transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:16] I'm Sean Fennessey.

Speaker 2:
[00:16] I'm Amanda Dobbins.

Speaker 1:
[00:17] And this is The Big Picture and Conversation Show about the summer. Today on the show, we're previewing the summer movie Slate with another one of my little games. Later in the show, I'll be joined by Daniel Goldhaber. He is the co-writer and director of Faces of Death, the new super smart, super nasty reboot of the 1978 cult horror Curio. Danny was last on the show talking about his second feature, How to Blow Up a Pipeline, which was one of the best movies of 2022. A great thinker about movies and media, an excellent discussion. Listen to it after our chat here. Programming reminder, Amanda, we are just a week away from our 900th episode.

Speaker 2:
[00:51] I mean, don't jinx it, but yes.

Speaker 1:
[00:53] Yes, unless something fiery and terrible happens in the next six and a half days. To celebrate, we're going to do a mailbag. You can email us at what?

Speaker 2:
[01:03] BigPicMailbag at gmail.com.

Speaker 1:
[01:05] You can email us. However, you can also call us. You can call us. The number is 323-488-3241. And you can leave a voicemail. We've done this before. It went very well last time.

Speaker 2:
[01:20] You're all very normal. And we encourage you to be creative. But let's be real. I want to bring the younger generation in. There's a difference between a voicemail and a voicenote.

Speaker 1:
[01:32] That's right.

Speaker 2:
[01:33] Yeah, okay. So if you don't know, if you don't know, call an elder. One is once shorter, one's to the point. And then one is seven minutes that I'm never going to listen to, whether I know you or not. So voicemail, we'd love to hear from you.

Speaker 1:
[01:48] I've never sent a voicenote.

Speaker 2:
[01:50] I have a couple times because I felt like someone had sent me a voicenote. And then I was like, I gotta, you know, but I've like, I'm terrible. It's really the most boomer in me. I don't know how to do it. I send it to the wrong person.

Speaker 1:
[02:03] I assure you, it's not the most boomer thing about you. Anyhow, if you want to talk at us and have us respond to you, you can call us once again. That number is 323-488-3241. We will send a reminder about that later this week too. We got to get into our show now. Before we do that, some movie news and then we'll chat.

Speaker 3:
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Speaker 1:
[03:21] This episode is brought to you by the Autograph Journey credit card from Wells Fargo. The Autograph Journey credit card from Wells Fargo is built for travel. You can earn rewards wherever you book, your favorite hotel site, your go-to airline and more. You get five times points with hotels, four times with airlines, three times on restaurants, and other travel, and one point on other purchases. Whether it's a big vacation or a quick getaway, from booking your stay to that first meal when you arrive, you're turning your trips into rewards with the Autograph Journey credit card from Wells Fargo. Learn more at wellsfargo.com/autographjourney. Terms apply. Not a ton of movie news out there. Just take a look at the box office. You were gallivanting over the weekend, traveling the world.

Speaker 2:
[03:59] I did, where I was traveling the state of California. I had a lovely time. Thank you to the people of Berkeley.

Speaker 1:
[04:04] So did you go to the movies several times this weekend as well? OK, you didn't see what was happening.

Speaker 2:
[04:08] I did go on Thursday afternoon to a solo screening of You, Me and Tuscany. I was the only person there.

Speaker 1:
[04:15] I was supposed to see it this weekend. Couldn't go.

Speaker 2:
[04:17] You skipped that.

Speaker 1:
[04:18] And we're not discussing the film today. We will discuss it in a future episode. I was also quite busy this weekend. Super Mario Galaxy is still on top, unsurprising. I just wanted to talk quickly about Project Hail Mary and the drama. The holds were very strong for these movies. And Project Hail Mary is heading towards like $600, $700 million zone. And the drama is heading towards like $100, maybe $150 million zone. I know we've talked about it three weeks in a row. This is just awesome. This is good news.

Speaker 2:
[04:46] Very pro.

Speaker 1:
[04:47] It's kind of interesting to be heading into CinemaCon. We're both headed there later tonight, which is the annual Trade Federation meeting of various movie theater owners and the movie studios who present their wares to those groups. And I think that it's going to be like a positive vibe for a change in those rooms, I think. What do you think?

Speaker 2:
[05:07] I hope so. And I think that there is enough this summer, as we'll discuss, to look forward to that the indications are good. You know, there's some other sky falling in news. You know, that's never far away from us.

Speaker 1:
[05:22] Well, there's a giant merger that seems to threaten the entire totality of the business. I wonder how that will be addressed this week.

Speaker 2:
[05:30] I will say, at this time last year, we were getting ready to go to the Warner Brothers presentation and Mike and Pam were in the balance.

Speaker 1:
[05:42] Under fire.

Speaker 2:
[05:43] And I remember we were sitting through that presentation being like, well, this is pretty awkward. And then Warner Brothers ran the table.

Speaker 1:
[05:50] They did.

Speaker 2:
[05:51] So, you know, maybe it'll be good news. Maybe what we learn can be positive.

Speaker 1:
[05:57] I think last year, CinemaCon was at a week before Sinners was released.

Speaker 2:
[06:01] I think so.

Speaker 1:
[06:03] And then they went on that incredible run throughout the rest of the year. I don't know if any studio will have that kind of 2026. But anyway, just interesting that a couple of grown up movies with real movie stars and real ideas are thriving in this environment right now. I find it very promising. And so we're going to do the Summer Movie Preview game, the boom or bust game, which we did last year, which I thought was a fun experiment, but I kind of fucked up the rules a little bit, I think. Or maybe more specifically, the scoring. That was the thing that seemed confusing and obtuse to both you and I think many of the people at home. So I've refined it. Do you remember what we did last year? Have you looked at what we're doing this year?

Speaker 2:
[06:38] I did look at what we're doing this year.

Speaker 1:
[06:41] Does it make more sense to you?

Speaker 2:
[06:43] No, it's still just like I feel trapped in the confines of your mind. And as I was preparing for this diligently last night before I went to bed, I once again got angry at the experience of spending too long in that particular prison.

Speaker 1:
[06:56] It's full of wonderful couches.

Speaker 2:
[06:58] The number of times that I almost texted you just being like, what the fuck is wrong with you? Like, why, you know, and I'm guessing the Metacritic numbers, because this is how we do the game, right? We're going to project both the Box Office, Domestic, and the Metacritic score for these movies.

Speaker 1:
[07:14] Correct.

Speaker 2:
[07:15] And what we learned last year when doing our exercise, at least with respect to the Metacritic, is that it's actually a pretty narrow window, and it is sort of just like throwing numbers at it, you know, throwing darts at a dartboard.

Speaker 1:
[07:26] I thought we did fairly well on the Metacritic scores last year.

Speaker 2:
[07:29] Well, that's true, because it's not that wide a range.

Speaker 1:
[07:32] It's not, which indicates something to me interesting about the middle-ness of film criticism, because I didn't want to use the Rotten Tomatoes score because I find that it's very inflated and it's very inaccurate, and there are a lot of people that participate in that score. Metacritic is much more stringent about what the sources are and how they identify the score, but very rarely these days do you see a film get zero stars, a zero out of 100. You know, also on Metacritic, you very rarely see, I shouldn't say rarely, but you don't often see 100 out of 100. So everything tends to sit between 48 and 84.

Speaker 2:
[08:07] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[08:07] And so I've changed the scoring a little bit to reflect that. Likewise with The Box Office. So shall I describe what I've done? Okay, just like, just work with me here. Just be my partner, okay?

Speaker 2:
[08:23] I did this, I prepared. I'm here, I'm ready, I've got thoughts. At some point it did just become me thinking of numbers and it sounded nice in my head, you know?

Speaker 1:
[08:35] Did you do any research into previous scores and franchises?

Speaker 2:
[08:40] Not really so much Metacritic scores. I want Metacritic, I have just all vibes. And then Box Office, I did research.

Speaker 1:
[08:49] I mean, the reason we're doing this is so that we can talk about all the movies that are coming out for the next three months. That's the idea of the game. It's not really to be right about it, because I don't know how you can be right about this. I never would have guessed that the drama was heading towards $138 million worldwide. That's wonderful. It's nice to be surprised. Here's the scoring. The margin of difference between your guesses and the final data points determines your score for the film. The highest total score wins. So you get one point if your guess falls between within five points of the Metacritic prediction in any direction. OK, so if you guess 68 and a film comes in at 63, you get a point. Got it?

Speaker 2:
[09:25] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[09:27] Five points if you get your guess exactly right.

Speaker 2:
[09:30] OK.

Speaker 1:
[09:30] I don't remember how many we got exactly right last time. It might have been zero. This is a little bit difficult, hence the number of points you get. You get one point if you are within $50 million of the box office prediction. So you're going to get a lot of points here because a lot of these films are very small, so we're going to get within. This is just to boost the point total.

Speaker 2:
[09:47] OK.

Speaker 1:
[09:47] However, you will get five points if you are within $10 million. You will get 10 points if you are within $5 million. Do you think there should be a bonus if you hit it exactly?

Speaker 2:
[09:58] Sure.

Speaker 1:
[09:58] What would that bonus be?

Speaker 2:
[10:00] 20 points.

Speaker 1:
[10:01] 20 points for an exact right guess. I like it. You guys listening in the booth there?

Speaker 4:
[10:06] Absolutely.

Speaker 1:
[10:06] You'll be tallying all of these totals.

Speaker 2:
[10:09] Yeah. Is the booth ready? Because this is your math project.

Speaker 4:
[10:13] Well, the good thing for me here is that I don't really need to lock into this until like two months from now. So right now, I'm just kind of enjoying the vibe.

Speaker 1:
[10:20] We did do a check-in, I believe in July last year, just to see how things were going.

Speaker 2:
[10:25] But that's just going to be like a really shitty Sunday night at 10.30 for you guys when you're just there. Did they even teach you long division in your schools?

Speaker 4:
[10:35] Oh, come on, Amanda.

Speaker 2:
[10:36] I don't know.

Speaker 1:
[10:37] Really?

Speaker 2:
[10:37] Do you guys know cursive?

Speaker 4:
[10:39] Yes.

Speaker 2:
[10:39] Okay.

Speaker 1:
[10:40] Long division? Why would they not learn that?

Speaker 2:
[10:43] Because computers can do it all?

Speaker 1:
[10:44] He's 25.

Speaker 4:
[10:45] Do you think I'm 12?

Speaker 2:
[10:47] I don't know. Listen, there were way too many AI signs in the Bay Area. That's all I have to say. That's my feedback.

Speaker 1:
[10:53] That's unsurprising. So anyway, whoever gets the highest point total is the winner of the game. The winner, what does the winner get? A lovely steak dinner. But the twist is...

Speaker 2:
[11:05] Do you know how many either reorganizations of your closet, your DVD closet, and or Blu-ray, fine, whatever. I like to call it DVDs to annoy you. And or like fancy dinners. You have promised me and I've got none of them. Haven't been to Dunsmoor.

Speaker 1:
[11:20] When did you earn a fancy...

Speaker 2:
[11:21] We haven't been to...

Speaker 1:
[11:23] When are we going to Dunsmoor?

Speaker 2:
[11:24] I don't know. I haven't been to Dunsmoor. I haven't rearranged the closet.

Speaker 1:
[11:28] Well, look, the closet thing, that's on you. You want to make some time on my schedule, I'm available.

Speaker 2:
[11:35] That is the last...

Speaker 1:
[11:36] I haven't left my home.

Speaker 2:
[11:37] No, you are not. And that is the scheduling with you when I don't have to for professional purposes.

Speaker 1:
[11:43] I know, I know.

Speaker 2:
[11:44] I don't want to ever do it again.

Speaker 1:
[11:45] What's that about, you think?

Speaker 2:
[11:47] What, scheduling with you?

Speaker 1:
[11:47] I just, because I'm just doing a lot of stuff. I'm a busy person.

Speaker 2:
[11:50] And you're also such a great communicator, you know? So it really makes the planning so much easier.

Speaker 1:
[11:54] Why did you not describe this as the great communication of our times? This is the portal through which we talk.

Speaker 2:
[12:00] Right now is when I'm remembering that some event just like disappeared off our calendar with like no explanation. And you're not, you just canceled it. And I'm like, well, what happened? We can talk about that later, but this is how I'm...

Speaker 1:
[12:12] Oh yeah, I forgot to tell you.

Speaker 2:
[12:14] There we go.

Speaker 5:
[12:14] No, I did send a note.

Speaker 2:
[12:16] You sent a note that it was happening, but not that it was not happening.

Speaker 1:
[12:19] That's not correct. Check your email.

Speaker 2:
[12:21] No, I didn't get it.

Speaker 1:
[12:23] This is great podcasting.

Speaker 2:
[12:25] Anyway, so...

Speaker 1:
[12:25] We're going to have a very important meeting together.

Speaker 2:
[12:27] Okay, yes.

Speaker 1:
[12:28] And now that meeting has been rescheduled.

Speaker 2:
[12:30] Okay.

Speaker 1:
[12:30] And we will discuss it, not on the podcast. One other thing about this game, before we start playing it, streaming movies are not eligible. Here's my note to the studios at home. Put your movies in movie theaters. If you do, you'll be a part of this game. If you don't, you're not. So movies like... Here's a handful of bigger streaming movies that we know are coming. So Netflix has swapped and remarkably bright creatures. Amazon has Jack Ryan Ghost War. And The Dink is on Apple. That's a comedy. We won't be discussing those films. They will have Metacritic scores. They will not have box office totals. Anything you want to say? You think this is going to be a good summer. You indicated that you think it's going to be a healthy summer at the box office, quality-wise.

Speaker 2:
[13:18] I'm open. I've got a couple of high Metacritic scores. And I think that without spoiling any of my predictions, I think the overlap between box office and quality or I guess that like the meeting, the center of the Venn diagram, is going to be a little closer this year than it has a couple of years prior, which feels nice, right? Wouldn't it? If it happens?

Speaker 1:
[13:44] I mean, obviously, The Odyssey kind of stands alone in terms of, and that is definitively what you're describing, I think. How many more we have beyond that? I'm quite curious to see. How many good movies will make more than 100 million dollars? And good, obviously, being subjective from our point of view.

Speaker 2:
[14:00] I guess not that many when I look at it, but that's okay.

Speaker 1:
[14:04] I'm hopeful.

Speaker 2:
[14:05] Yeah, maybe one or two more.

Speaker 1:
[14:06] Okay. Should we begin?

Speaker 2:
[14:09] Let's. We have a lot of films. You didn't skimp.

Speaker 1:
[14:12] Anything that I think is either going to be in wide release with a strong release from a boutique studio or is an awards player, I put into the mix here. So, you know, every studio movie is here. Most of the Indies are here that I expect to get wide release. We're going to start with the big one. We're going to start with the real summer kickoff. Summer kickoff used to be Memorial Day. Now it's usually last week of April, first week of May. That film, of course, is The Devil Wears Prada 2. I ask you, what is your box office prediction? You can remember domestic. And what is your Metacritic score guess?

Speaker 2:
[14:52] Just to start things with a bang in this exercise, and also to be positive, and to put my hopes and my beliefs and my projections on one page together, I'm going big. So The Devil Wears Prada 2 is apparently tracking at 66 million for the first weekend. So that's that's good.

Speaker 1:
[15:17] That's very good.

Speaker 2:
[15:17] So I'm going to go with 210 domestic.

Speaker 1:
[15:20] Interesting. Now, that's a good guess.

Speaker 2:
[15:24] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[15:24] It's a big guess.

Speaker 2:
[15:25] As I said, I'm going big. I'm taking the over, as it were. I am, I guess, a little bit in a cheerleader, you know, aspect of this, even though I have not seen the movie. And if it's not good, I will be the most hurt of anyone.

Speaker 1:
[15:42] Of anyone. More than Meryl Streep.

Speaker 2:
[15:44] Yeah. Meryl's fine.

Speaker 1:
[15:46] Or David Frankel.

Speaker 2:
[15:47] Meryl is...

Speaker 1:
[15:48] Or Anne Hathaway. Or Emily Blunt. Or Stanley Tucci.

Speaker 2:
[15:52] No, I think they'll all be fine. Maybe Aline Brosch-McKenna, who's the writer of the previous, will also be a little disappointed. Everybody else is just, you know, on their global press tour.

Speaker 1:
[16:02] Okay, so just for context, the previous film made $124 million in 2006.

Speaker 2:
[16:08] Correct.

Speaker 1:
[16:09] Inflation has been skyrocketing since then. Also, this movie, as you pointed out, as Bill Simmons has pointed out, has become a big deal in that 20 years. It has become a proper franchise, off to rewatched. I went a little bit below you in that, but before I share mine, what is your Metacritic guess?

Speaker 2:
[16:27] 68.

Speaker 1:
[16:29] 68, now that to me is high.

Speaker 2:
[16:31] You think so?

Speaker 1:
[16:32] Yes, the previous film got a 62. And there is a potential for a downgrading quality here. I think the critics are suspicious of this one.

Speaker 2:
[16:41] I don't know how much I trust a Metacritic aggregation score of like pre-2010 movies, just because the, not that anyone was doing anything wrong, but it's just because like movie reviewing culture was so different in 2006 that what even counts in the type of criticism and everything.

Speaker 1:
[17:04] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[17:06] I don't know if I think it's like a one-to-one.

Speaker 1:
[17:08] I think there's something to that for sure. I think there was also something with this film where it was perceived as like 13 dresses, you know, that it was kind of flimsier.

Speaker 2:
[17:17] 27 dresses or...

Speaker 1:
[17:19] 13 going on 27 dresses?

Speaker 2:
[17:20] Yes, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[17:21] Got it, nailed it. As you can see, I love those films.

Speaker 2:
[17:24] Sure.

Speaker 1:
[17:26] I think it was discounted in a way. And so that might have spoken to the first wave of criticism. That being said...

Speaker 2:
[17:32] Are the discounting... discounters in the room with us right now, Sean?

Speaker 1:
[17:36] I was not reviewing films at that time, so I can't really say. I'm going into this film with an open mind. I have to revisit the original, because I have only seen it a couple of times. I guessed 184 million domestic.

Speaker 2:
[17:49] So I think that's good. The two triangulation points I used for this, which are in no way exact, were Thunderbolts, which was the same weekend in May.

Speaker 1:
[17:58] Sure. And both films are about trauma.

