transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:22] Oh my God, there's blood here.

Speaker 2:
[00:24] It's a corpse.

Speaker 3:
[00:25] Somebody is dead here.

Speaker 2:
[00:30] Hey, true crime besties, welcome back to an all new episode of Serialously. Hello, hello, hello, and welcome back to an all new episode of SERIALously, with me, your host, Annie Elise. I hope you are having a great start to your week, whether, you know, I don't know, maybe you're commuting in, maybe you're working out, maybe you're at home, maybe you're lounging, maybe you're at work, and you're secretly listening because you don't want your boss to come in and catch you. And you know what? I'm here for it, okay? I used to do that all the time when I worked my nine to five. I would secretly, which looks so bad, but whatever, we're in the circle of trust. I would listen and watch shows, and I would just kind of like, I'd get my work done still. I'd have my computer, but I'd have my iPad or my phone propped up. I'd be listening or watching and whatever, you know? So if you're listening right now with your work buddy or watching at work, I'm here for it. I'm with you, as long as you're still being productive, okay? So let's talk about today's case, okay? It's a complex one. They all are in their own way, I understand. But this one is very interesting because you start to think, you know, where it's going, and then it takes a hard left. And for me, at least, as I was researching this, there were a lot of things that weren't adding up until they all added up, if that makes sense. So it's definitely a wild one. You're going to be with me for a minute. But you know, that's what we do on Mondays. We deep dive into these crazy complex cases and talk about all of it. And then as a reminder, if you are new to the podcast and just listening for, you know, the first, second or third time, Mondays, we do our deep dives where we go into one singular case and just research every single thing we possibly can about it. And then on Thursdays, we do headline highlights where we talk about everything that's happening this week in true crime, breaking news, case updates, trial updates, different things like that. And if you feel like that's not enough and you still need another fix, we also do a deep dive on Tuesday on my second podcast 10 to Life, 10 to Life, also true crime. But that's more deep dive, notorious cases, sometimes cold cases. It's not as conversational as we are over here. It's more, I want to say like documentary presenting, but like, it's just more like in-depth storytelling. If that makes sense. So anyway, we are gonna jump into today's case now, and I'm gonna shut up and stop talking. So I want you to just picture this for a moment, okay? Because this is really what sets the tone for this entire case and what makes it so, I don't know if obscure is the word, but just like fascinating. We'll go with that. So picture this. Two houses catch on fire on the exact same morning in a quiet suburb in New Jersey. Now, at the first house, a family escapes safely. Great. But at the second house, firefighters arrive to find something far more disturbing, because a man is lying in the front yard with a hood over his head, and unfortunately, this man is already dead. Then, inside the house, his wife and his two children are also deceased. And the strangest part in all of this, the two houses belonged to two brothers. So, let's get into it. During the early morning hours of November 20th, 2018, a phone call came into Ocean Township First Responders in New Jersey. The call was reporting smoke inside a residence at 27 Tilton Drive.

Speaker 4:
[04:27] What's on fire? I have no idea. Our alarm just went off, and my whole house is filled with smoke.

Speaker 2:
[04:32] Everyone's outside.

Speaker 1:
[04:33] Is everyone out of the house?

Speaker 5:
[04:35] We'll get everybody over here.

Speaker 1:
[04:36] Okay.

Speaker 4:
[04:37] I have a turtle inside too.

Speaker 5:
[04:39] Don't go back in for it, unfortunately. Just we're going to get everybody over there, okay?

Speaker 2:
[04:43] The residents of the home were Paul Caniero, his wife Susan, and their two adult daughters, Marissa and Caitlin. Now, I think we can all agree, any kind of house fire is absolutely terrifying. I think for a lot of people, for me personally, my worst fear is being burned alive. For a lot of people, I think it's their worst fears, right? Understandably so. So much can go wrong in such a short amount of time. The heat and the flames, it's unbearable to think about and it's just major fear unlocked. However, luckily in this situation, by the time that help arrived, all four members of the family were already outside in one of their cars, completely unharmed and just waiting for first responders. The houses next door were evacuated as a precaution, but the good news was that the fire was put out pretty quickly, and nobody was injured. I mean, not the Canero family, not their neighbors, not even the firefighters. It seemed like a very cut and dry thing, like house fire erupts, they get there in time, everybody gets out safely, they put the fire out, nobody's hurt, great. They had all just gotten incredibly lucky and caught the fire in time. And this was around 5 a.m. However, later that same day, at around 12 33 p.m., there was another phone call coming in about a fire. This time, the address was 15 Willowbrook Road, which was about 20 minutes away from the first fire. Now, it's obviously not unheard of that multiple fires can happen on the same day within a 15-mile radius. Sure, it happens. This was also a few days before Thanksgiving, so it was a time where people are cooking a lot, sometimes they're burning things, occasionally starting fires in the kitchen by accident, things like that. However, there were three really strange things about this second 911 call. The first was that the call came from a concerned neighbor who saw this house on fire, but they didn't see anybody from inside the house or the family running outside to safety. The second strange thing was that this wasn't what you would normally expect from a call about a house fire.

Speaker 5:
[06:44] I opened the door, and there is a, uh, and there is a, uh, smoke coming out, and there's a person laying down.

Speaker 1:
[06:55] Where are they laying down? On the property. Can you get over to them?

Speaker 6:
[06:58] In front of the house.

Speaker 1:
[06:59] All right, get over to them.

Speaker 6:
[07:00] Yes, I'm coming over.

Speaker 1:
[07:01] Okay.

Speaker 6:
[07:02] Oh, my God, there's blood here.

Speaker 1:
[07:05] It's, it's a cork.

Speaker 6:
[07:07] It's what? It's dead. What's dead? There's, somebody is dead here.

Speaker 3:
[07:15] Okay, sir, you need to get to a safe area. Hold on a second.

