transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:01] Welcome to The Bossticks, starring Lauryn Bosstick and Michael Bosstick. Together, they are The Bossticks.

Speaker 2:
[00:10] Hello, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of The Bossticks. Today, we have one of our favorite recurring guests, Emma Grede, who is the ultimate modern mogul, turning big ideas into some of today's most influential consumer brands. She's the co-founder and CEO of Good American, a founding partner of Skims, the co-founder of Safely and Off Season, and now the voice behind the podcast, Aspire with Emma Grede. She also has a new book called Start With Yourself, which we discuss. And in this episode, because it's our third episode with Emma, we really got personal. We dove into how she thinks about things, her childhood, how she thinks about the people she works with, what she considers career power moves. And this episode is really for anyone who wants to live an extraordinary life on their own terms. We love talking to Emma. Like I said, this is her third time on the show. We also just interviewed her at the Inc Summit during South by Southwest. With that, Emma Grede for the third time, welcome back to The Bossticks. Emma, you're back on the show, third time. It's kind of like three and a half because we just did this panel, which we thought was going to be an episode.

Speaker 3:
[01:00] But you got said, no, no, no.

Speaker 2:
[01:02] Yeah, we really wanted to see you again, so we made an excuse. Welcome back to the show.

Speaker 3:
[01:06] I'm so happy to be here.

Speaker 4:
[01:08] Congratulations on your book.

Speaker 3:
[01:10] Thank you, my darlings.

Speaker 4:
[01:10] Start With Yourself.

Speaker 3:
[01:11] Let's go.

Speaker 4:
[01:12] I'm into it. I love it. I told you off air.

Speaker 3:
[01:14] It's very you.

Speaker 2:
[01:16] I don't know what that says about it, but yeah.

Speaker 4:
[01:18] It is very me.

Speaker 3:
[01:19] It's very you.

Speaker 4:
[01:20] By the way, I was born like that.

Speaker 3:
[01:22] I know this about you.

Speaker 4:
[01:24] I wish I had that.

Speaker 3:
[01:25] I know it's about you. She's like, here I am. I'll do it. Let's go.

Speaker 4:
[01:29] You have to start with yourself.

Speaker 3:
[01:30] Listen, I'm telling you, you've got to start with yourself. This is like the no bullshit guide to ambition, and it's really important for me to have written this. I can't tell you how happy I am with it.

Speaker 4:
[01:39] Well, congratulations. What's so interesting is I feel like every man on the planet starts with themself. So now we're stepping into our own powers.

Speaker 3:
[01:47] Catching up, babe. We just got to do it.

Speaker 4:
[01:49] Yeah, we're catching up.

Speaker 3:
[01:50] Absolutely.

Speaker 4:
[01:51] You opened up about your childhood in this book, which we haven't touched on much on the other episodes. I'm assuming you were saving it for the book.

Speaker 3:
[01:59] No, I just never thought that it was... I don't know. I just never felt like it was necessary. Like, I'm always here to, like, talk about my businesses and talk about my career and what I'm doing. And I never really thought that that was interesting.

Speaker 2:
[02:13] You know, though, for as long as we've done this show now, there's, like, when I try to think about what the through line is, so many high performers and achievers and people, you know, dating and whatever, like, so much, their childhood is, like, a map to later on. And I think we, like, you can, you know, we were talking to this guy the other day, and he was even talking about dating. He's like, the partners you choose, you know, you're either, you're trying to map to some parental behavior or something from, you'd say it's deep-rooted. So I think it's highly relevant to talk about you because people see all of the success you've had. And it's, like, almost like they see, I don't say the end result because you're still going, but they don't see all the things that took place early on. So if you look back on your childhood and you were to describe it to somebody that had no context of you, how would you describe it?

Speaker 3:
[02:59] I had a very loving childhood, if I'm really honest. You know, I'm the eldest of four. I was raised by a single mom, all girls, so kind of chaotic, like a, you know, kind of like the whole household was always like buzzing with like hormones and God help us, like that time of the month, you know. But it was for the large part, like I come from a real community, like East London is a real place where you have a sense of being in a community, that like you're looked after, that there are people around, that if you need to, you can go in their house and get fed. But there also was like, you know, there was danger. There was like stuff going down around me. And there was a sense of if you, you kind of didn't watch yourself that, you know, there was like a lot of fear there and a lot of unknowing. But I grew up in a really amazing family that really, like really looked after me.

Speaker 2:
[03:51] And at what age are you aware of that fear and danger?

Speaker 3:
[03:54] You know, too young, I would say, because I wasn't raised in a way where much was kept from me. Like there was no like, oh, be careful, the kids are listening. It was just like, my mom only had me and she relied on me in a big way. And so I became, we always joke in my family, the dynamic is like, my mom's the dad, I'm the mom and we have three kids together. And so I really had no choice but to lean in to help in my mom. But it was never something that I felt like put upon. I just thought like, you got to help your mom. It's like, my mom's at work, I needed to make the dinner. My mom was at work, I needed to iron school shirts and make a packed lunch for three kids and get them out the door. And honestly, by the time I took everyone to school, I would turn around and come home and watch Oprah. And that wasn't like, no one was like checking on me to make sure I went to school. Nobody was like, have you done your homework? It was like, is the ironing done? And if the ironing was done, you could get away with anything. And so that's how I lived.

Speaker 4:
[04:44] At what point in your life did you find that that was unique? Or did it take you a while to step out of it?

Speaker 3:
[04:52] I never really understood it until I was in my teens. Because again, like where I come from, there is this great sense, like your mom's your mom. There was never any questioning of like, is this right? Is this OK? I was just doing what I learned to do. I was a highly capable kid. I could make dinner for five people by the time I was like 10 or 11. And I never really thought of that as being put upon. I was like, this is just what my life is. I was always a person that had like massive ambition. Like I always imagined that there was something else on the other side, outside of where I was from, that I could literally work my way towards. I was like, if I just work really hard, I can get out of here and there's going to be this other thing on the other side. But you know, there was never a part of me that thought, oh, you know, like I feel so lonely for myself, or I feel like the other kids are doing something else. I was like, this is just my life.

Speaker 2:
[05:45] Well, I don't want to put words in your mouth, but it sounds like you're almost like trying to escape.

Speaker 3:
[05:48] I was very much trying to escape because I knew, I felt otherwise. I was like, this is not for me. I'm not going to stay here. I'm going to do what these people do. Like I really felt that it like deep down inside me, I was like, there has to be more out there. And you know, for me, I kind of got into fashion in the way that some people think about the movies. You know, it was my sense of escapism. It was this place that I went to in the magazines. And I looked at it, there's like, wow, there's this other insane world and you could be a part of that. And I would dive into the magazines and study all the brands. And for me, that sort of appetite to learn things was about like this sense of escapism, like getting out of what was my norm, which was really dark and really heavy and really intense and doing something that felt like more glamorous and more like, oh my goodness, there's something to aspire towards.

Speaker 4:
[06:38] When you start writing about both of your parents in your book, does that bring up a bunch of stuff that you were not thinking or is it therapeutic and liberating?

Speaker 3:
[06:46] I think both, if I'm really honest. I've done a lot of therapy. I've done a lot of work. I started when I would talk about it in the book. I had a real anger management problem. And when I was 18 or 19, I went and I did like a almost like a community therapy course and started to understand that no one ever said to me, you know, Emma, you can, you can breathe and get through this. You can get rid of that like feverishness that is like choking you. And you can, you can let the anger just kind of dissipate. I wasn't taught that. I had to teach myself that. And I think that I have through my life got better and better at managing the things that have held me back. And I knew that if I didn't get a grip on some of that stuff, that I wouldn't be able to get anywhere. So I think that I've done a lot of therapy. I did the Hoffman. I always have chosen to kind of go out and do things that, you know, are challenging for me and outside of what I was taught and what I know. And so the work has been, the work has been done. But of course, as soon as you write things down, you see like seeing it on a page is very different. And having other people question you about it and talk about it is different.

Speaker 2:
[07:57] With all the success that you've had since then and that you continue to have, do you still feel like you're trying to escape? Is that like still pushing you or do you feel like you've kind of now got to a place where you can breathe a little more?

Speaker 3:
[08:08] You know, I don't feel the need to escape. What I feel is such tremendous, like a tremendous sense of luck, right? Like there is nothing in me that thinks that talent alone, that hard work alone has gotten me to where I am. You know, the other day I went back to East London and we were doing some content for the book and for the tour and one of my friends DMed me after I posted and he was like, shit, you were here? And I was like, shit, you still live there? Like, do you know what I mean? Like, I didn't even cross my mind that someone I knew was still there in that place. And so that's never that far away from me, you know? It's like, it's always there. I talk about this skit that Chris Rock did, you know, he bought this, like, his first mega mansion, and he said he keeps a bag packed, because he always imagines someone's gonna come and be like, hey dude, this is not your life. And I kind of feel a little bit like that. Sitting in my house in Bel Air, I'm like, one day, it's gonna be over. And it's the only place where Skims shows up in my life.

Speaker 2:
[09:11] But I imagine that's also a bit of a superpower, because it keeps you motivated and driven and working.

Speaker 3:
[09:18] I don't take one single day for granted. Even coming here today, I get to come and speak to you two. I get to have this amazing team. I get to have my makeup done. There's nothing in me that goes, this is it, and I'm resting on my laurels. I am always thinking, what is next? What do I have to do? How hard do I need to work? How should I behave? How should I treat people? What is happening? That is just how I'm wired. I'm wired to be thinking about the next thing and never feel too comfortable.

