56:12] Do they slow dance?
Speaker 2:
[56:14] Yeah. Yeah, they do. Sorry, my mind was going to Charlotte getting proposed to by Trey in front of Tiffany.
Speaker 3:
[56:20] Well, we had that. But also, I think the Carrie Bradshaw eye mask trope is also an ongoing Holly Golightly reference.
Speaker 2:
[56:29] And I feel like as we brought up in previous episodes, Carrie moonlighting as a sex worker or a sugar baby would explain her wardrobe.
Speaker 3:
[56:39] Totally.
Speaker 2:
[56:40] So the episode ends with this Carrie voiceover. Then I had a thought, maybe I didn't break Big. Maybe the problem was he couldn't break me. Maybe some women aren't meant to be tamed. Maybe they need to run free until they find someone just as wild to run with.
Speaker 3:
[56:56] So mentally, she's back at the stables.
Speaker 2:
[56:59] I guess so. I mean, she needs some way to end this article this week, Chelsea.
Speaker 3:
[57:04] But this is one of the all-time biggest Carrie Bradshaw inspirational quotes. If you Google this quote, a thousand images come up of this quote, overlaid on pictures of horses and pictures of beaches and all sorts of shit.
Speaker 2:
[57:21] I'm sure that the Etsy stores go wild, that this is written in a fake typewriter that you could have framed on your wall. For sure.
Speaker 3:
[57:29] This is also very much a thesis of Glennon Doyle's memoir Untamed, but that's a story for another time.
Speaker 2:
[57:36] But doesn't, I mean, in another way, isn't she asking, you just basically need to find someone that matches your freak? Because I feel like Big matches her freak.
Speaker 3:
[57:47] I don't think he does. I think she's too freaky for him, and there's always been that tension in their relationship. Another big example of that would be the episode where they go to the uptown party.
Speaker 2:
[58:00] Oh, yeah, that is true.
Speaker 3:
[58:03] He got into it, and over the years, Carrie became more sedate, family-friendly, less self-destructive, all of that. More marriage material.
Speaker 2:
[58:15] Well, I'm going to save my thoughts on this for my hottest take, so why don't we give this Manolo rating?
Speaker 3:
[58:22] What do you think?
Speaker 2:
[58:23] Nine?
Speaker 3:
[58:24] I'm giving it nine, too. I'm only docking it because of the Charlotte plotline, not really fitting with the theme fully, although I see how the horses factor into Carrie's profound quote.
Speaker 2:
[58:37] Daddy MBK was able to bring it together in the end, so.
Speaker 3:
[58:41] Yeah, it's a wonderful episode of Sex and the City.
Speaker 2:
[58:44] Okay, let's get into the exit survey. Who is the MVP?
Speaker 3:
[58:47] Carrie.
Speaker 2:
[58:48] Yeah.
Speaker 3:
[58:48] No question. Also, though, a very good episode for Mr. Big. We never ever give it to Mr. Big because Carrie always eclipses him in the episodes that he's also good in, but still, honorable mention.
Speaker 2:
[59:01] I think so. I mean, this is maybe the most well-rounded we see Big. There are different emotional levels for Chris Noth to play in this episode, right? He's the attractive Big that we know. He's out of sorts. He gets outplayed by Carrie in the end with the Hubble line. We see him feeling guilt and remorse, which maybe we never see again until season six, at the very end when he's trying to win Carrie back. You know what? Fuck it. The MVP is Mr. Big. But paradoxically, I am also voting Mr. Big off the island, the island of Manhattan, that is. But what about you? Do you have a different person?
Speaker 3:
[59:47] No, I'm voting him off also.
Speaker 2:
[59:49] Yeah. This is going to be the rare time where the MVP and the person we're voting off the island of Manhattan are the same person.
Speaker 3:
[59:55] Although Miranda was really mean to Steve, and that was upsetting.
Speaker 2:
[59:59] Yeah, but she fucked him, so it's all good now.
Speaker 3:
[60:01] She course corrected, but still. Best line.
Speaker 2:
[60:04] What are you, Goldie Cots?
Speaker 3:
[60:05] Obviously. Best dressed, Carrie 100%.
Speaker 2:
[60:08] But do we want to pick a particular outfit? Because I would say for me, it's Carrie and the Whore Stables, just because like, this is the beginning of like fantastical Carrie, because like, why the fuck is she wearing this to the stables? But I love it.
