transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:05] Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today.

Speaker 2:
[00:13] Normal is broke and common sense is weird, so we're here to help you transform your life from the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. This is The Ramsey Show, 88825. 5225 is the phone number on Ken Coleman, joined by the incomparable George Kamel, no bomber jacket today, just a shacket, and he's looking as...

Speaker 3:
[00:37] I didn't want to outdo you, Ken.

Speaker 2:
[00:38] You're looking as dapper as ever.

Speaker 3:
[00:40] Thank you.

Speaker 2:
[00:40] We're ready to go. Let's start it off with Zay in Austin, Texas. Zay, how can we help?

Speaker 4:
[00:47] Hi. I was just calling in, just want to say I love the show, and I'm new to Ramsey, but I'm really throwing myself into, you know, everything that y'all teach. I've already completed Baby Step 1, and I just wanted some direction on how to get through Step 2.

Speaker 2:
[01:01] Well, welcome aboard, Zay.

Speaker 3:
[01:03] Baptism by fire.

Speaker 2:
[01:04] Let's go. Proud of you. So, what's the picture? Give us the financial picture in Baby Step 2. What are we working on?

Speaker 4:
[01:12] We're working through about $53,000 in debt.

Speaker 3:
[01:16] You said 53?

Speaker 4:
[01:16] Including by now, yes, sir, 53,000.

Speaker 3:
[01:20] All right, break it down for us.

Speaker 4:
[01:21] And it's gonna be about $3,287 in by now pay later debt, $785 in personal loan debt, $39,380 in car debt. And I have five credit cards, one with Kay Jewelers for $1,415, one with Navy Federal for $4,300, one with Capital One for $1,500, one with Discover for $1,250, and another one with Chase for $1,000. And all those are maxed out, except for the card for the ring.

Speaker 3:
[01:59] I'm exhausted hearing about this. I can't imagine how you're feeling carrying it.

Speaker 4:
[02:04] Yeah, it's a lot.

Speaker 3:
[02:05] At least you know your numbers. That's honestly, that tells me you're actually gonna get out of this thing. Cause most people have no clue what's going on. They don't wanna know. And Zay, you've made a bold choice to go, I'm gonna stare this thing right in the face and tackle it.

Speaker 5:
[02:20] Love it. Absolutely, yeah, it's a lot.

Speaker 2:
[02:22] Tell us your income.

Speaker 4:
[02:25] So I actually just got promoted to full time from part time. So now I make $55,000 a year. And my husband's in the military and he makes $30,000 a year.

Speaker 2:
[02:34] Okay, so we're looking at $85,000. You guys are joint finances, I hope?

Speaker 4:
[02:39] Yes, sir.

Speaker 2:
[02:40] Okay, great. And is he on board with this Baby Steps stuff and this Ramsey stuff? Is he on board or is he freaking out, thinking that you got abducted by aliens? What's going on? Where's he at?

Speaker 4:
[02:51] Definitely abducted by aliens because I was like, hey man, we're doing all this stuff, man. We're paying off all these credit cards and then we're closing them. He said closing them. I said closing them. And he was like, we'll come back to it. I was like, okay.

Speaker 2:
[03:05] I knew it was one or the other, right? We've just taken too many calls. So George, that's now an interesting wrinkle in this process.

Speaker 3:
[03:11] Yeah. I want to know whose car this is.

Speaker 4:
[03:15] The car is in my name. It's mine. I had it before we got married.

Speaker 2:
[03:18] What's it worth?

Speaker 4:
[03:20] It's only worth $25,000.

Speaker 3:
[03:23] What's the payment on it?

Speaker 4:
[03:26] $800 a month.

Speaker 2:
[03:28] Yikes. Where's my Pepto Bismol, George? Do you have it?

Speaker 3:
[03:32] I think we ran out. You used the supply last week.

Speaker 2:
[03:35] Little indigestion on that one, that $800 a month car payment.

Speaker 3:
[03:38] Woof. Now, did you roll over negative equity? What happened here?

Speaker 4:
[03:43] Yes, I rolled over negative equity. I had a Chevrolet, which I didn't know those... Obviously, all of them depreciate, but apparently those super depreciate. And the only reason I wanted a different car is because I commute to work an hour every day and the car that I had wasn't going to suit the drive gas mileage-wise, so I got a 2025 Toyota Camry.

Speaker 3:
[04:04] That's the only car that could get you an hour each way. That makes sense.

Speaker 4:
[04:08] Yeah, I was trying to do...

Speaker 3:
[04:09] It was a joke, Zach. He's joking, Zach. You don't need a 2025 car to get you anywhere, okay? Just say you wanted a brand new shiny car.

Speaker 2:
[04:16] Stop shouting, George.

Speaker 3:
[04:17] I'm just...

Speaker 2:
[04:18] You're getting a little fired up.

Speaker 3:
[04:19] It was a test, Zach. It was a test.

Speaker 2:
[04:21] Let me ask a real quick question. What do you do for a living?

Speaker 4:
[04:25] I'm a bank teller.

Speaker 2:
[04:27] Okay. And I'm just asking, this is not the primary focus of your call, nor should it be our coaching, but I wonder if you could get a job in the near future doing bank telling or something similar for the same pay that doesn't require you to drive an hour each way.

Speaker 4:
[04:43] I actually did try to find a job in my area. We live right next to a base, so the area is usually not the best around it. And the pay, I make $24 here, and when I started job hunting, the most they would offer was $12 to $14 over there.

Speaker 3:
[05:00] All right.

Speaker 2:
[05:00] Very good.

Speaker 3:
[05:00] And why is your husband only making $30?

Speaker 4:
[05:04] He's pretty low rank. He's only an E3.

Speaker 3:
[05:07] But that still feels, I mean, that's close to minimum wage at this point.

Speaker 4:
[05:12] Yeah, I mean, they give us BAH and everything, but we don't see it because we live in base housing. So our roof over our head is taken care of.

Speaker 3:
[05:20] Well, that means your expenses are super low. So do you have any money left over at this point to throw at the debt?

Speaker 4:
[05:27] So, no, last year I quit my job for two months, and that was not the best choice. And we've been kind of drowning, just kind of treading water ever since, just trying to make sure things get paid at the very least.

Speaker 3:
[05:40] So you have a thousand bucks in savings and nothing else to your name?

Speaker 4:
[05:45] No, yeah, everything else is flying to bills.

Speaker 2:
[05:47] What kind of, have you done a budget to where you can answer the question of how much margin do you have that you could throw at this debt? And what I mean by margin is after we've paid the basics, so you don't have housing. So, I'm assuming you don't have utilities or any of that stuff. So your basic bills, above and beyond that, do you know how much you could throw at this debt every month?

Speaker 4:
[06:14] Well, what we wanted to do is try to start using only my, the money I make now, and then just surviving on his paychecks. It just seems kind of hard with the $800 car note.

Speaker 3:
[06:27] I agree.

Speaker 5:
[06:27] How to make that work.

Speaker 3:
[06:28] Staying in debt is going to be even harder. So we've got a hard choice to make here, which is we're going to have to get out of this car debt. And the only way to do that is to come up with the difference that we're underwater on. So you said it's worth 25. Was that private party value or was that a trade in value?

Speaker 4:
[06:44] I worked on Kelly Blue Book.

Speaker 3:
[06:45] For private party?

Speaker 4:
[06:47] Yes, sir.

Speaker 3:
[06:48] Okay. So that means you're 14 grand underwater on this thing. So that's the number we need to come up with. Now, do you have another vehicle you could use in the meantime?

Speaker 4:
[06:58] No, sir. We're a single vehicle family.

Speaker 3:
[07:00] So that's the one. So we need to also come up with a little bit more money to get you a different car that is used in cash, probably 5 grand.

Speaker 4:
[07:10] Okay.

Speaker 3:
[07:11] So once you add the 14 plus, let's say, the 5, that's about 20 grand that you need to come up with in order to get out of the 40. Do you see how that's a good deal?

Speaker 4:
[07:21] I do. Yes. That's what I was saying. We want to end up, he's going to be getting moved soon and we want to go overseas. So that's why we were really like, okay, we need to start going hard because we want to either get rid of the car or something like that. We want to go over there with like no debt whatsoever.

Speaker 3:
[07:35] What does going overseas do for you guys financially?

Speaker 4:
[07:39] Financially, we'll be going down to a single income. So we're hoping he'll get a little bit more rank and we just want to, you know, have a different living experience out base and stuff.

Speaker 3:
[07:49] I think this is a fantasy right now. You guys can't live off two incomes with the debt you have. And so this idea of going overseas is going to have to wait until you guys are completely debt free.

Speaker 4:
[08:01] Absolutely.

Speaker 3:
[08:02] So here's the math. You got 53 grand. Usually it takes people 18 to 24 months to pay off their consumer debt if they go hard using our plan. That means you got to be throwing 26.5 a year at this debt. That's about 2,200 a month. So that's the real napkin math of what it's going to take. And freeing up that $800 payment is your ticket, which means we got to save up 19, 20 grand fast by selling stuff, working extra, living on nothing. Then we can finally get some breathing room and crush the rest of our 14K in debt.

Speaker 6:
[09:00] This episode is brought to you by Welch's Fruit Snacks. Big news for your kids' lunchbox. Welch's Fruit Snacks are now made without any artificial dyes. A snack parents can feel good about, and the same delicious taste kids can't get enough of. All made with no artificial dyes. Try Welch's Fruit Snacks today.

Speaker 7:
[09:20] Feeding the fam isn't easy, but we got you.

Speaker 1:
[09:22] With Denny's Slammin Meal Deals starting at $5.99.

Speaker 7:
[09:25] Full meals for everyone, like a Grand Slam burrito for grandpa and a Super Slam for super mom.

Speaker 6:
[09:29] Get to Denny's now.

Speaker 7:
[09:30] Belly.participating locations for dinein or dennys.com.

Speaker 1:
[09:32] Limited time offer. Additional restrictions may apply at some locations.

Speaker 8:
[09:36] This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Financial stress does not just damage our bank accounts. It can also take a toll on our relationships and on our mental and emotional health. Money fights are one of the leading sources of conflict for couples. I know this personally. My wife and I have struggled over the years with money conflicts over and over again. Therapy can help even with money. Therapy is not about giving you financial advice, but it can give you strategies to better communicate about money, help you build healthier ways of coping, and help you build a plan to move forward with your mental and emotional health and your money. I want you to consider talking to my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is an online therapy platform that matches you with a licensed therapist based on your goals. BetterHelp therapists are fully licensed in the United States and they work according to a strict code of conduct. You can message your therapist and schedule sessions right in the platform. And if the first therapist isn't the right fit, you can switch at any time for no extra cost. When life feels overwhelming, therapy can help. Visit betterhelp.com/ramsey to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, help.com/ramsey.

Speaker 2:
[10:58] All right, next is Rose. Rose is joining us in St. Louis. Rose, how can we help today?

Speaker 5:
[11:04] Hello, gentlemen. The reason that I'm calling is because I am, I was the sole beneficiary of a life insurance policy, and I am completely illiterate when it comes to finances. And I've never seen this much, I've never dealt with this much money. I mean, it's not like a gazillion dollars or anything, but it's substantial. And I'm $51,000 in debt. I had a huge back surgery three years ago, and I'm still catching up from that. And it's a trust payment, it's a personal loan, a title loan, and it's credit cards and medical bills. That's what I owe. I'm receiving $125,000. And so your steps are going to be wiped out. And well, I mean, one, two, and three, and four, maybe, are going to be wiped out. But I don't know what to do with the rest of the money. And should I pay it all? Should I pay all of my debt at once? What should I do after I pay it? Okay, let's go back.

Speaker 2:
[12:19] Quick review, I want to... Gotcha, we got you. Let me, quick review. Is the total debt, everything you listed out, is the total debt equaling to 51,000 or is it 51,000 plus?

Speaker 5:
[12:31] That's total debt.

Speaker 2:
[12:32] So your total debt is 51,000?

Speaker 5:
[12:35] Correct.

Speaker 2:
[12:35] Okay, do you have any other money in savings?

Speaker 5:
[12:39] We have no savings.

Speaker 2:
[12:41] You have zero savings. And is the 125,000, is that net to you or is that before taxes?

Speaker 5:
[12:47] That's net to me. There's no tax in Missouri or I don't know the specifics, but I know I don't pay tax on life insurance.

Speaker 2:
[12:58] Okay.

Speaker 5:
[12:58] All right.

Speaker 2:
[12:59] George, take over, buddy.

Speaker 3:
[13:01] So Baby Step 1 is $1,000 starter emergency fund. You're right, that's taken care of. Baby Step 2, we're going to wipe out all the consumer debt, all 51. That's taken care of. And then you're going to build your three to six months of expenses in an emergency fund. And we're going to park that in a savings account. A high yield savings account is even better because at least it will grow a little bit and grow with inflation.

Speaker 5:
[13:20] What's high yield? What's that mean?

Speaker 3:
[13:22] That's just a type of savings account. They're usually tied to a lot of online banks. We've got a great one with Fairwinds Credit Union, who's a sponsor of this show. And they created a bundle just for our fans like you. And they've got it. And so you can go to fairwinds.org/ramsey, open up one of those. And that's a great place to just sock away money and not do anything with it right now. That's what I'm encouraging you to do.

Speaker 5:
[13:42] Six months.

Speaker 3:
[13:44] So what's six months of expenses for you guys to cover all of your bills? Without your debt payments?

Speaker 5:
[13:50] After my debt payments?

Speaker 3:
[13:51] That's gonna be nice, yeah.

Speaker 5:
[13:52] $1,500. Wow. We bring home 8,000 a month. I work for the Postal Service and my husband is a truck driver and we make decent money. But we've been robbing Peter to pay Paul when I was out of war. I lost $52,000 the year I had my back surgery and it crippled us. And I paid for funerals of my family. I've always taken care of everybody else in my whole life. And I've never been able to save for me because I've always felt guilt because I've had more money than other people in my family have. So I buried my parents, I buried my brothers, and I paid for all of that that goes with it. And I don't have any family left and it's just my husband and I, and I don't want anybody to know about this because I don't want to be taking advantage of it.

Speaker 3:
[14:38] It's just soul, Rose, it's just between you and a couple million listeners.

Speaker 2:
[14:41] Yeah, nobody knows, nobody knows.

Speaker 3:
[14:43] But I think you've been helping everyone your whole life. It's time to help Rose. Good for you. Who passed away?

Speaker 5:
[14:50] My ex-husband.

Speaker 3:
[14:52] I'm sorry for your loss, but the legacy here is Rose is set free from the bondage of her debts.

Speaker 5:
[15:00] Yeah, so what do I do? What do I do with the extra income after all my bills are paid?