Speaker 2:
[07:19] Now, the reason you wouldn't normally expect this is because when the neighbors looked closer, they realized something completely horrifying. One of the members of the family was actually lying on the front lawn, covered in blood. It was jarring. Now, before we get into that, the third strange thing about this second 911 call was the family's last name. They were also the Caneros. Living at this house was 50-year-old Keith, his 45-year-old wife, Jennifer, and their two younger children, 11-year-old Jesse and 8-year-old Sophia. Now, Keith and Paul, Paul, who just escaped with his family from his house being on fire just a few hours earlier, the two of them were brothers. So now, something incredibly strange was happening here, right? I mean, what are the odds that both brothers' homes would catch fire on the exact same day, within a 15-mile radius, within just hours of each other? I mean, how likely is that to happen? And first responders were, of course, already unsure of what they were walking into after hearing that very cryptic 911 call mentioning a corpse on the front lawn. But when they arrived and began taking into the scene, it was far worse and they were even more shocked because the person lying in the front yard was Keith, the husband, the father. And unfortunately, that 911 caller had been right. He was already dead. Now, you might be thinking, OK, that's not that big of a stretch. I mean, if the house was on fire, maybe he died because of the fire, smoke inhalation, flames, whatever it could have been. Maybe it was the smoke inhalation that caused him to collapse outside while trying to escape or trying to call for help. The problem with that, though, is that his body told a very different story. First of all, it didn't look like Keith had fallen naturally. It looked like his body had been placed there. And even weirder, he had a hood over his head and he was lying face down. He had both of his hands, too, crossed over his chest in like this X formation. His legs were crossed, too. So the way that his body was positioned was very strange. But then as investigators got even closer, they also realized that the condition of Keith's body was far worse than they had anticipated because Keith had been shot five times. This was not death caused by fire. This was something else, something more calculated, more sinister. He had been shot once in the lower back and four times in the head. And as gruesome as that discovery was, the reality was that when the first responders went inside that home to search for the rest of the family, the truth of what had happened to the Canero family was even more horrifying. Keith's wife, Jennifer, was found on the stairs that led from the basement to the first floor of the home. And she was dead too. Again, her injuries made it clear that this was not the result of a house fire because Jennifer had a single gunshot wound to her head plus multiple stab wounds to her torso. This was major. This was not, again, from the fire. So the firefighters then continued searching the home for other family members. And that's when they found Jennifer and Keith's two children, little Jesse and Sophia. And tragically, they were also deceased. 11-year-old Jesse was found on the kitchen floor. He had been stabbed multiple times. Sophia was found near the stairs leading up to the second floor. She, too, had been stabbed multiple times. And Sophia was only 8 years old. Now as devastating as this discovery was, there was nothing that could be done. Because every member of the Canero family who lived in that home was now already gone. And their deaths had been incredibly violent, too. I mean, something here was very, very wrong. Who killed this family? And why was their house then set on fire? And was the fire meant to cover up the murders? Was it meant to destroy evidence? Why was his brother's house on fire earlier that morning, but everybody there survived? Like, what is going on here? But the truth was that whatever answer they would discover, it wouldn't matter. This was a case that would haunt the entire community and the investigators assigned to it. They were working tirelessly to uncover what had happened inside that home that day. Now, of course, the investigator's top priority was trying to figure out who killed this family, right? Absolutely. But another urgent question was also at play here. I mean, how did both Keith and Paul's homes catch on fire on the exact same day? Had someone targeted them? And if so, why? It certainly didn't feel like a coincidence. And again, going back to the main question, why did Paul and his family survive and were completely unharmed? Well, Keith's family was brutally murdered inside that home. And this wasn't just the difference in survival where one family got out of the flames in time while the other didn't. It was also the difference in the fires themselves. Because the two fires unfolded in completely opposite ways. Remember, Paul's house was saved, while Keith's house, on the other hand, I mean, by the time it was over, there was barely anything left. Just a chimney and scattered bricks. The home had completely burned down to the ground. And these fires and the murders, it just all felt deeply personal. So if the investigators were going to try and figure out what happened, they knew that they needed to start looking closely at everyone connected to the family. And as it turns out, Keith and Paul actually had another brother. And as soon as the news broke about the fires and the murder of Keith and his entire family, that brother along with his wife and his two young kids, they fled the state. Which look, maybe they were terrified that they might be next. I mean, honestly, that's a pretty reasonable assumption, right? It had already happened with two brothers, why not the third? What if somebody was targeting all of them? I will say, luckily, nothing happened to that brother or his family, thank God. I mean, there were no fires, no break-ins, no murders, but it still raised a very interesting question. What made that third brother different from Paul and Keith? And investigators quickly noticed one major difference between them. Keith and Paul were both businessmen, and they were also very successful ones. I mean, when the local news covered the second fire, just seeing photos of Keith's home as the firefighters tried to battle the flames, it told you everything you needed to know. It was this massive house, the kind of house that made it pretty clear that the family was doing extremely well financially, and it just seemed as though they were kind of living the American dream. And Keith and Paul weren't just businessmen running their own separate business ventures. They actually were business partners, and they had been for years. Together, the brothers operated two different companies. One was a pest control company, and the other was an IT company. And both of these companies were doing extremely well. Now, neither of these companies were exactly new either. One source said that by 2018, they had already been running the IT company for decades. The pest control company was a little bit newer, but it still dated back to 2011, meaning that it had been operating for about seven years by this point. So all of that to say, both brothers were very successful. And it wasn't exactly a secret either. They both lived in beautiful homes. They had these beautiful families. There was financial security. So this then raised another possibility in all of this. Could the fires have been financially motivated? But that also raised even more questions, especially when considering just how different the two fires were, and also when it came to the level of brutality involved with Keith and his family, and not that level of brutality with Paul and his family. Now, one theory that the investigators considered early on was that someone had broken into Keith's home, murdered the family, taken whatever valuables they wanted, and then set the house on fire. However, the investigators quickly noticed signs on Keith's body that didn't really line up with that theory, because when the investigators arrived, on Keith was his wallet. It was halfway out of his pocket, and inside his wallet there were four credit cards, over $200 in cash, a metro card, and two gift cards. Now obviously, that's not like thousands and thousands of dollars or life-changing money or anything like that. However, if somebody had gone into Keith's home, specifically looking to take valuables, to steal, to rob them, you would think they would at least check his wallet or take the wallet altogether. Credit card fraud, you could use the gift cards, you definitely could use the cash, like something here wasn't adding up. And also remember, this wallet was literally hanging out of his pocket. It's not like it was hidden. It was in clear line of vision. So I mean, it would have been incredibly difficult to miss. So that detail didn't really line up with the idea that this was a robbery gone wrong or some sort of random third party targeting the family because they knew they had money. So now the investigation was back to square one. Figuring out who's responsible for this, who had a motive to do this, and what's going on here. The day after the fires, on November 21st, 2018, the investigators made a public announcement about the deaths of Keith and his family.

Speaker 1:
[16:35] The Monmouth County Prosecutor's Office, the Colts Neck Police Department are investigating the Colts Neck matter as a multiple homicide and arson case. Yesterday, we specified just arson. The case has transcended into a multiple homicide investigation in addition to the arson matter. And to date, our investigation has revealed that unfortunately, sadly, each of these individuals were the victims of homicidal violence at some point prior to when the fire was set at 15 Willowbrook. As I mentioned yesterday, three of the four remains were severely burned. And I told you that's complicated matters, but that is not going to prevent us from doing our jobs because those two crime scenes have and will continue to remain secured until the completion of our investigation.

