transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:08] Hey, everybody, welcome back to The Find Out Podcast. This is for episode for Thursday. You heard from, we talked about California on Tuesday's show and all the things surrounding Eric Swalwell. And today we have one of the candidates for governor. And you gotta give me a minute to go through the resume here, but former California assembly member, former member of Congress, former attorney general of California, and former secretary of health and human services under the Biden administration, Javier Becerra is with us today. Mr. Secretary, how are you?

Speaker 2:
[00:39] I'm glad to be alive, glad to be in this campaign, and glad I'm with you.

Speaker 1:
[00:44] Great. Well, we're going to dive right into it. So obviously, the race upended on Friday with the story about Congressman Swalwell and some very concerning allegations against him by multiple women. First, before we dive into why you, I just want to get your thoughts on what you've heard and how that's shaking up the race.

Speaker 2:
[01:07] Him having been in public service for over 30 years, anyone who wants to get into public service, at least at this level, you got to know the public's going to want to know. Want to know more than just what your views are on policy. And they're going to have a right to know. And accountability is the catchword when you're in public service. And so no one should be surprised at where we are today.

Speaker 1:
[01:30] Yeah, and so obviously he has both resigned from Congress and he suspended his campaign, which has obviously upended it because most polling was showing that he was ahead. So there are a lot of gettable voters out there. So Mr. Secretary, I want to ask you, why should California voters vote for you on June 2nd?

Speaker 2:
[01:49] Today, I think voters are so concerned about leadership. They don't know who to trust. And after the episode that we just went through this past weekend, I think even more reason for folks to have this absence of trust. And so I think right now, trust and what can you trust better than experience? Someone who makes an inflated promise, how do you know they're going to deliver? Well, if they've done it before. And if California's got a massive budget deficit, you want to know who can balance it? Trust someone who's actually balanced a budget bigger than the state of California. That's what I did at the Department of Health and Human Services, the largest health organization in the world. I've been able to get us out of crisis, COVID, avian flu. You want to talk about getting California out of crisis, don't just promise it. Having done it helps.

Speaker 1:
[02:38] For sure. And I think for those of you who don't know, Javier was the Health and Human Services Secretary before RFK. So we actually used to have somebody that believed in science that-

Speaker 2:
[02:47] Let's make that clear. Let's make that real crazy.

Speaker 1:
[02:49] Right.

Speaker 3:
[02:50] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[02:52] You don't believe that Tylenol causes autism?

Speaker 2:
[02:56] I believe in science and what happened to science.

Speaker 1:
[02:59] I know, right? And it's so funny that- Well, it's not funny at all, but we have to laugh at this stuff, but it is very damaging. But you are obviously in charge of a massive healthcare operation at Health and Human Services. And one of the things that we have been- because we asked our followers, what they wanted to hear from you on was, what is your healthcare plan for California? So a lot are asking, like, is universal health care possible in California without the government? What is your solution to this, to the healthcare crisis that we've got right now?

Speaker 2:
[03:29] Yeah, Tim, if I could boil it down, it's Medicare, but Medicare For All. Everyone understands Medicare because there's not a 65-year-old or older person in this country who says, go ahead, take away my Medicare. They will fight tooth and nail to keep their Medicare. And so we should be able to tell people what they're gonna have. Medicare for you, not just when you're 65 and older, Medicare for you, period, because Medicare, essentially, it is single payer, but it's our form of single payer. What it does is it guarantees everyone 65 and older. You paid into the system, now you're gonna get it for the rest of your life. We should do the same thing. Cut out all the fat, all the moving parts that have nothing to do with getting a doctor giving you care and put that money, instead of paying all those bureaucrats, all those pencil pushers, put it into health care. And that's how you make it more affordable, because every other industrialized country in the world, pretty much Germany, France, Canada, they all do that and they give much better care and give it to everyone, not just some. Right.

Speaker 1:
[04:26] And all the affordability thing in general, because obviously we're pressed for time, so we're gonna kind of rapid fire some of this, but obviously affordability across the board has been a huge concern. Donald Trump said he would solve this problem on day one. All he has done is the opposite, is increase prices. So if you are governor, you would be in charge of the fourth largest economy in the world. What can you do as governor to ensure that Californians can keep more of their money in their pocket and not have to spend it on runaway grocery prices, energy prices, things like that?

Speaker 2:
[04:57] Well, I can certainly first make sure that everyone does have health insurance coverage. So that way they're not constantly trying to battle what they pay for a visit to the doctor or certainly a hospital stay. So guarantee folks stability when it comes to health care. We're not going backwards. We're not going to take a knee to Donald Trump. We're not going to take his trillion dollar cut to the health system and say that we're giving up and we're going to let people drop off of their health insurance coverage. You got access to your doctor. That's important to him for one additional reason, more than just giving families access to health care they need. It means every doctor, every hospital will get paid for having provided that care. Because if they don't get paid, at some point they have to close their doors because they can't operate without money. And so guaranteeing those providers that they'll get paid is huge. What about gasoline prices? Well, if Donald Trump would start initiating illegal international wars, we would have gas prices that would go down immediately in California. And we have to start building more homes so we can reduce the pressure on prices of housing here in California. So there are any number of things that we could do. The governor does have a big lever to make those things happen.

Speaker 1:
[06:05] Yeah, and I want to push on the housing thing for a minute, because that is one of the biggest crises across the country. This isn't just a California issue. That housing is moving further and further out of the reach of 20 and 30 somethings and really like the average age has moved into the 40s, I think, when they bought their first home. So, obviously, you have a, there are a massive state and obviously lots of land and things like that. How can you actually supercharge development of new housing, both single family homes and apartments, so that we start to drive those costs down?

Speaker 2:
[06:41] So building, as I mentioned, let me give you one quick way what I'm going to do within my first 100 days. We have about close to 40,000 units in California that are essentially shovel ready. One thing missing, it could be that last tranche of financing, it could be that last licensing permit that they need, but they are ready to go except for that one thing. First thing I'm going to do is I'm going to get in and say, show me those 40,000 units, where they are, which developments, and let's push them over the top. Let's get them going because the shovel is going to go in the ground immediately after we say go, green light. So that's one way to give the public this sense of confidence that we are going to build. Secondly, we're going to trim down some of the rakes. We're going to ask the local governments to cut back on some of the fees they charge developers, and we're going to develop everything, affordable workplace and market rate housing, because we need all of everything. And the more we give it a developer the incentive to build, the more they will.