Speaker 2:
[18:01] And lower-grade franchises, you know? So sorry to Thunderbolts, Asterix, whatever's going on there. What's it called now?

Speaker 1:
[18:08] New Avengers.

Speaker 2:
[18:08] Sure, yeah. Congratulations to all of you. And that was around 180, domestic, I believe. And then I looked at Twisters, which is a legacy sequel that is different and obviously an action movie, but also bringing in a similar generation of movie viewers. And that was much higher. I think that's like the high 200s to 70, 280s. So I went in the middle.

Speaker 1:
[18:38] I mean, you just described two movies that are high action spectacle. And now I think for a lot of female audiences, this is high action spectacle.

Speaker 2:
[18:46] And I do think it's a different type of high action, but even the Anne Hathaway and Meryl Streep global press experience, all of the tie-ins, they are, it is a different type of movie and it's a different audience, which I think could actually be a positive, but it's big. This is...

Speaker 1:
[19:05] What even is a comp? Like a female-led, I mean, I guess anyone but you and the Housemaid are probably the two closest in terms of what audience they're shooting for.

Speaker 2:
[19:15] I guess so. I mean, I think they're shooting for the Barbie audience, but it's obviously not that big. And I'm like, let's not be crazy. But even the rollout and the way that they have been doing the fashion and the costumes and the...

Speaker 1:
[19:30] Do you think The Devil Wears Prada 2 appeals to 11-year-old girls?

Speaker 2:
[19:34] No, so that's why this is 200 million, why I'm going big with 200 million instead of 600 million. I know it's a much smaller audience, but that phenomenon and that audience, that concoction of a female audience that doesn't normally go to the movies for an event in this way.

Speaker 1:
[19:58] My Metacritic guess is 57. Just because sequels tend to come in behind originals, and I looked at the original. I didn't do that for every single film that was in a franchise, but in this case, I don't know, I think there's a little bit of skepticism based on some of the glossiness of the trailers, which I don't think are bad per se.

Speaker 2:
[20:18] I stopped watching them, I would just like to see the film.

Speaker 1:
[20:20] Okay, understood. So that's our first film. We only have 78 more to go. We probably won't spend that much time on all the other movies that we talk about here. The next film on our list is called Hokem. It is a new horror movie directed by Damian McCarthy. Neon is releasing it. It stars Adam Scott. It's about a man, I think, who gets trapped in a scary Irish hotel, which is kind of what it was like for you preparing for this episode.

Speaker 2:
[20:47] Yes. You go first.

Speaker 1:
[20:49] My box office guess was $18 million. My Metacritic guess is $78 million. Wow. Damian McCarthy has released two films that are available on Shudder that are very acclaimed. However, since I wrote down $78 million, I saw a couple of letter box reviews that were not very kind to this movie. I haven't seen it yet. A bunch of these movies we'll talk about I have seen. This is one I just haven't gotten out to a screening yet. I was just banking on my previous experience with the Damian McCarthy oeuvre to determine this number. What do you got?

Speaker 2:
[21:17] I bounced around on this box office, which is just anywhere from I think the 8 to 14 million dollar range, and I landed a 10.

Speaker 1:
[21:24] Okay. Seems reasonable.

Speaker 2:
[21:27] So 10 million, and I have a Metacritic of 62. Okay.

Speaker 1:
[21:31] There's a thing with the horror movies this summer, where every two weeks one of the studios is putting out a horror movie. So they've kind of like caught on to the wave that has been going on in the last 8 to 12 years. So we've got Lee Cronin's The Mummy coming out this Friday. We just had Faces of Death last weekend. On May 1st, we've got Hokem. On May 15th, we've got Obsession, which we will get to. On May 29th, we've got Backrooms. Yes. Most of these movies are coming from relatively new filmmakers, and they're trying to, who's the next? Philip O. Brothers, who's the next? Zach Craigor, who's the next? Jordan Peele. There's this attempt to filter these people up. I don't know if Damian McCarthy is going to get there, but I'm looking forward to the film. Okay, the next film on our list is called The Sheep Detectives, which is a new film from Amazon MGM about some detectives who are sheep.

Speaker 2:
[22:25] That's right.

Speaker 1:
[22:26] That is quite literally what the film is?

Speaker 2:
[22:28] Yes. It also stars Hugh Jackman and my beloved Emma Thompson.

Speaker 1:
[22:31] Yes. And a myriad of young stars.

Speaker 2:
[22:35] So this is, it's a cozy mystery. And it's an adaptation of a cozy mystery book. The comps for this have all been direct to streaming. So like literally every single one of them. So there's no real number. And that also did inflect my guess, which is an 8 million box office.

Speaker 1:
[22:54] Total.

Speaker 2:
[22:55] Total. No, and who's going to go see this respectfully?

Speaker 1:
[22:59] I think this movie is going to do okay.

Speaker 2:
[23:00] You do?

Speaker 1:
[23:01] Yeah. Because I think old people are going to be into this.

Speaker 2:
[23:03] I know, but even if you look at all of the recent old people movies, they're not... What's your guess?

Speaker 1:
[23:10] Fifty-one million dollars.

Speaker 2:
[23:12] That's absolutely insane.

Speaker 1:
[23:14] I don't know. It's like...

Speaker 2:
[23:15] Song Sung Blue...

Speaker 1:
[23:16] It's Talking Animals and The Mystery.

Speaker 2:
[23:18] Only did 39 million. No, I know.

Speaker 1:
[23:20] Song Sung Blue is a hard-to-watch melodrama.

Speaker 2:
[23:25] But that is sold as Hugh Jackman and Kate Hudson singing Neil Diamond songs at you in sparkly outfits. I don't know.

Speaker 1:
[23:31] It's a Talking Animal movie. I would guess that we probably land somewhere between us. I would guess, given this conversation, maybe we land at 27 million.

Speaker 2:
[23:41] Maybe.

Speaker 1:
[23:42] I mean, look at all the people in this movie. Hugh Jackman, Nicholas Kelton, Emma Thompson, Molly Gordon, Bryan Cranston, Nicholas Braun, Brett Goldstein, Regina Hall, Hong Chau. Like those are all voice performers.

Speaker 2:
[23:53] I'm a fan of all of those people.

Speaker 1:
[23:55] Okay.

Speaker 2:
[23:56] And I am also familiar with the cozy mystery genre. And like, it just needs, why is this not being released on Amazon?

Speaker 1:
[24:05] Well, because they're making a push towards theatrical.

Speaker 2:
[24:07] And they're trying to make money on these sheep. And I understand that Project Hail Mary worked, and I don't know if this one is going to.

Speaker 1:
[24:13] Sheep, you like them?

Speaker 2:
[24:15] Indifferent. Okay.

Speaker 1:
[24:16] Metacritic score, what did you guess?

Speaker 2:
[24:18] 63.

Speaker 1:
[24:19] I also guessed 63.

Speaker 2:
[24:20] There we go.

Speaker 1:
[24:21] How wonderful.

Speaker 2:
[24:22] Okay.

Speaker 1:
[24:22] The next film, I have no idea what to do with this movie. It is Billy Eilish, colon, hit me hard and soft, dash, the tour live. Not the tour, comma live, the tour live. Is the name of it the tour live? I have some questions about the grammatical choices in this film's title.

Speaker 2:
[24:39] Yeah, we need a copy corner with Craig Gaines.

Speaker 1:
[24:41] This film is directed by Billy Eilish and James Cameron.

Speaker 2:
[24:44] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[24:44] James Cameron, who has never made a film that has made less than $50 million, I think.

Speaker 2:
[24:49] Right.

Speaker 1:
[24:50] I think.

Speaker 2:
[24:52] Maybe Piranha Tube is spawning? I was going to say, I don't know what was going on there with the 80s, 90s early releases. Okay, it's your turn.

Speaker 1:
[25:01] I guessed $42 million.

Speaker 2:
[25:03] Oh, I went really big.

Speaker 1:
[25:04] You did.

Speaker 2:
[25:04] I went $160 million.

Speaker 1:
[25:07] You could be right. I don't know.

Speaker 2:
[25:09] I mean, I went Aris Tour and then Revised Down, but people, the children, they love Billy Eilish.

Speaker 1:
[25:15] Do they know this is happening, though?

Speaker 2:
[25:18] I have seen a lot of trailers for this on YouTube. While getting my nails done.

Speaker 1:
[25:22] I guess the movie is 3D, right?

Speaker 2:
[25:24] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[25:24] But it doesn't have IMAX screens, does it? Because it's coming out the same day as Mortal Kombat 2, which we'll get to in a moment.

Speaker 2:
[25:30] I don't know. What do you think Big Jim's up to in terms of?

Speaker 1:
[25:33] $160 million.

Speaker 2:
[25:34] Well, the Aris Tour made $180 million. People really...

Speaker 1:
[25:38] But Billy Eilish is no Taylor Swift when it comes to the...

Speaker 2:
[25:41] But still, she has more Oscars.

Speaker 1:
[25:45] You really believe in Big Jim.

Speaker 2:
[25:47] I believe if I have learned one thing, it is do not underestimate Big Jim. And if I have learned another thing, it is that Jack and Lucas' generation will give Billy Eilish her flowers at the expense of Dua Lipa whenever they need to.

Speaker 1:
[26:00] Two people I know who love Billy Eilish are my wife, who is not in Jack or Lucas' generation, and my daughter who is not in Jack and Lucas' generation. See?

Speaker 2:
[26:11] There you go. You're surrounded.

Speaker 1:
[26:12] There's no chance that Eileen brings Alice to see this movie. No chance.

Speaker 2:
[26:18] You don't know.

Speaker 1:
[26:18] She doesn't know it exists.

Speaker 2:
[26:20] Will you be in Cannes?

Speaker 1:
[26:22] Not yet.

Speaker 2:
[26:22] Oh, okay. I was gonna say, there's gonna be time to fill.

Speaker 1:
[26:25] Maybe I'll take them.

Speaker 2:
[26:26] There you go.

Speaker 1:
[26:26] It'll be a family outing and I'll contribute to that 160. Okay, I don't see that happening, but you know what? We're doing this because maybe it lands somewhere in the middle. Maybe it exceeds 160. That seems very hard for me to believe because of the number of films that are coming out in this month, but we'll see. My Metacritic guess is 71.

Speaker 2:
[26:43] Mine is 65.

Speaker 1:
[26:45] Okay. You know, James Cameron, a lot of the reviews of this will be...

Speaker 2:
[26:51] Polite?

Speaker 1:
[26:52] Yeah, and it will be like a little bit more fandom oriented, like the critics who raised their hand to take this one on are probably not doing it because they hate Billie Eilish.

Speaker 2:
[27:00] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[27:00] So we'll see what happens there. Okay, Mortal Kombat 2. Did you see the first Mortal Kombat?

Speaker 2:
[27:05] No, I didn't.

Speaker 1:
[27:06] I think you were on leave for that film.

Speaker 2:
[27:09] No, it's 2021, right?

Speaker 1:
[27:12] Yes.

Speaker 2:
[27:13] So I know.

Speaker 1:
[27:14] You just skipped it.

Speaker 2:
[27:15] I just skipped it. It was pandemic. I was pregnant for a lot of 2021. So, and also-

Speaker 1:
[27:20] I was also pregnant with the future of Mortal Kombat.

Speaker 2:
[27:23] Sure. Yeah, respectfully. This is not, I did occasionally play a Mortal Kombat like arcade game at the beach where we went to the snack bar. Who was your character of choice? Well, I don't, I didn't know their names.

Speaker 1:
[27:37] You have Scorpion energy.

Speaker 2:
[27:39] Okay, thank you.

Speaker 1:
[27:39] Do you know about Scorpion?

Speaker 2:
[27:40] No.

Speaker 1:
[27:42] He has the yellow fighting costume. He wears a mask. He throws like some sort of demonic hook tail at people.

Speaker 2:
[27:51] Okay, like a scorpion's tail?

Speaker 1:
[27:53] Like a scorpion's tail. And he says, get over here. And he pulls you towards them. And then he does something very violent. You know about how you conclude a battle in Mortal Kombat with a fatality?

Speaker 2:
[28:03] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[28:04] You can kill them, slice off their head, explode them, any number of brutal mutilations.

Speaker 2:
[28:10] Who are you in Mortal Kombat?

Speaker 1:
[28:13] Good question.

Speaker 2:
[28:13] Did you ever dress up as a Mortal Kombat character for...

Speaker 1:
[28:16] Raiden, perhaps? The mysterious figure who is able to channel the power of lightning?

Speaker 2:
[28:21] Okay.

Speaker 1:
[28:22] I think I'm getting that right. Is that accurate? Thank you. Yeah, Lucas gave me a huge thumbs up there.

Speaker 2:
[28:27] All right, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[28:29] The movie, this Mortal Kombat 2 movie, which was supposed to come out last year and is now coming out in the May window, is projected to make a lot of money. Carl Urban is the star. He plays the Johnny Cage character.

Speaker 2:
[28:41] Okay.

Speaker 1:
[28:42] What's your guess?

Speaker 2:
[28:45] I just wrote down a number. 60 million? I don't know.

Speaker 1:
[28:48] Okay. I wrote down 137 million. So you think that Billie Eilish is going to dominate Mortal Kombat 2?

Speaker 2:
[28:54] Yes, I do.

Speaker 6:
[28:55] Okay.

Speaker 1:
[28:55] I don't think that's the case, but I could be wrong. What's your Metacritic guess?

Speaker 2:
[28:59] 46.

Speaker 1:
[29:00] 44, I guess.

Speaker 2:
[29:01] Okay.

Speaker 1:
[29:02] I don't think this is going to be a critical darling. I do think it might gratify the people who were disappointed by the first Mortal Kombat movie, which was like the origin story of the Mortal Kombat tournament, instead of being just a series of guys saying, get over here, which I enjoyed. Yes. Thank you, Jack. Okay. May 15th.

Speaker 2:
[29:22] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[29:23] We have a handful of movies. The first one is Is God Is. Now, this is also a new film from Amazon MGM. It's directed by Alicia Harris. It stars Vivica A. Fox, Janelle Monae, Eric Alexander, Sterling K. Brown. It's about two sisters who go on a quest for revenge against their father. What'd you guess?

Speaker 2:
[29:47] I think it's your turn.

Speaker 1:
[29:47] It's my turn. I guessed 12 million box office, 74 million Metacritic.

Speaker 2:
[29:52] Wow. 74, not million.

Speaker 1:
[29:54] 74 million positive reviews.

Speaker 2:
[29:57] I guessed 11 million box office.

Speaker 1:
[29:59] Okay. Well, close.

Speaker 2:
[30:01] And then 57 Metacritic.

Speaker 1:
[30:04] They showed us a teaser of this last year. Do you remember it?

Speaker 2:
[30:07] Yeah, I do.

Speaker 1:
[30:08] It seemed like a very outsized, exploitation-y, Kill Bill style movie about two sisters who will stop at nothing to destroy their enemy. It's definitely my flavor of movie. Haven't seen the movie yet, so it's a little hard to say, but does seem like a challenging movie to drop right in the middle of May.

Speaker 2:
[30:24] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[30:26] Obsession, May 15th. I've just seen this movie.

Speaker 2:
[30:28] Right.

Speaker 1:
[30:28] I really enjoyed it. It's your turn to guess.

Speaker 2:
[30:33] I wrote down 15 million.

Speaker 1:
[30:35] Okay, I wrote down 42.

Speaker 2:
[30:36] Okay, that's great. You think this is the one that's gonna happen?

Speaker 1:
[30:39] It has a chance to break out.

Speaker 2:
[30:40] Okay.

Speaker 1:
[30:41] It's directed by a guy named Curry Barker. It played at TIFF last year. It's about a young man, I don't know what age he is, somewhere between 18 and 24, who is in love and infatuated with a close friend of his. And he wishes upon a special item for her to be obsessed with him. And his wish comes true. And that wish has tremendous consequences. Real classic monkey paw kind of a movie. Thought it was very effective. Metacritic score, 69.

Speaker 2:
[31:16] 66 is what I have. Pretty close.

Speaker 1:
[31:19] Kind of curious what you think about this movie. I think you might find it a little bit frustrating. But I had a grand old time with it.

Speaker 2:
[31:26] That's great. I know that there is going to be one horror movie that is your long legs or your weapons. But I don't know if I picked which of them will be. It does really feel like everyone's throwing spaghetti at the wall and one of them will be The Breakout.

Speaker 1:
[31:50] Yes, there's a lot in this here.

Speaker 2:
[31:51] I couldn't suss it out.

Speaker 1:
[31:53] Okay, let's suss out In the Gray.

Speaker 2:
[31:55] Okay.

Speaker 1:
[31:56] This is the 387th film from Guy Ritchie, all made in the last two years. Stacked cast, Henry Cavill, Ayaza Gonzalez, Jake Gyllenhaal, Rossman Pike. It's about a covert team of elite operatives getting up to some stuff.

Speaker 2:
[32:11] Yeah, like the other 12 movies?

Speaker 1:
[32:13] Yes, something he's interested in thematically, sort of like Scorsese with gangsters or Celine Siamma with the female identity in the modern times, but just for operatives hanging out doing stuff.

Speaker 2:
[32:26] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[32:26] That's what Guy Ritchie does.

Speaker 2:
[32:28] I am also interested in that premise. It is the execution that sometimes comes short.

Speaker 1:
[32:35] This movie doesn't feel real to me?

Speaker 2:
[32:36] No. What did you write down for box office?

Speaker 1:
[32:38] 37 million?

Speaker 2:
[32:39] I wrote down 18.

Speaker 1:
[32:41] It's possible?

Speaker 2:
[32:42] But I think it's because I looked at the last three to four Guy Richies. And one of them did break 30. And the rest were between 15 and 20.

Speaker 1:
[32:51] Okay. There was like the League of Ungentlemanly Warfare?

Speaker 2:
[32:54] Yes. I fell asleep during that.

Speaker 1:
[32:56] That was one.

Speaker 2:
[32:58] I think I was pregnant and I laid down on... That was before they redid the Regal Cinema closest to us. And I just was on several seats.

Speaker 1:
[33:06] That's very rude to Guy Ritchie.

Speaker 2:
[33:08] Well, the movie was rude to me.

Speaker 1:
[33:11] Okay. Fair enough.

