transcript

Speaker 1:
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Speaker 2:
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Speaker 3:
[00:58] There was so much guilt with having my second kid. I just rushed this so much to the point where Griffin got no time along with me. People really think breast milk can cure cancer.

Speaker 4:
[01:09] I know.

Speaker 3:
[01:10] World peace.

Speaker 4:
[01:10] I tried putting it on some of my skin rashes and I still had a rash.

Speaker 3:
[01:13] No, it's because it was in water. I think that was like our parents' generation. They're like, you sit them down one time, you get it done, you'd never bring it up again.

Speaker 4:
[01:20] It's Griffin Mandate.

Speaker 3:
[01:21] Then the kids are like, one time my mom said penis. It was really scary.

Speaker 4:
[01:33] Welcome back to Always Here. I'm your host, Abby Howard.

Speaker 3:
[01:36] And I'm also Abby Howard.

Speaker 4:
[01:38] And you're listening to our podcast.

Speaker 3:
[01:41] We are here every Friday, or whenever you choose to listen to it, fit us in your schedule, to share the hope and the hard with heart and humor.

Speaker 4:
[01:50] That's right.

Speaker 3:
[01:51] I feel like we haven't said that for the past couple weeks.

Speaker 4:
[01:52] I know, I don't even think we've done Hope & the Hards in a while. Like we kinda have, yeah, but.

Speaker 3:
[01:57] I got them this week.

Speaker 4:
[01:58] I did too.

Speaker 3:
[01:59] Okay, you go first.

Speaker 4:
[02:00] Okay, well Easter was so fun. I'm super hopeful. I do think there was a little bit of a hard and just missing my family, because all my family's in Missouri and we live in Arizona. So I feel like every holiday that comes around, I just feel a little FOMO. And that's always like a little sad, but it's always so fun here with our family here.

Speaker 3:
[02:16] Yeah, wait, aren't your parents back in town?

Speaker 4:
[02:19] My mom's back in town. But like my sisters, my grandma, all my, I was thinking about this, I haven't seen my extended family in a really long time. Because we didn't go back for Christmas this year. Like we went early with Vivian since she was so fresh. We just kind of skipped all the big parties. So yeah, I just haven't seen any of my cousins and my aunts and uncles in a really long time. That's sad. I know, yeah, when you think about it, you're like, dang, your time is just limited.

Speaker 3:
[02:45] I guess, I would say my family is smaller, pretty small in the grand scheme of things. They're able to come out here and like, but there's pros and cons to that. It's kind of fun probably to have a huge family gathering and stuff like that.

Speaker 4:
[02:58] Yeah, it is.

Speaker 3:
[02:59] Yeah, Easter was fun. We had a good time. My grandma came to visit. That was actually my hope. It was really fun having my grandma. She stayed with us, but she hasn't stayed with us the past couple of times that she came, or actually just the last time she came, she stayed with my parents. And it was fun having her stay here. And my grandma is 82. She was, she's like, widowed. Does that sound like a bad way of saying it? My grandpa passed two years ago. She's been a widow for two years now, and she was married for over 50 years. And I always think, I'm like, what would be the worst possible thing that could happen in my life? And I'm like, Matt, dying would be, sorry to make it heavy. I'm like, that would be the worst possible thing. But then honestly, looking at my grandma now, which my grandma and my grandpa for their entire lives, were attached at the hip, did everything together. But watching my grandma now has honestly been so inspiring to me, because I'm like, okay, probably the worst thing ever has happened to her. And I'm looking at her, like saying I have a new lease on life kind of sounds like, like she would never have chosen that she would still choose to have my grandma here for sure. But seeing the way that she has moved through that grief and like carried it with her and like honestly, like put herself in this position that she is now where she's like traveling for the first time ever at 82. She, my grandpa had like a severe fear of flying. They didn't have the finances to travel when they were younger. Wasn't even really a thought. And then later on in life, when they had the money and the finance or and the like ability to, they still like he had a severe fear of flying. And so now my grandma this year is like going to Greece. She's going to Alaska. She's like got, she's coming here. And it's like cool and inspiring. Like she has all of her girlfriends. And I don't know, I just see her, she's a very resilient woman. I really respect that about her. And also like our whole family, she lives in the Midwest too. Our whole family like left our hometown except for her. And so she has every reason to like kind of sulk and like, I don't know.

Speaker 4:
[05:11] Being able to feel alone or.

Speaker 3:
[05:13] Not try new things and just like, like just feel down on herself. But she kept talking to me about, she's like, growing old is not, she's like, there's a lot of good things about growing old. I thought she was being sarcastic. She was not. She's like, there's a lot of good things about growing old. She's like, oh, I'm so happy to hear you say that grandma. Like I feel like I don't want to hear bad things about getting old, you know? Throwback to our Botox episode.

Speaker 4:
[05:35] She's such a spitfire.

Speaker 3:
[05:36] And she is a spitfire. That's kind of what this project called. But she then, I'm like, well, okay, like what are you talking about? She's like, well, I just, she goes, I have a much lower appetite now.

Speaker 4:
[05:46] She's like, that's the first thing that she thought about.

Speaker 3:
[05:49] She's like, I don't need to eat as much food to feel full. And I was like, well, that's, can't wait for that day, gosh. Seriously, I'm not there, but I'm excited for that day. And then she's like, also, she goes, great grandchildren. And she's like, so, which I'm like, I'm always excited to be a grandma, which is, I'm 27, but you know, I'm excited for it. But then I'm like, great grandchildren, another bonus. And so it is, she like kept saying like, these casual, like really fun things about growing old. She's so active. She goes to her little workout class. People from my hometown send me pictures on Instagram of my grandma planking, 82.

Speaker 4:
[06:27] I was gonna say, it's so inspiring seeing, like she's 82 with great grandchildren and she's on the floor playing with them, up and at them, going all day, like, yeah, she picks them up.

Speaker 3:
[06:37] I know, I'm like, stop doing that.

Speaker 4:
[06:38] They're literally almost as tall as her. Literally small.

Speaker 3:
[06:41] She's like 4'10.

Speaker 4:
[06:42] Yeah, she's so small.

Speaker 3:
[06:43] She's gonna get mad if she watches this because she is 4'11, she claims.

Speaker 4:
[06:46] Oh, sorry. But I mean, it's so impressive. And it's just a goal. You're like, that is the goal.

Speaker 3:
[06:51] I know, I'm so grateful that I have like an example, like her to look up to.

Speaker 4:
[06:55] Yes, totally.

Speaker 3:
[06:56] Both my grandmas, but specifically just since I spent the whole weekend with my grandma, I don't normally see.

Speaker 4:
[07:01] Right.

Speaker 3:
[07:02] I was just like, it was really good. Matt Owitz tells me I'm just like her.

Speaker 4:
[07:06] Yeah, in a lot of ways you are.

Speaker 3:
[07:08] I'm like, thanks. And I like, so anyway, it was fun. And we also, it was my grandpa's birthday, the same day as Easter. So together we made a carrot cake, which was his favorite type of cake. And we like just talked about him as we made it. And it was really sweet and special. Cause we were like thinking about something we want to do that would like honor him and memorialize him. But we're like, we don't want it to be sad.

Speaker 4:
[07:29] Right.

Speaker 3:
[07:30] Like Matt was like, we could play Go Cubs Go. Like, which was-

Speaker 4:
[07:33] Was that his favorite game?

Speaker 3:
[07:34] He was- It's a song?

Speaker 4:
[07:36] I'm sorry. I thought it was a game.

Speaker 3:
[07:37] I feel like that's fair. Go Cubs Go.

Speaker 4:
[07:40] Oh, so they play at the end of the Cubs game. Let's see. Listen, I'm a Cardinals fan, so I just don't know that one.

Speaker 3:
[07:47] I could cry right now. You want me to cry right now?

Speaker 4:
[07:49] No, no, stop. I thought it was a game with stacking cups. No, I'm going to cry right now. Okay, let us feel it.

Speaker 3:
[07:53] My great-grandpa, this.

Speaker 4:
[07:57] Your great-grandpa?

Speaker 3:
[07:58] I'm going back another generation.

Speaker 4:
[07:59] I didn't know you knew your great-grandpa.

Speaker 3:
[08:00] I come from a generation of Cub fans, okay? And it's not even light-hearted. It's really, really serious.

Speaker 4:
[08:08] I know.

Speaker 3:
[08:08] And I feel bad. I feel like I'm not a member of the family because I don't care that much.

Speaker 4:
[08:12] And he's nodding. She's like, yeah.

Speaker 3:
[08:13] I have secondary care a lot, you know what I mean? But I have this image of my grandma's dad in the nursing home. I'm so sad thinking about this. Like, he was hunched over, and he would watch reruns of the Cubs. This man lived to like upper 90s. He lived a long life, never saw them win a World Series.

Speaker 4:
[08:38] Yeah, that's a tough one.

Speaker 3:
[08:39] And he would just put it on the cell phone. I just really wanted him to see them win a World Series. We can have a hope that he knows. 2016.

Speaker 2:
[08:50] He's watching from above.

Speaker 3:
[08:51] I don't know. I was asking my grandma all these questions about heaven. She's like, nope, that's not there. She's like, I said, do you think Pawpaw can see us right now? She's like, no.

Speaker 4:
[09:03] No, and he don't care. And I was like, okay, well. I love that.

Speaker 3:
[09:08] I was like, that's an interesting take.

Speaker 5:
[09:10] It was so quick.

Speaker 4:
[09:10] Thank you, grandma.

Speaker 5:
[09:11] You're like, I was trying to be sentimental there.

Speaker 3:
[09:14] Anyway, I was like, okay.

Speaker 5:
[09:16] I love that.

Speaker 3:
[09:16] Anyway, go comes go, and then my grandma and we were like, no, that's gonna make us cry. And so we made a carrot cake instead. We all enjoyed it.

Speaker 4:
[09:23] It was good. It was delicious.

Speaker 3:
[09:25] Wow, that was a long one. I cried during my hope, but it was really a happy hope.

Speaker 4:
[09:29] Happy hope.

Speaker 3:
[09:30] I love my grandma.

Speaker 4:
[09:32] It's sweet.

Speaker 3:
[09:32] It was fun having her visit. And yeah, it's so special having that generation. That's the perk of my parents had kids pretty young. So you still have a grandma too.

Speaker 4:
[09:42] I know. My grandma should be 93 this year. Wow. I know. I FaceTimed her for a while yesterday. It's sad. I feel like this is the first year where I've really seen her start to like, she's getting slow. The first year I've noticed her age. I think she's been like your grandma. She just had so much energy and just so peppy and spunky. And this year, I'm like, okay, yeah, girl, you're 93. And she always makes jokes about it. So it's like light hearted and funny, but yeah, she can't come out here to visit, which is a bummer. But actually one of my hopes was that I booked a bunch of plane tickets. One is me and Caleb's trip, like our special fun trip, which I'm sure I'll share later in the year. And then I'm booking a trip to go home in the summer, which I didn't get to do that last year. I know I'm so excited to go home, especially like St. Louis summer is so nostalgic and take CJ there. And I don't know, it'll just be great. Cause you always go in the winter and it's just not as much to do in the winter.

Speaker 3:
[10:33] Yeah, no.

Speaker 4:
[10:34] So it's gonna be really fun. I'm excited.

Speaker 3:
[10:37] What was your hard?

Speaker 4:
[10:38] My hard, I think it was just missing my family.

Speaker 3:
[10:41] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[10:41] And we've had just like a handful of health issues going on behind the scenes. I probably won't talk about now, but yeah, I just feel like when you're ever, you're dealing with those things, everything's fine. But you're just like, oh, the waiting, the anticipation of it is always trying to stay content. And those moments can be difficult sometimes, but there's not answers totally. But yeah, I would feel good about it.

Speaker 3:
[11:04] My hard is like a little bit lighter, but it's like, gosh, I just feel like I'm not fully present anywhere I go in my life right now. I feel like I'm just constantly thinking about, okay, what are the things I got to do? And what should I think about next? Or like, what? And then everywhere I'm at, I'm like, yeah, I'm doing a lot of things, but am I actually fully available when I'm where my two feet are anytime? And so, yeah, I don't really know how to combat that very well.

Speaker 4:
[11:32] Actually, last night, Cale put on Casey Neistat made a YouTube video talking about this.

Speaker 3:
[11:37] Really?

Speaker 4:
[11:37] I didn't watch the whole thing, so I can't tell you the conclusion of it, but he made a whole thing about how he feels like in his day. He has four quadrants of like, what he wants to do, that's productive, what he doesn't want to do, but it's productive, what he does not want to do, and it's not productive, but he does it anyway.

Speaker 3:
[11:52] Why does that quadra exist?

Speaker 4:
[11:53] Well, it's like scrolling or going on social media, like time wasters. He was mostly talking about procrastination, but I feel like he talks a lot about that feeling of like, you're doing a lot and you're spinning your wheels, but nothing's getting done.

Speaker 3:
[12:07] Oh, no, I feel like I'm getting a lot done. I just feel like I'm not being a good friend. I'm not like being good wife, not being like, I just feel like, mom guilt. I'm not fully like actually where I am, where my fear. Like I'm like, okay, I'm like having a conversation with you, but I'm like really in the back of my head. I'm thinking about, okay, do we have X, Y, and Z set aside, like ready for dinner and night? Or what are we going to do with about this amount of time? Or how is the carpet? Like just all these other random things, which I feel like that is always a thing, but it just feels like it's a really present issue at the time. I'm like, there's always, as moms, we're always multitasking, always having things going on. But right now, I'm like, I feel like I can't compartmentalize, like I need to, and be where I'm at, and so.

Speaker 4:
[12:53] Well, you guys have had so much going on. I feel like anytime you go out of town, or you have upcoming trips or things planned, you're always thrown out of your routine a little bit. And when you're out of your routines, you just start to feel a little, just not as confident in what you're.

Speaker 3:
[13:05] I just need to clear the deck.

Speaker 4:
[13:07] Clear the deck? Start afresh.

Speaker 5:
[13:08] I've seen that too, without you're not working out. You're doing your walks, but it's not the same as going and having your phone put away. You actually don't have access to your phone. And when you're working out at burn, you have to be present. You really can't be thinking about other stuff. So it's like an actual set aside time. Rather than your walks, you have your phone. You could reply to a text. You could listen to this audio book. You're doing the multitasking even when you're working out. That's a good point.

Speaker 3:
[13:32] I think that's what it is.

Speaker 5:
[13:33] You're missing a little bit of your typical routine there.

Speaker 3:
[13:35] We'll see you tomorrow.

Speaker 4:
[13:36] Yeah. Oh, the update on the public rest. We pray it comes to an end.