Speaker 3:
[15:05] Let me lay out the math for you. $125,000 minus the 51 in debt, that leaves you with $74,000. You tracking?

Speaker 5:
[15:12] Okay.

Speaker 3:
[15:13] Let's set aside $24,000 in a high-yield savings account, and that's going to be your emergency fund plus, because you have been living a life of scarcity. It's time for a little abundance. This is your never going to debt again insurance plan. You understand?

Speaker 5:
[15:27] I could cry.

Speaker 2:
[15:29] Well, it's okay.

Speaker 3:
[15:30] You've never had $24,000 ready to protect your own.

Speaker 2:
[15:32] This is huge for you.

Speaker 3:
[15:33] It is emotional.

Speaker 2:
[15:34] It's a restart. Yeah, yeah. It's great.

Speaker 3:
[15:37] Imagine that. No debt payments and $24,000 sitting in the bank, and you still have $50,000 left over.

Speaker 2:
[15:43] Listen to this part, Rose. This is where it gets fun. George, tell her what she's won.

Speaker 3:
[15:48] You've won a lifetime without stress, Rose. So that $50,000 now can be used to do a couple of things. We can invest some of it. We can max out a retirement account, a Roth IRA, for example. We can invest outside of retirement if you have near-term goals, and you can use that to give and spend. When's the last time you spent money on yourself?

Speaker 5:
[16:08] Well, I want to buy a house, and I've never bought a house. So where does that go into all of that?

Speaker 3:
[16:12] Well, that becomes your start or down payment. So now we have 50 grand as a down payment. So what kind of house are you looking for? What's that going to cost you in your area for a reasonable home?

Speaker 5:
[16:22] I don't want no more than a $200,000 house.

Speaker 3:
[16:25] That sounds reasonable.

Speaker 5:
[16:26] $250,000 maybe. And we want a pool, a jacuzzi, a yard for our dog.

Speaker 3:
[16:30] Now we're talking.

Speaker 5:
[16:31] I want to find my dog. That's all I want. I don't want nothing luxurious.

Speaker 2:
[16:34] That's all George wants. Your list is the same as his. He wants a backyard, a jacuzzi, and he's got two dogs.

Speaker 3:
[16:40] I want a jacuzzi for the dog. That'd be ideal.

Speaker 2:
[16:42] You would do that.

Speaker 3:
[16:44] I'm sure it's a thing. So Rose, that's going to become your down payment money then. So you got your 24K emergency fund, 50K for your down payment, and then keep adding to it. Cause guess what? You make a grand, you spend 1500, you can sock away $6,500 a month toward that down payment fund.

Speaker 2:
[16:59] That's right.

Speaker 3:
[17:00] And earmark it. And in fair ones, you can actually earmark the different savings accounts. So mark one for emergencies, mark the other one for down payment, and just start adding money to that every single month.

Speaker 5:
[17:10] Okay.

Speaker 2:
[17:11] And with the nice income, George, that they've got, they should be able to get right into Baby Step 4 immediately with 15% when they're on every dollar.

Speaker 3:
[17:19] So every month-

Speaker 5:
[17:20] Now that's where I'm going to need to reach out to somebody. I bought the $79 thing. What's the $79-

Speaker 6:
[17:26] Oh, every dollar.

Speaker 3:
[17:28] Yes. So that is going to be the foundation of your financial world because you're going to be budgeting for every one of those dollars coming in so that they don't slip away into the abyss because Rose found a new opportunity to do something over here. And so that's going to help you make a plan for all those $8,000. And I'm going to hook you up with a dream team. Number one is a trusted real estate pro. Okay, you need someone in your corner who can help you shop within your budget, who knows Rose's goals, who understands the Ramsey way to help you do this smart. So ramseysolutions.com is the place to go.

Speaker 5:
[17:59] I know Dave said that the credit cards aren't the end all be all. You shouldn't have to have a credit card to be anybody special. And where do I, do you have someone within your team that will help me navigate on that app? Because I have our income in there, but I have no, I haven't got anything with it since I bought it. I have no idea what I'm doing.

Speaker 2:
[18:21] It has a coaching function in it.

Speaker 3:
[18:23] Yeah, click on coaching within the menu, and you can actually get a 10-minute session with someone from our team, an EveryDollarPro, who can help you get unstuck. And on top of that, there's a ton of group coaching, ongoing coaching you can jump into. I encourage you to do that. And then on the investment side, if you're like, hey, you said I'm illiterate when it comes to investing, I don't want to screw this up. We got you there too. You can reach out to a SmartVestorPro on our website, and they will help you navigate this newfound wealth that you're about to be building with your husband.

Speaker 2:
[18:52] Rose, have you seen the movie Titanic?

Speaker 5:
[18:55] I have.

Speaker 2:
[18:56] When was the last time you watched it?

Speaker 5:
[18:59] It's a favorite. Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[19:01] I would cue it up. I would cue it up after you do everything that George said, because, you know, Rose is the name of the title character. And I think this is like you and your husband, after you clear all these steps, it's your heart will go on. Maybe you go get a boat on the nearest lake, and you don't buy one, we're gonna rent one just for the day. We're gonna pay cash, and you're gonna get out there, and he's gonna be behind you, and you're gonna do the whole My Heart Will Go On, and you're free.

Speaker 3:
[19:29] And we'll let that be the end of the movie. We're not gonna continue in the plot.

Speaker 2:
[19:32] Yes, no more, just that part.

Speaker 3:
[19:33] Just the good part.

Speaker 2:
[19:34] Just the free, the debt-free part, right? That's what we're talking about. That's what life is gonna feel like on the other side of this. Pardon the cheesy metaphor, but it may be one of the greatest movies of all time, George.

Speaker 3:
[19:46] This is an amazing launchpad for you, Rose. I'm so proud of you. And you are very wise to be self-aware and a little paranoid and go, I don't trust people with this. I don't know what to do with this. I'm so glad you called us. We are here for you if you need anything else. ramseysolutions.com. Click on SmartVestor Pro. Click on Real Estate Pro. They will guide you in this. And our EveryDollar team will help you out.

Speaker 2:
[20:06] Get in there on the coaching side of it. Click the coaching button. EveryDollar is with you the whole way. You won't be alone. Rose, we're so proud of you. You're a blast of fresh air today. Thank you for calling us.

Speaker 9:
[20:47] One sweet melty bite of a Hershey's bar, and suddenly, I'm right back sitting on the front porch with my grandmother on a slow summer afternoon. She doesn't say much, just breaks the bar in half and hands me a piece. I open my mouth to say whatever a nine-year-old wants to say, and she replies with a low, shh, listen. So we sat there, listening. That was the first time I learned that quiet can feel full.

Speaker 6:
[21:14] Hershey's, it's your happy place.

Speaker 10:
[21:18] Hey, you guys, did you know that there are thousands of data brokers whose entire business is collecting and selling personal information, things like your home address, your phone number, and even your relatives' names? You guys, that is just crazy, but that is why I use Delete Me, because those companies that pull information from public records, social media, and all kinds of other places, then suddenly all that information shows up on random websites, and removing it yourself means going site by site, filling out forms, and hoping they actually take it down. It takes hours, and then it can even pop up somewhere else again. But Delete Me's team of privacy experts removes your personal information from hundreds of those data broker sites. And within a week, you'll get a report showing what they have found and what they have removed. And they keep scanning and cleaning up your data year round. So take back control of your privacy. Go to joindeleteme.com/ramsey and get 20% off your annual plan. That's joindeleteme.com/ramsey.

Speaker 2:
[22:38] Let's go to Jackie next in Philadelphia. Jackie, how can we help today?

Speaker 11:
[22:44] Thanks for taking my call.

Speaker 5:
[22:46] I have a situation.

Speaker 11:
[22:48] My daughter is getting ready to graduate from high school. She has an educational IRA that grandparents have been giving her money ever since she was a baby.

Speaker 5:
[22:58] Do we have that?

Speaker 11:
[22:59] We have about $30,000 in that. She was also gifted about $15,000 about four years ago. And I'm not exactly sure when, but her dad encouraged her to invest some, take some of that money and invest it in silver. He is under the impression that it is going to go to $300 and out.

Speaker 3:
[23:24] What kind of insider knowledge does he have? I think only God himself knows that information.

Speaker 11:
[23:30] Yeah, I keep asking those questions and it's maybe in conspiracy theory type stuff. He is very confident in his assertions. And hence my struggle with trying to get her to say, well, yeah, you probably have made some money recently in silver, but it's time to pull it out and put it into something less volatile. Like take advantage of what you've earned and put it into something that you're not going to lose on. And he wants her to hold on to it for the big win. And I'm seeing, like, it could also be the big lose. So I'm so sad. I would be sad for her to lose any gains that she's had. And I'm not confident in, like, going up against all his knowledge and trying to I wouldn't call it knowledge.

Speaker 3:
[24:20] I think that's a very generous word you used for his confidence.

Speaker 2:
[24:22] Yeah, it's a strong opinion. I may be hearing something and I may not. Are you two married?

Speaker 11:
[24:28] We're in the middle of a divorce.

Speaker 2:
[24:29] Okay, the way you were talking about it, okay, that makes sense, number one. And so that makes this trickier because now it's a splintered situation. Who knows what she's feeling? I don't know if she's taking sides. So this is a little trickier, George.

Speaker 3:
[24:43] Yeah, there was a lot of emotion and baggage behind it. Because if she takes his side, it feels like, oh, you're choosing now one parent over the other. Because you have different advice. And because you're not the quote unquote financial guru, you feel like you don't even have a voice in this conversation.

Speaker 4:
[25:00] Pretty much.

Speaker 3:
[25:01] Right?

Speaker 5:
[25:02] Yes.

Speaker 3:
[25:02] Which I'm going to go out on a limb here. Part of all of this is probably why this marriage is being dissolved.

Speaker 4:
[25:10] Yes.

Speaker 3:
[25:11] And so there's some really hard conversations you're going to have with your daughter, where you're not going to make him look bad, but you're going to share a different perspective and do it in a calm way that isn't conspiratorial or fear-mongering, which is probably what she's hearing right now.

Speaker 5:
[25:26] Yes.

Speaker 3:
[25:27] So, how old is she, you said?

Speaker 10:
[25:29] She's 18.

Speaker 3:
[25:29] Okay. She's 18 years old. And how much does she have total? Is it 15,000 total and she purchased some silver out of that?

Speaker 10:
[25:38] Yes.

Speaker 3:
[25:38] Okay. So, how much silver does she actually have?

Speaker 11:
[25:41] I asked her that and she's not exactly sure. Her dad told her that it may be up to 30,000 right now, but he's given her the impression that that's a static number. Like, you've got that and it's only on paper kind of thing.

Speaker 3:
[25:56] Okay.

Speaker 11:
[25:56] I'm not sure of her original investment. I'm not sure what her out numbers are.

Speaker 3:
[25:59] And this is physical silver that was purchased?

Speaker 11:
[26:02] Yes.

Speaker 3:
[26:02] Okay. Well, I can tell you the less stressful way to go about this is to just park that money in a tax advantage retirement account or even non-retirement account. It really doesn't matter. But the idea here is if this was working for her in the stock market from the age of 18 to let's say 58. All right. Let's give it a 40 year run. And let's say she did all 15,000 over there. Is that fair as well?

Speaker 5:
[26:26] I don't think so.

Speaker 11:
[26:28] 15, but okay.

Speaker 3:
[26:30] Let's call it 10?

Speaker 12:
[26:31] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[26:31] Okay. $10,000, 18 to 58. She never adds another dollar. Do you understand that she just parks 10K, lets it grow in the stock market?

Speaker 12:
[26:40] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[26:40] At a 10% rate of return, which they're going to come at me. That's just the data. If you look back, in fact, from 1950 to now, it's more like 11.8%. So if you just let it ride, she'd have over half a million dollars.

Speaker 12:
[26:53] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[26:54] And that's without her worrying about it, without her losing her physical silver, without worrying about what the economy is doing. And the truth is, silver and gold have gone up in value in times where the economy is shaky. And they go back down in value as the stock market picks back up. But over time, if you actually look at the full picture, you will see the stock market has far outperformed any of these commodities and assets. So I'm on team Jackie. I don't know how to convince your husband in the middle of that or convince your daughter while going through all of this. But the truth is, nothing is urgent.

Speaker 9:
[27:27] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[27:28] What did you-

Speaker 5:
[27:28] She does have school, like she's got college to pay for. Because this is her college money that-

Speaker 3:
[27:33] Will this pay for her school completely?

Speaker 11:
[27:36] Depends on what school she goes to.

Speaker 2:
[27:38] Well, so you've given us a lot of variables. What is the- How can we help you the most, now that we got a full picture? Is there something we didn't address?

Speaker 11:
[27:46] No, what you're saying is if we do cash it out, which is what I want her to do, so I'm going to- You think that's a good idea, take the whatever gains. And so you're saying it should be put in like another IRA, or- Because she's going to need to take it out in a year.

Speaker 3:
[28:03] Well, in that case, I would just cash it out and leave it in a high-yield savings account, so that it's liquid for her to pay for college. Because what's going to happen is she's going to go deeply into debt for college, because I guarantee you, unless she goes to the community college down the road, 10K ain't getting you very far.

Speaker 2:
[28:16] That's right.

Speaker 11:
[28:17] Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3:
[28:18] And there's no other money you're saying?

Speaker 11:
[28:19] No, she has $30,000 in an educational IRA. She has $30,000 educational and then this silver money is on top of it.

Speaker 3:
[28:26] Got it. So that's an education savings account, ESA? Is that what you're talking about?

Speaker 13:
[28:30] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[28:31] Okay. So that might get her through one year, potentially, depending where she goes. But we got to think about the next three. And so that's where, I mean, let's keep it liquid. I don't think you're going to see a lot of growth in the next one year, two year, three year. In fact, that money could go down. So you want to keep it more liquid because we need this for short term goals.

Speaker 2:
[28:48] And I'll just add this, Jackie, she's 18 years old. You already know there's very little control you have over a lot of the things she's doing now, what she will be doing when she goes to college. You've got an ex, soon-to-be ex-husband who is going to be telling her, hold it because I'm brilliant and I know this is going to pay off and then you're given the exact opposite advice. So I'm just trying to encourage you as her mother, this is not about winning the argument. I think you just have to say, can I give you another school of thought and do what George did with you, show her how that money should be used in your opinion and then you got to let it ride because you're just in a tough situation where you got two parents, she's the one that's the victim in this deal. And so we don't know the dynamics of who she's choosing, what she's feeling, who does she listen to more on money? Does she listen to her dad or you? So there's so much there. I'm just trying to make what is already a very tough situation for you. Hopefully as stress free as possible that you got to explain it and let it go. That's all you can do. You know what I'm saying, George? Like it's just a...

