transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:00] So you're saying with Hilton Honors, I can use points for a free night stay anywhere?

Speaker 2:
[00:04] Anywhere.

Speaker 1:
[00:06] What about fancy places like the Canopy in Paris? Yeah, Hilton Honors, baby. Or relaxing sanctuaries like the Conrad and Tulum?

Speaker 2:
[00:13] Hilton Honors, baby.

Speaker 1:
[00:15] What about the five-star Waldorf Astoria in the Maldives? Are you gonna do this for all 9,000 properties? When you want points that can take you anywhere, anytime, it matters where you stay.

Speaker 3:
[00:26] Hilton, for the stay.

Speaker 1:
[00:28] Book your spring break now.

Speaker 4:
[00:39] Hey friends, welcome to the Raising Boys and Girls Podcast. I'm Sissy Goff.

Speaker 2:
[00:43] And I'm David Thomas, and we're so glad you've joined us for this conversation. Let's dive in.

Speaker 4:
[00:56] Kari Kampakis is an author and national speaker from Birmingham, Alabama. Her bestselling books, Love Her Well, More Than a Mom, 10 Ultimate Truths Girls Should Know and Liked, have been used widely across the US for group studies and her first devotional for teen girls, Yours Not Hers, 40 Devotions to Stop Comparisons and Love Your Life, released in January 2025. Kari's work has been featured on The Today Show, Today Parents, Focus on the Family, EWTN, Bethany Hamilton's Mother Daughter Experience, Live in Love with Andy Downs and Lauren Aikens and other national outlets. She also hosts the Girl Mom Podcast. Kari and her husband Harry have four daughters and a dog named Lola. We cannot wait for you to listen in to this conversation with our dear friend, Kari Kampakis.

Speaker 2:
[01:46] And make sure you listen all the way through because Kari is giving us great information, not just on girls.

Speaker 4:
[01:54] I really think out of all of the authors I talk about in my office, your name is who I talk about the most.

Speaker 3:
[02:01] Oh, Sissy.

Speaker 4:
[02:02] Genuinely.

Speaker 3:
[02:03] That means the world to me.

Speaker 4:
[02:05] Well, with girls and with parents. I mean, Kari, you just for so long have put out great information for both. And it's hard to write for both. And I just am so thankful you're in the world giving the great, helpful information that you are. And we're so excited about the new book.

Speaker 2:
[02:25] Thank you. Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[02:26] Well, I just can't thank the two of you enough. I mean, I joke that I've quoted y'all so much. It's almost embarrassing sometimes. But it's just neat how God works because so much of my parenting perspective has been shaped by what I've learned from you. So you don't even realize how you're discipling people as authors and parents, too. I mean, just the work y'all are doing is so important. So thank you.

Speaker 2:
[02:49] We love your voice so much. We've wanted to have you on the podcast repeatedly, but we've never gotten to have you in Nashville. We've always been to get it on Zoom. And you're here at the Daystar House today. It's so fun.

Speaker 3:
[02:59] It's amazing.

Speaker 4:
[03:01] I know. We realized today, you are one of our four most popular guests. Like, we have only had four people three times. Really? And you're one of them.

Speaker 3:
[03:14] Thank you.

Speaker 4:
[03:15] Well, we're so grateful. I'm so honored. It's so fun for us.

Speaker 3:
[03:18] Every time when I saw that invitation from y'all, I'm like, yes, that's easy, easy, yes. Thank you.

Speaker 4:
[03:23] Thank you. And we're, I mean, we have way more questions than we need to have because we have so many things we want to talk about with you. And your new book, as I said, we're so excited about it.

Speaker 3:
[03:36] Thank you.

Speaker 4:
[03:36] And we love the idea that it begins with Today's Girls Need Grace and Grit. And we could not agree more. So will you give, well, will you tell a little bit about the book first?

Speaker 3:
[03:48] Yes.

Speaker 4:
[03:48] And will you talk about what you mean by both and why the combination of the two feels especially important right now?