Speaker 1:
[07:38] Right. And I think I think that has been an issue in a lot of places. I live in New York City. We have the same issues. We've passed some zoning regulations recently that have done exactly what you've said. It clearly is a workable model. So I'm very glad that you are on that. Another thing that California's care a lot about, but generally is unfortunately not a priority at the national level right now, is the effects of climate change on communities across the country. And obviously California, my in-laws are actually from Southern California and they've told stories about they didn't need air conditioning growing up. And now all of a sudden, you're facing a hundred plus degree days for weeks at a time in some instances. So clearly it has an effect. So what would you do as governor to combat the effects of climate change on California's lives?

Speaker 2:
[08:26] Tim, I'll do what I did as Attorney General. Of the 120 plus times I ended up having to go toe-to-toe with Donald Trump and his cronies, and by the way, winning most of those cases, plurality of almost the majority of those cases was on the environment. We had to fight for clean water, clean air. We had to make sure we protected the Endangered Species Act, and we beat him most of the time. And so what I'll tell you is this. Just as we defeated Trump's efforts to remove, to eliminate our clean car standards, which by the way, drive the nation when it comes to the standards that we have for our cars, we will do the same thing because the law is on our side. The second thing we're going to do is we're going to continue down this path towards clean energy. But we're going to do it in a way that transitions us without really leaving so many of those working families behind that are really concerned that they can't afford yet to buy that electric vehicle. But what we can do is make it on a pace that works for working Californians. And so California is going to go its own way, one way or the other, we're going to continue to move in this direction. We're going to do it smartly and we're going to do it understanding the industries we need to get us there. But what I will tell you is this, we will not take a knee to Donald Trump.

Speaker 1:
[09:39] Is it true that you I saw somewhere, correct me if I'm wrong, did you have the record for suing him as Attorney General? I think I heard someone that said that either you're top two or you're number one, I think, for the Attorney General that sued him the most, right?

Speaker 2:
[09:52] Yeah, I don't know of anyone else who sued more, but they should come out and claim because it's a pretty good record. And not just suing him, I took him to the Supreme Court and beat him. We still have the Affordable Care Act as we took to the Supreme Court and beat him. We still have the DACA program for all those dreamers, immigrant kid dreamers, because we took them to the Supreme Court and beat them.

Speaker 4:
[10:14] Right, your campaign right there. The guy who sued Trump the most. That's perfect.

Speaker 5:
[10:19] Yeah, there should be a leaderboard, like, you know, up on a wall somewhere that everybody can look at.

Speaker 2:
[10:24] I think some of the state AGs today are rapidly catching up to be.

Speaker 1:
[10:28] Yeah, they're trying to catch up.

Speaker 5:
[10:29] Like, oh, you can do that and win. Javier, I have a question for you. I was doing some research on the policies that you drove, and I read that you negotiated drug prices successfully for, with the drug companies, and got what I found was 38 to 79 percent reductions in costs for Americans on medications. My question is, why weren't you able to get 14, 15, 1600 percent reductions in drug costs like Donald Trump? And what did you learn?

Speaker 6:
[11:09] Why did you go to his school of math?

Speaker 2:
[11:12] You're like my parents. What do you mean you got an A? What happened to the A plus?

Speaker 5:
[11:16] The plus plus, the 6.0 GPA.

Speaker 3:
[11:18] Yeah, A triple plus.

Speaker 2:
[11:19] Yeah, that's right. You know what? Our prices, let me tell you, we did negotiate aggressively and we did get prices down up to 80 percent on some of the most expensive drugs. And there's still room as well. But remember that people wanted to see that there would be success. And what we had to do was aggressively drive prices down, but not make the companies think they could leave the Medicare market. And so what we did is we examined what was out there. And what we came out with was a price that really pared down how much they charged us. But it also made it attractive for them to stay in the Medicare program. But I will tell you this, there is more money to be had there. Who thinks drug prices are not high? And so we can go at it. But the thing we wanted to prove is that you actually could negotiate lower prices because there were people who said you couldn't do it. Actually every one of the corporations, pharmaceutical corporations that we negotiated with sued me saying, I can't do that. I'm not allowed to do that. And we beat them in court. And of course, we did do that. And so what we proved is that negotiating lower prices, duh duh duh, works. It's like when you go to a car dealership and pay sticker price for that vehicle. And by the way, if you do stop doing that, because you did it. Right.

Speaker 1:
[12:44] Well, I've got one more. Well, I actually have two questions, but the last one's a little silly, but I'm going to ask this one. So in this race, there are a lot of really good people that I want to hear a little bit about the experience though, because you are the only one that has actually run a government agency of any sort of size, not to knock anybody who's got Congress experience, but I think you have like 15, 20 people under you in those offices. So how important is it? This is a softball for you. How important is it for somebody to be experienced in government in order to run what is essentially the fourth largest economy in the world?

Speaker 2:
[13:22] We're going to run into things that you would not have expected when you're running these operations. COVID, how were we to know that COVID at the very beginning, certainly Trump didn't realize this, that it would start to mutate and that that virus would take different shapes and that you would have to have different vaccines for the different mutations of it. And it was a constant thing. How did we know that some people would get out there and start saying on social media, hey, masks are the worst thing you should do when you're surrounded by people with COVID. Hey, sure, go ahead and attend church and congregate and sing together. And don't worry, COVID doesn't spread that way. I mean, you have to deal with all these kinds of unexpected stupidities that are out there. And so what you have to do is be ready. And you have to have a team that knows how to marshal that. When you have virtually 90,000 people under your wings, you've got a lot of work to do. When you've got a budget that's 1.8 trillion, you've got a lot of money to handle, and you need to know how to do it. The governor's office is not a place for on-the-job training. It does not come with training wheels. You need someone who's actually gone through these things. I'm the only one who's actually declared national emergencies and had to respond, deploy personnel and resources. It is a tough job. This is a break glass moment in California. You need someone who's got experience. Trust someone with experience if you're going to trust them at all.