Speaker 3:
[29:55] And hearing that she's needing to go to college and pay for it, I go, it's not an argument about where to invest this money. It's we need to invest in her right now, in her current education, not what could happen in the future. If she does this right and graduates debt free, we're not going to have to worry about her investing for the future. She'll be just fine.

Speaker 2:
[30:11] That's exactly right. I want to stay where you were, where you just gave such a really nice little master class on what $10,000 one time turns into over half a million dollars. I don't think the average family with parents are saying, you know what, I may be struggling with debt. I may be trying to get out of this, but I've got a 15-year-old or 14-year-old. If I can start telling them this now, and they go get just a summer job at 15, 16, 17. It's not as difficult as we might think.

Speaker 3:
[30:47] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[30:48] For a young person to come up with 10 grand over the course of three or four summers, right?

Speaker 3:
[30:52] Well, investing in general has been democratized in the last even decade to where now it's easy to open a Roth IRA, and any child is actually excited about it because they saw TikTok about it. And so financial literacy is all around you. The problem is there's so much noise that no one ends up doing any of it. They just go, that's a cool, I'm going to save that for later. And yet no one's investing. And so if you can convince your kid that it's the old, what is it, the marshmallow test. You give a kid, hey, you can have one marshmallow now, or you can have two in an hour. Most of the kids are going to go, I'll take the marshmallow right now. And what this is, it's a lesson in delayed gratification. And at 15, your brain can't fully comprehend that. You want to go to the mall with your friends. You don't want to park in a retirement account. But you use our investment calculator at ramseysolutions.com. They're going to go, hold on, mom, I'm confused. 10,000 turned into 500,000. Explain that to me. Now you've got an end to talk about compound growth and the power of delayed gratification.

Speaker 2:
[31:50] And get in that calculator at ramseysolutions.com and punch in different numbers. I did this the other day, George, you've been very happy with my son. I'm so proud of you. My son, Chase, and one of his buddies, we were talking about it. I said, all right, let me get my laptop out. So I go downstairs, bring it back up. And I said, all right, guys, give me some numbers. After I explained it, they were losing their mind.

Speaker 3:
[32:06] They thought you were a mathematical genius.

Speaker 2:
[32:08] No, no, no, they just saw that. They were like, that's real. Versus me telling them versus showing them. It's good stuff.

Speaker 3:
[32:13] The calculator can't lie.

Speaker 1:
[32:28] When you've worked hard to buy a car the right way, you paid cash with no payments hanging over your head, the last thing you want is to worry about it every time you drive it. That's why we trust Christian Brothers Automotive as the official auto repair partner of The Ramsey Show. See, most people don't stress about their car because it's older, they stress about it because they don't know what's happening under the hood or trust the people that are working on it. But Christian Brothers Automotive uses digital vehicle inspections. You can actually see what your technician sees and know what's urgent and what can wait. Plus, Christian Brothers stands behind their work with their Nice Difference Warranty. Three years or 36,000 miles, whichever benefits you more. So if you want real peace of mind with the car you worked hard to own, go to cbac.com/ramsey. Use the promo code RAMSEY and you'll save 10% off your visit, up to $250. cbac.com/ramsey. See store for details.

Speaker 2:
[33:55] Hey, if you're working the Baby Steps, the best and fastest way to do it, George, is by using EveryDollar. It's more now than just a budgeting app. The plan is built into EveryDollar. In other words, you can track your progress, get personalized recommendations and coaching for your particular situation. And it's like having one of us walking around with you. Could you imagine having George on your phone all day long? I think I would be delightful.

Speaker 3:
[34:19] I think you'd turn your phone off eventually.

Speaker 2:
[34:21] No, I'm sick of this guy. I want to know if I could get you to record all the basic responses that Siri does for me, and it would be your voice.

Speaker 3:
[34:29] A little snark in there?

Speaker 12:
[34:30] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[34:31] Especially before you make a purchase. I think I could talk you off a lot of ledges.

Speaker 2:
[34:35] That's what we need. George as your conscience.

Speaker 3:
[34:38] Or I'm like, hey, Google a promo code first. That's a good idea.

Speaker 2:
[34:41] Hey, you can start every dollar for free right now by downloading it in the App Store or Google Play. Shannon's up next in Washington, DC. Shannon, how can we help?

Speaker 5:
[34:52] Hello. So I'm calling because I'm new to the snowball method. So I'm just trying to gather everything and get that down on paper. I need to get a new car because currently I am pregnant and my car that I currently have right now, it's been broken into a couple of times. There's issues with it. So I just don't feel safe having a baby in that car at the moment. The issue is that my car loan still has about $15,000 on it. And I called the car company and they don't refinance. So I would have to either have a new car loan with a new company for the new car in this current car loan, or I would have to find a car loan company that would take care of this current car and then also add a new car payment on top of that. And I just don't know really where to start on that, or if I should just wait until after I have the baby and like save and try to get like a car from like an auction or something.

Speaker 2:
[36:00] Well, let's play that one out. So that's our, the other two options aren't possible and aren't something that we're gonna agree to.

Speaker 3:
[36:08] You gave us this solution sucks and this one sucks even more. And therefore we're gonna find an option C for you that doesn't involve you going into more debt.

Speaker 2:
[36:15] So you were thinking, I could work, I could save. What does that look like? How long would it take you to save up enough money to get something dependable?

Speaker 5:
[36:25] Well, currently right now, I do work full time. I make about 65 a year. But unfortunately, my check right now is being garnished due to the devil of the credit cards.

Speaker 3:
[36:41] So you had a judgment against you from unpaid credit cards?

Speaker 5:
[36:45] Correct, yes.

Speaker 3:
[36:46] What other debts do you have?

Speaker 5:
[36:49] I have outside of the car student loans, about 12K on that. And that's about it. Again, I'm still new on finding all of my debts and pulling credit reports and stuff like that. So those are like the two biggest ones that I have.

Speaker 3:
[37:07] Okay. And you're married?

Speaker 5:
[37:10] No, not currently.

Speaker 3:
[37:11] Okay. Is the father in the picture?

Speaker 12:
[37:15] Yes, he is.

Speaker 13:
[37:16] He works full time as well.

Speaker 3:
[37:20] What do the finances look like for the family?

Speaker 5:
[37:24] Well, he works, he has two jobs. He works part time and then he has his own business. So, the part time, I would say probably about three to like $4,000 a month, no, probably $3,000 a month. And then his other business is a transport service. So, it kind of varies depending on the job that he did.

Speaker 3:
[37:47] So, likely is that $40,000 plus grand a year?

Speaker 5:
[37:53] Correct, probably.

Speaker 3:
[37:54] Okay. Are you guys planning on getting married?

Speaker 5:
[37:58] Um, eventually, but yeah, we're definitely surprised. We leave Gardner, but yeah, eventually that is the plan.

Speaker 2:
[38:04] Well, what is eventually? Do you have an idea if you were, and we're not holding you to this, but what do you-

Speaker 3:
[38:09] We're trying to get to the financial facts here, and it changes it drastically if you make $100,000 versus $60,000.

Speaker 2:
[38:14] So what is eventually, you think? If he was sitting here with George and I, we're just having a fun conversation, not putting you on the spot, and we go, what's eventually look like? When was you guys thinking that you guys were going to get married? What would he say, what would you say?

Speaker 5:
[38:27] I would probably say in like two years, maybe.

Speaker 3:
[38:30] Goodness gracious.

Speaker 2:
[38:31] Why?

Speaker 3:
[38:32] Shannon, is he the one or is he just the dad? You can be honest. Because I'm not going to force you to get married to someone you don't want to be married to.

Speaker 5:
[38:43] Right. Yeah. I mean, as it stands right now, he is just the dad. We do live together and we've been in this relationship as far as like it progressing. I mean, I'm not like 100% sure if it's going to be.

Speaker 3:
[38:57] So you're going to continue to play married couple, but not combine finances, have zero support, and just basically do all of this on your own while being a new mom.

Speaker 5:
[39:13] I mean, I never thought I'd be in this situation, but.

Speaker 3:
[39:17] Right. I know. I have so much empathy for you, because I'm going, this sucks so badly that if I was this person in your life, the father of your child, I'm going to go, well, time to put my big boy pants on and step up and provide for my wife, who's in crippling debt while being pregnant, because the stress of that is not good. Not good for you mentally, physically, emotionally. So the key to get out of this, back to your question, is we're not going to go into debt. We're going to save up with our income to get a different car. Now, how much is the car actually worth if you were to sell it?

Speaker 5:
[39:52] It has a lot of problems with it, because again, somebody tried to steal it a couple of times. So when I did like the Kelly Blue Book, it probably only worked like $5,000 at the most.

Speaker 3:
[40:02] Did you file any insurance claims?

Speaker 5:
[40:05] I didn't have insurance at the time.

Speaker 3:
[40:08] Oh boy. Do you have insurance now?

Speaker 5:
[40:12] For that car, no.

Speaker 3:
[40:14] Shannon, you are putting yourself at huge risk. I would cut everything down to the bone before I went without insurance.

Speaker 12:
[40:25] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[40:27] This is bad. You make $65,000. Is there not a dollar left at the end of the month?

Speaker 5:
[40:34] No. Well, I mean, there is, but I had really bad payday loans.

Speaker 4:
[40:39] And so that was taking a lot of my money.

Speaker 5:
[40:44] At one time and I mean, there's still some of them that are due, but I'm...

Speaker 3:
[40:51] So we're adding, you told me you had car loans, student loans and credit card judgment, but not payday loans. How much is on the payday loans?

Speaker 5:
[40:59] Well, I had, I'd probably say in total, probably like $7,000.

Speaker 3:
[41:04] Okay. Let's get real clear on that credit report. Let's lay them out smallest to largest. And then you're going to make a budget for the first time. I'm going to gift you every dollar, our premium budgeting app, so that you can make a plan on purpose with this app and then stick to it. So that if you get $4,000 or $5,000 in a month, you're going to know where every single dollar is going. And all you're going to do is cover your four walls right now. Food, utility, shelter, transportation, and insurance. You're going to get car insurance today. You're going to go to ramsysolutions.com, and our team can help you find the coverage that you need in your budget. That's your number one piece of homework. And then after that, it's that every dollar budget. Set it up. Our team will walk you through it. You can set up a free coaching call right there in the app to jump on a call with someone from our team if you get stuck. And then it becomes a game of how much can I save, how quickly can I save? Because we have some urgency here with this baby on the way. When does the baby do?

Speaker 5:
[42:01] In August.

Speaker 3:
[42:03] So we only have a couple of months to do this. Which means in the meantime, the baby might need to survive in this vehicle. And the good news is you're not going to leave that baby alone in the car. The car is not getting broken into while you're in it, right?

Speaker 5:
[42:18] Right, yeah.

Speaker 3:
[42:19] And so as long as it's not dangerous, it's not overheating on the highway, you're going to have to drive this car for a season until you have enough to get a different car.

Speaker 8:
[42:27] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[42:29] And Shannon, listen, you're going to talk to other people that are going to tell you that we're crazy and that you need a safe, brand new car and you'll just figure it out. But I'm going to tell you something. How would you describe your stress on a scale of 1 to 10 related to money right now?

Speaker 13:
[42:45] Well, like a 12.

Speaker 2:
[42:46] 12. Okay, do you think that's good for your little baby and your body?

Speaker 3:
[42:53] And do you think taking on another car payment that's even bigger is going to help in any way, shape or form to help you get out of this mess?

Speaker 2:
[43:01] No.

Speaker 3:
[43:03] We might be the only people telling you the truth.

Speaker 2:
[43:04] That's exactly right. And you can do this, by the way.

Speaker 3:
[43:06] We're rooting for you. We're not trying to be harsh on you. We're trying to give you the reality so you can face the facts and then take the proper next steps. So jump on ramseysolutions.com, get that auto insurance. We'll help you get that every dollar budget set up. And you will feel so much better just being able to look at the numbers in reality. Hey guys, George Kamel here. Listen, we need to talk about your phone plan, because for a lot of you, it's like a bad roommate. You know the one, unpredictable moods, always asking for money, hard to get rid of, and they never do the dishes. And that's what the so-called big wireless carriers are like. They're counting on you overpaying forever. But Boost Mobile flipped the script. You can unlock up to $600 in savings per year over the big guys when you switch to Boost Mobile on their unlimited plan. There's no contracts, no hidden fees, and no surprise emails saying, hey, your bill went up because reasons. You see, with Boost Mobile, you bring your phone, keep your number and pay just $25 a month. $25 and that price is locked in forever. So if you're thinking, okay, George, that all sounds great, what's the catch? There isn't one. Boost Mobile back set up with a 30 day money back guarantee, which means you can try it without feeling trapped. People kick the bad roommate out. Head to boostmobile.com/ramsey to make the switch today. That's boostmobile.com/ramsey.

Speaker 7:
[44:36] Based on average annual payment of AT&T, Verizon and T-Mobile customers compared to 12 months on the Boost Mobile Unlimited Plan as of January 2026. See website for full details.

Speaker 2:
[44:53] Welcome back to The Ramsey Show and the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio. I'm Ken Coleman, George Kamel is alongside. We're here for you today. 888-825-5225 is the number to jump in. Chase joins us in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Chase, how can we help today?

Speaker 13:
[45:09] Well, hi sir. Like you already know, my name is Chase. I'm 20 years old. I currently work as an auto body technician, which means as a flat rate employee, my income is quite variable. With that being said, I'm about $30,000 in debt spread across the $16,000 board decision toolbox, about $11,000, a little more to my grandparents' interest free. And the rest is all on credit cards and whatnot. My main question is, is I have a horrible issue with a spending problem whenever I'm doing good work and if I were to get stressed out, I just go and all my money in retail therapy. And what I can pay off in debt by the time I end up having a slow period and work like now around spring break, nobody's getting their cards fixed, I end up underwater and barely able to make my bills.

Speaker 2:
[46:19] Well, the first thing I want to say to you is, good on you for calling us and calling out what's going on. I mean, the self-awareness is awesome, Chase, and I think that's the first step to you winning. You know, I just want to applaud you because you know there's something going on inside of you that when something goes wrong, stress, whatever, you immediately go buy something to make yourself feel better. That's a big deal and I can encourage you to keep digging into that and come up with tools, whether that's to go see a therapist or just do some hard work to go, you know what, I'm going to create some accountability in my life. I'm going to have somebody that I can call and that can talk me off the retail therapy ledge, okay? I just wanted to encourage you on that because that's half the battle, okay? So let's get into this debt. Did you, let's talk about lay it out. Give us the smallest to largest.

Speaker 13:
[47:14] Smallest to largest. The smallest are some payment plans like Chase Pay and Forge, Cash App Borrow that I use on the slow weeks when I don't have enough to cover my bills and I have to tap into those to, you know, buy food.