Speaker 3:
[03:55] Yes, yes. Well, the book really came about, I guess it was after COVID. I was invited to write another book for parents by my editors. And I really just prayed about it. And I started thinking, like, what do I think parents need now after Love Her Well and More Than a Mom, those two books? And the theme that kept coming to mind is light and darkness. And it's funny, with it being published now, like it really feels so relevant, even more so two years later than when I started writing it. But I just, you know, and I thought with daughters, and you all know this, there's just this great irony. And I'm sure with sons, too, that, you know, when they're little, you're focusing on the good in the world. And you're teaching them, be kind, be compassionate, fruit of the Holy Spirit, all the grace, you know. Teaching them, I was taking them to etiquette classes when my kids were little, right? Teaching them all the good things. But then they get older, and especially as they're about to go to college, you know, you're focusing on the hard realities of life. And I'm like, in my work, I see that some of the girls that get taken advantage of the most are the sweet little Christian girls who have grown up surrounded by loving parents and trustworthy people. And so, you know, they grow up, and I'm like, we're going to self-defense classes. Good, you know, and I want you to have eyes in the back of your head and love many, but trust few, and really trust your gut, tune into that discernment. And so that's really what the grace and grit came about. And I think, especially raising girls in the South, you know, I think we, you know, very, you know, we teach them integrity and to be kind and all of that. But sometimes it's hard for them to switch gears and, you know, tell them, if you're in a harmful situation, like all bets are off, you know, like, you don't have to be polite to somebody who's giving you the creeps, like you. And it's hard for them to make that switch. And I think that's just an important conversation to have with them, having that grace, but also that grit, and not only grit if you're in a harmful situation, but also just, you know, when you're going to face disappointments, you're going to have heartaches, you know, they might even face trauma. You know, we don't know what our children are going to experience. And like, we want them to have that inner resilience and that inner strength that comes from God ultimately.

Speaker 4:
[05:51] Amen.

Speaker 2:
[05:52] Okay, building on that, Kari, I love how you talk about helping girls believe in goodness without being naive. So I want to camp out in that space and preparing them for hard realities without allowing those hard realities to harden them. So what are some of the hard realities that you think are most often overlooked and what can parents do to help prepare their daughters for them?

Speaker 3:
[06:14] Yes, well, like I said, I think just the audience that I speak to, you know, most of these parents do love their daughter so well, and that is great. And these girls have been surrounded by love. And I think they sometimes, I don't want to say they've grown up in a bubble, but it can be a little bit, like I said, they don't understand that not everybody is trustworthy. And an example of that is, I remember when my daughter turned 16, and she and her friends were all excited to drive around, and it was Friday night, and they wanted to go have a picnic on Friday night. But they wanted to have it in Railroad Park, in downtown Birmingham. And I'm like, no, you and this other beautiful 16-year-old girl, you're not going to downtown Birmingham and having this picnic. And why? Because she was, in her mind, everybody was safe. Everybody's good, because she's been surrounded by that. And so it was so frustrating to me, but I'm like, she doesn't, she hasn't seen what I've seen. She hasn't experienced the tough realities of this world. And it's so hard to protect that. I want to protect your tender heart, but you also have got to know what you're up against, too. And so that's, I think, just teaching our daughters that, just like that spirit of discernment, which is a whole chapter in the book, but also-

Speaker 4:
[07:19] I love that that is a chapter in the book.

Speaker 3:
[07:21] I know.

Speaker 4:
[07:21] Love it.

Speaker 3:
[07:22] Well, you know, and it's funny, I read, we just free packaged liked my second book and they asked me to add a new chapter to that. And I was like, what do we need? And I did a whole chapter on discernment.

Speaker 4:
[07:31] I'm so excited about that.

Speaker 2:
[07:33] Yeah. Good.

Speaker 3:
[07:34] So it's teaching them to tune in. And so, yeah, and that, I think, like I said, just the grace and the grit and, you know, just knowing what they're up against, but we don't want it to, we still want them to have that tender heart. Yeah. But also, I think, I think anytime they're a little bit forewarned is forearmed. And so even with daughters, like, you know, we both know that meanness is on a whole new level, the staying agent is starting earlier and earlier. These girls are struggling with friendships. And I think anytime we can tell them, you know, you're going to encounter some mean girl situations, you are going to be, somebody's going to say something really hurtful to you one day. And I think just having a heads up about that, and sometimes I even tell mom's stories and I'm like, I don't think they believe me until it happens two years later. And then they go back and like, what did she write about that? But you know, we know that having the experience that we do. But it's like, you know, so that way, when it happens, come to me. We'll talk through that. And know that that is somebody's opinion about you. That is not the truth. And then really rooting our children in the truth of God, helping them find their identity in Christ. And I think it can make all the difference. When you're rooted in the truth that whatever people say to you, you have that truth to call to mind, like, this is who God says I am, and I'm God's masterpiece. And they just can't hear that enough. Yes.

Speaker 4:
[08:44] Amen. Amen. Well, okay, we could talk about a million things that we love about this book. But another one is, which everything, I feel like we're always so like-hearted in so many things, but the fact that you talk about cultivating a mission mindset is so important and so powerful and even healing, I think, for kids. And so, will you talk about what that looks like in a teenager's life today and how parents can foster that instead of just being so success driven? Because it's easy to be, not even just because we care so much about success, but I think any more to get into college, it's like you have to think about success academically and extracurricularly and all the way. So we talk about what it looks like to foster that.