Speaker 1:
[14:45] Great. And final question for you, and I know you got to run. Well, a lot of people actually ask us this, because a lot of people are saying they are still getting to know you as a candidate and as a person. If someone was to sit down with you, what is your drink of choice? We actually got asked this several times.

Speaker 2:
[15:00] Interesting.

Speaker 1:
[15:01] Alcohol, Don, alcohol, whatever you want.

Speaker 2:
[15:02] Yeah, I'm pretty old school. I will tell you, my drink of choice every day, I'm just a water guy, but if you ask me for something that's got a little spice in it, you know, I'm a Corona guy. Give me that lemon and just let me have the Corona and I'm good.

Speaker 1:
[15:20] You know, especially in Southern California, I think people will like that answer. So, Mr. Secretary, sorry.

Speaker 2:
[15:27] I picked one of those commercials.

Speaker 1:
[15:29] Yeah, well, I'll have to get you, yeah, the one in the Christmas one, right, where they're on the beach, right? Well, Mr. Secretary, I know you are very busy and the race has been turned upside down, so you're taking advantage of all these opportunities, which you really should do. But we wanted to thank you for coming on. And hopefully, you know, after June 2nd, you win the primary, you come back, we have some more time with you so people can hear more about your plans for California. But until then, we wish you the best of luck and you know, all the success on June 2nd.

Speaker 2:
[15:55] Anytime, fellas, it's great to be with you anytime.

Speaker 3:
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Speaker 1:
[16:28] All right, we are back. I really like him, guys. I really, the amount of experience that he's had, and he just seems like a nice guy.

Speaker 4:
[16:37] He does.

Speaker 5:
[16:39] A little off putting, I just got a Snapchat invite from him.

Speaker 6:
[16:43] Oh, god damn it.

Speaker 4:
[16:46] Oh, shit, shit.

Speaker 5:
[16:48] I'll let you guys know in 24 hours.

Speaker 1:
[16:50] We got to talk to somebody else now. Geez. For those of you who did not pay attention. Oh, god. Right. It was. Eric Swalwell was a big Snapchatter because the messages disappear. So if you missed that, that's the joke.

Speaker 4:
[17:05] But yeah, I'll be as creepy as shit, man.

Speaker 1:
[17:09] It's not for adults.

Speaker 6:
[17:10] It's not for people that are above the age of 25.

Speaker 5:
[17:13] Right. The pics disappear.

Speaker 4:
[17:16] It doesn't seem right.

Speaker 1:
[17:17] I think it's a, well, it's a text platform for kids who don't want their parents to see what they're talking about.

Speaker 5:
[17:23] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[17:23] It's not for some creepy 40 year old trying to skeeve on interns and shit.

Speaker 5:
[17:28] The pics disappear, but the lawsuits last a lifetime.

Speaker 6:
[17:32] God, if only.

Speaker 4:
[17:33] Can't you just screenshot? Like, I mean, isn't there like an easy.

Speaker 6:
[17:36] You can, but it notifies it. So, like, if you take a screenshot, it tells the other person that you took a screenshot.

Speaker 1:
[17:42] God, you people are all you. So, you'd have to have two phones then. Two phones. You can get two phones. Take a picture of that way. But, well, and since we talked to Fraz, Miss Frazled on Monday for Tuesday's show, another woman has come forward with a sexual abuse claim. So, you know, for all those people who are like, I need proof, I'm like, it's not looking so great for you guys because the numbers keep growing. And she told us that there were dozens more that are possible.

Speaker 4:
[18:08] Dozens.

Speaker 1:
[18:09] Dozens. She said dozens. Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[18:11] Yeah.

Speaker 5:
[18:11] So well, and again, like, I'm not going to testify in court.

Speaker 1:
[18:15] 15 years.

Speaker 5:
[18:16] Yeah. Right. Yeah. I'm not going to go testify in court. I'm just not going to vote for governor. Like I trust the women who are the victims and the people who corroborated their stories. And now we can all move on and justice can be served. You know.

Speaker 1:
[18:35] Yeah. It's a job interview. We're not sending him to prison. There is a different level. But even yesterday, I'll have to say when I was on threads, I still saw a few, not many, it's shrinking, but they're still like, where's the proof? And I'm like, I just like, why is it so hard for you to believe that a congressman that now six women have come forward to talk about inappropriate behavior, some of which is potentially criminal? Why is that less possible for you?

Speaker 4:
[19:03] Isn't that like an admission? Didn't he like say like, I did something wrong, or did he not say that?

Speaker 6:
[19:08] He said something, I apologize to like my friends and families and colleague and stuff.

Speaker 4:
[19:12] Right, but to me, that's like, that's proof that he did something.

Speaker 1:
[19:17] I think it was like about the distraction. I think I don't think because he said fundamentally, he said this didn't happen.

Speaker 4:
[19:24] Oh, yes.

Speaker 6:
[19:25] When you go ahead and resign from Congress to run from the Ethics Committee.

Speaker 4:
[19:29] Yeah, I mean, I call bullshit on that. The proof. Like if you did nothing wrong, why are you resigning? You know, you're resigning to avoid being horrendous.

Speaker 1:
[19:37] He's doing what Matt Gaetz did, which is to escape the investigation. And everyone's like, well, but there's maybe a criminal investigation. I'm like, yes, but like a ethics investigation in the House magnifies the amount of people who will see that exponentially because all the press will talk about it. Everybody will be on it. Whereas like, you know, the DA in Manhattan, Alvin Bragg, is investigating from a criminal perspective. But like they that is a very different thing than having Congress release a full report because the AG or the excuse me, the district attorney is not going to release anything until there's a trial. So that's why he wants because he like if that came out before the trial. I mean, let's be honest, everybody's like the guy would be screwed. So like he wants to get away from it.

Speaker 5:
[20:23] He did say something about a lapse in judgment.

Speaker 6:
[20:26] Yeah, see, that's what I was.