Speaker 2:
[17:21] Now, at this point, it was clear that the family had been murdered. And again, brutally murdered at that. But one question still lingered. Why? And how exactly were these investigators going to approach solving a quadruple homicide like this? Two children, multiple stab wounds, gunshot wounds, I mean, multiple weapons. What is happening? So the investigators decided to start by taking a closer look at the first fire that had happened that day. The one at his brother, Paul's house. Their thinking was that if they started at the beginning and then worked through the events of the morning, step by step, they might uncover some clues that would help explain what had happened later at Keith's house. And one thing that the first responders noticed right away when they arrived at Paul's home that morning was that there was a red gas can lying in the driveway, which of course, I mean, this immediately stood out because if someone had used gasoline to start the fire, that gas can could potentially contain DNA evidence, something that the investigators may be able to use to trace back to whoever started the fire. And it wasn't just a gas can that stood out. There were other things too. For example, a charred rubber glove was also found on the ground nearby. And what made both of these items even more interesting was where they were located exactly, because they were right there on the ground next to a white Porsche that was parked in the driveway. But here's what really caught the firefighter's attention. On the hood of the Porsche, they noticed these brown stain-like patterns. And almost immediately, they recognized them as something called spot pour patterns. Now these patterns are actually pretty distinctive, and seasoned firefighters can often recognize them like right away. Basically, spot pour patterns are irregular burn marks that can indicate that somebody intentionally used in ignitable liquid, something like gasoline or some sort of other agent, to start a fire. So think about it this way. If a fire starts in one room, and then it spreads naturally to another room, you don't usually see patterns like that, right? Because it's spreading on its own through materials, it's catching wind or air on certain things, and it's just traveling. It just moves and consumes things in its path. But with poor patterns, the fire does not spread naturally. Instead, it often shows signs that a flammable liquid was poured in a specific place before the fire was started. And while it doesn't always mean arson, it very often does point in that direction. So when you start to consider that there was a gas can sitting right next to the Porsche, the patterns on the Porsche, the charred glove, I mean, those patterns started to make even more sense. It all started coming together. I mean, the truth was, investigators probably already suspected that the fire at Paul's house wasn't accidental. But finding physical evidence like that, it really confirmed those suspicions. So both of those items, the gas can and the burnt rubber glove, were collected and they were taken into evidence. Investigators then continued searching not only the inside of Paul and Susan's home, but also all around the outside of the property. And eventually, their search led them to the backyard, where there they found a shed. Now it wasn't anything huge, it was just a typical backyard shed where somebody might keep tools or storage, maybe a small lawnmower, things like that. But as investigators were about to learn, that small, small shed, it was hiding some very big secrets. Inside the shed near the ground were three red gas cans, and they were all lined up in a straight row across one of the walls, just boop, boop, boop, one can, a second can, a big empty space, and then a third can, almost as though a can had been plucked out of its lineup. So detectives obviously couldn't help but notice that the gas can that they had found in the driveway looked almost identical to the three gas cans that they were now finding in the shed. Again, not to mention that open space, almost as if there was something missing, right? There were also packs of rubber gloves inside this shed. Just like that charred rubber glove that had been found on the driveway next to the gas can. And I just want to say, the people who investigate fire scenes are highly trained professionals. They can identify different burn patterns, they can study the way a structure was damaged, they can look at a completely charred house and still somehow determine exactly where the fire started, and even more than that, how it started. And this was going to be useful. And honestly, even an amateur might have been suspicious about what the investigators were finding here, because I mean at this point it was starting to look like this was either an inside job, or that somebody really wanted it to look like someone in Paul's family was responsible for the brutal murder of his brother Keith and his family. So then they start moving the investigation more inside the house. And inside the house, investigators also found two butane lighters. One was sitting on a small table just right there exposed in the living room, and then the other one was found on the living room floor. Now when the investigators were searching both inside and outside the house, they also noticed something else. Paul had security cameras all over the property, which honestly sounded perfect because if those cameras were recording, then the investigators could simply ask Paul to view the footage, or if necessary, they could obtain a warrant to get that footage, and they could potentially see exactly who had started the fire. So investigators went to Paul, and they asked him straight up if they could check the security camera footage. And he seemed completely fine with it. He's like, yeah, absolutely no problem. He even gave them written consent, and just kind of acted very nonchalant about the whole thing. However, he also told them, you know, to be honest, I can't remember if I turned off the recording system from the day before. I might have, because according to Paul, their Wi-Fi had been acting up that day. So he felt like the security system was slowing everything down, which I have to say, by saying that to the investigators, it kind of sounds like he did remember turning it off, which I've been there too. If my Wi-Fi is acting up at home, I turn off any devices I'm not using to try to like boost the signal higher on the device I am using. I don't know if that's a real thing and if it actually works, but him saying, you know, Wi-Fi had been acting up, so we wanted to turn off the security system because it was soaking up a lot of the, you know, whatever you would call it, inner Wi-Fi rates, whatever the hell, I don't know what you would call it. I mean, it makes sense, but it also is a little bit strange to give this full explanation about Wi-Fi issues and why you may have turned something off if you truly don't remember turning it off at all. I don't know, just my thoughts. And as it turns out, the last recording on the security camera was captured on November 20th at 1:29 a.m. Now keep that time in mind, because the first 911 call that came in reporting the fire at Paul's home, that call came in at around 5:01 a.m., so less than four hours after the security system shut down. And in that final recording, Paul can be seen walking into the garage, turning on the lights, and then walking toward the DVR system that controlled the security cameras, and then that's where the clip ends. So it became pretty clear that Paul had turned these cameras off. But the question, of course, was why? Was he really dealing with Wi-Fi issues at, you know, almost 2 a.m.? And if he had just turned the whole system off, which we now know he did, why wouldn't he remember doing that? It had only been a few hours earlier that he would have done that, not days or weeks. You would certainly remember doing something like that in the middle of the night, would you not? So this is all happening in the background. As the investigators are still continuing to look into the fire patterns. And eventually investigators identified at least two separate places where the fire had been started. And both of these ignition points were located outside of the house at different corners of the structure near the ground level. More importantly, though, investigators determined how the fires had started. And it wasn't from a lit candle or faulty wiring or anything like that. And both of these fires were ruled, quote, incendiary in nature. And an incendiary fire means that it was set intentionally regardless of the motive. So adding to that conclusion, the fire department also detected combustible gases at the scene, which further confirmed that this fire had been deliberately started. But the big question still remained. Was it Paul? And if it was, why would he set his own house on fire? Or was it somebody else trying to make it look like Paul had done it? Investigators also brought in Paul's wife Susan for questioning. She explained that Paul was the one who handled the security cameras and that as far as she knew, they had been on and they had been functioning normally. She said that she had no idea that Paul had gone into the garage in the middle of the night to turn them off. So with that, on November 25th, five days after the fires, Paul was arrested and charged with arson for setting the fire in his own home. And what was really interesting about Paul's arrest was the reaction from the public because it almost seemed like there were two very different camps of people. First, there were the people who felt bad for him and believed that he was not guilty through and through. After his arrest, attorneys representing Paul and his family also had released a statement saying that Susan and their two adult daughters, quote, fully supported him and would be willing to testify at his upcoming hearing. A GoFundMe account was also even set up for his daughters, and it quickly raised thousands of dollars. So there was this one side of things where people truly believed that he was innocent and that this was not his own doing. But then, of course, there was the more conspiracy side of things, the people who don't like to see the good in people. And some people began wondering, you know, if Paul was capable of setting his own house on fire, while his wife and his daughters were inside, could he also be capable of something even worse? Could he be twisted enough to be responsible for the deaths of his own brother, sister-in-law, and young niece and nephew? It was such a horrifying possibility that it almost felt impossible to even consider. But as we have seen time and time again in the world of true crime, nothing is truly ever impossible, right? It also didn't help that when Paul was arrested and the reporters asked investigators whether he was a suspect in the murder of Keith's family's deaths, authorities were pretty much silent, not giving anything away, which obviously that's because they didn't want to affect the investigation but also its silence, I think speaks volumes sometimes. So by reporters being like, is he involved? Is he involved? Could he have something to do with it? And then just like putting the zipper on their mouth and not saying anything. Obviously, it's going to leave a lot open for interpretation. But the truth was the only thing that they would confirm was that Paul had been arrested for aggravated arson in connection with the fire at his own home. And truthfully, there was a good reason for all of the silence. Because behind the scenes, the detectives were quietly building a case. And honestly, for how slowly things sometimes move in true crime investigations, this case was actually progressing pretty quickly. Because just four days after Paul's initial arrest for the arson, on November 29th, 2018, a major bombshell dropped.