Speaker 3:
[09:29] Yes. I think our children, they just can't hear it enough that their greatest life purpose, and I tell this to moms too, even greater than motherhood is to know, love and serve the Lord. And just helping our children believe that He created you uniquely. He created you to live authentically and not identically to every girl out there.

Speaker 4:
[09:46] Wait, will you say that again? That was so good.

Speaker 3:
[09:47] God created our children to live authentically and not identically to everyone else out there. And you're even hearing this, I have some friends with sons, and they're like, all the girls are exactly alike. They want to just be clones of each other. And I mean, that's just something that's always happened. But even more so in this age of social media, girls sometimes bury the best part of themselves, and they bury their authentic, unique life experiences that God wants to use as part of their mission. And so, just one little example that comes to mind is that, teaching our children, rather than think your life is wrong because you're comparing it to everybody else's, really mind your life. What desires and dreams has God put in your heart? What skills do you have? Where do you run your five-minute mile? Something that comes more naturally to you than somebody else. But my daughter had a friend that in high school loved making drone videos. This is something I heard recently. It's a different, it's a very niche interest and we love her, but she was always making these drone videos because she was not scared to be herself. That's just what she loved.

Speaker 4:
[10:45] So cool.

Speaker 3:
[10:47] So anyway, fast forward a few years. She just graduated from college. She got a job at Brass Fiddle and Gory, it's a huge construction company in Birmingham. She's working in the marketing department and she's making drone videos at construction sites.

Speaker 4:
[10:59] Incredible.

Speaker 3:
[11:00] I thought, thank you, God, that she did not bury that interest that probably, I've never heard of anybody who had that interest. It was a very niche interest, but God put that there on her heart for a reason and she's going to be successful at it. I think that's just an example of helping our children see that about themselves. Maybe you love football, but you're small and you're never going to be a great football player, but you also love statistics. So maybe that person might go into sports broadcasting or helping our kids connect those dots. And the other thing I've thought about so much lately is we are so focused on numbers and academics. But it's very interesting having older children and seeing like who's getting jobs and hearing about them and who's getting into grad school and the importance of the interview. And I call them the soft skills and teaching our kids like for some kids, school is a struggle. You know, they're struggling to get a C in math and that C is for celebrate, right? Sometimes I've heard that one time from a counselor. I love that. But they might have a great gift for like remembering names or just those soft skills.

Speaker 4:
[12:03] I wish I had that skill still. That's a huge soft skill.

Speaker 3:
[12:06] I know.

Speaker 4:
[12:07] Parative.

Speaker 3:
[12:07] Yeah. But my daughter had another friend that I thought this was a good story too. She had an internship last summer and it was with a Fortune 500 company in Atlanta. And she joked like, I don't know how I got the job because she was the only SEC sorority girl. And it was all these Ivy League students that were interns with her. But she just felt lucky to be there. But this girl is just one of my favorite people. Best attitude, sweetest personality. At the end of the summer, they could choose one intern to give the full-time job to for the following year. And they chose her.

Speaker 4:
[12:37] Wow.

Speaker 3:
[12:37] Yeah. And so her mom told me that they later told her. They were like, you're always dressed appropriately. You can make small talk. We can send you into a board meeting last minute and we know that you're going to represent us well. And she's really strong in those soft skills. She had the ability to do the job too. But I just think that's something we don't talk about enough with our kids. And I'm just seeing it over and over that you could have the best GPA in the world. You can go to the most academic college in the world. But if you don't have those soft skills, that can really be what helps somebody stand out.

Speaker 2:
[13:09] Yes.

Speaker 3:
[13:09] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[13:10] That's so good.

Speaker 2:
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Speaker 1:
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Speaker 2:
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Speaker 2:
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Speaker 4:
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Speaker 2:
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Speaker 4:
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Speaker 2:
[15:45] Okay, you mentioned Mean Girls a few minutes ago. Can we circle back? Because that feels like an important place for us to camp out. Not a pleasant place to camp out, but an important place. And thinking about the evidence we're seeing on this end of just that being more prevalent than ever and how hard it is for so many girls to find their way to healthy relationships. You talk so well. One of the pillars of the book is about modeling those relationships. And when you talk for parents listening right now, just how could they be about that even today, and what difference does that make?