Speaker 4:
[20:27] There you go. I mean, right there. Yeah. But it's also like the sheer amount. Like, I mean, sort of like conspiracy stuff where it's like, what do you think like all these women are conspiring behind the scenes? We're all going to tell the same story. We're all like it's out of nowhere. Why would they do that?

Speaker 1:
[20:41] There was somebody that literally accused Fraz of treason by coordinating with Vladimir Putin.

Speaker 5:
[20:48] They know what treason is.

Speaker 4:
[20:51] Why would Putin give a shit about who's the governor of California? I mean, maybe you'd have a little bit of interest, but not enough to do this.

Speaker 1:
[20:56] Well, I guess the theory is that you could get one of the Republicans in there, but with that jungle primary.

Speaker 5:
[21:02] That's a state government position, not the fucking federal government. People are scared.

Speaker 4:
[21:07] That's the dumbest shit.

Speaker 1:
[21:08] Well, but like that's right. It's just like, but that's the cognitive dissidents of these people. They cannot get themselves around somebody that they supported for the governor of California being a sex pest.

Speaker 5:
[21:21] Well, and like, I mean, and that's okay that it's, this is hard to process. Don't come clapping back at victims.

Speaker 1:
[21:29] Right.

Speaker 5:
[21:30] Like, if you, I knew about Eric Swalwell all of like six months, I don't know, maybe a year. I, you know, we had him on a few months ago. Right, right, right. But I mean, like before he started, you know, I think getting known, getting known on social and everything outside of Snapchat. He was just another member of Congress. But there are people who voted for him probably, you know, and were supporters and donors and stuff for a long time. And they just, yes, it is hard to believe when you find out somebody you supported or gave money to or admired, betrayed your trust and betrayed their constituents, betrayed women. All that's true. But sit with that, sit with that very quietly and process that and then maybe speak out against.

Speaker 4:
[22:17] It shouldn't be hard to process. It's just to be like, oh, well, shit.

Speaker 6:
[22:19] Yeah, he's a piece of shit. I'm done.

Speaker 4:
[22:20] Right. Exactly. Like that.

Speaker 6:
[22:22] I don't understand the loyalty to politicians.

Speaker 4:
[22:24] Same.

Speaker 6:
[22:24] I don't either. This guy's a rapist. All right. Fuck it. I mean, I don't give a fuck.

Speaker 4:
[22:30] I'm with you.

Speaker 5:
[22:31] He's not Obama.

Speaker 6:
[22:32] But if I found out that Obama did something I disagreed with, that's harder for me than if I found out like, yeah, you know, maybe, but like, or someone from Iowa, to me, it's the same as if it happened to someone in my personal life, where it's like, okay, I find out you're a massive human piece of shit. I don't want anything to do with you anymore. We're done.

Speaker 1:
[22:50] But I don't think as you forever. But I don't think as a society, that is actually what happens, though. I think that the majority, like when you hear about these cases or things in college, you hear about whatever like they kind of get like the men don't get ostracized for this, generally speaking. And it actually is always, this is why I think it's ridiculous to say like the women will get out anything about coming forward. They end up in the negative. They get demonized. They get demonized. So like, I think we as a society, it has to be at all levels of, you know, like I know it's harder to disassociate with a friend, but if they're like a sexual assaulter, you shouldn't be friends with that person. It's not hard.

Speaker 5:
[23:34] If you want to get a really good idea, you know, you look at E. Jean Carroll, Monica Lewinsky. We couldn't get the best women in the country in terms of their qualifications for the presidency, elected as president because they were women. How many people would vote for Monica Lewinsky if she ran for a position right now? Like even the ones who were abused and who were vindicated in the court in a court of law, they take an absolutely massive toll that they can never, like Monica Lewinsky is still the person who had, you know, did not have an affair with Bill Clinton. And the victims, they can't shake that. They can't shake the association with negativity. And so they go down with the ship either way. It's a fucking terrible system.

Speaker 1:
[24:23] Bill Clinton's approval rating after the Lewinsky scandal went up.

Speaker 3:
[24:28] Did it really?

Speaker 1:
[24:29] Well, part of it's because the Republicans tried to get rid of him.

Speaker 3:
[24:33] Sure.

Speaker 1:
[24:33] And they did it in a ham-fisted way, right? Because they were investigating Whitewater, which is kind of stupid. And like, then he was like, oh, Ken Starr is like, oh, I'm going to go chase this thing now. And so it was all and they way overplayed their hands and then they got throttled and what was that? Ninety-eight, midterm, whatever.

Speaker 4:
[24:49] It's a different world.

Speaker 1:
[24:50] But point being, the President of the United States was credibly accused of sexual assault or misconduct or however you want to label it.

Speaker 4:
[24:58] I don't know if it was assault, because I think it was...

Speaker 5:
[25:00] He was never... He lied under order. Oh, I guess it was... He lied under... I guess, sorry.

Speaker 4:
[25:05] He lied under oath. I think it was just his conduct.

Speaker 5:
[25:08] I think it was his only crime.

Speaker 4:
[25:08] I think he's getting blown in the Oval Office there, like when he's married.

Speaker 6:
[25:12] Yeah, morally wrong, not criminally wrong. Nowadays, they're probably talking about the power imbalance. Yes, yeah.

Speaker 5:
[25:16] Right, right. It was an abuse of power, a hundred percent abuse of power.

Speaker 4:
[25:19] A hundred percent.

Speaker 5:
[25:20] But I don't think that... No, you're right. She never claimed it was non-consensual, right?

Speaker 1:
[25:25] No, that's true. They went after his because he said, what is your definition of his?

Speaker 5:
[25:29] Yeah, it depends on your definition of his. Which like that's a classic Bill Clinton line, because he's a very intelligent person. He's like, he's going to get up in your head and start gaslighting you on a public stage.

Speaker 1:
[25:43] I think the difference, though, is that if you were president today and he did that, it would be a much different reaction from Democrats than in the 90s. It's a very different situation. I don't think it would have gone the same way at all. But it just shows that there are people on our side who defend people, who have serious misjudgment when it comes to those types of things.

Speaker 4:
[26:04] So fucking dumb.