Speaker 1:
[28:56] But we called this press conference for the purpose of announcing that additional charges have been filed against Paul Canero this morning. And he's been served with those charges while he's detained at the Monmouth County Correctional Institute here in Freehold. We have charged defendant Canero with four counts of murder, one count of aggravated arson, one count of possession of a firearm for an unlawful purpose. And one count of possession of a knife for an unlawful purpose. These charges that were filed this morning are in addition to the charge that was filed last week out of Ocean Township for the alleged aggravated arson of the defendant's own home. And by filing these charges, the state alleges that the defendant murdered his brother, Keith Canero, and Keith's entire family. His two children, Sophia and Jesse, and his wife, Jennifer, during the early morning hours of Tuesday, November 20th. Specifically, we allege that the defendant repeatedly shot and killed his brother while he was outside of the side of his home, and then moved to murder the rest of the family inside the home. We allege that Jennifer was shot and stabbed, and the two Canero children were repeatedly stabbed by knife. We also allege that after murdering the Canero family, the defendant then set fire to the house at 15 Willowbrook and Fultonac in an effort to conceal and disguise his earlier committed crimes.

Speaker 2:
[30:22] Additional charges were filed linking Paul to the murders of his own family members. And I remember hearing about this when it first happened, and I remember feeling completely shocked, but also not shocked at the same time. Paul's legal team immediately went into damage control mode, like they are hired to do, and they were defending his innocence in the press and just saying how he absolutely had nothing to do with it.

Speaker 5:
[30:46] Mr. Caniero maintains his innocence of the charges. He has indicated that he would never engage in conduct which would cause harm to his brother or his brother's family. And he intends to challenge the evidence that has been gathered by the prosecutor's office in this case. And certainly in his view, he believes that when the case is finally resolved, that he'll be vindicated.

Speaker 6:
[31:18] I'd like to add that Paul Caniero loved his brother, loved his sister-in-law like a sister loved those children. And he would never do anything to harm them. There's no reason on this earth for him to harm them.

Speaker 2:
[31:32] The truth was, there was so much that the investigators had uncovered behind the scenes. And we are going to get into all of it, so buckle up. Because originally, it seemed like that 911 call about the fire at Paul's house was the very first call that was connected to any of the cases, right? But actually, it wasn't. You see, at approximately 3:33 a.m., so, what, about an hour and a half after the security system shut down, but an hour and a half before that first 911 call came in, a different call had come in to 911. And this time, it was from a man reporting that he had heard what sounded like multiple gunshots.

Speaker 4:
[32:12] Call Snick Police, Separator Ward. Hey, how are you today?

Speaker 3:
[32:16] Hi. Do you have hiking in the middle of the night until Snick with us? No, you're not allowed to hunt anywhere in the middle of the night.

Speaker 1:
[32:28] Are you hearing gunshots?

Speaker 6:
[32:29] I heard gunshots, yeah. Okay, where are you?

Speaker 3:
[32:32] Let me send somebody to the area. Okay, you don't see anything, you just hear it?

Speaker 5:
[32:42] I was in the building, clear the way.

Speaker 1:
[32:46] And then you go boom.

Speaker 6:
[32:47] It's just a figure of your gunshot.

Speaker 1:
[32:49] Okay, absolutely.

Speaker 3:
[32:49] Well, send somebody right over to the area. And you said you can't see a car or anything that would be involved or anything like that, right?

Speaker 6:
[32:56] It's pretty dark.

Speaker 2:
[33:02] What street are you on, just so we can get a reference point?

Speaker 6:
[33:05] The Rivers Edge. The Rivers Edge is behind.

Speaker 3:
[33:13] Just going to see more.

Speaker 6:
[33:14] And how many of them did you hear?

Speaker 2:
[33:19] Five.

Speaker 6:
[33:20] And then two secondary and one more.

Speaker 3:
[33:23] Okay. Let me send somebody right out there. Can I just get your name for my record? And what's your telephone number?

Speaker 6:
[33:35] Just for my record, we're not going to call you. Definitely, you can, if you want to call me.

Speaker 3:
[33:44] Okay, and you don't want to speak to an officer, you just want an area checked, right? Yeah, I mean, I don't care how you decide.

Speaker 6:
[33:50] I think it would be, if he was hunting and he took out a deer, it would have been a lot of money.

