transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:00] So good, so good, so good.

Speaker 2:
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Speaker 4:
[00:39] Hey friends, welcome to the Raising Boys and Girls Podcast. I'm Sissy Goff.

Speaker 5:
[00:43] And I'm David Thomas, and we're so glad you've joined us for this conversation. Let's dive in.

Speaker 4:
[00:56] Okay, David, let's start with the moment every parent or aunt of a toddler has had. You're trying to get out the door, you're already late, and your toddler says, I do it myself. And you're thinking, this is not the moment.

Speaker 5:
[01:13] Oh, right. Shoes on the wrong feet, shirt backwards, or one buttonhole off, toothpaste everywhere.

Speaker 4:
[01:21] That was last week for me. And what if what feels like the most inconvenient moment of your day is actually the most important?

Speaker 5:
[01:33] Because what if that moment is where capability begins?

Speaker 4:
[01:38] Okay. So let's talk about what's really happening with toddlers. Toddlers get labeled, and sometimes act, strong-willed, defiant, and emotional.

Speaker 5:
[01:50] Tiny dictators.

Speaker 4:
[01:52] Yes. But developmentally, something really important is happening. They are wired for autonomy.

Speaker 5:
[01:59] They are not trying to take control. They are trying to become a person.

Speaker 4:
[02:05] That know, that mind, that I do it. Those are all actually signs of healthy development.

Speaker 5:
[02:12] And here's where we get in trouble. We experience that as resistance, so we override it.

Speaker 4:
[02:19] We rush in, we fix, we help, and we think we're doing the right thing.

Speaker 5:
[02:23] But we may actually be interrupting the very process that builds confidence.

Speaker 4:
[02:29] Because here's the deal. Toddlers don't learn by watching. They learn by doing, by trying, by failing.

Speaker 5:
[02:37] And by doing it badly.

Speaker 4:
[02:39] Yes, beautifully badly. And loudly sometimes.

Speaker 5:
[02:42] Loudly sometimes. And when we step in too quickly, we rob them of the chance to figure it out.

Speaker 4:
[02:49] Which is where capability grows. Right there in that space between this is hard and I did it.

Speaker 5:
[02:58] And when we rush in, we rob them of the chance to rise.

Speaker 4:
[03:03] Okay, let's talk about something that feels really big for every parent of a toddler that we talk with in a parent consult, or that we meet with, or that we're family members too. Separation. Preschool drop-off, Sunday school, a babysitter.

Speaker 5:
[03:19] That moment where a child clings and cries and everything in you wants to go back and rescue.

Speaker 4:
[03:27] And we have subtly absorbed this belief, if my child can't be without me, that means we're really close.

Speaker 5:
[03:36] But, and you all hear us say this with a lot of grace, a lot of grace, that is not actually secure attachment. That's anxious attachment.

Speaker 4:
[03:46] And I wanna jump in and say, though, most kids are gonna go through a phase like this.

Speaker 5:
[03:51] Certainly.

Speaker 4:
[03:52] And we don't need to panic that they have anxious attachment disorder because they're there. But what we wanna do is not confuse secure attachment and anxious attachment. And we need to deal with it, which we're gonna talk about exactly how. Because if we were going to define what secure attachment is, it's that feeling of you can go because I know you're coming back.

Speaker 5:
[04:16] Yes. And when we avoid this separation, this opportunity, it actually robs kids of the chance to learn that.

Speaker 4:
[04:26] Because y'all, here's the deal. Separation is not harmful to kids. And we're hearing more and more parents who are concerned that it might be, who are concerned that they're damaging their child by separating from them. Sunday School drop-off, babysitters. We even talked to someone who said that they knew some parents who were afraid to send their child to kindergarten that it would disrupt attachment. And separation, you all, is fertile ground for healthy attachment. Because they experience, I was okay, and you came back.

Speaker 5:
[04:58] And that is where trust is built.

Speaker 4:
[05:00] I feel like in the background we should have Daniel Tiger singing Grown Ups Come Back. I wish I could sing it and remember the tune. But I'm so grateful for Daniel and the truth of so many things in that show. But that episode in particular, and it is one that we sing all the time with Henry and Whit. Grown Ups Come Back. And Kathleen will even sometimes just start it as the beginning of the sentence, Grown Ups Come and Whit will say back. It's become one of their mantras. So instead of sneaking out, which it is so easy to do or lingering forever, try, I'm going to go and I'll be back. Or even starting with that very sentence, Grown Ups Come and let them fill in the blank. Short, clear, confident, with empathetic reminders. We can even say, I know it's hard, buddy, but don't forget, always come back.