Speaker 3:
[13:42] I need to work out. I need to get some rage out.

Speaker 4:
[13:44] Get that rage out. That's another thing that's really exciting is our event is this weekend, which when this is posted, it'll have already happened, but we have not lived this event yet. And I'm so excited.

Speaker 5:
[13:54] Yes, we're so excited.

Speaker 4:
[13:55] My cousin Diana is coming in for her baby moon and she's coming to the event. So shout out Diana. She says she listens every week, which is so sweet. Yeah. So I'm excited. It'll just be such a fun, girly morning.

Speaker 3:
[14:04] I'm excited. It'll be fun.

Speaker 4:
[14:06] It will be fun. We had our meeting with the trainers and we're like, let's not make it like killer hard. But I did think the workout looked pretty hard.

Speaker 5:
[14:16] We'll be going next week on if it was actually hard.

Speaker 4:
[14:18] Yeah, I'm excited. That would be a fun one.

Speaker 3:
[14:19] It looks like all of our favorite exercises.

Speaker 4:
[14:21] Agreed, agreed. Well, that's awesome. We do have a while that's crazy this week.

Speaker 3:
[14:26] Oh, wait, we never talked about you being late to Easter dinner.

Speaker 4:
[14:28] Oh, well, you know, I didn't really think that I was late.

Speaker 3:
[14:31] That was my hard.

Speaker 1:
[14:32] I'm just kidding.

Speaker 4:
[14:34] I just rolled her eyes. I knew that I was late. I sent a text. I said, the Brussels sprouts are still cooking, which now you saw my Instagram post. You know why? I dropped all of them. They fell out of the oven.

Speaker 3:
[14:44] Oh, also, by the way, you thought my real, that Addie was my mom.

Speaker 5:
[14:48] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[14:49] That was you?

Speaker 5:
[14:50] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[14:50] With Brielle. Well, it seemed like nighttime.

Speaker 5:
[14:53] No. It was like 3 p.m. Yeah, it was when Brielle woke up from her nap.

Speaker 4:
[14:58] It was just a flash going past in the balcony.

Speaker 5:
[15:00] One of the boys has a pink sleep sack.

Speaker 4:
[15:02] Oh my gosh, that's hilarious. Why would you be upstairs?

Speaker 5:
[15:05] She was taking a nap. She was taking a nap.

Speaker 4:
[15:06] Oh, okay. I thought it was your mom carrying towels. That was me. I'm sorry. I take it back.

Speaker 3:
[15:16] She said, come on, Abigail.

Speaker 5:
[15:17] I said, come on, Abigail. What the heck? There were followers who knew it was me.

Speaker 4:
[15:21] Oh my gosh, I'm so out of the loop. You're so out of the loop.

Speaker 3:
[15:24] I don't even know who you are.

Speaker 4:
[15:25] I tried to come in a joke. Get back, Card. I was late to Easter.

Speaker 3:
[15:31] It wasn't a big deal. It was just funny because... Wait, what were we talking about?

Speaker 5:
[15:36] It was funny because what time did you show up?

Speaker 3:
[15:38] 5.45.

Speaker 4:
[15:39] 5.45. Oh, 47.

Speaker 5:
[15:43] Well, here's the funny thing is I... Blake and I... I had Blake check the time, arrival time, so everyone knows. 5 p.m. is when dinner was.

Speaker 4:
[15:51] Okay, never got that text. I just assumed.

Speaker 5:
[15:53] What?

Speaker 3:
[15:54] That's actually fair.

Speaker 4:
[15:54] I never got the text. I just said, I think it's five, because that's when Sunday dinner normally is.

Speaker 5:
[15:58] Yes, which sometimes you preface with five is when, five is when we're going to eat at 5.30. So I knew there was some wiggle room.

Speaker 3:
[16:04] There's always wiggle room. I was never going to get mad about people being late.

Speaker 4:
[16:07] I was really hoping there was wiggle room.

Speaker 3:
[16:08] There's always wiggle room.

Speaker 5:
[16:10] This is the funny thing. I texted my mom when we left, because I knew we'd be leaving slightly late. I said, leaving now at 5.11. So we left our apartment at 5.11, arrival time is 5 p.m. We get there probably then at like 5.20, and my mom pulls up and she's like, I thought it started at five.

Speaker 4:
[16:27] I'm like, it does. Sorry.

Speaker 5:
[16:30] But I was also, your grandma was walking in with us. I was like, this is normal.

Speaker 3:
[16:33] This is good. Here's the thing, as someone that's chronically late, I'm never going to be upset about someone being late. Like, it literally doesn't bother me, and because I'm like, yeah, I mean, it's just so, every time is an ish, you know what I mean? But it was just funny because that was the one that was actually on time. So I had everything prepped.

Speaker 4:
[16:52] Really?

Speaker 3:
[16:52] Because I was like, I'm going to work in advance, and then I'll just chill. It took until five o'clock. So that's how bad my time management is.

Speaker 4:
[17:00] That was great time management actually.

Speaker 3:
[17:01] And well, I thought I was going to have like an hour.

Speaker 4:
[17:03] Oh, of course. I thought I was good because I got there, I put my food down the table and then your food came out, but it was just warming.

Speaker 3:
[17:11] Well, then you went to the front porch to start taking pictures.

Speaker 4:
[17:16] I was like, oh, they're still cooking. The food wasn't out. Oh, I'm sorry, everybody.

Speaker 5:
[17:21] It's okay, it gave the time for the kids to open their Easter baskets.

Speaker 3:
[17:24] It's fine, honestly.

Speaker 4:
[17:25] I had no idea that we were being an inconvenience.

Speaker 5:
[17:28] Well, that's for the people who think we're so serious, that shows you that we weren't that upset. Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[17:34] I literally didn't care at all. I wasn't even actually hungry, so I was just like, thank goodness we didn't eat.

Speaker 5:
[17:38] You didn't eat until like an hour.

Speaker 4:
[17:39] Your grandma warned you when you broke in that brunch, she said, it's gonna be a lot of food. And you're like, I'm pregnant, I'm gonna eat it all. And then you get to dinner like, I can't eat it either.

Speaker 3:
[17:48] I had a tummy ache, I had a tummy ache.

Speaker 5:
[17:49] Once you ate, you said you felt better, though.

Speaker 3:
[17:51] I felt better once I ate. I feel like Inkantera poisoned me from the brunch. Cause me and Griffin both had a tummy ache. That was that chocolate fountain, man.

Speaker 4:
[18:01] A chocolate fountain will do that.

Speaker 3:
[18:03] It's cycling through something.

Speaker 4:
[18:05] Yeah, there's a lot of germs in there.

Speaker 3:
[18:06] I know, I really enjoyed it.

Speaker 4:
[18:08] You enjoyed the germs. Well, the food, at least, was amazing.

Speaker 3:
[18:11] The food was amazing, everybody.

Speaker 4:
[18:12] And that's all that matters. It was great work.

Speaker 5:
[18:14] It was amazing.

Speaker 4:
[18:15] Okay, that leads us into our wildest crazy.

Speaker 3:
[18:17] Sorry, sorry, I got into the bus, Abigail.

Speaker 4:
[18:18] It's okay. You can call me out. I'm not upset. I'll be better next time. I was early.

Speaker 3:
[18:23] You have a baby.

Speaker 4:
[18:24] I was on time to two things this week.

Speaker 3:
[18:26] That's incredible.

Speaker 4:
[18:27] Yeah, so I think I'm making a turn.

Speaker 3:
[18:28] You're on a roll.

Speaker 4:
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Speaker 3:
[18:34] It's now spring and everything is growing. The plants outside, our kids are out growing their clothes. We have babies galore.

Speaker 4:
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Speaker 3:
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Speaker 3:
[19:53] Wow, that's crazy! Talking about time management.

Speaker 4:
[19:59] Yes, talking about time management. Jake Shane, he's a creator, a comedian. He came up on my For You page on TikTok and this video has stopped me in my tracks. He, I guess, in the past, he kind of has some beef with European Wax Center and he had previously gone on a rant.

Speaker 3:
[20:14] The whole franchise?

Speaker 4:
[20:15] The whole franchise. He had gone on a rant, I guess, about they have a nine-minute grace period for their 15-minute appointments. I guess he thought that the nine-minute grace period was really weird, like, why not 10? Nine minutes is a weird number.

Speaker 3:
[20:32] Hey, you remember it though.

Speaker 4:
[20:33] That is rememberable.

Speaker 3:
[20:34] That's probably why they do it.

Speaker 4:
[20:36] Yes, and they can't give you, like, normally, if you go to the doctor, it's a 15-minute grace period, which I know that well.

Speaker 3:
[20:42] Were you late today?

Speaker 4:
[20:43] No, I'm just always, it's always, I'm always like, I have 15 minutes.

Speaker 3:
[20:46] Okay, that's crazy.

Speaker 5:
[20:49] I always follow their protocol that says, please arrive 15 minutes early.

Speaker 4:
[20:52] Never once have I gotten there 15 minutes early.

Speaker 3:
[20:54] Paperwork.

Speaker 4:
[20:54] Today, I got, I had an appointment today, I got there on time. I was just two minutes early, and I was like crushing it.

Speaker 3:
[20:59] You're crushing it? What am I gonna do with all this free time?

Speaker 4:
[21:01] Yeah, well, I did have to do paperwork, so. Anyway, Jake Shane had this podcast rant about the 9-minute grace period, and then him and European Wax Center had like some funny beef back and forth. So European Wax Center sent him a snark, basically like a snark coupon PR box that says, Jake Shane, VVIP member, exclusive 11-minute grace period because smooth doesn't rush. And then it has an asterisk, and it says, valid for select guests who don't know how to manage their time. Grace period does not extend appointment time. Physical card must be present at checkout. It literally sent him a snark.

Speaker 3:
[21:39] He has to bring this massive coupon in.

Speaker 4:
[21:42] And he did it. Did he? Yeah, I think he did. He posted it on his Instagram.

Speaker 3:
[21:45] So he wasn't offended, but the internet was offended.

Speaker 4:
[21:48] Yeah, I was shocked at the comments. A lot of people were mad at European Wax Center. They said that was like mean, petty. This is internet gold. Two extra minutes? Yeah, it's gracious.

Speaker 3:
[21:59] That's gracious.

Speaker 4:
[22:00] For a 15-minute appointment, you have four minutes to get in and out.

Speaker 3:
[22:03] First of all, I do think nine minutes is fair if it's a 15-minute appointment.

Speaker 4:
[22:06] Agreed, yeah.

Speaker 3:
[22:06] But for me, I'm like, okay, yeah, I run late. I still have to suffer the consequences of my own lateness.

Speaker 4:
[22:13] Normally, yeah, I always do.

Speaker 3:
[22:14] So if I'm too late, then here we go.

Speaker 4:
[22:16] I can't get in, that's fine.

Speaker 3:
[22:17] I can't get in, that's on me. We talk about it, everyone has consequences. With the kids, I'm like, adults have consequences. But I think the part about it that I can kind of see where they're like, oh gosh, it was like for people who can't manage their time.

Speaker 5:
[22:30] You're like, dang.

Speaker 3:
[22:31] That one cuts deep.

Speaker 4:
[22:33] That one, I'm like, oof, that's me, oof. Oof, I feel that one.

Speaker 3:
[22:37] That is rough. So he wasn't offended, the other people were.

Speaker 4:
[22:41] It didn't seem like he was offended. I mean, he read it in a tone where he was joking, obviously. You know, he's like, they called me out, sinister. They cut to his core.

Speaker 3:
[22:49] People like that love that type of humor, though.

Speaker 4:
[22:51] Oh my gosh. I mean, we're talking about it, you know?

Speaker 3:
[22:54] You know, poking fun, humor. This may be an inappropriate follow up question, but what is Jake Shane getting waxed?

Speaker 4:
[22:59] What do men get waxed? I have no idea. I mean, I can imagine. I can imagine, but I don't want to imagine what men get waxed.

Speaker 3:
[23:09] Eyebrows, chest.

Speaker 4:
[23:10] That's what I'm saying.

Speaker 5:
[23:10] If it's only a 15 minute appointment, it can't be for something that extensive.

Speaker 4:
[23:15] I think it's probably manscaping, but, you know, I just never really thought much about that. I've gotten one wax before our wedding.

Speaker 5:
[23:22] Really? Was it so painful?

Speaker 4:
[23:24] No, it wasn't that it was so painful. I was just like, I'll just never do it again. You know what I mean? You have to let your hair grow out.

Speaker 3:
[23:30] I hate that.

Speaker 4:
[23:31] Which that to me feels like automatically I'm out on that.

Speaker 3:
[23:34] Yeah, like in the summer, you're like, oh, I have an appointment in two weeks, so I gotta-

Speaker 4:
[23:37] Let it grow? Well, what are you gonna do? Not go to the pool? You know what I mean?

Speaker 3:
[23:42] Some people would just say, let it fly. That is-

Speaker 4:
[23:47] Maybe teach their own.

Speaker 3:
[23:49] No, that's why I'm such a fan of laser. I've never gotten waxed. I got lasered and that was such a great experience for me.

Speaker 4:
[23:55] Yeah, I remember with the waxing, it wasn't the initial, like they'd rip it off, obviously, and you're like, oh, it stings. But then they take the hot piece of paper and they go over the same spot again multiple times. And that was when I was like, all right.

Speaker 3:
[24:05] That's enough.

Speaker 4:
[24:07] Like a little punch, you know, get out of there. I don't know.

Speaker 3:
[24:11] I don't like, I don't want to grow it out. But with lasering, you shave before you go.

Speaker 4:
[24:15] Oh, why?

Speaker 3:
[24:16] Because it'll burn you otherwise. They're just getting the follicle.

Speaker 4:
[24:20] Oh, wow.

Speaker 3:
[24:20] So it goes through your skin.

Speaker 4:
[24:21] Interesting. Very interesting.

Speaker 3:
[24:22] And it doesn't hurt that. Well, when I got it done, because I got it done so long ago, where I was, they didn't have the pain-free lasers. So it actually did kind of hurt, but like not terrible. But now they have like painless experience and you can get it done. You probably have to get a lot of appointments.

Speaker 4:
[24:38] Yeah, more sessions, which more money in their pockets, so we'll see. But is it worth it for, yeah, no pain? Sure.

Speaker 3:
[24:44] Well, it's worth it just to not have any maintenance, like anything to do.

Speaker 4:
[24:48] I know, my armpit hair grows so fast.

Speaker 3:
[24:50] Oh yeah, I got my armpits lasered once and I got my hair.

Speaker 4:
[24:52] Yeah, that would be worth it. Same, same.

Speaker 3:
[24:55] And then there's no darkness either, or razor burn.