Speaker 4:
[09:46] I really want to know for my own selfish self what you think about the fact that you are raising your children differently. And the way that you were raised has obviously created this unbelievably independent, successful, sort of like grit in a person. I want to raise my children with those.

Speaker 3:
[10:09] Yeah, good luck.

Speaker 4:
[10:11] I really want to raise them.

Speaker 2:
[10:11] Well, they're growing up with more opportunity.

Speaker 3:
[10:14] Right.

Speaker 4:
[10:14] So how do you do that as a parent?

Speaker 3:
[10:17] Well, listen, I don't think you can manufacture grittiness, right? I feel like when with my first kid, I was always trying to manufacture hardships. I was like, where are you going? Like back in the plane? Like, no, like get real, do you know what I mean? They are growing up and living really different lives to how I was raised. But at the same time, I'm like, well, what do they see? What is their lived experience? They watch their mom and their dad, by the way, leave the house every day. And we go out and we go to work five days a week. They also see me making a lot of sacrifices because I speak to my kids. I will never ever forget with Lola, my middle child, she's nine years old. She was like so sad that I was going to New York. She's like, mom, I'm so sorry you're going on another work trip. And I was like, you know what Lola, I have such a great time when I go to New York. Like I see my friends, I go for drinks, I sleep diagonally in a beautiful hotel. And she was like, oh, you do? You're going to have a good time? Like, great, have a good time. I had made her feel like that. Me creeping out the door going, I'm so, so sorry. So what I try to do is actually explain to my kids like, mommy has worked really, really hard to get to this place where what I do is so important to me and so important for me to see through that every now and again, I won't be there to satisfy one of your needs. And I think within that, I'm kind of teaching them that you have to work hard, you have to go out, like the point of your whole life is for you to be happy, not to satisfy me. And that's what I'm doing. And I think that is sometimes a little bit hard to swallow, like for people, like you're a mom of four and you're putting yourself first. And it's like, yeah, I am. And I've chosen to have these children and I love being a mom, but it isn't everything. It isn't 100% of me, it's a part of me. And I think that they're gonna learn from that.

Speaker 2:
[11:59] Why do you think that's a hard pill for people to swallow?

Speaker 3:
[12:01] Because I guess the pre-required idea of a woman is that you've got to be empathetic and that you have to please other people and that you have to make sure that what you come across as first and foremost is a mother. And that just isn't the reality of my experience. You know, when I wrote this book, I was like, I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie about how I feel about my job and how much I love it. I'm not gonna lie about the things that I do for my family. I'm not gonna lie about the trade-offs. I'm actually just gonna be really honest because I think what we need is more models in the culture of like, there's different ways to be a mom. There's different ways to be a businesswoman. Just so happens that I'm combining the both, but I don't really sign up for this idea that everything I do has to orientate around my kids. Or indeed, that everything they do needs to be somehow managed by me, because I just don't, I just refuse to sign up for that. I don't believe that that's the type of parent I want to be. I don't want to control like every part of my kid's life. Like, I don't understand when parenting became kind of like this full time happiness project, you on behalf of your child and usually the mother doing that for the whole family. I'm like, I am not here to please everybody else. I have to please myself first and then work my way through the family.

Speaker 4:
[13:22] It's interesting that you're saying this because you actually helped me on the last episode, not with Ink, but you helped me so much because I was having so much mom guilt.

Speaker 3:
[13:34] Yeah, you were.

Speaker 4:
[13:35] And you told me that story about how I need to tell my daughter, I get to work, I'm so lucky to work, and it changed when I leave now. She's not freaking out. And I also think it's true. She's seeing me and my power being independent. She's happy for you. By the way, this is what works for me. Yes. It doesn't have to work for everyone else. I'm just saying, for me, I want my kids to see this kind of role model. And you had that when you were young, which is-

Speaker 2:
[14:02] Well, my mom worked always and still does. And so in my example, I actually think as I've gotten older, and I've analyzed certain women I'm attracted to in friendships, it's like women like yourself.

Speaker 3:
[14:14] Yeah, you had the archetype.

Speaker 2:
[14:15] Yeah, because my mom was always off doing- And yeah, of course you miss your mom and you want to see her. But as I've gotten older, I respect what she was doing. She was just trying to work for the family.

Speaker 4:
[14:24] It also makes a pretty independent kid. Yeah, and you know what?

Speaker 2:
[14:27] Here's the thing, and I'll just take a shot at some of my friends that I think were babied a little too much, my guy friends.

Speaker 4:
[14:31] The umbilical cord is still-

Speaker 2:
[14:33] Mommy issues are a real thing.

Speaker 4:
[14:34] One of my friends is still breastfeeding. He's 41.

Speaker 3:
[14:37] No, no.

Speaker 2:
[14:38] Yeah, it's a little-

Speaker 4:
[14:40] The umbilical cord just got cut three years ago.

Speaker 2:
[14:43] Taylor, what are you doing back there, Taylor? No, but I do think that later in life, if you've had this like- Okay, I might get in trouble. If you've had this like overly doting mother that's helicoptering over all the time, and then you date women later, especially more really strong independent women, and you're looking for them to map to your mother who was maybe like doing a little too much, it's hard then later because you have this dynamic where you're like expecting that- Because you map to what the example is.

Speaker 3:
[15:12] Yeah. Well, and I feel like women do that in so many ways. It's coming from a place of like I want to help my kids, I want to do everything that I can for them. But in actual fact, you take away the ability for them to have their own choice. Like I want my kids to have the dignity of their own process. Like I want them to go through things and figure out what is right for them. I don't want to sweep all the obstacles out of the way, and neither do I want them to feel like they can't do something for themselves. And so I think sometimes just leaving a little, like something out there, like you guys have to figure it out. Like it's not my job to like do, you know, figure out every play date and like go through every single thing that you're gonna eat and like map out every outfit. There's shit that you need to do by yourself, and that's gonna be really, really good for you. And hopefully you find something that you love. Like that's all I ask for my kids. I just want them to have one thing that they care the most about and be amazing at that.

Speaker 4:
[16:08] I tell my kids when they ask me to do something, I go, I made you two hands and two feet to walk to go get it and pick it up in my stomach. There they are.

Speaker 3:
[16:19] I did that. For you.

Speaker 4:
[16:20] I did that. Get up, go get your scissors to open the bag of chips.

Speaker 3:
[16:26] Yes.

Speaker 4:
[16:26] I don't care if you're three, get those scissors that are the toddlers. You can figure it out. You gotta figure it out.

Speaker 3:
[16:31] But you know, you know that and you see it now, right? I can see so clearly when people in their early 20s come to work for me, I'm like, whose mom opened the chips for them? Right? It's clear as day and I don't think that that is a good way to live and I don't think it's healthy for the parents and because it usually falls on the mom, what it does is takes away from so much of your energy and you get resentful and I promised myself when I had my first kid that I would never project resentment on him and what that meant is I'm gonna have to do all of this stuff I was gonna do anyway and he's gonna have to figure it out and those two things that we meet in the middle, right? It's actually that I'm a very good, very hands-on mom. I just have chosen what's important to me.

Speaker 2:
[17:13] I even think about it from the lens, like if you're at a certain level of success as a parent, like if you had it easier than your parents and now your kid's probably gonna have it easier than you, so you almost have to like double on the capability.

Speaker 3:
[17:27] Yeah. Right?

Speaker 2:
[17:27] Because like I think about it for our kids, like we had to figure some things out, you had to figure some things out, a lot's figured out for them and I'm like, well, now you guys need to like almost double figure out shit because if not, you're gonna get into the real world and you're gonna realize it's not a soft place and you're gonna be set up for a miserable time.

Speaker 3:
[17:45] You're gonna be set up for a miserable time. And that's when I love this idea of thinking about vision. It's not just something that you bring to business, but you bring into your life and for your family because I think that when you have a strong idea of like, what type of woman you wanna be, what type of mom you wanna be, what type of father you wanna be, you reduce the ability to feel guilty about anything. Because you're like, these are the things that matter to our family. This is the stuff that's important to me. And for me, I have to be there for bedtime. I like to do bedtimes. I like that moment of having dinner together and doing stories and then putting the kids to bed. But it does mean that there are other things that I'm not there for. And I have to explain that to my kids. But in my vision of what type of mom I wanna be, I'm very clear about that. So I'm not trying to measure myself against like some woman that I saw on Instagram. Because that's not what is important to me. That's not the vision I have for myself as a mother. So I try to get like really clear on like, what is the stuff that matters the most to me?

Speaker 4:
[18:42] You know what? I have a tip. Sometimes I see a lot of people like filming like these amazing like, like they're like waking up and making breakfast with the kids and milking the cow outside and the goat gives the baby a lick.

Speaker 3:
[18:54] What do you mean?

Speaker 4:
[18:54] And then I think to myself, wait, but there's a camera in the kids' face. And my vision, and this is not a judge, go ahead and put a camera in your kids' face, but my vision for my kids is I want my kids off screens for as long as possible.

Speaker 2:
[19:08] He's kind of a slight judge.

Speaker 4:
[19:08] Is it a judge? I'm being honest. I'm not saying a judge. I'm just saying there's sacrifice with everything. And the sacrifice with that is there's a camera in the kids' face. So I just think my point of it is saying if you're just scrolling and you're looking at other people's lives and how it looks, the sacrifice is there's a camera in the kids' face.

Speaker 3:
[19:28] So you need to know that.

Speaker 2:
[19:29] What I'll also say is similar to your husband and you, we work together. I don't think I can recall one time having a guy reach out to me and give me shit about time with kids or a nanny or if I go to work.

Speaker 3:
[19:42] Ever!