Speaker 3:
[33:56] Anyway, I was getting shot.

Speaker 5:
[33:57] Yeah, let me just double check and make sure.

Speaker 3:
[33:59] I don't think if it was an officer putting down a deer, it would go off that much. And I don't see them doing anything right now.

Speaker 2:
[34:05] Yeah, so it's not an officer putting a deer down.

Speaker 4:
[34:08] All right, we'll send somebody right out.

Speaker 6:
[34:09] Thanks so much for reporting. Have a good morning.

Speaker 2:
[34:12] Now, I would call this man a neighbor of Keith's, but the reality is he actually lived about three and a half miles away from the house. But police responded and they patrolled the area looking for anything suspicious. However, they didn't find anything. And at the time, they didn't really think much of it. Maybe the caller had simply been mistaken. Maybe it was fireworks, maybe it was something else. Who knows? Except later, another witness came forward. And this person actually did live on Willowbrook Road, where Keith and Jennifer's house was located. And her report was almost identical to the first callers, right down to how many gunshots she believed she heard. The woman said that she had woken up at around 1:30 a.m. and she couldn't fall back asleep. So she wasn't woken up to the sound of gunshots. She already was awake, which makes, in my mind, her memory and recollection all the more clear. I think if you're woken up by a noise, maybe it's difficult to discern how many gunshots it was or the exact noise or when it began. But if she had already been awake and up and then heard it after the fact, that makes it a pretty clear recollection in my mind. And she also told the operator that she was familiar with the sound of gunshots. So it wasn't like she had simply heard a loud noise and assumed the worst. And she described hearing five loud consecutive, quote, cracks, followed by a period of silence. Then one more single crack. The last thing that she noted was that when she heard these gunshots, she looked over at her cable box and she saw that the time was 310 a.m. Now, the man who had originally called 911 about hearing these gunshots, he had reported them about 20 minutes later than this woman did. But the timing is still fairly close and the number of shots fired or shots heard, I should say, was pretty much identical. So this information really helped the investigators begin to solidify a timeline for the murders. And then once the autopsy reports came back, the timeline became even clearer. Now, we already talked about a lot of the injuries to these family members, right? And hearing how extensive these injuries were on these families' bodies, you might assume that their causes of death were simply the gunshot wounds or the stab wounds, right? Well, the reports gave the investigators a little more clarification about exactly what had happened, and even more than that, when it happened. And just a quick warning here, these autopsy details are very difficult to hear, especially when we talk about the children. But let's start with Keith. When Keith was found lying on the ground outside of the home, that hoodie that he was wearing was covered in bullet holes. In total, he had been shot five times, with wounds to his back, face, and head. Now, the forensic pathologist determined that at one point, one of the shots that had been fired had been fired when the muzzle of the gun had been pressed directly against his hood, and that at this point, Keith was either already deceased, or he was actively dying when that final shot was fired, with just, again, the muzzle directly against him, in, you know, not even like close range, but, you know, touching range. Then there's his wife, Jennifer. Jennifer had five stab wounds in total. Unfortunately, investigators weren't able to gather as many details from those wounds, though, as they normally might, and the reason why is because her body had been severely burned, which, again, just another warning before I continue, but her body was described as having very little skin remaining. The burns were so extensive that the forensic pathologist couldn't even verify Jennifer's hair color, eye color, or the length of her fingernails. And out of the three victims found inside the home, Jennifer's burns were the most severe. In addition to the stab wounds, Jennifer also had been shot in the head, and the investigators were able to recover fragments of the bullet that remained inside her brain. Now, I'm also just going to briefly go over the children's injuries just so you can understand the severity of this crime, but I completely understand if you want to skip ahead a few minutes because this part is especially difficult, of course. 11-year-old Jesse had five stab wounds to his body, and the forensic pathologist had described one of those wounds as a clear indication that Jesse had been trying to fight back, or at least protect himself because it was a defensive wound. Investigators also determined that Jesse's arm had been raised in front of his chest when the knife went through his arm and then into his chest, again, trying to protect himself. His official cause of death was listed as stab wounds, specifically to his torso and upper chest. However, smoke inhalation was also listed as a contributing factor, which, that detail is incredibly important. Because up until that point, the investigators had believed that this entire family may have been killed first and then the fire was set to destroy evidence afterward, right? But now, looking at Jesse's autopsy, it showed something completely different. He was still alive when this fire started. Now, little 8-year-old Sophia's autopsy was perhaps the most upsetting to read about. Because arguably, her death was the most violent, although none of the victims in this family had anything resembling a peaceful ending at all. But Sophia had so many cuts and stab wounds across her body that the forensic pathologist couldn't even count them individually. Instead, they categorized them into groups of stab wounds. And in total, there were 17 groups of stab wounds. And as difficult as that is to hear, it does make sense why they had to group them. Because these injuries were spread across her entire body. Her head, back, arms, thighs, chest, buttocks, legs, ankles, even her nose, just everywhere. The wound to her nose actually cut through her sinuses, and it reached all the way back to the bottom of her skull. The stab wounds to her chest were also extremely deep. They struck her ribs and penetrated her right lung. The damage caused that lung to collapse, which then forced her heart toward the left side of her chest, and it caused her left lung to collapse as well. Which, listening to those details, you might assume that stab wounds were Sophia's direct cause of death, and technically, yes, they were. However, the forensic pathologist also reported that the carbon monoxide level in her hemoglobin was 49%, which is extremely high. And just hearing that number alone gives you a pretty good idea of what that means, if you are familiar with carbon monoxide levels, but investigators explained that at just 10% of carbon monoxide, someone would already begin feeling extremely nauseous and disoriented. So because Sophia had those elevated carbon monoxide levels and also soot in her airway, her official cause of death was listed as sharp force injuries and smoke inhalation, which meant something extremely important for these investigators. Just like Jessie, Sophia was still alive when this fire was started. And why does that matter, you might be wondering, or does it even matter? The thing is that neither Keith nor Jennifer had any soot in their airways, which strongly suggested that they had been killed before the fire began, while the children were still alive when the fire was set. Now, it becomes a little harder to determine the exact sequence of events from there. It's possible that the children were stabbed first, and then the fire started with the attacker, assuming the injuries would soon be fatal, or maybe the fire was started while they were still being attacked, we aren't sure. But either way, one thing that the investigators knew now for certain, is the fire was not started when Keith and Jennifer were killed. And that is a huge detail, because it helps establish the timeline, the order of events, and how the attack likely unfolded inside the home. However, the 911 calls, the witness statements, the autopsy findings, all of that alone, they weren't what ultimately led the investigators to charge Paul with the murders. There was so much more evidence. And I want to shift away for a moment from the timeline evidence to talk about the physical evidence that made charging Paul with the murders feel almost inevitable. The weapon that was used to stab the members of the family was eventually recovered from a debris pile inside the house. And investigators determined that it was a common kitchen knife. This isn't a weapon that somebody had brought inside the home. This was a knife that had already been inside the home. And investigators were able to determine this for two main reasons. First, the knife block in the kitchen was missing one knife. Secondly, the branding on the recovered knife matched the rest of the knives in the block, so the knife was collected as evidence and it was tested for DNA. And the investigators did find DNA on the handle. It was 8-year-old Sofia's. So that confirmed one of the murder weapons. But that still left another one out there, right? What about the gun? At first, investigators weren't even sure what type of firearm had been used. The bullet fragments recovered from Keith and Jennifer's bodies were simply too small to analyze properly. But, investigators were able to recover 7 fired 9mm bullet casings along with one unfired round. All at the crime scene. So keep that in mind. Now, given that the investigators were already highly suspicious of Paul from very early on, they obtained warrants to search his home, right? And that search, it produced some very significant pieces of evidence. One of the items seized from inside Paul's house was a SIG Sauer 9mm pistol, and it matched the 9mm casings found at the crime scene. So, just like that, murder weapon number 2 had been identified. And there was more. The fire damage at Paul's house had been concentrated mostly in the basement area of the home. And the basement had been burned fairly badly, even though the rest of the house ultimately ended up being saved, as we talked about. But among the burn piles and the debris down in the basement, the investigators found what appeared to be a burnt t-shirt and a pair of jeans. So both items of clothing were collected, and they were tested for DNA. And guess what they found? Sophia's DNA was present on both the t-shirt and the jeans, which made it pretty clear that that fire at Paul's house, it wasn't just some random damage. It was likely all in an attempt to destroy evidence. Also found in that debris pile was a black surgical style glove, which also tested positive for little Sophia's DNA. And I have to say, it's interesting that Sophia's DNA was the only victim's DNA found on these items. I mean, I know that her attack appears to have been the most prolonged and the most brutal, but the entire crime scene was violent and bloody. So it's hard not to wonder why her DNA was the only one recovered from those particular pieces of evidence. I'm not sure. But regardless, the fact that any DNA from any of the victims was found on those items, I mean, it helped the investigators connect the evidence directly back to the crime. Now at this point, investigators had DNA evidence, the murder weapons, multiple pieces of evidence tying