transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:00] Sword and Scale contains adult themes and violence, and is not intended for all audiences. Listener discretion is advised.

Speaker 2:
[00:12] You guys came in here and are instantly hostile. Why? I don't know. Look, this is my life here, this is my life.

Speaker 1:
[00:22] It is.

Speaker 2:
[00:22] It's on the line here.

Speaker 3:
[00:23] Right.

Speaker 2:
[00:24] Now, I didn't do anything to hurt anybody else's life, and yes, I have a reason to feel the way I feel.

Speaker 4:
[00:40] Austin, Texas is known for its music, its culture and its easy charm. But on the gray November morning of 2001, that trauma didn't reach the Travis County Sheriff's Office. In a small interview room, detectives sat across from a middle-aged woman and told her something that she could have never imagined.

Speaker 3:
[01:03] Okay, let's talk a little bit about where we're going with all this. Have you noticed the signs on the building we came in?

Speaker 5:
[01:13] I figured it was, aren't we in homicide?

Speaker 3:
[01:17] We're investigating a murder. I'm trying to figure out why your van would be in Austin. We have several witnesses that have described a man driving this van.

Speaker 4:
[01:37] The detectives told the woman that they suspected her van-driving husband was a murderer. She claimed this news frightened her, yet her demeanor remained unnervingly calm, cold, and composed.

Speaker 5:
[01:52] It's like I'm living in a dream right now, because it's up until I met him, I just I didn't have any contact with the law other than I guess I don't want to believe this that it's even happening. But I am very scared.

Speaker 4:
[02:11] This interview was just one piece of a much larger investigation, one that centered on a 43-year-old woman named Diane Holik.

Speaker 6:
[02:21] Let's talk a little bit about Diane's work. She works for IVM and she doesn't, does she work out of an office or does she work out of her home?

Speaker 7:
[02:29] She worked out of her home.

Speaker 6:
[02:30] Okay. And how long has Diane worked for IVM?

Speaker 7:
[02:32] God, 24 years.

Speaker 6:
[02:35] What does she do exactly for IVM?

Speaker 7:
[02:37] She, IVM is very specialized. They have managers for people going to the bathroom. She managed people that were reaching their second year in IVM and she was developing programs for them to procure development.

Speaker 4:
[02:55] By 2001, Diane had spent many years working as a supervisor at IVM, helping guide new employees through their training. She took pride in her job, but her greatest joy came from something outside of the office, her two dogs.

Speaker 7:
[03:12] Diane and those dogs were...

Speaker 6:
[03:14] That's what I heard, that they were her life.

Speaker 8:
[03:16] Very, very tight.

Speaker 4:
[03:18] Diane lived alone with her two dogs, but she wasn't without company. She never lacked attention from men. She was attractive, full of life, and she had the kind of personality that drew people in. She'd been married twice and divorced twice as well.

Speaker 6:
[03:35] I saw some wedding pictures.

Speaker 7:
[03:37] She was married twice before, once for, I think, four years, again, only for like four months. Some jerk, I guess, that, you know, just totally took advantage of her.

Speaker 4:
[03:51] After her second divorce, Diane signed up for a dating service, the kind where you filled out forms, not a profile. It was the early 2000s, it was a different time. There was no Tinder and Facebook didn't exist yet. The service eventually matched Diane with a 45-year-old man who worked in the computer industry, a Houston business owner named Dennis Conley.

Speaker 6:
[04:15] How long have you known Diane? When did you, how did you guys meet?

Speaker 7:
[04:18] We met through the dating service. It's just lunch about 13 months ago.

Speaker 6:
[04:26] That's the name of the dating service?

Speaker 7:
[04:27] It's just lunch. Yeah, you have to pay to join and it's like, I mean, it's not a computer thing or anything like that. They've tried to match you up.

Speaker 6:
[04:40] I take it you guys hit it off pretty good?

Speaker 7:
[04:41] Yeah, we did immediately.

Speaker 4:
[04:44] Diane and Dennis's relationship was a classic fool's rush in scenario. Things got serious fast, too fast. Before long, they were already talking about moving in together and getting married.

Speaker 7:
[04:57] We met each other on the 5th of October last year. We both agreed that we would move to Houston because we got engaged, I believe, around like the middle of December. We both knew it was kind of crazy, but I was just totally happy.

Speaker 4:
[05:18] Within two months of meeting, Diane and Dennis were engaged in planning a fresh start, which included a new home in Houston and a new life together. But it didn't take long for the cracks to show. Like many whirlwind romances, the couple started to realize they might not be as compatible as they first thought.

Speaker 7:
[05:41] Like March, everything was going pretty good, and then we ran into some rough spots. We were going to build a house in Houston, and I decided that, you know, given the fact that we weren't getting along together very well, I mean, there was no fight. I mean, we don't fight, it's just, you know, everybody carries baggage into your relationships at this age, and our baggage was clashing, and we were working on it, but we decided not to be engaged anymore. But steadily, I mean, we've been to therapy together, and I mean, we were really, really making breakthroughs, you know, and in fact, you know, I was going to ask her to marry me again over Thanksgiving while we were out with my parents.

Speaker 4:
[06:23] They kept trying to make it work, and eventually Diane decided she would still move to Houston and live with Dennis.

Speaker 6:
[06:30] And she, when did she decide to sell her home?

Speaker 7:
[06:35] When she started looking at places in Houston about, I'm going to say a month ago. But the plan was, you know, she was going to sell that and move in with me.

Speaker 4:
[06:46] As Diane prepared to move, she put her house up on the market. But the news of her move didn't sit well with another man in her life. Someone who didn't want to see her go.

Speaker 7:
[06:57] Has anybody gotten hold of Ray?

Speaker 6:
[06:59] No, we're trying to figure out who Ray is. We've heard about Ray. How old is he?

Speaker 7:
[07:04] He's like 30 something. He just got out of the Army. He's very, very, very smart. He's probably one of the smartest programmers that IBM has. He's very, very smart. But he's out there. He's on the edge.

Speaker 4:
[07:18] 30 year old Ray Clancy worked with Diane at IBM. In fact, she had hired him. And over time, they had become very close friends.

Speaker 6:
[07:29] Some people said you guys were pretty close.

Speaker 9:
[07:30] We were very close.

Speaker 10:
[07:32] I know Diane better than most people in the town. I watched her house for the last couple of years, her dogs. I have keys to everything she's got. I drive through her openers. Of course, it doesn't work right now.

Speaker 7:
[07:41] They have known each other since I think Diane's been here. He's from Louisiana.

Speaker 6:
[07:49] What was their relationship? Did they date at one time?

Speaker 7:
[07:51] I don't know. It was a very odd relationship because...

Speaker 6:
[07:55] What does that... Explain that to me. What does that mean?

Speaker 7:
[07:56] Like, in other words, the way Diane described it to me, he seemed to worship the ground she walks on.

Speaker 4:
[08:08] Ray liked Diane a lot. And while Diane didn't feel the same way, she valued his friendship. Ray often offered to help her with things around the house or to watch her dogs when she was away. It wasn't romantic, but everyone who knew about their relationship thought it was a little unusual.

Speaker 10:
[08:33] I'll fix everything in her house that was broken. I'm a fix-it man, too. You can do about anything in the house. So anytime she had to repair in the house, I did it for her, helped her out. Almost everything, put new locks on the doors and all that kind of good stuff. Because the house came with...

Speaker 6:
[08:45] I mean, I weren't dating.

Speaker 10:
[08:46] Because she didn't want to date a younger guy. She didn't want to, because I want six kids. She doesn't want a kid.

Speaker 6:
[08:50] Oh, my Lord.

Speaker 7:
[08:52] Okay, John, I got kids.

Speaker 6:
[08:52] We're going to have six kids in this day and age?