Speaker 1:
[26:06] Well, there's a thing called Blue MAGA. And I think there's a segment of the population that looked at what Donald Trump has done and what he's built. And they're like, let's do that, which is never admit any fault, never admit anything's wrong. But we're not that block of voters. It doesn't work the same way. And we shouldn't do that because that's not the morally right thing to do.

Speaker 5:
[26:28] I think the hard thing for me is, we've talked about taking the high road ever since Michelle Obama's famous line that has burned us a few times. But the hardest part is, it's not doing the right thing, it's understanding that doing the right thing no longer resonates with large majority, like large portions of the American public. And so there was a time where if you were an American and you believed like coming out of World War II, if you did the right thing, Americans would ultimately come around, like the good guys always win, like that was sort of our motto for a long time, and for most of my life. But now we finally have had to come to grips with the fact that no, like the good guys sometimes lose really badly, and then it ends up worse for everyone. And then the people who cheered for the bad guys feel even stronger and even bolder coming out of it. And so the question is like, do you fight at that level to win over those people who have no ethical backbone, no moral compass, and then try to like lift everyone back up out of it? Or do you continue to do the right thing until you're 2% of the population and have no power?

Speaker 4:
[27:41] I like, the thing is, overall this time, I don't think it matters if you go low or high anymore. I think nobody cares. I think in the end, you got to just, the reason Trump won isn't because he went low, it's because he focused on the big issues and didn't give a shit about anything else. That was, he just, that's really it. You could be an asshole or you could be the nicest person in the world. As long as you're focused on the shit that people care about, kind of doesn't fucking matter. So I think it's just a different era of politics now, where it's like, they go low, we go high, we go high, they go low, who gives a fuck? Just focus on what people care about. It doesn't really matter.

Speaker 1:
[28:16] I do think that the go high thing can sometimes come across this week. Absolutely.

Speaker 6:
[28:22] I think that's what it is more than anything.

Speaker 1:
[28:24] And I don't think it's a high or a low, it's just a like, I mean, look at Zoram Mdani, he's not fighting anything, he's a bully, he's very good on this issue. Focus on things people care about, potholes and affordability and that. But like, isn't apologizing for anything, which I think Democrats sometimes like when the ACA was going through, they were kind of like, oh, let's just like not talk about like some of these things and it looks weak. And then it's like, no, fuck this, like this is good for 20 million people health care. And so I think we're all agreeing on the same thing. It's just like you have to be strong. You can take the high road, but you got to be strong.

Speaker 5:
[28:57] Well, it's two conversations in parallel and they both have to go forward because I think just morally, we have to do the right thing by the country, obviously, equal rights, DEI, all of that stuff at all. This is a very long legacy that progressives have been working on. And it is right. It is objectively right at every level. There's also the, are you fighting for the right things conversation? And I think, you know, people who have followed politics for a long time, we naturally believe that the politics part of it is maybe half of the conversation and the policy, or like the focus and the fight is the other half, I think, like, or maybe like 90 percent of it sometimes. They're like, oh, I can't believe they said that. That's immediately disqualifying.

Speaker 4:
[29:45] Right.

Speaker 5:
[29:46] Well, it's maybe for you because you watch CNN or Fox News all day long. But I think I think Zach is 100 percent right in that the average person, when you look at what they're willing to tolerate, if they think they're going to get a bigger paycheck, or if they think they're going to be able to stay in their home or, you know, or make more money or, you know, have health care, like those other things really start to not matter at all. You're like, I don't really care if they're offensive. Right.

Speaker 4:
[30:12] A hundred percent. Yeah. I saw somebody do a video the other day that, like, was exactly emblematic at this point, where, like, it was a guy talking about how, like, complaining about how some, like, white leftists arrived at being in their place because they were anti-capitalist, because in the end, like, they were feeling the effects, and that's what brought them there. And it was a complaint about the- I saw this video, too. And I'm sitting there, and I'm like, who gives a shit? Like, in the end, you have an ally. Like, I think that's the biggest problem that we have, that the right doesn't have, is they, like, we set up red lines everywhere, and it's like, the red lines. Like, just make them real queer.

Speaker 5:
[30:42] That guy's saying that it was- Totally agree.

Speaker 6:
[30:43] That they got, they became leftists because they were anti-capitalist and not, but they didn't come there because they were anti-racist.

Speaker 4:
[30:49] Anti-racist, exactly.

Speaker 6:
[30:51] And he laid out, like, a bunch of stuff like how almost all the, like a bunch of capitalists- He's right.

Speaker 4:
[30:56] He's right.

Speaker 6:
[30:57] But who cares? The thing that I think he missed on it is that he could have said, if you are anti-racist, I don't have a problem. Like, getting there is, like, if you got there because you're anti-capitalist, and then you're like, oh, yeah, look, capitalism is based in racism, we're done. But if you sit there and deny that, like, capitalism is tied to race, that you're fucking racist and yourself, then fuck you. Yeah, I missed that part of that video if you did.

Speaker 4:
[31:21] Yeah, he didn't do it. But like that, but it's like emblematic of the larger problem, right? It's like the right doesn't do this because, like, look at it this way. The right is like these two distinct segments of, like, MAGA and then, like, regular Republicans who just, like, want economic fucking value, you know? Like, that's like this. But they don't fight with each other, like, at all. They're just like, we just accept each other. We have totally different value systems. But you know what we want to fucking do? Win. And the left does the polar opposite. That's the problem.

Speaker 5:
[31:47] Well, there's a lot of I'm not going to vote for someone if I have to sacrifice my values. I'm like, but.

Speaker 1:
[31:53] There is no, like, person that you're going to agree with 100% of the time. There's nobody on the planet that you're going to agree with 100% of the time.

Speaker 6:
[32:02] You know, humans are not the enemy of progress.

Speaker 1:
[32:04] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[32:05] And you have different motivations. Everybody has different, we're different people, you know, with different circumstances.

Speaker 5:
[32:09] Right, find your common denominators and hold on to those. Because if you pick these, like, maybe they're really important lines, but like, if you just look at, you know, Kamala Harris and the Middle East, that's a pretty arbitrary red line, like, when you look at the history of the Middle East.

Speaker 4:
[32:29] There is nothing to do with it.