Paul back to the scene, and it looked like a slam dunk. However, there was still one enormous question. People who knew this family said that Paul and Keith had always been very close. They were brothers. They were business partners. They loved each other. They spent years building businesses together, and they were deeply connected, both professionally and personally. Paul's daughters were older than Keith's children too, so they often babysat their younger cousins and treated them like their own siblings. From the outside, the family appeared extremely close. So at what point does Paul suddenly decide, I'm going to kill them all? Well remember earlier when I mentioned that Paul and Keith had another brother, the one who fled the state when the news broke? Well, it turns out that his wife, Keith and Paul's sister-in-law, she was actually the person to provide the investigators with the details about the brothers' relationship, the less than flattering details, I will say. Details that begin answering the biggest question in this entire case, why? We already know that Keith and Paul were business partners. But when the investigators started digging deeper and conducting interviews, they began learning things about the business relationship that they hadn't expected. Their sister-in-law's name isn't listed in the court documents. She is simply referred to as EB. But when EB was interviewed, she told the investigators that there had been growing tension between Paul and Keith regarding their businesses. And she knew this because her husband, referred to as CC, had been hearing about it directly from Keith. Keith had been confiding in him. Which just as a quick side note, EB was interviewed instead of her husband because he and their daughter and had already gone out of state to go stay with her parents. So the court documents don't really explain why she remained behind at this point, but she was the one interviewed. So EB told investigators that on November 19th, 2018 at approximately 6:58 PM, her husband received an email from Keith. The email had been forwarded from two of Keith and Paul's business associates. And what those associates said in this email, it was not good. They told Keith that money was missing from one of the businesses and that this money needed to be located. And apparently, concerns about money weren't new. Not at all. Keith had already been confiding in his other brother about financial issues within the businesses. And if you have a three sibling family, I do, I have a sister and a brother, you'll be able to understand this. It's one of those situations where something's happening with one sibling. So you go to another sibling for advice because you know that that person is going to know your other sibling just as well as you do. And it's not because it's malicious or because you're trying to do things in secret, but it's just to get opinions and advice because you all know each other so well. And that's what had been happening. According to the wife, Keith had even told his brother that he wanted to sell one of the businesses because he had grown increasingly frustrated with Paul over the amount of money that Paul had been spending from one of their shared accounts. So this had clearly been an ongoing issue. But the fact that Keith had then forwarded that business email to his third brother just hours before the murders, it made this whole situation feel even more eerie. So after hearing this information, the investigators, of course, wanted to speak with someone else who understood the inner workings of the businesses. Someone who could provide details but without tipping Paul off. So they contacted the office manager of the brothers' companies. And she provided some very important insight into their financial arrangement. For the IT company, Keith owned 90% of the business, while Paul owned 10%. The Pest Control Company, however, was split 50-50. But even with that being split 50-50, I mean, Keith essentially owned the vast majority of one of their main businesses. So yes, they were business partners, but the money that was coming in was not distributed equally. And honestly, even before investigators knew the exact percentages, you could almost see hints of the imbalance just by looking at the brothers' homes a little bit closer. I mean, both houses were beautiful, don't get me wrong. Neither family was struggling financially, certainly not. Paul's house looked like the home of someone who was doing very well, definitely higher than middle class. And you could just tell by looking at it that he certainly had a solid income. But when you looked at Keith and Jennifer's house, it was kind of on a whole different level. You know those houses that you drive past and you think like, what kind of job do you think that this person has to be able to afford a house like that? Well, that was this house. It was like a full-blown mansion. I mean, the yard was enormous. The pool and the lawn, they were perfectly maintained. The house itself looked modern and architecturally unique. And it was just stunning. So one source had estimated that Paul's house was worth around $550,000, which again is still very, very comfortable. But Keith's house, it was valued at around 1.6 million, which that is a huge difference. And the office manager also revealed something else that was interesting about Paul's finances. Apparently, Paul had previously been in a car accident and he had been declared disabled. So since around 2013, he had been collecting insurance and disability benefits related to that accident. Meanwhile, all payments from the companies were actually being routed to his wife, Susan. Almost like Paul was routing his income through Susan's account so it wouldn't get flagged, probably so that his personal income would appear lower and he could keep collecting benefits and working the system. But here's where things got even more serious. In that same email that was sent the night before the murders, the business associates told Keith that all payments to Susan, which is essentially Paul's income, needed to stop immediately. So it definitely sounded like things between the two brothers had become serious, contentious, that there was something brewing, right? But investigators still didn't know just how serious the situation was. Not until they figured out the exact numbers that were involved. Now remember that email where the business associates told Keith that money was missing from one of the companies? Well the amount that was mentioned in that email was about $78,000. A huge amount of money, right? However, that was only the amount that Keith had become aware of the day before he was murdered. Keith and Paul had been arguing about money for quite some time by then, without Keith fully realizing just how much money might actually be missing. Because then after the murders, once the investigators eventually uncovered the full amount, the total amount missing? It was closer to $300,000. Now how Paul thought that he was going to get away with taking that much money from the companies is beyond me. Yet at the same time, killing your brother and his entire family over $300,000 seems insane to me. I mean, don't get me wrong, that is a huge amount of money. But these two were brothers and they were successful businessmen. I mean, you would think that something even bigger would have to be at stake here to explain the level of brutality that was involved in these murders. Killing your brother and his whole family, your niece and your nephew. We always talk about how stabbings are just so personal and in close range and it takes an incredible amount of force. You would think, okay, there's got to be more than just $300,000 at stake here for him to wipe out his brother's entire family. And sure enough, there was. Because if Paul's anger was directed at Keith, you could maybe understand why he would kill just Keith to wipe away that $300,000 that's missing or try to make it better or whatever. But why did Jennifer and the kids have to die as well? Well, investigators eventually had uncovered something else. Paul was actually listed as a contingent beneficiary on Keith's $3 million life insurance policy. However, it was contingent because there was one condition. Paul would only receive that $3 million if no one else in Keith's immediate family was alive to inherit it. No wife, no children, nobody else. So, it turns out, there was a lot more at stake here. According to prosecutors, Paul didn't just kill Keith because he had been caught stealing money from the businesses. He killed his entire family because their deaths would mean that he stood to gain millions of dollars. Paul's trial took years to finally begin, but on January 12, 2026, it officially got underway. And here's how the prosecution laid out what they believed happened that night. Paul waited until the early morning hours, and then he got into his car, a white Porsche. He got into that car with a loaded gun, fully aware of what he was about to do. When he arrived at his brother Keith's house, prosecutors say he first went to the generator and he cut the power, knowing that it would likely draw Keith outside to investigate. And just as he expected, Keith came outside moments later, trying to figure out what had happened to the electricity. So that's when Paul opened fire on his brother. Shooting Keith repeatedly. Then with Keith dead, prosecutors argued that Paul knew that the rest of the murders would be much easier to carry out. So he went inside the house and went for Jennifer next. Now keep in mind, everyone inside of the house would have been confused. It was the middle of the night, the power had just gone out, the house was dark, not only because it was late in the middle of the night, but again, because the electricity had been cut. So they likely could barely see anything at all. And in that darkness, someone they knew, someone they trusted, was now hunting them down. After attacking Jennifer, prosecutors say Paul then found Jessie. He attacked Jessie, and then he went for eight-year-old Sophia. Once all four victims had been attacked, the prosecutors believe that Paul started a slow burning fire, which then continued to grow over the next several hours. And as we now know from the autopsy reports, ultimately killing his niece and nephew and destroying large parts of the house along the way. So then Paul left. And meanwhile, his own wife and daughters were sleeping peacefully back home, completely unaware of what had just happened to their family. According to prosecutors, Paul then switched the barrel of his gun, changed his clothes, and placed those clothes in a pile before starting a fire at his own home. Then, after starting the fire, he ran up the stairs from the basement inside his home, waking up his family and making sure that they got out safely. And honestly, the plan wasn't particularly sophisticated. There was a lot of evidence left behind, which is exactly why investigators were able to arrest him just days later. And according to the prosecutors, this was all done in an attempt to escape the financial hole that Paul had dug for himself, all for that life insurance payout. But as we know, defense attorneys will go to great lengths to defend their clients. I mean, nothing is off the table if they believe it might lead to a not-guilty verdict. So instead of trying to poke holes in the prosecution's timeline, Paul's team took a completely different approach. They suggested that their other brother, the third brother, CeCe, that he was actually the one responsible for the murders. Their theory was that if Paul had been framed, then the $3 million life insurance payout could potentially go to CeCe instead.