Speaker 7:
[08:55] Yeah, he watches the dogs, so it's great to have somebody to watch the dogs. And he did. The dogs were crazy about him, and he did take good care of him. And he did lots of stuff around the house for her. You know, he fixed her garage door like in new mobile times. And my whole thing was, hey, he seems like a nice guy, Diane. Geez, he's watching your dogs and he's fixing your stuff. He seems pretty harmless, so why don't you just lighten up on him? And for a long time, up until that last falling out, that appeared to be the case.

Speaker 4:
[09:25] For all his effort, Diane had firmly planted Ray in the friend zone, and everyone seemed to know it except him. Eventually, he and Diane had a falling out. He stopped returning her calls as quickly and became less eager to help with the little things. Then a few weeks later, Diane missed an important employee meeting at IBM.

Speaker 6:
[09:50] Diane had not made an appointment or done whatever business she was supposed to do on Friday. That's when she became concerned. And that's when she called the police department.

Speaker 4:
[10:00] After Diane missed this meeting, one of her coworkers requested a police welfare check. When officers arrived at her home, no one answered the door. They went inside and eventually found Diane's lifeless body.

Speaker 10:
[10:15] Did they know where they found her? Listen, did they let her in the bedroom?

Speaker 6:
[10:18] Yeah, she was in the upstairs bedroom with the... where the, um...

Speaker 10:
[10:22] She never goes upstairs, ever.

Speaker 4:
[10:25] Diane was found on the floor of the upstairs bedroom. She was fully clothed and had been brutally strangled to death. There were no signs of what led up to it. No argument, no forced entry, no warning at all. And no sign of how the killer had managed to disappear without a trace.

Speaker 6:
[10:47] I can tell you that it was ruled a homicide by a strangulation, okay? And I won't give you any of the other details.

Speaker 4:
[11:03] Dennis claimed that he couldn't understand why anyone would want to hurt Diane. But detectives weren't so sure he was being honest. Not just about Diane's murder, but about their relationship in general. Much of what he told them about how they got along screamed of minimization. At the same time, detectives were equally puzzled by Diane's friend, Ray Clancy, a man who seemed to orbit her life long after she'd made it clear she wasn't interested. His behavior, his access to her home, and his attitude after her death all raised red flags. Between the two of them, detectives couldn't shake the feeling that one was hiding something. The challenge was figuring out where the truth stopped and where the lie started. On November 15, 2001, 43-year-old Diane Holik was at her Northwest Austin home, preparing for a move that would mark the next chapter of her life. But by the following morning, she was dead, found strangled in an upstairs bedroom of her home. In the days that followed, detectives started piecing together the timeline of her final hours. They processed her house and collected evidence.

Speaker 6:
[12:55] We have the house sealed for right now, and we're going to keep it that way until we gather a lot more information, trying to focus in on the things that are important. Obviously, we've done a lot of the forensic, most of the forensic stuff.

Speaker 4:
[13:09] The crime scene was strange and ominous, not because of what was found, but because of what wasn't. Diane was discovered facedown on the floor of an upstairs bedroom. She was fully dressed with marks on her wrists consistent with being bound, and deep ligature marks around her neck. There were no signs of forced entry, no struggle, and nothing to suggest sexual assault. The scene was eerily clean. So clean, in fact, that even Diane's own fingerprints were missing from places police expected to find them.

Speaker 7:
[13:45] Was she raved?

Speaker 6:
[13:47] Doesn't appear so. We won't know obviously until all the test results come back, but doesn't appear she was fully clothed.

Speaker 4:
[13:56] As for suspects, detectives quickly focused on two men, her fiance Dennis Conley, and a coworker who by all accounts wished he was Diane's fiance. His name was Ray Clancy. When questioned, both men offered nearly identical statements about Diane and her background. They told police that Diane had no enemies, that everyone who knew her loved her.

Speaker 6:
[14:25] Can you think of anybody that wouldn't want to hurt Diane?

Speaker 7:
[14:27] Yeah, everybody loved her. Everybody that met her.

Speaker 10:
[14:31] Diane had no enemies, nobody that didn't like her. I don't know anybody who didn't like Diane. Her personality was fantastic.

Speaker 9:
[14:37] She was a gorgeous female person.

Speaker 4:
[14:40] Initially, investigators turned their attention to Dennis, but he looked clean, at least on paper. He had no criminal record and no history of violence.

Speaker 7:
[14:51] This is the first time I've ever been in a police station, other than when I was a legal officer in the Marine Corps and I took people there myself.

Speaker 4:
[15:01] According to Dennis, his last contact with Diane was on the afternoon of her death. They exchanged messages online during the workday, and Diane mentioned she may have found someone interested in buying her house.

Speaker 7:
[15:15] Yeah, she said somebody was really super interested in her house Thursday afternoon online. She goes, keep your fingers crossed. And she doesn't usually say that unless somebody is really interested. So one of the questions that I have for you, and you don't have to answer this, but I think may fit into this as well is, did she still have her engagement ring on? Because if she didn't, then that's what I think might have happened is somebody came in.

Speaker 6:
[15:43] Yeah, we need to talk about all her jewelry. I mean, there's going to be a lot of things we need to fire away. And that's why I needed you to really come down here. And I don't want to have to talk to you in front of all those people.

Speaker 7:
[15:53] I'm just upset.

Speaker 6:
[15:54] I understand that.

Speaker 4:
[15:56] One thing that stood out about Diane's interview was how eager he seemed to offer up theories, any theory about what might have happened to Diane. Maybe it was genuine speculation, or maybe it was a way to steer attention away from himself. One theory he floated was that Diane could have been showing her home to a potential buyer who noticed her engagement ring and decided to rob her. Maybe she fought back and things turned violent. Maybe this murder was a robbery gone wrong. Or maybe Dennis just wanted to make it look that way.

Speaker 6:
[16:35] Do you have a photograph of the ring or any information on that ring?

Speaker 7:
[16:39] I can get it.

Speaker 6:
[16:40] Okay. We're probably going to need it because we can't find the ring. My understanding was from Mrs. Brown, was that she always wore that ring.

Speaker 7:
[16:49] Yeah, she did and I told her, I told her, I said, when you go down to the park or whatever, you ought to not be flashing that thing around.

Speaker 6:
[16:59] What? It's a diamondite?

Speaker 7:
[17:01] It was a $20,000, I mean, it was a beautiful ring.

Speaker 6:
[17:06] Did you buy it for her?

Speaker 7:
[17:07] Yes, I did. She's so goddamn stubborn though, if they were trying to take the ring, I bet she fought tooth and nail for that.

Speaker 6:
[17:15] And certainly robbery is a motive, there's no doubt.

Speaker 7:
[17:18] I will tell you, she would have had that ring on. There's no doubt in my mind.

Speaker 6:
[17:23] Well, it's missing right now.

Speaker 11:
[17:24] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[17:25] Like Dennis, Ray also confirmed that Diane always wore her engagement ring. The obvious assumption was that whoever committed the murder had taken it.

Speaker 6:
[17:36] The ring.

Speaker 10:
[17:37] Three carat or something like that. It's a big one. I've never seen it without wearing it. I mean, I would always be able to ask her if you were breaking up behind you wearing a ring, but I never would. That's kind of insulting. I've never seen her take it off before, even whenever they were split apart in fighting, she never took it off.

Speaker 4:
[17:52] As for Dennis, if he was the killer, investigators had to consider possible motives. He'd admitted that his relationship with Diane wasn't perfect, but the problems he described seem pretty mild, especially for a couple that had recently called off their engagement. Perhaps things with Dennis and Diane were much worse than he was letting on.

Speaker 7:
[18:16] Yeah, we had our ups and downs, no question, but they weren't, you know, it wasn't like, it was very-

Speaker 4:
[18:19] No physical fights?

Speaker 7:
[18:20] Nothing, never. Never, never even angry or loud words.