Speaker 5:
[32:30] There have been people, well, and like, the world is really gritty. It's really fucking gritty. It's really violent and really ugly. And especially the Middle East. There have been factions warring since before Jesus existed. So let's accept that, like, there's no American president who can solve for violence in the world. You have to find those thresholds where you do intervene. And that's a matter of foreign policy and having really smart, careful people doing that work. It's not a fucking stump speech. It's not a it's not a sizzle reel on Instagram. Like these are serious things. Find the things that you can actually control that are closer to home. Generally, I think those are the ones that I mean, that's how I orient my political beliefs is the more the closer it is to you, the more control you have over it. And that's where you should focus a proportionate amount of energy. But instead we see, like, people just reaching. And I don't mean that genocide is a reach, but like in everything, everywhere, there's always somebody reaching for the most arbitrary reason to cancel a Democrat. You know, they took $12 from APAC in 2006, and so they're fucked. I'm like, what about the other person, though? Is this the like the greater of goods or the lesser of evils? I don't really care. I'm going to vote for the person who's going to be the best.

Speaker 6:
[33:53] They'll put the guy who took $12 in 2006 on the same level as the guy who's taken 600,000 in the last four years. Those things aren't the same. You have to operate in a fucking gray scale here. It's not black and white.

Speaker 4:
[34:06] What it does too is it takes these candidates away from focusing on the shit that people actually want to focus on. That's the biggest problem. It forces them to make choices about where they allocate their time and focus and what they're talking about. Even talking about a hobby you're coming on here and having to like, there's huge issues in California, but people are just talking about this one prick who's a predator. Californians want to know what's going on, why is gas so fucking expensive, why are there so many fucking homeless people? That's it. Him having to focus his attention on other places is just going to do damage to his ability to speak to the average Californian that could vote for him. That's the fucked up part.

Speaker 1:
[34:45] Well, it doesn't feel strong. We go back to that, right? Because you're whiplashing between issues, and if your own party is ripping you to shreds, it makes it difficult. And the Republicans have always been better at winning, like that they're like, win at all costs. And we're like, well...

Speaker 6:
[35:03] You know what it is?

Speaker 4:
[35:04] It's like Democrats are like a more talented team with a bad coach, and Republicans are a less talented team with a good coach. That's how they win. They're just well coached. That's it.

Speaker 1:
[35:14] Yeah. I mean, they've built the ecosystem, so they only see the stuff. They've invested top down or down, bottom up across the board. Like, they have a farm. If we're going to do the coach thing, they have a farm system, right? And they've got, you know, they know how to play the audience. Like, they have the, you know, Rich, you were joking about your Ohtani bobblehead. Like, they do that from a political perspective all the time, whether it's a Trump coin or like, you know, getting invited to a phone or a gun or a Bible.

Speaker 6:
[35:43] Sneakers, steaks, ice, vineyard.

Speaker 1:
[35:47] Vodka, you know, planes.

Speaker 6:
[35:48] Airlines.

Speaker 1:
[35:49] All of those went out of business, by the way.

Speaker 5:
[35:51] There's no floor. You know, they'll they'll just do whatever and and the voters receive whatever they're like, what you know, how low are we going? You're going to give me you're going to pay me directly. Like Elon Musk was paying voters to vote in in Wisconsin like that. People on the left don't go that well. I can't even remember.

Speaker 6:
[36:11] I can't even remember that.

Speaker 1:
[36:12] Yeah, but didn't that get tossed?

Speaker 5:
[36:15] No, he was like a million dollar a day lottery. Yeah. And it was because it was somebody outside of the campaign. No, he did it. Whether he got sued afterward or not doesn't change the fact that like that he did it. People got a million dollars because they because they thought they were going to get a million dollars. Anyway, I mean, if a if a Democrat came to me and they were like, I'll give you a million dollars to go vote for me, it'd be like, I'm going to sit with this for a long time. I probably am not OK with it. Like a million dollars would be pretty great. But they're MAGAs?

Speaker 1:
[36:48] It's a bribe.

Speaker 4:
[36:50] Yes.

Speaker 5:
[36:50] Yeah, it's a bribe.

Speaker 6:
[36:51] Yeah, it's the inverse of a poll tax.

Speaker 4:
[36:54] Yeah.

Speaker 5:
[36:54] Whereas MAGA voters are like, I can get me them gold, those those gold Trump shoes. Fuck yeah, dude, I'll have so much left over. I can buy a monster truck.

Speaker 1:
[37:03] Oh, they're gaudy as shit. But that's his that's his thing. I see the photos of his apartment and Trump Tower. It's so gaudy and gross. And he's making the White House like that, too.

Speaker 6:
[37:12] Yeah, the White House, the oval office sign on the outside looks like something you got out of fucking home goods.

Speaker 1:
[37:19] It's so gross.

Speaker 6:
[37:20] And they staged that dumbass door dash photo shoot.

Speaker 1:
[37:23] Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

Speaker 6:
[37:24] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[37:24] So that's it. Yeah. So that so everybody who hasn't seen this, it's really funny. Say it was meant to promote the no tax on tips stuff. So they like the president. Door dashed McDonald's. If you're on audio, I have air quotes here. And this lady who does not live in Washington, DC., by the way, shows up at the White House with a bag of McDonald's. He opens the Oval, I think, and like takes the bag. And they're like, no tax on tips. Then, of course, they dug into it. And it was a total stunt because, of course, it was. And then they tried to say it wasn't.

Speaker 6:
[38:03] After Trump goes, well, what do you think? Should men be allowed to play in women's sports? And she goes, I don't really have an opinion. I just don't hear about the no-tax-on-tips.

Speaker 5:
[38:10] She's like, sir, just take the fries out of the bag.

Speaker 6:
[38:13] Literally, take the fries out of the fucking bag.

Speaker 4:
[38:16] Imagine if you could door dash to the Oval Office. Like, imagine how unsafe that system would be. It's fucking insane. Just knock it on the door. I got you. It's like, what the fuck are you talking about?

Speaker 1:
[38:25] They just throw it over the gate. Just throw it over the gate.

Speaker 2:
[38:27] Like, just toss it.

Speaker 4:
[38:29] Like a fence a mile long around this thing.

