transcript

Speaker 1:
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Speaker 2:
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Speaker 3:
[01:01] Pros, just because something on the job runs out doesn't mean you have to. Order it on the Lowe's app. My Lowe's Pro Rewards members get free same day delivery on eligible orders over $25. Get the fasteners, hardware or tools you need to keep the job moving. Order by 2pm and get eligible in stock items delivered right to your job site by 8pm. Members get more at Lowe's. Loyalty programs subject to terms and conditions, subject to availability restrictions and terms at lowes.com/shippingterms. Subject to change.

Speaker 1:
[01:29] Hey Weirdos, I'm Ash.

Speaker 4:
[01:31] And I'm Alaina.

Speaker 1:
[01:32] And this is Morbid.

Speaker 4:
[01:46] It is.

Speaker 1:
[01:46] I'm covered in soy sauce. You guys. No, I am. Did you not see it, Mikie?

Speaker 4:
[01:53] That sounded like a weird like 900 number beginning to like some kind of weird, like you were like, hello, I'm covered in soy sauce.

Speaker 2:
[02:06] Is there a sexy way to say that?

Speaker 4:
[02:08] I mean, hey, big boy. There's something for everyone. I'm covered in soy sauce. I'm not here to king shame.

Speaker 1:
[02:15] Me either. If that's your king, that's niche.

Speaker 4:
[02:17] Then get yourself some soy sauce.

Speaker 1:
[02:19] Yeah, we got Chinese food today and I opened my like packet a little bit. And I was like, it went fine because I was nervous. I was like, oh, I don't want to open it too much because it'll get all over my shirt. And now there's just little like sprays of soil.

Speaker 4:
[02:30] Yeah, you just soy sauced.

Speaker 1:
[02:33] I do love soy sauce, but this is a brand new seven up shirt.

Speaker 4:
[02:37] She is wearing a T-shirt, a seven up, a cherry seven up.

Speaker 1:
[02:40] And it's cute on the back too. It's got like a whole thing going. That's a little about me.

Speaker 4:
[02:45] But now it's got soy sauce on it.

Speaker 1:
[02:46] I know, like the rest of my clothes.

Speaker 4:
[02:48] Yeah, Deb Deb also got a squishy butter, like stress things.

Speaker 1:
[02:53] We're very into like, what are the, are these called like fidget toys?

Speaker 4:
[02:57] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[02:57] Are these considered that? I feel like we're very into these lately.

Speaker 4:
[03:00] They're nice, especially when we're recording, if they don't make sound.

Speaker 1:
[03:04] Yeah, because I had a dumpling that did make it sound like I was shitting myself and Alaina would look over at me and be like, and I'd be like, it's not me, it's the dumpling. I'm not shitting myself in the pod lab. God.

Speaker 4:
[03:17] And she couldn't do it while we were recording because you guys would have heard it.

Speaker 1:
[03:19] I think I probably did a couple of times. Mikie either edited them out or did me dirty. I did a couple of times, like squeeze my dumpling and it sounded like it farted. That's not a euphemism.

Speaker 4:
[03:33] I was going to say, what the fuck is going on right now? What is happening?

Speaker 1:
[03:38] No, it's a literal dumpling, you guys. God damn. All right, we're going to talk about a haunting today. You have shit to say other than that?

Speaker 4:
[03:44] Oh, yeah, I do.

Speaker 5:
[03:46] Oh, yeah, I do.

Speaker 4:
[03:47] So I, there's, if you, okay, hi. You got this. You got this. I just didn't know how to start that. If you, you right there are psyched about The Butcher Legacy, which like, I am, you better be, I am. You can read an excerpt of a chapter of it right now on Crime Reads.

Speaker 1:
[04:08] You can do it.

Speaker 4:
[04:09] I'm going to post it on my socials. We got it in the show notes. You can read a little excerpt. I believe it's chapter four. I'm pretty sure. Not the whole chapter, but it's an excerpt. Say that again, excerpt. And yeah, you get to read some of the books. You can see if it tickles your fancy.

Speaker 1:
[04:25] I bet it will.

Speaker 4:
[04:26] So go do that because it's fun.

Speaker 1:
[04:28] Yeah. Fuck yeah. That's really cool. That's like a huge deal.

Speaker 4:
[04:31] And then if you are on the fence somehow, somehow about pre-ordering THE BUTCHER LEGACY, after you read it, you're going to be like, I'll take 10.

Speaker 1:
[04:39] You're going to be like, I got to hop off on this fence and onto the other side where the grass is greener. And Alaina's book is a plenty.

Speaker 4:
[04:45] What are we doing on the fence? Yeah. Let me jump into the pit of THE BUTCHER LEGACY.

Speaker 1:
[04:50] You'll say, what a loser I was hanging out on that fence.

Speaker 4:
[04:52] You will. And you know what? I'll forgive you because we listen and we don't judge. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[04:55] So go read that excerpt. You should also buy tickets to our Radio City Music Hall. Yeah, do that. I was going to say episode.

Speaker 4:
[05:04] Episode.

Speaker 1:
[05:05] It will be an episode, in fact. Yeah. We have come up with some really good merch ideas that I'm really excited about. And you can only get them there.

Speaker 4:
[05:12] Yeah. Only there and one night only.

Speaker 1:
[05:14] Better get tickets. Only go to Ticketmaster.

Speaker 4:
[05:17] Have some fun segments planned.

Speaker 1:
[05:19] Shit's going to get buck.

Speaker 4:
[05:20] It is. All right. Whatever buck is, it's going to get there.

Speaker 1:
[05:24] You remember that song that I wanted to play at my wedding, but everybody was like, you can't play this at your wedding.

Speaker 4:
[05:28] Yeah, which I didn't understand.

Speaker 1:
[05:29] Yeah, everybody was being mean.

Speaker 4:
[05:31] I supported you.

Speaker 1:
[05:32] You got buck in her. She's dropping to the ground like she ain't got man. It's too much booty for one man to handle. That's a wedding song. The fuck? I would have got buck at my wedding. I mean, I did anyway, but.

Speaker 4:
[05:47] I would have loved that.

Speaker 1:
[05:48] There was an hour of my wedding that did, in fact, get so bucked that the children needed to be removed. My kids went home. Parents were like, we should get them out of here. And those parents included John.

Speaker 4:
[06:00] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[06:01] I was like, bye, Bronco.

Speaker 4:
[06:02] He was like, bye, love you.

Speaker 1:
[06:04] I got to get them out. Go, go, go. I miss my wedding. I want to do it again.

Speaker 4:
[06:09] I miss mine, too.

Speaker 1:
[06:10] Yeah. But I want to do it again, but I wouldn't.

Speaker 4:
[06:13] Yeah, I don't want to, like, plan.

Speaker 1:
[06:14] That's the thing, like the planning of it all.

Speaker 4:
[06:16] Yeah. I don't want to plan a wedding again.

Speaker 1:
[06:18] No.

Speaker 4:
[06:19] But I want to have one again.

Speaker 1:
[06:21] Period.

Speaker 4:
[06:22] You know what? I promise we're going to get into the case, but... Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[06:26] Just tell people when it starts. It might be 19 minutes.