Speaker 6:
[18:24] What were your big issues? Money?

Speaker 7:
[18:26] No, no.

Speaker 6:
[18:27] Other people in the relationship?

Speaker 7:
[18:29] No, it was just, it's stupid, you know, that's one of the things I think I'll learn out of this deal, is the little things aren't really that important. That's where I was getting to, too, but.

Speaker 4:
[18:40] According to Dennis, a major point of tension in their relationship was what he saw as Diane's obsession with her dogs. He wasn't thrilled about the idea of buying a new house together only to have the two large dogs tear it up. But for Diane, her dogs were her family. She referred to them as her kids, and they weren't negotiable.

Speaker 10:
[19:04] Mostly it was the dogs.

Speaker 11:
[19:05] Right.

Speaker 10:
[19:06] He hates, I won't say he hates the dogs, but he didn't have a doggy person. And she, in her mind, it was important for him to like the dogs. If he didn't like them, there was just two guys in bed, and he wouldn't be buying somebody else.

Speaker 4:
[19:19] Dennis told detectives that he did eventually come around. He realized that his issue with the dogs wasn't worth losing Diane.

Speaker 7:
[19:29] The thing that got me back and really cemented it was that, you know, she's, I remember her saying, you know, that she would, she loved me and that she would jump the chance to be in a relationship and marry me and, you know, no matter how long it took, and that really just settled in my heart, and I just said, you know, I'm not going to ever find anybody that loves me as much as she does, so.

Speaker 4:
[19:54] Dennis' version of the relationship was that he and Diane had worked through their rough patches. The engagement might have been called off, but he said things were improving, and that he planned to propose to her again.

Speaker 6:
[20:10] Did you guys, had you guys set a wedding date?

Speaker 7:
[20:12] No, but we talked about it last weekend. We were together here. We had a great weekend, no issues. You know, she goes, so when are we getting married? And I said, I'm thinking, you know, October, but, you know, next year, but we might move that off, you know, depending on how things go. Okay. So, yeah, I mean, we had not set a date, but then again, I hadn't officially asked her to marry me again, and I was going to say that for, you know, around the same time that I asked her last year, just kind of as a special friend.

Speaker 4:
[20:42] While keeping a close eye on Dennis, investigators also focused their attention on another man in Diane's life, her friend and coworker, and someone who clearly had feelings for her, Ray Clancy.

Speaker 6:
[20:56] And Ray, what's the deal with Ray?

Speaker 7:
[20:58] Okay, so Ray is a very dysfunctional person from my standpoint in the fact that he seems to be attracted to women that are not attracted to him.

Speaker 4:
[21:12] Ray freely admitted that he had romantic feelings for Diane, but he denied that his willingness to help her, watching her dogs, fixing things around her house, had anything to do with that. He said he was simply trying to repay her for bending a few rules at IBM to help get him hired.

Speaker 6:
[21:30] People say you might have had a little crush on her.

Speaker 9:
[21:32] Diane? Oh, hell yeah.

Speaker 10:
[21:34] I always had a crush on Diane, since I can remember. She hired me when IBM wouldn't hire me. I had to have a high end of GPA, and they refused to hire me in IBM, so she broke the rules and she hired me. I've been in all over the world, 20 countries, I made a lot of money at IBM, there were all kinds of stuff, if I could do anything with the computer, because she broke the rules for me. So I had a, I'm caging, we have all the rules since the obligation to people that we like, our family and our friends. And so I always had this obligation to take care of her and watch her house and take care of her kids, because she did something for me that nobody else would ever do.

Speaker 4:
[22:02] It was no secret that Ray had a thing for Diane. And it was also no secret that she just didn't feel the same way about him. Even Ray admitted as much, insisting that he just accepted it.

Speaker 6:
[22:16] And Diane didn't reciprocate your feelings?

Speaker 9:
[22:18] No, no. She's just friends. How come? I don't know. Just never had any clean or whatever, that kind of stuff. Just had to get friends. Always had been.

Speaker 6:
[22:28] Did that ever cause problems between you?

Speaker 2:
[22:30] No, never.

Speaker 12:
[22:31] No? Did you have arguments and stuff?

Speaker 2:
[22:33] No.

Speaker 10:
[22:34] In the beginning, I always pampered her and took care of her, and bought her flowers, all that kind of good stuff. It used to make her nervous and uncomfortable, because she didn't like guys pampering her.

Speaker 12:
[22:42] Did you ever have a relationship with her?

Speaker 10:
[22:44] No, she asked me that too. No, I never did.

Speaker 12:
[22:45] No sexual relationship?

Speaker 10:
[22:46] No, never even kissed her. Never even?

Speaker 12:
[22:48] Do you want to?

Speaker 10:
[22:49] I always wanted to, but never did.

Speaker 4:
[22:52] Naturally, the investigators had to consider the possibility that Ray hadn't accepted being just Diane's friend. Maybe he was tired of helping her and getting nothing in return. Maybe he just felt like she owed him. Maybe he tried to make a move and when she turned him down, things got violent.

Speaker 12:
[23:18] Well, one thing that you said and then you kind of took it back, you thought she was good looking.

Speaker 10:
[23:25] I did.

Speaker 12:
[23:25] Getting knife-botted.

Speaker 10:
[23:26] She did.

Speaker 12:
[23:27] Said you didn't want to have sex with her. And then you said earlier on, you said, yeah, you did, but it just never did your knife.

Speaker 10:
[23:35] It was full of friendship if we did. It was full of friendship if we did something like that. Both of us knew it. Just something we understood. Anytime you sleep with a lady, it changes everything. You get the feeling from a lady that...

Speaker 12:
[23:46] You made a pass at her and she said no.

Speaker 10:
[23:48] No, I didn't make a pass at her. I don't make passes at her.

Speaker 12:
[23:50] You didn't?

Speaker 11:
[23:51] No, I don't. I didn't.

Speaker 12:
[23:53] I'm not going to speak to her.

Speaker 10:
[23:54] You don't make a pass at her because it's kind of insulting because she said no, then you get no friendship anymore.

Speaker 12:
[23:58] Oh, yeah, you do.

Speaker 10:
[23:59] No, you don't because Diane's really sensitive to that kind of stuff. You don't... I didn't want to spoil the friendship with her, so I didn't push her. So I didn't make a pass at her, all that kind of stuff. Just stuff that I didn't really do.

Speaker 12:
[24:08] Did you love her?

Speaker 2:
[24:09] Did I love her?

Speaker 10:
[24:11] I guess, like a friend or a sister.

Speaker 12:
[24:12] Did you ever tell anybody you loved her?

Speaker 2:
[24:15] Well, I love how?

Speaker 10:
[24:16] Like I love dogs? I love dogs, too.

Speaker 12:
[24:18] Did you tell anybody you loved her?

Speaker 9:
[24:20] I don't think I would have said that, no.

Speaker 4:
[24:23] The bizarre thing about Ray was that he came off as a genuinely nice guy. Yet if he had killed Diane, it wouldn't have come as a surprise to anyone.

Speaker 6:
[24:35] So you think he pretty much is obsessed with her?

Speaker 7:
[24:38] I wouldn't even, I don't want to go there. I just want to say that.

Speaker 6:
[24:43] What was her falling out about? Let me ask you that.

Speaker 7:
[24:46] I don't know. Ray presses. He presses like he's always wanting validation. And honestly, if I was a woman, he would give me the creeps.

Speaker 6:
[25:03] Oh, really?

Speaker 7:
[25:04] Yeah. And again, it seems like the worst women treat him, you know, the more he, he gravitates toward it. It's a very unhealthy situation.