Speaker 2:
[19:43] And I know you guys, like you both are working equal hours.

Speaker 3:
[19:48] We're working a lot.

Speaker 2:
[19:49] We're here together. And so there is, I do think, an unfair pressure put on women when they acknowledge that they are getting help or that they are working on their business or they are taking time away from the kids. And I, as a man, have never once experienced any of that.

Speaker 3:
[20:04] Ever, ever, ever. The first piece of press that has come out about my book remarks what I'm not, what time I'm not spending with my kids. I was like, what are we talking about? I mean, listen, the headline is the headline. The headline will make you click on it. Job done. Well done, guys. But the point is that they would never have written that article about you ever in a million years. And so it is fucked. It is fucked. But it also is why I wrote the book. Because unless we're honest about that, right? What I said is that I'm a three hour mom, meaning that it's like I really enjoy being with my kids for about three hours. And then I'm like, I'm done.

Speaker 4:
[20:37] I like the honesty.

Speaker 3:
[20:38] And I stand by it because it's like that's the truth. And a lot of moms who work full time feel like that. Saturday at lunchtime, you're like, really? Like, really? We're going to do this like whole day now? Listen, we're working.

Speaker 2:
[20:48] We have the kids with us in a hotel. I looked at Lauryn. I almost threw myself out the window. Yeah, I threw myself in another room. I was like, Jesus Christ.

Speaker 3:
[20:53] But it's the truth. And that doesn't mean I don't love my kids. You're so far. I'm not an attentive mom. Far is a lot. It's a lot of people.

Speaker 2:
[21:00] But to your point on that headline, what I would also say is it's a commentary that like, you're right, a man would have never gotten that headline. And the second thing is people wouldn't have clicked it if it was a man in the headline. True. So they know what they're doing. But it's a commentary on like, I don't see, I think it's unfair that women get put on that pressure when they're expected to build a business like a man, run a company like a man.

Speaker 3:
[21:23] Yeah, have the same results as a man.

Speaker 2:
[21:25] And then say, and by the way, you're not being as good of a mother as you can be. Because again, men, we just don't have that kind of, we don't get that kind of feedback.

Speaker 3:
[21:32] True. And I think that that is again, one of the main reasons for writing this book was really about dismantling some of these deeply held beliefs that exist in the culture, that actually hold women back and keep women really small. And when you can untrain, I read that article and got the headline and my friends were enraged about it. I was like, that's the journalist doing their job and creating clickbait. And yeah, is it unfair? Would it have been done without? But I don't have time to spend on it, right? People were enraged in the comments on my behalf. The point is what we need to do is not say those things. I will say it again to you and again wherever else I go, because that's my truth. And I think that is so long as we keep shying away from that stuff, what we do is continue to perpetuate the myth that it's not okay to actually have those thoughts and feelings when I know the reality is loads of moms feel like that. And that's okay. That doesn't mean you're a bad mom. That doesn't mean you shouldn't say it. It just means that most people are not being honest and truthful about how they feel and what it really takes.

Speaker 4:
[22:28] I, for what I do in my line of work, I don't know if I'm unique to me. It's a breath of fresh air. It makes me feel comfortable as opposed to feeling, not the article. The what? Just empowering me to start with myself so I can put on my own oxygen mask to support my children. Everyone knows I'm a huge fan of self care. I always have been and I don't apologize for that. And I think it gives women that are building a business, it's liberating. I feel liberated when I read your content, when I see your content. I think it's all in the way you look at it, right? Are you looking, it's scarcity abundant.

Speaker 3:
[23:09] Yes.

Speaker 4:
[23:10] I think it's opening doors for women. And I also think you're evolving an old narrative that needs to be evolved.

Speaker 3:
[23:16] It needs to be evolved. It needs to be evolved. We're desperate because at the end of the day, what we want is more women in positions of power. In fact, we desperately need more women in positions of power, but we can't do that unless we have the conversations about money, about leadership, about power. And when we set ourselves up in these weird social media narratives that aren't true and aren't honest, we're actually just doing ourselves a disservice. And I'm totally uninterested in doing that.

Speaker 4:
[23:45] Well, think about it. If no women spoke up, we would still be churning butter in the fucking kitchen. We need people to speak up about how that headline would never be written about a man.

Speaker 3:
[23:57] We need a level of honesty about what it takes. And I think that that was the very reason for me that I decided to actually become more public in the first place, because people thought that I was like a social media person. It's like, guys, I'm in the office five days a week. When you see me at my desk with my legs up, like I have actually just been on a phone call. They're coming in and taking a picture of me. And so this idea about like being a female boss, I really wanted to say, no, no, no, no. It's like there is work, there is failure, there is misery, there is hardship, there are trade-offs, there's all of this stuff that you don't get to see. And I wanted to be really honest about what it actually takes.

Speaker 2:
[24:37] I wanted to talk to you about that because similar to you, I was always like, I've always been an operator, been behind the scenes. Obviously I do this now with her for a long time, but I've always been more comfortable like running a company, right? And being quiet and like not having, now I've gotten obviously comfortable being, but when you first started putting yourself out there more as front-facing, what surprised you the most? Did you naturally take to it? Did you feel like you still had to be in the background? Because now you have your own show, book, everything.

Speaker 3:
[25:06] No, I always felt like it was a choice and it was a purposeful choice. I don't do anything by accident. I'm a very intentional person, and I felt like a narrative was being written on my behalf, which wasn't the truth. It was like that I'd come into this country and stumbled upon something incredible and like, ta-da, there she is, like billionaire. I was like, hang about. I've had a job since I was 12. I want to be really honest about that because I did a lot of things that were really unenjoyable work. Most people work a job that they don't really like to get somewhere that they like a little bit more before they get to do the thing that really is joyous and pays them a lot of money. That was my journey. So I thought if I could just be honest about that part of it, if I could show you my journey and all the things that didn't work out for me, that that would be the better way for people to understand like here is what it takes. And so when I talk about my experience, that's like actually that's my experience. That's what I've been doing for the last 25 years. And that was important to me because I think that social media has set people up to somehow imagine that you can consume your way to success. That if you listen to enough podcasts that you can be brilliant. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. Ambition has to find you working. Like, there are no shortcuts. There is nothing that I've done that I can magically give to you and suddenly be like, here you are, like, here's a success. So I just wanted to be like real about it. I just wanted to like be honest.

Speaker 2:
[26:35] No, and I think it being delivered from you who's actually done all of the things and built your way up and built real companies and land, again, love social media and no shade on these people. But if you're a 27 year old life coach that went viral one day and now has a platform, I'm less inclined to take you seriously.

Speaker 3:
[26:53] Why's that?

Speaker 2:
[26:56] I think people are looking for real examples of people who've come up the hard way and have done the things. I think what I appreciate about how you've done it, is you haven't sugar coated. We talked about it on stage at Inc. You're not sitting there saying like, oh, it's just happened and I manifest and I thought about it. It's like, no, it was getting in the gutter and getting in the weeds and doing the hard shit day after day.

Speaker 3:
[27:20] Totally. What I really loathe for women is that there's so much of that rhetoric about, there's so much there for women that tells them that you can manifest and vision board your way to success. That's just never been my experience. I love manifestation and I am a manifesto as much as the next girl. But it's not without the other piece of it. And I think what happened specifically around female entrepreneurship is that it became all about being the face of the brand. It became all about this idea of who's at the launch party and what is the influencer strategy and what does the marketing look like. I'm like, guys, that's the last fucking thing. That's literally the last thing. It almost doesn't matter. The years we had brands where they were faceless, nameless. We didn't know the founder. We just got up every morning and brushed our teeth with Colgate and was like, that shit works and bought it for the next 125 years. So what I wanted to explain to people is like, that shit is not important. Talk to me about logistics. Talk to me about distribution. Talk to me about understanding your finances. Don't tell me that you don't understand numbers. Don't think that that is an excuse that you're not good at math. These are the things that we have to teach each other and be honest about and learn. And so I was really like had a point of view to say the stuff that we are concerning ourselves with right now is not going to make women rich. The things that we are concerned with right now is not going to create more powerful women in business. But there is a bunch of other stuff that does. So let's just like talk about that. Let's orientate ourselves around the things that will really matter and move the needles for women.

Speaker 4:
[28:50] If you could wave a wand and have women just do all like the list, the Emma list. What is that list?

Speaker 3:
[28:56] The list is in the book, Start With Yourself.

Speaker 4:
[28:58] Do you know what it is? You got to get the book. It's beautiful.

Speaker 3:
[29:00] The list is about the stuff that you think. I have this amazing friend, Dianne Von Furstenberg. I'm not name dropping, but I am. That's a name drop. It's a name drop. But Dianne always says, the most important relationship you'll ever have is the relationship you have with yourself. What I don't want is for women to talk themselves out of being incredible business women before they've even got out of the gate and before they've even got started. And sometimes the reason that I wrote this book in the way that I did was that managing your emotions is a huge part of decision making as it pertains to business. Because if you are managing from a place of guilt or from a place of fear, you will stop yourself before you've even got started. So my book is really structured in this way to say, do you know what? Let's make sure that your biggest enemy isn't living in your own head because you'll never get out the gate. If you're too scared to fail, if you're too scared to lose, if you really believe that you never need to be uncomfortable, you won't go anywhere because ambition requires discomfort. If you're going to make a load of money, it requires this level of audacity. So you've got to get comfortable with those things and you can't be a people pleaser. So the book was really structured in a way to say, have a vision for yourself and the type of life that you want to lead. Figure out how to manage your emotions and then be aware of all of these rules and these old thoughts that exist for women specifically and replace them with a new thought. And if you can't do those things, you won't get out of the gate.