Speaker 4:
[06:28] Yeah. I was going to say someone's timing. Who gives a? It's my show, not yours. But I was listening to... You know how Spotify will give you, like, this band's radio, like a playlist? Yeah. I had a Something Corporate radio, which let me tell you, the used was on there. Oh my God. We had... Oh, it was great. It was total throwback. And then it had, which I was like, I don't know if this one fits, but it kind of does. It had fun on there, which makes sense because he's the singer from The Format. The Format was on it as well, and that was very of that era. But there's a song called Some Nights.

Speaker 1:
[07:06] Is that the one where it's like, some nights I stand in my castle?

Speaker 4:
[07:11] You're going to stand in my castle? Yeah, it's not in my castle. But this song, We Are Young, is the last song that played at my wedding when everyone was clearing out.

Speaker 1:
[07:22] Oh, yeah.

Speaker 4:
[07:23] I was like, oh my God. It immediately brought me back to the, but I was like, oh, that just brought me right back.

Speaker 1:
[07:30] That's a really good ending song. I didn't pick mine and I should have. I forgot what it ended with, but I remember being like, I hate this song.

Speaker 4:
[07:37] No, that's not great.

Speaker 1:
[07:38] It was still fun. I danced to it anyway, but I was like, who the hell played this?

Speaker 4:
[07:41] No, we had a good one and everybody sang it. Hell, yeah, because we were young.

Speaker 1:
[07:46] We were, in fact. I feel like I was so much younger and mine was only two years ago.

Speaker 4:
[07:50] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[07:51] Anyways, we should get to the story.

Speaker 4:
[07:52] Yeah, we'll get to the story. All right. Mark down the number.

Speaker 1:
[07:54] I was just going to say, what's the time? Leave it in.

Speaker 4:
[08:05] We're being so shady.

Speaker 1:
[08:08] I should also mention that I have a cold, so if my energy feels weird, I don't know what to tell you.

Speaker 4:
[08:12] And you know what? Mikie will do his best to make this not as shady as possible.

Speaker 2:
[08:15] I hope he leaves the shade in.

Speaker 1:
[08:16] Leave the shade in.

Speaker 4:
[08:17] Yeah, he'll leave some of it. He'll leave some of it.

Speaker 1:
[08:20] All right, so we are going to be talking about the Perron family haunting today, which apparently, apparently, was the inspiration for The Conjuring movies.

Speaker 4:
[08:29] Oh!

Speaker 1:
[08:29] Like the first one at least.

Speaker 4:
[08:31] Dang.

Speaker 1:
[08:32] Yeah. Now, weirdly enough, from Conjuring to this, the story of the Perron haunting begins with a simple Catholic wedding.

Speaker 4:
[08:39] Oh, shit.

Speaker 1:
[08:39] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[08:40] All right. Let's start there.

Speaker 1:
[08:41] Let's start at the wedding. Roger and Carolyn Perron got married in 1957. Like a lot of people in New England, Roger grew up in a devoutly Catholic household. We all know what that's like around here.

Speaker 4:
[08:51] They've done that.

Speaker 1:
[08:52] Mine wasn't devout.

Speaker 4:
[08:53] Mine was not devout.

Speaker 1:
[08:54] I knew a lot of Catholic biddies.

Speaker 4:
[08:57] Yeah. We got lots of Catholic biddies around here.

Speaker 1:
[09:00] They're always running around. I don't know what they say. But anyway, I was like, they're always running around saying like, They're just always running around. You know what they're always running around saying? They're always running around saying, and also with you.

Speaker 4:
[09:11] Yes, it's true. They're always saying Jesus, Mary and Joseph.

Speaker 1:
[09:14] And all my sainted sisters.

Speaker 4:
[09:16] That's what my dad says at least.

Speaker 1:
[09:18] Now, Carolyn grew up somewhat Christian, but she and her family really weren't deeply steeped in religion by any means. And as she got older, she was really less interested in organized religion. But at the same time, she knew it was important to her husband and even more important to his mother. So she embraced Catholicism to keep the peace between herself and her new mother-in-law. She said, sure, I'll have a Catholic wedding. Now, they wasted no time starting a family. And within a year, Carolyn was pregnant with their first child, Andrea. Not long after Andrea was born, Carolyn was pregnant again. And it was obvious that if their family was going to continue to grow like this, they were going to need a bigger house. So they moved to Willimantic, Connecticut, which is a small city in the southeastern part of the state. Over the next few years, they continued to grow and grow as a family, starting with Nancy, who was followed by Christine, and then Cynthia, and then finally, April.

Speaker 4:
[10:09] Whoa.

Speaker 1:
[10:10] So five gals.

Speaker 4:
[10:11] Five gals.

Speaker 1:
[10:12] Oh, the dream. I hope I have five.

Speaker 4:
[10:13] I have three gals.

Speaker 1:
[10:15] I know.

Speaker 4:
[10:15] And five sounds like a lot.

Speaker 1:
[10:17] You have five girls because you have the pups.

Speaker 4:
[10:18] That's true.

Speaker 1:
[10:20] Yeah, exactly. In her memoirs, their oldest daughter, Andrea, describes her mother as approaching each of her daughters with, quote, a usual thoughtful and kind consideration of each child. I love that. Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[10:32] Wow. What a parenting win. Right.

Speaker 1:
[10:34] That's the thing. They were all very close in age and they, you know, obviously had a lot in common. But Carolyn did her best to try to recognize their individuality. And she praised their effort. She minimally criticized them like she was a good mama. Now, their dad, on the other hand, he was less encouraging and he wasn't that emotionally available. He also worked as a long-haul trucker. So there were just periods where he wasn't home.

Speaker 4:
[10:56] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[10:57] So I think that was kind of just like by design. Not like he designed it to not be home, but just like he wasn't always available because he was literally across.

Speaker 4:
[11:05] Because he was literally in a truck across the state.

Speaker 1:
[11:07] Yes. Thank you. Author Joe Nickell, we will link his book in the show notes, wrote, it was a fact that harmed his marriage and kept him largely a stranger to his children. Which is very sad.

Speaker 4:
[11:17] That is sad.

Speaker 1:
[11:18] I know. Now, Andrea is a lot less negative though in framing her father. But her description of him, at least in their younger years, was a lot less warm than her memories of her mother. She wrote, his acknowledgments were always more subdued and understated, always a critical mention of room for improvement, though meaningful nonetheless. So obviously their mom was home more so they were a bit closer with her. Yeah, of course. With their father out of the house more often than not, and their mom responsible for five young kids, the girls kind of turned to each other obviously first as playmates, but then as they grew up, they kind of became caregivers for one another, like the older girls helped with the younger girls and so on and so forth. This dynamic seemed to suit Carolyn more than the typical parent-child relationship. Andrea said that she was less a caretaker and more a playmate. She took great pleasure in their company. It's just like six besties living in a house.

Speaker 4:
[12:06] Hell yeah.

Speaker 1:
[12:08] The big family and the need for some extra help, Roger and Carolyn ended up moving back to Rhode Island in 1964, and they settled in a small Cape-style house in Cumberland, where the schools were good and they both had family nearby if they needed a sitter, yada yada. The Perron kids remember their early life there fondly. They said it was an idyllic experience. But by 1970, their idyllic life started to feel like it was falling apart all around them.

Speaker 4:
[12:33] Uh-oh.