Speaker 4:
[25:16] For many of Diane's friends, there was something unsettling about Ray. Something they couldn't quite put their finger on. Yet somehow, he mostly came across as friendly and harmless. So, the big question just loomed. Was Ray just a hopeless romantic with a unreturned crush, let's say? Or was he something darker? Was he a man willing to take what he wanted by force, by violence, by murder? Was Ray a monster?

Speaker 6:
[26:02] Did she ever tell you about anything inappropriate that he did that made her feel dark?

Speaker 7:
[26:05] Well, yes. Then this was before we started dating. You would press her on just like things that were not appropriate for friends to press on, and it wasn't sexual, it was just a lot of neediness. And apparently, I do remember now that that's what the last conversation was about. I guess he was pressing on something, and either she hung out with him or he hung out with her. She just had no patience with that.

Speaker 6:
[26:39] Do you think he's capable of doing something bad? Have you ever seen him lose his temper? Has she ever told you about anything?

Speaker 7:
[26:47] I do not specifically ever remember anything like that, no.

Speaker 4:
[26:53] With both Dennis and Ray looking like plausible suspects, investigators turned their focus to the evidence. Maybe the crime scene could point to which man had killed Diane. There were no signs of forced entry, meaning whoever did it was either invited inside or they had a key.

Speaker 6:
[27:14] To your knowledge, who has a key to that house?

Speaker 7:
[27:18] I may have. There was one in my car that I do not have a key on my keychain because I never had the need to.

Speaker 6:
[27:25] Okay. Do you know if Ray has a key?

Speaker 10:
[27:28] These are keys to our house too. If you need copies of them, you can make prints of them.

Speaker 6:
[27:33] To your house?

Speaker 9:
[27:33] No, to her house.

Speaker 6:
[27:34] No, I'm going to take those keys.

Speaker 9:
[27:36] Okay.

Speaker 6:
[27:36] She is deceased and there's really no need for you to be in the house anymore.

Speaker 4:
[27:41] Both Dennis and Ray had keys to Diane's house. That detail unfortunately didn't help narrow things down. So investigators shifted their focus to each man's alibi. And when they each last saw or spoke with Diane.

Speaker 6:
[27:59] When's the last time you saw her?

Speaker 9:
[28:01] Saturday, two weeks ago.

Speaker 10:
[28:02] Saturday night at Dallas nightclub.

Speaker 9:
[28:03] She was with a young lady. I don't really know her name.

Speaker 10:
[28:07] But I haven't heard from her since then. No word, no phone contact, nothing for about two weeks.

Speaker 4:
[28:11] Ray said that the last time he saw Diane was weeks before the murder. Dennis told police that his last contact with her was through an online chat. Well, he was at work. When investigators checked on this, both stories appeared to hold up, which raised a new question. Were they looking at the wrong men altogether? Maybe Dennis and Ray were both innocent.

Speaker 12:
[28:36] What do you think happened?

Speaker 10:
[28:38] What she told me, since she never went upstairs and her house is on the market, and you said she was training. I don't know what time, you didn't tell me what time. I would guess that she was showing somebody the house.

Speaker 4:
[28:47] Interestingly, when Ray was asked what he thought might have happened to Diane, his answer was almost identical to the answer that Dennis had given. Both men suggested that Diane could have been showing the house to a potential buyer, and then things turned violent. With no sign of forced entry, they reasoned that Diane must have let someone inside, and maybe that someone killed her. Investigators soon discovered that this theory wasn't far-fetched at all. While canvassing Diane's neighborhood, they learned that several residents had been approached by a strange man, someone going door to door, claiming to be a rancher and asking about homes for sale. Not only that, but they later confirmed that Diane herself had been approached by this man in the afternoon on the same day that she was killed.

Speaker 6:
[29:49] This man comes in and claims that he's a rancher and claims that he can pay cash for the house. But he needs to get with his wife and that he was going to come back the following day with his wife to see the house. We don't know if he has anything to do with it. I don't know. We're looking into it. It seems suspicious. We're going to try to get a composite, an older man. Apparently, he went to an older man's house Thursday, probably around noon.

Speaker 7:
[30:23] Yeah, because that's when Diane said that she thought she had sold the house. That was like about 3 o'clock in the afternoon on Thursday.

Speaker 6:
[30:31] And I guess she had talked to her friend, Tina, that this guy had come to the house, but he didn't have a real estate agent with him. He came by himself. And, you know, I think she thought it was odd, but apparently she let him in to the house. But he left.

Speaker 4:
[30:51] For several days, investigators tried to untangle the stories of two men, a fiancee who might have been angry about a failed engagement and a co-worker who might have been angry that Diane didn't love him back. But as the investigation moved forward, something much darker started to surface, something beyond jealousy or heartbreak. In a disturbing twist, the evidence pointed to a different kind of motive altogether. One rooted, not in love, but in perversion. And it suggested that whoever killed Diane Holik hadn't come to win her heart. He'd come to feed a fetish. In the days after Diane Holik's murder, investigators pulled at every thread. Jealousy, rejection, heartbreak. Trying to figure out who could have killed her, and why, but none of it fit. When they circled back to the most obvious suspect, her fiance, Dennis, he gave them an alibi that couldn't be broken.

Speaker 6:
[32:39] Okay, so the last time you actually spent time with Diane was last weekend?

Speaker 8:
[32:43] Okay.

Speaker 6:
[32:45] And you drove back to Houston, and did you work all week?

Speaker 1:
[32:48] Yeah.

Speaker 7:
[32:49] I got a friend staying with me. He can vouch for me if it comes to that.

Speaker 6:
[32:55] No, just, you know, we got to do it.

Speaker 7:
[32:57] I understand. I understand.

Speaker 4:
[32:59] Investigators eventually confirmed that when Diane was killed, her fiance Dennis was 200 miles away in Houston, working at his office. He was eliminated as a suspect. Likewise, Diane's co-worker Ray Clancy was also at work at the time of her death. And in fact, hadn't spoken to Diane in about two weeks.

Speaker 6:
[33:23] The night of the storm. Tornadoes, know that.

Speaker 10:
[33:25] 10-30 went home last night, 10-30 that night, because the traffic was horrible. I got home and that's the night I stayed home and didn't go anywhere and sleep. I don't know what time I went to sleep. The door was a little closed. Back to work the next morning about, got to work, I guess, 8 o'clock, 8 o'clock or so.

Speaker 4:
[33:42] With both Ray and Dennis ruled out, investigators turned their attention to a new lead. During an interview with Diane's friend, Tina, they learned that a strange man had recently come to Diane's house, claiming to be interested in buying it.

Speaker 6:
[33:59] And she had said that a man had come over that was very nicely dressed, probably in his mid-30s had come over and told her that he was interested in her house and that he didn't have a real estate agent, that he was a rancher. And that's, I mean, she had that conversation with Tina, but she also made a comment to Tina that the man kind of gave her the creeps. And we don't know if this guy came back, but clearly he used the same ruse, so to speak, with an older man that lived down the street prior to going to Diane's house.

Speaker 4:
[34:34] On the surface, none of this seemed unusual. After all, Diane was trying to sell her home, and there was a big first sale sign out front. It wouldn't be at all strange for someone to stop by unannounced and ask about the property. But what caught investigators' attention was that this same man had been supposedly, house shopping all over Austin for weeks. And nearly everyone who'd encountered him described him the same way. Creepy and strange. And just a little bit threatening.

Speaker 6:
[35:12] Probably by Monday we'll be putting out that on the news, that we are, you know, trying to speak with that man. Hopefully, somebody will call in.

Speaker 4:
[35:21] When a composite sketch was released to the media, it didn't take long for investigators to track down the strange home shopping man. One woman who'd encountered him had been so unnerved by his behavior that she actually wrote down his license plate number. That plate number led investigators to a van registered to a Patrick Anthony Russo.

Speaker 6:
[35:47] Patrick Russo, right?

Speaker 2:
[35:48] Correct.