Speaker 2:
[30:30] Let's talk about one of my favorite supplements that we recently discovered in the last two years. And that is Fatty15. I love this product so much. It has quickly become something that I take every single day. And here's why. We've had the founder of Fatty15, Dr. Stephanie Van Watson, on this podcast multiple times. And as soon as I heard her story and her mission behind Fatty15, I was sold. If any of you have concerns like me about aging, making sure that you're not in pain, making sure that you're getting better sleep, really all the things that we think about when it comes to healthy aging, having Fatty15 can really be a great resource for you. And that's because Fatty15 has arrived from C15, which is one of the first emerging essential fatty acids to be discovered in more than 90 years. It's an incredible scientific breakthrough to support our long-term health and wellness and you guessed it, healthy aging. Based on over 100 studies, we know that C15 strengthens our cells and is a foundational healthy aging nutrient, which helps to slow aging at the cellular level. In fact, when our cells don't have enough C15, they can become fragile and age faster. And when our cells age, our bodies age too. What Fatty15 does is it repairs age-related damage to cells, protects them from breakdown and activates pathways in the body that help regulate our sleep, cognitive health and metabolism. This functionality leads to so many exciting benefits, including deeper sleep, healthier hair, skin and nails. So check them out. We take it every single day. Fatty15 is on a mission to optimize your C15 levels to help support your long-term health and wellness, especially as you age. You can get an additional 15% off their 90-day subscription starter kit by going to fatty15.com/skinny and using code skinny at checkout. AI has such potential to increase output productivity. 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Speaker 4:
[35:21] This episode is brought to you by Xyzal. I am so allergic to cats. The worst. And I use Xyzal Allergy 24-Hour. Okay, if you're like me, if I even smell a cat, I don't feel good the next day. So it's really important that I always have my Xyzal Allergy 24-Hour relief in my handbag. It starts working and I can tell you guys this quick. It's like in as little as 45 minutes. Xyzal relieves allergy symptoms, including sneezing, runny nose, itchy, watery eyes. I get a lot of watery eyes. And an itchy nose and throat for 24 hours. It gives you continuous 24-Hour allergy relief that won't fade. It's also designed to be taken at night. So it's already working at full strength in the morning when pollen levels are the highest. I'm also sensitive to pollen and Austin is difficult. 24-Hour prescription strength relief from outdoor allergies such as pollen, ragweed, grass and trees. And then you also are going to get relief from those indoor allergens such as dust, mold, pet dander. Visit www.zyzal.com for more information. That's xyzal.com for more information.

Speaker 2:
[36:38] I know it's geared towards primarily women, but like this is applicable and great advice for men as well.

Speaker 3:
[36:44] Oh, I think so.

Speaker 2:
[36:44] And there's some men on this team that are like some of your biggest fans. And again, like I think the things you are saying, yes, it can help a ton of women. I know that's who you're primarily speaking to, but it's just great advice in general.

Speaker 3:
[36:55] I think so because I started the book by writing what was easy to me, right? Like building a brand, leadership, career, money. Like that stuff was like, I know this. That's what I've done for years and years, and I've been really successful at it. And I intrinsically understand that. So that was like the starting point for me. I added those other parts of the book on because I was like, this is actually the stuff that's stopping people in their tracks. And we all know that feeling of fear. It's not that I don't get it anymore. It's just I've learned to manage it and I've learned to use it almost as like a signal. I'm like, when I'm scared, I know there's something good there. Like I am 100% sure that all the things that I do that are like a little bit troubling to me, other things that I need to do to move myself forward. And I think that that's applicable to anyone.

Speaker 4:
[37:42] I've found, and Michael and I were talking about this this morning, very successful people are really intentional. What are things to you that are a distraction and get brutal?

Speaker 3:
[37:52] Oh, things that are a distraction. You know, I love alcohol and a good drink. So I think as a kid, I really had to like stem my enthusiasm for like partying for sure. And I'm lucky that I live, you know, in LA where there's not that much of a party happening, guys. Let's be fair.

Speaker 2:
[38:10] What happened to the party? Listen, if you would have, why did you come here?

Speaker 3:
[38:13] I came here eight, nine years ago now. Eight or nine years ago.

Speaker 2:
[38:16] Okay, well that's nine years ago. There's still like kind of a party going then.

Speaker 3:
[38:19] Not as much. I was invited.

Speaker 4:
[38:21] The party's a little.

Speaker 3:
[38:22] It's like not like a Europe party. Not like a pizza. No, we don't have things like that.

Speaker 2:
[38:27] But there was a period of time, I would say. Between 2010 and 15, we're like maybe the golden year. The party has kind of gotten quiet here.

Speaker 3:
[38:35] It got quiet. I mean, they had the day here, but I feel like that if you ask me what gets in my way, I love to have a good time. I think I'm really lucky that all my best friends are in England and I'm not distracted constantly by like going out or being at a thing. That's really helpful.

Speaker 4:
[38:54] What about micro distractions? Meaning like, I'm just going to make this up.

Speaker 3:
[38:58] Is that social?

Speaker 4:
[38:58] Sure. It could be like a gossiping mom at school. What are your micro distractions? No, I don't. That you don't, I'm saying that you avoid.

Speaker 3:
[39:10] That I avoid?

Speaker 4:
[39:10] I'm not saying that you're for taking.

Speaker 3:
[39:12] I avoid social. I avoid all mom groups. Literally.

Speaker 4:
[39:16] That's what I mean.

Speaker 3:
[39:17] No, I've got the nannies on the mom group and they text in my place. Like I can't, I can't, I can't.

Speaker 2:
[39:21] Well, the mom groups out here in LA are wild. I was looking at some of those. Speaking of articles.

Speaker 4:
[39:26] I had to move to Austin because I couldn't do it. Really?

Speaker 2:
[39:29] I couldn't do it.

Speaker 3:
[39:30] They are so, listen, don't bless those mom groups and the class moms and the whole thing. I'm like, God love them. Like, I just can't.

Speaker 4:
[39:37] OK, so those are things that you don't partake in that you think are a distraction for you.

Speaker 3:
[39:42] For me.

Speaker 4:
[39:42] OK.

Speaker 3:
[39:42] Absolutely. They're a big distraction.

Speaker 4:
[39:44] And social media, you said.

Speaker 3:
[39:46] Yeah, because social is a tough one, right? Like, I actually I'm such a people person. Like, I love people. I love the chat. I love the gossip. I like to know what's going on. I like the news. But to me, it's like if it becomes like overly. It's not even about negativity. It's like I don't like anything that consumes me.

Speaker 4:
[40:05] I agree.

Speaker 3:
[40:05] Like, I like to be in control. And so, you know, it's like I never got into TikTok. Like, I've tried. I think I might. I don't know if I've just aged out or whatever it was. It's like I just never got the enjoyment. I love a little Instagram skull, but that just never happened to me. And I really think it's just a bad use of time. You know, I have this trick. I turn my phone black and white. So, like, it's not just the social. It's the camera. It's all the AI apps that are on there now. There's this sort of never-ending playground on my phone. I'm like, dun-dun-dun.

Speaker 4:
[40:34] Do not pull out your phone with your ex on it. That's my dog. That's your dog. You are on ex.

Speaker 2:
[40:42] Oh, that's my ex-girlfriend.

Speaker 3:
[40:43] Oh, that's what I was like.

Speaker 4:
[40:46] Like, ex the Twitter or whatever. Wow.

Speaker 3:
[40:49] I thought we were having a whole different podcast. I'm like, let me be the therapist, Bossticks.

Speaker 2:
[40:53] No, no, no, no, no. No, but we go and speak at schools sometime because now, and I'm sure you do as well, this is a new way of doing business, a lot of these platforms of people. And my main thing to the people we speak to, which, by the way, half these schools have never even looked at my application. They're just thrown right in the trash. But I say, you got to decide if this is a tool or if you're being a consumer and if you're just a mindless consumer, then you're using social the wrong way.

Speaker 3:
[41:17] Totally.

Speaker 2:
[41:18] Because you're just being sucked into the endless scrolling of nothingness.

Speaker 3:
[41:23] Yeah. And listen, I like the news, but I don't think that social is where you get your news from. You know, again, I'm very purposeful. I wake up in the morning, I read the same publications every day.

Speaker 4:
[41:32] What do you read in the morning? You got to tell us what you read.

Speaker 3:
[41:35] Oh, all the boring stuff.

Speaker 2:
[41:36] Not The Wall Street Journal.

Speaker 3:
[41:37] I do actually read The Wall Street Journal. And I will continue to read The Wall Street Journal, even if I don't love all their headlines. But each to their own, they're very good. But I do, I read the FT, I read The Wall Street Journal. I like The Economist because I like to have an outside of America viewpoint on things. I am a consumer of the news. I listen to The Daily, like The New York Times. I love that podcast while I'm getting ready. It brings you up to speed on what's happening.

Speaker 4:
[42:01] You run your household like a military operation.

Speaker 3:
[42:04] A military operation.

Speaker 4:
[42:05] Let's hear it. I want to know all the things.

Speaker 3:
[42:07] Well, I'm just very scheduled because when you have four kids, if you're going to have like 45 minutes in the morning together as a family, which is what I aim for every day, which is usually 30, but the aim is 45, you have to be scheduled. So my thing is that everyone needs to be at the breakfast table at 7.30. It doesn't matter in what state. So you might have a kid half dressed, nobody has their hair down, one shoe on, one shoe off, but it's like, let's get there because then we all basically leave by about 8.15. And you can have this nutty breakfast moment, but it's good because you're together. You're chitting and chatting, I'm checking in, understanding what's happening, but I am up early. I wake up naturally at like 4.45. I work out, but I'm an early bird. I'm just wired that way. I think it was the paper route as a kid. Like I just-

Speaker 4:
[42:52] It must have been the paper route.