Speaker 4:
[24:58] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[24:59] Anyway, that's so funny. I thought that was great.

Speaker 4:
[25:00] I loved the snarky PR. That was the first time I've ever seen a snark PR.

Speaker 3:
[25:04] I mean, if he's gonna be publicly saying stuff that they are allowed to publicly defend themselves.

Speaker 4:
[25:08] I know. It was a playful way.

Speaker 3:
[25:10] Yeah, and here's the thing, he didn't have to post that. He thought it was funny, so he posted it.

Speaker 4:
[25:13] Totally, agreed.

Speaker 3:
[25:14] So, you know what? I love it.

Speaker 4:
[25:16] Yeah, I loved it. I loved all the waxers in the comments that were like, it really is inconvenient if you're nine minutes late for an appointment. And I was like, I could see that, you know?

Speaker 3:
[25:24] Sets their whole day off.

Speaker 4:
[25:25] It does, yeah. And like, if we're booked and busy, baby, you better be on time.

Speaker 3:
[25:28] And it's also just like a time that they could have filled that slot, you know?

Speaker 4:
[25:31] Exactly. So, I get it.

Speaker 3:
[25:33] I get it.

Speaker 4:
[25:34] Yeah, I thought it was genius marketing.

Speaker 3:
[25:38] Okay.

Speaker 4:
[25:40] Do you ever feel guilty about being late? I sure do. Moving on to mom guilt. Good.

Speaker 3:
[25:44] Second question.

Speaker 4:
[25:45] Thank you.

Speaker 3:
[25:47] No, actually, I feel like guilt is like my common state. That's something I feel like I'm always just like, oh, I just feel so guilty about that. But you know what? It's okay. We're, everyone's got their things.

Speaker 4:
[25:57] I used to be such a guilty kid to the point where I would guilt myself into throwing up. Like, I would feel so sick to my stomach with guilt that I don't throw up. Happened multiple times. Yeah, I grew out of that. But I think that kept me from doing bad things. I definitely had anxiety. I definitely had anxiety. And my anxiety always would come through as vomiting.

Speaker 3:
[26:17] Well, I thought you also pulled out your hair.

Speaker 4:
[26:19] I did, yes, as a child. Yeah, you know, there are a few things that I like. A few warning signs. A few warning signs. I don't struggle with anxiety now, but I definitely did through high school. Yeah, it's funny. We're past that.

Speaker 3:
[26:32] Interesting looking back on it. Yeah, I feel like mom and guilt kind of, unfortunately...

Speaker 4:
[26:40] They go hand in hand.

Speaker 3:
[26:41] Go hand in hand. And we actually pulled some of you guys on our Always Here podcast Instagram, so thank you to those of you that follow us there. If you don't already follow us there, give us a follow and you can be a part of these episodes. It's really fun to like interact in that way. A whopping 93% of you guys that are moms reported having experienced mom guilt.

Speaker 4:
[27:02] 93%.

Speaker 3:
[27:04] Yeah, I want to talk to the seven that did it, and honestly, I'm like, what does your lifestyle look like?

Speaker 4:
[27:08] Well, I'll show this a little bit later, but I didn't really feel mom guilt when I just had CJ.

Speaker 3:
[27:12] Okay, actually, yeah.

Speaker 4:
[27:13] Yeah, with my first, I didn't really feel it as much.

Speaker 3:
[27:15] Agreed.

Speaker 4:
[27:16] It's now with subsequent children where I feel it more, but I'll talk about that later. So maybe, I mean, maybe they just don't feel good. Maybe they feel very confident in their decisions, which is like always the goal.

Speaker 3:
[27:25] That was actually something I was gonna say too, is that I do feel like you can be confident and feel guilty. Unless I'm delusional, because I feel like I do have a lot of confidence as a mom, but then maybe I'm just like also, I do also feel guilty. Maybe they can both exist.

Speaker 4:
[27:40] I'm the same. Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[27:43] Yeah. And let me tell you, mom guilt can bring you to some wild places and some mental spirals. And I have surely found myself there many times, which we will get to my personal experience in a little bit. But we asked you guys, what is the wildest thing mom guilt has led you to believe? And we got a lot of funny responses. And I'm saying funny. It's obviously like, it probably wasn't funny for you at the time. I know how real it feels in that moment.

Speaker 4:
[28:10] Yes.

Speaker 3:
[28:10] But in hindsight, reflecting on you're like, oh, that was-

Speaker 4:
[28:13] That was just anxiety. That was not real. That was just guilt.

Speaker 3:
[28:16] And you know what? Sometimes you need other moms to be like, hey, by the way, that's not on you.

Speaker 4:
[28:20] Right.

Speaker 3:
[28:20] That was gonna happen regardless. Or like, this is something that's outside of your control. Your kids, like things happen, and it's not actually always your fault. Shocker.

Speaker 4:
[28:29] Totally.

Speaker 3:
[28:30] Shocker. Shocker.

Speaker 4:
[28:31] Who would have thought?

Speaker 3:
[28:33] You wanna read some of them?

Speaker 4:
[28:34] Natalie said that my breast milk is ruining my baby's organs. Turns out she just has a dairy allergy. That's a real one. Like when you're breastfeeding in nursing and you don't know why your kid is upset or uncomfortable or in pain, it does feel like it's your fault.

Speaker 3:
[28:48] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[28:48] When you're the one, they're only eating what you're giving them. I mean, I get that.

Speaker 3:
[28:52] When you give it to them.

Speaker 4:
[28:53] Right.

Speaker 3:
[28:54] Right. Like how you're giving it to them.

Speaker 4:
[28:55] Exactly. There's a lot of stress around that.

Speaker 3:
[28:58] This one just says, Bell's Grace says that I was demon possessed.

Speaker 4:
[29:03] That's what her mom, guilt motor, believed.

Speaker 3:
[29:05] I need more to that story.

Speaker 4:
[29:07] She's like, rebuke that. We rebuke that. Sydney said, my little boy has a speech delay because I let him have light up toys as a baby. Why do I feel that? I'm like, oh, if I give my kid toys that are over stimulating, they're gonna have ADHD, you know?

Speaker 3:
[29:22] I feel like there's so many milestone mom guilt things. Like so much mom guilt associated with baby milestones.

Speaker 4:
[29:29] Yes.

Speaker 3:
[29:29] You're like, oh, they're not doing this because I didn't do something. And it's like, probably, honestly, let's blame marketing on some of that.

Speaker 4:
[29:37] I was gonna say it's marketing.

Speaker 3:
[29:38] Marketing, because they're like, oh, this toy helps with this, or these contrast cards, it's like, sure, I'm sure it helps these things, but babies are gonna develop in the way that they're gonna develop, and not because you use this toy versus this toy, or you didn't use toys, or so many of those. Actually, this past weekend, what was it?

Speaker 4:
[30:00] Oh, yeah, with Vivian sitting up.

Speaker 3:
[30:02] You're like, she's not sitting up because I didn't.

Speaker 4:
[30:04] I'm not giving her enough attention.

Speaker 3:
[30:05] Yeah, and I was like, but you didn't say it as a joke. She said it for real.

Speaker 4:
[30:09] And I was like, I wonder if I'm just not giving her enough attention. I thought like, hold her.

Speaker 5:
[30:12] Here's the wrong guilt, aside to me. I'm like, you think I'm giving Brielle more attention than you're giving to Vivian? There's no way. I'm like, you are such a good mom. There's no, don't compare it to the time span because I'm sure it's more.

Speaker 4:
[30:25] That's sweet, that's sweet. It is, it's just crazy how our minds go there. You know, yeah.

Speaker 5:
[30:30] Especially when you have kids close together, close in age, too. It's like really easy.

Speaker 4:
[30:35] And it's crazy how much a month is different because for context, Abby's daughter Brielle is a month older to the dot than Vivian. And so it's so fun seeing Brielle's milestones because I'm like, oh, that's what I'm left to forward to next month. That's what's coming. Like it's been so fun to watch. And then sometimes, then I'm like, oh my gosh, maybe she's like, she's not sitting up because I'm not practicing her sitting up as much, you know, or, and I just had immediately the guilt. Vivian rolled over before Brielle one time and I was like, it's so babies are gonna do their own thing. And I have to remind myself that. So thank you ladies for reminding me that.

Speaker 3:
[31:04] Cecilia says that letting my nine month old play independently is ignoring him and bad for him all the time.

Speaker 4:
[31:10] I remember feeling that with CJ, cause he loves independent play. And so I was like, I think I'm just a bad mom ignoring him. Like he just was so content.

Speaker 3:
[31:17] He's just having fun, okay.

Speaker 4:
[31:19] Leave him alone. Anna said, if I left a drop of water in a bottle from washing it could kill my baby. That's real. A lot of what?

Speaker 5:
[31:29] Do you remember one time we were sitting in this room before it was this room and Blake was warming up Brielle's bottle and he accidentally like dropped, he had the lid off measuring the temperature of it and he dropped it in. And he came in and he's like, it might have gotten a little water. I'm like, look it up. You looked it up. You're like, it's okay.

Speaker 4:
[31:47] Yeah, I think he's fine. I'm like, it got water. It is. They were like, don't give water to your babies. So they get a drop.

Speaker 5:
[31:53] I feel that one.

Speaker 3:
[31:55] Think about how much water is in your breast milk. It's like 80 percent.

Speaker 4:
[31:59] I know, but no one talks about that.

Speaker 5:
[32:00] No one talks about that.

Speaker 4:
[32:01] They just say, don't give them water.

Speaker 3:
[32:03] Okay. Wow.

Speaker 5:
[32:04] Drown them. No, I don't know how it works.

Speaker 3:
[32:07] This person says, I thought I was going to get CPS called on me because I couldn't breastfeed my first born. Not CPS. You're going far down the spiral.

Speaker 4:
[32:14] Oh my God. Because you couldn't breastfeed my first born. Oh, that mom guilt will get you.

Speaker 3:
[32:19] The breastfeeding will bring you to your knees. It will bring you to your knees.

Speaker 4:
[32:24] Because I work from home and can't spend every minute with my toddler, she isn't as smart or love.

Speaker 3:
[32:29] So much guilt associated with working as a mom.

Speaker 4:
[32:31] It is. That's probably most of it for me.

Speaker 3:
[32:34] I feel like same.

Speaker 4:
[32:35] Lindsay said, if I don't enjoy every moment, I'm ungrateful.

Speaker 3:
[32:39] Oh my gosh. I do that. I tell Matt, I'm like, what would you do for one hour of one-year-old Griffin time back? Or like three-year-old Griffin is gonna cry right now. Because I'm like, oh, don't turn on the show. We're not playing with them. We're having fun. Or yeah, that'll get you. This one says, I thought that if I didn't breastfeed my baby straight from my breast, he wouldn't know what love was. Some people do be kind of saying that though.

Speaker 4:
[33:06] They do, dude. I have so much, I like, I'm all, I agree with breastfeeding. I love it. But the propaganda against moms, I'm like, shh.

Speaker 3:
[33:16] Here's, let me, I have to tell you something. I had to ask my mom how I was fed. Because guess what? I loved my mom.

Speaker 4:
[33:23] Yeah, I was formula fed.

Speaker 3:
[33:24] I was formula fed. I had no clue. Because you know what?

Speaker 4:
[33:27] No.

Speaker 3:
[33:29] There comes a point where it doesn't really.

Speaker 4:
[33:31] I know. I get it. The benefits are clear between formula and breast milk.

Speaker 3:
[33:36] Do it if you can't.

Speaker 4:
[33:36] But if you can't, it's like, why are we making people feel so horrible about it?

Speaker 3:
[33:39] Got to stop that.

Speaker 4:
[33:40] We've got to stop. It's just propaganda.

Speaker 3:
[33:45] Some people really think breast milk can cure cancer.

Speaker 4:
[33:48] I know.

Speaker 3:
[33:49] World peace.

Speaker 4:
[33:50] I know. I tried to put it on some of my skin rashes, and I still had a rash.

Speaker 3:
[33:53] No, it's because I'm using water.

Speaker 4:
[33:56] We are going to get come from in the comic.

Speaker 3:
[33:59] I'm not doing it.

Speaker 4:
[34:00] We are going to get come from.

Speaker 3:
[34:01] No, it's great. I do it.

Speaker 4:
[34:02] We do it.

Speaker 3:
[34:02] I literally actually kill myself to do it.

Speaker 4:
[34:05] Yeah, we actually are dying inside.

Speaker 3:
[34:09] I literally die to do it.

Speaker 4:
[34:13] Yeah, I get it. I get it.

Speaker 3:
[34:14] I will continue to do it. But also we need to stop. At any cost.

Speaker 4:
[34:19] That's like begging you. He's like, please.

Speaker 3:
[34:21] He's like, please, you're going insane. You're not okay.

Speaker 4:
[34:24] Like, get back.

Speaker 3:
[34:26] Can't put this in your mouth. Okay, Lindsey says, if they watch TV, I'm failing slash ruining them.

Speaker 4:
[34:33] I probably believe that a little bit. I know it's not true. Alicia, that letting my baby cry it out will cause autism.

Speaker 3:
[34:42] Oh, wow. I've never even heard that one.

Speaker 4:
[34:45] I mean, your guilt will lead you to believe anything. It's true. I thought one extra minute of sleep would ruin my baby's entire sleep schedule. I mean...

Speaker 5:
[34:56] I sometimes feel that way. I'm like, gotta get her up right. Two hours, no minutes more.

Speaker 3:
[35:02] 60 seconds, man.

Speaker 4:
[35:03] I know. Battle good shot.

Speaker 3:
[35:05] Ally says, I lost my patience one time today, and now I've caused lifelong emotional damage.

Speaker 4:
[35:11] That one's so real because I'm like, I feel like the things that could potentially cause lifelong emotional damage are just things that you're not even thinking about.

Speaker 3:
[35:18] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[35:19] I'm like, I feel like it's gonna, I think I heard this in a sermon in this past year, was like, we're all gonna eventually have a conversation with our kids where they're gonna sit us down and be like, these are the things that you did wrong. And I know, I was like, oh, it's so dark. And obviously that's not our goal. We're actively trying to not cause those things. But then it's like, in those moments, we have to learn how to be humble and learn how to take it. Anyway, it was just, it was really good. I was like, man, that's just so true.

Speaker 3:
[35:42] I've never done that to my parents.

Speaker 4:
[35:44] I feel like me and my sisters have processed a lot with our childhood, but we've had such blessed childhoods.

Speaker 3:
[35:48] Yeah, I can't really think of it. It's not like anything comes to the top of my mind. This one's, because my daughter is adopted, I'll never fully fill the void like her biological mom could. Oh. Because that one's really, you should actually probably see someone. That seems really deep. And probably I'm sure there's a lot of other moms that you could find community with that maybe really or feel the same way or can actually kind of speak into that. Because that's a tough one to carry.