Speaker 8:
[35:49] Okay.

Speaker 5:
[35:50] And how old are you?

Speaker 2:
[35:53] 38.

Speaker 11:
[35:53] 38.

Speaker 4:
[35:55] 38-year-old Patrick, who sometimes went by his middle name Tony, lived in Elgin, Texas, about 25 miles east of Austin. Patrick was a born-again Christian who worked part-time at his local church.

Speaker 9:
[36:12] What's the name of that church?

Speaker 2:
[36:13] New Life in Christ.

Speaker 7:
[36:14] New Life in Christ?

Speaker 9:
[36:16] Yes, ma'am.

Speaker 6:
[36:17] And what do you do for them?

Speaker 2:
[36:18] I'm the music minister there.

Speaker 5:
[36:21] You said then you're married.

Speaker 6:
[36:22] Your wife's name?

Speaker 2:
[36:23] Janet.

Speaker 6:
[36:25] And the two boys are yours?

Speaker 11:
[36:27] Yes.

Speaker 4:
[36:29] Patrick lived with his second wife, Janet. They had two children from a previous marriage, though they didn't live with them. On the morning of November 21, 2001, Texas deputies arrived at Patrick's home and asked both him and Janet to come down to the station for interviews. They agreed.

Speaker 6:
[36:51] You're not under arrest, okay?

Speaker 2:
[36:53] I am curious. I saw one be knocking on my door this early in the morning.

Speaker 13:
[36:59] This has to do with an incident that happened here in Austin, in Northwest Austin. Some things are missing. I brought a calendar of November. If you can tell us, if you could start maybe the 12th and go through and tell us what you remember, where you were and what you did.

Speaker 4:
[37:21] Before revealing why they brought him to the station for questioning, investigators asked Patrick about his whereabouts during the week of Diane's murder. They quickly focused on the actual day she was killed, which was a Thursday. That day, a massive thunderstorm had swept through Austin.

Speaker 2:
[37:41] That was a big storm day, wasn't it? That is not a problem. Thursday, I spent some time at the church again. I went to go to Cannelly here in Austin.

Speaker 5:
[37:56] What time was that?

Speaker 2:
[38:01] I think it was about, let's see, I talked to my wife. I was pulling in the parking lot, so that would have been about 4 o'clock, I believe.

Speaker 4:
[38:11] Patrick told investigators that on the day Diane was killed, he'd driven into Austin to visit a local radio station. He said he was supposed to meet someone there who was helping him set up a website for his Christian rock band.

Speaker 2:
[38:25] We have a website that we've been trying to get up for about 4 months, and I have spent so much time with them trying to get it up, so I went up there to try to see about getting that up since we got all the information that they needed. And when no one came to the door, I went ahead and left.

Speaker 13:
[38:44] Who did you talk to over at K&L?

Speaker 2:
[38:47] Actually, I didn't talk to anybody because nobody answered the door.

Speaker 13:
[38:52] So you made the trip up there for nothing, basically?

Speaker 2:
[38:54] Pretty much.

Speaker 13:
[38:56] You didn't call ahead and say you were coming.

Speaker 4:
[38:59] Patrick told investigators that his trip to the radio station had been spontaneous. He hadn't made an appointment or even called ahead. When he arrived, no one was there to meet him, and no one at the radio station remembered ever seeing him, which meant Patrick had no alibi. After leaving the station, the storm rolled in. The heavy rain and low visibility caused Patrick to get lost. At least, that's what he said had happened.

Speaker 2:
[39:31] I made a right hand turn and made an illegal U-turn. There was only way you could get around everybody, and then I went back out and got on the highway going back towards Bass Drop. Probably took me about another 50 minutes to get home when it normally was a little bit quicker than that.

Speaker 6:
[39:51] So, what time did you get home?

Speaker 2:
[39:54] 5.30, I guess, or 6.00, somewhere. I'm not really sure exactly the time frame.

Speaker 4:
[40:00] Patrick told investigators he got home around 6 o'clock in the evening, but his wife Janet gave a different time.

Speaker 5:
[40:08] When we got to the station, there wasn't anybody there that was doing the website. So, he was coming home. I know we were on the phone an hour because he was coming through all that storm. So, we were on the phone probably from 6 to 7.

Speaker 3:
[40:24] What time did you get home?

Speaker 5:
[40:26] It should have been shortly after 7, probably between 7 and 7.15, I'm thinking.

Speaker 4:
[40:32] The couple's timelines were off by an hour. In a lot of cases, that kind of discrepancy might not mean much. But in a murder investigation, one hour can change everything. It can be the difference between being miles away from a crime scene or standing inside it.

Speaker 13:
[40:53] Did you ever stop to get out to talk to anybody?

Speaker 2:
[40:57] I believe I knocked on someone's door asking for directions.

Speaker 13:
[41:06] And when you say someone's door, was that a residential door or was that a business door?

Speaker 2:
[41:10] No, it was a residential door.

Speaker 13:
[41:12] Do you remember what that person looked like?

Speaker 2:
[41:15] No, I have no clue.

Speaker 4:
[41:18] Imagine this. Just a few days ago, you're driving home when a brutal thunderstorm rolls in. The rain's coming down in sheets. Visibility's gone. And you take a wrong turn into a neighborhood you've never seen before. You're so disoriented that you stop at a random house, knock on the door, and ask a stranger for directions. Wouldn't you, I don't know, remember that? Wouldn't that whole encounter kind of, oh, I don't know, stick in your mind a little bit?

Speaker 1:
[41:56] Don't you think?

Speaker 4:
[41:58] Apparently for Patrick, nah.

Speaker 13:
[42:01] I want to ask you a little bit more about Thursday. You know, you were talking about going to KNLE, and no one was there to tell us that you were there, okay? And then you talked about driving around and getting back on 183, and now you're telling us about maybe stopping at a residential area and talking to a gray-haired man. Is there any other places that you stopped while you were in this neighborhood? You didn't stop to talk to anybody else?

Speaker 2:
[42:31] I'm not lying to you if that's what you're asking me.

Speaker 13:
[42:34] That's what I'm asking you.

Speaker 2:
[42:35] I'm not lying to you.

Speaker 13:
[42:36] Plain and simple, you only stopped at one house.

Speaker 2:
[42:38] Correct.

Speaker 13:
[42:39] You talked to one man, an older man, and the gist of the conversation was you needed directions to get back to one of your friends.

Speaker 11:
[42:46] Correct.

Speaker 4:
[42:47] Needless to say, investigators didn't buy Patrick's story. They were convinced that the house he stopped at wasn't random and that the person who answered the door was their murder victim, Diane Holik.

Speaker 13:
[43:02] So you're saying you've never seen this woman, never been to her house, never been to her door, doorstep, never been inside her house, never been invited to look around. There would be no reason for anything to come back to say that you were in her house.

Speaker 2:
[43:19] No, sir. If she's saying that I stole something from her, then I'm sorry. I don't know what to say.

Speaker 4:
[43:26] Interestingly, one investigator showed Patrick a photo of Diane. He not only denied ever being in her house, but also spoke about her as if she were still alive. He seemed to believe or wanted detectives to think he believed that this was all about a simple burglary or break-in and not a homicide investigation. Of course, investigators weren't fooled by this performance, and they had more than a few reasons to suspect that Patrick was their man. This wasn't his first brush with the law. Patrick was on parole at the time and had already spent eight nights in prison for kidnapping a woman and tying her up.

Speaker 2:
[44:11] I had a nervous breakdown while on the job. I was trying to seek out a new life which wasn't really going all that great. It ended up where I had a nervous breakdown, and I ended up holding the receptionist against her will. And basically, I broke down crying and just telling her all my problems, and then I left.

Speaker 13:
[44:36] How did you hold her? How did you?