Speaker 3:
[42:53] I'm just like, I'm an early bird. So it's like I get up early, I work out with a trainer, I get ready really, really quickly. I have like a uniform. So it's like, I'm not putting outfits together. It's like the outfits are down on a Sunday.

Speaker 4:
[43:02] What's the uniform?

Speaker 3:
[43:03] Well, it's usually like jeans and a nice top, a black pant and a nice top. You see me coming out of the elevator, I rewear the same thing all the time. So it's like I have my uniform, I go downstairs, I have that moment of getting ready. I'm out the door at 8.15, I get to the office between 8.30, 8.45 depending on the day. Then I'm just in meetings back to back to back all day. But I leave every day at 5. What that allows and what it creates are the conditions for everybody else to leave at 5. Because for me that like I said that bedtime, that nighttime routine, that's important to me. I want to bookend the day and make sure the kids see me, and I have a check-in with them, and I have that lovely little moment where they're a bit sleepy and nice and I put them down. Sometimes like all the time I go back to work, I'll be back on e-mail or going out for a dinner. But I am really, really militant about leaving that office at 5. If somebody wants to talk to me, they need to be coming in the elevator with me. There is no like 10 past 5, 5 past 5. When I need something done, it has to be done.

Speaker 4:
[44:03] And how do you run your team of employees when it comes to your day-to-day? Like is your assistant knows certain things? I want to know more about the infrastructure of that.

Speaker 3:
[44:14] My assistant knows everything.

Speaker 4:
[44:16] I need some tips.

Speaker 3:
[44:18] Everything. Okay, so the point is I have like a little and lovely army around me. So I, I mean, it's really interesting. So I have an assistant who is like right by my side. So wherever I am, she is. And then I have somebody who's kind of, you know, I have like a chief of staff who is around everything. Like I don't manage nannies or anybody in my house. I have somebody who kind of looks after that. And then I have very, very good people in all of the companies and managing every division of every company. And so I am in constant contact with each of those people. I don't run like, I don't have like one company one day. I do everything all the time. That's just like how my life works.

Speaker 4:
[45:02] And what I think when I hear that, I think that is so strategic because it gives you even more time with your children that's purposeful. So you're not managing all this stuff. To perform at the level that you want to perform at, and you tell me you have someone who manages the nannies, that takes that off your plate so you can be more present. I'm always trying to figure out ways that I can be more present with my kids instead of me trying to do everything myself.

Speaker 3:
[45:26] I talk about this so much in the book. It's like you have to accept help. And I think what happens often is people, and I mean like help from everywhere. I am not like, I expect my husband to help, but it also means that I don't, you know, it's like I have to check my masculine energy at the door, my job all day. He's telling me what to do. I'm sure you do it very well. I try. Judging by his, yeah. And so it's like, but it's important, right? It's like, I'm not going to micromanage my husband. If he is getting a kid dressed, I'm not like, put the thing on, turn the thing around. I'm like, just like deal with the bad outfit. Deal with the child like slightly, you know, more disheveled than if I'd done it myself. So it's like, I'm also not trying to manage people to do the stuff that I've outsourced them to do. Do you know what I mean? Like that's important. You gotta give the task away and you gotta let it go. And you gotta accept it like 85% sometimes.

Speaker 2:
[46:16] Oh, yeah. It sounds like, I mean, I imagine similar to our relationship, your husband knows exactly who he signed up for and what he's like.

Speaker 3:
[46:22] Oh, I think so. I mean, he would have got rid of me by now. No, but I mean like with us- Either that or he's like a tortured individual.

Speaker 2:
[46:27] Cause I can see sometimes the comments come in or like we're joking or you're not cooking. I don't expect her to like, what she's building and what she's trying to do. I know the sacrifice and the time that it takes. So I'm not sitting there and being like, where's dinner on the table? I get like what it requires, right? So yeah, we need help. And similar to what you're doing, like to build extraordinary things, it requires a tremendous amount of energy and sacrifice and time.

Speaker 4:
[46:48] My favorite thing is to postmates McDonald's french fries and put them in a gorgeous silver Kristoff face. That is so nice.

Speaker 3:
[46:55] It's beautiful. That is so nice. She's like, look at this.

Speaker 4:
[46:58] Little organic ketchup. I did that.

Speaker 3:
[46:59] I did that.

Speaker 4:
[47:01] That's what you get.

Speaker 2:
[47:03] Because I would never want her to not build the thing she's excited to build out to put, I can listen, I can postmates or go to dinner. I can hire, you know what I mean?

Speaker 3:
[47:13] It's about choosing the right partner.

Speaker 4:
[47:14] How is your husband synergistic to you? What are his traits that you feel you're not as strong at? And what are your traits that he's not strong at?

Speaker 3:
[47:22] We are very, very, very different. Jens is not like an operator. He is a big picture strategy guy. Jens is like vision. He's like overarching, like, you know, genius guy like this. I'm like in the weeds. I'm in the stuff. I'm like looking at the componentry of the bra. Like I am choosing the zip. Like, do you know what I mean? It's like I am extremely operational and like in it every day. That is just not what he does. And so we are very, very, very different in that way. I speak to everyone and I'm friends with everybody and I know the names of everybody. And Jens is like, who's that? I'm like, oh dear, she's been here for five years. That's just not what he concerns himself with. He's like, wow, you have a lot of fun with your team. I'm like, yes, isn't that the whole point of life? He's like, not my life. So we're just very, very different how we come into the workplace.

Speaker 4:
[48:17] How do you guys, this is another selfish question. Sorry, but I feel like everyone will like this. How do you guys manage travel with four children?

Speaker 3:
[48:24] That's an interesting one. So we're very rarely away at the same time. It does happen. I only have one family member here in LA, my amazing sister, Katie Beth. And when those times happen, she will come and be with our kids. So I need to give her no notice. I'm like, Kate, we fucked up the schedule. Me and Yen's, we're crossing over in New York for two nights. And she's like, I'm there. I'm going to be with your kids. I never, ever leave them with just our nannies.

Speaker 4:
[48:52] I mean, what do you do when you travel with them? Oh, with the children?

Speaker 3:
[48:58] Oh, it's like, you know, it's like the Obamas are coming or something. It's like three SUVs. Because we've out, you know, there's more of them. Yeah, but I always travel. And again, I don't like to not tell the truth about this. Like even when I travel, I travel with my help. I travel with nannies that are going to make that easy for us because I am always working. When I get on a flight, that's my work time. I'm not like chowing down on a Disney movie with the kids. Even on a family trip, we just came back from Hawaii. I worked the entire five-hour flight.

Speaker 4:
[49:31] I find this so refreshing. Oh, you do? I don't know if I've...

Speaker 2:
[49:36] Well, I think because a lot of people lie about it.

Speaker 4:
[49:38] For me, it's like, you're right, a lot of people lie about it and they're not honest.

Speaker 3:
[49:44] Yeah, we can't do that to each other.

Speaker 4:
[49:46] No, we can't.

Speaker 3:
[49:48] You're not encouraging women to accept help if you're not honest about how much help you have. And listen, I know that I have extraordinary means, right? It's like I have a lot of privilege, but it's like when we talk about taking help, that can be anything. That can be having other mums at the school help with you. That can be like getting a meal service in. It can indeed be ordering fries from McDonald's. Maybe they're not going in a Silver Kristoff thing, but you're still ordering the fries. Do whatever it is for you to get through the day. Don't apologize for it because that's the worst part.

Speaker 2:
[50:20] Even the fact that people have to apologize for having means after working hard. I think I always take issue with that because I feel if you've made sacrifices that most people won't make and you work in a way that a lot of people don't want to and you are the beneficiary of financial success because of that, you shouldn't have to say sorry for that.

Speaker 3:
[50:43] Well, that's why I live here in America, darling.

Speaker 2:
[50:46] In Europe, it's a lot different.

Speaker 3:
[50:47] It's a lot different and people talk about this all the time. I often get calls from my family in Europe and they'll be like, goodness, what is happening in America? Come home, darling. I don't know that I buy that. We all know the issues with America. We all understand the political climate in which we find ourselves. But there is not a country in the world that I could have had this type of success in, in this time scale. Not in Russia, not in China, not anywhere, not even in my home country in England or any other European place. The beauty of this country is the way that it is set up and has traditionally been set up to embrace people, to let you feel like you can come to America. If you work hard enough and you do a good job, that you can make it. I am the living, breathing American dream. I thank God, the country, the people here for that every single day. So what we have got to make sure is that we don't take the very thing away that makes this country, which I think is like the best branded product on earth, America, the idea of America. We have got to make sure that we don't take away from this country, like what is really, really good about it. And when I think about my journey, I am like, how does it get better? Like, how does it get better than someone who comes here and can do that and can have that journey? I just like, I thank God every day that I came here.

Speaker 4:
[52:12] That's well said.

Speaker 2:
[52:13] And I, no, very well said. And, you know, we have a lot of European friends and a lot of the sentiment from many of them now, if they don't come from generational wealth or big families, is that it's just so hard to say that. And one thing that a friend of ours said, he's a French guy, and he said, in America, everybody believes that you can make a bigger pie. Like, we could all figure something out and you make something bigger. In Europe, everyone's very like, on your own, don't want to partner, don't want to, they just, it's a different mentality.