Speaker 1:
[12:34] So by 1970, their idyllic life started to kind of feel like it was falling apart all around them. The first signal that things were changing for the family came in the form of a tragedy just days after summer vacation started in 1970. A few months earlier, Roger and Carolyn had bought a puppy that Carolyn inexplicably named Bathsheba.

Speaker 4:
[12:53] I love that a lot.

Speaker 1:
[12:54] Yeah, she said that she just pulled that name from the ether, I guess.

Speaker 4:
[12:57] Okay.

Speaker 1:
[12:58] No reason.

Speaker 4:
[12:58] Yeah, you just look at the dog and you're like, Bathsheba.

Speaker 1:
[13:01] It's interesting because Bathsheba, I looked a little bit into her origins and she had five kids.

Speaker 4:
[13:07] Oh, shit.

Speaker 1:
[13:08] And so did Carolyn, so I was like, weird. There's also another part that you're like, really? Interesting. When things align. So one afternoon, Andrea begged her mom to let her take Bathsheba for a while. And Carolyn was like, go for it. With her sisters by her side, Andrea held on tight to the leash and Bathsheba walked obediently beside her for a while. Trigger warning, we're going to talk about animal death. The girls had been walking for a bit when a car full of teenagers came racing up over a hill with no warning. And Andrea remembered they must have been cheerleaders because they were quote, shouting out something in unison while shaking brightly colored tassels from their open windows.

Speaker 4:
[13:47] Wow, get it together.

Speaker 1:
[13:49] Stop speeding and get your fucking head in the window.

Speaker 4:
[13:51] Just get it together.

Speaker 1:
[13:52] Period.

Speaker 4:
[13:53] Truly.

Speaker 1:
[13:53] To surmise.

Speaker 4:
[13:55] Get it together.

Speaker 1:
[13:56] Thank you. Bathsheba ended up running into the street after the car. Like probably trying to protect the girls.

Speaker 4:
[14:01] Yeah, or seeing like the brightly colored things.

Speaker 1:
[14:03] Yeah, like thinking it was like a toy or like a treat or something. Now luckily, she made it to the other side of the street safely. But in a panic, Andrea called out for her to come back immediately and didn't check to see if there was any cars coming. And Bathsheba did as she was told and was tragically struck by an elderly couple who never saw her walking into the street.

Speaker 4:
[14:23] Oh, that makes my heart hurt.

Speaker 1:
[14:25] It's horrific.

Speaker 4:
[14:25] Poor elderly people, too.

Speaker 1:
[14:27] And all five girls just watching their puppy.

Speaker 4:
[14:32] Oh, that'll fuck you up.

Speaker 1:
[14:33] Yeah, big time.

Speaker 4:
[14:34] That's rough.

Speaker 1:
[14:35] That's the thing. Well, and the other thing was Carolyn and Roger brought the dog home and they were like, obviously, this is a pet for the whole family. But there was a bond between Andrea and Bathsheba like immediately. Like, they really vibed together and now her constant companion was ripped away in what felt like impossible circumstances. You know, those feelings when you're just like, oh, my God, I just want to rewind time so badly. Even worse, she couldn't help but feel responsible. If she hadn't told Bathsheba to come back across the street, she felt she probably wouldn't have been struck by the car. So obviously, this is a devastating incident. All five of the girls were at the scene when she was hit. So they ran home immediately and they explained to their mom what had happened, and Carolyn was just as devastated. Also, it wasn't just the loss of a pet for her, but she was heartbroken for her children and worried that they had seen something so traumatizing. And there was also this weird underlying feeling that Bathsheba's death signaled something about the subtle changes in their community. Things were shifting that summer. If that carload of teenagers had actually been following the law and not yelling and hanging out of their fucking windows, maybe that entire scene wouldn't have happened. So in the weeks that followed, everyone in the family dealt with their grief in their own ways. But Andrea seemed to struggle more than the other kids. She was wracked with an intense sense of guilt. And she was usually like a very chatty outgoing girl. But this just made her kind of like pull into herself. The shift in her personality was really concerning for Carolyn. But at the same time, there were other things going on that were kind of occupying most of her attention. She couldn't pinpoint exactly when things started to change. But that summer, Cumberland, Rhode Island, was actually experiencing kind of a juvenile crime wave.

Speaker 4:
[16:17] Wow.

Speaker 1:
[16:17] Which was wild.

Speaker 4:
[16:18] The hell?

Speaker 1:
[16:19] Yeah. Boys around the neighborhood, who were like once friendly, awkward little kids, had started to feel kind of menacing and dangerous.

Speaker 4:
[16:26] Ew.

Speaker 1:
[16:26] And according to Andrea, a list of minor and major infractions included a number of petty thefts, gangland assaults on the schoolyard playground, from vicious pranks to more threatening encounters with rumors of weapons involved.

Speaker 4:
[16:38] Damn.

Speaker 1:
[16:38] And things took a very serious turn when, again, according to Andrea, there was a, quote, attempted sexual assault on a young girl who had been gagged and bound to playground equipment at their elementary school.

Speaker 2:
[16:50] What the fuck?

Speaker 1:
[16:51] Yeah. So shit was getting fucking gnarly.

Speaker 4:
[16:53] I say it again. Get it together.

Speaker 1:
[16:56] Get it together. What the fuck? Between 1970 and 1974, violent crime in Rhode Island, in Cumberland, Rhode Island, increased more than 60 percent. So this wasn't just a feeling that something weird was happening.

Speaker 4:
[17:09] It was back up.

Speaker 1:
[17:11] Shit was going on and the city was becoming more dangerous.

Speaker 4:
[17:14] Damn.

Speaker 1:
[17:14] So by the time the summer had come to an end, the traumatic events of the season, which were capped off by the death of the family's cat and a break-in at their house.

Speaker 4:
[17:22] Oh my God.

Speaker 1:
[17:23] It had all been way more than Carolyn could tolerate.

Speaker 4:
[17:26] Yeah, that's a lot.

Speaker 1:
[17:27] When they had moved back to Rhode Island six years earlier, it was to put down roots to raise their family in a safe, quiet community with family nearby. But now this community did not feel safe, and the home in town had multiple tragic memories that Carolyn wanted to shield her kids from. To make matters worse, with Roger out on the road more often than not, the growing stress and anxiety of all of this fell solely on Carolyn to manage. So she was just really going through it. So finally, when Roger got back from a job that fall, she sat him down at the kitchen table, and she basically said in no uncertain terms, she was straight up not having a good time in Cumberland, Rhode Island.

Speaker 4:
[18:02] I am not having a good time.

Speaker 1:
[18:03] Straight up not having a good time.

Speaker 4:
[18:06] Not killing it.

Speaker 1:
[18:07] She said, it's not for us out here in these streets, and I would like to sell this house and move into the country.

Speaker 4:
[18:11] This place is harshing my mellow.

Speaker 1:
[18:13] It's harshing the vibes.

Speaker 4:
[18:14] And I need to get out.

Speaker 1:
[18:15] So the vibes are rancid.

Speaker 4:
[18:17] So harsh.

Speaker 1:
[18:18] There's this new thing that the kids are saying.

Speaker 4:
[18:20] I don't know.

Speaker 1:
[18:21] It's like aura-mogging or something like that.

Speaker 4:
[18:24] Just what?