Speaker 5:
[38:33] I know they talked up the no-tax-on-tips thing. I don't know if people knew this, but I was just reading through all the tax updates with, or it was in the Washington Post or whatever they were talking about, the no-tax-on-overtime. I didn't know this, but the no-tax-on-overtime thing is only on the overtime, the time and a half, it's on the and a half portion of the overtime. So like when you say no taxes on overtime, if you make 20 bucks an hour and you're like, fuck yeah, I'm going to get $30 an hour. No, it's not $30 an hour, it's tax-free. You're getting taxed on the $20, you get $10 an hour untaxed for like seven hours that week. Okay, that's $12 back on your taxes.

Speaker 1:
[39:15] It expires. All of the stuff that helped poor and working-class people, not very much, the stuff that was in the bill for poor and working-class people has an expiration date, but you know what doesn't have an expiration date is that billions of tax cuts for rich people. Those are permanent.

Speaker 5:
[39:34] So you have to ask yourself live. I was just doing some fun math last night. So I was watching The Pit and they had an episode about a hospital closing, a rural hospital closing, and I was like, hmm, and I get on the internet and I was like, how many hospitals are at risk and how many could be covered if with that $500 billion increase in military spending that Trump requested? It's all of them, right? Remember, all of the Medicaid cuts were $1 trillion over 10 years. Not a trillion a year, $100 billion a year over 10 years, which means every fucking year you could cover the Medicaid cuts five fucking times over every single year with just the extra that he wants for the Pentagon budget, and that is not including the two years of bonus that you'd get from the $200 billion on top of the $1.5 trillion they want for Iran. So we got $1.7 trillion. 0.7 of that is just fucking extra money they don't need so that they can cut Medicaid and not even cover even half of it.

Speaker 1:
[40:38] So for those keeping score at home, when Donald Trump said that we could not afford the Medicare Medicaid at the current level, he was lying. But we can go into a war of which we still don't know why we're there.

Speaker 6:
[40:53] We spent almost $100 billion there now.

Speaker 1:
[40:55] Oh, it's up to almost $100? Great.

Speaker 5:
[40:58] Unbudgeted, too. They haven't even taken that from Medicare or Medicaid or Social Security or homeless people. They just don't. They're like, we'll figure out where it comes from.

Speaker 6:
[41:08] It comes from a mystery land of money.

Speaker 5:
[41:10] Mystery money land. It comes from the Treasury. They just print it off.

Speaker 1:
[41:14] I mean, you're actually not that far off of that. They just print it off. That is pretty much what happens.

Speaker 5:
[41:20] We'll deal with the inflation.

Speaker 6:
[41:21] I mean, they want to devalue the dollar, right? It's an unbelieved sell in the Excel spreadsheet.

Speaker 1:
[41:28] What happened to America? I thought these guys were America first.

Speaker 5:
[41:31] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[41:32] Well, as sure as they are.

Speaker 5:
[41:34] I mean, America to them is just Trump and his immediate circle of monetary buddies. I think that's the thing that took me the longest to appreciate is when he says, we're going to be great again, he literally only means me. I will be great again. I will be great again. If you just swap that out with every single thing he says, suddenly all of the inputs and outputs all track like one to one. Everything makes sense if you only look at it through the lens of what personally benefits Donald.

Speaker 1:
[42:03] Well, the good news is that most Americans are hating it. Like he is doing a horrible job, including, I know we talked a little on Monday, but like this whole like attack on the Pope and the like blast from the Submission. I know, Luke, I, Luke, I listened to Get Angry This Morning with you and Brian.

Speaker 6:
[42:22] Did you have a stroke?

Speaker 1:
[42:24] I laughed a few times, but I almost did, you know, stroke out, stroke out a few times. But yeah, it's talking about the the fact that so many people are are mad about, you know, using the name the Lord's name in vain. Then he literally depicts himself as the Lord. And they're like, I don't really like it, but it's fine. It's fine.

Speaker 4:
[42:47] It's a line. I'm telling you, like I was just in Missouri with Brian, and we were talking to some of his friends. And like one of the questions that came up, it was the reaction was so funny, was kind of like, you know, in the end, do you choose the Constitution or do you choose Christianity? And they're like, I'm not answering that question. He got up and left.

Speaker 6:
[43:03] Wouldn't answer it. It's not hard to pick.

Speaker 1:
[43:05] Well, because you know their answer, right?

Speaker 4:
[43:06] Well, their answer is Christianity. But that's the point. I think it's great that Trump is finally realizing like, oh, there is a barrier that I didn't realize was here. I'm actually not number one for a lot of these people. And I thought I was. It's nice to see him find that horrible realization.

Speaker 1:
[43:21] Do you like how he tried to say that he thought that that image depicted him as a doctor?

Speaker 4:
[43:25] A doctor.

Speaker 5:
[43:26] All the fucking AI images now of him in a fucking, like because the pit came up, but he's like, the operating room, and Trump in the corner with the fucking robes on.

Speaker 6:
[43:39] You know the truth of it, right? Or what I believe to be the truth is that all morning that day, every person in the administration was saying, the picture is doctored. It's doctored.

Speaker 4:
[43:48] Ah, that's interesting.

Speaker 6:
[43:49] Oh shit.

Speaker 1:
[43:50] That's a good theory.

Speaker 6:
[43:51] And I am 90% sure that the reason that he said, I am a doctor in that picture is because he's not fucking smart enough to put together the difference between a picture being doctored and I'm a doctor. Similar to how he can't tell the difference between insane asylum and seeking asylum.

Speaker 5:
[44:08] A thousand percent. Dude, that's such a good dot to connect on. I already guarantee you're right. 100 fucking percent. Because yes, when he's like, oh, they're sending their fucking mentally ill. When it's shit like that, they're so fucking out of left field, you're tempted to just let it go. But if you actually chase that, like pull that thread, I'm like, oh shit, no, he thought it was a mental asylum. They need a new mental asylum.

Speaker 4:
[44:34] Do you think he makes them? Do you think he's the one that actually types in? Or do you think he tells people what to make? Because that's what I made a video. I want to see the prompt. You can prove all this shit. There's a prompt for this.