Speaker 3:
[52:39] People are open for business here. That's the big difference. I came here, and people are willing to listen to your idea. They're willing to take a chance on you. None of that, like, you know, stuff that sometimes stays with you is as much as a problem here. Now, listen, we all know this country is full of systemic issues. Like, it's undeniable. But what I'm saying is for the most part, there is a lot of opportunity here. And if you put yourself in the right position, then there is a lot of advantage to actually being here. Actually, we have to stop complaining about because it's not like that in the rest of the world.

Speaker 4:
[53:15] How do you stay humble with how much success you've had?

Speaker 3:
[53:20] I don't. No, no, I'm joking.

Speaker 4:
[53:21] I'm all, what? I think so.

Speaker 3:
[53:23] I was joking. I was joking.

Speaker 4:
[53:25] I feel like the you I've met today and the you I met, I don't know if it was four or five years ago. That's refreshing too. How do you stay humble?

Speaker 3:
[53:35] Because I always believe that it's not mine. Everything can go away tomorrow and you always have to stay one step ahead and you always have to remember where you came from and you have to work really hard. But I'm not so arrogant to think that this doesn't all go away and that something better doesn't come and take my place. So I don't know. I am a really simple, straightforward person. I'm me in every room I walk into and I think that actually that's really a huge benefit to me. It's like I don't shape shift because I don't have to. I'm just me and I'm pretty consistent and I'm always working wherever I am. It's like I'm always going to try the hardest. I'm always going to be the nicest. I'm always going to work the most. I'm always going to try to be excellent because that is what's worked for me so far. I don't see any reason to change that. You know what's so crazy to me? On this book tour, I have met three journalists that used to work for me. Three. Three people that in some way, shape or form have crossed my paths and worked in my companies before. It's so cool because to me it's like, oh, they remember me as, yes, somebody who had like insane and sometimes impossible standards, but they learned a lot from me and they liked me and I treated them well. And that says a lot. Like one of the things that when you don't have much, you have to understand what you have is your reputation. Like that shit means something. So how you treat people, how you leave people feeling like that stuff really matters. So when you don't have a lot, which is like where I started, it's like you can take that, you can take your reputation and build on it and build on it and build on it. And that you'll never lose, rightly or wrongly, right? And hopefully it serves you. But I think the way that I have come up, actually has really served me well, because people know I have really good intentions and they know I'm a good girl.

Speaker 4:
[55:26] We all have a Lululemon story, don't we? I feel like we all can pinpoint when we discovered the brand. For me, it was years ago. I want to say, gosh, I was in like high school and I just would always go to the Lululemon in Carlsbad and shop in person and get all the different colors and the black leggings. I remember I was infatuated with the leggings because they lifted my butt and they were just, made everything look so flattered. Recently, I went out and I bought their drapey yoga jogger. Why I'm obsessed with this is I needed something that fit a little loose and that was drapey with room to breathe. Because sometimes I'll go from the cold plunge in sauna straight to the gym. I didn't want something that was really tight. I found this jogger in store. It's made with Rulu, which is Lululemon's ultra soft four-way stretch fabric. And what I like about this pant, you guys, is it keeps it shapewear after wear. So even when I wear it or I wash it, it still is like this luscious, delicious, buttery fabric that I really like. If you're looking for something that's as comfortable as a pair of tights, but with a little bit more ease and flow, this is for you. Check out the Woman's Rulu Drapey Yoga Draugr. You can't go wrong. I like to wear it with like a tight tank. I feel like it's very flattering. Here is the thing you need to know though. Lululemon does limited color runs. So when those new styles drop every Tuesday, they go fast. You don't want to wait. If it's not for you, Lululemon offers free returns, no risk. That's lululemon.com. New drops every Tuesday. Go now. lululemon.com. The prenatal that I used through all three of my pregnancies is the number one best selling prenatal. It is by Ritual. The reason that I chose this is they formulated essential prenatal with methylated folate. This is clinically proven to be well absorbed and demonstrated a more effective utilization of folate versus a leading prenatal with folic acid. It is crazy that leading prenatals are still using folic acid. If you guys don't know what I mean, listen to the episode with Gary Bracca. I like Ritual's essential prenatal because they're so meticulous about making sure they use that methylated folate that's so important during pregnancy. Another thing, one of my friends was always getting morning sickness during pregnancy and she switched her prenatal and she switched it to Ritual and it changed the game for her because Ritual is designed with morning sickness in mind. Mom's Taking Ritual reported that the essential prenatal is easier to swallow, gentler on the stomach and a better overall positive experience than those taking a leading prenatal. I am very happy with this prenatal so much that I recommend it to all my friends who are getting pregnant and now I'm recommending it to you. It's clinically backed and you know you're getting clean traceable ingredients like choline, folate and omega-3. You can't go wrong, okay? Don't settle for less than evidence-based support. Save 25% on your first month at ritual.com/skinny. That's ritual.com/skinny for 25% off your first month. T-shirts, jeans, my favorite place to go is Revolve. The reason that I go to Revolve for T-shirt and jeans is because they have the best options. It feels very curated but most importantly, I like how quick it comes. So I'll go on Revolve and I'll search white T-shirt and they truly have the best options. I pulled up some of my favorites for you guys so you could see exactly the ones that I like. There's one called Redone x Haines and it's the classic T. That is my ultimate. They also have a 90s ribbed cap sleeve by Redone on Revolve that I love too. You can't go wrong though just shopping on Revolve in general. There's so many options when it comes to cocktail dresses or shoes or accessories and they also carry the Skinny Confidential. So you could go on there. You could get a couple of Redone white tees. You could get some great jeans. I'm a big fan of AG Gold and Citizens of Humanity. They have some really good options, especially right now. And then you could grab some Skinny Confidential products. So if you want to be efficient and quick, you can go on Revolve. You can shop the hot list. You can grab some jeans, some t-shirts, some cocktail dresses, and then hit the Skinny Confidential section and get all the things delivered straight to you. What I like to do is order multiple options. So we'll order a bunch of white t-shirts, some jeans, and then I'll try it on. And if something doesn't fit, the shipping and returns make it so easy. Revolve is my go-to when I don't feel like overthinking it. Everything is styled in a way that makes sense, so it already feels curated. Revolve's Festival Shop is now open. So it's basically your go-to for festival season. They have everything designed for festivals, but also works for trips, long weekends and nights out. Whether it's a big night out, a wedding, a trip, or you just need something last minute that actually works, Revolve always has it. Go to revolve.com/skinny to shop our faves and use code skinny for 15% off your first order. And definitely check out the Festival Shop while you're there. Fast shipping, easy returns, it just makes everything easier. That's revolve.com/skinny so you can shop our faves and get 15% off your first order. Offer ends May 1st, so don't miss out. Introducing the Skinny Confidential Ice Roller. Reimagined. Think sleeker lines, a softer pink, a custom buttery dust bag, and a silver roller, not pink anymore, that is ice colds. I wanted to do a zhuzh on the iconic ice roller. I wanted to update it. This ice roller for me has always been more than just a tool. It's about helping us de-puff and sculpt and calm the skin in a way that feels intentional. And I wanted the ice roller to feel evolved. It's changed. You've changed. So yes, the new gorgeous, stunning, beautiful ice roller is still going to do the same things. It reduces puffiness and redness in your face. I used it this morning before I put on my makeup. It definitely helps with the under eye bags. Of course, it helps boost circulation and radiance. I just feel like it really helps stimulate blood flow and gives me that tighter, more radiant skin. And then it also is known to give you a smoother, tighter-looking skin. So what I like to do is I like to combine facial massage with cold therapy. And this really helps give you a really nice foundation before you even apply your skincare. This ice roller for me is a full circle moment. I think that a lot of you bought the ice roller, you know, five, six years ago when we launched it. And now I am launching something that feels more in alignment with where you're at. It's so beautiful, you guys. Like it's just softer and more effortless in every way. And I really put my own touches on every single little step from the packaging to the colors, to how it feels to even the roller. It's all been elevated just for you. So the ritual, the Lauryn ritual is you do cold therapy to help fight inflammation. You roll it, you glide it across your face. I put it on my jawline, my neck, I roll it down. Your skin is just going to appear smoother and tighter before you go in for the kill with the skincare and the makeup. Don't skip the cold therapy. The new Ice Roller is an upgrade designed to meet the standards of today. And I hope you guys love it as much as I do. This is the beauty tool that started it all, redesigned to evolve with you. I'm showing it on YouTube too, if you're on YouTube, if you're seeing me visually. Get it Why It's Hot at shopskinnyconfidential.com. That's shopskinnyconfidential.com.

Speaker 2:
[63:22] I remember years ago, Jillian Michaels came on the show. It's a strange example.

Speaker 3:
[63:25] Yeah, strange example.

Speaker 2:
[63:27] She basically was like, listen, not everyone's going to like me, not everyone's going to agree with me. I'm going to rub a lot of people the wrong way. But I'm going to be exactly who she is, so that nobody's questioning where I stand and who I am.

Speaker 3:
[63:37] Fair, fair.

Speaker 2:
[63:38] And I think what's a struggle for a lot of people, especially if they're front-facing, is there's a facade and they try to keep it up for a long time. Maybe they're not treating people well, they're not treating their team well, they're doing things behind the... And then that shit comes out and it's like...

Speaker 3:
[63:51] It's a disaster.

Speaker 2:
[63:52] It always comes out.

Speaker 3:
[63:53] It's a disaster.

Speaker 4:
[63:54] It always comes out.

Speaker 3:
[63:55] By the way, it always comes out. Who does it not come out for? It always comes out.

Speaker 2:
[64:00] But when she told us that, I was like, okay, well then the blueprint is you just got to be who you are, say what you think and be honest about that and you're not going to win everybody, but at least you don't have to fake it and try to keep it up.