Speaker 1:
[18:25] Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 4:
[18:26] How do you mog someone's aura?

Speaker 1:
[18:28] I don't even know if it's aura-mogging. It's aura-something. I got to look this up really quick. What are the Gen Zs saying about auras?

Speaker 4:
[18:38] What do the Gen Zs have to say about auras?

Speaker 1:
[18:40] Aura-farming, that's what it is.

Speaker 4:
[18:42] Aura-farming?

Speaker 1:
[18:44] Aura-farming is the act of consciously and sometimes desperately trying to boost one's cool image. It is frequently used in a derogatory way to describe somebody as trying too hard, often seen as cringe.

Speaker 4:
[18:56] You know what's trying too hard?

Speaker 1:
[18:57] It's saying aura-farming.

Speaker 4:
[18:59] Coming up with a term called aura-farming.

Speaker 1:
[19:01] Wait, you know what? I am kind of obsessed with them.

Speaker 4:
[19:03] Stop caring.

Speaker 1:
[19:05] Whatever. You know what I'm obsessed with though?

Speaker 4:
[19:07] What?

Speaker 1:
[19:08] Aura-maxing.

Speaker 4:
[19:10] I need all the maxing to stop. I've heard too much. You guys are all talking about fiber-maxing. We are fiber-maxing. I'm hearing idiots on the internet talking about looks-maxing. I'm hearing whatever the fucking, is it aura-maxing?

Speaker 1:
[19:21] Aura-maxing.

Speaker 4:
[19:22] Looks-maxing is apparently all these-

Speaker 1:
[19:24] Is that like a glow-up?

Speaker 4:
[19:25] But it's like extreme, I think, like crazy, wild things.

Speaker 1:
[19:29] I like aura-maxing.

Speaker 4:
[19:30] I think everyone just needs to chill the fuck out.

Speaker 1:
[19:33] What about chill out, max in, relax in, all cool?

Speaker 4:
[19:35] Shooting some b-ball outside of the school.

Speaker 1:
[19:36] Is that good?

Speaker 4:
[19:37] Yeah, that is cool. All right. That's what I mean.

Speaker 1:
[19:40] Yeah, I was just going to say that Cumberland, Rhode Island was not aura-maxing at this time.

Speaker 4:
[19:44] It was not aura-maxing.

Speaker 1:
[19:45] In case there's any Gen Zs listening, let me translate that for you.

Speaker 4:
[19:48] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[19:48] There was.

Speaker 4:
[19:49] Yeah, it was not aura-maxing.

Speaker 1:
[19:50] So when Carolyn first made her case to Roger, he was like, I don't really know if we're in the financial position to do that. This feels very impulsive. And he was like, I also don't think a few bad experiences are sufficient enough reason to leave.

Speaker 4:
[20:03] He's like, is the crime rate though?

Speaker 1:
[20:06] I was like, the home invasion?

Speaker 4:
[20:08] Is the crime?

Speaker 1:
[20:09] Is the crime of it all upsetting to you, Roger?

Speaker 4:
[20:12] That would bum me out.

Speaker 1:
[20:12] So by the time they reached, by the time they got to bed that night, they reached an impasse. There was no immediate solution. And as far as Roger was concerned, he said there was no point on dwelling what they couldn't change. It's like, well, you could, you can change your surroundings.

Speaker 4:
[20:26] You can change whatever you want to change.

Speaker 1:
[20:27] You can change your hair and you can change your clothes and you can change your mind and that's the way it goes. Exactly. And after that-

Speaker 4:
[20:32] Ask Hillary.

Speaker 1:
[20:33] No, that's, is that, that's not Hillary, that's Hannah.

Speaker 4:
[20:37] No, that's Hillary.

Speaker 1:
[20:38] That's Hillary? Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[20:39] You can change your mind if you wanna.

Speaker 1:
[20:42] I was saying, you can change your hair and you can change your clothes. You can change your mind and that's the way it goes.

Speaker 4:
[20:48] So what is Hillary's?

Speaker 1:
[20:50] She says, you can change your mind if you wanna. You can act real tough. But I've heard enough.

Speaker 4:
[20:59] I'll trust you on this one because I know I'm right. Yeah. Yeah. I know you're right here.

Speaker 1:
[21:03] And the Hannah Montana resurgence like put that into my head.

Speaker 4:
[21:05] See, and I think I'm, I'm for the Hillary Duff resurgence. Yeah. I had that on the brain.

Speaker 1:
[21:10] She's not resurgent at this very moment. Hannah Montana is resurgent at this very moment.

Speaker 4:
[21:14] I think Hillary's on fucking tour.

Speaker 1:
[21:16] Is she?

Speaker 4:
[21:16] I would go to that. She's resurgent.

Speaker 1:
[21:18] I would go to that. Yeah, she's resurgent. We can't bring John though, because one time they made eye contact.

Speaker 4:
[21:22] Yeah, he claimed that one time at a concert when he was younger. Yes, he went to a Hillary Duff concert.

Speaker 1:
[21:27] He took his niece, right?

Speaker 4:
[21:28] No, he dated a girl.

Speaker 1:
[21:30] Oh, he dated a girl.

Speaker 4:
[21:32] That had him going to Hillary Duff concerts. You know who you are. Just kidding. No, you should be. I'm just kidding. We have three children and have been married. Yeah, that's fine. But we still hate her. Real girl shit. Yeah. But I'm totally kidding.

Speaker 1:
[21:46] It's a joke.

Speaker 4:
[21:47] But he went to... We're like, this is a joke. Please know that. Yeah, she made him go to a Hillary Duff concert. And he said, he claims to this day... I believe him. So Hillary, if you're listening, back off, bitch.

Speaker 1:
[22:01] I understand him because I made eye contact with Harry Styles at a Harry Styles concert. And he definitely sang to me for a solid second.

Speaker 4:
[22:08] I know. I'm the only one who has not had this experience.

Speaker 1:
[22:10] Here's the thing, too. I have photographic evidence of Harry Styles looking at me. He's looking right at my camera and his sexy little jumpsuit.

Speaker 4:
[22:16] See, when John won, it was a time before the camera.

Speaker 1:
[22:19] Yeah. So, but you know what? I believe as somebody who's made eye contact with a handsome fella slash beautiful lady.

Speaker 4:
[22:27] Yeah. You know, you know, you know, I haven't had that experience. I need to add that to my repertoire.

Speaker 1:
[22:32] I bet Tobias has made eye contact with you, but you just can't see because contacts and makeup and prosthetics. I got you.

Speaker 4:
[22:39] I'll hold on to that.

Speaker 1:
[22:39] I love these episodes because they get so loosey goosey.

Speaker 4:
[22:42] They do. I love these.

Speaker 1:
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Speaker 1:
[25:08] So Roger said, hell no, Carolyn, we can't afford that and who cares.

Speaker 4:
[25:12] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[25:12] But Carolyn started keeping her anxieties to herself and she didn't bring up moving again. And a few days later Roger was back on the road.

Speaker 4:
[25:19] Oh no.

Speaker 1:
[25:20] According to Andrea, her father's latest trip, quote, kept him away just long enough for the universe to intervene on their behalf.

Speaker 4:
[25:26] Oh boy.