Speaker 1:
[44:47] Somebody wrote it. It used to be that his team would troll all of those white supremacist sites and grab images for him to use. If you remember, in 2016, there were this money meme that then had the Israeli or the Jewish star. He was like, no, it was a sheriff's badge. Like, no, it wasn't. And they got it on 4chan, which is a white supremacist message board. Now, they have prompts and shit, but like every... I think they're just... I think his team just troll, like, grabs those images, don't think anything about it, because they want to show... It's a wink, wink, nod, nod support to those people. I don't think that he's going into ChatGPT or Claude and saying, depict me as Jesus. No, no. Because I don't think he knows what AI... He doesn't use a computer. He uses them. He has a phone, but I don't think he uses a computer.

Speaker 5:
[45:41] No, he is 100% the guy who gets the text in like a text thread 700 other guys and they look at it and they're like, that's real and they post it on the Internet. That is the level of society or intellectualism that he lives at. If you just think of it that way, I'm like, oh no, he just saw this online and thought, well, that looks cool. Then they're like, sir, that's doctrine. He's like, yeah, I know that. It's not good. Look at how thick my hair is.

Speaker 4:
[46:07] I have a true social and sometimes for fun, I'll just go through and look at the comment sections. It's just these kinds of memes. A whole thing is just like these wildly fucked up memes. And you're like, it's just Christ. It's insane. If you ever want to be like the angriest you've ever been, just go and like click into Trump's true social profile, click any of his posts. And there's thousands of fucking memes that will make you want to just shoot everybody.

Speaker 5:
[46:33] OK, next episode of Get Angry.

Speaker 6:
[46:35] Zach, I don't think that's going to work.

Speaker 5:
[46:37] Zach hosts and he screenshares and you guys live react to the comments under something Trump posts.

Speaker 4:
[46:43] That's a really good idea.

Speaker 6:
[46:44] I don't think that's going to end well.

Speaker 4:
[46:46] Oh, it'll end. It'll be great. Great clips.

Speaker 5:
[46:47] Guys, their heads are going to just like explode.

Speaker 4:
[46:50] Oh my God. I'm looking at them right now and there's so many that are just on fire.

Speaker 1:
[46:54] But it is important to look at that stuff though because you have to understand the world that these people live in.

Speaker 5:
[46:58] How far it's gone.

Speaker 1:
[46:59] Like we don't see any of that stuff and they live it. Like they are obsessed with it.

Speaker 4:
[47:06] The first one I'm looking at right now is as well. They're distracted by Iran. Trump's rearranging the entire board and it's Trump playing chess just like doing a fucking 40 chess and like they're all like that.

Speaker 1:
[47:15] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[47:15] Right. Like even that's a tame one. Like I'm just saying like there's a million of them.

Speaker 1:
[47:19] I'm sure there's all kinds of racist.

Speaker 4:
[47:21] I can't say a lot of the things that I'm looking at right now. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[47:25] Which they have no problem with over there. Of course. Yeah. I'm not going to go on there. I'll let you be the official.

Speaker 4:
[47:32] It's very funny.

Speaker 1:
[47:33] Should we create a Find Out Podcast to social account?

Speaker 6:
[47:37] No, thanks. I'm not running that one. I'm not doing that.

Speaker 1:
[47:41] Well, didn't the Harris campaign had an account on there? It was only to troll people.

Speaker 5:
[47:45] But I think Newsome had an account.

Speaker 4:
[47:48] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[47:48] Might have to.

Speaker 5:
[47:49] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[47:49] The meme, the meme wars.

Speaker 4:
[47:53] Oh, my God.

Speaker 1:
[47:53] Yeah, I don't think we're going to waste our time.

Speaker 4:
[47:54] This one's great. I will defend my country against all enemies, both foreign and Democrat.

Speaker 1:
[48:00] Can't imagine why that side thinks we're all a bunch of like evil shitbags.

Speaker 4:
[48:03] There's so many. They're so good.

Speaker 5:
[48:05] And there's time last year we were joking about how we were all going to be sharing bunk beds at Seacot. So like, I am glad that we've I feel like we've turned a corner. It's just been the slowest corner ever. You can't turn around the Titanic overnight. It turns out.

Speaker 4:
[48:17] No, definitely not. I can't.

Speaker 1:
[48:19] Yeah, no, we. Oh, God. Every I don't even know what to say anymore.

Speaker 6:
[48:25] I still get top bunk.

Speaker 5:
[48:26] I think we're at time is what you need to say.

Speaker 1:
[48:28] I think we're at time.

Speaker 5:
[48:29] We're cooked.

Speaker 4:
[48:30] That's how effective these memes are. It ends the podcast, right?

Speaker 5:
[48:33] Yeah, just like full stop.

Speaker 1:
[48:35] I can't go on. Well, we want to thank Javier Becerra for coming on today. You should go check out his campaign and what he's building over there. I think, you know, with Swalwell out, I think we're going to see his numbers starting to rise. We have another candidate that we're working on for Monday, potentially coming on, who's at the top one of the I'll say top three, not confirmed. So I don't want to I don't want to blow up their spot yet. But so we're going to keep talking about California which is obviously the biggest lecture going on right now and the craziest because it's California. But yeah, I think we'll wrap there. Make sure you check out Get Angry, which had an episode dropped. We're recording on Wednesday. So today, American Power, guys, is killing it. Killing it. I mean, everyone's killing it, but they're like blowing us out of the water right now. So you should go check out.

Speaker 5:
[49:26] Yeah, do it for a year, motherfuckers. Come on.

Speaker 1:
[49:29] Yeah, go check them out.

Speaker 5:
[49:31] You have no idea how boring this gets.

Speaker 4:
[49:33] Some friendly competition.

Speaker 1:
[49:35] And Nola Haynes is not a spy. Don't forget that one, too. It's a great show. She's got three or four episodes out already. And make sure you subscribe to us on YouTube, because again, that's a way to help us make some money for this. Where you don't have to pay, though, memberships are available. Subscribe, sub-stack, all of that. So with that, guys, thank you to Xavier Becerra for coming on. Thank you, everyone, for listening. We will be back on Tuesday. Bye, everybody.