Speaker 3:
[64:10] Totally.

Speaker 2:
[64:10] It's not sustainable.

Speaker 4:
[64:11] Through writing this book, you must have gotten a lot of DMs and women coming up to you. What are some old thoughts that you call them, that people have come up to you with?

Speaker 3:
[64:21] All the time this happens, people imagine that you can network your way into some possibility.

Speaker 4:
[64:28] You can't.

Speaker 3:
[64:29] You cannot. Literally, you cannot. This idea of not being invited, not getting into the right conferences, not sitting on the right panels, not being at the right table, it's just, and it is rife in the world of female entrepreneurship. And so you have to understand that is not a thing. It is just not a thing. I also really get frustrated when I think about women and money and our inability to put money in the center of our plans. We spoke about this when we last met, but that, women that are giving their services away for free. I had this lady DM me and say, every Sunday, she does a Pilates, she's a Pilates instructor and she does like a Pilates instruction class. And she does them for free because it's about the good vibes and the energy. And I'm like, what the fuck are the vibes and the energy? Girl, that is your time. That is your skill. You have earned the right to be here and you need to charge people for it. There's nothing wrong with that. There really is nothing wrong with it. But somehow we get trapped in these ideas that to be good, to be a good woman, we have to like, you know, be, I don't know, like think about things in a way that is just like, you know, not about charging and, you know, it's all about the energy and it's all about what you put out. It's like no one is coming to pick you out of obscurity and say, I actually have a hot take.

Speaker 4:
[65:48] I actually find, and this is my own life, so take it or leave it, that networking is a waste of time for me. I, if I have time to put towards my business, networking is not on the list.

Speaker 3:
[66:03] Well, this is, so here's the thing, right? Yes, I agree with you. I think what people have mixed up is networking and building a network to get shit done. You need a network, right? You need the manager, the agent, the publicist, the lawyer, the manager, the thing, the thing, the thing. That is your network, the bank manager, the vendor, the factory, that like, that is the network. Not like networking, not some other bitch that's doing what you're doing. She's not helpful.

Speaker 4:
[66:30] You're putting the badge on and you're going to...

Speaker 3:
[66:32] No, the badge.

Speaker 4:
[66:33] Forget the badge.

Speaker 3:
[66:34] If you've got a badge, don't like... That's not the thing. I can guarantee you, if it comes with a badge, it's not worth your time. Let's just say that, right? If you have to have a badge, you have to sit on the panel. If you have to put makeup on to do it, forget about it. Like that's not the thing. But your relationships, your credibility, your reputation, like that network that you're building, that's worth something. Because when shit hits the fan in my business, I can call people up and go, hey, I need the following thing. That's useful. That's my network at work. And that you do need to be effective in business.

Speaker 4:
[67:04] This is why I think it's a good idea for young entrepreneurs to start a podcast. Because if you're networking on a podcast, at least you're also giving someone the gift of a platform. And you're also yourself on your own platform making content. So if you want to, I feel like there's strategic ways to network without putting the badge on.

Speaker 3:
[67:25] Yeah, listen, there's so many ways to do it. You know, I came up working for free back in the days when you were able to hire people and they would come and do work experiences for you. That was so valuable for me because I went around finding all of the jobs that I didn't want to do. But I also made a bunch of contacts. And every now and again, you know, I will meet someone and they're like, oh, like I met you when you were at that PR company in the cupboard. And I'm like, yeah, so you did. And you are an asshole. And by the way, I'm not going to do business with you. Or you were really wonderful and now like thank you. And I'd love to do something together. So it's like there's so many different ways. But let me tell you what you can't get around. You can't get around the work, right? You cannot get around the work. That is just a prerequisite for success. And there is times in your life when you are going to go like 150% and there's times in your life, like you're just nine months away from having a baby, where you might have to take your foot off the pedal for a few months and be like, I have different priorities now. Your life happens in seasons. Your work life and your career happens in seasons. And that's okay. But this idea that somehow you're going to circumvent the work and somehow I found an extra hour in the day and there is some unlock or some secret, like that is not going to happen ever.

Speaker 4:
[68:38] I know you said like you do like manifesting, but you don't spend a ton of time on it. What is your actual manifestation practice and vision board practice as Emma?

Speaker 3:
[68:48] Okay, so I'm going to really beat this one to death.

Speaker 4:
[68:52] Beat it.

Speaker 3:
[68:52] Beat it to death. So I think that having a vision for yourself is different from vision boarding a manifestation. So when I talk about this idea of having a vision for the type of life you want, for the type of person you want to be, for the type of mom, the boss, the thing, that is about thinking about what do I want my life to be?

Speaker 4:
[69:16] Are you writing down the vision everywhere?

Speaker 3:
[69:17] I am planning and writing it and all of the things. And so the reason I'm saying yes to manifestation, absolutely, like imagine it, but be concrete. Don't write, I want to have a million dollar house, like figure out how to make a million dollars.

Speaker 4:
[69:32] You want the systems.

Speaker 3:
[69:33] You've got to have the systems, you've got to have the steps and you've got to understand what it actually takes. And so thinking about it, listening to all the podcasts, like going and watching the experts, like that's not going to work. You have to put yourself in motion. You have to do the action. You've got to be that person who's going to take a little bit of risk and meet your fear and actually do the thing. That's what I mean. It's like, so it's like you have to, once you've got a vision for yourself, you then got to break that down and say, well, how? What next? How do I? You can't like sit there and be like, I'm waiting because no one's coming to save you. Like literally no one is coming. Do you know what I mean? Like no one's coming.

Speaker 4:
[70:15] Oh, I know what you mean.

Speaker 3:
[70:16] So you've got to get up. But that's the very idea of starting with yourself. It's like, how do I activate the muscle for self-leadership? How do I become the type of person that I would admire? Like that is all within your control. That isn't about systems. That's not about the outside. That's about like, what type of woman am I?

Speaker 2:
[70:36] No, but I mean, like even like running a company, I'm sure you've seen this, somebody will come and be like, I am ready to be on the executive team, but I would like a hybrid work environment with these hours.

Speaker 4:
[70:46] Don't even get her started on this. We know. You're not a hybrid person.

Speaker 2:
[70:49] But I want to look at these people. Listen, everyone should be able to do and work how they want to work. But if you're saying that you want this outcome and you're doing this behavior that doesn't map to that outcome that other people in that role do, you're not going to manifest your way to it. And it's not realistic.

Speaker 3:
[71:06] Can we talk about it? Because again, listen, we all know the comment that I said and we all know apparently it was like this terrible thing. But I want to kind of dissect it a little bit.

Speaker 4:
[71:14] I actually don't know what you mean.

Speaker 3:
[71:14] Oh, you don't know. When I spoke about work-life balance, right? It's like work-life balance is your problem. That's what I said and that's what I got.

Speaker 4:
[71:21] Why is that controversial?

Speaker 3:
[71:22] I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. But it is and it was. But let's just talk about it outside of the context of just purely work, right? Because if you want to be successful, proximity and visibility is a must, right? To the decision makers, to what's happening, to the pace of like the business. You got to be there. Like if you're not within my vicinity, you're not going to see how I move.

Speaker 2:
[71:45] I can't recognize one. I can't recognize. I can't distinguish their face if I just meet them on a computer. I can't do it.

Speaker 3:
[71:51] Are you giving them a pay rise if you can't distinguish them?

Speaker 2:
[71:53] No, but I can't.

Speaker 3:
[71:53] Exactly.

Speaker 2:
[71:55] I come in and like it's me and I'm like, I can't tell. I have to see you and feel you and your energy.

Speaker 3:
[71:59] And know you.

Speaker 2:
[72:00] I'm not touching people.

Speaker 3:
[72:00] And know you. You know what I mean.

Speaker 2:
[72:01] I have to be able to see.

Speaker 3:
[72:02] Facts.

Speaker 2:
[72:03] I can't.

Speaker 3:
[72:03] Put your hands down. Stop doing that. Stop doing that. Stop doing that. I have to see you and feel you. Put your hands down.

Speaker 2:
[72:09] HR. HR.

Speaker 4:
[72:10] I can't say anything nowadays.

Speaker 2:
[72:12] I mean, it's like screen blindness. When I see a million little things on a screen, I can't and then someone comes in and it's like, it's me. I'm like, I'm sorry. It's hard. You know, but if I met you in person and spent time, it's a totally different thing.

Speaker 3:
[72:22] It's a totally different thing. But I want to take it away from the context of just work because I think that what's happened in this search for balance, which by the way, I talk about so much in the book, it's the wrong goal. You're not actually looking for balance. And when we talk about this idea of what it means to have flexibility and work from home, of course, I understand that people need that. But if you remove yourself from in-person life, if you're working from your living room and you're getting all your food delivered and you're living in social media land, you take out all of the amazingness of life. I met my husband at work. I met some of my best friends at work. So forget this part of getting ahead and getting pay increase and having this rat race of a career. It's like, what about your life? What about the guy that you might meet in the coffee shop, that you're going to dress extra cute for tomorrow because you're like, oh my God, maybe you'll be there. What about the little interaction that you have with the lady in the store? Forget about that piece. We are in a moment right now. Birth rates are down, marriage rates are down. There's a loneliness epidemic in the world.

Speaker 2:
[73:29] Remember I said this on the show to that woman and she almost walked off the show?