Speaker 4:
[33:12] Amanda, I'm very curious because last year, we're kind of having the inverse of last year, where last year you were consistently saying bigger box office numbers than Sean, and this year it seems the exact opposite. I'm curious if there's anything...

Speaker 1:
[33:23] Except in the case of Billie Eilish.

Speaker 4:
[33:25] That is true. I was just curious if there's anything that informed that thinking. If you were looking back at last year's doc, if there's something you think that's different about this year's sleep.

Speaker 2:
[33:31] No, I was looking back at last year's box office. I mean, I end 2024, and I pretty much went by distributor and then type of movie and looked at all the comps and went in there. And often with the smaller movies was a bit generous. So I, you know, like for every... It's the way the box office is now, right? Like for every $500 million, though I don't even think we got a $500 million last year.

Speaker 1:
[34:02] Maybe one in the summer.

Speaker 2:
[34:04] There are a lot of movies that... I mean, Eddington made $10 million last year, you know?

Speaker 1:
[34:09] Yes. And yet it grows every day in statue.

Speaker 2:
[34:11] And a lot of the movies that we loved are under 15.

Speaker 1:
[34:16] Yeah, you're right that we did not get a $500 million movie. Lilo and Stitch made $423 million.

Speaker 2:
[34:20] So I think, especially with all of the small movies where, like the non-event, I was sort of unimaginative. I really am in the 15 to 20 million range for a lot of them.

Speaker 1:
[34:34] I think that's wise. I probably went a little bit over on too many things, including this one. I went 37.

Speaker 2:
[34:39] Okay.

Speaker 1:
[34:40] Just because it's like Jake Gyllenhaal and Henry Cavill blowing stuff up.

Speaker 2:
[34:43] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[34:44] To me, there's like a bar there, but I could be wrong.

Speaker 2:
[34:47] One of them did, maybe the League of Gentlemen was in the 30s, but I think The Covenant was 18.

Speaker 1:
[34:55] Yeah, speaking of Jake Gyllenhaal. CR and I saw that together, holding hands, thinking about the future of our country.

Speaker 2:
[34:59] I think that's beautiful.

Speaker 1:
[35:02] What's your Metacritic guess here?

Speaker 2:
[35:05] 37.

Speaker 1:
[35:06] I said 52.

Speaker 2:
[35:07] Okay.

Speaker 1:
[35:07] We'll see. I Love Boosters, Boots Riley's new film, his first feature since Sorry to Bother You, which was, I think, eight or nine years ago. This one comes out May 22nd. It stars our beloved Kiki Palmer. I guessed 18 million.

Speaker 2:
[35:23] 19 million.

Speaker 1:
[35:24] Interesting. I guessed 81 Metacritics.

Speaker 2:
[35:26] Oh, good. That's high.

Speaker 1:
[35:27] It had good reviews out of South By.

Speaker 2:
[35:29] I'm excited to see it. I'm guessing 64.

Speaker 1:
[35:32] Okay.

Speaker 2:
[35:34] Just because it's about the fashion world, sort of, right?

Speaker 1:
[35:38] Yes, it is.

Speaker 4:
[35:38] Sort of, yes.

Speaker 2:
[35:39] And I just, and it seems, in the same way that you think that critics are gonna be resistant to The Devil Wears Prada 2, people don't take that seriously.

Speaker 1:
[35:52] It's a good point. What was Sorry to Bother You's Metacritic score?

Speaker 4:
[35:55] I'll look it up right now.

Speaker 1:
[35:56] I'll look that up quickly. I'm quite curious. All right. The next film is a movie called Passenger, which was recently dated into this spot. Andre Ovevredal, who is a Norwegian director, who's made some horror movies in recent years, including The Last Voyage of the Demeter and Scary Stories to Tell in the Dark. Here's the premise of this new movie, which stars a bunch of people I've not heard of and Melissa Leo. A few weeks into their van life adventure, a young couple witnesses a horrific accident that leaves the driver dead. Soon, they're being pursued by a demonic stalker who's impossible to outrun and follows them wherever they go. This movie kind of popped up out of nowhere. I haven't seen a trailer. It's coming out in a month.

Speaker 2:
[36:40] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[36:41] What's your guess?

Speaker 2:
[36:43] Nine million?

Speaker 1:
[36:44] I already said 12.

Speaker 2:
[36:45] Okay.

Speaker 1:
[36:46] Metacritic?

Speaker 2:
[36:47] 52.

Speaker 1:
[36:48] 34.

Speaker 2:
[36:48] Okay.

Speaker 1:
[36:49] Now, Averdahl got really good reviews for Scary Stories to Tell in the Dark, or pretty good reviews, I should say. Much less so for Voyage of the Demeter. Do you remember what that was?

Speaker 2:
[36:58] No, but I read about it last night and I have since forgotten.

Speaker 1:
[37:01] It was the first chapter of Bram Stoker's Dracula.

Speaker 2:
[37:06] Oh, right. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[37:08] Anyway.

Speaker 2:
[37:09] Okay.

Speaker 1:
[37:10] The next film is a big one.

Speaker 2:
[37:11] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[37:12] It's Star Wars, Colin, The Mandalorian and Grogu.

Speaker 2:
[37:15] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[37:15] It comes out on May 22nd, Memorial Day weekend. And I mean, the streets are in tears. I can't believe this is happening. I can't believe this film is coming to us. I've been waiting seven long years for a new Star Wars film, they're saying.

Speaker 2:
[37:32] Right.

Speaker 1:
[37:33] And through those tears, yeah, they're feeling redeemed. They're feeling seen. They're feeling understood. They're feeling a sense of deliverance because they love Star Wars and they love Star Wars in the cinema.

Speaker 2:
[37:47] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[37:48] And I predict $275 million for this movie domestically.

Speaker 2:
[37:52] Wow. That's so low.

Speaker 1:
[37:54] Yes.

Speaker 2:
[37:54] Because you think that all of your cohort will be mad?

Speaker 1:
[37:59] I don't think they'll be mad.

Speaker 2:
[38:00] All the Chris Rians of the world?

Speaker 1:
[38:01] I think the-

Speaker 2:
[38:02] Here's the thing. Everyone's like, oh, Chris Ryan's not going to see Mandalorian and Grogu. Yes, he is with my child. So there are a lot of people who are going to try to-

Speaker 6:
[38:11] You make that sound like a threat.

Speaker 2:
[38:13] Well, you know, I haven't bought the tickets yet, but I probably need to lock those down. I know that there's resistance. I know that among the community.

Speaker 1:
[38:22] What community?

Speaker 2:
[38:24] Of people who are older than five, who are really, really into Star Wars.

Speaker 1:
[38:30] Have you ever wished anyone may the fourth be with you?

Speaker 2:
[38:34] No.

Speaker 1:
[38:34] On May 4th?

Speaker 2:
[38:35] I have not. When you were saying that, I was like, is today May 4th?

Speaker 1:
[38:44] No. I'm making some plans for the week of May 4th with my family.

Speaker 2:
[38:48] That's nice. That's beautiful. Listen, Star Wars is big in our house. Both children can now say Grogu or Grogo. Sweet. I just went with Lilo and Stitch numbers, so I'm going 420. 421 is actually what I wrote down because I found myself not wanting any more round numbers.

Speaker 1:
[39:06] My only concern here, my primary concern here, is that this is committing a sin that Marvel has struggled with, which is that they have made something that is connected to a TV show, and that not everybody is up on the TV show, and that that sometimes limits the audience for who decides to go out to see a movie like this. Now, it is the first Star Wars movie in forever. I may be making a huge mistake and it may be a $700 million movie domestically, but I'm not so sure. I have my doubts. What's your Metacritic score for this movie?

Speaker 2:
[39:35] 48.

Speaker 1:
[39:36] I have 52.

Speaker 2:
[39:37] Okay.

Speaker 1:
[39:37] John Favreau directed this. He's directed many movies that people like.

Speaker 2:
[39:42] People like Sigourney Weaver. They like Grogu.

Speaker 1:
[39:45] I don't think Sigourney Weaver is going to be in a lot of the movie.

Speaker 2:
[39:47] Okay, don't come out with that.

Speaker 1:
[39:49] She should play her Navi character. Kiri, is that her name? In this film. That would be interesting. Could we cross over?

Speaker 2:
[39:57] Griffin and David explaining Sigourney Weaver's character journey in the Avatar films on Blank Check was very special to me.

Speaker 1:
[40:05] Yeah, well, it's like the ninth time they've done it, though. So it's not as though it was novel. Okay. Your Metacritic score was 48?

Speaker 2:
[40:13] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[40:14] So you think this is going to work?

Speaker 2:
[40:17] I think box office-wise, financially, yes. I mean, listen, I have a skewed perspective, which is like two tiny men in my house yelling, grow goo, grow goo, grow goo. But I'm not, you know, it's Star Wars. It's pretty powerful. We haven't talked about it.

Speaker 1:
[40:34] Really?

Speaker 2:
[40:35] Yeah, but I wouldn't say that we talk a lot about Star Wars in our adult life.

Speaker 1:
[40:39] Well, that's something that my relationship has that yours doesn't.

Speaker 2:
[40:45] Okay.

Speaker 1:
[40:45] May 29th, Pressure. This is the new World War II film. This is about the meteorologist who determined the correct day to launch D-Day.

Speaker 2:
[40:54] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[40:54] That's the premise.

Speaker 2:
[40:55] Are they releasing it on D-Day or like a week before?

Speaker 1:
[40:59] Around that time. Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[41:01] They're doing the soft release and then windowing.

Speaker 1:
[41:05] Maybe early access screening for influencers. How many World War II influencers do you think there are? That's kind of a lane for me I could lean into in the second half of my life. Just a guy who knows a lot about that stuff, but maybe only in a very narrow way. I only know about how Belgium worked during World War II.

Speaker 2:
[41:23] Do you know a lot about Belgium?

Speaker 1:
[41:24] I don't.

Speaker 2:
[41:25] Generally.

Speaker 1:
[41:25] But I could learn.

Speaker 2:
[41:26] Do you speak Flemish?

Speaker 1:
[41:27] I don't. No. Not a lick.

Speaker 2:
[41:29] That would be incredible if you knew Lenin's full Russian name and spoke Flemish.

Speaker 1:
[41:35] No, I don't know any Flemish, unfortunately. What's your prediction on pressure?

Speaker 2:
[41:39] I looked up the box office for Nuremberg, which was $14 million, so that is what I'm predicting.

Speaker 1:
[41:44] I wrote $27 million just because it's a summer release.

Speaker 2:
[41:48] Okay, and you think all the old people are just like, well, it stays late later, so I can drive to the theater.

Speaker 1:
[41:54] Honestly, yes. Is Brendan Fraser a bigger draw than Russell Crowe right now? Probably not, but maybe. Also, what's more appealing, D-Day or the Nuremberg trials? As an idea. I would say the great attack more so than the aftermath trial.

Speaker 2:
[42:14] But meteorology movie or courtroom drama?

Speaker 1:
[42:19] But see, that's 1989 talking.

Speaker 2:
[42:21] Okay.

Speaker 1:
[42:22] I'm talking about, meteorology is big now.

Speaker 2:
[42:24] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[42:24] You've been to weather.com, you looked at those apps.

Speaker 2:
[42:26] No, I've moved on to Weather Underground because AI hasn't ruined it because it uses your local weather station.

Speaker 1:
[42:34] Meaning you're part of the revolutionary force that is looking to upend American power structures?

Speaker 2:
[42:39] I think no, I wish.

Speaker 1:
[42:41] What is Weather Underground?

Speaker 2:
[42:43] It's an app. Am I saying it right?

Speaker 1:
[42:44] They named an app after the Weather Underground? That can't be right.

Speaker 2:
[42:48] Well, I guess it's WonderGround, which I couldn't really say outside, so I can't say out loud, so I was ascribing to them politics or leadership that perhaps they don't have. Yeah, WonderGround.

Speaker 1:
[43:02] WonderGround, not underground. Did you say WonderGround?

Speaker 2:
[43:07] No, I said Weather Underground, because saying WonderGround out loud is really stupid. What is happening? Because Weather Underground has my respect.

Speaker 1:
[43:16] It's like, have you seen my new social media app, Military Honda?

Speaker 2:
[43:21] Okay. Anyway, WonderGround uses local stations, so because AI has ruined the traditional weather apps, as you know.

Speaker 1:
[43:29] Metacritic score for pressure?

Speaker 2:
[43:32] Hmm, 61?

Speaker 1:
[43:34] That's exactly what I guessed.

Speaker 2:
[43:36] There we go.

Speaker 1:
[43:37] It's very funny. The Breadwinner. This is the debut lead feature film from the highly successful comedian, Nate Bargatze.

Speaker 2:
[43:45] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[43:45] A comedian whose work I've enjoyed over the years. The movie comes out May 29th. What's your box office prediction?

Speaker 2:
[43:51] 35 million.

Speaker 1:
[43:53] I wrote down 52, which feels like a reach. Because the film to me does not look good. However, Nate Bargatze is straight up selling out stadiums. I mean, he is huge.

Speaker 2:
[44:02] But there is not, I even looked for recent comps of comedians making that, which has not happened in the last few years. It does not happen that often.

Speaker 1:
[44:12] Used to be one of the surefire things we can expect at the movies.

Speaker 2:
[44:15] You know, and I was like, I looked at the last movie that John Mulaney was in was like the Chippendale movie.

Speaker 1:
[44:22] Rescue Rangers.

Speaker 2:
[44:23] Yeah, Rescue Rangers, which he voiced, which did not make 35 million. So I just wrote a number down.

Speaker 1:
[44:30] I feel like he's making a bid for like the Kevin James corner. And Kevin James was in an Angel Studios movie this year, I think called Solo Mia, which I think made like $27 million. It did pretty good business. So like there is definitely an audience for this kind of thing. This is a family comedy about a man whose wife, I think, wins something on Shark Tank. And so she has to leave for like a month. And he has to take care of, I think, three daughters and their home, while their home is under construction. Things go terribly awry. My Metacritic score is 27.

Speaker 2:
[45:01] Wow. Mine is, well, this seems too high now. 48 is what I'll say.

Speaker 1:
[45:07] May 29th, Tuner, new thriller from Daniel Rohr. The film stars Leo Woodall and Dustin Hoffman. It's a movie about a piano tuner who becomes entrenched in a world of crime. Box office, I'm going nine million.

Speaker 2:
[45:25] Oh, I went bigger on this one. Okay. I guess the Leo Woodall of it all, and there are some other people. I feel like I've been hearing about this.

Speaker 1:
[45:34] Havana Rose Lue is in it.

Speaker 2:
[45:35] Yeah, I went 28 million.

Speaker 1:
[45:36] I hope that happens having seen the movie. I think it's hard. It's an indie studio. It's Black Bear's putting it out. It's gonna be a little more challenging to get in front of people. They've had some troubles.

Speaker 2:
[45:45] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[45:46] But it's a really good movie. So I hope people check it out.

Speaker 2:
[45:49] I picked this as the one that would go relatively viral as far as these movies go.

Speaker 1:
[45:53] I hope so. Metacritic score, I guess 74.

Speaker 2:
[45:56] That's exactly what I have.

Speaker 1:
[45:57] Wow, we've matched on a lot of these. I think three Metacritic scores so far. Okay, May 29th, Back Rooms.

Speaker 2:
[46:02] Yeah, I did finally see this trailer.

Speaker 1:
[46:04] What did you think about it?

Speaker 2:
[46:06] Well, again, it's one that I saw as a YouTube ad at the nail salon. And on YouTube with those specs really just looked like a YouTube movie.

Speaker 1:
[46:20] Okay, so I have not watched the YouTube video that this is based on that Cain Parsons made when he was a teenager. I think I'm going to watch it beforehand. It's very popular. It went viral. And it does look similar to the way that the film looks, but the film is obviously shot with different cameras and it has movie stars in it like Renata Reinsfah and Choo Chow as before. So I'm really looking forward to this. There's just something in my gut that tells me that this is the one in terms of the horror movie. Because I think that there's a very young audience that is very tapped into this. It's also an A24 film. I think it's been marketed very well thus far. What's your guess on the box office for this?

Speaker 2:
[46:57] So I did 16 million.

Speaker 1:
[46:59] Okay, I guess 67 million.

Speaker 2:
[47:01] That is like, that would be A24's, what, third biggest movie ever?

Speaker 1:
[47:07] Probably fourth or fifth.

Speaker 2:
[47:08] Okay. I mean, if you think that's where it's gonna go.

Speaker 1:
[47:11] I got a feeling.

Speaker 2:
[47:12] Okay.

Speaker 1:
[47:13] I just got a gut feeling about it. I could be wrong. I think it's kind of a weird time too, because how is that audience being served? You know, you've got the Star Wars movie, which is kind of playing a little younger. And so you've got this two week, three week period after Mortal Kombat 2, where that just seems like a big fit for them. And then after that, we'll get right into what are going to be the June 5th movies. And I think they're all a little soft. I do too.

Speaker 4:
[47:40] 67 Million Domestic would be A24's fourth biggest film behind Civil War at 68 and right above Uncut Gems at 50.

Speaker 2:
[47:49] Wow. All right.

Speaker 1:
[47:52] Just a guess. My Metacritic guess is 82.

Speaker 2:
[47:55] Mine is 61.

Speaker 1:
[47:57] So you're not a believer in this movie. Good to know.

Speaker 2:
[47:59] I mean, what is interesting about it is that I only saw it in its natural habitat, which is a YouTube ad. And I was like, I don't know. But maybe it'll be great on film. I got no skin in the game.

Speaker 1:
[48:11] Haven't seen it. Just want something like this to be good. June 5th, Masters of the Universe.

Speaker 2:
[48:17] Yeah. How are you doing? How are you feeling?

Speaker 1:
[48:20] I've got some concerns. I've got some real concerns. You know, Travis Knight's made a lot of good movies. He made the Bumblebee film you recently referenced. Right. He made many stop motion animation films for his studio, Leica. I think he's super talented. The son of Phil Knight, the Nike founder.

Speaker 2:
[48:37] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[48:38] I guessed $88 million for the box office.

Speaker 2:
[48:40] I guessed $90 million.

Speaker 1:
[48:41] We're very close. Now, this I think would be considered a disappointment.

Speaker 2:
[48:45] Based on what I know about the budget and your reactions in the room at last year's Cinemacon.