Speaker 4:
[36:13] Yes. And it's not true. And it's just heavy. Yeah. You got to work through that one. Honestly, mom guilt makes me believe that I am the only one that can do anything for him.

Speaker 3:
[36:22] That can happen.

Speaker 4:
[36:22] I feel like I've experienced that a lot in the newborn stage when a lot of it does fall on me. And then I'm like, I have to actively fight against it. I'm like, Caleb is an amazing dad. He just does things differently than me. They're not wrong. They're just different. And I had to learn to like, just shut up and like, let it be. Because I'm like, he's doing it right.

Speaker 3:
[36:39] And I would like, always ask me. And I like, we kind of got in that like pattern because he's like, I want to do it the way you want me to do it. And then I was like, yeah, my way is the only way. And then finally I was like, no, you're fully capable. You can make these, you're the parent. Same. And so you can kind of fall into that pattern where it's like, or if you're like, hey, that's not the right way. It's like, ah. It can be a back and forth like spirals.

Speaker 4:
[37:04] Agreed.

Speaker 3:
[37:05] That's a burden for anyone besides myself to watch my child.

Speaker 4:
[37:09] Oh, yeah. I think I've experienced some of that too. That I failed because my baby chose a bottle over me when I went back to work. Oh, you didn't fail.

Speaker 3:
[37:21] That is not true. That I wasn't a good mom and I should give my daughter up for adoption.

Speaker 4:
[37:27] Major postpartum depression. I was fine. That was something that right before I had CJ, a woman looked at me and she was like, I just want you to know that you could potentially have really crazy thoughts postpartum. I just want you to know that they're not true and you're not crazy if that happens. You just need to tell someone about it. She started telling me some of the thoughts that she had that were like that plagued her when she was postpartum and they were just like really wild things. But her being so vulnerable and honest with me really prepared me well. And thankfully, I didn't experience anything like that. But if you don't have someone that tells you that that could happen postpartum with your hormones and everything, 100% those thoughts could like drive you to feeling guilty, 100%.

Speaker 3:
[38:05] I mean, even postpartum psychosis can like, there's some, like it's not the norm, but it's like good to know those things. So you can be like, okay, because also it's an isolating time, right? You don't have a lot of people in your life at that time. They're like, hey, by the way, that's not right. Or you're not just like having girl chat a lot. So it's hard. It's good to know it in advance because you're like, it could easily spiral out of control on your own.

Speaker 4:
[38:26] Definitely.

Speaker 3:
[38:28] That my literal infant no longer loved me because I started working.

Speaker 4:
[38:31] So many work ones. I literally said, my literal infant. It's like, they have no idea. Time, like frame of reference for time.

Speaker 3:
[38:38] They're asleep.

Speaker 4:
[38:39] They're like little dogs at that point. They have no idea. Freshly postpartum, I cried if I didn't take a pic of my baby every day. Why? I don't even know.

Speaker 3:
[38:47] Actually, that unlocks something for me. I'm so typey, okay? I guess, apparently. I never was the mom that was able to get like, even during my pregnancies, like weekly bump shots. And then it carried in massively into monthly photos of my kids. I know you got them of real. And I tried both times. I was like, this time I'm gonna do it. And I have the pillow and everything. The blanket never happened. And I was so mad. I do still carry guilt about that.

Speaker 4:
[39:16] Really?

Speaker 3:
[39:17] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[39:17] Well, I'll tell you something. I took monthly bump shops with Vivian. And guess what? I have nothing to do with them. I don't know where to put them.

Speaker 3:
[39:23] I don't think the bump shots matter as much. I want the pictures of my kids, but I'm like, dang it.

Speaker 5:
[39:27] I've been doing the pictures of Brielle. I stopped at like two months doing it with like anything specific. Like I had like a little plaque that had the month. I stopped doing it because then that was too much pressure. I was like, oh, if it's not on the right day. I was like, just around.

Speaker 4:
[39:42] Yeah. Look at me, you guys.

Speaker 5:
[39:43] I'm so flexible.

Speaker 3:
[39:46] No, it's that's a good thing to have.

Speaker 4:
[39:48] It's so funny. I remember some of the months, I would forget to take the bump picture. So then the next one, they're like, let me just suck the bump in a little bit. Month six. I did weekly bump pictures.

Speaker 5:
[40:02] I did weekly bump Polaroids, but I don't think I have weeks like 32 through 36.

Speaker 4:
[40:08] Oh my gosh, you did weekly?

Speaker 5:
[40:10] That was a problem. That's kind of cool. It was fun, but I was like, I shouldn't have done it. Cause then I was just, what I did is I had all the extra things. So I had like a sign and then that just gets overwhelming. And I wear the same outfit rather than just being like, take the picture, take the picture, take the picture.

Speaker 4:
[40:25] It's hard, hard to produce, hard to produce this.

Speaker 5:
[40:28] I feel that one of like not sending enough pictures to my family. That's why I would take daily pictures is so that I could send them to my family and I stopped doing that and then felt guilty for not doing that.

Speaker 4:
[40:38] Oh, that's a real one, Abby. That's real. Being on my phone will give my baby brain cancer cause EMFs.

Speaker 5:
[40:46] What is EMFs?

Speaker 4:
[40:48] I don't know. Oh, electromagnetic field.

Speaker 3:
[40:50] Yeah, like radio waves.

Speaker 5:
[40:52] Hello, baby. Isn't there so much in our house already?

Speaker 3:
[40:54] We are so much where I have my phone next to my lab and I'm like, yeah, I'm like not in my garage.

Speaker 4:
[41:01] Yeah, literally.

Speaker 5:
[41:03] I put it in my bra sometimes.

Speaker 4:
[41:04] I'm like, no, gotta move it out of there, baby.

Speaker 5:
[41:07] Can't put it.

Speaker 3:
[41:08] Can't get me over here.

Speaker 4:
[41:09] Can't get me EMF.

Speaker 3:
[41:12] Yeah, no, that's hard. That's a hard one. Oh, this one says that I was making my child sad for going on walks because he couldn't see me.

Speaker 1:
[41:18] Oh, oh, I get that's.

Speaker 5:
[41:21] I didn't understand it. Now I understand.

Speaker 3:
[41:23] New guild unlocked.

Speaker 1:
[41:24] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[41:26] My kids will think I regret them because my husband and I went on a date night. Oh, my kids will think I regret them. Oh, that's people will tell you those type of things. They do.

Speaker 3:
[41:37] They will actually tell you those things.

Speaker 4:
[41:38] And that's crazy. They're like, you should never leave your baby in the first year.

Speaker 3:
[41:42] And you're like, that's 365 days.

Speaker 4:
[41:44] Sweetheart, it's OK if I go on a date.

Speaker 3:
[41:47] They're fine. I need to make all food from scratch.

Speaker 4:
[41:50] Yeah, I believe that for five seconds. That's all I felt guilty. But then CJ just continuously gagged on what I made him. And I was like, you know, I don't feel guilty.

Speaker 3:
[41:58] He wants the process.

Speaker 4:
[41:58] He doesn't want this.

Speaker 3:
[42:00] Screen time equals therapy bill later. Not therapy. Oh, I had so much screen time growing up.

Speaker 4:
[42:07] I was asked.

Speaker 3:
[42:07] I am in therapy.

Speaker 4:
[42:08] I asked my, yeah, wait a minute. Baby got bit by a mosquito, panicked, searched Reddit for three hours, and even said, let my baby get Zika virus. Husband found me sobbing in the closet.

Speaker 3:
[42:20] Don't go on. Okay, if you're worried about it, Reddit should be the last. Don't even Google it, but don't Reddit it. Dang it. Oh, I'm glad your husband was able to intervene there.

Speaker 4:
[42:29] Me too. Thank you, Shopify, for sponsoring this portion of today's episode.

Speaker 3:
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Speaker 4:
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Speaker 3:
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Speaker 4:
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Speaker 4:
[43:59] I can confirm that sound is beautiful. Kale is crazy.

Speaker 3:
[44:02] Kale is really crazy.

Speaker 4:
[44:04] It is crazy, and we all have these stories of just taking us to dark thoughts, deep thoughts, and I feel like, do you feel like guilt and anxiety kind of go hand-in-hand? Are they the same thing? Because a lot of some of these-

Speaker 5:
[44:19] What it's about.

Speaker 3:
[44:20] Anxiety is like diagnosable, I'm like, I don't know if you could diagnose me with guilt.

Speaker 4:
[44:25] Like anxious thoughts from, or does anxiety cause guilt maybe more so?

Speaker 3:
[44:30] I don't know. So like John Delaney has described guilt as like, basically your body's, I'm not gonna do this justice, and this is just how I'm regurgitating it, but like your body's like warning signal that you've like violated your own moral, like your own morals. And so it's like, in that instance, it's not always bad, right? Like so sometimes let me be, so I can tell you some of my mom's guilt, so I'm like, okay, that is actually kind of a good little flag for me. Like if I'm on my phone a lot in front of my kids, and I'll be like, guilty, guilty, guilty. And you're noticing me looking down at a screen, I'm like, hey, that's actually a good flag for me. Like I don't want to be on my phone a lot around the kids.

Speaker 4:
[45:07] Totally.

Speaker 3:
[45:07] So like thank you guilt, that one, I'm going to...

Speaker 4:
[45:10] It's a good one.

Speaker 3:
[45:11] It's a good one. Like there's a time and a place for me to use my phone. I'm not saying I never use my phone around my kids, but especially if I'm just like doing something that's not necessary or texting someone, I'm like, okay, put it down. Or like things like that. But then there's other times where it's like, okay, this is going off. We can look at it and be like, is this something that I need to modify my life around and like believe this? Or is it like, hey, I need someone to speak into this and be like, that's not on you. This isn't real. This is lying to you. It's kind of like feelings in a way.

Speaker 4:
[45:44] Right, sure.

Speaker 3:
[45:45] I think, okay, so for my personal experience, you kind of touched on this. The guilt came in so hot and heavy by the time I had my second kid. So this is where I'm actually now worried down the line.

Speaker 4:
[45:57] Does it get worse with each child?

Speaker 3:
[45:59] Each child.

Speaker 4:
[46:00] Well, you can let us know.

Speaker 3:
[46:01] We'll be spooked by it. Or maybe it's just like, okay, we've already cracked the multiples thing, and it's like now it's about the same.

Speaker 4:
[46:09] Sure.

Speaker 3:
[46:10] But yeah, the multiples is where the mom guilt really came in, I mean, for so many reasons. The first time I remember feeling it, honestly, in a way that took my breath, I was crying, was when Griffin was about, I'm gonna cry again. I'm not even that sad about it anymore. I worked through it. Griffin's about to turn one. I'm putting him down to bed. You guys were at our house, actually, you probably don't remember this. And I was one month away from having Augie. And I was like, I have just given up all my moments of just me and you. Like, there was so much guilt associated with having my second kid. Even though like Matt and I always say, like lightheartedly together, like the best thing we've ever done for them is like give them each other because they just play so well. They have so much fun together. But like in that moment, I literally was like, I just rushed this so much to the point where like Griffin got like no time along with me. Then I had Augie and I'm like, Augie never got us along with him. And that just made it like I remember just to be like, what do I do? I never, I don't even know you as an individual because I'm always having you two together. And that created more guilt. And then I was like, I'm never playing with you guys separately. Like I would try to, but then someone else would need something. You're getting pulled in so many different ways. As soon as you have more than one kid. So that's where guilt started to really spiral for me personally. How do you feel?

Speaker 4:
[47:37] I mean, the minute Vivian was born and we went home, CJ got a hand foot mouth. And that week was so sad to me. Like I remember I would cry a lot talking about this for a good period of time after it happened. Because I just, I remember CJ's face so vividly when he was trying to come near me to like be close to mom and see his sister. And I was like, you can't touch me buddy. Like you can't touch the baby. Because I was so scared of getting sick and her getting sick. And just the look of deeper on his face, I had never seen that before. And I just felt so guilty. So, so, so guilty. I was like, this is horrible. Like he's so excited. It just wants to be sweet and tender. And here I am like shoving him away. So he's losing his mom at this like big transition. So that was the first time I remember, I just sat on the couch and just sobbed and Caleb just rubbed my back. And he was like, I'm sorry, this is so hard. And then I think for those first two months, I had so much guilt. I think this is when I talk about my feeling humbled in those first seasons of going from one to two, was that I just truly felt like I could not take care of both of them. And I felt so guilty. Like I was like, how can I not take care of my own kids? By myself, I just carried so much guilt. Like I should be able to do this. I should be, you know what I mean? And that, those feelings were really like, oof, that was the first time I felt like gripped by guilt.

Speaker 3:
[48:59] And I felt that too. Seriously, I was like, I'm so inadequate. Like I'm supposed to meet their every single need independently. And that's just not true. But it's just even saying that feels scary to even say, because there's just so much dialogue around moms being the ultimate superheroes. And I truly believe that moms make it happen. But I think there's a good side to that, where it's like, okay, this is confidence building, that you were made for this role, you can do this. Like you will make it happen, you will show up for your kids, and you'll meet their needs. But then this darker side of it, where it's like, okay, well, you're actually not perfect. And so there's times where it's like, and also there's no need to do it all by yourself.

Speaker 4:
[49:49] I think about that a lot. I'm like, oh, how beautiful it is that my kids get to be loved by other people, and not just from me. Like they get to feel the love and attention and being taken care of by their grandmas, by their grandpas, by his aunts, and it's just, and his uncles, it's such a sweet, beautiful thing to have other people come alongside you and love on your children and help take care of them too. And so, yeah, that would almost be selfish to expect myself and only want me to be the one that's fully caregiving to them.

Speaker 3:
[50:18] They get so excited to see their grandparents, their cousins, their aunts and uncles. And so, yeah, that's a good point to make too, because it's like, there's a part of it where you're like, okay, well, actually, they want to...

Speaker 4:
[50:31] They want these other people.

Speaker 3:
[50:32] They want other people.

Speaker 4:
[50:33] They actually get sick of me.

Speaker 3:
[50:33] Just like you want community and you want other friends and you wanna get out and do things. And so, there's a level to that as well. I don't know if you're ready. The other type of major mom guilt I feel and still struggle with, but I feel like I've made a lot of progress in is being a mom and also having work. Like having that responsibility. So there's so many sides to that. Guilt, it gets so layered. I'm actually... This is something that I talk about in therapy sometimes, because I'm just like, it's been hard to navigate because I'm like, how do I just... I feel like anytime that I'm away from my kids, I want it to be super justified. I feel like I have to go through all these hoops and jumps, and even then I have to just continue to remind myself, it's okay, it's okay, it's okay, it's okay. And it would get super bad with work specifically because I think that I was lacking confidence in my work that was resulting in like a confusion for me. So let me explain this. So I heard this from Sadie Robertson, who heard it from Dr. Amen, and it sticks with me because, and I've actually revisited this because I'm like, I, this is a good reminder to continuously have. So like from working moms, he said, and I'm once again refer to them because they're going to say it so much more profoundly. But it was something along the lines of guilty moms, and I think it's important to create confused children.