Speaker 3:
[60:24] Yeah, but at the same time, it's not like it is a challenging outfit in the way that many Carrie outfits are and deliberately so, this is another archetypal 90s hot girl outfit, which is some sort of little slinky top with the jeans and the heels and the little Fendi baguette. And she has her gold jewelry and she looks really fab.
Speaker 2:
[60:47] Okay. Who are you?
Speaker 3:
[60:49] Um, who am I? I mean, Carrie again.
Speaker 2:
[60:53] I'm going to cheat again because I do feel like I'm several characters. Like, I feel like I'm Miranda because I probably would flee if I ran into an ex. Carrie because I have definitely crashed out over an emotionally unavailable man. And Samantha because like her, I've never seen the way we were.
Speaker 3:
[61:09] Oh my God. Really? That's crazy. I mean, it's not that crazy actually, but I would recommend watching it. It's been a long time for me.
Speaker 2:
[61:18] Well, maybe we should do a watch together.
Speaker 3:
[61:21] But how many of the old Barbara Streisand movies have you actually seen? Like you've seen Funny Girl, right?
Speaker 2:
[61:27] Yes.
Speaker 3:
[61:28] Well, at least there's that.
Speaker 2:
[61:29] What is your biggest trigger?
Speaker 3:
[61:31] I don't know if I have one in this episode. Maybe Charlotte's horse drama.
Speaker 2:
[61:35] Okay, I have two and they're highly specific, which has not happened in a while, but sorry to yet again invoke Carrie in the horse stable scene. But the fact that she's wearing peep toe heels, I find very triggering. Just being around all that manure, there's something upsetting to me about that.
Speaker 3:
[61:54] Okay, but this is the joke of the scene.
Speaker 2:
[61:56] I know, I know, but it can be triggering to me, Chelsea, for her little toesies to be that close to horseshit. Anyway, that and then also beyond, I'm like Samantha, because I've never seen the way we were, Samantha's face when Charlotte, Carrie and Miranda start singing the song from the way we were, I felt so deeply because people spontaneously singing in public is deeply triggering to me.
Speaker 3:
[62:23] See, I loved that because it's the only time Sarah Jessica Parker sings on this show, isn't it?
Speaker 2:
[62:30] I think it's the only time that we sincerely see her singing.
Speaker 3:
[62:34] Obviously, I am woman, hear me roar is not factored into this equation. I guess we hear her sing Joy to the World in that Uptown Party episode also.
Speaker 2:
[62:45] Well, that was my point is like, I think this is the only time that she's sincerely singing, not drunk, not jokingly.
Speaker 3:
[62:52] Right, like this singing reminds me like, right, like this woman came up on Broadway.
Speaker 2:
[62:59] Indeed. All right, what is your hottest take?
Speaker 3:
[63:02] I already touched on this, but my hottest take is that the reality of the way that Carrie showed up to the engagement party in a white dress is very like overly dramatic in a way that doesn't necessarily come across from the way that this episode was filmed. But if this actually happened, this would be like crazy person behavior.
Speaker 2:
[63:21] Oh, God. Yeah. Like there should be like strings, screeching, jumpscare kind of musical reaction when Big sees her.
Speaker 3:
[63:32] Fuck when Big sees her, when Natasha sees her like peering out of her car window and she's just standing there.
Speaker 2:
[63:39] Yeah. I wonder if Natasha ever asked Big like, is this woman going to come to my work and try to stab me or something? Yeah.
Speaker 3:
[63:46] Like should I be concerned that your ex showed up to an engagement party wearing a white dress?
Speaker 2:
[63:51] Also, I've come to learn that she writes a weekly column in a very popular New York paper and has seemingly written about me and us four separate times now. Like should I be concerned?
Speaker 3:
[64:04] Also, it's interesting that Natasha is wearing black. They didn't want to have her also wearing white and have it be like too heavy handed.
Speaker 2:
[64:13] Yeah. I guess I never noticed that. Interesting.
Speaker 3:
[64:15] But even that, right? Carrie in white, her in black does signal this sort of good, evil thing that's really unfair to Natasha, who of course did nothing wrong.