Speaker 1:
[48:52] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[48:53] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[48:54] I have been told that the trailer is not properly communicating the tone of the film, which is a little bit more of a comedy.

Speaker 2:
[49:01] Okay.

Speaker 1:
[49:01] And that they're giving real like, this man must pick up this sword to rule the land, which is of course in the text of He-Man. But even the He-Man cartoon, which I adored as a five-year-old, had a real camp quality to it. And if they don't hit the camp on this, I'm going to be worried. Also Jared Leto, not doing the Skeletor voice. I don't know if you're familiar with the Skeletor voice, but he plays the villain in this movie. There's a very specific Skeletor voice.

Speaker 2:
[49:25] Do it now.

Speaker 1:
[49:26] I really couldn't if I tried. It's in a register I can't reach.

Speaker 2:
[49:30] High or low?

Speaker 1:
[49:31] High.

Speaker 2:
[49:31] Oh, so it's sort of like the-

Speaker 1:
[49:33] He's like a maniacal, annoying-

Speaker 2:
[49:35] Like the Skin of a Marine clique.

Speaker 5:
[49:36] Hello, child!

Speaker 1:
[49:38] Not quite, but you're not that far off. Okay, what's your Metacritic guess on this?

Speaker 2:
[49:43] My Metacritic guess is 49! Don't even know what Skin of a Skeletor is.

Speaker 1:
[49:52] Do you haven't seen Skin of a Marine?

Speaker 2:
[49:54] No.

Speaker 1:
[49:55] Will you see Masters of the Universe?

Speaker 2:
[49:58] If you invite me.

Speaker 1:
[50:00] Okay, we'll see about that.

Speaker 2:
[50:02] But you won't because you're like, I have to have a safe space for this to talk about my feelings and about the human.

Speaker 1:
[50:06] That is what I said.

Speaker 2:
[50:07] Do you think Knox would like it?

Speaker 1:
[50:09] I do.

Speaker 2:
[50:09] Okay, well, you guys can go.

Speaker 1:
[50:11] Okay, actually, that would be fun. Unless it's terrible and then Knox has to see me sob in the theater as my childhood is destroyed. My Metacritic S is 55.

Speaker 2:
[50:21] Okay.

Speaker 1:
[50:22] Next film, June 5th, Power Ballad. This movie debuted at South by Southwest. I just saw it this weekend.

Speaker 2:
[50:26] Okay.

Speaker 1:
[50:26] It was okay. I don't want to spoil my review.

Speaker 2:
[50:29] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[50:30] New film from John Carney, of course, a musical. It's got a cool premise. Premise is there is a never quite made it singer songwriter played by Paul Rudd who has moved to Ireland. He has a family there. He's playing an American man and he performs in a wedding cover band in Ireland and does weddings. And one night, randomly at a wedding, a huge pop star is a former boy band member who's played in the film by Nick Jonas, shows up to perform at the band. They strike up a connection and the Paul Rudd character shares a song that he's written with the pop star. And months go by and then all of a sudden that song that he shared with him, he hears on the radio and it's being performed by the boy band kid who's having a huge come back with this song. And then the film is about the guy's quest to get credit, get acknowledgement for something that he couldn't get throughout his career as kind of a never was. I guess 26 million for Box Office.

Speaker 2:
[51:24] I guess 16 million.

Speaker 1:
[51:26] I think maybe you might be more right than I am. We'll see. Lionsgate film. Metacritic, I guess 71.

Speaker 2:
[51:32] 74.

Speaker 1:
[51:33] Okay. John Carney usually does pretty good. This was no once is what I'll say.

Speaker 5:
[51:38] This episode is brought to you by Tax Act. Taxes, trust me, they sound far more complex than they actually are. And it's all thanks to Tax Act. They make it easy to do taxes online, offering step-by-step guidance so you can finish your taxes ahead of the April 15th deadline and get your maximum refund guaranteed. If you get stuck, just add Expert Assist, get unlimited help from a credentialed U.S.-based tax expert. Visit taxact.com to learn more. This episode is brought to you by Tax Act. Taxes, trust me, they sound far more complex than they actually are, and it's all thanks to Tax Act. They make it easy to do taxes online, offering step-by-step guidance so you can finish your taxes ahead of the April 15th deadline and get your maximum refund guaranteed. If you get stuck, just add Expert Assist, get unlimited help from a credentialed U.S.-based tax expert. Visit taxact.com to learn more.

Speaker 1:
[52:36] June 5th again, Scary Movie. This is either the sixth or the seventh Scary Movie film. How many of them have you seen?

Speaker 2:
[52:44] The first.

Speaker 1:
[52:45] That's it.

Speaker 2:
[52:45] So one.

Speaker 1:
[52:46] Okay. Did you enjoy it?

Speaker 2:
[52:47] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[52:48] Okay. I love the Scary Movies. I guessed $84 million for this movie because this is a built-in brand that hasn't been around in a while. I compare it to Final Destination Bloodlines with the like, oh, I forgot how fun it is to see these movies in movie theaters. I could be wrong about that.

Speaker 2:
[53:05] That's smart. I want $52 million, which is lower but not like disastrous.

Speaker 1:
[53:12] Yeah, that seems reasonable.

Speaker 2:
[53:13] That people who are excited to go see it will go see it.

Speaker 1:
[53:16] One thing in this movie's favor, I think, is just that like everybody came back. Anna Faris came back. Regina Hall came back. All the people who were known for these movies came back. So we'll see. Metacritic, I guessed $52.

Speaker 2:
[53:26] $54.

Speaker 1:
[53:26] Okay. We're pretty close on that one. June 12th Disclosure Day.

Speaker 2:
[53:31] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[53:32] Steven Spielberg's new film.

Speaker 2:
[53:33] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[53:34] Shrouded in Secrecy. This is a hard one.

Speaker 2:
[53:40] I went back and forth.

Speaker 1:
[53:41] Really hard one.

Speaker 2:
[53:42] Because it's an original, but it is sci-fi. Spielberg has been not on a huge box office streak the last 10 years, but also he's Steven Spielberg. Yep. Many movie stars, but they have to keep the reveal. It's sort of a marketing challenge just in terms of what is in the movie and what you can tell people. So I went, I wish I could remember the math and the triangulation I used. I did 165.

Speaker 1:
[54:17] Oh, that's big.

Speaker 2:
[54:19] I went big.

Speaker 1:
[54:20] Okay.

Speaker 2:
[54:21] I thought that, because as Jack observed and kind of, you're doing the math, like, the smaller things are going to be small. And I think the bigger things will get at least some attention. I mean, you know, 165 is still like, I'm projecting it lower than Devil Wears Browder 2.

Speaker 1:
[54:40] Right. No, and I think wisely. Um, I went 121.

Speaker 2:
[54:45] Okay.

Speaker 1:
[54:46] The thing is, is I do think that the film can play overseas as much as here. Um, I mean, Ready Player One only made 137 million. And that was pre-branded IP.

Speaker 2:
[54:57] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[54:58] So I looked at that and thought about that a little bit.

Speaker 2:
[55:01] But Ready Player One, even at the time, well, first of all, it doesn't have any of the, like, the movie stars. And it, there's a difference between aliens and robots and whatever is going on over there. And it also had a little bit of, like, built-in backlash, I think.

Speaker 1:
[55:21] It did.

Speaker 2:
[55:22] So...

Speaker 1:
[55:22] It wasn't very well-reviewed.

Speaker 2:
[55:23] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[55:24] Although I kind of, I did enjoy it at the time. And I think I might have even written about it. This is very much like a much more serious state of affairs. And I think if the film is able to really tap into the anxiety of UAPs, then they'll be able to really do some business.

Speaker 2:
[55:41] And to... Your good friend Steven, our third chair, is just out there being like, I believe in aliens, you know? He's like, he's doing it.

Speaker 1:
[55:48] He knows how to sell.

Speaker 2:
[55:48] He's working.

Speaker 1:
[55:49] I guessed 74 for Metacritic.

Speaker 2:
[55:52] I guessed 83.

Speaker 1:
[55:54] I would guess we're gonna end up somewhere in the middle of that. This is a challenging genre to nail if you're not like Denis Villeneuve right now in terms of the critics.

Speaker 2:
[56:04] He is Steven Spielberg. And the last few...

Speaker 1:
[56:07] I think I'm undershooting to protect myself.

Speaker 2:
[56:09] I think that's fine. The last few Spielberg movies have been critically beloved.

Speaker 1:
[56:15] True, especially West Side Story.

Speaker 2:
[56:18] And Fablemen's.

Speaker 1:
[56:19] Yeah, Fablemen's did very well too. This is, it's more of a swing in a big genre like this, but we'll see. The next film, there's only, the one thing that is in this movie's favor is that everybody cleared out for it. There's only one other movie coming out on June 12th that's called Stop That Train. It's a comedy starring RuPaul directed by Adam Shankman. I guess 16 million.

Speaker 2:
[56:38] I guess 3 million.

Speaker 1:
[56:39] Okay. You could be right. It's counter programming obviously. I didn't even watch the trailer for this yet. It just came out last week. I guessed 43 for Metacritic.

Speaker 2:
[56:48] I guessed 47. There we are.

Speaker 1:
[56:51] Next film is Toy Story 5.

Speaker 2:
[56:54] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[56:55] The Toy Story films have been very consistent at the box office. Did you look at the history at all?

Speaker 2:
[57:01] I did. A lot of money.

Speaker 1:
[57:03] This film comes out June 19th. I guessed $401 million.

Speaker 2:
[57:07] I guess $503 million.

Speaker 1:
[57:09] Has the Toy Story movie crossed 500 before domestically?

Speaker 2:
[57:12] No, but Inside Out 2 was such a banger. It was over 600 million. I think just the breakdown of the kids of it all and what we have seen about kids movies with recognizable IP built in, they're doing well. So I rounded up slightly from Lilo and Stitch and Minecraft and some other stuff.

Speaker 1:
[57:42] You might be right. This might be huge.

Speaker 2:
[57:44] It's also just iPad the villain, really smart.

Speaker 1:
[57:46] I agree. It looks good. My daughter's really pumped about it. My Metacritic guess is 89.

Speaker 2:
[57:51] Mine's, wow. Okay.

Speaker 1:
[57:53] That's pretty much in the median of the Toy Story films. They're all between 86, 84 and 92. You got to remember the first Toy Story film, one of the best reviewed movies of all time.

Speaker 2:
[58:04] Yeah. I know that Toy Story 3 is Tarantino's number one. Yeah. I want 78, which is not bad, but.

Speaker 1:
[58:11] Interesting. That would be a low for the Toy Story movies.

Speaker 2:
[58:14] You know.

Speaker 1:
[58:16] A lot riding on that movie for the health of this summer, actually. If it's like a two and a half billion dollar movie, I don't know. Where did Inside Out 2 get to? Did it get to two billion?

Speaker 2:
[58:24] No, I think it was like 1.6 or something.

Speaker 1:
[58:29] Be very curious to see how many legs the how the legs are on that movie.

Speaker 2:
[58:33] OK.

Speaker 1:
[58:33] And the next movie is The Death of Robin Hood on June 19th.

Speaker 2:
[58:36] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[58:36] This is a revisionist portrait of the bandit, the English bandit. Robin Hood, starring Hugh Jackman and Jodie Comer.

Speaker 2:
[58:44] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[58:45] Also an A24 film. I guess 26 million.

Speaker 2:
[58:48] I guess 12 million.

Speaker 1:
[58:49] That wouldn't be good.

Speaker 2:
[58:50] No, but, you know, there are the A24 experiments that work and there are the ones that do not. And I don't know.

Speaker 1:
[59:00] This comes from Michael Sarnowski who directed Pig and A Quiet Place Day One.

Speaker 2:
[59:04] I like those films.

Speaker 1:
[59:05] Yeah. I guess 66 Metacritic.

Speaker 2:
[59:08] 64.

Speaker 1:
[59:09] Girls Like Girls, which is a new coming of age dramedy from Focus is coming out June 19th. We'll see probably a little bit more about it at CinemaCon shortly. I guess 9 million.

Speaker 2:
[59:21] I guessed 5 million.

Speaker 1:
[59:22] Metacritic score 78.

Speaker 2:
[59:24] 58.

Speaker 1:
[59:25] Damn. Not feeling it.

Speaker 2:
[59:27] Well.

Speaker 1:
[59:28] Is it because it has girls in it? Yeah, that's it.

Speaker 2:
[59:29] It's because it's only girls. That you know.

Speaker 1:
[59:31] It's tough. Haley Kielko is the director of this film. All right. Now, these are tricky, these next two. We got two movies on June 26th. Oh, did I forget one? I think I forgot one.

Speaker 2:
[59:47] What did you forget?

Speaker 1:
[59:48] I think I forgot The Invite.

Speaker 2:
[59:50] Oh, you did forget The Invite.

Speaker 1:
[59:52] Let's add The Invite as well, because we have three movies coming on June 26th.

Speaker 2:
[59:56] Okay.

Speaker 1:
[59:57] Let's just add that. And in real time, we're going to be able to guess what we think the scores in the box office are. Let's start with Supergirl while you're thinking about The Invite. Supergirl, new DCU movie, directed by Craig Gillespie, starring Millie Alcock. Is that her name?

Speaker 2:
[60:14] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[60:15] From House of the Dragon?

Speaker 2:
[60:16] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[60:17] The titular girl that is super. Got some worries about this movie myself.

Speaker 2:
[60:23] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[60:24] I guess 159 million.

Speaker 2:
[60:27] I guessed 190 because I think that once again, I just looked at what Thunderbolts made. There was maybe another even, I can't remember my other comp. I don't know. It's the one word title where it is in the title, something very recognizable. Superman, Supergirl. It's good marketing. There's a dog. People like the dog.

Speaker 1:
[60:57] Got some concerns.

Speaker 2:
[60:59] Your daughter is really excited?

Speaker 1:
[61:01] I'm not. This movie looks very violent. Well, I'm not sure if I want to put her in this. Because we've been watching the live action Spider-Man movies, the Tom Holland ones. They do have violence in them, but they do have a cartoon quality. This had like a, she's shooting lasers out of her eyes at a thousand robots kind of energy that like, even the Star Wars films don't really glance at. So I'm a little worried about that.

Speaker 2:
[61:23] But she knows about it.

Speaker 1:
[61:24] She does. She said, who is that? That's my friend. Metacritic score of 50.

Speaker 2:
[61:30] 53.

Speaker 1:
[61:31] Okay. Jackass, five.

Speaker 2:
[61:33] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[61:34] Now the Jackass films have done very well at the box office. Surprisingly well and very sturdy. The most recent film actually did very good business. There's not as much pre-release hype for this movie right now. I'm wondering if it will be one of the centerpiece things we see from Paramount at CinemaCon later this week. What'd you guess?

Speaker 2:
[61:54] 60 million.

Speaker 1:
[61:55] I guess 81 million.

Speaker 2:
[61:57] Okay. I mean, we're not that far away.

Speaker 1:
[62:00] You never know. Metacritic?

Speaker 2:
[62:03] 56, but that's their review, not mine.

Speaker 1:
[62:06] Right. I guess 64. Greatly looking forward to this movie. One of my favorite franchises in active movie-dom. Let's talk about the invite. You haven't watched the trailer. This is the four-hander about two couples who come together for some sort of interesting evening.

Speaker 2:
[62:19] Right.

Speaker 1:
[62:20] 824 picked it up out of Sundance. Seth Rogen, Olivia Wilde, Edward Norton, Penelope Cruz. Box office, I'll say 34?

Speaker 2:
[62:32] I was going to go 44. Okay. 34 is, 36 was materialists.

Speaker 1:
[62:37] Okay.

Speaker 2:
[62:37] And I think it'll...

Speaker 1:
[62:39] Kind of in that zone.

Speaker 2:
[62:40] Be in that zone. But I'm looking at the last year's 44 to 48 range were Downton Abbey, Paddington in Peru, Mickey 17 and Regretting You. Which I, you know, all in my own way, I had lovely times at the cinema for all of those. But sort of the, if you're interested, you'll, you know, you'll go to the movies. So, and I think people are interested in the invite.

Speaker 1:
[63:06] Yeah, I'm interested to see it myself. Metacritic, I'm guessing, 79.

Speaker 2:
[63:11] 76.

Speaker 1:
[63:12] Okay. Minions and Monsters, your most anticipated movie of the summer.

Speaker 2:
[63:17] Right now, before we leave, do you think I'll get to take a picture with a minion this week?

Speaker 1:
[63:22] 100% do.

Speaker 2:
[63:24] Will it only be one?

Speaker 1:
[63:24] There are thousands of universal employees waiting to help you.

Speaker 2:
[63:28] And which one? Which one?

Speaker 1:
[63:28] I don't know what their names are.

Speaker 2:
[63:29] The Goggles, the Overalls, which one's Bob?

Speaker 4:
[63:31] You mean Kevin Stewart and Bob, who apparently are not even gonna be in this movie? What are we doing?

Speaker 1:
[63:37] What, is that true?

Speaker 2:
[63:37] Wow, where are they?

Speaker 4:
[63:38] I don't know. That's what I've heard. I don't know if that's confirmed.

Speaker 1:
[63:41] I thought I saw them in the trailer. I did not in the trailer.

Speaker 4:
[63:44] I don't think so.

Speaker 2:
[63:45] They do all look somewhat alike.

Speaker 1:
[63:47] They do? That's Minions racist.

Speaker 2:
[63:50] Do Minions drink Negronis? I think the answer is yes.

Speaker 1:
[63:55] You're gonna find out shortly.

Speaker 4:
[63:58] According to r slash Letterboxd, Bob Stewart and Kevin will not be the main characters.

Speaker 2:
[64:04] Well, that's different than not being in it.

Speaker 4:
[64:07] That is true, but isn't... They're the main draw.

Speaker 1:
[64:09] I think you gotta remember about this movie is there are Minions, but they're also monsters. So what's gonna be the balance? Will there be more monsters than Minions? We don't know.

Speaker 2:
[64:18] But what if it's about the monster inside of every Minion?

Speaker 1:
[64:21] Oh, good point. It's a metaphor for trauma. The Minion's trauma. I feel so monstrous even though I'm a springy yellow pill-shaped creature. 352 million.

Speaker 2:
[64:31] 350.