Speaker 5:
[05:51] Because your confidence becomes their confidence. And you all, we need to remind you again right here, the opposite is true. Your anxiety can become their anxiety. We talk about how anxiety is contagious, the calm is contagious, confidence is contagious as well. And now a quick break to hear from one of our incredible sponsors who make the podcast available. Okay, we just flew to Arizona for an event. It was 90 degrees, sunshine, desert vibes.

Speaker 4:
[06:21] We packed like it was summer camp.

Speaker 5:
[06:23] Then we flew home to Nashville and it was 30 degrees.

Speaker 4:
[06:26] I stepped off the plane and immediately wanted soup, which is why I was so grateful we were stocked with brodo in the kitchen.

Speaker 5:
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Speaker 4:
[08:13] Or where we parked the car.

Speaker 5:
[08:15] Or our login information for literally anything. If a website asked me to create a new password, I immediately need a snack and a nap.

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Speaker 5:
[09:33] That's shopify.com/rbg. And now back to the show. And let's just say everyone benefits from healthy separation, not just kids.

Speaker 4:
[09:46] Yes, spiritually, emotionally, even physically.

Speaker 5:
[09:50] A parent who gets to sit in church and actually worship instead of chasing a toddler in the hallway is a more regulated, present parent later.

Speaker 4:
[09:59] Yeah, same with date nights, time alone, even sleep, you guys.

Speaker 5:
[10:05] We'll just gently say rest matters greatly.

Speaker 4:
[10:10] As does separation. So let's talk about what toddlers need. We want to give you something practical. So talking about what they need to be doing. Number one, we would start with boundaries.

Speaker 5:
[10:23] Yes.

Speaker 4:
[10:23] You all toddlers need boundaries. We know that we're moving into some controversial territory here, so hang on. We are hearing more and more parents talk about toddler meltdowns who have heard so much about empathy and attunement only. Getting down on their level, offering empathy for the big feelings. I see that you're really frustrated or I understand that you're sad. Then they stop there and the feelings only get bigger.

Speaker 5:
[10:54] We're talking to parents regularly about the balance of support and challenge, equal parts of both. We would love to also say, we want to offer kids equal parts of empathy and consequences, which both make kids feel safe and secure.

Speaker 4:
[11:10] I loved when Henry first started OT. It was such an amazing experience and they taught Henry and they taught Kathleen and Erin and me about green choices and red choices for Henry. Henry would get dysregulated and they would remind him, they would first do some breathing with them or try and encourage him to do some breathing. Then if he couldn't and he was dysregulated, then we would talk about a red choice and he would sometimes even have time in those moments. You all know, he would go sit in a chair nearby so your kids can do that, so they can see you as many minutes as their age. And yes, it is okay to give kids time in and time out. As long as we're doing it age appropriately, we're aware of the timing and that they don't have attachment issues already. We want to be conscientious of that, certainly.

Speaker 5:
[12:01] I'm so glad you mentioned that. And it's a great reminder. We've done some episodes, had some really great conversations around attachment, around supporting kids who had disrupted attachment. And it reminds me of how much we love the work of Dr. Karyn Purvis. We'd highly recommend her book, The Connected Child. So for any parent listening who that is a part of your journey, it's a fantastic resource that speaks even more to that particular idea.

Speaker 4:
[12:29] But y'all have heard us say so often, boundaries create security in kids. And when we do those things, we're reminding them, I'm the strongest person in the room, not you, because that creates insecurity when they feel that way.

Speaker 5:
[12:41] Okay. And can I give another reminder that I think is important right now too? You've heard us say before, and this is worth repeating, that as we talk about this idea of consequences in discipline, we want to be paying close attention to the two most common mistakes parents make when it comes to discipline. Too much talk, too much emotion. We can step right in that trap daily, sometimes hourly, if we're not paying attention. We don't want to get bigger than they are. All that creates is not one, but two dysregulated parties at this particular point. And we don't want to lecture because they don't have the attention spans for it.

Speaker 4:
[13:19] Yes, so simple, clear, calm. You may not hit. I won't let you throw that. I need you to sit in your chair for two minutes or three.