Speaker 3:
[47:30] I got a great solution for that. Can you delete those apps?

Speaker 12:
[47:36] I, well, the Chase is my Chase banking app.

Speaker 3:
[47:40] Stop banking with Chase.

Speaker 12:
[47:42] Stop banking with Chase?

Speaker 3:
[47:43] Yeah, switch banks.

Speaker 12:
[47:46] OK.

Speaker 13:
[47:47] And the Cash App, is that that's how I pay my grandparents?

Speaker 3:
[47:51] Use Venmo. Use Zelle.

Speaker 13:
[47:53] Use Venmo.

Speaker 3:
[47:54] Think about it. If this was a casino, you'd be like, well, I should probably make it really difficult for me to go into the casino again.

Speaker 2:
[48:02] What kind of stuff are you buying?

Speaker 13:
[48:06] Really, it's anything. I mean, it used to be, it used to be tools through Snap-on and all the other tool brands, but I've gotten myself away from that, and it's just turned into...

Speaker 2:
[48:18] What are you buying? Give me a quick list. There's a reason I'm asking this.

Speaker 13:
[48:22] Yeah, clothes, video games.

Speaker 8:
[48:27] I'd sell it.

Speaker 2:
[48:28] I think you need a behavior. George is locking in on something. He inspired me to ask that question. You've got to make some changes. That's why I said change the bank, delete the apps. You've got to make some changes to try to put up some hurdles because you're just so quickly salving your wounds by spending. So I was hoping you had some tools. I was thinking a guy in your line of work had some really expensive tools that we could sell. And even if it's 80% of what you bought it for, that's real cash to create some initial momentum. And actually, I think it's ritual. I'm a big fan of rituals at times. When the rituals are tied to change in emotion. And I think you need to go sell some stuff, even it's clothes. You've got to go take it to a second hand store and get 50% of what it was or whatever that is. I have no idea.

Speaker 3:
[49:16] There's like Poshmark and all kinds of apps you can use to sell stuff. So I would only download an app if it's going to make you money, not cost you money. That's your new filter and value.

Speaker 2:
[49:25] That's good.

Speaker 3:
[49:26] And then I'm confused, Chase, because we got a lot of great auto body shops around here. I can't get a car in there. They're like, hey, we got a two week backlog. And so I don't buy that work is so slow that nobody's bringing their car in. I don't know what that says about the shop you're working for, but I would find one that stays busy.

Speaker 12:
[49:45] Yeah, and that has been the problem, too.

Speaker 13:
[49:47] I actually made that decision a few months ago. The last shop I was at was slowing down because of poor management and whatnot.

Speaker 12:
[49:57] That's the true reason.

Speaker 3:
[49:58] That's why shops slow down, not because cars stop breaking down randomly during spring break.

Speaker 2:
[50:03] Yeah, good point.

Speaker 3:
[50:04] So there's problem number one. What are you actually making per month on average?

Speaker 13:
[50:09] On average, about, like I said, it's so hard to know. On a good month, I'm making 6,000. On a bad month, I'm making 25 to 3.

Speaker 3:
[50:21] Okay, and are you living at home?

Speaker 13:
[50:24] No, I have my own place.

Speaker 3:
[50:26] Okay, what's your rent cost?

Speaker 13:
[50:28] $750 a month.

Speaker 3:
[50:30] Okay, that's reasonable for your income, so that's not the issue. So here's what we need to do. On the good months, you need to go, that is not my money to spend. That is Chase Bank's money. That is the buy now, pay later company's money, because it's really not yours. You signed something that said, I will pay you this money back when I have it, right?

Speaker 13:
[50:50] Right.

Speaker 3:
[50:51] So now it's an integrity issue. So just make it an integrity issue and then remove all of the reasons you could go spend that money. And that means deleting the apps, adding the friction, cutting up the credit cards. Have you actually closed these credit cards and closed these buy now, pay later accounts?

Speaker 13:
[51:08] I have not.

Speaker 3:
[51:09] That's your next homework assignment. You know how I've stayed out of debt? I was 40 grand in debt when I was 23 years old, Chase. And when I got out, you know how I stayed out? I didn't give myself the option to go back in. I didn't have a way. I froze my credit with all three credit bureaus because I know I'm able and willing to do stupid stuff with money. So that's the kind of value line in the sand you need to draw for yourself because the good news is you are so young that you have so much time to make up for the stupid tax and one day you'll look back and go, that was cute. Remember when I was in 30 grand of debt? Never again, man. I learned my lesson.

Speaker 2:
[51:43] Yeah. And I'm going to tell you something. Your way out of this, Chase, is getting to a better shop or picking up a second job where there's a good run shop and they need quality hands. I just think you have way more money you're leaving on the table than you realize.

Speaker 3:
[51:59] You could go detail cars in people's driveways and make 500 bucks in a weekend. Okay. True or false? True.

Speaker 2:
[52:09] And Chase, we're trying to encourage you. You are not that much in debt. I mean, the kind of calls we get, I'm telling you 30 grand for somebody like you who has ability, who has time, and I think you got the gumption now. Again, that's why I applauded you right at the start of the call. You want to change, don't you?

Speaker 13:
[52:28] I really do.

Speaker 2:
[52:29] Okay. You know what's on the other side of this is you deciding to do what George said, but then actually go work yourself silly. And when you have a bad day, instead of retail therapy, you go work somewhere. You got me?

Speaker 13:
[52:42] I got you. And one more question.

Speaker 2:
[52:48] We don't have a time for another question. I apologize. But you got enough to work on.

Speaker 3:
[52:52] You got enough answers here. Go back and watch this call as your homework assignment. And don't do it because Ken and George said to. Do it because Chase's future is worth it. That's the new value you have for every single time you go to spend money.

Speaker 1:
[53:41] When you're drowning in credit card debt and collectors start threatening lawsuits, a rep from some call center debt relief company can't protect you. A lot of so-called debt relief programs leave people wondering, am I actually protected if I get sued? When all you've got is a legal plan added on as an upsell, of course you feel stuck. But Guardian isn't another debt relief company. They're real attorneys. And with Guardian, you're assigned an attorney from day one. That means if a creditor sues, you're not scrambling and you're not hit with surprise legal fees. Now look, I'm telling you straight, debt settlement isn't pretty. I'd rather see you get out of debt the old-fashioned way. But if you're out of options and you're staring down bankruptcy, Guardian gives you real protection and a path forward. Guardian's attorneys have helped over 55,000 people across the country settle more than $600 million in debt. Not with gimmicks, with legal expertise. So, if you want real help instead of a sales pitch, go to guardianlit.com/ramsey. That's guardianlit.com/ramsey.

Speaker 2:
[54:50] Attorney advertising, results may vary and no specific outcome is guaranteed. All right, let's go to Frank in Atlantic City, New Jersey. Frank, how can we help today?

Speaker 13:
[55:15] Hi, this question is about my 10-year-old daughter. My household income is about double that of my ex-wife's. And lately, my daughter has been saying to me things like, that's so expensive, or she wants to pay for things that are my responsibility, like clothes and shoes, the money she's gotten either for birthdays or holidays or for chores. What can I do on my end to help her with what I think is just a worry about money that maybe she's getting from my ex-wife's situation?

Speaker 2:
[55:47] Yeah, that's really interesting. Do you talk about money around her when you were married even just a few years ago? She's 10, so she's been picking up stuff. Probably even at 6 and 7, began to pick up anxiety around money. I wonder if before you got divorced, was that situation where she would have overheard arguments about money or do you think it's all from your ex-wife talking about money in a fearful way, always telling her, we don't have enough, we don't have enough? What do you think is driving the fear?

Speaker 13:
[56:21] We've been divorced since she was around 5. I think maybe just that situation.

Speaker 2:
[56:29] So really it's your ex-wife you think is scarcity mindset based on reality and talking about it a lot around her?

Speaker 13:
[56:38] Maybe.

Speaker 2:
[56:39] I'd ask. You know what I would do if I were you, and again, I'm a dad. If I was in your situation, I'd sit down with her and go, hey, honey, you know that dad can buy that for you. I have more than enough money to be able to do these things for you, but you're worried about it. Can we talk about that? What causes you to worry about it? Just real, don't put her on defense, but just real, you know how to connect to her. I would get her to talk to you about it. And what you want is her to tell you her fears and worries, but more importantly, you want to know why she's worried and what's causing it, and that you need to address. And then, when you buy something for her, go, hey, honey, I want to reassure you, I've got plenty of money, dad's very smart, use phrases that one day she'll understand, like I budget, you know what I mean? Just talk to her like she's an adult, and she'll pick up a lot of it, but what she's looking for is reassurance. And so when you go to buy her something, she's projecting onto you what I guess she's picking up from her mother. George, am I off on this?

Speaker 3:
[57:51] No, you're spot on. It reminds me, Rachel Cruze wrote a book, Know Yourself, Know Your Money, and she walks through these different money classrooms we grow up in, and this is the anxious classroom, like we're getting at here, and she's worried about. There is a scarcity mindset, and the best thing you can do is to reframe this whole thing as, hey, what I'm doing for you is a gift, which means you need to do nothing in return. This is an act of generosity. This is not a sacrifice. You're not putting me out. You're not a burden. This is something I want to do as your father who loves you. And I think that's the best thing you can do for her is realize this isn't your money. You might have financial worries one day. Today's not that day, sweetheart. Daddy's got you.

Speaker 13:
[58:30] All right.

Speaker 3:
[58:31] And she's so young that she can't fully even understand what's going on. And so these conversations will continue and they'll get a little more intense as she gets more age appropriate. And then teach her to give too. I think that it's one of the most freeing things you can do for someone who's anxious with money is to show them that if they give it, it will actually lower their anxiety and they're not going to run out of money all of a sudden. I think that's it. Money comes from work. Dad works hard. Dad stays out of debt. Dad put money in savings and now he has the ability to be generous with other people, especially those that he loves. And you are one of those people.

Speaker 2:
[59:07] And Frank, you're a good dad, you know? So keep taking care of your money. Are you solid financially?

Speaker 4:
[59:14] Yes.

Speaker 8:
[59:15] No debt?

Speaker 4:
[59:18] Finishing up a tiny bit.

Speaker 2:
[59:20] What's that?

Speaker 3:
[59:21] Finishing up?

Speaker 14:
[59:22] Finishing up a tiny bit.

Speaker 2:
[59:23] Okay, great. So, hey, that's the other thing. Get out of debt. Have a strong emergency fund. You know what I mean? And all of those things are going to give you more peace. And here's what the reason I asked that, Frank, is not to put you on the spot. It's to tell you that everything we just said will help. But what will help even more is if she feels zero tension coming off of you around money. And if you're debt free with a fat emergency fund and a great retirement plan, you're going to put out an ease that she will pick up on.

Speaker 3:
[59:55] Makes sense? More is caught than taught, as we say.

Speaker 2:
[60:00] That's the last piece of it.

Speaker 3:
[60:01] All right. And I don't know on both sides, because there's a divorce in the mix, does it feel like you're trying to buy her love? And I know you're not doing that, but does it come across that way when mom feels small now because dad bought her all this stuff? Is that part of it?

Speaker 13:
[60:18] I don't know. No, I don't think so.

Speaker 3:
[60:20] Okay.

Speaker 2:
[60:21] Yeah. Well, take her out on a date, do what we told you to do, and then explain to her, hey, I'm in good shape, this is what I'm doing. And begin to just talk about what you're doing. I'm going to be debt-free in four months. And then this, and it like, just talk to her, and she's going to feel that. And more importantly, learn what you're doing. And we hope she learns yours, because, and we're not trying to create a contrast here, but if she experiences you very differently on money than she does her mother, hopefully she's going to go, dad's modeling the way, and you are the model, and that's what she goes after. So thanks for the call, Frank. Anthony's up in Cincinnati. Anthony, how can we help you today?

Speaker 13:
[61:02] Thank you all for taking my call. A little bit of background, I turned 52 next week. I worked for Dave's absolute favorite employer, the IRS, since 2008 in IT. My plan and my wife were to retire in five years from the IRS, that would give me the full medical, dental, all that good stuff. This year, I was moved out of IT with a whole bunch of other folks to reviewing business tax returns. I hate this job.

Speaker 3:
[61:33] You didn't sign up for that, did you?

Speaker 13:
[61:35] No, I signed up for IT, and a whole bunch of us just got moved over. But what I'm trying to get at is, I'm looking at changing careers and studying for my SI E exam and moving to like a Charles Schwab type place. And the point of my call is, I'm just looking for permission to make that change.

Speaker 2:
[61:56] Yeah. Well, it's not something that I can give, but I will tell you that you absolutely should change. Because just go down the rabbit hole tonight on what stress in a job that you can't stand in. It's a different kind of stress. It's a, I have no purpose in this. I can't stand it. Just go do the research on what it does to your body, what it does to your mind. And that will be, I think, the last domino that needs to fall. I don't even think you need it, but I would go do it. I absolutely believe you should transition to something else. You're still a young guy. You still have a lot of life left and a lot you can give. And quite frankly, a whole lot more money you can make. So I absolutely would get out of there as soon as I could. I would not stay around for health benefits and pensions. I just never would.

Speaker 3:
[62:45] Because your health is going to decline in the next five years.

Speaker 2:
[62:47] I'm not going to trade five years of misery for really good eye care, dental care and all those things. When you can afford that and a better gig.

Speaker 13:
[62:57] The only additional piece of information, because my wife is pushing in the same direction you all are, is I'm probably going to take about 100k pay cut per year to make this transition.

Speaker 3:
[63:09] Well, what are you making now?

Speaker 13:
[63:11] 170k.

Speaker 3:
[63:14] And you're going to go down to 70, you think, if you move into the financial sector?

Speaker 13:
[63:19] I will take an entry-level position just to get my foot in the door and work up from there. But yeah, I'll take that amount of 70k.

Speaker 2:
[63:27] It's never the ideal situation. My question is, if that happened today, could you live off of 70k?

Speaker 13:
[63:35] Absolutely. We've been listening to Dave and following him for 20 years. So we've got, we're totally debt free, including the house. We've got the emergency fund and all that good stuff.

Speaker 3:
[63:44] How much do you have in the nest egg?

Speaker 13:
[63:45] We could survive. The nest egg is 750k in the TSP and 55k cash liquid.

Speaker 3:
[63:53] Fantastic.

Speaker 2:
[63:54] I'm going to say yes and. I'm okay with you taking the cut if you take your IT experience and you do some freelancing for maybe 6 to 12 months until you get your sea legs, if possible. I know that's with an asterisk, but maybe, maybe we could get $50,000 in some freelance work with your technology skills.