Speaker 1:
[64:32] Wow. Yeah. Now that's close. That's really close. Metacritic, 61.

Speaker 2:
[64:38] 54. Again, their score, not mine.

Speaker 1:
[64:43] To me, the bloom's off the rose on the Minions franchise. I don't care. Not of note to me. Gentle Minions, that's in the past.

Speaker 2:
[64:49] This is a movie about making movies. And this is a movie about creature features. It is where you and Negronies and screwball humor.

Speaker 1:
[64:59] Why do you keep trying to make Negronies a part of this?

Speaker 2:
[65:01] Well, I really, when I was at the film for the absolutely excrucible Super Mario Brothers Galaxy, I once again was treated to this trailer. And I'm pretty sure they were drinking a Negroni.

Speaker 1:
[65:13] The Minions were drinking a Negroni?

Speaker 2:
[65:16] In a sort of like Musso and Franks type bar, like a banquette. And if you look at the cocktail and the glass choice, it looks like a Negroni. I mean, it could be an old fashioned, it's not a martini. It's not a margarita.

Speaker 1:
[65:30] I've never heard of such wish casting in my life that my Minions drink Negronies.

Speaker 2:
[65:35] I was just there engaging with cinema. You know?

Speaker 1:
[65:38] Understood.

Speaker 2:
[65:39] I meet the films where they are.

Speaker 1:
[65:41] We gotta get through the rest of these movies. Okay. So a couple big ones coming up. The first one is Young Washington, which comes to us from Angel Studios on July 3rd, trying to get that Independence Day dough. This new film stars Ben Kingsley, Andy Serkis and William Franklin Miller as George Washington. It's the story of George Washington as a young man. What'd you guess?

Speaker 2:
[66:05] I'm going 15 million because the Angel, with the exception of not the Sad and the Fury, what was that? What's the big one called? The Sound of Fury is snuffled by William Faulkner and-

Speaker 1:
[66:17] Sound of Freedom.

Speaker 2:
[66:18] The Sound of Freedom is an Angel Studios breakout movie. But otherwise you get to have Jesus in the mix for those those movies to really pop.

Speaker 1:
[66:27] Yep.

Speaker 2:
[66:28] And this is, you know, this is about Washington, George Washington. So I only did 15 million.

Speaker 1:
[66:33] I did 19 million. We're close. 44 Metacritic.

Speaker 2:
[66:36] 39. Okay.

Speaker 1:
[66:38] Let's talk about Moana.

Speaker 2:
[66:40] Okay.

Speaker 1:
[66:40] It comes out July 10th. It's a live action remake of the beloved Disney classic, Moana. I guessed 412 million dollars.

Speaker 2:
[66:48] I guess 410.

Speaker 1:
[66:49] Wow.

Speaker 2:
[66:51] There we go.

Speaker 1:
[66:52] Perhaps we're spending too much time together talking about movies. Metacritic score.

Speaker 2:
[66:56] 53.

Speaker 1:
[66:57] I have 39.

Speaker 2:
[66:59] Wow.

Speaker 1:
[67:00] I think people are very mad about this.

Speaker 2:
[67:02] Okay.

Speaker 1:
[67:02] It doesn't matter to seven-year-olds. I think they're going to be just fine.

Speaker 2:
[67:05] When you say people, once again, are the people in the room with us right now.

Speaker 1:
[67:08] Oh, I don't know. The reviews on that trailer are bad. They're very bad. The movie looks bad. We don't need it. I'm sick of the live action thing. I think it's going to do fine business. It does feel a little bit like Lilo and Stitch. I am genuinely curious to know if they change anything from the original Moana, which is like, maybe not a perfect movie, but it's pretty damn good. So it just feels too soon. It just feels like that movie just happened like 10 years ago. Why are we... Anyway. Okay, Gail Dautry and the Celebrity Sex Pass, new movie from David Wayne of Wet Hot American Summer Film and many other great comedies, The State TV Show comes out July 10th, starring Zoe Deutsch, Box Office. I said $6 million.

Speaker 2:
[67:45] $9 million.

Speaker 1:
[67:46] Okay, Metacritic, $58 million.

Speaker 2:
[67:48] $71 million. I think it looks charming.

Speaker 1:
[67:50] I saw it, it was okay.

Speaker 2:
[67:51] Okay, cool.

Speaker 1:
[67:52] The Odyssey.

Speaker 2:
[67:53] Eat shit.

Speaker 1:
[67:55] Sorry to say. I love David Wayne, I'm a big fan of his. The Odyssey, biggest movie of the summer, comes out July 17th. This is a new film from Christopher Nolan, adapting Homer. What's Homer's last name?

Speaker 2:
[68:07] He's like Madonna, he's one name only.

Speaker 1:
[68:08] I see. I guessed, what did you guess?

Speaker 2:
[68:15] I did $350 million.

Speaker 1:
[68:17] I guessed $412.

Speaker 2:
[68:19] Wow.

Speaker 1:
[68:19] Which is really high.

Speaker 2:
[68:20] I mean, that's great. So Oppenheimer was $330, and that was with most of the premium screens.

Speaker 1:
[68:29] But not all of them.

Speaker 2:
[68:30] But not all of them. You're right.

Speaker 1:
[68:32] And there's no one coming for this movie for two full weeks.

Speaker 2:
[68:36] That's true. It is also still, well, Oppenheimer was about American history and American Prometheus and the bomb.

Speaker 1:
[68:46] This is an epic action film.

Speaker 2:
[68:48] Sure. That's true. Swords and Sandals.

Speaker 1:
[68:50] In theory. And it's got way more stars.

Speaker 2:
[68:53] I like it. It would be fun if it were 412.

Speaker 1:
[68:55] Now, that would be a huge accomplishment. Because if a movie like this makes $400 million domestically, it's making, is it making $2 billion worldwide? It's possible.

Speaker 2:
[69:05] That would be wonderful.

Speaker 1:
[69:08] I'm so interested. What's your Metacritic guess?

Speaker 2:
[69:10] 83.

Speaker 1:
[69:10] I guessed 88.

Speaker 2:
[69:11] Okay. Wow.

Speaker 1:
[69:13] I feel like the tide has just fully shifted with him. Not just with me, but with many people.

Speaker 2:
[69:17] No, I think so. I mean, 83 is high.

Speaker 1:
[69:19] It is high. It is high. I'm really interested to know if this is like an Oscar contender or not, or if it's just a spectacle film. July 17th, Cut-Off. This is a new comedy starring Jonah Hill and Kristen Wiig, about two rich kids who are cut off from their parents' wealth.

Speaker 2:
[69:37] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[69:37] That I've heard good things about. Dangerous date to put this movie on, though. Obviously, The Odyssey. I guess 47 million.

Speaker 2:
[69:45] I guess 28 million.

Speaker 1:
[69:47] Seems logical.

Speaker 2:
[69:47] But I'm looking forward to it. Me too.

Speaker 1:
[69:50] Metacritic score?

Speaker 2:
[69:53] Okay.

Speaker 1:
[69:54] July 24th, my birthday movie, Evil Dead Burn. This is the one, two, three, four, five, sixth Evil Dead movie.

Speaker 2:
[70:02] Okay.

Speaker 1:
[70:03] Last one I loved, Evil Dead Rise, directed by the guy who's got the Mummy movie coming out this week, Lee Cronin. New director on this one, Sebastian Vanecek. Pretty sturdy franchise, the last few of them, I guess 67 million.

Speaker 2:
[70:14] I guessed 60 million. Okay.

Speaker 1:
[70:16] Metacritic 64.

Speaker 2:
[70:17] 63.

Speaker 1:
[70:18] Damn, we're getting too good at this. Spider-Man, brand new day.

Speaker 2:
[70:21] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[70:22] We talked about the trailer, it's coming out July 31st, your birthday film. Tom Holland's in Dea, the whole gang is back.

Speaker 2:
[70:30] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[70:31] We got Bernthal in as the Punisher, we got Michael Mando in as Scorpion.

Speaker 2:
[70:36] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[70:37] We got a whole bunch of other villains, I think Tombstones in this one.

Speaker 2:
[70:40] So do you remember how much Spider-Man No Way Home made domestically?

Speaker 1:
[70:45] I'm gonna guess it was like 630, 700?

Speaker 2:
[70:49] $814 million domestic. Wow.

Speaker 1:
[70:53] And it was like 1.9 total.

Speaker 2:
[70:55] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[70:55] Yeah. I remember the total.

Speaker 2:
[70:57] And that was December, 2021.

Speaker 1:
[70:59] Yes. But it had a superpower that this movie does not have.

Speaker 2:
[71:02] That's true.

Speaker 1:
[71:03] And it brought the movies back, right?

Speaker 2:
[71:04] Yes, totally. Well, actually Top Gun Maverick did, but that's fine.

Speaker 1:
[71:09] They did it together.

Speaker 2:
[71:10] That's really beautiful. I'm sure that that is, you know, what David Ellison would say.

Speaker 1:
[71:14] What's your guess?

Speaker 2:
[71:16] I did go big on this, but not HG. What did I put down? This seems crazy, but I wrote it down, 580.

Speaker 1:
[71:23] So I have 527.

Speaker 2:
[71:24] Okay.

Speaker 1:
[71:26] Could be under, I think I'm just accounting for The Odyssey. That The Odyssey is the movie that's like, you have to go see this in a movie theater. Spider-Man, of course, has a built-in audience and is huge. 527 would be a huge hit. No Way Home was like, that was like a quasar. That was very unusual. We'll see. We'll see what happens. Metacritic, I said 62.

Speaker 2:
[71:47] I said 51.

Speaker 1:
[71:49] And you think it's going to take some hits?

Speaker 2:
[71:51] Yeah, you know, they've already reached the pinnacle. We were all very, very generous about No Way Home, which was very charming. And now they got to keep going and no one remembers anybody, like, okay.

Speaker 1:
[72:04] Understandable. Did you see the film Fall? We're entering August, by the way, which is when things get a little dicier.

Speaker 2:
[72:09] Yeah, I did not see the film Fall. I read about it last night.

Speaker 1:
[72:13] There's a film about two women who climb a giant tower and then maybe or maybe they don't fall.

Speaker 2:
[72:17] Are you afraid of heights?

Speaker 1:
[72:18] Nope.

Speaker 2:
[72:19] Not at all.

Speaker 1:
[72:19] Nope.

Speaker 2:
[72:20] I'm afraid of heights.

Speaker 1:
[72:21] So you should check out Fall. It would really tap into your cerebral cortex.

Speaker 2:
[72:26] No, thank you.

Speaker 1:
[72:27] Fall was fine.

Speaker 2:
[72:28] Okay.

Speaker 1:
[72:29] This is called Fall 2. It's a sequel to Fall.

Speaker 2:
[72:33] They just go back up the tower?

Speaker 1:
[72:35] I think it's two new people.

Speaker 2:
[72:36] Okay. Oh, no.

Speaker 1:
[72:37] I don't know what they're going up this time.

Speaker 2:
[72:39] Okay.

Speaker 1:
[72:39] This was like an abandoned electrical tower in the middle of the desert.

Speaker 2:
[72:43] It would not do that.

Speaker 1:
[72:43] It seemed like something you would want to climb.

Speaker 2:
[72:45] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[72:46] This film, who knows what they'll climb? Maybe they'll climb Jacob Elordi. The box office, I guess 29 million.

Speaker 2:
[72:53] Oh, I guess 7 million.

Speaker 1:
[72:54] That's possible. I don't know. Metacritic 53.

Speaker 2:
[72:57] 41.

Speaker 1:
[72:59] Also on August 7th, many movies on August 7th. Ice Cream Man.

Speaker 2:
[73:03] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[73:03] This is Eli Roth's new horror movie about an ice cream man.

Speaker 2:
[73:06] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[73:06] I guess 17 million.

Speaker 2:
[73:07] I guess it's 9 million.

Speaker 1:
[73:09] Metacritic 36.

Speaker 2:
[73:10] 34.

Speaker 1:
[73:11] Damn, you're down on Eli Roth. Thanksgiving was actually a hit.

Speaker 2:
[73:15] The Metacritic was very easy. You go look at Eli Roth's director of Metacritic's where they're not fans.

Speaker 1:
[73:20] He's not beloved critically. I'm a fan of his movies. One night only.

Speaker 2:
[73:24] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[73:25] Now, I just booked a vacation, so I'm not going to be here for this episode. This might be a solo Amanda pod.

Speaker 2:
[73:32] No, I think this is also when my vacation is.

Speaker 1:
[73:34] No, yours is the next two weeks.

Speaker 2:
[73:35] Oh, interesting.

Speaker 1:
[73:37] Okay.

Speaker 2:
[73:38] Oh, great.

Speaker 1:
[73:38] This is written and directed by Will Glock.

Speaker 2:
[73:40] I know. I'm very excited.

Speaker 1:
[73:41] It's his first film since Anyone But You. And of course, he's made Easy A and a number of other quality films.

Speaker 2:
[73:47] It stars Callum Turner and Monica Bobara.

Speaker 1:
[73:49] Yes. And it's a rom-com. It's a romantic dramedy about two strangers try to fall in love on the one night a year when premarital sex is legal.

Speaker 2:
[74:01] Yeah, they filmed in Manhattan. Incredible supporting cast here, including Molly Ringwald, Avar Burton, Maya Hawke, Julia Fox, Esti Heim, Ziwei and King Princess.

Speaker 1:
[74:13] What's your guess?

Speaker 2:
[74:14] What is my guess? My guess is not at the levels of Anyone But You. So 38 million?

Speaker 1:
[74:19] I guess 76.

Speaker 2:
[74:20] You did. You think it's going to be a thing.

Speaker 1:
[74:21] I think it has a chance.

Speaker 2:
[74:22] I would love for it to be a thing.

Speaker 1:
[74:24] There's been a Colleen Hoover movie in the zone the last couple years. I think, obviously, Anyone But You was a winter release. But, you know, Cal and Turner, Monica Barbaro are not nearly as famous. But there's not really a lot of movies for women in the entire month of July. And it's going to feel like a little bit of a desert. And I think this movie could fill that in. OK, Super Troopers 3. Oh, my Metacritic is 61.

Speaker 2:
[74:53] Where is mine? 52.

Speaker 1:
[74:54] OK, Super Troopers 3.

Speaker 2:
[74:55] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[74:57] Beloved franchise. I think I had J. Chandra Shaker on the show in 2017 when Super Troopers 2 came out. Really fun conversation. He came into the studio. I guessed 48 for this.

Speaker 2:
[75:09] I guess 22.

Speaker 1:
[75:09] OK. Metacritic 52.

Speaker 2:
[75:12] 47.

Speaker 6:
[75:13] OK.

Speaker 1:
[75:14] Here's a sticky wicket.

Speaker 2:
[75:16] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[75:17] Some hope-dicting going on here for me on this one.

Speaker 2:
[75:20] Mine too. This is, I think, my last high number. Well, not totally, but yeah.

Speaker 1:
[75:26] The End of Oak Street, new David Robert Mitchell film.

Speaker 2:
[75:29] And I don't remember why it's this high. I mean, I know why, but I can't remember what my comps were.

Speaker 1:
[75:34] Comes out August 14th. Anne Hathaway and Ewan McGregor star in a Twilight Zone-esque fantastical story of a suburban community that undergoes some dramatic changes, apparently. I guessed 81 million.

Speaker 2:
[75:49] Oh, mine's way higher.

Speaker 1:
[75:51] Really?

Speaker 2:
[75:52] Yeah. I guess 131.

Speaker 1:
[75:54] Well, that would just be a homerun if this movie did 131.

Speaker 2:
[76:00] I don't remember why I think... I wish I could...

Speaker 1:
[76:03] Anne, what a summer for Anne Hathaway.

Speaker 2:
[76:05] I guess you know what it was? I remember what it was. I put this in the weapons slot because it is the same weapon slot. Same studio. And we were all like, wow, what's happening?

Speaker 1:
[76:15] Visionary auteur.

Speaker 2:
[76:17] And so, you know, by this point, people who are gonna see The Odyssey will have seen The Odyssey.

Speaker 1:
[76:24] This really feels like it is entirely dependent on pre-release hype. If they get people to see it a month early and are like, this movie, I think that actually will help it the same way it helped weapons.

Speaker 2:
[76:38] I don't know. My Metacritic is 71.

Speaker 1:
[76:41] I guess 73.

Speaker 2:
[76:42] Okay.

Speaker 1:
[76:44] Paw Patrol, The Dino Movie.

Speaker 2:
[76:46] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[76:46] This is either the second or the 900th Paw Patrol film. I don't know the answer and I don't want to know.

Speaker 2:
[76:52] Yeah. I was going to ask, so how are the dinos involved with the, do the dinos join Paw Patrol?

Speaker 1:
[76:57] This is a prequel to The End of Oak Street.

Speaker 2:
[77:02] Box office, 42 million.

Speaker 1:
[77:03] I guess 59.

Speaker 2:
[77:04] Okay.

Speaker 1:
[77:05] Maybe a little high. Metacritic, 39.

Speaker 2:
[77:07] 29.

Speaker 1:
[77:09] The Rivals of Amsia King. Yeah. This is a very interesting movie that I'm very eager to see. It premiered, I believe, at South by 2025 and is also coming out from Black Bear. It's directed by Andrew Patterson, who made a little movie during COVID called The Vast of Night.

Speaker 2:
[77:30] And you guys would not stop talking about it.

Speaker 1:
[77:32] Chris and I love that movie. This movie stars Matthew McConaughey. It seems like a very hard sell. I've had it described to me as a very odd movie, but I was such a big fan of The Vast of Night. I guess six million for The Box Office.

Speaker 2:
[77:45] I guessed 11 million.

Speaker 1:
[77:47] Sounds good.

Speaker 2:
[77:48] But we're not that far away.

Speaker 1:
[77:49] Metacritic?

Speaker 2:
[77:50] 68.

Speaker 1:
[77:51] I guess 84.

Speaker 2:
[77:52] Okay.

Speaker 1:
[77:52] It got really nice reviews. There's even some people who think it's possibly on the outskirts of the Oscar race. I don't know. I haven't seen it.

Speaker 2:
[77:59] I don't know.

Speaker 1:
[78:00] Next film, we're getting down to the end of August here, Insidious, The Bleeding World.

Speaker 2:
[78:04] We have 18 more movies.