Speaker 4:
[52:00] Yeah, what does that mean?

Speaker 3:
[52:01] So like if I, when I'm like around the kids, like I'm like, oh, I'm like making all these, I'm just gonna sneak away, like do this, kind of multitasking, not being clear or confident about what I'm doing, or like what I feel called to do in my life, then they're just kind of like, my mom's leaving me, why? And also, she feels weird about it, so I feel weird about it. Like it kind of creates, and they're gonna, they could explain this a lot better, but I feel like that, for some reason, that like triggered something in me to learn to talk about my work differently, which then made me feel differently about my work, and then made my kids feel differently about my work. So I think there's an age for this where it's more appropriate, but like I used to like literally be afraid to tell kids, they're like, well, why are we, like why is, they call my mom honey. They're like, why is honey coming over? I'm like, well, cause mommy has, like I would be like, well, cause she's gonna play with you, and like they're gonna, you're gonna do really fun things, and you're gonna nap most of the time, but then you're gonna wake up, and you're gonna play with her, and she's gonna be sad. And I was like, like, okay. Like, and so then I like, well, now I'm like, mommy has to work. I said, do you know why we work? Do you know why, like why adults work and grownups work? And so we have a conversation of like why we work, why it's important to work hard. And then like, I feel like I could expand upon this as I get older. It's like why I feel called to my specific work and like kind of like build that out. It's also good for me to hear saying to my kids. And so now like I have seen a change like in myself, but also in like with my kids. So now they know that like mom works. And for some reason that them knowing that it felt like a secret before. And I think that's the thing too about working from home that has that extra layer. But you kind of feel like you can like sneak it.

Speaker 4:
[53:43] Yeah, you can do both, right?

Speaker 3:
[53:45] You can sneak it. And so now they know that mom works. And that I feel like also they see me in a way it's like, oh, mom contributes to the household in this way. Not that you can't contribute to the household in other ways too. But like knowing that mom and dad are team in the household and like in bringing in the money like that, like funds our lifestyle. And we like talk about why we work and why it's good to have a good work ethic. And like having these conversations has really helped in turn, so many other benefits, but in turn it helped with my own guilt.

Speaker 4:
[54:17] Sure.

Speaker 3:
[54:17] And that was just like a really wordy way of saying that. I'm like, hope that made sense.

Speaker 4:
[54:22] Yeah, it made a lot of sense.

Speaker 3:
[54:23] But now they tell me, and so we had a conversation. This is like my infamous story I've told about my son a lot because I thought it was really funny because once I started making these changes, I think he started to think about work, what people do for work a lot. We talk about it sometimes at careers. And the other day, he wanted something. This was a couple months back. And I was like, hey, we gotta have a conversation about things cost money and we have to, it's not like there's an endless supply of everything. Because I would always tell them if they broke a toy, I was like, no big deal, we'll get another one. And I was like, well, wait a minute. That's not life. There's not an endless supply of everything for anyone at any time. So of course mistakes happen and we're not going to make you feel bad about them. But I don't know that I needed to teach him that there's an infinite supply of everything.

Speaker 4:
[55:10] We still need to take care of our things.

Speaker 3:
[55:11] Yeah, there's a layer to that. And so then he told me one day in the car, a little while later, this was related to going to Disney World. And he was like, mom, I need a camera and a pewter. And I was like, why, buddy? First of all, I couldn't figure out what he was saying because when he says camera, it sounds like grandma.

Speaker 4:
[55:29] I was like, grandma and a pewter.

Speaker 3:
[55:31] And I was like, what do you need? And then in his head, that was work. He wanted to do like a camera and have a computer so he could work and get something that he wanted. And it was a really, Abby was like trying to book him for photos.

Speaker 5:
[55:43] Yeah, I was like, you have a little camera, right? Oh, if you take pictures of me, I'll give you $5. He goes, three.

Speaker 4:
[55:50] Oh, what a good negotiate. He gave you the family discount.

Speaker 3:
[55:54] Friends and family.

Speaker 5:
[55:55] And I didn't bring it up because he forgot to bring his camera. I was like, I'm not going to.

Speaker 3:
[55:59] His camera has been broken.

Speaker 4:
[56:00] So it has since broken.

Speaker 3:
[56:02] And I'm actually sad about it because all of his little pictures on it.

Speaker 4:
[56:05] So cute. They're probably gone.

Speaker 3:
[56:08] That thing is broken.

Speaker 4:
[56:09] That's hard.

Speaker 3:
[56:10] Anyway, all that to say, it opened up a lot of like, I have always told myself, I want to be honest when I talk to my kids about things, like when we talk about food, I'm like, oh, you can't have that food because it's a choking hazard. And then he literally took it in the bag of suckers to the employee at the Dollar Tree. I was like, is this a choking hazard? And I'm like, you can't have this because it has alcohol, you can't have this because of it. I've always wanted to be honest. I was like, why was I tiptoeing around this subject so much? And it was because of my own guilt around doing something that I should not feel guilt for. But there is just like this whole thing.

Speaker 4:
[56:45] Totally.

Speaker 3:
[56:46] I'll let you.

Speaker 4:
[56:46] I feel like it makes a lot of sense hearing you say that because I think outside of moms or mothering or anything, anytime that there's not clarity, it is confusing. When you think about dating, you want to have clear expectations and boundaries and marriage. So that makes a lot of sense hearing you talk about the confused children part. I think that was a part of the quote that always was like, I guess I just didn't understand. So that makes a lot of sense and it resonates a lot. I feel like for me, this area is something that before with CJ, I could always fit my work in. He took a really long, he would take a four hour nap.

Speaker 3:
[57:18] Crazy. It's a nice rest.

Speaker 4:
[57:20] He did that for like 18 months. So I would just work in his nap. That was really, really easy. Well, now obviously he's getting older and now we have Vivian. And to the bat, the juggling, I couldn't just fit it in these nice little neat hours where he was away and I was alone and could focus and do these things and he wouldn't see it. Well, now it's like, okay, we've talked a lot about this, having to put in systems into place. And it's been way better now that I'm like, hey, it's Monday. So it's a work day for mom. I'm like, grandma's gonna come over and play. And Wednesday's are my work days. And if I don't say it confused, he is also not confused. And he doesn't ask. He'll be like, mom, are you working right now? And he's also like, he's respectful of that time. It's not like he's at my leg begging me to play when I'm like, hold on, buddy, just let me do this on my phone one second. I'm so sorry I'm coming. It's like he has these clear boundaries too and knows what to expect. And I feel like that has been a real game changer in our house is just having the expectations. So you've helped a lot in helping me navigate and figuring those things out. Because I think at first it is really hard to figure out what is gonna work for you and what's not. And I had a lot of guilt around that of like I'm failing. And I don't know how to set these. I don't know what's gonna work and what's not gonna work. And I don't know. It's all confusing and it's hard. And I think a lot of it is trial and error, specifically in this area of work and schedules. But yeah, definitely guilt there.

Speaker 3:
[58:38] For what it's worth at the beginning, guilt was making me like not ask for help because I was like, I'm just gonna multitask this whole thing and I'm gonna be 100% mom and 100% work. And that's gonna, that's naturally gonna work, of course. And then no, of course it didn't work. Like that made me guilty in a different way because then I was like on my phone or doing things when I was like, okay, they're looking at me like, why is she always on this device? They have no idea what I'm doing.

Speaker 4:
[59:07] Totally.

Speaker 3:
[59:07] I'm certainly not telling them that I'm working because that felt shameful. Like, and so having those like clear boundaries of like, okay, one to five, Monday through Fridays, mommy's work hours, you're still going to be with like someone, you're still in the same house as me for heaven's sake. Like you're literally still, you're like 10 feet from me. You come in a lot. Like, and so like they know that I'm here, but then yeah, having those like boundaries and like those parts of my mind also just made, in turn made my work so much better because then I was like, okay, now this is go time. This gets a hundred percent of me right now. And then as soon as it hits five, this, you guys will get a hundred percent of me. And so it just created so much more confidence in both areas and counteracted guilt in both areas so much. And that was a process because I would tell you, it probably took like 18 months of having two kids. So, and I had already had a kid before that. So I was like, I was just feeling confused all the time. So, so much with work.

Speaker 4:
[60:09] I mean, we all go through it and ultimately it makes us stronger, better, more equipped and more resilient women, you know? It's like we have to figure things out and we want to do what's best for our family. And so like having to navigate, how do we do this in a way that's going to set our kids up for success first and foremost? Like, you know, it's like, we're gonna do what we can. And in the end, on the other side of it, once we figure it out, like you're saying, we do all come out confident, more clear and like, it's, you feel more loved. Like if, I even felt this with Caleb, if he's working in the kitchen and I'm in there cooking, I'm like, hey, don't work here because I want to talk to you and hang out with you. But you're focused on work. And like, I want you to just go in the bedroom and close the door and be out of here. Yeah. So that I'm not like, oh, he's not listening to me or whatever. And it's the same way with our family.

Speaker 3:
[60:58] That's a really good parallel because I feel that way too. I'm like, okay, we'll just get out of here. Just get out and do it and then come back and then like, give us your full attention.

Speaker 4:
[61:08] Yeah. It's like really just what our family wants is our full attention.

Speaker 5:
[61:10] I just implemented a new thing actually starting this week is obviously the work and the mom guilt side of it and having an almost eight month old, so she's demanding more of my attention and she's a mom's girl. Like she just wants me all the time. And so I went and on the side of it of budget friendly situations too when you're working full time and from home and not wanting to spend a bunch of money on sitters and nanny and daycare and all the things, we are having a sitter come on Tuesdays and Thursdays during her wake window in the middle of the day. So from 12 to 3 when she's awake and that's like the middle of my workday I was having to do both. And just the thought, we actually have just had a different schedule this week, but just the thought of knowing I'm going to have someone to watch Braille those days. My Sunday nights are so much nicer. I'm not so anxious about coming to work on Monday because of these things or it's scheduling time, but even just for the different things we do, it's like, okay, they know I'm available these times to come do things in person. Like it just, you working from one to five makes a clear expectation that if I text you before then, I'm never expecting a response. It's just clear expectations with your team, which is like cool too, if you're able to do that. So especially with having a sitter during their nap time, it just stinks. You're like, I don't need someone here. So having someone during the wake window has been really helpful.

Speaker 4:
[62:37] Yeah, that's a good tip. And hearing you say that, it's like, I think we've talked about this, but everyone thrives in routine, and kids thrive in routine. And obviously there's like flexibility within the routines, but also within traditions. And so it's like, okay, we know, I think that's like the positive parallel, like the routine. But okay, we know Tuesdays and Thursdays, mom can just jam pack, which needs to get done on those days. And it could be really effective, really efficient. But then on the same time, it's like your kids kind of have the same expectation. And then you can have, I think we were trying to implement more tradition. And it's like, that's gonna counteract some of the harder things that maybe they don't wanna do. It's like, what they're really gonna remember is pizza night and like the fun things and family dinners. And every morning, these days we go to the park, whatever. It's like, those are the things they're gonna remember, not really more so that like mom had a babysitter for three hours during the day on Tuesdays.

Speaker 5:
[63:28] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[63:28] No.

Speaker 4:
[63:28] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[63:29] Seriously. And some of this stuff can really last a long time, this guilt. So we actually had, in preparation for this episode, had planned to like ask our own moms about mom guilt and their experience with it. I accidentally made my mom cry.

Speaker 4:
[63:44] Really?

Speaker 3:
[63:44] Immediately. And I knew it was gonna, I knew what her guilt was. She feels so much guilt about putting me, she worked full time with me. Like, I think she had six weeks leave after having me. And then same with my brother. She had Blake over summer break, so she had a little bit more time with him. I mean, it was back to regular with us as infants. And so she has so much guilt about that, still to this day. And it's like, I hate that she carries that. And I just, they call it, what is it? The Great American Mom Work Dilemma, crisis, guilt train or whatever. But basically, you work, you feel guilty, you don't work, you feel guilty. There's just, there's no way around it. And unfortunately, I'm like, mom, I didn't realize you still felt this way. She was like, yeah, I still do it. And I said, what made it feel better? She's like, no, I still feel so guilty. And then she was saying, but once I was in school, then she knew that I was like, where other kids were, I guess, even moms that stayed home, would bring their kids to school. And so-

Speaker 4:
[64:53] It was on the same, you're on now on the same playing field with all the other kids.

Speaker 3:
[64:56] And then she chose to be a teacher because she'd have the same schedule as us when we were in school. So she was ultimately still making a sacrificial decision. She made her career option based on one that would still revolve around her children's lifestyle, essentially, because she was actually even my third grade teacher in school.

Speaker 4:
[65:14] I'm surprised they allowed that.

Speaker 3:
[65:17] Third grade, man.

Speaker 4:
[65:17] It's so sweet.

Speaker 3:
[65:18] Yeah, no, it was really sweet. And I loved it. And I feel like every kid would be different. It probably would have been different if I was any older than third grade, but we loved it. I don't think it worked out as great for Blake. Probably not.

Speaker 5:
[65:29] Surely not.

Speaker 4:
[65:29] He was more disruptive. He took a little bit more liberties. He was telling your mom no.

Speaker 5:
[65:35] He probably wasn't disruptive, but he was definitely probably calling her mom.

Speaker 3:
[65:39] Oh, I called her mom. Everyone called her mom.

Speaker 4:
[65:41] How did that work with homework with your mom? Did she help you?

Speaker 3:
[65:44] I mean, third grade. I don't even remember. I actually probably didn't really.

Speaker 4:
[65:49] Did you get homework? I guess maybe fourth.

Speaker 3:
[65:51] They give you homework, but I don't think it's very serious.

Speaker 4:
[65:54] Serious.

Speaker 3:
[65:55] I don't know.

Speaker 5:
[65:56] She grades papers. You do your homework.

Speaker 4:
[65:57] I love school.

Speaker 3:
[65:58] I was like, please let me just do it all.

Speaker 4:
[65:59] Can I do extra credit?

Speaker 3:
[66:01] Yeah, seriously.

Speaker 4:
[66:01] I was like that kid.

Speaker 3:
[66:02] That was that kid.

Speaker 4:
[66:03] I actually was too in elementary. I loved it too. It was so fun.