Speaker 2:
[44:37] I tied her up. I needed someone to talk to. I didn't feel like anybody, and I forced her to. I forced her to listen to my problems, and you'll see what it says in the case. Did you hurt her? I believe that anybody that ties anybody up does some damage, physical damage? No, I didn't hurt her. Emotionally, I probably ruined her life.

Speaker 4:
[45:01] Patrick claimed that prison had changed him. He said that after his conviction, he found God, embraced faith, and left his old criminal life behind. He supposedly transformed himself into a humble Christian man.

Speaker 2:
[45:17] I'm going to tell you what I've done to get my life in order, okay? I spent my entire eight years in prison doing nothing but engulfing myself in a better life. I've got my GED. I went to college. I studied for theology to become a minister. I took every kind of anger management program because that was my big problem back then was I went through the drug rehabs because I had an old drug habit that really took a toll on me.

Speaker 4:
[45:52] After his release from prison, Patrick wrote a book, joined a ministry, and even started a Christian rock band. All of this, he claimed, was part of his mission to help others find faith.

Speaker 2:
[46:04] When I got out, I've done everything from put a book out to try to help inmates and other people get their life in order through Christ. I have been a music minister. I have a ministry that I go into prisons with.

Speaker 4:
[46:19] Unfortunately for Patrick, the investigators weren't convinced by his supposed moral awakening. To them, this new Patrick looked a lot like the old one. A man with a history of violence and a record that included not just kidnapping, but also burglary. And of course, Patrick had an excuse for that as well.

Speaker 6:
[46:43] What about the burglaries?

Speaker 2:
[46:45] All my offenses have to do with just anger.

Speaker 6:
[46:49] Was there somebody in the house when you did the burglary?

Speaker 2:
[46:51] Yes. Well, I didn't burglarize the house. I assaulted someone through their doorway. And so I got a burglar of a habitation with the intent to commit bodily harm when the burglary had nothing to do with it because it wasn't a burglary. I was actually looking for a friend of mine. I was looking for a drug fix.

Speaker 4:
[47:11] When investigators pressed Patrick about his criminal past, he grew uneasy. But detectives didn't let up. They hadn't brought him in to rehash his old crimes. Their focus was on the murder of Diane Holik.

Speaker 2:
[47:26] I'm trying to stay relaxed about this whole thing, but y'all are starting to grill me pretty hard for stuff, and I don't even have the slightest clue what's going on. But I do know that I'm trying to be as honest as I can with you guys.

Speaker 6:
[47:43] Are you? I mean, are you really?

Speaker 2:
[47:46] Yes, I am.

Speaker 6:
[47:48] Are you in the market to buy a house?

Speaker 8:
[47:50] No.

Speaker 11:
[47:51] No?

Speaker 6:
[47:53] Is there any reason why you'd be in a neighborhood looking for a house?

Speaker 8:
[47:58] No.

Speaker 6:
[48:00] Do you think it's a little coincidental that several people said that they saw you in a neighborhood?

Speaker 2:
[48:07] I think it's, well, it has to be coincidental because I haven't been in any neighborhood.

Speaker 4:
[48:13] Patrick insisted that everything leading police to his doorstep was just one big coincidence. The witnesses who'd seen him in his van cruising through their neighborhood asking about homes for sale, they were all mistaken. It was just a case of bad luck and bad timing. Good luck convincing the investigators, or a jury for that matter, of any of that.

Speaker 13:
[48:36] Tony, what's happened, okay? Thursday, more than three different people identified you as coming to their place, inquiring about purchasing a residence.

Speaker 2:
[48:51] Well, they're mistaken.

Speaker 13:
[48:53] Let me tell you how serious this is.

Speaker 2:
[48:55] I would appreciate it because I feel like I'm getting pretty banged here and I don't even know what it's for.

Speaker 13:
[49:02] She's dead. I don't know if you noticed when you walked in here, this is the homicide unit.

Speaker 2:
[49:08] Well, okay. Wow. I'm sitting here thinking we're talking about burglary and we're talking about a murderer. As badly as I feel for this woman here, I'm sorry, but you guys are barking up the wrong tree and I don't care how hard you dig, you're not going to find me committing any crime like that.

Speaker 4:
[49:30] His lies, his evasions, the statements and the evidence, all of it made one thing clear. They were sitting across from a man who had strangled a woman to death.

Speaker 13:
[49:43] We can sit here and say, well, it might be somebody that resembles you or looks at, they picked you out. Not a friend, not somebody that looks like, they picked you out. They had a conversation with you. A lady took your license plate number down after you came and started asking some really what did she call it, some unsettling conversation that she had with you. She said she would never forget your face again and she didn't.

Speaker 6:
[50:12] Five different people who live in five different areas who all pick you out. You're being there, you're banned, you got your license plate. I mean, that...

Speaker 2:
[50:23] I'm not disputing whether someone thinks they've seen me, okay? But I'm telling you...

Speaker 6:
[50:29] What about your van?

Speaker 2:
[50:30] Well, I can't explain that. I can't explain it. You know, that may be coincidental, but there's a whole lot of coincidences in life. I can't do nothing about that.

Speaker 6:
[50:40] I don't think that's a coincidence.

Speaker 2:
[50:42] Okay.

Speaker 6:
[50:43] I mean, I just don't, you know, too many people, you know, if it was one person, maybe, but three, four, five. Well, not just this particular day, but another day that was a month ago.

Speaker 4:
[50:56] For weeks, or probably much longer, Patrick had been cruising the streets of Austin in his van, playing the part of the classic predator. He wasn't looking for a house to buy. He was hunting for a victim, and tragically, he found one in Diane Holik.

Speaker 2:
[51:19] I don't know what all you have that you're dealing with.

Speaker 6:
[51:23] Well, I'm dealing with a woman that's dead, and I'm dealing with a neighborhood that's in a panic, because a man came to several of their houses that same day. Some people spent quite a bit of time with that man.

Speaker 2:
[51:34] What am I supposed to say? Y'all want me to say that I did something I didn't do. That's what you want.

Speaker 6:
[51:39] I just want you to tell the truth.

Speaker 2:
[51:40] That's all. Well, I'm trying to, but you guys don't want to hear the truth. Do you want me to hear me say that I went up to the...

Speaker 6:
[51:44] Who else would have had your van on Thursday up in that neighborhood that you've already put yourself in?

Speaker 2:
[51:49] Well, you know...

Speaker 6:
[51:50] Lost in a rainstorm. Who has your van?

Speaker 2:
[51:53] Nobody has my van, except me.

Speaker 6:
[51:56] So, I mean, how do you explain that?

Speaker 2:
[51:58] Well, I can't explain it. I mean...

Speaker 6:
[52:01] You're always dead in the same neighborhood that you were seen in by several other people. That's suspicious. We'd be remiss if we weren't looking into that.

Speaker 2:
[52:08] Well, and I'm not knocking you guys for that, okay? I'm not knocking you, but if you want me to say something that isn't true...

Speaker 4:
[52:18] Investigators pressed harder, confronting Patrick with all kinds of evidence. But no matter how much they threw at him, it wouldn't budge. He doubled down, denying, deflecting, and then denying all over again.

Speaker 2:
[52:35] Well, I can assure you this one thing. I haven't murdered anybody, I haven't robbed anybody, I haven't burglarized any houses. And no matter... I don't care how bad it looks on me, I haven't done anything to anybody. And you can search my house...

Speaker 11:
[52:50] Well, tell us what you've done.

Speaker 2:
[52:51] I haven't done anything. That's what I'm telling you.

Speaker 13:
[52:53] Were you in this neighborhood?

Speaker 2:
[52:55] No.

Speaker 13:
[52:55] You weren't talking to any of these people?

Speaker 2:
[52:57] No, I wasn't.