Speaker 1:
[25:26] Which I fucking love. So while waiting for one of her daughter's music lessons to end, Carolyn was just flicking through a copy of The Woonsocket Call and just mulling along.

Speaker 4:
[25:36] Just mulling along.

Speaker 1:
[25:37] Flipping through the real estate section, she came across a listing for a nine room colonial farmhouse in Harrisville on 200 acres of land for $75,000.

Speaker 4:
[25:50] Oh, give it to me.

Speaker 1:
[25:52] Which also-

Speaker 4:
[25:52] Give it to me.

Speaker 1:
[25:53] That would be $600,000.

Speaker 4:
[25:56] Damn.

Speaker 1:
[25:57] Or is it 600?

Speaker 4:
[25:58] Hold on.

Speaker 1:
[25:59] I'll be back. So yeah, it was like $600,000, like give or take, which honestly, for 200 acres of land, I'd do that if I could, you know? That's sick. So for the rest of the afternoon, Carolyn just couldn't help but think that that was the perfect opportunity. And the fact that she had come across it in the paper was a sign that it was the house for them.

Speaker 4:
[26:25] Hell yeah.

Speaker 1:
[26:26] Despite Roger having emphatically told her that they literally did not have the money to move, that night Carolyn said, 1-800-LISTING-AGENT, and she scheduled a showing for the following day. I love that. I love it.

Speaker 4:
[26:39] You want it?

Speaker 1:
[26:40] Go get it.

Speaker 4:
[26:41] Yeah. I want to see it.

Speaker 1:
[26:42] It's the Conjuring House.

Speaker 4:
[26:43] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[26:44] Yeah. Oh, I thought you were saying to me, I want to see the house. I was like, it's the Conjuring House.

Speaker 4:
[26:48] Thank you for that. You said you want to see it. You can. It's the Conjuring House. No, I would just be like, I want to see it.

Speaker 1:
[26:54] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[26:55] Show it to me.

Speaker 1:
[26:56] Yeah. Show me to me, Rachel.

Speaker 4:
[26:57] There it is. I was waiting for it.

Speaker 1:
[26:58] I know you were. So Carolyn met the realtor the following morning and they drove out to Harrisville together. Along the way, she gazed longingly out the window at what was to her, a quaint idyllic, beautiful town perfect to raise her daughters in.

Speaker 4:
[27:10] Oh, it's going to be amazing.

Speaker 1:
[27:11] Yeah, it was exactly what she wanted for her family.

Speaker 4:
[27:13] Yeah, I don't think anything bad is going to happen.

Speaker 1:
[27:15] No, it's not.

Speaker 4:
[27:16] It's just a nice story.

Speaker 1:
[27:17] It's gorgeous. She's just like gazing out the window like she's in a music video.

Speaker 4:
[27:20] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[27:21] Do you remember when it would rain and you were sitting in the back seat and you'd just be like, I'm in a music video right now?

Speaker 4:
[27:25] Oh, yeah. Anybody who isn't the main character in their own music videos, movies, TV shows all the time, lies. Do it. You're either lying or you need to do it.

Speaker 1:
[27:34] Yeah. Wims of Fire life. So things only got better when they got to the house. There were apple trees in the yard, a lush green lawn. The house itself was this picturesque colonial home. According to the groundskeeper, the house was actually built by a master shipwright in 1736. That's sick. It was made of solid oak. Oh, hell yeah. It was thanks to that masterful construction and solid materials that the house managed to survive during so many devastating hurricane seasons that destroyed a lot of the other colonials in town.

Speaker 4:
[28:06] It had legs.

Speaker 1:
[28:07] It had legs. By the time they finished storing the house, Carolyn was pretty much sold that it was hers, but the groundskeeper is the one who really convinced her. After giving her a tour of the property, he walked both women back to the car, and he shook Carolyn's hand, and he gave her a genuine look of kindness and said, This is a wonderful place to raise a family.

Speaker 4:
[28:27] Oh, that would have sold me.

Speaker 1:
[28:28] Me too. They hadn't even closed their doors, and Carolyn was reaching into that purse for her checkbook, and she said to the realtor, My husband is out of town. How much does it take to hold this place?

Speaker 4:
[28:39] Good. Honestly, good for her.

Speaker 1:
[28:41] I'm obsessed.

Speaker 4:
[28:42] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[28:42] I'm absolutely obsessed.

Speaker 4:
[28:43] Because at least you got to make sure nobody else gets it. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[28:46] So Andrea's account of how they came to live in the house has this mystical quality that strongly suggests some unseen force had intervened to ensure that Carolyn found the listing, saw the house, and made the down payment. As a signs girlie myself, I love that Carolyn thought this was the universe.

Speaker 4:
[29:01] Oh, hell yeah.

Speaker 1:
[29:02] And maybe it was. The universe wants to teach you things. Maybe this was like her Saturn return or something.

Speaker 4:
[29:08] There you go.

Speaker 1:
[29:08] Probably not. Maybe. I don't know.

Speaker 4:
[29:09] But maybe.

Speaker 1:
[29:10] She had five kids at this point, but it was a different time. Anyways, unfortunately for Carolyn, Roger was upset. He was like, hey, it's the 70s. You can't spend money without me.

Speaker 4:
[29:19] I mean, here's the thing. You should probably talk together if you're going to buy a house. For sure.

Speaker 1:
[29:24] But she tried to talk to him and he wasn't listening. What's a woman to do?

Speaker 4:
[29:29] Were steps taken that maybe should have waited? Yeah. But like, he's in a truck.

Speaker 1:
[29:34] What was she meant to do?

Speaker 4:
[29:35] We listen and we don't judge. Period.

Speaker 1:
[29:37] So more than mad, he also just wasn't interested in hearing about the house or the beautiful grounds or how perfectly suited it was for their family. He was interested in one thing only. How the fuck they were going to get that check back from the realtor.

Speaker 4:
[29:48] Oh, no.

Speaker 1:
[29:49] But Carolyn persisted. She was like, no, this is the right decision for us. Roger, listen to me.

Speaker 4:
[29:54] Listen, Roger.

Speaker 1:
[29:55] And eventually he yielded and he agreed to tour the house with her.

Speaker 4:
[29:59] Okay.

Speaker 1:
[29:59] He said, I'm not saying we're moving, but I'll go look at it. Yeah. So the next day, the entire family piled into the car and they headed back to Harrisville to see the house. Once again, they were met by the groundskeeper, Mr. Kenyon, who Roger was immediately charmed by and very endeared to. The girls ran off to play in the yard and Mr. Kenyon showed the parents the house. And although he was still pretty pissed at his wife for being so impulsive and completely disregarding his wishes on the matter, Roger did have to admit it was a pretty great house.

Speaker 4:
[30:27] It is.

Speaker 1:
[30:28] Yeah. The interior was just as beautiful and stately as the exterior. It was more than adequate for their family. And a few hundred yards away, a stream ran through the woods with water clear enough for Roger to legit see little fishy swimming beneath the surface.

Speaker 4:
[30:42] Little fishies?

Speaker 1:
[30:43] It was perfect.

Speaker 4:
[30:44] It was picturesque.