Speaker 5:
[13:29] And you and I have had a similar experience with parents recently where when we even talk about this idea, this very thing, relief will flood their faces. Like, really, I can still offer consequences? And it's sad to me that I think as many parents are doubting themselves in that space. Again, out of what could have been a really great and worthwhile pursuit that we talk about every correction is often an overcorrection. That's a place where I think it's showing up because boundaries create safety. Boundaries do not disrupt attachment when done with empathy as well. That mixture of safety and empathy builds capability.

Speaker 4:
[14:10] Two, they need self-soothing. You guys, toddlers need opportunities to calm themselves, not instantly be rescued from every emotion.

Speaker 5:
[14:21] This is where allowing some crying in a safe, supported way matters.

Speaker 4:
[14:27] We stay near, but we don't always fix.

Speaker 5:
[14:31] Okay, I've been doing a little spring reset with my closet lately. Fewer pieces, better materials, quality over quantity, which is how I accidentally discovered something life changing.

Speaker 4:
[14:43] I feel a little nervous.

Speaker 5:
[14:44] Quince makes a short sleeve Mongolian cashmere polo.

Speaker 4:
[14:49] Of course they do.

Speaker 5:
[14:50] Which means I am now in Quince cashmere year around. Winter, cashmere sweater. Spring, short sleeve cashmere polo. I'm basically waiting to see if they release beach cashmere. But truly, that's why I keep coming back to Quince. The fabric feels elevated, the fits are thoughtful, and the pricing actually makes sense. Their spring pieces are lightweight, breathable, effortless, the kind of things you throw on and instantly look put together. And the materials, 100% European linen, organic cotton, super soft denim. I had to double check the price on that cashmere polo because it did not cost what I thought quality cashmere would.

Speaker 4:
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Speaker 5:
[16:06] A protest?

Speaker 4:
[16:07] She could not get settled in my bed, circling, sighing dramatically, flopping down, getting back up. And then I realized I had washed the bedding and forgot to put the Boll & Branch sheets back on.

Speaker 5:
[16:19] Do you have some entitlement to work through?

Speaker 4:
[16:21] Yes.

Speaker 5:
[16:22] In her defense, I get it. She's got great taste. And here's the thing. Most people keep their bedding way longer than they should.

Speaker 4:
[16:30] Sheets start pilling, corners pop off, pillows flatten. You don't realize how much it's affecting your sleep until you finally replace it.

Speaker 5:
[16:37] We upgraded our bed with Boll & Branch. Their signature organic cotton sheets, breathable pillows and that waffle blanket. And the difference was immediate. The sheets are incredibly soft, breathable, and they actually get softer after every wash.

Speaker 4:
[16:51] The moment you lie down, the bed just feels better. Cooler, more polished, more inviting.

Speaker 5:
[16:57] Even dogs can tell.

Speaker 4:
[16:58] Apparently. If you think you need a new mattress, you probably just need new bedding. Most people start with the signature sheet set and then quickly upgrade the whole bed. I did and now I'm not going back.

Speaker 5:
[17:10] Upgrade your sleep with Boll & Branch. Get 15% off your first order plus free shipping at bollandbranch.com/raising with code raising.

Speaker 4:
[17:20] That's Boll and Branch, B-O-L-L-A-N-D branch.com/raising. Code raising to unlock 15% off. Exclusions apply.

Speaker 5:
[17:33] You know, we wrote, you wrote Braver, Stronger, Smarter for Girls, and I wrote Strong and Smart for Boys with kids 6 to 12 in mind. But those workbooks are easily modified for toddlers. And it's all about teaching kids the skills and strategies to regulate in moments where they feel overwhelmed. So using resources like that are going to allow kids to develop tools to put in their tool belt. So remember these tools have to be learned and practiced. We talk about that a lot. They're not intuitive. They're not instinctive. They have to be learned. And then they have to be practiced over and over.

Speaker 4:
[18:07] And the Daystar Dogs books have tools too. Every one of them.

Speaker 5:
[18:10] Yes. Can I throw a third idea in the mix? Independence. So let them try. Let them try. Any Grandma One Parents, I'm talking to you in particular, even when it's slower, messier, or what we might deem the wrong way.