Speaker 1:
[78:05] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[78:06] Yes. I wrote down 38 million. Okay.

Speaker 1:
[78:11] I guess I'm 54 Metacritic. Insidious movies are solid.

Speaker 2:
[78:16] Yeah, but this is a restart, right?

Speaker 1:
[78:18] Is it?

Speaker 2:
[78:18] I think Patrick Wilson is not in this film.

Speaker 1:
[78:21] I think that's right. These worlds are bleeding.

Speaker 2:
[78:24] That's a downgrade for me.

Speaker 1:
[78:26] Is The Bleeding World our world?

Speaker 2:
[78:30] I know that Patrick Wilson directed the last one, right?

Speaker 1:
[78:33] He did.

Speaker 2:
[78:34] But I confess I didn't see it.

Speaker 1:
[78:37] A trio of stalkers infiltrate a quiet suburb and force a new family into the astral plane. I hate when that happens, where they uncover a terrifying truth. The further is bleeding into the real world. I guess we'll have to look into that. The next film is Mutiny. I'd like to speak about this briefly. I watched the trailer for this film. It's the new Jason Statham movie. It looks fucking awesome. It's about Jason Statham getting stuck on a boat and having to kill everyone on the boat. It used Step Into a World by KRS-1 as its music in the trailer. There's like two Jason Statham movies a year.

Speaker 2:
[79:11] That's true.

Speaker 1:
[79:11] Most of them are not really very interesting or useful. I got a feeling about this one. I'm not saying it's going to be a huge hit.

Speaker 2:
[79:18] But you're excited. This is Beekeeper land for you?

Speaker 1:
[79:21] I don't think it will be as absurd.

Speaker 2:
[79:22] It will be different than Beekeeper.

Speaker 1:
[79:23] I don't think it will have the political trenchancy.

Speaker 2:
[79:26] But also remember the cold open of Beekeeper and the online scam. It's just absolutely gripping.

Speaker 1:
[79:33] It totally rocked. This movie is from Jean-François Richet, the French director of Plane and the Messereen movies starring Vincent Cassell. So he's a good director. I don't know. I just got a vibe. Watch it after this. It's got style. It's got a great look. Statham punching people in the throat. Something I enjoy.

Speaker 2:
[79:51] What's your prediction?

Speaker 1:
[79:52] 38 million.

Speaker 2:
[79:52] 29 million.

Speaker 1:
[79:53] Okay. Metacritic 58.

Speaker 2:
[79:55] 42.

Speaker 1:
[79:55] Okay.

Speaker 2:
[79:56] But again, they're scoring on ours.

Speaker 1:
[79:58] That's right. Spa Weekend, August 21st. This is a new film. It's a comedy.

Speaker 2:
[80:03] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[80:04] Starring Leslie Mann, Isla Fisher, Anna Faris and Michelle Butoh. There's about four gals who go for a spa weekend. You know what happens after that? I have no idea. So they get into some hijinks.

Speaker 2:
[80:14] And probably some fights also.

Speaker 1:
[80:15] Kind of girls trippy.

Speaker 2:
[80:16] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[80:18] Comes to us from John Lucas and Scott Moore. What do you think?

Speaker 2:
[80:22] Eight million.

Speaker 1:
[80:24] I guess 41 million.

Speaker 2:
[80:25] Wow.

Speaker 1:
[80:25] This is in the bad mom zone.

Speaker 2:
[80:27] Sure. But bad moms now would just go straight to streaming. I mean, this is just a very classic. Like, I can watch that at home.

Speaker 1:
[80:37] You might be right.

Speaker 2:
[80:38] I'm sorry about that. And some of that is just because of the demo that it is it is recreating.

Speaker 1:
[80:42] So you're saying that because you hate women.

Speaker 2:
[80:44] Yes. And spas. Do you like spas?

Speaker 1:
[80:48] I kind of don't have an opinion.

Speaker 2:
[80:50] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[80:50] It seems like a lot of money for something that disappears quickly.

Speaker 2:
[80:56] I don't really like them. It's not how I would choose to spend a day, even if the resources were given to me. It's just forced patience. It's kind of like meditation. I can't really go there.

Speaker 1:
[81:07] Forced patience.

Speaker 2:
[81:08] Yeah. I can't turn it off in that way.

Speaker 1:
[81:09] Is that a phrase or did you invent it?

Speaker 2:
[81:11] I invented that.

Speaker 1:
[81:12] That's interesting. We should explore that.

Speaker 2:
[81:13] I don't think we need to explore it. I think we explored on every episode of this podcast. And it's just that me not really wanted to deal with this shit. But, yeah, I don't know. I'm not good at that type of lounging.

Speaker 6:
[81:25] Okay.

Speaker 2:
[81:27] It's like lounging by the beach where I have a book to read and then I can go swim. Perfect. But where you're just supposed to sit there peacefully without any stimuli, it's not me.

Speaker 1:
[81:38] Okay. Thanks for sharing those feelings. Cliffhanger, August 28th. This film is coming-

Speaker 4:
[81:42] Wait, can we get your Metacritic score for Spa Weekend?

Speaker 1:
[81:44] Oh, sorry about that.

Speaker 2:
[81:45] 39.

Speaker 1:
[81:48] 53. So, Cliffhanger is coming to us from Row K, which has been under some-

Speaker 2:
[81:56] So is it?

Speaker 1:
[81:57] So it may not be coming out. And we could take it off the board if we think we're not going to see it. This is a remake of the Sylvester Stallone action classic starring Lily James. And when I think Sly Stallone, I think Lily James. I'm guessing 27 million.

Speaker 2:
[82:14] I'm guessing 14.

Speaker 1:
[82:15] I guess it's at least got the cliffhanger. I'm probably going over on my small movies and under on my big movies. That's something I'm learning. Metacritic score 54.

Speaker 2:
[82:25] 33.

Speaker 1:
[82:26] Okay, Coyote vs. Acme. This is the film that was sacrificed at the altar of Big Warner Brothers.

Speaker 2:
[82:32] Yeah, well, of their taxes.

Speaker 1:
[82:35] Yes, the altar of their taxes, which is an altar we all share. I am gonna say, this is a new Looney Tunes movie. There hasn't been one in some time. I'm gonna say $36 million.

Speaker 2:
[82:48] Oh, that's great. I'm saying $10 million.

Speaker 1:
[82:51] You're probably right.

Speaker 2:
[82:52] Well, this is so... Ketchup Entertainment has it now, yeah. And they have not released a lot of giant movies.

Speaker 1:
[82:59] They've never released a movie with the Looney Tunes in it.

Speaker 2:
[83:01] Oh, that's true.

Speaker 1:
[83:02] Or maybe they have. Maybe they... Was that actually that Porky Pig and Daffy Duck movie, the animated movie that came out from Ketchup? It may have been, actually.

Speaker 2:
[83:10] Ketchup Entertainment. I looked at this last night. I'm pulling it up right now.

Speaker 1:
[83:16] Did they get both of them?

Speaker 2:
[83:17] The Day the Earth Blew Up.

Speaker 1:
[83:18] Yes.

Speaker 2:
[83:19] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[83:19] Okay, they did get that.

Speaker 2:
[83:20] That was them.

Speaker 1:
[83:21] And they have this movie too, right?

Speaker 2:
[83:22] And it grossed a 9 million, 8.9 million in the United States.

Speaker 1:
[83:26] Okay. Interesting. Well, we'll see what happens there. A couple more movies to go.

Speaker 2:
[83:30] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[83:31] Wait, did we get your Metacritic score for that?

Speaker 1:
[83:33] 78.

Speaker 2:
[83:34] 72.

Speaker 1:
[83:36] Ridley Scott's The Dog Stars.

Speaker 2:
[83:38] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[83:40] This is, is it Callum Turner? Action movie?

Speaker 2:
[83:42] It's Jacob Elordi. How dare you?

Speaker 1:
[83:45] Sheesh. Who's the female lead? I feel ill-prepared.

Speaker 4:
[83:49] Margaret Qualley.

Speaker 1:
[83:51] Interesting. And Josh Brolin, Guy Pearson, Benedict Wong. This comes to us from Mark L. Smith, who wrote The Revenant. And shot by Eric Messerschmitt, David Fincher's cinematographer. It's a movie that is set in the aftermath of a catastrophic flu virus, post-apocalyptic thriller. What do you got?

Speaker 2:
[84:13] I'm probably going too high here, but it is a Ridley Scott movie. I'll be at one that was delayed. 85 million?

Speaker 1:
[84:22] I went 61.

Speaker 2:
[84:23] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[84:24] I think I'm just being cautious for some reason.

Speaker 2:
[84:25] No, I think that's smart. I think Napoleon was around 60 million, but that was still sort of COVID-y. And you wonder if the The Lordy and the Ridley Scott of it all will pick up some juice, late August juice.

Speaker 1:
[84:40] It would really help this show for this film to be good.

Speaker 2:
[84:44] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[84:44] Because it would do a lot towards two young stars. Obviously Ridley, somebody we really enjoy, despite, you know, not always hitting it.

Speaker 2:
[84:52] That's true. It would be...

Speaker 1:
[84:54] We got to do an episode before we go to fall film festivals. You know, don't want it to be just cavernous out here. Okay. I'm guessing a 70 on Metacritic.

Speaker 2:
[85:07] I'm guessing 53. Well, it's late Ridley, you know?

Speaker 1:
[85:11] It's late Ridley.

Speaker 2:
[85:11] I love him, but he fast-forwards through things.

Speaker 1:
[85:14] Very true. August 28th, we also have Finding Emily.

Speaker 2:
[85:18] We do.

Speaker 1:
[85:20] Finding Emily is basically like a teen dramedy. When a lovesick musician is given the wrong number to his dream girl, he teams up with a driven psychology student to find her together. They spark a hilarious campus-wide frenzy. And Gori Rice and Spike Fern, Lassine and Ella McKay. I guessed...

Speaker 2:
[85:35] Oh, right.

Speaker 1:
[85:36] Nine million.

Speaker 2:
[85:37] I guessed four million. Okay.

Speaker 1:
[85:39] Is that a correct score?

Speaker 2:
[85:40] 61.

Speaker 1:
[85:41] 72.

Speaker 2:
[85:42] Okay.

Speaker 1:
[85:43] And then Idiots is coming on August 28th, formerly titled The Shitheads. Debuted Sundance, new film from Macon Blair. Heard this is really fun.

Speaker 2:
[85:51] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[85:53] Dave Franco stars in it alongside... Oh, Shay Jackson.

Speaker 4:
[85:57] Yes. Really, really good trailer.

Speaker 1:
[86:00] I guessed eight million.

Speaker 2:
[86:01] I guessed seven million.

Speaker 1:
[86:03] 69 Metacritic score just for the jokes.

Speaker 2:
[86:06] 53 because the jokes only get you so far.

Speaker 1:
[86:12] Who do you think won this? That's every movie coming out this summer.

Speaker 4:
[86:16] Can I add one quick I put at the bottom of the doc? Honorary Cliff Boothguest rumored August. It's very difficult.

Speaker 2:
[86:23] No, it's not. Do you know where that is being released? First of all, Netflix. So even though it will get a limited release, would it be?

Speaker 1:
[86:31] They probably won't track The Box Office.

Speaker 2:
[86:33] Yeah. Number two, Venice Film Festival, baby.

Speaker 1:
[86:37] Is that confirmed?

Speaker 2:
[86:38] No, but it's confirmed in my soon to be booked plane ticket.

Speaker 1:
[86:42] We could guess what we think that movie would have made if a different studio released it.

Speaker 2:
[86:46] Okay, well.

Speaker 1:
[86:47] And there will be no way to check against it, but just as a thought exercise.

Speaker 2:
[86:50] Once upon a time in Hollywood, domestic box office.

Speaker 1:
[86:53] What was it, like 350?

Speaker 2:
[86:55] Let's see. Domestic was 142.

Speaker 1:
[86:58] Oh, am I thinking worldwide?

Speaker 2:
[86:59] What was it worldwide? Yes, and worldwide was 377.

Speaker 1:
[87:01] 377, okay. I would guess that it would have made 107 domestic.

Speaker 2:
[87:15] If Warner Bros. were releasing it.

Speaker 1:
[87:18] Or Sony, which released once upon a time in Hollywood.

Speaker 2:
[87:20] Yeah, yeah, yeah. 95.

Speaker 1:
[87:24] Okay. And we'll never know the answer. Metacritic score?

Speaker 2:
[87:33] 73.

Speaker 1:
[87:34] Yeah, I was going to say 78.

Speaker 2:
[87:36] Yeah. But only because people are too sour about David Fincher.

Speaker 1:
[87:41] So I saw The Man on Saturday night.

Speaker 2:
[87:43] Mr. Fincher?

Speaker 1:
[87:44] Yeah. I went to a screening of Zodiac at the Academy Museum. And there was an interview before the film played with Fincher conducted by Bong Joon-ho. Because the movie was screened as part of a series of inspirations for Bong. And he talked to Fincher for 30 minutes or so, 35 minutes. And it was fascinating. Bong, director Bong, just fanned out the whole time.

Speaker 2:
[88:10] Love it.

Speaker 1:
[88:10] Real Chris Farley show vibes in a very charming way. And Fincher was incredibly withholding.

Speaker 2:
[88:18] That's my guy.

Speaker 1:
[88:21] And you know, he had some answers. They went into great depth about the making of Zodiac. And there were many times, I mean, at least three questions. I think he gave a total of like 12 word answers. With a real shit eating grin on his face. I found it very charming and funny. I do think some people are probably a little bit frustrated by his unwillingness. Mostly because I think Bong was experiencing something I felt many times while interviewing directors, which is you want to ask about an idea in the movie. Say, I feel like thematically this indicates this. For example, in Zodiac, there's this passage of time in the final third of the movie where the San Francisco Chronicle Offices, they shift a kind of color tone from yellow in the late 60s, early 70s to blue in the late 70s. In particular, there are three huge columns, pillars in the middle of the office that are painted yellow in the first half and then the back half are blue. Bong located this fact and asked him directly about it and said, is this supposed to indicate something about our feelings about the characters, the murder, the movie? A precise question, what he was looking for in that answer. And Fincher was just like, yeah, that was the idea of Don Burt, who's a genius, a production designer. And yeah, we just thought, that's what it would look like. Just like a real life, just not giving you anything on the metaphorical insinuations of a creative decision. And I felt seen.

Speaker 2:
[89:50] That's really beautiful.

Speaker 1:
[89:51] Yeah, it was great. Fincher seems like he's doing well.

Speaker 2:
[89:54] Thought a lot about him this weekend when I was in the Bay Area.

Speaker 1:
[89:58] Berkeley, of course, his old stomping ground.

Speaker 2:
[90:00] Yeah. I guess he's who I think of most when I'm up there.

Speaker 1:
[90:07] He seemed to be having a very fun time not giving anybody anything.

Speaker 2:
[90:11] I know, that is what he does. Very admirable. And that's what I love about him.

Speaker 1:
[90:14] Something unfortunately I'm not able to do in my walk of life. Well, this was fun. You think you won?

Speaker 2:
[90:21] I have no idea. I guess you kind of kept to a median and I kept to big and little.

Speaker 1:
[90:29] The only one that I think is quite large is Billie Eilish that you guessed. Everything else feels totally in play. If I'm wrong about Billie Eilish, that'll be great. I currently don't even have it on the discussion plan for the show, but maybe we should.

Speaker 2:
[90:41] I mean, I guess I'll go see it, learn about Billie Eilish. There's one song I like.

Speaker 1:
[90:45] Bad Guy?

Speaker 2:
[90:46] No, I like Lunch. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[90:48] Don't know that one. I have nothing against Billie Eilish.

Speaker 2:
[90:52] She and I have the same J. Crew shirt that we wear from time to time. She looks great in it.

Speaker 1:
[90:56] Sounds like we should wrap this episode up.

Speaker 2:
[91:02] Are you ready for the amount of clothes you have to talk about in Devil Wears Prada 2?

Speaker 1:
[91:07] I'm ready to listen to you say things.

Speaker 2:
[91:09] Okay, good. Thank you. That's all I asked.

Speaker 1:
[91:11] That's what I do. I listen to women and men.

Speaker 2:
[91:13] Sure, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[91:14] Let's listen to this conversation with Daniel Goldhaber right now. Almost three years later, Daniel Goldhaber, back on the show. Okay, Danny, so when I was a teenager, went to a sleepover, and they had Faces of Death on VHS, and we watched it, and we believed it to be true. We believed it to be the most vile and yet accessible in video stores, product imaginable. I assume you had a similar experience, but maybe you did not?

Speaker 6:
[91:44] I did not.

Speaker 1:
[91:45] Okay.

Speaker 6:
[91:46] I was talking to a friend earlier today, and they were talking about how, like, there are a few things that are kind of like the JFK assassination, where everybody, like, knows where they were when, and, like, Faces of Death is kind of one of those things, which I think is kind of funny. Like, everyone has, like, such a tactile and, you know, like, evocative way of describing their first time. But for me, my first, like, real encounter with Faces of Death was getting an email from my agent in 2019 saying, Legendary has acquired the rights to do Faces of Death. And there was an executor named John Selk, who I really liked, and he was interested in talking to me and Issa about it. And so, like, we went and watched Faces of Death.

Speaker 1:
[92:27] Was this because they had seen Cam, and they just thought this is the kind of person who would get what this material is?

Speaker 6:
[92:32] Yeah, well, John had, you know, I think identified as kind of a, like, you know, what do you do with Faces of Death? I think John had identified the exact thing that, like, Faces of Death is everywhere now. And that was, you know, Eason and I's experience generationally is that after we saw the movie, we realized that we had seen Faces of Death, just like clips of it on rotten.com or ebombsworld or whatever. Like, it, we remembered it, but it was totally decontextualized from this original movie. And so for us and, like, for John, that was like an immediate, like, point of connection of being, like, okay, like, there's something here at this thing that, like, used to be this, like, cursed object that was really hard to get out of hold of, all of a sudden is accessible by basically anyone in the world 24 hours a day. That feels like a pretty profound shift in our relationship to violence in media, our relationship to media in general. And so that was very much a starting point for talking about the movie. And then, you know, I worked for a summer as a content moderator, for very somewhat informally, but for some friends who had a startup. And I had always thought that that would make for, like, just a great character or somebody who kind of, like, you know, they're seeing stuff you're not supposed to see. And so I thought that that would make for, like, a really good, you know, way into this subject matter. And then once we kind of combined the two of those, we were off to the races.