Speaker 3:
[16:17] Yeah. Well, and I'd like to hear y'all's opinion on this. One of the biggest issues, I think one of the root problems that I see in my work, you're like, why are we having such a mean girl problem? I think it's because we're a narcissistic society. And I think even as parents, and I've been guilty of this, we spend so much time thinking about how are other people treating my child? How are they perceiving my child? What is being done to my child? And we're truly not taking five minutes to consider how is my child treating other people? And I tell girls all the time, I'm like every healthy relationship is always going to consist of two givers. Two people, you can either be a giver or a taker. And if you have two givers, you don't have to keep score, you don't have to worry about it, you know, you just, it's going to work. Through marriage and friendship, but you know, you see a lot of relationships where somebody's trying to be kind, they're giving, but it's not being reciprocated. And yet they keep trying and trying and trying. And you know, I've done this article recently that it just resonates with a lot of moms that what I see is that a lot of kind girls, especially middle school, fall through the cracks. And sometimes in high school, it's just, and I think that's where it's very tempting to just take the other path. Like, well, this is what it takes to be in this friend group or to be popular or to have social imitations. And you just want to tell them, don't do it. Long term, but it can be a weight. And you know, I tell girls too, I was like, I don't know any girl who makes it to college without a lonely season along the way. Even the ones that you think are popular have some imitations. I'm like, moms tell me things. And people, you would be surprised. The cheerleaders, the popular girls, everybody has those lonely seasons. And kindness is not always appreciated or rewarded, especially middle school and high school. But those are the girls that I see go to college and they thrive. Because at that age, people are like, they've had mean friend experiences. By that time, they're smarter in picking their friends than they were in seventh grade when they went to middle school. And they know exactly what they want. And not only that, but I see a lot of girls who did take that mean path that paid off maybe middle school and high school. But it kind of blows up in their face in college. Like I tell girls, like don't burn bridges because things will come back. And you kind of see that people, your reputation can precede you, not just in being wild or whatever, but also in being unkind. And so that's one of my new passions, is talking to these fifth and sixth graders. I'm so glad.

Speaker 4:
[18:33] Yes. Yes, just that so many girls, that you have the ear of so many girls, makes me so grateful. Because, yes, I certainly think girls are meaner than ever. And I think moms are meaner than ever. Out of that, exactly, it's a protectiveness. It's a great intention.

Speaker 3:
[18:50] Right.

Speaker 4:
[18:50] But we're doing a lot of damage and making it worse.

Speaker 3:
[18:53] Yes, I think it's all about what's happening to my child and what not what my child might be doing or treating people.

Speaker 4:
[18:59] I'm so glad you're talking about all this. Okay, let's talk about, for David's sake, let's talk about boys for a minute. Okay, I love it. What from the book do you feel like applies to boys as well? And how do we help know that our boys are ready? Or how do we help get them ready?

Speaker 3:
[19:16] That is a great question. You know, it's funny, my friends with boys say that like 90% of my work applies to boys too.

Speaker 4:
[19:23] Yes, I totally agree.

Speaker 3:
[19:24] Yeah. And I don't know what which chapter would be most relevant. Maybe the trust in God, just the faith chapter. But you know, what I wish if I was speaking to boys and I love your book, is it Raising Emotionally Healthy Boys? That should be required reading for every boy mom. I read it and got so much out of it as a girl mom. It is so good. But just, you know, don't be scared to rise up and don't be scared to show that healthy masculinity. And I think, I was like, one day I will speak to boys and I think they would be shot at the things that girls pick up on that they like. And that impresses them when a guy shows character and integrity, that there's something that a good girl is going to be attracted to that. And just like little things, like I think about just things I've heard over time. Like, you know, my daughter, one of my daughters has been dating a boy for a few years. And I remember after their first date, he took her to dinner and she told me, he just reminds me of dad. And I was like, well, what is it? She's like, well, just like, like my water glass was empty and he noticed and he filled it back up. And then, you know, the same daughter, this boy, he took, he's Catholic and she and some Catholic friends wanted to go to church one night, freshman year. So he came and picked them all up. So took these three girls to church and he's just a good guy. But like when the tray was coming around, he gave them each a dollar to put in the tray. Yeah, but like girls pick up on like not every girl, but I'm like, the girls that you want in your life are going to be impressed by that. And even my 10th grader just went to homecoming with a friend and that makes it even more special when a guy does this and it's just his friend. But she was like, he was such a good date, like he'd come check on me. And she took off her shoes at one point and he asked if she wanted him to carry her shoes. Yeah. And so I just think like, don't be scared to be that guy. And some girls want to appreciate it. Like I meet moms and they're like, my son has tried to do that. And his one mom was like, his girlfriend got mad at him when he'd open doors. And her mom would get mad at him. Like they didn't want him doing that being a gentleman basically. And I'm like, let her go dates a jerk for about two weeks and she will change her tune. You know, she's not going to appreciate that.

Speaker 4:
[21:22] Yes.

Speaker 3:
[21:23] And some people want, they will not appreciate a guy who holds himself to high standards until they date somebody who's the opposite. And most girls go through at least one relationship like that to drive you that way. So I guess my message to boys is like, you know, stay in there, you know, don't give up just because it's not being rewarded or appreciated right now. Because it matters.