Speaker 1:
[30:46] So back at home that night, they put the girls to bed and they sat down to discuss everything. For every glowing word that Carolyn had for the house, Roger offered a critique though. He was not quite sold yet. She brought up the crystal clear stream and the natural spring on the property. And he pointed out the ancient plumbing and the fact that there was only one bathroom in the entire fucking house. But no matter- That would be rough. That would be rough. But no matter how pragmatic he was or how many reasonable concerns he had, in the end, there was no getting around the fact that he was just as impressed with the house as Carolyn was. And he agreed that night, okay, we'll figure it out. Let's do it.

Speaker 4:
[31:23] Let's go.

Speaker 1:
[31:24] So after lots of planning, lots of preparation, moving day finally arrived the second week of January 1971. You couldn't pay me money to move in New England in January.

Speaker 4:
[31:33] No.

Speaker 1:
[31:34] Why?

Speaker 4:
[31:34] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[31:35] Wait till at least March.

Speaker 4:
[31:37] That's the real horror here.

Speaker 1:
[31:39] It really is. Moving in January.

Speaker 4:
[31:41] What?

Speaker 1:
[31:42] So having spent everything on the down payment for the house, there was no money to hire movers. But luckily, friends and family pitched in to help the parents get settled into their new house. As the last pieces of furniture were being carried inside, Mr. Kenyon, the groundskeeper, appeared at the door to say hello and welcome everybody. He was charming as ever, and Roger appreciated having somebody nearby who was familiar with the property. But before he left that afternoon, Mr. Kenyon said something that would haunt Roger in the days and weeks to come. He said, Leave the lights on at night. Better to light a candle than to curse the darkness.

Speaker 4:
[32:17] Okay, that might send me.

Speaker 1:
[32:19] That would fuck me up.

Speaker 4:
[32:20] That would send me.

Speaker 1:
[32:21] I'd be like, what the do you mean?

Speaker 4:
[32:22] I don't know where it would send me, but it would send me.

Speaker 1:
[32:23] It would send me away.

Speaker 4:
[32:24] Yeah. Far away.

Speaker 1:
[32:26] It would send me on my way. On my way. On my way. Be out of there.

Speaker 4:
[32:31] Out of there. No, thank you.

Speaker 1:
[32:32] I'd be like, I'd like to leave now.

Speaker 4:
[32:34] Also, I'm pretty sure the Conjuring House is like closed. Really? Yeah. I think it like they...

Speaker 1:
[32:41] Is it in between owners? Is that why? Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[32:43] I think they don't have their business license was like revoked. Oh. And then I think it was going up for auction.

Speaker 1:
[32:51] It definitely was because...

Speaker 4:
[32:53] Wasn't some tool trying to buy it?

Speaker 1:
[32:55] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[32:55] I don't remember who. I do. And I do too. But I don't remember like...

Speaker 1:
[33:05] My wife, we're looking at you.

Speaker 4:
[33:06] But I don't see who... I don't see like what happened. I just looked online. I don't know what the results of all that was.

Speaker 1:
[33:13] Interesting.

Speaker 4:
[33:14] I'm just interested now. I'm like, what's going on?

Speaker 1:
[33:16] You're going to buy it?

Speaker 4:
[33:18] Give me the Conjuring.

Speaker 1:
[33:19] You're like, hey, can I see a haunted location? I see some paperwork.

Speaker 4:
[33:22] What? Didn't Sam and Colby buy a haunted location?

Speaker 1:
[33:25] They bought a school.

Speaker 4:
[33:26] I want to.

Speaker 1:
[33:28] So, yeah, the comment, I guess, didn't really necessarily come off as menacing to Roger anyway. But something about it put Roger off and he was very uncomfortable.

Speaker 4:
[33:36] Something about it.

Speaker 1:
[33:38] Probably just the comment.

Speaker 4:
[33:39] Yeah, probably just the content, the whole comment.

Speaker 1:
[33:41] Leave the lights on at night. I'd be like, first of all, that's expensive, Mr. Kenyon.

Speaker 4:
[33:45] That's when he goes to walk and you go, ah, ah, ah, yeah. What does that mean?

Speaker 1:
[33:49] And you do the little finger wag.

Speaker 4:
[33:50] I'd be like, wait a minute, wait a minute.

Speaker 1:
[33:53] Hold up, brother. Brother, brother, brother, what's that? So from the moment that they, the moment.

Speaker 4:
[34:03] This is an unhinged episode. This is the conjuring in here.

Speaker 1:
[34:08] They moved into the old farmhouse. Carolyn was very surprised by how much noise that it made, like when everything was quiet.

Speaker 4:
[34:15] The house? Yeah. Oh.

Speaker 1:
[34:17] It wasn't that surprising. They moved in during the coldest part of the year, and every New Englander obviously knows like your house is going to be creaking and cracking.

Speaker 4:
[34:24] The clinging, the clanging, the creaking, the cracking.

Speaker 1:
[34:27] Plumbing, old floors, what have you.

Speaker 4:
[34:29] Oh, yeah. I used to love when our family from like out of town, like John's family from out of town would come stay over and they were like, what the fuck is that? I was like, just house.

Speaker 1:
[34:36] Just the pipes.

Speaker 4:
[34:36] It's just house.

Speaker 1:
[34:37] The house is settling.

Speaker 4:
[34:38] Don't worry about it.

Speaker 1:
[34:38] There's like a random crack in our wall. I was like, what the fuck is that? And Drew goes, I don't know. The house settled.

Speaker 4:
[34:43] I was like, oh, okay. That's good. Like, I don't know. It's New England.

Speaker 1:
[34:46] But even by those standards, New England standards, the Greeks ingrowns from the old house were definitely eerie. And like they happened much more frequently than the usual one.

Speaker 4:
[34:55] The house was like, oh, sort of. And they were like, that's new.

Speaker 1:
[34:59] They're like, huh. Now, it was all the more noticeable since they never got any keys to the house when they moved in. Yeah. Mr. Kenyon just was like, I never locked the doors. No need. Nobody will bother you here.

Speaker 4:
[35:12] OK, I love that. But like, I hate that.

Speaker 1:
[35:14] I love that nobody will bother me, but I'd like some keys, please.

Speaker 4:
[35:17] But why?

Speaker 1:
[35:18] It's my question. They had gone through a break-in.

Speaker 4:
[35:22] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[35:22] I'm going to lock everything.

Speaker 4:
[35:24] Yeah. If you're buying somewhere.

Speaker 1:
[35:28] To get away from crime.

Speaker 4:
[35:29] Yeah. Get keys. Or even if you're not moving there to get away from crime, if you're moving into a place, get keys.

Speaker 1:
[35:36] And then change the locks.

Speaker 4:
[35:38] Yeah, definitely get those keys.

Speaker 1:
[35:39] Now, a few weeks after they moved in, Carolyn was surprised to learn that it wasn't just her who had been hearing strange sounds in the house. One day, while she was home alone with April, who was the youngest daughter, April was like, yeah, I hear shit upstairs all the time.

Speaker 4:
[35:52] She was like, yeah, shit's going crazy.

Speaker 1:
[35:53] And she was like, I think she was like four or five.

Speaker 4:
[35:56] And she literally said like, shit's going crazy.

Speaker 1:
[35:58] She was like, mom, shit is popping the fuck off upstairs. The comment caught Carolyn off guard. And she didn't really know what to respond because she doesn't want to scare her daughter. But she's like, oh, cool. You're hearing it too.