Speaker 1:
[93:58] Can you tell me a little bit about that time as a content moderator? And so, like, what did you see? And maybe even explicitly what it was that you had to do.

Speaker 6:
[94:08] So basically, in this particular case, this was in the early 2010s. I had some friends who had a social media start-up that was, like, just getting off the ground. And at the time, I don't know how true this is today. You know, there was a thing where it's like, okay, a new social media app goes up on the app store. People who, like, you know, the kind of dregs of the internet know there's no robust moderation department here. There's no, you know, pipeline to law enforcement that's been set up. And so they just start, you know, using it to, like, share child porn and, you know, snuff tape. And I think that, you know, this was something that the people that ran the company, I think were a little like, oh, we're entirely anticipating that. And so basically, they just, like, hired friends of theirs, just camp on the feed, watch everything that was coming in, and then just, like, try to take down especially, like, the child porn as quickly as possible. And again, it was a small app. And so it was, like, not, it was a very different kind of, like, moderation than what we see in the movie. And then this kind of, like, you know, very corporatized moderation that you have now that often is even just, like, a smokescreen for companies to kind of, you know, enact censorship of speech that they want or to otherwise kind of try to protect their liability when it comes to what's on their platform. But, you know, I, and, you know, the first few times you're doing this, some of the stuff you see you're, like, really deeply affected by. And then at a certain point, you just, you stop feeling the effect of it, even if that doesn't mean that you're not still on some level being affected by it, you at the very least kind of just adjust. And yeah, so I only did that for, like, a summer. It was a virtual job. It was nothing. You know, I was, I was, I needed money.

Speaker 1:
[95:53] One of the ideas that I really like in your movie is this very thin line between what we are allowed to let titillate us and what we are not allowed to let titillate us. And this idea of a person whose job it is to kind of enforce, you know, I guess that kind of, that ethical gray line. And also that a movie like Faces of Death is, is your movie is doing the same thing, which is it is a discrete slasher with, like, insincere hardcore violence, which we know is like something we're allowed to enjoy in these defined buckets. I'm curious, like, how you thought about blending what the original project was doing with where we are now and what we're allowed to be excited about in a movie in 2026.

Speaker 6:
[96:39] Yeah, I mean, I think for me, it's like, that's also like the whole thing. Maybe, like, one of the best ways I can talk about that is, like, for us, the kind of cornerstone movie that we were looking at is Peter Bogdanovich's Targets, which I think is, like, one of the greatest movies of the 1960s. But it was, like, very similarly, you know, Corman had this, like, Boris Karloff movie that didn't totally work and he had a few extra days on Boris Karloff's schedule and going to Bogdanovich and was like, you know, if you do the Corman formula, I'll let you do whatever you want. And then Bogdanovich turned that into this, like, unbelievable meditation on, you know, alienation and media and the suburbs and violence. And when I watched Targets' kind of research for this, I kind of realized, like, you know, it was part of what really strengthened this kind of, like, dual perspective narrative we have, but also it was, like, one of these things of, it's kind of a weird assignment. Like, I have this kind of these elements for a movie and, I don't know, do something with it. And it's not dissimilar from how it felt, kind of, having a company be like, we've required the remake rights to Faces of Death because we understand that there is, like, value in this IP. But, like, this is not a movie that needs to or should necessarily exist. And it's, I think that, like, that's something that the movie is ultimately reflecting on, like, at its core. It's like, why remake Faces of Death? Like, you know, and because the movie is about somebody remaking Faces of Death and trying to squeeze value out of this IP for his own personal gain. And I think that, you know, ultimately, I think for my perspective, the movie, more than anything, is about the kind of just, like, idea of what has happened now that our media has become centralized in these giant corporations. You know, there are very, very few corporations that essentially control the vast majority of human speech. You know, not even just public speech, but even the way that we communicate with each other. And it's ultimately these companies that are the ones setting the parameters for what we are and are not allowed to say, what we are and are not allowed to see. You know, just how easy it is for them to adjust an algorithm and bury a movie because they might find some of the ideas in it unpalatable, which is something that we definitely dealt with with Pipeline, you know? And so I think that that's the thing is like, you know, the movie very much starts with this perspective of like kind of getting the audience to think about the fact that like the people that are adjudicating what is and is not going on to our phones are ultimately employees at a company that has its own goals and ambitions. And that I think that relationship applies to all of the media that we see.

Speaker 1:
[99:29] I'm curious how you and Isso work together. So this is the third film in a row that you've written together, right?

Speaker 6:
[99:34] No, Isso wrote CAM solo.

Speaker 1:
[99:36] So she was not on Pipeline.

Speaker 6:
[99:38] She was a producer on Pipeline. So she came, she, you know, she was a creative producer on the movie along with myself and Ariella, two other producers too who made the film. But the three of us kind of developed the material. And then this one we co-wrote.

Speaker 1:
[99:50] So, you know, I know that a lot of her personal experience went into Cam, but how do you guys right now, like I always ask duo writing teams, like are you like back to back, typewriter to typewriter? Like how are you kicking ideas around in this world? Because you do have this raw material of the original film which you've managed to work into this project, but then you're also creating a whole world of characters that were not previously there before.

Speaker 6:
[100:13] Yeah, I mean, it's always, it's just a lot of conversation. Ultimately, like when we get into the writing process, like it generally is passing drafts back and forth, you know? She'll do a first draft, I'll do a big revision, and then eventually it gets to the point where like you're just doing line edits, and then you're just kind of, you know, that's when you're in the room together, usually, you know, like on set or the night after a shoot. And then I think, you know, obviously he says, you know, co-filmmaker on the movies and that writing process extends all the way through production, through posts, through the marketing, you know, in terms of not just coming up with lines on set, but you know, other ideas, you know, costumes and performance. And, you know, I think you only benefit from that. And in the case of this, because we're kind of conceptualizing what the movie is from the ground up together, you know, it's great to have somebody who is able to kind of really have their eye on the prize of what movie are we trying to make. Well, I can, you know, have the benefit of going, getting lost in the weeds of, you know, just the logistics and minutia of pulling it all off and always have somebody I can turn to, to kind of be like, hey, are we on track? You know.

Speaker 1:
[101:29] When you finally got a chance to watch the original, what were your, like, what did you make of it? Especially being at the age you're at now and what you'd heard about it and how you'd consume pieces of it over the years.

Speaker 6:
[101:42] I can't say I thought it was a good movie, but it's an interesting movie. And I think that what I find so interesting about the film is also like, there's a lot of Mondo horror. There's a lot of fake snuff film. There's a lot of gross out movie. This came in a moment where there was plenty of kind of cursed horror stuff to choose from. Why this one? I think that's one of the most interesting questions around Faces. I think it has a lot to do with the fact that it doesn't feel like a movie anybody would make on purpose. It feels like it just appeared on VHS. And I think that that's one of the questions that our movie is asking too is like, you know, when I was doing my content moderation job, the most disturbing thing that I honestly felt about the footage was this question of like, who's posting this stuff? Like, yeah, the content's bad, but I'm way more frightened about the person on the other end of this. And I think that that is very similar with the original Faces of Death in the sense that you feel like a truly deranged and like, diseased mind did this. Because it's like, these are like horrifying images, and it's like jaunty music, you know? And like even just like some of the like, like the monkey is so macabre, and like it's goofy, but that only weirdly makes it more disturbing because it's presented so straightforwardly. And I interviewed the director of the movie before doing this. You know, I had a long conversation with him. And, you know, as he told it to me, because there's a director that's credited, it was not the real director. He was like the writer and the collaborator who essentially like took the public credit for the film. But the actual guy that made it made nature documentaries for ABC. And he had a big documentary production company, and he was approached by a group of investors who were like, we want to make Mondo Death. And he was like, that sounds like a weird art project. And he didn't want to be credited because he didn't want to disrupt his actual day job. But he approached it as something where he's like, I can't really lose here. I'm just going to have fun with this. And so he was like, yeah, what if I put John T. Music in? That's fucked up and weird. But the combination of all those elements really does leave it feeling like it's something that no human hand would ever make.

Speaker 1:
[104:16] It's so interesting, though, because that perfectly echoes probably some of the content that you experienced in moderation where people are submitting material anonymously and then also what the killer in the film is doing, which is operating in a kind of shadow. And it's so different from the act of public creation, especially historically promoting a movie through a corporate studio system where you kind of have to put your name on it. And that friction between those two ideas is really, really fun.

Speaker 6:
[104:44] Exactly, no. And I mean, it's one of the interesting things about Arthur as a character to me is that he's chasing something, but he's not chasing any version of fame that we really understand because his name isn't on it, his face isn't on it. And yet it's so clear that what he cares about is kind of like what he's getting out of it. And I think, for me, one of the fundamental ideas of the film is that we live in an attention economy and in that, we've said the more attention that you have, the more value you have. And simultaneously, we've gone and said, do you know how to generate a lot of attention very quickly? Go commit an act of mass violence. And so we've set the incentive structure up for young people that like, very literally, it's like, if you commit an act of mass violence, you have a lot of value as a person, or at the very least, you're named as your reputation, as your go down in history. And you see the way that people talk about this stuff on message boards, where they talk about like, high scores for kill counts. And then those conversations also generate attention. And so for me, Arthur is in many ways, just a literalization of that. He's somebody who is actually very rationally looking at the system that has been set out in front of him and say, how can I feel like I matter? How can I feel like I exist? How can I feel seen? And you see where he lives and you kind of get a sense for how kind of totally isolated and alienated this guy is. And on some level, it's like, you're like, yes, what he's doing kind of, it makes sense. It's awful, but there's a logic to it. And that I think is a logic that is again, something that has been systemically given to us by media companies.

Speaker 1:
[106:36] Yeah, it's fascinating, because I know you finished this film some time ago, but our hero Balthazar and the drama and your film coming out effectively within a week of each other is also fascinating, because they're all kind of, they're not about the same thing, but they're located in the same vibe of how can people say, how can people be seen through something cruel and dangerous and violent? Tell me about making a slasher movie, because one of the things I loved about Pipeline is, is it just used like a pure heist model mentality to demonstrate something socially, politically different. But in the execution of it, it seemed like you had some real standards that you were trying to follow. How did you think about this because there are thousands and thousands of slashers?

Speaker 6:
[107:23] Yeah, I think it's interesting because in all honesty, I never really thought of it as a slasher movie. I thought it's because it's not really, right? You don't, the slasher movie doesn't introduce you to the slasher on minute 15 and you're not spending, you know, about half the movie with him. Like genuinely, the model was whatever targets is, you know, like it's a thriller, it's, you know, and like there's a silence of the lambsy kind of, you know, cat and mouseness to it. Like that, that was always the conception. Then it's just a movie that then has a handful of slasher set pieces in them, right? And those were very consciously supposed to kind of be riffs on old classics. Cause I think that there's this fun thing about Arthur, which is like, he's very clearly an extremely media literate person, like, and so people are like, oh, I love the stocking on his head. It reminds me of, you know, Tom Noonan in Manhunter. It's like, yes, it also reminds Arthur of Tom Noonan in Manhunter. You know, like, he's aware of the kind of homage and illusion that he himself is engaging in.

Speaker 1:
[108:36] Seems like he's only an agglomeration of his influences, really.

Speaker 6:
[108:39] Exactly. Exactly. And so I think that-

Speaker 1:
[108:43] Which is how a lot of people communicate their personality on social media as well, which is another thing I like about the movie.

Speaker 6:
[108:49] And so, but you get this, there's this moment I really love where, you know, I should get fine grained about the movie here. I guess it's out at this point. Where Margot is hiding in the garage from Arthur, and Arthur walks in, there's this, like, really amazingly just tense moment where, you know, she's hiding. Does he see or does he not? And it's kind of unclear if he sees her or not. And then he walks out, and then she runs out, and then she's like about to jump the fence, and all of a sudden, he's back in the garage, door goes up and he shoots at her. And it's just really great question of like, does he know? Is he actually chasing for himself a greater slasher? Does he want to jump scare her?

Speaker 1:
[109:36] To just shoot her in that moment would have been boring if he had spotted her, yes.

Speaker 6:
[109:39] Exactly. And he's not in it to win necessarily like that. He's in it for the narrative. And so I think that like, there's something about the way that I wanted it to be a slasher movie that also is like, is performative in itself in a certain way. You know, and without, I never really wanted the movie to be self-aware and meta, but I wanted Arthur to be someone who is so completely seeing his existence through this performative lens that even he is kind of seeing the movie that he is experiencing and living was kind of part of the goal.

Speaker 1:
[110:23] Is it Dockray Montgomery?

Speaker 6:
[110:24] Dacre.

Speaker 1:
[110:24] Dacre, so just an amazing performance. And it's hard to do this because of what you're saying, which is there are a lot of sort of reference points, but I do feel like he makes something that feels also like a singular person in its own disturbing way. Had you guys talk about the character? Well, you know, how did his performance shake out the way that it did?

Speaker 6:
[110:43] Yeah, I mean, I, Dacre's an incredible actor and just like, I think in general, an incredible collaborator, both he and Barbie are. And with Dacre, when I first met with him for the film, I'd met with him for Pipeline, which hadn't ended up really being a fit, but I really liked him. And we met for this and, you know, he got on the Zoom and he was like, I have to play this role. I've never felt more passionate about a role. And he's like, I grew up, I have severe OCD. I was also like a super alienated, bullied kid. He's like, but I had this problem where I cannot, I could not sleep for 10 years under the covers of my bed. Because if I felt even a crease in the bed sheet, it would keep me up all night. So I slept on top of the covers for 10 years. And he goes, I really relate to Arthur. I feel like, you know, I see this guy's aversion with blood. I see his like compulsion to do things that even hurt himself. And he's like, I really feel that. And everyone else I'd met with had kind of been talking about like this other guy they'd seen in the media. But Dacre was like, this is how I'm Arthur. And I think for me as a starting point of a collaboration, like that's a great place to start because as you're then building the character from the inside out, everything is coming from something that's like profoundly honest to the actor. And so for Dacre, he has a real obsession with textures and fabrics. I think because that was the starting point of his connection to Arthur, that became the starting point for the entire thing. So a lot of what was originally scripted changed dramatically, especially just in the details of how this was rendered based on what felt the best to Dacre. We would go in for fittings for his character, and for him it was all about kind of like, literally the skin-tight suit and the way that felt on his body. And it was more important to him that the fabric of the clothing felt better than maybe even the look or the fit. And that's the thing, it is like, okay, then I'm trying to back that into an aesthetic that works for the film, but I also know, I can see it in the fitting. He's rubbing, the way he rubs himself, he's doing that, because he's finding that part of the character in the fitting. So the stocking over his head, that wasn't in the script. That was something that he wanted to do. That's something that Dacre felt spoke to him about the way that Arthur would want to access that kind of performance. And then for me, I'm like, oh, that's also like Manhunter, and then we're bringing that in. And so it's a lot of just kind of a back and forth with, I think, hearing how he's personally engaging with this and then finding a way to just make that work for the movie. But I think maybe one of the other funny things that I can share is, I was about six months into the edit of the film, and we were going back through some take or something. I heard me give a direction to Dacre and then I heard Dacre do the take. And I called Dacre, I said, Dacre, are you doing my voice? When are there's directing? He goes, did you just figure that out?

Speaker 1:
[114:04] It's pretty good.

Speaker 6:
[114:05] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[114:07] Okay, have a theory that all of your films are about young people trying to utilize the media to seize control.

Speaker 6:
[114:16] I think they're about young people who feel driven nuts by the world that they live in and are trying to do something to change it, to break free of it, and they're ultimately trapped by the fact that ultimately, even if they have essentially what becomes a personally redemptive act of violence. I always felt the ending of Pipeline was a little misread because you see comments of people like, and all they do is post a TikTok. It's like, yeah. Because ultimately, if you've done the thing, how do you communicate it? Oh, you're right back. You're right back where you started. And there's something.

Speaker 1:
[114:58] Oh, interesting. So, but that's a slightly more cynical.

Speaker 6:
[115:01] I think it's just realistic. I think that this is the problem, is that we're at the point where there is so little free media and communication. You know, we don't have alt-weeklies. We don't really have zines. We don't have underground newspapers. We don't, you know, we don't congregate in public, especially in the US, nearly as much as we used to, you know. And I think that that, like, you're seeing the effects of that, which is that even when revolutionary acts take place, telling the story of them and finding a way to tell that story in a way that actually brings people together around a movement, around a progressive idea, is harder than ever before. Because with a push of a button, you can completely disrupt how that storytelling is actually disseminated to people. And this is, I think, the most clearly communicated at the end of Faces, right? It's that in order to prove that there's a sadistic serial killer who's murdering people on the loose and making snuff films and posting them online, she's got to make a snuff film.

Speaker 1:
[116:07] Got to post about it, yeah.

Speaker 6:
[116:08] And then she's got to post about it. And because everybody in the movie has kind of told her that's the only thing that will take is truth, is once we see it on the Internet.

Speaker 1:
[116:17] Do you feel as helpless and as stuck going back to where you started as the characters in the movies?

Speaker 6:
[116:25] I feel totally trapped by social media. I grew up on the Internet. I grew up as a very alienated person. But also, I think I've built a life in which I'm very reliant on, you know, I live between, you know, Berlin, New York, LA. I work in film and media. You know, it ends up being a very effective way to keep in touch with a very large group of people that I work with and that I care about. And it's also an important vehicle for me to broadcast about my work. But it's also like it consumes my life and I can feel it like sapping and stealing the minutes from me. And I don't know how to escape it because I don't really know, it's like I work in film, right? Like how do I, like there are people that aren't online, you know, but then even some of the people you think aren't on Instagram, like they have Finsta, you know.

Speaker 1:
[117:20] Oh yeah.

Speaker 6:
[117:21] Or they're paying attention.

Speaker 1:
[117:23] I have learned at the highest levels that this is true.

Speaker 6:
[117:25] Yes, yes. Because like this, you mean to tell me that like, you know, some big actor doesn't want to know like what the, what the skinny is on them? Like no.

Speaker 1:
[117:34] They definitely do.

Speaker 6:
[117:34] And so it's like, yeah, I'm like, how do I, how do I belong to a culture that is so online? And then at the same time, like there's so many parts of the online culture I don't understand, like something like Iron Lung kind of like.