Speaker 3:
[73:32] Oh well, we're not going to walk off. But you know, it's like when you think about what work and proximity gives you, it gives you a life, it gives you connection. And by the way, every single study that's out there about longevity will tell you, the number one thing that we need in life as humans for longevity is connection. So even if you don't want to go to work and be in the office, leave the house, because you need people. And you need people to like live and you need people to thrive and you need people to fall in love with. And you can't get any of that on a fucking Zoom.

Speaker 2:
[74:04] Yeah, agreed.

Speaker 4:
[74:06] I won't even go on screen on a Zoom. I'd rather meet in person. It's so much more effective.

Speaker 2:
[74:11] If you follow Scott Galloway at all.

Speaker 3:
[74:14] I love Scott Galloway.

Speaker 2:
[74:16] He's been on this show and we were talking about alcohol earlier and how a lot of young people are just not drinking as much. We're ashamed. Yeah, we know it's bad for us, but he was saying that doing it in the social interactions you have and the inability that comes from being a young person going out is actually maybe better for you than just abdicating from alcohol in general and not having those interactions.

Speaker 3:
[74:35] Totally. Now, what are we living for? At the end of the day, you want to be like 85, alive and miserable. It's like, I'd rather have a couple of drinks, have a great time and die at 77.

Speaker 2:
[74:46] That's a very specific number.

Speaker 3:
[74:47] 77. Not before that.

Speaker 4:
[74:49] Let's say 97. Whatever the number is, but it's like, you don't, what I, how many years is that going to be married to if I'm 97?

Speaker 3:
[74:57] Oh, that's a lot of years. That's a lot of years.

Speaker 2:
[75:02] That's like 50 more to go.

Speaker 4:
[75:04] No longer.

Speaker 2:
[75:04] It's like almost 60.

Speaker 4:
[75:05] Out of all the amazing experts and celebrities and famous people that you know, because you know a lot of different people.

Speaker 3:
[75:15] I've been around.

Speaker 4:
[75:15] What is the most sound, amazing advice that one of them has given you that's really resonated?

Speaker 3:
[75:23] Oh, there have been so many good bits. You know, first of all, like I'm obsessed with Mark Cuban. I feel like the reason I did, I love Mark.

Speaker 4:
[75:33] Okay. So he's like, he's the vibes.

Speaker 3:
[75:36] He's the vibes. Because he's the real deal. Like he's another person who, wherever you see Mark, if you're filming Shark Tank or I, you know, like bump into him at South by Southwest or, you know, like whatever it is, a basketball game is where I usually see him. You know, where he literally is interacting with the players and the referee in real time. I'm like, oh my God, did he just speak to the player like mid game? But Mark is someone who I find, like he doesn't change. He's such an authentic person. And when he talks about raising money and he calls it an obligation, there's no truer thing said. We've really romanticized what it means to go out and raise capital. And what Mark says is like, it's an obligation. Suddenly, you are obligated to somebody else and your company and the decisions are no longer your own. And I wish more people heard that because again, this idea that to be a successful business, that everything has to be a billion dollar unicorn, like that's not so. I have friends that have like a lovely business, they employ five people, they pay themselves a good wage. And like that's an amazing company, if you ask me. Like we've got to get out of this idea that everything needs to be like so big and so crazy. So I love Mark for that. I love Melody Hobson, who is like my girl crush, amazingness. Melody is incredible. She was the first ever episode of my podcast. And she is this incredible, she actually runs a big private equity fund and does a lot of big investments, like billions and billions and billions of dollars under management. And she spoke about when like coming into a situation with honesty, and she said, but it never needs to be brutal honesty. I can give you honesty without being brutal. And I think that's really important because when you're building a company, like everything feels so personal. But if you're not honest with yourself, you're not honest with the people around you, like you actually won't go very far. But there is never a reason to be nasty. And I think that when you think about like what it takes and how much you're going to need people, like being a good, a decent person, like having a high moral baseline is actually one of the most important things that you can do in business. And it really serves you because it comes back to you over and over.

Speaker 4:
[77:47] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[77:47] And you learn that the older you get because you realize that if you burn your reputation down quickly, you're not going to have much longevity. You see people come and go all the time, especially in this media space.

Speaker 4:
[77:58] Start With Yourself, A New Vision for Work and Life. Who needs this book?

Speaker 3:
[78:03] You know, I think that so many people need it. I wrote the book that I needed at 18, at 25, even in my early 30s. There's a lot of business books out there. There's a lot of business books that are written by men, not nearly enough by women, but certainly not by high school dropouts who are moms of four. And so I've wanted to kind of add my collective perspective to the wisdom that's out there. And I really think that there's, you know, you don't have to be a woman. I think that there is a lot to gain from this book, and there's a lot of understanding to be had. But I wanted to write something that people can use, not that they will just read. It was supposed to be something that you read a chapter and you go out and do something with it. And that's what I care about the most. I'm like a results-orientated person. I want women specifically to take this and to use it to get somewhere.

Speaker 4:
[78:53] So much of our audience are people who are looking to be the best version of themselves. I would recommend this book, you guys. I know I highlighted a lot. I was bookmarking it, marking pages in my edition. What's the edition called before the book?

Speaker 3:
[79:07] The Galley.

Speaker 4:
[79:08] The Galley.

Speaker 3:
[79:08] The papery edition.

Speaker 4:
[79:10] The paper. And then I accosted your team to get me a new one.

Speaker 3:
[79:13] Well, you've got to have the nice version.

Speaker 4:
[79:16] Also, I know this is like random, but it really looks pretty, too. It's something that you want out on your desk.

Speaker 3:
[79:23] That's typical for me. I went with the publisher who would allow me not to have my face on it.

Speaker 4:
[79:29] I think that's very smart. Not that we don't love your face.

Speaker 3:
[79:33] I mean, I don't want my face on the book.

Speaker 4:
[79:35] No, I like that.

Speaker 3:
[79:35] I wanted it to be like, you know, you could put it on your coffee table, on your desk. It's like a shit thing.

Speaker 2:
[79:40] Nothing is done without reason.

Speaker 4:
[79:42] Always. It's intention, baby. Emma, three and a half times on the show. Everyone go follow, go get your book. Where can they get it? Amazon, I'm assuming.

Speaker 3:
[79:51] They can get it on Amazon. They can get it on emmagrede.com, all the places. And of course, I did the audio book, which was...

Speaker 2:
[79:59] See, that's the move. When people pitch their audio book and they haven't done it, and that's that robot voice.

Speaker 3:
[80:03] Oh, no, like, fuck that. I mean, seriously, do you need my voice?

Speaker 4:
[80:06] You need your voice.

Speaker 3:
[80:07] You need my voice. Also, who could do this in this voice?

Speaker 4:
[80:11] Do your kids have the accent?

Speaker 3:
[80:12] No, they're Americans now. They say like, wait, what? And I'm like, oh, my God, they're Californians.

Speaker 4:
[80:19] Oh, my gosh. I thought you were going to say there's a little accent.

Speaker 3:
[80:22] No, they're not a sausage. It's all gone. I'm the only one. I'm just holding the accent up for the whole family.

Speaker 4:
[80:27] And your podcast, where can everyone find you?

Speaker 3:
[80:29] Aspire with Emma Grede. I have to tell you guys, I love doing the podcast. It's one of my favorite. It's so much fun. And it's also like, you know, I get to ask the best questions. It's like, I just want to understand how everybody makes money. I'm like, tell me everything.

Speaker 4:
[80:45] I'm glad you launched one because I could have used your podcast. I feel like I wish you launched the podcast ten years ago.

Speaker 3:
[80:50] Right. I know.

Speaker 4:
[80:51] It's OK, though. It's OK.

Speaker 3:
[80:53] It's all meant to be.

Speaker 4:
[80:54] It's happening now.

Speaker 3:
[80:55] I'm like, it's so funny that you say that. Like, I love it so much.

Speaker 4:
[80:59] Not everyone.

Speaker 3:
[80:59] Almost like the first.

Speaker 2:
[81:00] It's been like marriage therapy for us. I swear, because sometimes we have people on that we don't like. Maybe we're not talking about our specific issue, but they're saying something that we're both.

Speaker 4:
[81:07] Yes.

Speaker 3:
[81:07] And you learn and you're like firing. And that's what happens. But I am really trying to be, again, very purposeful because I want a podcast that people can come and learn from. And again, it's like you don't get to come and promote your thing there. It's like you got to come to play. Like I need to know how you did the thing, how much you spent on it, how much did you pay the lawyer, like how much did you raise average? No, no. It's like the opposite. And it's like if you're not ready to come and do that, then like don't come. But I have the best guests and I have the most fun doing it.

Speaker 4:
[81:38] I told you I like the one with Kelly.

Speaker 3:
[81:40] Oh, with Kelly Wurstler? She's amazing. She's eclectic. I love her. What a woman. She has a giant, giant business. And she's beautiful and she's so talented and she's creative.

Speaker 4:
[81:51] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[81:51] Full package woman.

Speaker 4:
[81:52] Congratulations. Thank you for coming on the show.

Speaker 2:
[81:55] Thank you, Emma, for doing it again.

Speaker 4:
[81:56] That was great.

Speaker 2:
[81:56] For the fourth, third, third and a half.

Speaker 4:
[81:58] I have to be honest though. And we can keep this in the recording though. I love them all. This one was my favorite.

Speaker 3:
[82:04] It was? I'm happy not to. I mean, listen, we're deep in it now. I don't know what I'm going to have to do to get back on one day. It's going to have to be like a fifth baby or like something. Let's go.

Speaker 4:
[82:18] It's another business.

Speaker 3:
[82:19] Guess what? It will be chic as fuck. It will be aesthetic.

Speaker 2:
[82:23] Thank you, Emma.

Speaker 3:
[82:24] Thank you, darling.