Speaker 4:
[36:09] She's like, where'd you learn those words?

Speaker 1:
[36:12] She's like, damn, I better get the Dawn dish soap out. So by the time she got around to asking what kind of things April had heard in her room, April was like distracted with something else because she's a kid. She's got to go learn new swear words.

Speaker 4:
[36:22] She's got shit to do.

Speaker 1:
[36:24] So she said that too. She's like, I've shit to do, mom. So one February day when the older girls were all at school and Carolyn was home with April, she had just put April down for a nap and she got this eerie feeling. She got used to all the noise that the house made, the creaking, the popping, the sat, the locking, the dropping. They'd also heard hush talking from rooms.

Speaker 4:
[36:47] My parents also hear that.

Speaker 1:
[36:48] We hear that too. No, I can't even say that that's just them. I used to hear that when I was at home. So they were used to that. But this time something was different. It felt like there was somebody else in the house with her, but it was a presence that she couldn't see, but she could for sure feel. She said the air felt heavy, thick and dark. So she closed her eyes and she tried to push the heavy feeling away. And within a few minutes it passed. Later that afternoon, after the girls got home from school, Carolyn gave them some milk and cookies and she was like, go play like over here so you don't wake April up because she's still sleeping. So doing as they were told, they went to the living room to play a game and eat their snack, but they were interrupted a few minutes later by an unhappy and obviously still sleepy April. And she wanted to know who the fuck shook me in my goddamn sleep like that. Thinking that their sister was overtired or just being silly. The other girls laughed, but they were immediately admonished by Carolyn, who was like not very happy that April was up from her nap that early. So she had been in the kitchen next to the living room. She could see and hear the girls very clearly. Like she knew all four of them were down there playing. So she also knew that none of them had gone upstairs to wake up April. So she pulled April onto her lap and she's trying to soothe her. She's like, nobody touched you while you were asleep. Like none of the girls went into your room. It was probably just a bad dream. That technique was usually successful. But on that afternoon, April could not be soothed. She was very upset. She insisted that one of her sisters had slapped her and pushed her while she was sleeping and then ran out of the room. And she said she could even hear their footsteps as they fled into the hallway.

Speaker 4:
[38:20] That's terrifying.

Speaker 1:
[38:21] Yeah. So seeing that April was genuinely upset and like inconsolable at this point with what she'd experienced, the rest of the girls got more serious and they joined in trying to help calm her down. They all told her, none of us went into her room, like you probably were dreaming. But after a while, even Carolyn wasn't so sure that April was dreaming. Her mind flashed back to the feeling that she had earlier that day, putting April down for her nap, that she wasn't alone in the room. And she was sure that if there was somebody else in the house, she would have noticed them by now, after all the house was not that big.

Speaker 4:
[38:53] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[38:53] And it also seemed like every floorboard had its own noise.

Speaker 4:
[38:56] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[38:56] But she still couldn't help but wonder, was there something in the house with them? Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[39:02] You don't want to have to wonder that.

Speaker 1:
[39:04] You don't. It's probably on the, like, my top 10 list of things to not want to have to worry about.

Speaker 4:
[39:10] Yeah. I want to go my whole life wondering, not that.

Speaker 1:
[39:13] Yeah. So since moving in that second week of January, Roger had only been able to enjoy the new house for a few days before he was back out on the road. So when he finally got home in mid-February, he was just eager to relax and enjoy the house. But from the moment he got home, he could tell that something was off with Carolyn. She seemed very troubled. That night after the girls went to bed, he was like, what's going on? You seem super off. It took a little work, but eventually Carolyn did start to tell him about the noises that she'd been hearing and the more recent unshakable feeling that there was somebody in the house with them. He told her that the light in the house was definitely strange, and it even played tricks with his eyes, but it was probably just that. But the more he talked, the more Carolyn realized that he didn't really understand what she was saying. It wasn't just that she had an uncomfortable feeling like everybody gets from time to time. It was a genuine feeling that there was actually somebody else there with her watching her. So it was obvious to Roger that Carolyn was upset, and something had for sure frightened her. But whether it was his Catholic upbringing or just that he hadn't had any experiences like that himself, he just couldn't bring himself to accept that anything was going on in the house. It had to have been reasonable. He insisted that she just was spending too much time alone, or maybe she was alone with the kids and their imaginations too much. So throughout most of their ordeal in the house, this was kind of Roger's way of handling things. According to Nickell, Roger eventually seemed to acquiesce, possibly to promote domestic harmony, but he never appears to have truly believed the claims from his wife and daughters.

Speaker 4:
[40:43] Interesting.

Speaker 1:
[40:44] Which is rude.

Speaker 4:
[40:45] It seems like he was accusing her of aura farming. This is haunting.

Speaker 1:
[40:50] He was saying, your aura points have gone down a lot. So as winter turned to spring and then to summer, the noises continued and that feeling of being watched would come over Carolyn and the girls now every so often. In time, the area of the hallway that connected the kitchen and the dining room became the least comfortable place in the house. The temperature inexplicably fluctuated wildly between hot and cold, like super, super hot or absolutely freezing, you see your breath cold. And it didn't matter what the temperature was in the rest of the house. According to Andrea, the girls always, quote, moved quickly through that corridor, unconsciously sensing the presence, always feeling watched within the dark spaces. As time passed, they started to share their own experiences with each other and were kind of relieved to find that they weren't alone in what was going on. Yeah, Andrea said, nobody ever lingered too long near the cellar door. And that was because on the day they moved in, two of the girls had seen what they thought was a man. Standing in the dark corner, just beyond the door. And at the time, they dismissed it as like a shadow or like their dad said, a trick of the light. But over time, the heavy feeling that they got around the cellar door and the sounds that came from the cellar convinced them that it wasn't an illusion. Now it was Cynthia who first encountered the full blown apparition of a man.

Speaker 4:
[42:06] I don't want to see an apparition of a man.

Speaker 1:
[42:08] Neither did Cynthia.

Speaker 4:
[42:09] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[42:09] The school year had just started. She was rushing to get her things together one morning so she wouldn't miss the bus. The bus driver was literally out front blaring the horn and she's trying to scoop everything up and make it in time. Before she could get there, a quote, silky, smoky figure emerged from the cellar. She had no time to even react to what was going on and she just rushed headlong into it, which caused the mask to disappear in an invisible and foul smelling cloud.

Speaker 4:
[42:37] Ew, a fart cloud?

Speaker 7:
[42:38] A fart cloud.

Speaker 4:
[42:39] Gross.

Speaker 1:
[42:40] A paranormal fart cloud. Now, as soon as the odor entered Cynthia's nostrils, the smell was apparently so overpowering that it sent her into a coughing fit.

Speaker 4:
[42:50] Oh my God, go to the doctor.

Speaker 1:
[42:52] Yeah, well, she kind of did. She made it out to the bus and she got to school on time, but within an hour of getting to school, she was exhausted. She couldn't concentrate. She was falling asleep at her desk. So the teacher sent her to the nurse because they were like, what the fuck is going on?

Speaker 4:
[43:06] They said, I think you inhaled a fart cloud.

Speaker 1:
[43:10] I think you ingested a paranormal fart cloud. Yeah. We don't really have treatment for that. So we just go home and sleep it off.