Speaker 3:
[66:06] It was my culture. So she still, and I was like, mom. And then the other kind of guilt that my mom carried a lot, which I did not realize was financial guilt. She was like, I feel bad that we weren't able to afford certain things for you. And I was like, mom, I had no idea that you felt that way. And I said, I literally wanted for nothing. And guilt is one of those things where it's like, I feel like, I'm like, as much as I tell her that I didn't even realize what we were lacking or that we were, I didn't think about, I didn't compare my situation or what we had to other people at all. I feel like I could say that as much as I, as often as I can, and she still wouldn't, it wouldn't, that's the thing about guilt. You know, it's like, it's an internal thing that you can't, that you have to resolve within yourself.

Speaker 4:
[66:53] And that's so, that's, that's, that's deep.

Speaker 3:
[66:57] That's deep right there.

Speaker 4:
[66:58] That's some deep stuff. My mom's was actually, she gave some good examples that were outside of, I feel like work is such a common one that most, I think most people probably feel. My mom said that she felt, she feels guilty that she put so much pressure on us to look perfect for holidays, and get the, she made such a big deal about creating the perfect image around these, specifically she said holidays, but some of these big life moment things, which I think a lot of us can, I think a lot of us experienced that, when to get the perfect picture, so that we have the perfect memory of the perfect day. And that's a pressure that we put on ourselves, and then it's easy to feel guilty if that doesn't happen. And she feels bad that she had those expectations. She's like, I wish I would have just chilled, and just enjoyed those moments more.

Speaker 3:
[67:43] That's a good call out, as a mom now to pay special attention to that.

Speaker 4:
[67:47] Yes. And then the second one, which this I thought was interesting, she said, seeing what you cook for your kids, and what you guys all make, sometimes I feel guilty that I would just make you boiled noodles with Parmesan cheese and canned green beans.

Speaker 3:
[67:59] It was the 90s.

Speaker 4:
[68:00] And I was like, mom, that's really sweet, but now she's in retrospect having guilt. It's a comparison. But I'm like, mom, I literally made frozen chicken nuggets for CJ for like six months. So it's not like we're doing any different. And I'm like, we still love Parmesan cheese and noodles. So I actually am grateful for the ideas. But yeah, it's just like, it never stops. It kind of is how we're talking. So I was really grateful that she shared. I feel like we had, it was kind of a rushed conversation. I'm sure we'll talk more about it after this. But yeah, we just all experience it just in different ways.

Speaker 3:
[68:37] Yeah. That's interesting. The thought of it happening in retrospect.

Speaker 4:
[68:39] Yeah. Oh, it'll never end.

Speaker 3:
[68:42] It'll never end. That is so interesting because our in-laws, I give them so much credit. They're very like, what's the word for it? Like reflective on their roles as a parent when their kids were young, like always asking like, what are things that we could have done better? And that's a very, they have so much humility, asking a question like that.

Speaker 4:
[69:04] They're some of the most humble people that are met.

Speaker 3:
[69:05] Like, I'm like, that is something that I'm like, I don't know if I will ever feel brave enough to like, ask that question or like receive that feedback from my own children. It's like, I would, that would make me quick to be like defensive. I'd be like, well, wait a minute, we did a lot for you, mister.

Speaker 4:
[69:19] Like, you know?

Speaker 3:
[69:20] And so I just like respect them asking that so much. And they're like, and trust me, Caleb and Matt will both be honest.

Speaker 4:
[69:29] They will.

Speaker 5:
[69:30] I'm so curious about that too, because usually when you ask that type of a question, it's because it's something that you're probably going to do again, that you would like feedback on. It's like, why do they need that feedback?

Speaker 6:
[69:39] I don't know. No, no, no.

Speaker 4:
[69:40] They just love feedback.

Speaker 3:
[69:42] Just love feedback.

Speaker 4:
[69:44] And they always receive it well.

Speaker 3:
[69:46] They always receive it well.

Speaker 4:
[69:47] I know. I've learned a lot from, from watching that within their family. I guess I don't want to leave this conversation on kind of like a negative note. We don't, we don't really have like a solution or...

Speaker 3:
[69:59] Well, this is where I was going to kind of bring it back to. Guilt doesn't always have to be a bad thing.

Speaker 4:
[70:03] Right.

Speaker 3:
[70:03] Like sometimes I think guilt should be honored, like for a moment of like, okay, let's hold this for what it was. I'm noticing that I'm starting to feel some of these feelings arise around this and like actually sitting and reflecting that on them in the moment. And being like, okay, maybe even like invite another mom or your spouse, or just depending on what, what it is. And just like letting someone like actually be like, okay. Like, like we said, it is an internal dialogue, also like those thoughts can spiral until you like let someone else in on it. And I'm guessing 90 percent of the time other mom will be like, I've been there too. I felt that too. And then also just that aspect of like, okay, we're all carrying like similar burdens. Like, are we all just terrible moms? Or is this just something that we're going to have to carry with us? And we also just need to just carry it lightly at times. Or sometimes it's like, hey, thanks for flagging that one. I don't want to continue to do this with my next child or tomorrow, even like, I don't want to continue to do this type of thing. Or like, I think there's so many things where it's like, okay, hey, I didn't react well to that. I don't want to do that again. And then also just like, like using that as an opportunity to also have a conversation with your kids like, hey, you know what? Mommy's making mistakes too. I'm sorry about that. I don't want to do that again. And so it doesn't always have to be a bad thing, but then also just evaluate that.

Speaker 4:
[71:26] And I feel like my biggest solution like through moving through guilt is talking to people about it.

Speaker 3:
[71:31] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[71:31] I think that's the biggest thing. And voicing it out loud, like telling Caleb my exact thoughts and exactly how I'm thinking of them, not sugarcoating them or dancing around them or making a lot of them, if they feel heavy and like talking to you guys, I talk to you guys about them a lot and getting feedback. And I think being open to the feedback, like sometimes it's like, hey, actually, yeah, like you've told me like, hey, you need to put systems in place with work. And that was so helpful to hear. And so just being receptive of the feedback and knowing that's like always for our, your good and your benefit. And it's like, yeah, it's a good thing to reflect on it. Exactly what you're saying.

Speaker 3:
[72:05] Yeah. And entrusted community too though. Cause it's like, sometimes I like, I know who I need to go to if I just need someone to be like, you're amazing.

Speaker 4:
[72:14] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[72:14] You are so special and beautiful and perfect. Then you need to make no changes. And then also like, okay, I want to go to this person because likely they're going to have something I could do differently.

Speaker 4:
[72:25] They're going to be good honesty.

Speaker 3:
[72:26] And like, they're going to be good honesty. And I need to hear, I need to steal myself.

Speaker 4:
[72:31] You have got your like, fun truth, your truth, your light truth, and then your hard truth, people. Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[72:35] And then I'm like, Matt will always be like, you're awesome.

Speaker 4:
[72:38] And I'm like, come on, thank you. I need to do that sometimes.

Speaker 3:
[72:43] I feel like I go to Matt a lot about body image things or like guilt I have related to like my looks, which I'm like, I don't even know if that's necessarily guilt, but like intrusive thoughts or like feelings, things I'm starting to believe about myself, and then like mom things with other moms or work things with other people that are in the same field.

Speaker 4:
[73:01] So I'm such a passive person. I always have to, I always front Caleb on, I always warn him on the front angle. I just want validation. And then I just kind of dance around. I'm like, I just need you to validate me right now and then tell me I'm pretty. And then I'll kind of dance around what I'm, and I'm like, oh yeah, today I had just in my hair. And he's like, you're beautiful. You know, like I'm always trying to like sneakily say, I feel like sometimes I try to manipulate him into saying what I want to hear. You know what I mean? But now I'm just like, I need to be upfront. I am upfront. I'm just like, I just, I need you to validate me.

Speaker 3:
[73:33] I need you to validate me right now. Maggie and Matt and I don't take a compliment. He's like, just take the compliment. I'm like, well, gosh, I don't believe you. So what am I supposed to do about that? I'm just simply don't believe you.

Speaker 4:
[73:45] You're like, I know you're lying to me right now. Which he's not, he never is.

Speaker 3:
[73:49] He doesn't lie to me, I know that too.

Speaker 5:
[73:50] When I like complain about my body or like different things, he's like, it makes him frustrated. He's like, it's not true. Stop, like he's like, stop saying that. Literally.

Speaker 3:
[74:00] I'm like, do you want to just be a woman for one day?

Speaker 5:
[74:03] Look at yourself in the mirror.

Speaker 4:
[74:04] Turns it into a male versus female crisis. I was like, you're beautiful.

Speaker 3:
[74:10] Try being a woman.

Speaker 4:
[74:14] You don't know what a life I live in.

Speaker 3:
[74:17] So yes, like I'm just saying, I guess if you hear anything from this is that like, we're three moms.

Speaker 4:
[74:24] We're with you.

Speaker 3:
[74:25] We're with you. We experience it too. And some of these things we can laugh about and some it's like, okay.

Speaker 4:
[74:32] Some of it's serious, some of it's funny. And some of it, it's just all relatable.

Speaker 3:
[74:36] It's all relatable.

Speaker 4:
[74:37] And this was a messy conversation about mom, you know.

Speaker 3:
[74:38] This was messy for sure.

Speaker 4:
[74:40] But I'm glad we talked about it. Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[74:42] I'm glad we talked about it. Thank you to Needed for sponsoring this portion of today's episode.

Speaker 4:
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Speaker 3:
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Speaker 4:
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Speaker 3:
[75:19] And the fact that practitioners are recommending it also speaks volumes because sometimes I'm like asking my doctor, I'm like, which one to take? And they're like, oh, well, you know, and it's just a little bit of that. I'm like, there's so many things to consider. It's nice that it's one multivitamin that fits all your needs.

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Speaker 3:
[76:08] Let's listen to you guys and hear what you have to say. We have a voicemail segment each week if this is your first time tuning in. You can call the number 602-456-9690 and we get to hear from you. Any curious questions, any serious questions, any, hey, we'll accept comments, feedback as well. So you can call in and we're going to listen to two or three today.

Speaker 6:
[76:36] Hi, Abby, Abby and Addie. My name is Bree. I love, love, love the podcast. You guys are such an inspiration to me. Me and my boyfriend want to get engaged here in a couple of months. And so I would love to hear you guys' engagement stories and all of your emotions leading up to that. And if you guys kind of knew when he was going to propose. So that's the podcast. Bye.

Speaker 4:
[76:58] So we never get to talk about this. This is fun. You go first. You go first.

Speaker 3:
[77:03] Well, ours was fairly simple. So I guess as a kid, I always thought that like when some guy, like when the guy proposed, that the girl was just caught off guard.

Speaker 4:
[77:14] I used to think that too.

Speaker 3:
[77:15] Like they hadn't. And then as an adult, I was like, Oh, no, you pick up the ring together. Well, I was kind of just like, you don't want to be caught off guard by a question like that. Gosh, that's pretty serious. I want to be a part of that.

Speaker 4:
[77:27] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[77:27] And then it's just more of a romantic gesture that he's the one who does it. You know what I mean?

Speaker 4:
[77:31] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[77:31] And so we had had so many conversations like that. We had like sought mentors. We had like had, we got married really young. So we'd have a lot of conversations with family and parents for like a year leading up to this point. And then we even did like pre-engagement counseling, which I mean, that's pretty thorough. I feel like it read books. Like we had done all these things. And so then Matt had said, he's like, I don't want to be engaged very long. He's like, I only want to be engaged for six months. And so I was like, well, I know we're not getting married at Christmas time. It was summer. And so I was like not actually expecting it, but I knew that we were going to get married. I had known that for a long time at that point already. And so then we, I was visiting him in Florida, where he was there for the summer. And we went to Disney to celebrate his birthday because I actually love Disney too. And it was mostly for me. And so then he, the morning of we were like, we got there right before the park opened. And Matt's like, I want to take a picture. And I was like, we have to go straight to the rides because you don't know how these wait, these wait times are going to get so long. You don't know Disney, but I know Disney. We cannot be taking a picture. We will do it later. There's why do you want to take a picture? Like I was so confused. And he's like, I really want to take a picture. I really want to take a picture. And so he literally finally gets a Disney photographer that is just unassuming. No one knows what's going on. Hands his phone that's already recording to a random Disney park attendee. And I put my arm around him and he is trembling. Oh, he was shaking. Oh my God. So much like what in the world is wrong with him? Yeah. And because once again, he said so many times he wanted to be engaged for six months. Then he gets down on one knee. And I was, I have no idea what he said. He said that the night before he asked one of his buddies, like what he should say, cause he was like trying to write it out. And he's like, dude, just speak from the heart. So then he's like said something. And then I was like, and then we feasted up. And the video is so funny, cause I literally just hugged him, we don't kiss. And then I said, thank you. I was so caught off guard. I was genuinely like, and no one believes me. My mom was like, no, you knew. I was like, I didn't even know that he had brought this ring to Florida. I didn't even know, we had looked at rings. I didn't even know that we had, this was the first one I tried on.

Speaker 4:
[79:57] I don't even know if Matt told us that he was proposing.

Speaker 3:
[80:00] I don't know if my family knew. Like, I think it was an impulse thing. I mean, they knew that we were going to get engaged.

Speaker 4:
[80:05] Yeah, he had talked about it.

Speaker 3:
[80:05] I don't think they knew what was happening that day.

Speaker 6:
[80:07] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[80:08] So I'm like, when my mom's like, you knew. I'm like, did you?

Speaker 6:
[80:11] Like, and so-

Speaker 4:
[80:13] Who knew?

Speaker 3:
[80:13] Then we were engaged for like literally over a year.

Speaker 4:
[80:16] Yeah, sorry about that.

Speaker 3:
[80:16] And so I was like, what in the world? But it was so, I like looked back at it. It was like so sweet, because the rest of the day we were just giddy. Like we were just had so much fun at Disney, like going on rides, and I was just like beside myself, like excited. And then we actually had no family or friends there. And it was just really honestly special. It was simple. I feel like now I don't know, like I'm sure if I got engaged at 27, it would look differently. But that was perfect for getting engaged at 19, honestly. Like I was like, this is like the start of our life together. So of course it's just, it's special that it's just us together. And we'll have everyone at the wedding day, and everyone at all the receptions to follow. But it was kind of fun that it was just us, honestly. I always thought that everyone would be there, but the way that it just worked out with just us was really special.

Speaker 4:
[81:03] Yeah, so intimate.

Speaker 3:
[81:04] Long winded story.

Speaker 4:
[81:05] In a memory just for you guys.

Speaker 3:
[81:06] I remember every detail of that because I was literally just like, it's like so random. I just remember him shaking. He's like, I was so nervous. I was like, we had only talked about getting married for like three years straight.