Speaker 3:
[64:17] And maybe you go get a great IT job in the meantime and work on your licensing and then you switch over.

Speaker 2:
[64:23] That's right.

Speaker 3:
[64:23] That's a nice bridge too.

Speaker 2:
[64:25] I like the bridge here, Anthony. That's what we're telling you.

Speaker 3:
[64:27] It makes it less, that's a cliff. I got to jump.

Speaker 2:
[64:30] That's right.

Speaker 1:
[64:58] Listen, identity theft doesn't just happen just because you're careless. You can do everything right and still become a victim. Whether your information is skimmed online, stolen through a scam, or exposed in a data breach, which happens every day, then it becomes your problem, your time, your money, your paperwork galore. That's why I've told people for years to have identity theft protection. And the only plan I've ever recommended is from Zander Insurance. Zander monitors for signs of fraud, even home title fraud, and they send alerts when something looks off. Most important, if something happens, you're not stuck spending hours on hold filing forms and arguing with companies trying to fix it. Zander's dedicated restoration team steps in and does the hard work to help restore your identity. You can even protect your kids for free on their family plan. Go to zander.com or call 800-356-4282 to protect yourself today. Identity theft is everywhere. Zander is how you fight back. zander.com.

Speaker 2:
[66:22] All right, today's question of the day is brought to you by WhyRefi. If you've fallen behind on your private student loans and have stopped making payments, it can feel like every door is closed, but WhyRefi helps borrowers explore low fixed rate refinancing options that fit their budget. Go to whyrefi.com/ramsey, that's the letter Y, refy.com/ramsey. It may not be available in all states.

Speaker 3:
[66:43] Today's question comes from Ryan in Montana. I've been following the Baby Steps for two years and it feels incredible to no longer be living paycheck to paycheck. I no longer use credit cards and want to close them as part of embracing a cash only lifestyle. What is the wisest way to approach this? Do I close them all at once or is there a smarter, more gradual approach I should take? If I close them all at once, are there any potential risks I should be aware of? Great question from Ryan, very astute.

Speaker 2:
[67:09] Yes.

Speaker 3:
[67:10] I rarely use that word, but this feels like the time.

Speaker 2:
[67:12] I was getting ready to compliment you on good usage there.

Speaker 3:
[67:14] Sometimes the words just come to me, Ken.

Speaker 2:
[67:16] It does.

Speaker 3:
[67:17] So at the heart of the question is, he wants to follow the plan. He's worried about essentially his credit score. That's really what's at risk here of the credit score going down as you close all these cards, because your credit score is partially based on how many accounts you've had open, how long they've been open. And so when you close these, you hurt the credit score gods. They're very upset that you've abandoned them and they will punish you with a lower score temporarily. Now it's not going to tank your credit. You're not going to have an issue like renting an apartment. But in the meantime, for a couple of months, it might dip a little bit. And then what will happen if you truly close all open accounts that have to do with debt? You will have no credit score after about 6 to 12 months if you do it right. That's what happened to me. It's what's happened to several people out there, millions now, that have followed this plan that are credit invisible, as we call them. So your credit score becomes indeterminable and then you just live your life. And renting a car, every rental car company has a debit card policy. When it comes to renting an apartment, they'll go, hey, are you a criminal? Nope, great. You'll have to pay a little bit more in the deposit, but sure, you can rent from us. And even with a mortgage, I went through a process called manual underwriting to get a mortgage without a credit score. And it was all kind of a nothing, Burger Ken. They kind of made it out to seem like you cannot live without a credit score. You can't live without a credit card. And I realized very quickly it was a farce because they've never done it. So there you go. Just go for it. I don't think you're going to regret it on the other side. And you got to do it all in. That means closing all accounts that have to do with debt in order to actually have no credit score.

Speaker 2:
[68:54] Yeah, absolutely. Good advice. Let's go to Jim next in Dallas, Texas. Jim, how can we help today?

Speaker 14:
[68:59] Hey, guys. How are y'all?

Speaker 2:
[69:00] Good. What's going on?

Speaker 14:
[69:02] Hey, so I'm switching employers in two weeks. I got a better paying job. But a year ago, unfortunately, I took out a 401k loan. I've been paying on it, but I owe about $15,675 left on it. And I'm not sure what I should do about that because I don't have that money. And it's going to become, it's going to default basically if I don't pay it off within like 30 days. Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[69:28] Did you get the actual details in the fine print? Is it 30 days from today? Or when you, you already put in your two weeks.

Speaker 14:
[69:36] Yeah. It's from date of separation. So when I, when I leave the company 30 days later.

Speaker 3:
[69:41] Okay. So what day is that?

Speaker 14:
[69:45] I think it's like May 22nd.

Speaker 3:
[69:50] May 22nd. So we've got a little over a month. How much can you save up in a given month? Is there a bonus from the employer? Is there anything like that?

Speaker 14:
[70:00] No, no bonus. I'm putting about 6,000 away in for the debt snowball right now. We're on Baby Step 2, so I can ramp that up a little bit, but not enough to cover the gap.

Speaker 3:
[70:12] Do you have anything you could sell? Or is there anything you could do as a side hustle?

Speaker 14:
[70:16] Well, we've sold everything but the kids already. But I'm not sure.

Speaker 3:
[70:21] And you're married?

Speaker 14:
[70:23] Yes.

Speaker 3:
[70:23] Okay. Spouses working outside the home as well?

Speaker 14:
[70:26] Yes, indeed.

Speaker 3:
[70:28] What income is going to roll through your fingers in the next 30 days?

Speaker 14:
[70:34] We're doing about 12,000 household income right now. I think it should go up to about 13.5 with the new roll.

Speaker 3:
[70:41] And how much do you need to survive and pay the bills and minimum on debts?

Speaker 14:
[70:46] About $4,500.

Speaker 5:
[70:47] Okay.

Speaker 3:
[70:48] So that's eight grand you could pay?

Speaker 14:
[70:51] Yep. Sounds right.

Speaker 5:
[70:52] Right?

Speaker 3:
[70:53] And that's just if we just use that income and do nothing else. We don't find extra stuff to sell, stuff to flip, do side hustles, get the whole family involved here. So the best option is obviously to pay the balance back within the window. I would find out, generally it's a 90-day window, so I'm surprised this one is a 30. I would see if there's any leniency with that if you go, hey, can you give me 60 days?

Speaker 14:
[71:18] Okay.

Speaker 3:
[71:19] That's your best bet because in 60 days you got it covered.

Speaker 14:
[71:23] Yeah, somebody had mentioned the idea of a QPLO and paying it back by the next tax year. But I've never heard of that.

Speaker 3:
[71:31] Yeah, I'm not familiar with the old QPLO. I'd have to look into that. But the worst thing you can do is to do nothing and let it default because you will lose 30 to 40 percent of that loan balance to the IRS. So that will just absolutely destroy your wealth. So I would just act like this is my one goal in life is to pay this back. I make this like a Liam Neeson movie.

Speaker 2:
[71:52] Wow, you're on fire today.

Speaker 3:
[71:53] I want that kind of intensity from Jim.

Speaker 2:
[71:56] I agree.

Speaker 3:
[71:57] Yeah, you can do it.

Speaker 14:
[71:58] That's taken from my 401K.

Speaker 3:
[72:00] Exactly. You got 40 days to recover this money and get the IRS and this employer off your back.

Speaker 2:
[72:08] Thanks, Jim. Appreciate the call. Let's go to Paige in Kansas City. Paige, how can we help today?

Speaker 5:
[72:14] Hi, so me and my fiance just bought a house last year and we both have car payments and his student debt was handed off to a collection agency. So we have a couple of different loans that we're trying to pay off. And I know in the Baby Steps it says that pay off your smallest loan first. But our smallest loan doesn't have an interest rate. So we're trying to figure out what the best route of action is to what loan to pay off first.

Speaker 2:
[72:49] Why don't you lay those out for us, smallest to largest?

Speaker 5:
[72:52] So we live in a, oh, you said smallest. So our smallest is the student loan. It's $7,034.59. So $162 a month with 0% interest. My fiance's car is $9,645 left on the loan. It's a $400 a month payment. And it's at a 17% interest rate. That's the one that I would like to pay off. And then my car is $28,000 left with a $600 a month payment and a 4.66% interest. And our house is $50,000 left with a $630 around a month. We pay bi-weekly. So sometimes we pay three times a month. It's at a 10.75% interest.

Speaker 3:
[73:41] What do you mean by house?

Speaker 5:
[73:44] So we live in a trailer house, but we also have lot rent because we rent the land that our house is on, but we own our actual house.

Speaker 3:
[73:52] Okay. Because this trailer is going down in value. So it's more like a vehicle. It's not going to appreciate like a traditional home. So here's the truth. Interest rates are not your problem. It's financial behavior that's the problem. And so that's why the debt snowball works. Because if we were trying to attack interest rates and doing math here, we wouldn't have gone into all this debt. So how much do you actually make per year?

Speaker 5:
[74:17] My fiance, it's a little bit hard to determine right now because I just switched jobs. I'm a mail tech now, so I'm making 18 an hour flat rate with 40 hours guaranteed a week.

Speaker 3:
[74:28] Okay, so you're making about 38 grand and you have a $28,000 car.

Speaker 12:
[74:34] But I also make a lot in tips.

Speaker 5:
[74:36] I average between 10 to 20 per client and I have about five, seven clients today.

Speaker 3:
[74:42] Okay, so you're making closer to 50 or 60, is that what you're telling me?

Speaker 4:
[74:46] Yeah, around.

Speaker 3:
[74:47] This car is still too much of your world. If you sold this car, it would really alleviate things. And the second thing is, are you guys combining finances? Are you just paying off your debts and he's paying off his? Are you guys all pooling money together?

Speaker 5:
[75:00] So we're trying to, we haven't done it yet, but we need to combine our bank accounts and we're doing 50-50 and my car I pay and his car and his student debt he pays.

Speaker 3:
[75:10] This is a real problem. You guys shouldn't be combining finances until you're married because you're creating a real mess. Okay. What if something happened? He leaves and you just paid off his car debt while you still have a bunch of...

Speaker 5:
[75:23] Well, I'm not paying on his car and he's not paying on mine.

Speaker 3:
[75:26] You guys need to focus on your own debts right now until you're married and then combine finances and it will get a whole lot easier and less messier at that point. But you gotta start owning up and stop looking at interest rates and start looking in the mirror.

Speaker 2:
[76:22] Buying or selling your home is a big deal, you know that. And with all the clickbait stuff out there and the conflicting data, it's hard to know what's really happening. We're here to make the latest trends easy to understand. Median home prices went up a little to $403,000 last month. Mortgage rates also dipped to 5.43%, excuse me, down from 6.16 we saw last February, and that gave buyers some breathing room. But you know this, rates can be unpredictable. So if you want to learn more about housing market trends and get some free tools to help you buy or sell with confidence, go to ramsysolutions.com.com. That's ramsysolutions.com. Or you can click the link in the show notes. Let's stay right here in Nashville where Catherine joins us. Catherine, how can we help today?

Speaker 4:
[77:09] Hi.

Speaker 5:
[77:11] Thanks for taking my call. So about a year ago, my husband and I decided to put some money, well, to put some bets into Freedom Debt Relief, which is a, I'm sure you know, a debt consolidation. I know that you guys do not...

Speaker 3:
[77:39] Recommend?

Speaker 5:
[77:40] Recommend, thank you. I'm a little bit nervous.

Speaker 4:
[77:45] That you guys don't recommend those. But it was an emotional thing.

Speaker 5:
[77:50] My husband had surgery and the debt was just racking up. And Freedom Debt Relief, the salesperson, being the salesperson he is, like I actually said, you know, I know this isn't Dave Ramsey recommended. And he was like, oh, no, Dave Ramsey actually does recommend us.

Speaker 4:
[78:07] And I was like, I didn't say anything, but I knew that he didn't.

Speaker 5:
[78:12] But my question is...

Speaker 3:
[78:13] You should have said, oh, he does? I'd love to see that clip or that article where he recommends that.

Speaker 5:
[78:19] Oh, yeah, I should have.

Speaker 3:
[78:21] Well, there won't be a next time, so I can't say use it next time. But okay, so you signed up?

Speaker 11:
[78:28] Yes, we did about a year ago.

Speaker 5:
[78:30] And what my question is, we're doing a much better financial position now. My husband got a new job, and we're just in a better financial position. And I want to start doing that snowball. And first get the $1,000 and all the Baby Steps. But I'm wondering, should I take out what hasn't been paid off already in the freedom debt relief?

Speaker 12:
[79:01] Yes.

Speaker 5:
[79:03] Yes.

Speaker 3:
[79:04] Get out of the process, because you can do what they're doing on your own without the fees and the hassle. And without tanking your credit, which they've already done, that part's-

Speaker 5:
[79:13] Yes.

Speaker 3:
[79:14] We can't undo that.

Speaker 14:
[79:14] Yes.

Speaker 5:
[79:14] My credit's tanked.

Speaker 3:
[79:15] Yeah, but all they're doing is negotiating with your creditors after you default and coming up with a lump sum. You do that yourself. That's right. If you couldn't pay, you just wouldn't pay. And then it goes to collections and then you say, hey, would you take four grand for my 10 grand debt, lump sum, if it's paid, market paid in full and writing? Great. Done.

Speaker 5:
[79:36] Okay. And should I because they have because the percentage that they were taking the freedom debt release, they basically I was saving like I did the math. I was basically saving like a hundred or $200, which is not great. The ones that they are currently paying now on, should I leave those in there? There because there are two that have that they are currently paying on that that they negotiated.

Speaker 3:
[80:09] How many more payments are there?

Speaker 5:
[80:12] One is it's a total of 36 and I think I've paid four to six. I'd have to look on the app and the other one it has like 24 and I think I've paid like four or five.

Speaker 3:
[80:26] Okay. I would read the contract to see what you can and can't do and read the cancellation clause to figure out what you have to do to get out. But I would just tell them I want to get completely out of this and you might need to do a written notice. It's like a planet fitness. They get you in real easy, but to get out, it's an act of Congress. So I would definitely get out because you can do this on your own. It's going to end up being cheaper for you in the long run, even if they ding you with some fees on the way out. But these programs, they over promise, they under deliver while ruining your financial life. But when you're scared and overwhelmed, their Instagram ad magically pops up to save you. So I'm sorry you fell for it, but I'm glad you're getting out.

Speaker 4:
[81:06] Oh, yeah, no, I'm definitely getting out.

Speaker 5:
[81:09] And thank you for taking my call. I hope nobody else falls for them.

Speaker 2:
[81:15] There's the warning from Catherine. We love that.