Speaker 1:
[117:48] I thought that was so exciting.

Speaker 6:
[117:49] It's so exciting. It's also like, it's like, it indites like absolutely every element of like how Hollywood thinks it should be working.

Speaker 1:
[117:56] That was where exactly where I wanted to take this conversation to, because you know, you're working as an independent filmmaker, you're making movies now that are pretty actively kind of poking the bear and trying to say like, how close to the edge of like radical leftist point of view can I get into a mainstream experience, into an AMC movie theater?

Speaker 6:
[118:14] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[118:15] Which is a really, I really admire that as a mission creatively. But I also think that there's like kind of an inherent anxiety around that too, or like how far can you push it and how big can you get and how successful can you be? And what do you ultimately want for yourself out of all of those things?

Speaker 6:
[118:37] I think, I, you know, it's interesting with Faces finally coming out. And I think just like the movie finally seeing the light of day, getting a pretty, I think, the reception that I think it should get, which like some people like really love it and champion it. So a lot of people like this movie shouldn't exist. And I'm like, yes, I agree with you that it's probably true. Think about that, like, you know. But it's, I think that like, I'm very happy to be trying to continue to just prove out that this work can be entertaining and theatrical and fun. And like ultimately, even though there's like, I think some radical ideas in the work, like that's very rarely what we're thinking about on the day. Like I'm thinking about like, how do I make a fun movie? How do I stage the scene in a nice way? And how do I just like keep the audiences' engagement? And that's ultimately like, I think, for me, it's just very hard to want to make a piece of entertainment for the sake of making a piece of entertainment.

Speaker 5:
[119:48] I only get excited when I feel like I'm doing, hopefully, something new in terms of cinematic form, something new in terms of narrative form, and something new in terms of thematic form. And generally speaking, the new thematic stuff that I'm interested in is leftist. And so, like, there are obviously ideas I care about, but I think, yeah, it's, in all honesty, I had, I think, hoped that, it's not like that I hoped that Pipeline would get people to go blow up Pipelines, but I had hoped that it would maybe have served as a little bit more, we got like so much press, and like, you know, national security bulletins, and I'd hoped it would like, at the very least, maybe engender like a bigger conversation about, you know, just tactics, and what's working and what's not working, and, you know, how we should think about organizing differently, potentially. And what I saw was like, a lot of people watch the movie, and we're like, I watched the movie, and that's my catharsis, and like, and that's fine. Like, I have to meet the audience where they're at, you know, and I'm like, okay, that's interesting. Like, I don't think movies, I think there was a time that movies were gonna like get people to go out and do stuff. I don't think that's how movies operate anymore.

Speaker 1:
[121:07] Yeah, well, that's that idea is in your mood. I mean, there's the refraction element of like, I said something out loud, and so I have done my duty, you know, I've done my Starship Troopers moment, you know, and it's like, did you though? You know, like, you consumed something, and then you went home.

Speaker 5:
[121:21] And so I think for me, I'm also trying to get, I'm more interested, I think, and this is something that we started with Faces that I will be digging into more and more. I think I'm actually becoming a little more interested in, like, instead of trying to like spur people to action or spur people to change, it's more about like getting them to understand more, using film as like a way to be like, this is how the world is working. And if you can kind of like peek under the hood and look at the little watch gears running, you're like, oh, that's what this is doing to me. Just an idea. And like, again, this is like a little bit a design idea in Faces of Death that like, you know, when you're texting somebody, when you're doing email, that's a video game. That's a video game. It has little notifications. It has things you have to check off. It's like, I had this revelation during the pandemic when I was just like in my computer, I was playing Zelda Breath of the Wild and a new email notification popped up on my computer. And I was like, wait, I also have a task to do over here and I have a task to do over here. I actually am having the exact same feeling.

Speaker 1:
[122:27] Yeah, the endorphin rush.

Speaker 5:
[122:28] Exactly, from both of these things.

Speaker 1:
[122:30] Ooh, something new.

Speaker 5:
[122:31] New quest and new email, same thing. And I'm like, oh my God, everything is a video game right now, right? But no one's thinking about it that way. No one's seeing it that way. No one's experiencing that reality. Or like, because there's no good video game criticism, all sorts of stuff like that. So it's like, for me, I'm like, okay, how can I get an audience to start thinking or feeling or perceiving these kind of ways that systems are being built around us in ways that, at the very least, will allow them to reflect on their experience differently? Even just thinking about the fact that an attention economy does really kind of engender somebody wanting to commit mass murder is like, that's the argument of the movie. And I think if somebody walks away from the film and being like, oh, that's interesting. I think that there's a tremendous amount that could be extrapolated from that that would hopefully be productive for that individual.

Speaker 1:
[123:28] Yeah, I think there's also something interesting about that, which I don't think is quite true for Pipeline, which is that I think a lot of people will also see the movie and be like, cool serial killer movie, and then stop thinking about it.

Speaker 5:
[123:39] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[123:40] Which is, that's an unusual opportunity that I think filmmakers have that very few other artists have, where I have all of these thematic load bearing ideas that I bring to my project, but I have to accept and probably even know clearly at the head of time that it is also a product and that people will receive it in different ways too. Your intent can't be confirmed.

Speaker 5:
[124:02] I think that at the same time, one of the beautiful things about being a filmmaker is, I think that sometimes movies operate on people five years after the fact. There's a movie that, for no good reason, you can't shake, but it lauders itself in your brain like a thorn. And I think that, and that's obviously true of Faces of Death for a lot of people. For no good reason, that movie is this thing, but it is, and who kind of knows why? And who kind of knows what that means? And I think that we also know that our images will now more than ever become decontextualized from our movies. Like the ways in which you see the White House posting fan cams of war films is like, that's a real total shift in terms of like just, one way I put it is, up until 10 years ago, we never as humans used images to communicate directly one on one with each other. People would make images and then show them, and then that would be something that was experienced. But now, if I want to communicate an idea to you, I can send you a gif. I can send you a gif of a movie. So now, all of a sudden, the legacy of cinematic imagery has become language.

Speaker 1:
[125:23] There's also something else that is a consequence of that, which is the extraction of language from communication, which is a whole other kettle fish.

Speaker 5:
[125:33] But I think that that's the point, is that it's like, okay, so that's language now, and that also is a complete change in terms of, I'm definitely aware now when I'm making a movie. I'm like, this image, this shot, I hope that could be a good meme.

Speaker 1:
[125:49] Do you think that?

Speaker 5:
[125:49] Yeah, yeah, of course.

Speaker 1:
[125:51] Do you think a lot of filmmakers think that way now?

Speaker 5:
[125:53] Yeah, I think anyone who's online, and I think that they might pretend that they're not, but I know that's how I'm gonna live the cultural imagination at this point. That's how my work is gonna live on. It used to be like, oh, you got a great quotable line. Now it's like, no, you have something that communicates a very specific feeling and emotion and aesthetic in a way that actually language feels like it can't totally capture. And you've done that, and you've brought a cultural moment around it, and now it's being used as language, and that's cool. That's interesting.

Speaker 1:
[126:27] Yeah, well, there was a thing previously where we didn't think about communicating in this way, and I love how you've circled this, that was about the primacy of the shot, that it had to be something grand or epic or physically difficult to achieve, and now it is about the image, like the still or the locked, you know, moving GIF. And that is different too, and like that, I think, pretty dramatically changes like our cinematic expectations of what we think is good, what we think is memorable, what we think has value. And so the idea of someone like you saying, I'm gonna try to make one of these, or at least I think this could be one of those things, is really fascinating.

Speaker 5:
[127:04] I'm never approaching being like, oh yes, this is like, and this is the meme moment, but it's like maybe I'm on set and I see something and I'm like, oh, I can see how this could be used and captured that way linguistically, because that's just, that's how my mind has become wired.

Speaker 1:
[127:19] It's fascinating. So as I alluded to, we spoke three years ago, you said, I'm just about to start doing Faces of Death, and that's a long time has gone by since then. If you would have asked me a year ago, will I ever see this movie? I probably would have said no, just based on how I know things work. What happened? How did you get here? Maybe we can close with that.

Speaker 5:
[127:41] Yeah, for sure. I think that this is a project that Issa and I initially pitched in 2019. And just for context, when we were putting together our idea and we were trying to figure out which platform does this take place on? Is it Instagram? Is it YouTube? In terms of not literally, but spiritually. Issa was like, have you ever heard of TikTok? And I go, no, what's TikTok? And she introduced me to TikTok, and I think she immediately had this vision of like, with what TikTok is, with how it works, like the kind of phenomenon that we're talking about in the movie becomes like much more plausible. And so we built around TikTok and then we pitched, we got the job, we closed our deal like March 10th, 2020. So then COVID hit. And by the time we finished the script and we were like thinking about making the movie, like the business had completely changed and Legendary, which was kind of trying to get into the low budget genre game, that started to make a little bit less sense. And you know, but they still had some projects that they were passionate about, but we couldn't really figure out a path with Faces. And then I used that moment to go make Pipelines. I kind of used Faces as like a cudgel to get Pipeline together. So like that's how I put my cast together. And, and, and then I finished Pipeline. Then all of a sudden, like I had heat and they were like, great, let's go make Faces. And then the writer strike happened two thirds of the way through our shoot, which was very challenging. And we were like writing as we were shooting and that caused some, some issues. And then even getting into the post-production process, we had to hiatus for long periods of time because I wasn't allowed to do writing work on the film. And Isa wasn't allowed to do writing work on the film. You can't work with the actors on anything because you can't record ADR. So like that just made that whole experience very complicated. And then I think by the time the movie was done, I think it became very clear that like as you said, it is a movie that's poking the bear in a number of ways, in the kind of extremity of its content. But also in the fact that like it is very explicitly kind of calling out corporate media culture for also trying to kind of like own our nostalgia, our childhood, ring every last drop out of it. Like it's a weird question, like why remake Faces of Death? I think it's an interesting prompt, but it's one that ultimately we are kind of like, pointing the finger back and being like, yes, why make Faces of Death? And that's not exactly the kind of thing that I think, the big studios are gonna be excited about releasing. I know that at least the head of marketing for one major studio said that he thought the movie was morally despicable. And so I think that because a lot of Legendary's business, the way that company is structured is, they put movies out through the studio system. When it became clear that that was not really gonna be a viable path for the movie, when I think that we hoped it would be, then it was about, okay, now we have to kind of figure out where this lives in the market and the marketplace. And that just took time because it was a shift for them and a shift for how the movie was kind of initially built. And then even once we had found IFC as a partner, you know, because that conversation with IFC started a year ago. You know, so it just like, once we even figured out, okay, this is maybe a place to do the movie, just building out the deal and figuring out how to put the movie out, you know, just took time.

Speaker 1:
[131:20] Do you think you'll try to make another movie that could be released by a major studio?

Speaker 5:
[131:24] Yeah, absolutely. I'm working on one right now.

Speaker 1:
[131:29] So what were your takeaways from going through that particular process with this movie?

Speaker 5:
[131:34] I think, you know, I've actually been trying a different process with the way I've been working with studios. I think it's like, studios, everybody is just trying to value the movie. And everybody has their ideas about what is going to get an audience to go see a film, tell their friends to go see it, all of that. As William Goldman famously said, nobody actually knows anything about that. And I think that what I've witnessed is that as more and more of a private equity mentality moves into Hollywood, there's more and more of a push to get rid of the old, I in my gut as a producer or as a studio head, I just got a good feeling about this. I know enough about the culture, I know enough about the zeitgeist, let's go make this movie. That's how it used to work. And now it's like, no, no, no, no, no. All of this stuff has to be somehow proven out and de-risked and in a way that the model likes. And part of that is so that if the movie doesn't work, everybody goes, hey, the model said it was okay. It wasn't, wasn't my fault. Like, you know?

Speaker 1:
[132:43] Yeah. And so I think for me, I have a whole jag about how the, like, the death of the Hollywood studio executive, which is used to be a villainously perceived character in the 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s. But now that person has been transformed into the de-risked analysis monster that you're describing, which is actually in many cases significantly more insidious.

Speaker 5:
[133:03] Because I think there's some incredible execs I've worked with, like John Silket, legendary, who hired us, Alex Garcia over there, help with really brilliant people. But they're often sometimes, I think, the executive class in Hollywood right now is by and large, they just have a fraction of the power that they used to have. And so I think that for me, it's really about seeing the ways in which I did not understand the valuation mechanisms of Pipeline, of Faces of Death, and knowing a lot more of the questions to ask from like a very early on part of the process. Like, you know, very exactly, like what are the set pieces you need? What do they look like? Whether it's in a horror, whether it's in something else, you know, understanding like ahead of time, like where is the value add cast for you? How are we, you know, I have a project I'm working on where like, you know, I think figuring out even just the age range with a studio partner of like, you know, here's what we would want. Where does that leave? Like what our possible talent pool would be? So then I can actually like go and build a great story around something that I know makes sense for my partner's valuation incentive structure. You know, because like I can like, you're always working with like a limited set of things as a filmmaker in the studio system. You're always kind of working with like what you have. And so I'm kind of just trying to figure out like, okay, what do they care about? And then how can I make that a movie that I really also 100% want to make? And again, that's what everybody's been doing. But I think that as every financier and buyer and distributor becomes more and more boutique, you know, everybody has their own cast list. Everybody has their own idea of like what set pieces matter, you know? You know, some director will come down where somebody's like, we're into case study and jump scares aren't working anymore. And then that company will be like, we're not into jump scare game anymore. But then another company will like not have gotten that memo and they still feel like, you know, the jump scare ride is like the thing that matters. And like, now you're trying to take this project out to marketplace and like people are making decisions based on like whatever market research they've done. This is like a very different kind of situation. And so trying to really like find partners very early on and then like ask a lot of questions and build something from the ground up with them. So I feel like there's a studio buy-in on every single major decision. And that's all essentially documented.

Speaker 1:
[135:52] Yeah, it's really interesting. You have to be an anthropologist and a data scientist in order to be a director now.

Speaker 5:
[135:58] Yeah, but that's film making and art making is always a reflection of the time. You know, I think for me, I had a big revelation. I took a renaissance art class in college that I rarely showed up for. But there was this thing where you kept showing these great paintings of the Western canon, and then you realized that it's all sponkon for the church and the king. It's like the entirety of what we think of as Shakespeare was sponkon for Queen Elizabeth.

Speaker 1:
[136:34] Who can afford to pay these artists to make something?

Speaker 5:
[136:36] Exactly, and they're always trying to figure out how do I do? There's this amazing painting, Las Meninas by Velázquez. And this was learning about this painting, and it's like, this is a super critical painting of the court. This is a painting where he's really giving the middle finger to the court and to the king, and then he paid for it. And so I was like, OK, this is just the game. This has been the game since the beginning of time. It's always going to be the game. You always had to figure stuff out about art that has nothing to do with art, especially if you're working in any sort of a bigger commercial system, and then hopefully that experience feeds back into the work.

Speaker 1:
[137:17] Yeah, I, as I've been thinking about your movies, I did feel there was something really interesting and convulsive about Pipeline that I liked because it felt like more of a stick up and less of a smuggle. And I think that your other movies are kind of smuggles. And there's like a difference in kind of like, you can't get away with a lot of stick ups, you know? It's like you might get shot. And a smuggle is a different venture, you know?

Speaker 5:
[137:41] It's funny though, because I think that I really do feel like Faces of Death is a bit of both, but I think it is working inside of a genre that I think is just the ways that you are fulfilling those genre expectations are inherently kind of like, they're big, but they're very expected. There's lots of tropes that you kind of end up following. So it ends up feeling like it's more in one lane. But again, what I feel really proud about with Faces is like, I do hope that the movie is also in many ways a reflection on those tropes as they're deployed in kind of a big studio or IP film and that there is this question of like, why is this a structure that we kind of keep returning to and obsessing over? And so I'm hoping it's doing both, but I also know at the end of the day, I also just want people to go have fun and enjoy the ride.

Speaker 1:
[138:48] Okay, Danny, we end every episode of the show by asking filmmakers, what's the last great thing they have seen? And now I follow you on Letterboxd? Yes. You're log in frequently?

Speaker 5:
[138:57] Yes. Honestly, a real all-timer top 10 for me is The Wachowski's Speed Racer, which I think is a movie that has still not gotten its due. And I think it's a movie that it came at such a strange moment where digital tech was just getting good. And The Wachowski's were like, what if we did everything that we couldn't even think of? And you watch this movie and there's like shots that still don't have names that I haven't seen nowhere else. And I saw a 4K restoration of that at Beyond Fest. My first time seeing it in a cinema. And it's incredible. It plays like gangbusters. It still plays like a movie from the future. It's amazing. And for those people who haven't seen it, I highly recommend Seeking It Out. It's a really, really, really special film that I think works on every single level.

Speaker 1:
[139:55] Great recommendation. Congrats. Thank you so much. Thanks for coming back.

Speaker 5:
[139:58] Thank you.

Speaker 1:
[140:04] Thanks to Daniel Goldhaber, thanks to our producer, Jack Sanders, for his work on this episode. Thanks to our production support from Lucas Cavanagh. I mentioned we're heading to Vegas. I'm getting in the car in one hour. How long is it gonna take me to get there?

Speaker 5:
[140:19] I don't know.

Speaker 1:
[140:20] You've alleged that you'll be able to be there for dinner and drinks before CinemaCon starts. I hope so. That's my plan. I've got to see the Sony presentation at 6.30 as well.

Speaker 5:
[140:30] Yes. With all respect to Zach Kroeger, I will be having family dinner before I fly into Las Vegas. Girl dinner?

Speaker 1:
[140:37] No.

Speaker 5:
[140:37] Family dinner.

Speaker 1:
[140:38] I see. Is there a difference?

Speaker 5:
[140:40] I dine with boys.

Speaker 1:
[140:42] Boy dinner?

Speaker 5:
[140:43] Yeah. Boy dinner. I will be having three boy dinners.

Speaker 1:
[140:45] We'll have a great dinner.

Speaker 5:
[140:46] Then I will meet you in Las Vegas.

Speaker 1:
[140:48] Sounds good. See you then. We'll see you back on The Big Picture at the end of this week where we'll be joined by Matt Bellany and Craig Horlbeck to talk about CinemaCon.