Speaker 4:
[21:43] Yes, it sure does.

Speaker 2:
[21:45] Kari, you talk about creating an environment of trusting God. We love that language. And how would you say parents could be doing that right now?

Speaker 3:
[21:54] Yes, it is so hard. And I think we live in an age of very engaged parenting. And that's the hard part is like, and we're meant to be engaged. And sometimes we do need to step in and we do need to do something. But also in this age, we can overstep boundaries. And there's a there's a balance like when do we make that phone call and when do we wait and pray? And when do we say something and when do we bite our tongue? And so, you know, I think just showing our children that sometimes we don't get answered, we don't get all the answers at first. And they're not things are not going to always go according to Plan A. But our job as parents is to like just trust God with the process. And it's so hard. But an example that comes to mind that I shared in the book, and this was something, this was growth on my part, because I probably would have handled it differently as a younger mom. But, you know, one of my daughters really struggles on the standardized testing. She had a great GPA, but standardized tests are not her friend. And we were always like, we're not worried about you. You're going to have a job, you're going to do great in life. But just, you know, the ACT. So she was wanting to go to a certain college, and that's the college I thought she was going to go to. And it was junior year, she had taken the ACT probably five times, her score had not budged about three of those times. And she was so frustrated, and she got her scores back, and it was the same as the prior two times. And she was doing tutors, trying so hard. And she just had a breakdown. And so part of me, the doer in me, was like wanting to double down on tutors, because I'm like, we can get it up. I don't know if this is going to get her in first round. But when I saw her crying, I'm like, that is not what she needs. And I'm like, what are we trying to do? Like her mental health is more important than anything. And so my husband and I knew that our job was to take the pressure off. So we're like, we are not worried about you. And you don't need to be worried about yourself. Like you're doing all the right things. You're doing your part. And God is going to open the doors that need to be open. But I mean, I saw the visible relief on her face. It's just like, thank you. Not that she felt the pressure from us, but just because she put so much pressure on herself. But in my heart, I was worried. And I'm like, I'm presenting that front to her, but I'm like, oh, I need to go talk to her about this. Like, what do we do? But I knew that she was already so stressed with junior year doing the testing. So anyway, we didn't, we didn't, we just trusted God. And here's the irony. She got in first round, and then she decided not to go there. Wow. She made a different choice. And I was like, thank you, God, that I didn't follow my mama bear instinct and go double down on tutors and try to control the situation and say, you can do it. You know, we just need to plug through it because that's not what she needed. And so, but that took some maturity on my part. And like I said, I might not have done that five or ten years prior.

Speaker 2:
[24:20] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[24:21] And intuition. Just like you're helping the girls discover.

Speaker 2:
[24:26] You know, we are firm believers that we all need a little more laughter and a whole lot more grace.

Speaker 4:
[24:32] And if you are raising a child with ADHD, dyslexia, autism, or another learning and thinking difference, you know how intense some days can feel. The advocacy, the school meetings, the meltdowns, the moments when you wonder if you're getting any of it right.

Speaker 2:
[24:47] If that hits home, we recently found a podcast we think you'll really appreciate. It's called Everyone Gets a Juice Box for Parents of Neurodivergent Kids.

Speaker 4:
[24:57] Check out a few episodes, including one about parenting regrets after an ADHD and autism diagnosis, and another about how, quote, fine isn't always fine when it comes to dyslexia.

Speaker 2:
[25:09] You'll appreciate the tone, it's honest, it's warm, it's funny in the way that only parents who truly get it can be. You can hear the relief in their voices when they realize they're not alone. It feels like sitting down with other parents who understand the mysteries, the multiple diagnosis, and the beauty in the middle of it all.

Speaker 4:
[25:26] If you could use that kind of community and encouragement, we really think you'll like it.

Speaker 2:
[25:31] To listen, search for Everyone Gets a Juice Box in your podcast app.

Speaker 4:
[25:35] That's Everyone Gets a Juice Box. Okay, I need to confess something. Patches staged a silent protest this week.

Speaker 2:
[25:46] A protest?

Speaker 4:
[25:48] She could not get settled in my bed. Circling, sighing dramatically, flopping down, getting back up. And then I realized I had washed the bedding and forgot to put the bowl and branch sheets back on.

Speaker 2:
[25:59] Oh, do you have some entitlement to work through?

Speaker 4:
[26:02] Yes.

Speaker 2:
[26:03] In her defense, I get it. She's got great taste. And here's the thing. Most people keep their bedding way longer than they should.

Speaker 4:
[26:10] Sheets start pilling, corners pop off, pillows flatten. You don't realize how much it's affecting your sleep until you finally replace it.