Speaker 3:
[81:18] And it's a good reminder, Ken, just to talk about what these companies do. So the way these companies work, if you see debt relief, debt settlement, anything that promises debt freedom without you actually doing the work, here's what they do. They tell you, hey, stop paying all of your creditors. Instead, send us those payments. What ends up happening is you default on the debts, it takes your credit score, and then they try to negotiate a lump sum settlement, hopefully. They can't guarantee that. Sometimes it doesn't happen. And the truth is you can do all that yourself without all of their crazy fees and sales tactics. And it's what you should do. And try to stay current on your payments if you can, because tanking your credit is not going to help you at all financially.

Speaker 2:
[82:00] Yeah, I agree.

Speaker 3:
[82:00] Avoid.

Speaker 2:
[82:01] Rachel is up next in Redding, California. Rachel, how can we help?

Speaker 5:
[82:06] Hi there. Can you hear me okay?

Speaker 2:
[82:07] Yes, loud and clear.

Speaker 11:
[82:09] Okay, good.

Speaker 5:
[82:11] My husband and I live up in rural California, Northern California, and he has a blue collar job, and we have four kids, eight and under, and we're just coming up on our 10-year anniversary. We are on Baby Step four, well, I guess five.

Speaker 11:
[82:31] We haven't saved for our kids' college yet, but we're thinking about it. We're just thinking about doing an anniversary trip, and I wanted your guys' feedback on, I guess I'm feeling guilty. I'm a stay-at-home mom, so I don't make a lot. I've been door-dashing a little bit, but I kind of wanted to see what you guys thought about an anniversary trip. Like, I feel guilty for what I'm thinking about saving.

Speaker 3:
[82:56] What do you think about spending?

Speaker 5:
[82:59] Sorry?

Speaker 3:
[83:00] What's the number? How much do you want to spend on this trip?

Speaker 11:
[83:04] We were thinking around $5,000 to $6,000.

Speaker 3:
[83:07] Okay. How long is this trip? Is it like a week or two?

Speaker 11:
[83:12] Yeah, we were thinking maybe 10 days to 2 weeks.

Speaker 3:
[83:16] Okay.

Speaker 2:
[83:16] Well, I can tell you around now, 10 days to 2 weeks at $5,000 to $6,000 is not a, you know...

Speaker 3:
[83:22] That's a deal.

Speaker 2:
[83:24] You're not going luxury, you know? You're being smart about it. You're making the most of that money, am I right?

Speaker 11:
[83:32] Yeah, yeah, we would be definitely staying at really cheap places and doing...

Speaker 3:
[83:35] You don't need to stay at a motel 6. Let's make this a trip to remember and not in the wrong ways.

Speaker 2:
[83:41] Well, yeah, let's get to that next, but let's at least take off the guilt. There's no guilt for you guys saving up $5,000 to $6,000 to celebrate your 10th anniversary. That's fantastic.

Speaker 3:
[83:51] And there's no guilt in you being a stay-at-home mom and feeling like, well, because I don't contribute as much, I feel like I don't... You deserve it as much as anybody.

Speaker 2:
[84:00] How long... Have you already saved up that money? Or are you in the process of it?

Speaker 4:
[84:04] We just... This is just a plan we've had in the last couple of weeks. So we're just thinking about saving and...

Speaker 2:
[84:11] Is that going to stress you guys financially? In other words, are you going to have to be really, really tight to be able to save that?

Speaker 4:
[84:19] Yes.

Speaker 11:
[84:21] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[84:21] I don't have a problem with that either.

Speaker 3:
[84:22] What does your husband make?

Speaker 11:
[84:25] He makes about $4,500 a month.

Speaker 4:
[84:30] And with my DoorDash, I've been making around $1,000 a month.

Speaker 11:
[84:32] Great.

Speaker 3:
[84:33] So when do you want to book the trip? When do you actually have to pay for it?

Speaker 5:
[84:38] Fall sometime.

Speaker 3:
[84:40] Okay. So are you willing to continue the DoorDash and use part of his income to save up this $5,000 over the next five months?

Speaker 4:
[84:46] Yeah. Yeah. I think so. Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[84:48] I mean, you got the number. If it's just your DoorDash money every month, sometime in the fall, you got some flexibility, you can cash flow this anniversary trip just from your work, your part-time work. You shouldn't feel guilty, you should feel proud of yourself for that.

Speaker 3:
[85:03] Are you setting this money aside in a separate savings account?

Speaker 4:
[85:08] Yeah. That would be the plan, yeah.

Speaker 3:
[85:09] Good. That helps to earmark it. Because if you just have it in checking or you have it in your emergency fund, it feels like you're doing something bad when you take that out to use it for a vacation. So instead, earmark it, 10-year anniversary, vacation. And then when you put the money in, you know exactly what it's for. And then when it comes time to book the trip or when you have the money, pull the trigger.

Speaker 2:
[85:30] I wonder if you've got $1,000 to $1,500 worth of stuff around the house you could sell too. True.

Speaker 3:
[85:37] I like that plan.

Speaker 2:
[85:38] I love that plan. You know why? We just add a little extra money to this anniversary trip and we didn't have to work as hard. We got rid of some crap we didn't need anyway.

Speaker 3:
[85:46] And then do your research. Splurge where it's worth it. Cut back where you're like, we don't care about this over here. And you can work with a $5,000 budget easily.

Speaker 2:
[86:17] Welcome back to The Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio. I'm Ken Coleman, George Kamel is alongside. And we're gonna go to Minneapolis, where Ella is. Ella, how can we help you?

Speaker 11:
[86:30] Hey guys, thank you so much for taking my call. This is awesome. Anyway, I have a question. So I'm following the Baby Steps. Unfortunately, I'm not able to work right now. I'm on a medical leave. I have to have surgery this next Wednesday. And I need to come up with $4,000 before I have my surgery. And if I was able to work, I could get. But right now, I'm just kind of at a loss. I have, I've been marking things up. I'm gonna have a garage sale and try to sell everything that I possibly can. But before Wednesday, I'm kind of, kind of stuck.

Speaker 3:
[87:13] Is it due up front?

Speaker 11:
[87:16] Yeah, they said that it's to meet my deductible, my out-of-pocket deductible. And then, and so I've been on the phone and trying to work with them to see if, you know, I can get on a payment plan or anything. And they're like, well, that would be like the last option. I'm like, well, that might be your only option because I don't have it.

Speaker 3:
[87:41] Is this at a hospital?

Speaker 11:
[87:43] Yes, it is.

Speaker 2:
[87:44] Is your doctor aware of this?

Speaker 11:
[87:47] Yes, he is.

Speaker 2:
[87:48] And what did he say about going forward on this or rescheduling or how serious is a reschedule? What's going on? Give us the full picture.

Speaker 11:
[87:58] Okay. So, unfortunately, this is my fourth surgery in three years, but hey, I'm a trooper. It's okay. Like I get through it.

Speaker 2:
[88:09] So sorry.

Speaker 11:
[88:10] I go to work. It's okay. Thank you. I appreciate it though. And anyway, oh, sorry. I talked to my doctor about it, and he told me, he was like, if anything, he's like, we're going to do this surgery. You need to have it.

Speaker 2:
[88:28] Right.

Speaker 11:
[88:29] And he's like, just telling me, made a payment arrangement, we're still going through it, and then they can figure it out. And I'm like, okay. Good.

Speaker 2:
[88:37] I think that's what you have to hold. That's our sleep okay at night answer. And then you do everything you can.

Speaker 3:
[88:46] Have you called the hospital billing department?

Speaker 11:
[88:49] I have. Oh my gosh, we're like best friends right now.

Speaker 3:
[88:52] Oh, good. What do they say about financial assistance, charity care, that kind of stuff?

Speaker 11:
[88:57] I have submitted all of my pay stubs and everything to them. They're going to try to review it to see if I meet the qualifications, but I already make too much money.

Speaker 3:
[89:13] And what's your next paycheck and when's it coming?

Speaker 11:
[89:19] That's the thing too. I'm not sure. Today was the last paycheck that I'm getting until hopefully my Minnesota paid leave comes into place. And it was only like 400 bucks because I've been on leave for the past two weeks.

Speaker 3:
[89:36] Was it unpaid?

Speaker 11:
[89:36] So, yeah, so I was only able to work two days, this last pay period, otherwise, yeah, it's really frustrating. And like I said, I do follow the Baby Steps. And unfortunately, like I'm in step two, but I'm crossing it.

Speaker 3:
[89:56] How much more debt do you have?

Speaker 11:
[89:57] I paid off, I have 18,000 left and I've paid off 60.

Speaker 3:
[90:01] Way to go. What's left in the 18?

Speaker 11:
[90:03] I paid off, so what's left in the 18 is some leftover surgery debt. I have two small credit cards and two small personal loans. And guys, I'm telling you, I have brought my budget down. I know where all of my money goes, thanks to you guys.

Speaker 3:
[90:28] Good.

Speaker 11:
[90:28] And I had my $1,000 and I can live very simply. It's just my body hates me.

Speaker 2:
[90:36] Oh, bless your heart.

Speaker 3:
[90:37] But you have $1,000 to your name.

Speaker 11:
[90:41] Nope, because I had to use that to pay my rent and everything. And then on top of that, I have to move because the house that I'm renting in, I just found out that it's in foreclosure.

Speaker 3:
[90:57] Oh, my goodness.

Speaker 11:
[90:57] My landlord hasn't been... Yeah, so...

Speaker 3:
[91:00] It's like a country song.

Speaker 11:
[91:02] I know, it is.

Speaker 3:
[91:03] I'm so sorry.

Speaker 11:
[91:03] It's really sad. I'm more of a punk rocker, so I'm just like, oh, come on.

Speaker 2:
[91:10] Well, you know, there's always... You know what you need to do? You need to find one of those punk rock songs that you really love that's kind of got like the tough times lyrics, but there's some bright side on it, and that becomes your soundtrack, you know?

Speaker 11:
[91:23] Oh, it is. Social distortion, reach for the sky.

Speaker 2:
[91:27] There it is. Social distortion, reach for the sky. And you know what? Like, I'm not being, you know, like kumbaya here, but that's your soundtrack. You've been through a lot. Better days are ahead, right?

Speaker 12:
[91:39] Absolutely.

Speaker 2:
[91:40] You're gonna get through this. Don't... You follow the advice of your doctor, so let's take that stress off the table and get yourself healthy and then get back to work and keep walking the Baby Steps out. And I'm telling you, better days are ahead.

Speaker 12:
[91:57] Thank you.

Speaker 3:
[91:58] And then document everything like a mad woman. I mean, there should be an income-based discount if you're on medical leave. You should qualify for a significant reduction on this thing or a full write-off. And on top of that, bring proof of income loss. Say, hey, listen, I made $400. Here's what I should have made. And this is going to remain this way until I'm fully healed. And I think if this person is your best friend, if I'm your best friend at the office, I'm going to do everything I can to go, hey, your bill suddenly disappeared. Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[92:26] Oh, I like that. Oh, I see what you're saying. Yeah, fingers crossed.

Speaker 3:
[92:29] Yeah, I mean, they can pull some strings over there. A human being has to deny or approve these things at some point.

Speaker 2:
[92:35] It's one little keystroke. I see what you're doing with George.

Speaker 3:
[92:39] Yeah, it's not illegal.

Speaker 2:
[92:41] George with a little espionage.

Speaker 3:
[92:43] This is why these people exist.

Speaker 11:
[92:44] I love it.

Speaker 3:
[92:45] And so just you need to utilize, you need to know this stuff better than they do. To where you go, no, I actually read the fine print. And here's what it says. You need to become an expert in healthcare because there's a lot of incompetent people in healthcare.

Speaker 11:
[92:57] Oh, I know that. I work in healthcare.

Speaker 2:
[93:00] Perfect.

Speaker 3:
[93:02] So become the expert on your situation. And when you have all of the options, all of the information, you can win this thing. And we are rooting for you to get through the surgery. To heal up, to get rid of these debts, get that emergency fund. You have a bigger why than most people.

Speaker 2:
[93:18] That's right. What is the prognosis on the other side of the surgery, do you know?

Speaker 11:
[93:24] Not 100% sure yet.

Speaker 2:
[93:30] Do you have a good sense of confidence that you're going to be able to get back to work relatively soon? Or is that completely up in the air as well?

Speaker 11:
[93:38] Oh, I told them, I go, I'm going back to work on May 1st. I'm like, I don't care.

Speaker 2:
[93:43] No stopping you.

Speaker 11:
[93:44] I'm like, oh, there isn't. I work two jobs, I have tons of side hustles, and I'm just like, no.

Speaker 2:
[93:52] Oh, Ella, listen, you know what? I love the advice George gave you.

Speaker 3:
[93:56] And I hope they don't charge you rent this month if they're under foreclosure. I feel like that should give you a little freebie.

Speaker 2:
[94:01] What's the story there?

Speaker 11:
[94:03] I feel like I'm not even going to pay them, and I'm just going to try to save and just move and put my stuff in storage. And if I have to couch surf for a little while, Good for you.

Speaker 2:
[94:15] Good for you.

Speaker 3:
[94:15] They're the ones about to get sued and going through bankruptcy. So I think they're going to have their hands full. Yeah, they wouldn't be worried about that.

Speaker 2:
[94:21] Bigger fish to fry than you. And Ella, you inspired me just now. I want to tell you something. Like, I love your attitude, given everything you're dealing with right now. You're unstoppable. I love that you said, I know I am. And you're going to get back going. And boy, are we cheering you on. We're in Club Ella.

Speaker 10:
[95:05] When I talk to people on The Ramsey Show, 90% of the problems I hear come down to one thing, not having a plan. They're not living on a budget. They have no idea where their money's going. Money is just happening to them instead of them happening to their money. And guys, that is so normal, but it doesn't have to be normal for you. And that's why I want you to go download our Every Dollar Budget app. Every Dollar not only helps you tell your money where to go with a budget, it also builds a plan to free up extra money so you can pay debt off faster and start building wealth. And the best part, your plan is completely personalized to your life. It's the same advice that you would get if you called the show. And it's right in your pocket. So don't keep living normal. Go download the Every Dollar app, answer a few questions and get your plan today.

Speaker 2:
[96:14] Hey, George, have you heard about Ask Ramsey?

Speaker 3:
[96:17] Heard about it. I use it daily.

Speaker 2:
[96:19] Do you really?

Speaker 3:
[96:19] I ask Ramsey, I talk to it, because nobody wants to talk to me, Ken. So I go to Ask Ramsey, and it's very conversational.

Speaker 2:
[96:25] Yes, you do.

Speaker 3:
[96:25] It wants to talk nerdy, like I like to talk.

Speaker 1:
[96:28] What is Ask Ramsey?