Speaker 4:
[52:59] Eventually, this interview ran its course, and to Patrick's surprise, the detectives didn't arrest him. Instead, they placed him and his wife, Janet, in the same room. The moment she walked in, Patrick broke down, sobbing and pleading with her to believe he was innocent.

Speaker 11:
[53:18] I'm so sorry you're going through this. But I promise you, as far as I'm concerned, I never did anything to anybody. And I can't explain it, I can't. But I can promise you all my heart, they're wrong. But I can promise you this, listen.

Speaker 1:
[53:38] I promise you this one.

Speaker 11:
[53:39] And it doesn't matter what anybody says or does.

Speaker 4:
[53:49] After his emotional display, Patrick was allowed to leave the station, but his freedom didn't last long. The very next day, detectives arrested him and brought him back in. Up to that point, Patrick had flatly denied ever cruising through Austin or asking about homes for sale. But now, he had a problem. One of those houses where witnesses had identified him, investigators had found his fingerprints.

Speaker 8:
[54:19] When police released a picture of Rousseau, another woman called saying Rousseau had said the same thing to her. Police say fingerprints left in her home matched Rousseau's.

Speaker 4:
[54:28] Even with this evidence, the police didn't charge Patrick with Diane's murder, at least not yet. Instead, they booked him on a parole violation, which was clearly a strategic move to keep a suspected killer behind bars while they brought a stronger case against them. Part of that effort included executing a search warrant on Patrick's home. But when they did, Diane's engagement ring was nowhere to be found. To this day, it has never been recovered. Nonetheless, Patrick's arrest gave investigators a chance to interrogate him again, and maybe this time get a confession.

Speaker 2:
[55:11] Surely, I don't have the only Peter Ford minivan in this entire town.

Speaker 3:
[55:16] You have the only Peter Ford minivan in this entire town, or in the entire state of Texas, that has that license plate on it.

Speaker 2:
[55:23] That's true.

Speaker 9:
[55:24] That is true.

Speaker 2:
[55:26] I'm just saying, if someone wrote that number on my license plate down, then they're mistaken, because it's not me. Coincidences happen. If they didn't, it wouldn't be called coincidences. I'm sure of one thing, that I didn't murder anybody.

Speaker 4:
[55:44] Despite the arrest, and despite all of the evidence, Patrick continued to play his tired, old game.

Speaker 3:
[55:53] I'm a little, frankly, a little fed up with all this coincidence stuff. It's not adding up, and you know it doesn't add up, and we know it doesn't add up, and we know it doesn't look good, but I'm telling you, I didn't murder anybody.

Speaker 6:
[56:08] Okay, then you tell us why. You say you didn't murder somebody. Maybe you didn't, okay? But you were in that neighborhood, Tony, and you talked to several people in that neighborhood. They said that you were there at their home, and it wasn't at 4 o'clock in the afternoon. It was earlier than that.

Speaker 3:
[56:24] And you've been in other places in Austin, doing similar stuff.

Speaker 6:
[56:32] The license plate of that van was written down at another time. Not just this past time, but another time.

Speaker 2:
[56:40] I'm telling you that.

Speaker 6:
[56:42] And you told me yesterday that nobody else drives your van except for you.

Speaker 4:
[56:46] In the short time between Patrick's first interview and his arrest, investigators uncovered a few new details about him. Details that were deeply unsettling. It turned out that the Diane Holik case wasn't the only active investigation where the name Patrick Russo had come up.

Speaker 6:
[57:06] You know what? Let me ask you something. We called Lake Jackson yesterday and we talked to several detectives who knew Patrick Russo really, really well. We had some very interesting conversations about some cases that you were involved in that you were never filed on for. And you know what those cases involved? Those cases involved you choking women, you tying women up and choking them. I find that very interesting.

Speaker 3:
[57:36] Another one of those coincidences.

Speaker 6:
[57:37] I suppose that's a coincidence.

Speaker 4:
[57:40] Naturally, Patrick had even more denials and excuses about all of these other eerily similar investigations.

Speaker 6:
[57:48] They have multiple women over there that were choked by Patrick Russo, and they all picked you out. You admitted to the one that you knew you were busted on because you were picked out of that line up.

Speaker 2:
[58:00] I admitted to every single thing that I've been in trouble with.

Speaker 6:
[58:03] You never said anything about choking any of those other women.

Speaker 2:
[58:06] I got a risk before.

Speaker 6:
[58:07] Tying them up.

Speaker 2:
[58:10] I tied up one person when I had my nervous breakdown.

Speaker 6:
[58:14] I'm talking about the ones that you didn't talk about. I'm talking about the women that you did tie up and choke, but you didn't talk about.

Speaker 2:
[58:21] I have not tied up anybody and choked anybody.

Speaker 6:
[58:25] Really?

Speaker 2:
[58:26] I have assaulted a couple of people, and I have tied up...

Speaker 6:
[58:40] You only told us that one because that's the one you got convicted on. There's multiple cases that they could have filed on you, and why they didn't, I don't know. And you know what? They were like, I can't believe he's out of jail. There's several women that said you tied them up. You tied their hands up. How about the one who came out of her bedroom when the other one was tied up, and then you had to tie her up too.

Speaker 2:
[59:04] You guys are twisting things up.

Speaker 3:
[59:06] We're just repeating what they told us.

Speaker 2:
[59:08] You need to read the police report. Don't listen to over talk from 10 years ago because it's real easy to start confusing things. You read my files and see what was said and written in those things, and then come talk to me about them.

Speaker 4:
[59:22] As the investigation into Patrick Deepen, a disturbing pattern became very clear. One that pointed to a twisted fascination with choking women. That dark obsession was also confirmed by statements from his own wife.

Speaker 5:
[59:39] He has always been fascinated, I will say this, he has always been fascinated with my neck. I guess because I have such a skinny little neck. I mean, I will say that he does tend to put his hand on my neck, but if I say let go or I can't, airways getting restricted, you know, then, and he always lets go. I mean, he realizes, you know, and...

Speaker 6:
[60:03] What would you say if I told you that your wife told Detective Gilchrist, that you choke her during sex? What would you say to that?

Speaker 2:
[60:13] I would say that what I do in my sex life is nobody's business.

Speaker 6:
[60:18] It may not be, but I think it's very pertinent to this case and what's happened here and what's happened in your past. You like to choke women. That's obvious. Why would you choke your wife during sex?

Speaker 2:
[60:30] You guys, after my phone call, came in here and are instantly hostile. Why? I don't know.

Speaker 3:
[60:37] Because we're fed up.

Speaker 2:
[60:38] Well, you know, look, this is my life here. This is my life that's on the line here.

Speaker 3:
[60:43] Right.

Speaker 2:
[60:43] Now, I didn't do anything to hurt anybody else's life. And yes, I have a reason to feel the way I feel.

Speaker 4:
[60:50] Patrick kept up his act. The cooperative, wrongfully accused man just trying to clear his name. But it never worked. The web of so-called coincidences and mounting evidence had become far too much for him to overcome.

Speaker 2:
[61:07] I'm trying to cooperate with you guys.

Speaker 3:
[61:09] You know what? You're not trying to cooperate. You're trying to snow us. You're trying to get over on it. So they will think that you're this high and mighty religious whatever that is so much better than your past, that you've done all that. You're through with all that and nothing happened. You're innocent. You couldn't have been anywhere that we said you were. When the facts, indisputable, concrete facts, say different. Quit all this crap about coincidences and know I wasn't here, know I wasn't there and get right, admit to what you did. And maybe we can get to the forgiveness part, because this is just crap. It's just bullshit and you know it.

Speaker 4:
[61:55] Like his first interview, this interrogation eventually ran its course, and Patrick held firm to his story. He clung on to his lies and refused to confess.

Speaker 2:
[62:06] I'll tell you what I am. I'm in real big days here, because I can't believe this is happening in my life.