Speaker 4:
[18:29] Whoa. Whoo. Especially then. And I'm so glad you said that about any Grandma One Parents. I'm going to call myself out here as a big sister, y'all. Remember, Kathleen is 16 years younger than me. And I think I was probably 20, and she was probably four, when I will never forget getting out of the car, and I was helping her out of her car seat. And she looked at me and she said, Kiki, why are we always in a hurry? And I've never forgotten it, because it was so painful and so true. You all, I feel that so much. And when I'm with the boys, when we have bunking parties now, I try to remind myself often, number one, slow down. And I will say to them, I feel like one of the diddy always says, I will say, I can only do one thing at a time, because I try to take on too much, and then I'm frustrated and I don't give them independence. So slow down and the mess doesn't matter, because they can do the things on their own. And I'm trying to intervene to clean up all the time, and it's not helpful. Slow down, the mess doesn't matter.

Speaker 5:
[19:32] So good.

Speaker 4:
[19:33] Four, I'm gonna bring up a fourth. Okay, along those lines, responsibility. Even toddlers can learn responsibility, because in fact, they are capable of so much more than we think. So I think it'd be fun to make a list. Let's throw out some things.

Speaker 5:
[19:50] This is gonna be gold. Okay, you ready?

Speaker 4:
[19:52] Yep.

Speaker 5:
[19:53] I'll go first.

Speaker 4:
[19:53] Okay.

Speaker 5:
[19:54] Putting toys away.

Speaker 4:
[19:56] Carrying their plate to the sink.

Speaker 5:
[19:59] Helping unload the bottom rack of the dishwasher.

Speaker 4:
[20:02] Throwing clothes in the hamper.

Speaker 5:
[20:04] Wiping spills even badly.

Speaker 4:
[20:07] Feeding a pet.

Speaker 5:
[20:08] Helping set the table. Napkins and utensils.

Speaker 4:
[20:11] Putting on shoes. Wrong feet welcome. It's so helpful so many have velcro now. Until they're the age they need to learn to tie. And yes, that is capability too.

Speaker 5:
[20:19] Brushing their own teeth with some supervision and oversight.

Speaker 4:
[20:23] Helping pack their backpack. They don't need to do it perfectly. They need to believe I'm someone who helps. I'm someone who can. And the truth is, they love to help at this age.

Speaker 5:
[20:37] You all, we are raising kids in a culture that moves fast, values efficiency and avoids discomfort.

Speaker 4:
[20:46] And toddlerhood is the opposite of all three of those things.

Speaker 5:
[20:49] Slow, messy and emotional.

Speaker 4:
[20:51] But what if the goal isn't to make life easier right now, but to make our kids stronger for later?

Speaker 5:
[20:59] We're not raising toddlers who can get their shoes on. We're raising kids who believe I can handle things.

Speaker 4:
[21:06] Okay, so let's leave parents with a few things to remember, a few quick takeaways.

Speaker 5:
[21:10] I love that. All right. Number one, pause before helping.

Speaker 4:
[21:14] Oh, say it again. I need to hear it.

Speaker 5:
[21:16] There's magic in that equation. Pause before helping.

Speaker 4:
[21:19] Thank you.

Speaker 5:
[21:20] And I think within doing that, I think back to our friend who wisely said, I wish my mom had spent more time saying what?

Speaker 4:
[21:27] I wish my mom had spent more time saying, You've got this more than let me get this for you.

Speaker 5:
[21:32] There you go. And pausing before helping allows us to think that through. Number two, let struggle happen. That's where so much growth takes place. And number three, create safe challenges.

Speaker 4:
[21:45] Which means let them climb. Even if you feel fearful, let them run, not around the pool, but where places you can find context to do that. Four, use fewer words, more calm. Five, normalize separation. Six, give them real responsibility. And remember, along all the lines that we've talked about, all this messaging, what it would boil down to is, it's slower, it's harder, it's messier.

Speaker 5:
[22:17] But it's worth it.

Speaker 4:
[22:18] And they're worth it.

Speaker 5:
[22:20] Because every I do it myself is a step toward a child who believes I'm capable.

Speaker 4:
[22:27] You all, you got this. We are cheering you on. David, what a team we have that we get to call friends who help make this podcast possible.

Speaker 5:
[22:39] Chris Starritt, our engineer, our management team at KCH, and we are thrilled to be a part of the That Sounds Fun Network. Our music was created by the insanely talented Dave Heywood of Lady A.

Speaker 4:
[22:54] And if this podcast felt helpful to you, please consider subscribing, liking, sharing, all the things.

Speaker 5:
[23:01] We are grateful for you and cheering you on always.

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