Speaker 2:
[96:29] Some of you are wondering, it is the AI tool that's built and trained on Proven Ramsey principles. And we're gonna break down the most asked questions from this week. We had some questions around budgeting, college funds, investing, but the most asked question, George, was around paying off the mortgage. The main question is, should I prioritize paying off my mortgage or investing for more long-term growth? So what do you think Ask Ramsey said, George?

Speaker 3:
[96:56] Well, I hope it said this. First, you got to be investing 15% of your gross household income into retirement. Anything beyond that is a Baby Step 6 item. So you can throw that money at the mortgage. But it's not a this or that. It's a yes and. Yes, you should be investing. Yes, you should pay off the mortgage. You don't need to do one or the other. But you should not stop retirement investing to rush the mortgage. That's the truth. The paid for house gives you peace and margin. Once the house is paid off, then you can start investing even more than that 15% and increase it to your heart's delight for your wealth goals. So Ask Ramsey can help you determine how much extra to throw at your mortgage each month, what your payoff date would be. It'll help you with all the nerdy stuff. Do the calculations for you. So go ask any of your financial questions today at ramseysolutions.com or just click the link in the description if you're listening on podcast or YouTube.

Speaker 2:
[97:46] Nice. Let's go to Cassandra now in our backyard here, Nashville, Tennessee. Cassandra, how can we help?

Speaker 5:
[97:53] Hi, thank you for taking my call.

Speaker 2:
[97:55] You bet.

Speaker 13:
[97:57] What's going on?

Speaker 5:
[97:59] Well, I have $9,000 in debt for my car and it's very manageable and it's in my monthly budget to take care of that. But I have more than enough money to pay it off right now if I wanted to. My question is, if I get rid of that payment and it affects my credit score, I'm looking to put a down payment on the home in the future. Will someone lend me that money for a home if my credit mix isn't good, if I don't have multiple lines of credit?

Speaker 3:
[98:38] Got it. What other accounts do you have open right now as far as debt?

Speaker 5:
[98:44] I have a secured credit card and I kind of use it as my budget for gas. I never spend more than 30% on it.

Speaker 3:
[98:51] Okay. So the car is the only debt?

Speaker 5:
[98:54] Yes.

Speaker 3:
[98:54] How much do you have in savings?

Speaker 5:
[98:57] $22,500.

Speaker 3:
[98:59] That's all the money to your name?

Speaker 5:
[99:04] And I also have a retirement account that counts.

Speaker 3:
[99:07] Okay. But as far as liquid money, $22,500. And if you paid off the car loan, where does that leave you with?

Speaker 5:
[99:17] $9,000 less than that.

Speaker 11:
[99:18] So...

Speaker 3:
[99:19] Okay. We're talking like $13,000 or so is what you'll have left.

Speaker 5:
[99:23] Yes.

Speaker 3:
[99:24] Well, the good news is you're not going to have to worry about purchasing a home anytime soon because you're going to have to still save up an emergency fund, then save up the down payment. So this is a far away goal, right?

Speaker 4:
[99:35] Yes, it is.

Speaker 3:
[99:37] Okay. And your credit score is not going to tank once you pay off your car. It might go down temporarily, but it's not going to go down to where you're not going to get a great rate on a mortgage.

Speaker 4:
[99:48] Okay.

Speaker 3:
[99:48] So I would not worry about that. Now, if you stop making payments or miss payments, those things will negatively affect your credit score and it'll stay like that for a much longer period of time. But just paying off a debt is not going to go away. You're going to go on from a 700 to a 650. Way to go, Cassandra. It's a good thing to pay off your debt. So you're basically saying, should I stay in debt on purpose so I can qualify for more debt at that point? Yes. And so truthfully, even if you cut up your credit card, and this is something I did, my credit score eventually disappeared. I became credit. My credit score was indeterminable. And then I went through a process called manual underwriting. I submitted just a few more documents. A real human being looks at the documents and says, yep, we can give a loan. It was that simple. So that's just to give you, put you at ease that even if your credit score disappeared off the face of the earth, you still could qualify for a home loan. If you have a good down payment, you'll have no debt. So you'll be a very strong candidate and your income is strong. All of those are much bigger factors than just a credit score.

Speaker 5:
[100:49] Okay. Yes, sir. Thank you.

Speaker 2:
[100:51] Yeah, thanks for the question. Yeah, really good. Cameron is up in Phoenix, Arizona. Cameron, how can we help today?

Speaker 12:
[100:57] Hi. So I'm currently a student physical therapist about to get licensed in around late October. My biggest thing is I'm about $120,000 in debt by the time I get licensed and I'm actually making $80,000 to $85,000 out of school. And I have $10,000 in my savings and I was just curious, you know, I have my $1,000, of course, that is my base foundation of savings. But what else do I just throw everything else towards the snowball method and kind of what's the way to go about things?

Speaker 3:
[101:34] When is your last payment for education?

Speaker 12:
[101:39] Oh, what was that?

Speaker 3:
[101:40] When is your last payment due for education? Are you already there?

Speaker 12:
[101:45] No, no. And so it will technically be, I believe, September of this year.

Speaker 3:
[101:52] Because my goal will be to avoid going into any more debt before graduation. And so that's kind of, we're trying to just stop the bleeding at this point. And so I would hang on to that money to use it for the following semester for tuition, textbooks, etc. So limit the damage. And then once you graduate and you have your income, now let's start using the Baby Steps, the debt snowball method to start attacking these student loans from smallest to largest. Are they in separate loans, I imagine?

Speaker 12:
[102:20] Yes. Yeah, all separate loans. Some federal, some subsidized and subsidized stuff, yeah.

Speaker 3:
[102:24] Awesome. Leave it that way. Don't do any kind of debt consolidation, lumping it into one giant loan. It's going to be so much easier to pay it off when you can attack the little one with a vengeance, free up that payment, apply to the next one. That's the debt snowball. And I have good faith and confidence that you'll be able to pay off the 120K. Now, make an 80, it's going to take a little while, but hopefully you can get your income up, maybe work overtime and really go hard at this thing for two or three years and knock it out fast. Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[102:51] And that is an absolute huge reason why you don't want to add any more to this. Because coming out of this thing, this is what I can't stand. And this is why I don't like the student loan program. For so many people, they come out and they're excited. They've got the great job. And then this is a mountain, and they have to climb. And they can, and we've seen, and we've helped a lot of people do it. But it's just...

Speaker 3:
[103:12] Well, the scary part is, Ken, the financial aid. When I walked in the financial aid office, and you get the package from FAFSA, you're like, wow, what a gift. They're giving me four federally subsidized loans. I thought, that's basically free money. And it's basically just a slightly better way of getting punched in the face. There we go.

Speaker 2:
[103:31] It's true.

Speaker 3:
[103:32] It'll heal a little faster.

Speaker 2:
[103:34] Let's go to Jacob real quick here in Nashville. Jacob, how can we help?

Speaker 13:
[103:38] Hey, I'm trying to determine, make sure I'm doing all the right things, to be able to retire as early as 50, very comfortably.

Speaker 3:
[103:49] How old are you now?

Speaker 13:
[103:50] I'm 29 right now.

Speaker 3:
[103:52] Okay. We got a little ways to go.

Speaker 2:
[103:54] How much you got saved for retirement?

Speaker 13:
[103:57] So I was fortunate enough that my father, my grandparents, my great-grandparents put together a uniform transfer to a minor account when I was very young. I'm not entirely sure what the beginning balance was. I want to say it was close to $50,000.

Speaker 2:
[104:14] What is it now?

Speaker 13:
[104:16] It is now up to $490,000.

Speaker 3:
[104:19] Whoa!

Speaker 13:
[104:20] All right. And about $75,000 of that is my IRA in a Vanguard account.

Speaker 3:
[104:28] So $490 total is your sort of nest egg you've built so far.

Speaker 13:
[104:33] Yeah. Well, that's just associated with Vanguard. So I also have about $38,000 in a 401K, about $12,000 in a 403.

Speaker 3:
[104:43] So what's the total nest egg? Can we call it $550? Or just crush for time, so I'm trying to get right to it.

Speaker 13:
[104:48] Yeah, sure.

Speaker 3:
[104:49] $550, how much will you contribute monthly going forward for the next 21 years?

Speaker 13:
[104:54] Sure. So my only contribution is maxing out the IRA.

Speaker 3:
[105:01] So about $600 something bucks a month. Well, I'll tell you this, at $50 you'll likely have about $5 million. Now that's without accounting for inflation and buying power, but $5 million, you tell me, can you live off $5 million at $50 for the rest of your life? I think so. I think it will be work optional. And my guess is you actually go do something that really matters to you.

Speaker 2:
[105:24] If he has George Kamel's budget, he'll be living like a king.

Speaker 3:
[105:27] Living large.

Speaker 1:
[106:00] Listen up folks, if you've got a complicated tax situation and you're putting off filing your return, it's time to talk with a Ramsey Trusted Tax Pro. Not next week, not April 15th, right freaking now. Ramsey Trusted Tax Pros know the tax code front to back so they can do the heavy lifting to help you file on time and explain things to you with the heart of a teacher. But they can only do that if you get on their schedule before they book up. Go to ramseysolutions.com/taxpro to find a full time tax advisor who serves your area with excellence. That's ramseysolutions.com/taxpro.

Speaker 2:
[106:57] The right insurance should act as a shield around you and your loved ones and your wallet. Our free insurance coverage checkup helps you figure out if you have the right coverage by giving you a personalized action plan. Go to ramsysolutions.com/checkup. That's ramsysolutions.com/checkup, and you can do a coverage checkup. And boy, does George love a coverage checkup.

Speaker 3:
[107:19] I like playing defense.

Speaker 2:
[107:20] I'm telling you.

Speaker 3:
[107:21] Especially with your wealth.

Speaker 2:
[107:22] I get it. Chris is up in Los Angeles, California. Chris, how can we help today?

Speaker 13:
[107:28] Hey, guys. Thank you guys so much for taking my call. Such an honor.

Speaker 2:
[107:31] Well, we're honored to talk to you. What's going on?

Speaker 13:
[107:34] Hey, so real quick, I'm 28 years old, and I'm currently on Baby Step 2. I have $16,000 in credit card debt left, and I just got an opportunity for my parents to buy one of their properties that they have for about 20 years now, with two tenants that are in right now. And the house is valued at about $700,000, but they're going to be selling it to me for $350,000 for what they bought it for years ago. I'm not too sure what I should do. I don't know if I should purchase the house or just keep going, trying to clear my debt, or I'm kind of lost, to be honest with you.

Speaker 3:
[108:24] Do you want the fun answer or the real answer?

Speaker 13:
[108:28] The real answer to be honest with you.

Speaker 3:
[108:31] Okay, the real answer is you have no business taking on that mortgage right now, and being an investment property guru. I mean, for a lot of reasons, I don't, whenever I hear the word I have an opportunity, and it involves going to a bunch of debt, when you already have a bunch of debt, it tells me it's not an opportunity. It's actually a burden disguised as an opportunity. So that's my fear, is you take on this, it's such a good deal, oh my gosh. I mean, why not just inherit it from them later on down the road?

Speaker 13:
[108:59] Exactly. Yeah, that's what I kind of figured too.

Speaker 3:
[109:02] Why are they trying to get out if this is such a great opportunity?

Speaker 13:
[109:06] Yeah, and you're right. You're right, George. I'm not too sure why, but it makes sense. It makes sense.

Speaker 2:
[109:13] And by the way, and George is right, the financial is a no-go. But you know what else is on the other side of this too? Besides being a bad financial decision, you're going to end up resenting them. Because once you start feeling the stress of all this, you know, they talked me into this, and now it's going to affect your relationship with your parents. So this is a no-go financially and relationally.

Speaker 13:
[109:33] Absolutely. No, definitely. I really appreciate it. Yeah, thanks for calling. I've heard it all. I mean, people have already been telling me, I don't know if you don't take it on, it's going to be a stupid decision.

Speaker 3:
[109:45] Well, the question is, you gotta reframe it. The question is not, is this a good deal? The question is, can I actually handle this right now without it crushing me? And a good deal at the wrong time is a bad deal. And so I would just say, you know what? I would have loved to, but I've got some financial goals right now. I'm not in a place to be buying investment property.

Speaker 5:
[110:06] Exactly.

Speaker 3:
[110:07] But I love you guys. Good luck with the sale.

Speaker 5:
[110:09] Bye-bye, mama.

Speaker 2:
[110:11] Yeah. Thank you, Chris. Your instincts are right. Thanks for the call. Bridget is up next in Anchorage, Alaska. Bridget, how can we help?

Speaker 11:
[110:19] Hi. So my husband and I are in Baby Step 4, but we're kind of in a unique situation. So I have a normal nine to five corporate job and my husband owns his own fishing business that's seasonal. We're to the point that we can invest 15% of our income while I'm working, but we're also about to have our second child and so I'm hoping I can quit my job and be a stay-at-home mom. But if we did that, we wouldn't be able to afford to invest 15% of our income. So what should we do?

Speaker 12:
[110:53] Like should I continue working?

Speaker 11:
[110:54] Because with his schedule, he's gone all summer for five to six months of the year. So childcare gets really complicated and then he's our childcare in the winter. So we're kind of at a loss as to how much to move forward. So I make about $75,000.

Speaker 3:
[111:11] And what is he making from this business per year on average?

Speaker 4:
[111:14] So it varies.

Speaker 11:
[111:16] He's about five years into it and it has slowly grown. So I think his highest year was he made over $100,000 just out of his business. But then this last year, it was closer to like $45,000, $50,000. So he has some other income, some other like side jobs and things that he does. But those are, it's also seasonal.

Speaker 3:
[111:39] Well, the math of the situation is you can't afford to stay home if it means you can't build well for the future. And we have variable income in the business, which adds a whole other layer of stress to your family. So I want Ken to speak into how he can turn this thing from a variable part-time deal into more stable full-time income.

Speaker 2:
[111:59] Yeah. I mean, well, I wish I had him on the phone. How well do you know about his business?

Speaker 11:
[112:04] Oh, I know lots. Okay.

Speaker 2:
[112:05] Well, what do you think is the opportunity? Do you think that, how would you describe it? In what stage? Is it infant stage? Are we toddler stage? Are we teenage? Like, just as it's growth?

Speaker 11:
[112:17] So the issue is, it's seasonal. So he's a hunting and fishing guide, right? So there's only that certain season that he can be doing that, especially in Alaska. And so, he's kind of limited time-wise. So he can sort, like, if he gets more guides and things like that, he could potentially be selling more trips, which he's working on. And so, like, this year, he's going to be making a lot more, which is great. And, like, we already have, for our emergency fund, we did a full year. Because of his variable income, we wanted to make sure that we have enough set-aside that we would be very comfortable. So, like, I guess potentially he could work in more in the wintertime and just kind of take on some other jobs.

Speaker 2:
[113:03] Has to.