Speaker 4:
[57:06] They directed their attention at Paul Caneiro, and they remained fixated on him ever since. They did not investigate anyone else. They did not investigate any other suspects, even obvious ones. And they searched for evidence to support their theory. They ignored things that didn't make sense. They ignored things that did not add up. They ignored things that did not fit with their theory.

Speaker 2:
[57:38] The prosecution found that argument pretty hard to believe. And at one point, they even said, quote, he would have to be the unluckiest man in the world to shut off his cameras, get framed for the murders, and then not be able to prove he was framed because he shut off his own cameras. Which, honestly, wow, how awful of a person do you have to be to kill your brother and kill his entire family, then try to ruin your other brother's life by pinning the blame on him? I mean, talk about a truly sick and manipulative person. Fortunately, the prosecution presented a very strong case against Paul, and they were able to show the jury exactly why that life insurance payout would have been life-changing for him. Because it wasn't just that Paul had been taking out loans from Keith or the businesses or allegedly siphoning money from their businesses, even in his personal life, Paul was drowning in debt. Paul had taken out personal loans from his retirement fund, he had accumulated hundreds of thousands of dollars in credit card debt. I mean, it was not looking good. In 2017 alone, his total expenses were over $400,000. In 2018, that number dropped slightly, but it was still a little over $300,000. Which to put that in perspective, Paul's annual salary was only $225,000, which I say only, that's obviously a huge salary. But if his whole annual salary is $225,000 and he's spending $315,000 and then another year $400,000, how are you spending more than you're even earning? And some of those expenses were normal things like mortgage payments, but other expenses is where it started to raise some eyebrows, including a $17,000 shopping trip at Tiffany, the jewelry company. Also, $39,000 on his Porsche lease, because, what do they say? Fake it till you make it. Even though you're making $225,000, what? You need to get a Porsche? Like, why not get a Civic? Why not get something else? Why not get any other car? Like, why are you spending so much money? I mean, the numbers were pretty staggering, especially for someone who, remember, only owned 10% of one of the businesses that he shared with Keith. Paul was the definition of somebody spending money that he didn't actually have, and that alone helped explain why prosecutors believed that Paul had a powerful financial motive to kill Keith and his family. But the prosecution also presented something else. Some of the final calls and text messages that were exchanged between Keith and Paul illustrated a very interesting scenario. And honestly, I think that those might have been some of the most damning pieces of evidence of all. These text messages showed that Keith was serious. He was done with Paul. No more excuses, no more lies, no more putting up with the chaos that had apparently been going on for quite some time. Keith had reached his limit, and Paul, he knew it.