Speaker 2:
[26:18] We upgraded our bed with bowl and branch. Their signature organic cotton sheets, breathable pillows and that waffle blanket. And the difference was immediate. The sheets are incredibly soft, breathable, and they actually get softer after every wash.

Speaker 4:
[26:32] The moment you lie down, the bed just feels better. Cooler, more polished, more inviting.

Speaker 2:
[26:37] Even dogs can tell.

Speaker 4:
[26:39] Apparently. If you think you need a new mattress, you probably just need new bedding. Most people start with the signature sheet set and then quickly upgrade the whole bed. I did and now I'm not going back.

Speaker 2:
[26:51] Upgrade your sleep with bowl and branch. Get 15% off your first order plus free shipping at bowlandbranch.com/raising with code raising.

Speaker 4:
[27:00] That's bowl and branch, B-O-L-L-A-N-D, branch.com/raising, code raising to unlock 15% off. Exclusions apply. Okay. I mean, I feel like we're hopping from subject to subject. There's so many we want you to talk about. So can we move to comparison to social media? Which we know is just a force in the lives of girls. And you have spoken, when did Like Come Out the first time?

Speaker 3:
[27:29] It came out in 2016.

Speaker 4:
[27:31] Wow. Okay. So almost 10 years of speaking directly in such a beautiful way to girls. Can you give parents one important reminder that you would say when it comes to girls in social media and helping ward off some of the loneliness and isolation that we feel like is so significant? Getting the book liked would be one. When does the new one come out?

Speaker 3:
[27:51] It will come out, I think November 2026.

Speaker 4:
[27:53] Okay.

Speaker 3:
[27:54] So they got a 10 year anniversary.

Speaker 4:
[27:55] But they can read the old one for now.

Speaker 3:
[27:56] That's right. They can get the original.

Speaker 4:
[27:57] Yes.

Speaker 3:
[27:58] You know, I think the big thing is just knowing that your race is unique. And comparison is never helpful. You're either going to feel better than somebody or worse than somebody. And neither one of those things is going to build your relationships. These girls are so lonely and they want better relationships. But if you're always comparing yourself, you're either going to feel better or worse. And neither one of those helps your relationships. And so really teaching girls, like I said, you're meant to live authentically. Your story is unique. So running your race that God created you to run, using your gifts and talents and experiences, and then cheering on the girls beside you in the race that they were born to run. And it's hard. And I think we've got to be honest with our girls. Jealousy is natural. I still feel jealous all the time when I'm on social media. But it's like, what do I do with those unhealthy thoughts? Or if I'm having an ugly thought or a jealous thought, it's taking that thought captive and replacing it with a healthy thought. And it's work. But I think that that is what helps us get to the other side. When I'm speaking to girls on this subject, I often say, pray about it. I realized a few years ago, especially with social media, I was having a real problem with jealousy. I still feel it now, but I was having a real struggle with it. And I was like, God, please take this away. Help me feel genuinely happy for people. And it took time, but I could feel him freeing my heart of that until suddenly I was like, I genuinely feel happy for her. I can truly celebrate this, this person who's ahead of me. And so I just think that just knowing it's a journey and giving ourselves grace. But if we want people in our life to cheer us on, if we want to have the balcony people in our life, we got to stay on the balcony for other people too.

Speaker 4:
[29:34] Yes, I love that.

Speaker 2:
[29:35] Okay, Kari, we're talking in this stretch of the podcast about the idea of kids being capable. How would you say you have seen the capability of girls change over the years?

Speaker 3:
[29:47] That's a great question. I think the fear of failure is what makes girls feel uncapable. They're so scared to fail. And so even at younger and younger ages, just they're so scared. And I think social media is just trickling down. And even if your child is not on social media or online, they have friends that are. And it's just everything's just getting earlier and earlier. And when I see the biggest difference, even versus my kids, my youngest is in 10th grade. When my kids were in second and third grade, they were a little bit oblivious. They still had like, if you... I mean, they look back now like, Mom, why did you let me wear that ugly Justice T-shirt? You love that T-shirt. That was your outfit. You wanted to wear that every day. I chose my battles, right? But they weren't so self-conscious and they weren't dressing like the older girls because it wasn't trickling down. But now you see these little second and third graders, and they're dressed like the mamas and they're dressed like the college girls and they feel very self-conscious if everybody's wearing lululemon and they're not. I'm like, second grade? My kids were just blissfully unaware at that age and that was part of their childhood. That was the bliss of childhood. Now I think it's just earlier and earlier that insecurity. Again, wanting to bury the best part of yourself and those natural dreams. This child and them is what they're going to be trying to get back to when they're an adult, and they're trying to remember, what did I really like when I was little? Before I worried about what people would think about me, or if this was cool or not.