Speaker 3:
[113:04] I'm thinking what businesses thrive in Alaska in the wintertime that are adjacent to what he's doing now.

Speaker 2:
[113:09] That's right.

Speaker 3:
[113:10] That would be my home.

Speaker 2:
[113:11] That would be ideal. But, the reason I ask that is, at Infancy Stage, is that he's the only guy right now. The business is all completely on his shoulders. He's the only guide. Correct?

Speaker 4:
[113:23] So, he has a couple of others.

Speaker 11:
[113:25] It depends on how big the trips are. But, he doesn't have anybody else that's full time with him. So, he hires a few different contractors for the summer.

Speaker 2:
[113:32] That's fine, because it's seasonal. So, that's what I was getting at. Because that's the only way to expand in a seasonal business, right?

Speaker 11:
[113:39] Exactly.

Speaker 2:
[113:40] He's got to reproduce himself. And so, I'm guessing he's close to teenage age, right? He's not an infant. He's already moved on to hire other people. So, that's good. So, that lets me know where our opportunity for growth is. And it's more trips, more guides. So, he's got to work on that. And that takes a little bit of time to grow that. So, I think what's enormous is, like what George said, is what's something he can do that's in that space? And I'm using the word space very generally here, but it's in that old hunting, fishing world.

Speaker 3:
[114:12] Recreational.

Speaker 2:
[114:13] Yeah, all just hunting and fishing and all that. He's in that space and he can make good money. And it kind of just dovetails in some way, creates relationships in some way, or they're willing to go, we know we got you from this time, this time, and then when we get to the summertime, you're off and doing your thing. You just got to increase your income. He just cannot afford to just be seasonal right now. You guys can't. You need more money.

Speaker 3:
[114:38] So, it's not a no. I would just make it a not now. And if we can prove that for two years in a row, this business has profited him, he took home over $100,000, boom, he's now replaced the household income in a bad year.

Speaker 2:
[114:51] That's right.

Speaker 3:
[114:52] And that tells me we're going to be just fine. If you never work again, he can sustain this thing. So that's why I would just want some proof. Because if it's another 45 year and you stay home, that's going to be tight.

Speaker 11:
[115:04] Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 2:
[115:05] One other thought on this, Bridget, to take back to your hubs on this. I think he's got to treat the seasonal business like a bonus. In the corporate world, corporations, they pay bonuses, right? Kind of like a year-end bonus. And I think he's got to treat that seasonal job as, that's my bonus. We're living off of what I'm doing in this other role. And then that's our big lump sum of money. And I think if we can begin to think that way, that's going to pay off for you guys. And then that's going to get you in a position where eventually you can do that. So just a little thought there. But I do think it's important to frame it that way, you know?

Speaker 4:
[115:42] Yeah.

Speaker 6:
[115:43] Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 2:
[115:44] And that's where you get ahead big time. You know what I mean? So we're living off of his regular job, the seasonal gig. Until it's a full time, it can fully fund what it needs to, it is our big bonus job. So thanks for the call. That's really fun. You know, you and I should go on a hunting, fishing trip in Alaska.

Speaker 3:
[116:03] You think I'd make it?

Speaker 2:
[116:05] I think you could make it.

Speaker 3:
[116:06] I don't know that my wife would allow me to. I don't know that she'd think I'd come back alive.

Speaker 2:
[116:10] I think our wives would let us. I think it would be just rich and funny just for social media alone to see you and I attempting to go on some Alaska trip.

Speaker 3:
[116:17] If you just gave me the reel ready to go, I could probably do it. Then help me reel the fish.

Speaker 2:
[116:22] What I think would happen is you and I would be fly fishing and you would accidentally snag my ear.

Speaker 3:
[116:27] That's a real possibility.

Speaker 1:
[116:44] Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on the show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey. Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple and free to use. Go to ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions.com.

Speaker 2:
[117:35] Our scripture of the day comes from Proverbs 19, 23. The fear of the Lord leads to life. Then one rests content, untouched by trouble. Our quote of the day from Scotty Pippen, a Gucci wallet and a Target wallet hold the same amount of money. A $10 million house and a $100,000 house host the same loneliness. A Ford will also drive you as far as a Bentley. All right.

Speaker 3:
[117:57] Thanks, Scotty.

Speaker 2:
[117:58] Scotty, dropping dimes over here, as the kids like to say.

Speaker 3:
[118:01] Do they say that still?

Speaker 2:
[118:03] I don't think anybody says that. I'm getting messages from the booth. I'm getting a bin is saying, no, no one says that.

Speaker 3:
[118:08] Your kids are at home cringing right now going, dad.

Speaker 2:
[118:10] Well, I'm afraid I've said something I don't even tend to say. What is, do we know what dropping dimes is?

Speaker 3:
[118:14] I don't I don't think it's a bad thing.

Speaker 2:
[118:16] I don't think it is.

Speaker 3:
[118:17] Yeah, you're not going to get in trouble.

Speaker 2:
[118:18] OK. Kelly, the producer, has never heard.

Speaker 3:
[118:21] Our resident Gen Z said no.

Speaker 12:
[118:23] It's.

Speaker 2:
[118:25] She's a millennial, George.

Speaker 3:
[118:26] I take it back.

Speaker 2:
[118:27] You're a millennial.

Speaker 3:
[118:28] She just she plays very young and, you know, fun compared to me, who is an old soul curmudgeon.

Speaker 2:
[118:34] Yeah. Yeah. By the way, she does have a great hat on today. The master's hat.

Speaker 3:
[118:38] There we go.

Speaker 2:
[118:38] Fantastic. There she is. Everybody look at that. All you need is a pimento cheese sandwich in your hand. Let's go to Jim in Lansing, Michigan. Jim, how can we help? Hi, Jim.

Speaker 13:
[118:52] There he is. So I just had a quick question as to how to talk to my dad about credit cards in our business. So I started a business with my father about a year ago, and I personally, I don't do debt, I don't do credit cards, I don't do any of that.

Speaker 12:
[119:12] It's all scary. Now, he loves credit cards.

Speaker 13:
[119:15] He doesn't have a lot of debt in his personal life, but he just loves credit cards. He has them all over the place. And I voiced, when he wanted to get one for the business, I voiced my concern then, but I know better than to argue with my father, and we ended up getting a business credit card. And I just figured, you know, I would take initiative to make sure that nothing bad happens. Now, this past month, something bad did happen with that. We tried to pay it off, and the bank marked it as fraudulent. And so then we got late fees and interest on that credit card, and that terrifies me.

Speaker 12:
[119:47] I want to get rid of this stupid thing, but I don't know how to have that discussion.

Speaker 3:
[119:56] Well, this is a generational money fight.

Speaker 14:
[119:59] He's been living this way for so long, you're not going to change his mind as the young whippersnapper.

Speaker 1:
[120:04] I know that.

Speaker 14:
[120:05] Are you guys 50-50 partners?

Speaker 1:
[120:06] Every time that I talk to him, yes. Every time that I talk to him, though, about the credit cards, his excuse is, you know, I've been doing this longer than you've been alive, I've never been charged interest, but now he has been, and I don't...

Speaker 14:
[120:20] Well, what he really said is, I don't respect your opinion in this business.

Speaker 2:
[120:23] That's right. And which means he's not going to accept your opinion.

Speaker 1:
[120:29] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[120:31] So now you got a real problem, don't you?

Speaker 1:
[120:35] Well, yeah. He's a great businessman, so I don't like the idea of that, but I just...

Speaker 2:
[120:41] Well, but are you long-term in this business? Have you already made the decision, or is this just something early on, you're just kind of, I'll do the family business for a while till I figure out what I want to do with my life? What's your status?

Speaker 1:
[120:51] No, this is long-term for me, but...

Speaker 2:
[120:55] Okay.

Speaker 14:
[120:56] How old is he?

Speaker 1:
[120:59] Like 50.

Speaker 14:
[121:01] Okay. So this is a long ways away from like you inheriting the business on your own. This could be another 25 years of this. And it's not gonna be the last fight you guys have. So just know that going into business with family can be a fun idea and a harsh reality. So the conversation is, dad, I respect how you built things. I want to build this as well. I want to feel like an equal partner. Can we try running this thing lean debt free and see how it goes? And when and if we run into a situation where it's like, dang it, we need the credit card. I will concede and we'll have that conversation. So give him a trial instead of a debate. And that way he'll put his defenses down. Does he like the challenge?

Speaker 1:
[121:45] Yeah, I could give that a shot.

Speaker 14:
[121:47] 90 days.

Speaker 1:
[121:48] Maybe, I don't know.

Speaker 2:
[121:50] Yeah, and I don't mind George's approach.

Speaker 14:
[121:52] He might be a stubborn horse, I don't know.

Speaker 2:
[121:54] He might be. You got nothing to lose with George's approach. I have a high sense here that this is not gonna go the way you want it to go. And he's not gonna change. So that means-

Speaker 1:
[122:07] Likewise.

Speaker 2:
[122:07] You do too, okay. And so I like George's approach, but you need to reconcile the fact that this is the business I want to be in, this is my long-term play, and I philosophically disagree with my dad on debt.

Speaker 14:
[122:22] And the truth is, you guys did not align on values for this business before you started the partnership. You didn't set the ground rules or the boundaries and said, hey, one value I have is we're gonna run this business completely debt-free because it lowers our risk, lowers our stress, and increases our chances this thing survives.

Speaker 1:
[122:40] That's really at the heart of what you're doing. We don't have any loans or anything on the business. It's just that credit card.

Speaker 14:
[122:46] It's running the expenses through here.

Speaker 1:
[122:48] But now we don't have any points because we're paying somebody else's point.

Speaker 14:
[122:52] Yeah, that's where those late fees will go.

Speaker 2:
[122:55] So I just think you talk to dad, you keep chirping about it if you want to, always respectful. Make the challenge that George gave you. I'm all for that. But I'm also a realist to know that if he just isn't going to change his mind, you aren't going to change it for him. And so I would reconcile that and go, I'm going to do things different when I'm in charge. Until then, I'm going to focus on what I can control or what I do agree with and just learn how to deal with that. It's just a tough situation. I don't want you to have this constant tension between your dad and you over this issue because it seems like it's a healthy business otherwise.

Speaker 1:
[123:34] Yes. Yes, absolutely.

Speaker 2:
[123:36] Tough thing, man. It's tough.

Speaker 14:
[123:38] You're not going to leave the business over it. Then you got to make peace with it and try to over time get them on your side. Again, it's an old dog. New tricks are hard.

Speaker 2:
[123:47] Trust me, George is always trying to teach me new tricks. Aubrey's up next in Raleigh, North Carolina. You see what I did there?

Speaker 14:
[123:54] Well, I just helped Ken download an airline app for the first time and it felt like helping my grandpa. He had his readers on and everything.

Speaker 2:
[124:01] It was fantastic. It was.

Speaker 14:
[124:02] That's what it reminded me of. It's true.

Speaker 2:
[124:04] Was that a Starbucks in Charlotte? That was fun. Aubrey, how can we help you today?

Speaker 1:
[124:09] Hey, how are y'all?

Speaker 2:
[124:10] Good. What's going on?

Speaker 1:
[124:13] So, look, I'm just curious. Me and my wife, we've been married now going on two years. We've completely gotten out of all of our car debt, you know, everything else like that. So we're just left with the house now. And I'm just curious, she would like to go on, she likes to travel. She was a travel nurse when we got married and she wants to travel to Italy. And I'm wondering if we can kind of, not necessarily put a pause on the house, but maybe not pay as much extra on the house to be able to take the extra fun trips.

Speaker 2:
[124:48] How much is the trip going to be?

Speaker 1:
[124:51] The trip's probably going to end up being around 4,000, if I had to guess.

Speaker 2:
[124:56] And you have no debt?

Speaker 1:
[124:59] No debt besides the house, no sir.

Speaker 2:
[125:00] So this is, you're just simply saying we would slow down on our aggressive pain off of the house to be able to just sock $4,000 away fairly quickly to take a trip to Italy?

Speaker 1:
[125:13] Yes, sir.

Speaker 2:
[125:15] Why is that a problem? I think it's great.

Speaker 14:
[125:16] You live your life, man. Baby Steps 4 through 6, really through 7, is you're taking the foot off the pedal here and go, we don't need to be gazelle intense anymore. We just need to be intentional. So as long as you're saving up, you're paying cash for this trip, it's not going to delay your mortgage payoff by a year. We're talking a couple months at most.

Speaker 2:
[125:36] I don't know how you're going to do a trip to Italy for $4,000 is what's running through my brain. That's the most impressive part. I was like, what are you doing? Are you staying in a box?

Speaker 14:
[125:43] Are you guys doing hostels?

Speaker 1:
[125:46] No, it's a family trip, so it's kind of split cost between everybody.

Speaker 2:
[125:50] Oh, that's even better.

Speaker 14:
[125:52] Like lodging a split so that makes it a little cheaper. Got it.

Speaker 2:
[125:55] I wish I knew some Italian right now. I would throw it out there as an encouragement to say, do this, live a little. You know, George, you know any Italian?

Speaker 14:
[126:01] Bienvenido? That might be Spanish. I have no clue. I think I failed that class.

Speaker 2:
[126:06] Kelly, help us out. What is happening?

Speaker 14:
[126:08] She did Duolingo, right? Ciao.

Speaker 2:
[126:10] Ciao.

Speaker 14:
[126:11] That's not a good...

Speaker 2:
[126:12] That's not what this needs though. But thank you. She did help us. Ciao.

Speaker 14:
[126:15] We'll see you in Italy, Aubrey. Right.

Speaker 2:
[126:17] That works. Okay, great. Yeah. Aubrey, I mean, listen, you don't need permission on this from anybody.

Speaker 14:
[126:22] You're not doing anything wrong by doing this. It's okay to slow down your self-imposed goal. The key is you're being intentional. You're going to pay it off early, aren't you?

Speaker 1:
[126:32] Yeah.

Speaker 14:
[126:32] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[126:33] We definitely want to...

Speaker 14:
[126:34] Is this a case...

Speaker 1:
[126:35] It's a little bit daunting still. Still having 200,000 left on it.

Speaker 2:
[126:39] Okay. Really quick question. Is one of you, you or your wife, actually leaning towards not doing this?

Speaker 1:
[126:46] Going on the trip?

Speaker 2:
[126:46] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[126:48] No, we're both... I would say we're both leaning towards it. I'm more on the terms of paying stuff off as quick as possible.

Speaker 14:
[126:56] Lean hard, man. Lean into that leaning tower of Pisa.

Speaker 2:
[126:59] There it is.

Speaker 14:
[127:01] Full circle.

Speaker 2:
[127:01] You worked really hard on that. I think I like Kelly's chow better. But hey, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.