Speaker 5:
[60:33] Paul, just give me the lobby so I can see where the money went. Take it under the cure and tell me where the money went.

Speaker 4:
[60:45] Hey, somebody else could be with you there.

Speaker 6:
[60:47] I need to know where that money went.

Speaker 5:
[60:59] I understand the thing.

Speaker 2:
[61:01] What's the f*** up, Paul? That call alone highlighted just how tense things had become between the two of them. But the text messages, like I said, they made it even clearer that Keith was completely fed up. In one text, Keith wrote to Paul, what the f*** are you doing? In another message, he said, this is total bullshit. You have time to email me when you need money for your insurance, but you don't have time to follow up with me? I'm f***ing dealing with an issue that affects our only large client. Then he sent another message saying, don't put your insurance on my f***ing card. I'll find my own f***ing employee and put my own f***ing advertisement out. And then the text kept coming. I'm done chasing you down, your f***ing schedule, so f*** off with this shit already. 100 f***ing emails and conversations and you can't follow up properly on any of them. Where the f*** is my one page explanation from the 401k fiasco that I asked you for months ago? And honestly, there were many, many more messages like that. But these few alone made something very clear. Any witness who had testified for the defense, claiming that Paul and Keith were still close and that business was going fine, they probably had no idea what was actually happening behind the scenes. And Paul's defense team struggled throughout the trial. In fact, there were multiple moments where the judge had to scold Paul's attorney for different issues that came up during the proceedings. At times, things in the courtroom became pretty heated.

Speaker 3:
[62:24] The other part of this is that you're saying in your footnote on page 2 that defense counsel further recalls the witness mentioning, so I guess this is during a conversation that you had with her, that she confronted Corey about it, either text or phone call. Do those exist?

Speaker 4:
[62:44] I don't know, Judge. I'm just, I'm being incandor to everyone. I'm just relaying the context of the conversation and what was told to me. That's all. The court is clearly being accusatory toward the defense. The court is using words such as conscientious or conscious and deliberate.

Speaker 3:
[63:01] I'm using it because it's true. I'm using it because it's true, Ms. Baskin-Long. So don't say that I'm using these words for any other reason because you did this. I didn't do it. I've given you the opportunity to ask questions and do whatever you need. And the reality is you can roll your eyes for the record as you just did. But the reality is simply this. You were given the opportunity under these circumstances to turn over electronically stored information and you didn't do it.

Speaker 2:
[63:31] After five weeks, the trial finally wrapped up, and the jury only needed six hours to reach a verdict. And Paul sat in the courtroom completely emotionless as the verdict was read.

Speaker 3:
[63:44] All right, how do you find as to count one of the indictment charging the defendant, Paul Canero, with the murder of Keith Canero?

Speaker 6:
[63:51] Guilty.

Speaker 3:
[63:52] Count two. How do you find as to count two of the indictment charging the defendant, Paul Canero, with the murder of Jennifer Canero?

Speaker 6:
[64:01] Guilty.

Speaker 3:
[64:03] How do you find as to count three of the indictment charging the defendant, Paul Canero, with the murder of Jesse Canero?

Speaker 2:
[64:09] Guilty.

Speaker 3:
[64:10] Count four. How do you find us to count four of the indictment charging the defendant Paul Caneiro with the murder of Sofia Caneiro?

Speaker 6:
[64:18] Guilty.

Speaker 2:
[64:18] He was found guilty on all four counts of murder, along with numerous additional charges, and he had a total of 15 guilty verdicts. In February of 2026, Paul and his legal team had already filed a motion requesting a new trial, which, interestingly, the documents didn't even outline a specific reason why Paul believed he deserved one. They simply stated that, quote, the defendant will rely upon oral argument, arguments previously raised before the court, and a forthcoming brief. His sentencing is currently scheduled for May 12, 2026. And I have to say, when you step back and look at everything that happened in this case, it really does come down to one word. Money. Or, I don't know, maybe a few words. The love of money. The need to have more money. Because, in the end, the motive behind the brutal murders of Keith, Jennifer, Jesse, Sophia, it all appears to have been something painfully simple. Greed. A man who was willing to destroy his entire family to escape the financial hole that he dug for himself. And I have to wonder, what Paul's wife and daughters say about all of this? How do you even, like, wrap your mind around that kind of betrayal and that he's capable of that? There is not a doubt in my mind that if he did inherit that $3 million, he would spend it because he obviously has a history of overspending, you know, what is the term, not like overspending his means, but you get what I'm saying, that there's no doubt that once he was in a position where he felt cornered again and, like, he was in a financial hole, that he would have killed his wife and his own daughters. Mark my words on that. He killed his brother's family first because it wouldn't directly affect him, you know, emotionally, or, I mean, I guess it would, but, like, you know, it wasn't so close to home. But then I bet you more than anything, if he ran out of money again, which it would be only a matter of time until he did, I think he would have turned on his own wife and daughters. And I would imagine that they've probably had that realization as well. I don't know, though. I'm curious to know what you think. Anne, what do you think the other brother's saying? He's just, like, stepping back now and being like, what the fuck? Like, thank God. First of all, thank God I never went into business with any of my brothers, but also, like, what is going on here? It's a wild one. And it's definitely not like the traditional family annihilation cases that we hear of. But thank you so much for listening to today's episode, for hearing Keith, Jennifer, Sophia, and Jessie's story. And I appreciate you being here. Curious to know your thoughts? Definitely let me know in the comments. And if you have a quick second, don't forget, like this video if you're watching on YouTube. Subscribe to the channel if you haven't already. And if you're listening to the podcast version, make sure that you are following the podcast so you don't miss new episodes. We will have a brand new episode releasing tomorrow, a deep dive into a new case over on my second True Crime Podcast 10 to Life. So you can hop on over there. And as a reminder, if you ever want these either audio episodes or video episodes completely ad free, you can get access to all of them at patreon.com/annieelise. We post them every single day of release, but the ad free version and uncensored version. So all right, with that, instead of be nice, don't kill people. I think the new tagline might be be nice and don't kill your family. All right, guys, thanks. Take care. Bye.