Speaker 2:
[64:27] My hottest take is that the series should have ended here. Do I really mean that? No. But this episode is an interesting butterfly effect because season two cements the popularity of Sex and the City, right? It becomes this global phenomenon from this point forward. And that popularity imbues Darren Starr to leave the show to pursue other shows and other pursuits, which then leaves Daddy MPK as the show runner. And as we know, Candace Bushnell and Darren Starr, who developed the show, obviously Candace Bushnell's is the source material for Carrie Bradshaw. They had always envisioned Carrie to remain single at the end of the series. It was Michael Patrick King's vision to have her and Big be end game. And basically, Darren Starr leaves at the end of season three. So starting with season four is when Michael Patrick King is the show runner of the show. And everything from that point forward is just engineering Carrie and Big to get together. And I'm sorry, I hate to invoke 50 Shades of Grey on our beloved podcast, Chelsea. I know you've asked me to stop doing this. But at the end of the first film, if you remember the end of the first book, Anastasia leaves Christian Grey. And that is a very powerful message.
Speaker 3:
[65:49] So you think that Sex and the City should be more like 50 Shades of Grey? That's what I'm hearing.
Speaker 2:
[65:54] No, no, because...
Speaker 3:
[65:56] You think that Michael Patrick King should be taking notes from EL. James about writing and story structure?
Speaker 2:
[66:03] No, no, no. I'm actually saying Sex and the City and 50 Shades of Grey are more similar than we think because in the second movie and book, Christian and Anastasia get back together, quite like Carrie and Big get back together, which defeats the purpose of the strength of these moments, the end of the first 50 Shades film and the end of Season 2, that these women leave these men who had this emotional hold on them and in their last conversation devastate them.
Speaker 3:
[66:30] Look, I agree that this would have been a really powerful ending for the show. Absolutely. That is certainly more blind with the tone of the pilot episode of Sex and the City, which had a gritty noir feel to it.
Speaker 2:
[66:45] Of course. But if the show ended here, we wouldn't get the LA episodes, we wouldn't get funky tasting spunk, we wouldn't get Patricia Field at the height of her powers being able to pull insane looks like a Versace Couture look in Season 6. For sure.
Speaker 3:
[67:02] But they could have chosen to end the show in this way. They could have made that choice.
Speaker 2:
[67:07] Carrie being single, yes.
Speaker 3:
[67:09] Carrie being single, but also it just not working out with Big.
Speaker 2:
[67:12] Yes. And if you've ever watched On Your Sex and the City DVDs for Season 6, they have the quote, alternative endings. I don't know if you remember this, but at the end...
Speaker 3:
[67:23] I don't think I've seen that.
Speaker 2:
[67:25] Okay. At the end of Season 6, there was all of this talk where Michael Patrick King was like, we actually have three different endings. But all it was, was that diner scene at the end. There were two additional scenes where Carrie was like, yeah, Big came to Paris and told me that he didn't love me or something like that.
Speaker 3:
[67:47] Okay, we need to find those immediately.
Speaker 2:
[67:49] If I'm able to find them, we will drop it in at the end of this episode. And just like that, another Sex and the City rewatch done. It is becoming harder and harder to pick episodes. We are more than halfway through our rewatch. I'm not sure where we should go. Season 3, Season 4. We have shockingly done most of Season 5.
Speaker 3:
[68:12] Yeah, why? Although, did we ever do the Atlantic City episode?
Speaker 2:
[68:16] We actually haven't. There are three episodes we haven't done from Season 5, and it is actually Episode 2, 3 and 4. So Unoriginal Sin, Luck Be an Old Lady, which is the Atlantic City episode, and Cover Girl.
Speaker 3:
[68:33] So should we say, let's do Luck Be an Old Lady.
Speaker 2:
[68:36] All right, guys, we will be back next week, and evidently we'll be back next month with a rewatch episode of Luck Be an Old Lady. We'll see you then.
Speaker 4:
[68:45] Bye.
Speaker 2:
[68:45] Bye.
Speaker 1:
[68:46] Big told us that he loved you. Exactly, the boy who cried love.
Speaker 3:
[68:51] He went all the way to Paris to choke.
Speaker 4:
[68:53] I'm going all the way to Napa to choke him.
Speaker 1:
[68:55] Oh, let it go, ladies, it's Big. It's the big ending we've all been waiting for.
Speaker 4:
[69:01] Well, you are handling all of this very well.
Speaker 1:
[69:05] Actually, I'm jet-lagged. I'll be feeling it in about six hours. Man, fuck them, fuck all of them.
Speaker 4:
[69:10] That's coming from a woman who has.