Speaker 5:
[31:10] Mm-hmm.

Speaker 4:
[31:11] I love that. Well, so David mentioned the word, but we have a book coming out in the spring called Capable. Which again, the like-heartedness of where we seem to go. Yes. And I know a little bit from talking to you about your mom, who we all three have lost our moms and know how hard that is, but also pictures of your adorable dad. Oh, thank you. And thinking about when you were growing up, what is something your parents did to help you experience how capable you were?

Speaker 3:
[31:44] Yes, that was a great question too. I think the best thing my parents did for me, and this goes back to what we just talked about, they were not scared for us to fail. My parents, and I grew up in the 80s, and so I think I'm like around the same time as our Sissy, but back then, unintentional parenting wasn't really a thing. I mean, we kind of raised ourselves. I was number four in my family, so my little sister and I were like, we were a little bit on our own. So there wasn't much intentional parenting, but I think my parents got the big picture things right. You know, they instilled faith, and they were not scared for us to fail. And because of that, they were always encouraging us to take healthy rest, like run for SGA, be in the beauty walk. They truly did not care if we won. You know, they didn't care. They weren't worried about how it made them look as a parent. And I look back, and I was such a type A anxious child, like I just wanted to succeed at everything. And I think, you know, that gave me the courage to go do it because I had a fear of failure. But the way they treated it, I was like, well, if it doesn't work out, it's not a big deal. And my dad's advice was like, you know, you're going to have to get up in front of people the rest of your life. So even if you don't win the election, getting up and giving a speech in front of the school is going to help you later. And it's funny. I know. And I'm like, you know, you become a writer so you don't have to speak. And little do you know, your book comes out and you're invited to speak. But I remember those first events. Like what made me feel capable of being a speaker is those childhood experiences that I had. But I only did them because my parents took the pressure off of the result. You know, my dad would tell me, you know, do your best and trust God with the results. And that was the best gift that they gave to me. And they did it for my siblings, too. And they, as a result, were not scared to fail also.

Speaker 2:
[33:19] That's awesome.

Speaker 4:
[33:20] A great reminder.

Speaker 2:
[33:21] Okay. Raising four girls yourself. What is one thing you would say you've done to help them feel capable?

Speaker 3:
[33:30] You know, probably taking the lead of my parents and just encourage them to put themselves out there. And it's hard because we live in a very successful community, like y'all do, and nobody likes to fail. But just like it's okay and helping them see, like even if this doesn't work out, this experience is what's going to help you. And I thought of this recently, like one of my daughters, she was my dancer, and so last spring she's like, I just love to dance. Like she wanted to keep dancing in college. So I was like, why don't you try out for Auburn Tiger Pals? She's a freshman at Auburn this year. There were only four spots open. You know, one of the girls who had been to Auburn Tiger Pals was Abby Stockard, who was Miss America. So that kind of brought a lot of attention to the team too. So I think there were even more people trying out than normal. The odds were totally against her. They were against most of the girls trying out, but I wasn't scared for her to fail. I'm like, this experience is going to be great no matter what. Just go do it. And so she did it and she felt good about her tryout. It didn't work out. And that's fine. I'm like, most of the girls trying out are not going to have a spot on the team. But the good thing about it was during that tryout, she met other girls who loved to dance. And she reconnected with them this year, and they just started a dance club at Auburn. And she's been several weeks, I know, because of who she met at the tryout. And she called me one day. She was so happy and excited because she just loves to dance. It wasn't like she'd grown up dying to be in Auburn Tiger Ball. It would have been great, but she just loved to dance. And she's like, I forgot how fun it is just to dance for fun and not have a routine or not have a performance. They're just doing it on Wednesday nights for the fun of it. And I think that is such an example of like, don't be worried if they don't make it. Like God, I tell them, God is gonna use that experience. It might be somebody you meet. It might be a word of wisdom you hear during the tryout. Who knows what it is, but it's not a waste.

Speaker 4:
[35:16] Yes, well, I'm sad we're getting to the end of our questions because I think we could talk to you for so long. For the parent who's listening that is thinking, well, I don't know, is my daughter ready? I certainly need the book, which we would wholeheartedly recommend. What is one practical thing you would say to those parents that could maybe move the needle today if they were to start practicing?