Speaker 4:
[81:20] We'd only talked about it for three years.

Speaker 3:
[81:22] Yeah, I was going to say yes. He's like, yeah, I knew you were going to say yes. I just was so, I think the moment was so big. For sure. The thing that he was asking.

Speaker 4:
[81:31] It was a surprise. It's the biggest surprise of your life. Of course he was nervous. That's sweet. Caleb was, he did like a big gesture. Caleb is kind of a big gesture romantic guy. And this was really fun. It had been our six year dating anniversary. At this point, Caleb had previously talked to my dad and asked if he could take my hand in marriage, the formal way. And my dad had asked him to wait because my sister was getting married that September. And he said, will you please wait to propose until after her wedding? So that was in the summertime. And Caleb waited. So really the week after my sister got married, I know Caleb had another conversation with my parents about when this was gonna happen. And it was October. It was our six year dating anniversary. I thought he was gonna pop the question at dinner. I remember being so sad because he left the next day to go back to school, and he didn't ask the question. I remember telling him that night, like, I'm so sad that we didn't get engaged this weekend. Well, the next day, I think he leaves for to go back to school. He was a senior. I had already graduated. And I had a Bible study that night. And that night, we had decided to do a bonfire as a group instead of going to someone's house. And so I get in the car with some of them. We're carpooling. They drive me to this park kind of near our homes. And we pull up, and I see this guy in a suit, just sitting on a rock. And I'm like, that's really weird. And I'm just looking at him. And then I realized that it's one of Caleb's best friends that lives in Kansas City, and his name is Charlie. And I rolled on the window and I go, Charlie, why are you here? And then it hit me and I go, Charlie, why are you here? And I get out of the car, they pull me up. He's sitting there on this rock. Charlie reads me a letter that he wrote to me about just like watching Caleb and I date, and just how excited he is for us to get engaged. And then I walk, he gives me a flower and I led through this path along this park. And it's all of Caleb's groomsmen lined up. And so it's like stop by stop. And they all read me a letter that they wrote me. And then at the end is Caleb on this stage in the park. And it had lights and roses everywhere. And it's dark at this point, so it's like the sun had set and everyone's in suits and I'm in my pajamas, not wearing a bra. Because I was the only one not informed of this party going down. Which is hilarious, because all these pictures, everyone's dressed so nice. And then I'm literally in sweatpants and a sweatshirt. And Caleb gets down on one knee and he asks. And behind the stage is like a brick wall. And it's all of our family and our friends. And you guys were there, which I'm so happy you were there.

Speaker 3:
[84:05] Well, Matt wrote a letter to you.

Speaker 4:
[84:07] Yeah, yeah, yeah, he did. Yeah, it was Matt and Josh. And then Caleb's grooms are best man. So it was everyone, which was so sweet. I'm sure I still have all those letters written. I think they just read them to me off their phone. But we have it recorded, which is really fun. And then we had a dinner party afterwards with everybody. It was so special. It was the most romantic thing ever.

Speaker 3:
[84:29] That was fun.

Speaker 5:
[84:29] Yeah. That's sweet.

Speaker 3:
[84:31] Abby, you wanna share yours?

Speaker 5:
[84:32] Oh, sure. Let's see, mine's kind of funny. Mine was on a Sunday. Let's backtrack a little bit, actually. I knew we were going to get engaged. I knew he had the ring. This was he probably got the ring in June. It was also the first one I tried on. I'm like, and it was one that I was like about the first one. Yeah, I knew I had always wanted like this style of ring. And I was trying to not go with one that was like cool at the time. Like I was like, I'll just go with the one I've always wanted, even though like maybe a different one was piquing my interest. So and I still love it. But he got the ring in like June. And then he didn't propose until the end of September because he wanted our, I wanted our friends to be there. And I think he knew that too. And so we waited till everyone came back for school. And then it was a Sunday. I was at church. I was like, when the heck is he going to do it? Also at this time, Taipei person, we've already booked our wedding venue.

Speaker 4:
[85:30] Oh, you booked your venue before you were engaged? Oh my gosh, I love that.

Speaker 5:
[85:34] I knew where I wanted to get married. So I booked it. And so it was already booked. So I was like, what the heck? We gotta get things moving so I can plan a wedding. I was like, I won't do anything else until I'm engaged. And then Sunday at church, I'm checking his location. I'm like, where is he? Because he didn't go to the same service as me, which is not normal. And then the girls next to me afterwards were like, we saw that you just kept checking his location. Luckily he was just at his house until after church. After church, my girls, we went and we took photos because we were taking roommate photos for the coop where we lived. And then as we're walking back, I text my friend Abby, because in the morning I texted her and I had said, I think I'm getting engaged today. We're walking back to the car. I said, it's not happening. Cause I thought it was going to happen when we were taking photos with everyone. Like everyone would think, no, I get blindfolded and then get thrown in the car. And they're like, you are getting initiated to the coop. So that we do a new initiations.

Speaker 3:
[86:34] Which is actually a thing.

Speaker 5:
[86:35] Which is, it is a thing for this home. So I knew that had also needed to come cause I hadn't been initiated into the home yet. Backstory, Abby also lived at this home before me.

Speaker 3:
[86:46] Okay, you Hazers.

Speaker 4:
[86:47] No, I'm just kidding.

Speaker 3:
[86:48] It is, that's what it is.

Speaker 5:
[86:50] So we, I don't even know we went into a gas station. I had to get some things in order and get food from some restaurant and went up to, I had to dance somewhere. And then they were taking, we were like, we're going home. And I'm like, we're really still. I'm blindfolded, but I'm like, we are not that far from home, surely. And then we pull up and a mint goes in my mouth cause they were feeding me random food.

Speaker 4:
[87:16] They shoved a mint in your mouth, the girl is watching out.

Speaker 5:
[87:18] They shoved a mint in my mouth and I was like, oh, okay. And I like squeezing their hands. And then Blake had set up at a park in Springfield, a blanket, it was under this, like, pergola. And he set up a blanket and like a picnic basket and he proposed and said some things. I don't really remember all the things. What I do remember is he said, Satan's gonna hate us, like two or three times. And I was like, that's so sweet.

Speaker 1:
[87:45] That's so sweet.

Speaker 5:
[87:47] He was also shaking too. So then we got engaged, went back to the coop and everyone was there. All my friends, the family was there. My sister had come from Dallas, and we just had a fun engagement party afterwards.

Speaker 4:
[88:00] Sweet. I'd actually never heard that story.

Speaker 5:
[88:03] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[88:03] Oh, that's so fun.

Speaker 5:
[88:05] It's always a fun one to look back, cause it was also when I got initiated. So that was kind of funny.

Speaker 3:
[88:09] The fact that those are catatched.

Speaker 4:
[88:12] I know. They're like, oh, not two birds, one stone.

Speaker 5:
[88:14] Yeah, exactly. She'll never know.

Speaker 4:
[88:16] That's so fun. And it's fun that your friends are like all in on it. You know, that makes it so fun.

Speaker 5:
[88:21] Yes, because I also was begging them, I'm like, guys, you have to figure out when he's proposing because get him on it. Yeah, I can't remind him anymore that he needs to do this.

Speaker 3:
[88:28] I can't remind him anymore.

Speaker 6:
[88:31] Hi, friends. I have been a long listener for five ever, but we are friends. I mean, you are my best friends. But I have four little girls, one just turned 12 and we're about to start having the sex talk. Did your mom talk to you about sex? Did she not? What would you want to do? How should I do it? How in depth should I go? Thanks for listening.

Speaker 4:
[88:56] Love you.

Speaker 6:
[88:56] Bye.

Speaker 4:
[88:58] Love you. Bye. I love that. No, I never had a formal sex talk. My mom just kind of took things as they came. I remember asking, I'll never forget sixth grade, learning some things on the track and go going to my mom. And I remember she was in the bathroom and the toilet. And I'm like talking to her through the door and I'm like, mom, what's... Asking her what foreplay basically is and all these deep things. If you ask my mom, she gave us a sex talk. If you ask us, we never had a sex talk. So I don't know if I'm one to speak in on this.

Speaker 3:
[89:30] I actually brought it up with my parents as an adult. I was like, you know you never did that right? They're like, yeah.

Speaker 4:
[89:35] Oh, okay, that's hilarious. It's a generation. Is that not what Dennis for in school?

Speaker 3:
[89:39] Listen, okay, well, here's my memory. After dance one day, we went to Subway. And my mom sat me down and she was like, one day you're gonna bleed out of, and I was like, you're gonna bleed. I was literally like, you're kidding me, because I just told Chloe that that's not true. I was like, I told her that that's just pee. And I was literally just like, I can't eat my food. And so something about that conversation made me not want to be a girl anymore. I was like, I don't want to do it. And then like, so I didn't, that was like the puberty talk, because we were about to do the talk in school. So she was like, I feel like I should probably prep her. So I wasn't just sitting in my little blue plastic chairs, like just around the corner. And that still was traumatizing in a different way. The boys come back into class and they're like, what did they tell you about?

Speaker 4:
[90:33] I remember that.

Speaker 3:
[90:34] And we had like pads. Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[90:35] And I was like, I don't know. My mom did give me a good period talk.

Speaker 3:
[90:39] Little did they know I was like five years down the line. They're like, girl, you don't need to worry right now.

Speaker 4:
[90:44] It's going to be a long time.

Speaker 3:
[90:47] You're not going to bloom for a while. No. So they did the puberty talk.

Speaker 4:
[90:53] Yeah, I had that.

Speaker 3:
[90:53] And then nothing beyond that. But public school did some things for me. I heard a lot of things that I was very confused about.

Speaker 4:
[91:06] Public school will teach you everything you need to know.

Speaker 3:
[91:07] They're like, if you lay naked with a boy, and if you fall asleep naked with a boy, you will get pregnant. I was like, oh my gosh.

Speaker 4:
[91:17] That's what I believe.

Speaker 3:
[91:17] Slept with my brother a couple of times. I really hope our clothes stayed on. I'm like, they did. I was just like, there was so much confusion.

Speaker 4:
[91:24] It was.

Speaker 3:
[91:25] And so, I've thought about this a lot. I think our parents probably know that they probably could have talked about it a little bit more. No big deal. It's fine. We figure things out. But with my own kids, I don't think I want to... I've heard the advice before of like, as they ask, then they're ready. It's like, I actually kind of want to be the first to speak on some of these big topics. So I want to be a little proactive about these things. And I think it's equally important for raising girls and raising boys to be proactive and having those conversations. So I'll probably do things a little bit differently, but that's okay. You know, I figured it out, surely. Everything's fine, but...

Speaker 4:
[92:06] I have a vivid memory of my friend in seventh grade. She got like a thorough, in-depth sex talk, like talking about how it all works.

Speaker 3:
[92:14] Okay.

Speaker 4:
[92:14] Like in-depth, and she came back and explained it to all of us at a sleepover. And I was like, what goes in where? Oh my gosh, like being so freaked out. I literally just thought at that point, yeah, if you rolled around naked in bed, that's how babies were made.

Speaker 3:
[92:29] That's how I got to where I was. Because my friend's mom, I love how all the friends get together.

Speaker 4:
[92:34] They're like, so what does your mom need?

Speaker 3:
[92:35] What do you know? Literally. What do you know? That's crazy. Your brother, that's dangerous. But my friend's, her mom got the American Girl doll book and they went away. They went to St. Louis for the weekend and had a girl weekend. Cute. And I was like, that's a good idea, but I do honestly think it shouldn't be the talk thing. Like the more I think about it, I should probably be an ongoing thing where we can continue to ask. I think that was our parents' generation. Like you sit them down one time, you get it done, you never bring it up again, rip the mayonnaise, and never bring it up again. And the kids are like traumatized. Totally. They're like, one time, my mom was like, penis.

Speaker 7:
[93:09] It was really scary.

Speaker 3:
[93:13] So maybe we'll just do an ongoing thing.

Speaker 4:
[93:16] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[93:16] Maybe don't make it one time, but I honestly, you're more experienced. You have four kids.

Speaker 4:
[93:20] Yeah, you know what to do.

Speaker 3:
[93:21] You know what to do.

Speaker 4:
[93:21] You know what she's interested in.

Speaker 3:
[93:24] You asked about our personal experience and it was just very confusing for me.

Speaker 4:
[93:26] It was confusing. I don't think you can mess it up. I mean, I'm sure there are ways you probably could. You could probably mess it up.

Speaker 3:
[93:32] Sexuality is so vulnerable. It is. And like 10, you know.

Speaker 4:
[93:36] Yeah. I feel like you asking, there's already, like you want to do it the right way. So I'm sure you've already done so much research on it. And like some ideas of how you can approach it. I feel like the biggest thing is just being available for questions. My mom was really good. She was available for questions.

Speaker 3:
[93:48] True.

Speaker 4:
[93:49] And yeah.

Speaker 3:
[93:50] Did you get the sex talk, Abby?

Speaker 5:
[93:51] I don't think I did. I don't really, I feel like I already learned most of it from school. And then you get the adverse effects of church too. Of the like, don't do that. Definitely don't do that.

Speaker 4:
[94:03] You just came up with church in like the toxic purity culture time.

Speaker 5:
[94:06] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[94:06] Yeah, I feel like it's better now.

Speaker 3:
[94:07] Yeah. Literally a girl, no, I remember this from church one time. It was like, here's Tupperware and here's fine china.

Speaker 5:
[94:15] That's just horrible.

Speaker 3:
[94:15] Which one do you want to eat up?

Speaker 5:
[94:21] Where's?

Speaker 4:
[94:21] I'm traumatized and I didn't even experience that.

Speaker 3:
[94:23] Tupperware, you wash it, you use it again. It's like you set it aside, you don't use it all year.

Speaker 5:
[94:30] And is this a man? I'm not that type of person, but who's the one showing Tupperware in China?

Speaker 3:
[94:36] No, it was a woman.

Speaker 4:
[94:37] Oh, gosh. I'm glad we've moved past that. I'm glad we've learned that that's not the right way to talk about this.

Speaker 5:
[94:43] I will say, I am one of three girls. So I have two older sisters, so it's also a little different, but not relating to the sex, but relating to the puberty and those changes. My parents had the Keeping Care of You book.

Speaker 4:
[94:56] That was such a good book.

Speaker 5:
[94:57] I think it passed down from each of us girls. It showed me how to put a tampon in. It shows you how to take care of your breasts and when things change. And it talks a little bit about body safety and things like that. So I think that's where it kind of maybe goes in a little bit there, but it just talks about healthy and hygiene and those types of things. So that was a good book I do remember from.