Speaker 6:
[62:11] Well, you better believe it, and you knew it yesterday. You knew it yesterday. You know exactly what's going on, Patrick.

Speaker 2:
[62:18] I know what's going on. I can't help it if I can't believe what's happening.

Speaker 6:
[62:23] Well, you know what? We're going to prove that you did it. And it isn't going to be that hard, because you're there. Everybody saw you there. You're just making it worse for yourself.

Speaker 11:
[62:35] I did not kill anybody.

Speaker 6:
[62:36] You're just making it worse for yourself.

Speaker 4:
[62:39] While Patrick sat in jail on his parole violation, investigators kept working the case. And before long, they had enough to move forward. Formal murder charges were filed against him.

Speaker 8:
[62:52] In May, Russo was indicted for the November 2001 murder of Diane Holik. Holik's Northwest Austin home was up for sale. Police think Russo posed as an interested buyer. An arrest warrant explains November 15th, Holik told a friend a man was going to sell his ranch and buy her home. The next day, police found her strangled body.

Speaker 4:
[63:10] As expected, Patrick pleaded not guilty. And what followed were months of motions, hearings, and seemingly endless days.

Speaker 8:
[63:19] This is supposed to be a hearing where Patrick Russo's defense finds out what evidence the prosecution has against him. But the judge decides to focus on other capital murder cases first and postpones the hearing.

Speaker 2:
[63:30] I'm absolutely innocent. And I don't think this has been around me here for two years. My life.

Speaker 8:
[63:37] It's a setback for Russo and his family.

Speaker 5:
[63:40] One of the things that I think has just really been frustrating is the fact that with all the postponements, it doesn't seem to be a system that brings about justice the way that maybe we thought it would.

Speaker 8:
[63:54] Russo's family members don't want to talk about details, afraid it might hurt the case, but say they know Russo's innocent and just want the chance to tell his side and get him home.

Speaker 5:
[64:03] Basically, our lives are on hold right now until this situation gets resolved.

Speaker 4:
[64:08] By 2003, Patrick's case finally went to trial, nearly two years after Diane Holik's murder. Prosecutors laid out a chilling case. They told jurors that Patrick Russo had spent months cruising neighborhoods around Austin, posing as a cash buyer interested in homes for sale. Nearly every person he approached was a woman. He'd introduce himself with different names, spin stories about selling a ranch, and insist on meeting alone. They presented witnesses, realtors and homeowners, who identified Patrick as the man who'd made them uncomfortable with his behavior. Then came the forensic evidence. DNA from Diane's left hand that matched Patrick, and hairs found on a towel inside her home that couldn't exclude him as the source. But what truly unsettled the courtroom was testimony from Patrick's first wife. She told jurors that during their marriage, Patrick had a disturbing sexual fixation. That he could only climax while joking her. In part, that testimony helped prosecutors expose what they believed to be Patrick's motive. On his home computer, investigators had also uncovered over a thousand images from an asphyxiation-themed porn site called necrobabes.com. You're welcome, weirdo. To the prosecution, this wasn't just pornography. It was Patrick's violent fantasy brought to life in the murder of Diane Holik.

Speaker 2:
[65:55] Why would y'all even think that I would do something like that? What motive would I have had to do something like that?

Speaker 5:
[66:02] I have no idea. Was it a burglary?

Speaker 6:
[66:04] Was it a robbery? Was it a rape?

Speaker 5:
[66:07] I don't know.

Speaker 6:
[66:10] I mean, that woman never did anything to hurt anybody. Everybody loved that woman. I mean, I haven't heard one person say a bad thing about this person. I mean, it had no enemies. There's no reason for it. None whatsoever.

Speaker 4:
[66:24] After learning that Diane had been murdered, her family, friends, and investigators all struggled to understand why. Why would someone tie her up and strangle her for no apparent reason? In the end, the answer wasn't complicated, just horrifying. Patrick Russo had a fantasy, an overwhelming compulsion to choke women, one that overpowered reason, empathy, and even his own fear of losing his freedom. What he did wasn't driven by rage. It was driven by a perverse need for power and control, deliberate, predatory, and obsessive. This reality paints a chilling picture of Diane's final moments. We know that Patrick went to her home, tied her up, and strangled her to death before maliciously cleaning the scene and fleeing. But Patrick never confessed. The most haunting details remain unknown. How did he gain control of Diane? How long did he keep her restrained before deciding to kill her? What did he say to her? What did she say to him? Did she beg for her life? Did Diane know she was going to die? All these questions and so many others will likely never be answered.

Speaker 2:
[67:57] Trying to live my life and do what's right.

Speaker 6:
[67:59] I mean, you say that, but would you really admit to it if you did?

Speaker 2:
[68:04] If I did it?

Speaker 6:
[68:04] Would you do the Christian thing? I mean, you wouldn't hide behind this whole Christian cloak thing.

Speaker 2:
[68:10] It's not a cloak thing. It's a for real thing. And as a Christian, I wouldn't do something like that.

Speaker 4:
[68:16] Patrick had spent years constructing a mask. To the world, he was a man of faith, a Christian, a music minister, a husband, a family man. But behind the facade was something else. He was a predator, prowling for women and attempting to perfect his routine over and over until the day he finally struck.

Speaker 6:
[68:41] It's disgusting to sit here and listen to you talk about being such a devout Christian and forgiveness and how much you've turned your life around when this one coincidence after another, this whole thing goes back to similarities that I'm sure are coincidental back in 1989, 1990, 1991, 92. But you're this reborn Christian and you're going to sit here and lie about it?

Speaker 4:
[69:07] The split between the life Patrick performed and the darkness he concealed is ultimately what defines him. And it's what stripped away any doubt about who he truly was. Not a man of God, not a misunderstood soul, but a monster hiding in plain sight. Tragically, the person who paid the ultimate price for this monster's desires was an ordinary woman. Someone simply trying to sell her home and start a new life with her fiance.

Speaker 6:
[69:42] Tell me what her daily routine is, do you know?

Speaker 7:
[69:44] Gets up about 8.15, heads right over to the computer, gets some tea, make sure the dogs are fine, and she just starts cranking away till, you know, like noon, and I think she usually takes a shower and gets dressed, runs errands or whatever, and then cranks till whenever she needs to crank till, and she'll go work out or go down to Tom Lake or...

Speaker 10:
[70:14] She likes to go out to have sushi once in a while. She wasn't a big, not as a lady in the last couple of years, but she's a big going out person. Mostly staying at home. She did a lot of eating at home. Her kids were her life. Her dogs, sorry. A lot of her kids.

Speaker 9:
[70:27] That's what I go into.

Speaker 10:
[70:28] They were very important to her, so she always took care of them. She didn't leave them by themselves. So she was... That was her family, I guess.

Speaker 4:
[70:36] On May 9th, 2003, a Texas jury returned a guilty verdict for Patrick Russo. But because they couldn't reach a unanimous decision on the sentencing, the judge imposed an automatic sentence of life in prison without the possibility of parole, sparing him the death penalty. For investigators, this conviction was the end of a long and difficult case. For Diane's friends and family, it was the end of something far greater, a life that never should have been taken. As for Patrick, he will spend the rest of his life behind bars, remembered not for his music or his faith, but for the false life he built and the violence that exposed it. If you like that, and if you like things like that, head on over to swordandscale.com, download the app on your Apple iPhone or your Android, whatever, and, you know, subscribe to PLUS. You can get all kinds of extra content, including commercial-free episodes of everything, including Nightmares, Sword and Scale, our old PLUS show. This doesn't happen to people like me. We've done all these other podcasts, so you can go get all of that stuff. You can get commercial-free versions of this show for the last 13 years. Again, this is episode 348. There's 348 of them, plus 150, 160-plus episodes, plus 60-something Nightmares. I don't know, there's a lot of stuff. Go get it. Go get it right now. Go get it right now!