Speaker 3:
[35:37] Yes, you know, I guess going back to discernment, just really talking to your daughter and to your son about discernment, because what we have to realize as parents is we're not always going to be with them, but God is. And I'm like, I'm not in their brain, I'm not in their heart. You know, God has a plan for them. And I'm like, we're supposed to enable it and not interrupt that plan. But teaching them like, you know, that discern for yourself. So even when mom were visiting college campuses, like, you know, think about how it makes you feel when you're on this campus, like what feels like home. And I can't tell you that, you know, this is, I've been to college. This is not my experience. Even when my daughter was going through a rush, everybody assumed, you know, my sisters and I were all the same sorority. Her daughters were the same sorority. They assumed that my daughter would do that too. And I'm like, I'm not putting that pressure on her. I've been in a sorority. I loved it. It was right for me, but it might not be right for her. And so it's like, you know, it's your discernment. Where do you feel like God is calling you to be? Like you want to be where God is calling you to be. And so I think the more we do that for our daughters, teaching them, you know, what decisions bring you peace. And it might be, should I take advanced English or regular English? But just those little decisions, when they're younger, it just trains them to get in that habit of like tuning into their guts. So that when they're older and they're talking to somebody, you're like, this person's nice and I feel bad for thinking this, but something just gives me the willies, you know? Yes. That's that discernment and that's how God speaks to them. And so just really teaching them how to tune into that and know that that's often how God is speaking to us and guiding us. And, you know, we might not have a whole roadmap, but a lot of times he will give us a little bit of like more peace about a certain decision than another decision. And you can look back later and be like, oh, that was definitely the right choice. But at first it was just a little inkling.

Speaker 1:
[37:16] Yes.

Speaker 4:
[37:17] Amen and amen.

Speaker 2:
[37:19] Kari, you do a remarkable job of the way you champion kids and parents and make it feel doable. There's a piece that you exude in that that's extraordinary. In fact, for those of you watching on YouTube, Patches is just leaning into that piece. She just nestled right there beside you.

Speaker 3:
[37:40] I'm taking Patches home.

Speaker 2:
[37:41] I think she's absorbing it.

Speaker 3:
[37:42] She'll fit in my purse.

Speaker 2:
[37:44] Grateful for how you would share that with folks today. We end every episode with something fun and food related. To the conversation we've been sharing, we really believe strongly that the practical of kids helping, contributing to meal preparation and execution is a great way for them to feel capable. So we loved to ask you, was there a meal either from your growing up or one that you loved preparing with your girls in their growing up that was a favorite and would you maybe share the recipe with us?

Speaker 3:
[38:19] Yes. Well, I have to be honest, I am not a great cook, but I'm married to a Greek who comes from a line of great cooks. And so he's the cook in our family.

Speaker 2:
[38:29] Fantastic.

Speaker 3:
[38:30] And so I think it came from when they sold their business and he was home for a couple of years and I'm driving carpools. So he started doing dinner when he can. And so the girls, but he got smart, you know, as they got to be teenagers, he's like, girls, you know, if you want me to cook, come help me. And so they're used to helping their dad. But we did a trip to Greece this summer and took a cooking class in Paros. And it was one of those farm to table cooking classes. And so I will definitely share the recipes with you. We made tzatziki sauce and then this, these zucchini balls, zucchini croquettes that my girls love.

Speaker 4:
[39:03] Oh, yum.

Speaker 3:
[39:03] They're very easy. It's very doable. You know, one just, you grate the zucchini and onions, but it's not hard to make.

Speaker 4:
[39:11] Sounds amazing.

Speaker 3:
[39:11] And it's good to do as a family. So I will definitely give you those recipes. We love it.

Speaker 4:
[39:16] Kari, thank you.

Speaker 3:
[39:18] Thank you.

Speaker 4:
[39:18] Thank you.

Speaker 2:
[39:19] So happy to have you here.

Speaker 4:
[39:20] I think you're changing the game for girls and for parents.

Speaker 3:
[39:23] Well, I feel that way about both of you. I just, I wish I could clone you and put you in every city in America. You're so sweet. What I do in my work, what you're doing matters so much. So Nashville is lucky to have you.

Speaker 4:
[39:34] Well, we're glad to have you for the day. I know.

Speaker 3:
[39:36] Thank you. Thank you.

Speaker 4:
[39:41] David, what a team we have that we get to call friends who help make this podcast possible.

Speaker 2:
[39:47] Chris Starritt, our engineer, our management team at KCH, and we are thrilled to be a part of the That Sounds Fun Network. Our music was created by the insanely talented Dave Haywood of Lady A.

Speaker 4:
[40:01] If this podcast felt helpful to you, please consider subscribing, liking, sharing, all the things.

Speaker 2:
[40:08] We are grateful for you and cheering you on always.

Speaker 5:
[40:21] Every act of change begins with a neighbor, with someone saying, We take care of each other here. In food banks and food pantries, neighbors pack fresh food and dignity into every box, moving food from farms to families through Feeding America's nationwide network. So when that box reaches a home, it carries more than food. It carries a promise, that together we can end hunger. Feeding America, led by neighbors. Give now to end hunger at feedingamerica.org.