Speaker 3:
[95:20] I just got a really funny memory of the first time my mom took me to get a bra, and we were in to Shopco, which Matt brought to my attention that he doesn't know what Shopco is.

Speaker 5:
[95:28] I don't know what Shopco is either.

Speaker 3:
[95:31] I can't explain it to you guys. It's a budget store that we went to. Great. It was in my town. We didn't have a lot of shopping options, especially for a bra that was going to be about this big. So I put it on. I had my airpastel long fitted graphic tee, and my dad felt my back, and he's like, I hurt. And I was like, I can't wait. Never wore it again.

Speaker 5:
[96:02] I think I wore tank tops from Justice as bras for a long time.

Speaker 3:
[96:06] Someone should have told us that that wasn't enough.

Speaker 5:
[96:10] Under a t-shirt, I would wear that as a bra.

Speaker 3:
[96:13] I was like, this is my bra. It's built in. What a perk.

Speaker 4:
[96:16] My first bra, I said, mom, I think I'm ready for a training bra because I just want to be trained. And so she took me to Old Navy, and I got like a cloth. It was just a cloth sports bra.

Speaker 3:
[96:23] Yeah, those were like underwear.

Speaker 4:
[96:25] And I remember I went to school the next day, and we wore uniforms. Our uniform shirts were white, and I had a white bra underneath. And a girl felt my shoulder and goes, ooh, I know what you're wearing. And I go, shh, don't tell anyone. They could all see it through my polo.

Speaker 3:
[96:39] I didn't know you wore uniforms.

Speaker 4:
[96:40] And yeah, when I went to Catholic school through fifth grade.

Speaker 3:
[96:42] That's funny. That was like the first time I wore mascara to school. And this girl said to me, she's like, you're wearing makeup. And I was like, no, I'm not. And then I like never wore it again.

Speaker 5:
[96:51] The first time I ever shaved my leg, I shaved back here. Cause I was like, I gotta try it out. I'm not sure if I'm supposed to shave my leg. So I shaved like the back of my thigh.

Speaker 4:
[97:00] Wow.

Speaker 3:
[97:00] My friend's mom told her that she wasn't supposed to shave from here up.

Speaker 4:
[97:05] Yeah, my mom told me that. I said, sorry mom, I'm going to.

Speaker 3:
[97:07] Why is that?

Speaker 4:
[97:08] I don't know.

Speaker 3:
[97:08] Oh, cause they didn't want you to shave down there?

Speaker 4:
[97:10] No, I think they just, my mom said the hair was different. It was wrong. She was misinformed.

Speaker 5:
[97:15] Misinformed.

Speaker 3:
[97:16] Just want her on the hairy thighs.

Speaker 4:
[97:17] Yeah, she's like, it's thinner hair. You can't see it, which is, it is thinner.

Speaker 3:
[97:21] Just a clear line.

Speaker 4:
[97:24] I mean, my thigh hair is not dark, but my leg hair is dark. I don't know. I love these girlhood things.

Speaker 5:
[97:29] Me too.

Speaker 4:
[97:29] I can't wait to hear like, Vivian Briel's thing. Like, what are the embarrassing things that we're going to do?

Speaker 5:
[97:36] They're going to have a chat like this one day.

Speaker 4:
[97:38] Yeah. Like, my mom is so embarrassing. What is it with boys?

Speaker 5:
[97:41] They're going to come to you, Abby. You're going to be their aunt, Abby. They're going to come complain about us. What are you going to say to them?

Speaker 3:
[97:47] Oh, gosh. I'll be like, of course, to them, I'll be like, I got your back, girl. And then I'll be like, OK. So anyway, what's actually going on? With the boys, you're almost boy with a pen.

Speaker 5:
[98:00] Way so cute.

Speaker 6:
[98:02] Hey, girlies. This is Kaya. I was just wondering if you guys were on Dancing with the Stars, who would your dream partner be? And what would your first song pick be? Love the podcast. Thanks.

Speaker 4:
[98:14] That's a fun question.

Speaker 3:
[98:16] What was the question actually?

Speaker 5:
[98:17] Who's your dream partner on Dancing with the Stars? I'm looking at my song.

Speaker 4:
[98:23] What was the second half? What would your song be?

Speaker 5:
[98:25] Yeah, what would be your first song choice?

Speaker 4:
[98:27] Do the contestants get to choose?

Speaker 5:
[98:29] I think there's a night that they can choose a song. But usually there's a memory attached, but I'm just going with this.

Speaker 3:
[98:35] Abby, I feel like you have something on deck right now.

Speaker 5:
[98:38] Val, for sure.

Speaker 3:
[98:39] Why Val? I was going to say him too, but then I was like Mark is really fun.

Speaker 5:
[98:44] He's an attractive guy. I think he's good at dancing.

Speaker 3:
[98:46] Well, see, that's why I chose Mark, because I feel like I don't want that kind of-

Speaker 5:
[98:50] I do.

Speaker 4:
[98:54] No offense to Mark, but I don't know any of the partners. Who are all the male? I've actually never watched the show.

Speaker 3:
[99:02] We watched it together.

Speaker 4:
[99:03] I watched one episode of you guys. I watched all the clips online.

Speaker 3:
[99:05] Okay.

Speaker 5:
[99:06] I can name you all of them, but I will just look up a list.

Speaker 3:
[99:09] You know the show has been going on for literally years.

Speaker 4:
[99:12] I know, I know. I only watched this year with like Alex Earl, She Crushed and some of the other girls.

Speaker 5:
[99:18] So we have Val, Mark, Brandon. Do you know who these people are when I'm saying their first names?

Speaker 4:
[99:24] Yeah.

Speaker 5:
[99:25] Brandon Armstrong, Ezra, Sosa, Pasha, Alan, Gleb, Sasha.

Speaker 4:
[99:31] Who has the most trophies?

Speaker 5:
[99:33] Derek Hoff.

Speaker 4:
[99:34] Okay. Give me Derek.

Speaker 5:
[99:35] That's a good choice.

Speaker 4:
[99:36] Give me Derek or give me Jeff. No, I'm just kidding.

Speaker 3:
[99:39] Who has the most trophies?

Speaker 4:
[99:42] I would be the winner.

Speaker 3:
[99:45] He has really good choreography.

Speaker 4:
[99:46] Is he still on the show? I thought he was a judge. Okay. Who is still on the show that has a lot of trophies?

Speaker 5:
[99:52] Probably Val. Mark Ballas is next to Derek. So it's Derek Huff.

Speaker 3:
[99:56] I already got Mark, so.

Speaker 5:
[99:58] And then Mark.

Speaker 4:
[99:59] I didn't know only one person could claim it at one time.

Speaker 5:
[100:01] Yeah, we're on the same season. So we had Derek at six, Mark at three, Val at three. He's mine. That's Cheryl. That's a woman.

Speaker 4:
[100:11] So you guys have Mark and Val, the two best?

Speaker 5:
[100:13] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[100:14] Well, shoot, I was a little slow. Okay, I'll take.

Speaker 5:
[100:17] I would suggest for you.

Speaker 4:
[100:18] I feel like Ezra.

Speaker 5:
[100:19] You would enjoy Ezra.

Speaker 4:
[100:20] Give me Ezra.

Speaker 5:
[100:22] You would divide.

Speaker 4:
[100:22] Maybe Derek will come back.

Speaker 5:
[100:24] Brandon is so funny though.

Speaker 4:
[100:25] Special request.

Speaker 5:
[100:26] What song would you guys choose?

Speaker 4:
[100:28] Okay.

Speaker 3:
[100:30] What song?

Speaker 4:
[100:31] You can't tell me that man wouldn't take the opportunity to jump back on the choreographies. He's a great choreographer.

Speaker 3:
[100:35] I would want a fun party one that like, oh, you know what I would do? I like to move it, move it. Griffin and Augie would just be beside themselves.

Speaker 4:
[100:45] Amazing. I would do Celine Dion, My Heart Will Go On.

Speaker 3:
[100:49] Oh, that was the vibe I wasn't expecting.

Speaker 4:
[100:51] I know. It's just, no, I'm sorry. Not My Heart Will Go On. You were history with the slamming of the door. Was that one called? I can't remember when I went around. What's that song called? And I banish it. I'm not going to keep singing it. You and I had ever made.

Speaker 3:
[101:10] What a really fun one would be, we're gonna have my husband.

Speaker 4:
[101:13] Did it have to be fun?

Speaker 5:
[101:14] No.

Speaker 3:
[101:15] I want it to be fun because I'm like, I don't want to do like a romantic.

Speaker 4:
[101:17] Oh, yeah.

Speaker 5:
[101:18] Who sings that song?

Speaker 4:
[101:19] Celine Dion.

Speaker 5:
[101:20] My song is, it's all coming back to me now.

Speaker 4:
[101:23] That's the one. Yeah, I would do that one.

Speaker 5:
[101:24] I would do Down by Jay Sean and Lil Wayne. Baby, are you down, down, down. Specifically the rap section.

Speaker 4:
[101:32] We could pick rap songs.

Speaker 3:
[101:33] You can do whatever you want.

Speaker 4:
[101:34] Okay, then Migos. All of them.

Speaker 5:
[101:39] That song gets me hype.

Speaker 4:
[101:42] Migos stir fry, specifically.

Speaker 5:
[101:44] Stir fry, that's crazy.

Speaker 4:
[101:47] The big ol like a booty make the world crack.

Speaker 3:
[101:49] That's not getting you a beer ball.

Speaker 5:
[101:50] Hey, remember the one time we went dancing?

Speaker 4:
[101:53] Yeah, it was great. We went to the club. No one else danced.

Speaker 3:
[101:57] We went to the club.

Speaker 5:
[101:58] Had no drinks. No, no.

Speaker 4:
[102:00] I love this overnight at the club.

Speaker 3:
[102:02] That's all I know.

Speaker 4:
[102:04] It's the better way, believe me. Okay, I have an always hungry recipe, but it's not, it's my own recipe, and it's for overnight oats. It's delicious.

Speaker 3:
[102:14] Here's my thing about overnight oats. Do you eat them cold?

Speaker 4:
[102:16] I do, yeah, I like them like that. You don't like that?

Speaker 5:
[102:19] I had that same question.

Speaker 4:
[102:20] Listen, you have to put a lot of sugar in it. Like, not sugar, but like sweet things.

Speaker 3:
[102:24] See, I like warm oatmeal.

Speaker 4:
[102:26] I love warm oatmeal too, but I also love a good cold oatmeal, and it's just nice making it the night before.

Speaker 3:
[102:30] Let's hear it.

Speaker 4:
[102:30] Okay. You do a half cup oats. Listen, I don't have a link that goes in the description, so just write it down, pause it, pull out a pen and write this down. Okay.

Speaker 3:
[102:39] Get your post-it notes.

Speaker 4:
[102:40] Get your post-it notes.

Speaker 3:
[102:42] We can type it.

Speaker 4:
[102:42] A half cup rolled oats. Okay. Three fourths cup almond milk or milk of choice. One tablespoon chia seeds. Eyeball the amount of honey, maybe a teaspoon to two teaspoons. Some frozen blueberries, stir it up. Oh, a dash of cinnamon. Just a dash. Not too much, not too little. Stir it up, put the lid on it, put it in your fridge overnight or for two hours. Okay. When you get it out, you're gonna slice strawberries. And then this is the most important part. Only this granola is acceptable. It is the bare naked granola in the cashew and cacao flavor. It's the best. It's got the chocolate, the cashews, the crunch. You got the blueberries and the strawberries and the chia seeds. And then give yourself an hour after that so you have enough time to go to the bathroom because you will go to the bathroom after you eat this.

Speaker 3:
[103:33] It's the chia seeds.

Speaker 4:
[103:34] It's the chia seeds. That's delicious.

Speaker 3:
[103:38] Wow. That was so detailed.

Speaker 5:
[103:41] Hannah was writing the notes over here. I was watching it come in.

Speaker 4:
[103:44] She was trying to go in and talk a little faster.

Speaker 3:
[103:47] She's described now. Sorry. I just realized I've never actually linked my sourdough pretzel bites. And I made those for Easter.

Speaker 5:
[103:54] And I'm like, The last episode, we talked about it.

Speaker 3:
[103:57] I talked about them, and she made it. But it wasn't my recipe. And I made them. And now I'm like, I need to share the recipe.

Speaker 4:
[104:01] Do you have any more?

Speaker 3:
[104:03] No, they also don't save. My grandma was also against it. She was like, you should not be making these because it's going to spoil everyone's dinner. And I was like, I ate them and dinner.

Speaker 4:
[104:12] I ate tons of them.

Speaker 3:
[104:13] That's up to them. That's up to them. And then she started eating them. And she was like, whoa, these are so good.

Speaker 4:
[104:19] They're so good.

Speaker 3:
[104:20] And you know what? Sourdough is so gut healthy, okay? Right. So that's it for Always Hungry. What are we doing? Okay. Thank you so much, those of you that have written reviews. Seriously, it means so much. If you could take just a minute to just whatever platform you're listening to this on, just tell them you like it, basically. Heart it, rate it, five stars, like it. It's me, Abby and Addy really appreciated. We also have more people behind the scenes than you probably realize that also appreciate this feedback too, and are looking at those as like markers of this podcast. So thank you so much. If you listen to it and enjoy it, just let us know. Yeah. One Pressy says, my favorite girls, five stars. I love you guys so much. I love having a good group of girls to listen to when cleaning or just chilling. I hope you guys do longer episodes. I feel like there have never been long enough. I hope you liked last week's episode. Oh, that's gonna end up as, we were going crazy.

Speaker 4:
[105:16] We were going crazy.

Speaker 3:
[105:17] So thank you. Gosh, don't tell us, because it's just gonna get crazy.

Speaker 4:
[105:21] You want to blab, we'll blab.

Speaker 3:
[105:23] We will blab.

Speaker 4:
[105:24] Thank you guys so much. If you want to leave a voicemail and potentially get on the pod, you guys can call the phone number 602-456-9690. That is such a fun, fun, fun aspect of our show. We love it so much. We're so grateful to you guys for calling in. Do we have a book club announcement or anything? Is that next week?

Speaker 3:
[105:45] That's a good time to say that. Keep reading.

Speaker 4:
[105:48] Just Friends.

Speaker 3:
[105:48] Just Friends. I'm almost done with it.

Speaker 4:
[105:50] Yeah, it's cute.

Speaker 3:
[105:51] By Hayley Pham. That is our April book. And then we'll do like a little book club meeting on the podcast the last episode of April.

Speaker 4:
[105:59] Well, that's all we got you guys. Thank you so much for listening. And remember, we're always here.

Speaker 8:
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Speaker 7:
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Speaker 4:
[107:13] Wayfair, every style, every home.