Speaker 4:
[43:15] We don't see that often.

Speaker 1:
[43:17] But a short time later, Carolyn picked her up and brought her home.

Speaker 4:
[43:20] Oh, shit.

Speaker 1:
[43:21] So Cynthia's encounter didn't really result in much more than the symptoms of a cold. But like the fact that that gave her a cold was insane. Yeah, what the? She just got pink eye from a ghost. I'd be pissed. But it was an indication that whatever they shared their home with could and would interact with them when it wanted to. And those interactions might have physical consequences.

Speaker 4:
[43:40] Damn.

Speaker 1:
[43:40] A few days later, speaking of physical consequences, Carolyn was out in the barn clearing out some of the old objects that had been left behind, and she had an encounter of her own. As she was working, she started to hear a kind of whoosh sound come from the hayloft above her, like a whooshing.

Speaker 4:
[43:56] I don't like that.

Speaker 1:
[43:57] Like that. Yeah. Carolyn wondered if it was like a bird or an animal that was trapped up there, and she started to climb the ladder to try to help if it was. Then out of nowhere a hand scythe came flying in her direction from above. What? So she tried to move or jump out of the way, but she felt like she was paralyzed, like she literally couldn't move. Now to her relief, the scythe struck the ground just inches from her foot, which spared her any harm. But the question remained, who or what had thrown a fucking scythe in her direction?

Speaker 4:
[44:29] Yeah, that's bullshit.

Speaker 1:
[44:30] She didn't know why or high.

Speaker 4:
[44:32] Why or high?

Speaker 1:
[44:33] Or how or why. But the thing Carolyn did know was that the implement had not just fallen, it had clearly been thrown, like with force. That's crazy. Now from that point on is when the activity in the house really escalated, the worst of it always coming when Roger was away. One afternoon, a few weeks after the attack in the barn, there was a knock on the door, and when Carolyn opened it, she was met by her neighbor, Mrs. Pettigrew, who knew that Roger was away and was just kind of stopping in to be like, how are you doing? So Carolyn invited her in. She went upstairs to change into more presentable clothes, and Mrs. Pettigrew and the children sat in the kitchen eating the cake that she brought, and suddenly they were startled by the sound of Carolyn screaming from the bedroom down the hall.

Speaker 4:
[45:12] Oh no.

Speaker 1:
[45:13] Now rushing to her aid, they all burst in the room. Just in time to, they all saw this, see her being whacked across the face, head and neck with a wire coat hanger, held in the air, just like by some unseen force.

Speaker 4:
[45:29] It was not Joan Crawford.

Speaker 1:
[45:31] No, it was not. She doesn't like wire hangers.

Speaker 4:
[45:33] No, she doesn't. No wire hangers.

Speaker 1:
[45:35] No wire hangers.

Speaker 4:
[45:36] What the fuck?

Speaker 1:
[45:37] Yeah. So seconds after they entered the room, the coat hanger just dropped to the floor. Whatever had held it previously was gone. And Carolyn was just sitting there in tears.

Speaker 4:
[45:47] Just having been hit with a wire hanger. And they all saw this.

Speaker 1:
[45:50] What's that?

Speaker 4:
[45:51] How many people saw this?

Speaker 1:
[45:53] Six people, her five daughters and her neighbor.

Speaker 4:
[45:54] Holy shit.

Speaker 1:
[45:55] Yeah. So frightened and kind of embarrassed. Yeah. Carolyn ushered everybody out of the room and backed down to the kitchen where they all just kind of sat awkwardly like nobody knew what to say. And before long, Mrs. Pettigrew was like, I'mma head out.

Speaker 4:
[46:07] I'mma leave.

Speaker 1:
[46:08] So she was like, thanks so much for the coffee. Enjoy the cake. Peace out. Carolyn walked her out. And but before Mrs. Pettigrew left, she turned and took Carolyn's hand and told her, the Kenyans always kept the lights on overnight. All the lights. Every night.

Speaker 4:
[46:25] That would fuck me up. That would fuck me up.

Speaker 1:
[46:28] For that to be the second comment about like, you should keep your lights on at night.

Speaker 4:
[46:31] And just for like her to like take your hand and just be like, you know that wire hanger that just beat the shit out of you?

Speaker 1:
[46:36] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[46:37] The previous owners kept their lights on.

Speaker 1:
[46:39] Yeah. Maybe you should do that.

Speaker 4:
[46:40] Like, no.

Speaker 1:
[46:41] Maybe the wire hangers wouldn't come free, babe.

Speaker 4:
[46:44] Maybe not. Who knows?

Speaker 1:
[46:45] I don't know. Who's to say? So then she just let go of Carolyn's hand, walked in the direction of her house, and quite literally never came back for another visit.

Speaker 4:
[46:53] Honestly, I don't blame her.

Speaker 1:
[46:54] She was like, that house is not for me, dog.

Speaker 4:
[46:56] That's rancid.

Speaker 1:
[46:57] She said, it's or a points are low.

Speaker 4:
[46:59] Yeah.

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Speaker 1:
[48:43] In the months that followed, the Perron family just fell into a regular routine, living alongside whatever the fuck was in their house, and doing their best to carry on, while still enduring strange events and strange encounters. With Roger away most of the time, Carolyn and the girls were left to fend for themselves. And when he would return, there was always the inevitable disappointment when he refused to believe their stories of the haunting. The experiences themselves were incredibly stressful, but Roger's skepticism seemed to make everything worse. According to Joe Nickell, Carolyn came to feel as though she was being overtly challenged by Roger's disbelief, as though her opinion was entirely irrelevant, her recounting of events fraudulent.

Speaker 4:
[49:21] Well it would piss me off if John just straight up didn't believe me. I'd be like, okay, that sucks. Yeah, it's not cool.

Speaker 1:
[49:27] I would be very upset. So the tension that grew between Roger and Carolyn acted as kind of a wedge between them and only pushed them farther apart from each other. And that was when Carolyn really needed a lot of support. Things took a turn for the worse when in the absence of her husband's emotional support, Carolyn turned to a neighbor Sam as a kind of confidant. There's no indication that their relationship was anything but platonic.

Speaker 4:
[49:49] Thank you for that.

Speaker 1:
[49:50] You betcha. No, Carolyn's a queen.

Speaker 4:
[49:53] My reality television show head just went, and with that being said, Team Sierra. Oh, yeah. I don't even watch it in Team Sierra. Period.

Speaker 1:
[50:02] You're on the right side of history. So they were like platonic, but just the fact that his wife had started sharing her ghost stories with people outside of the house and a man, another man at that, felt kind of like a betrayal to Roger. But it's also like, I don't know, maybe believe your wife.

Speaker 4:
[50:16] Believe her. Make her feel heard.

Speaker 1:
[50:18] And all your kids are saying this, too.

Speaker 4:
[50:20] Exactly.

Speaker 1:
[50:21] But through sharing her story, Carolyn finally started to feel some sense of support, and she also started moving towards finding some answers. Now, despite their growing inability to communicate with each other, Roger and Carolyn just kind of carried on their lives like there was nothing wrong in their relationship.

Speaker 4:
[50:36] It was the 70s.

Speaker 1:
[50:37] When he was home, Roger was present, not necessarily warm, but there, and his being home helped Carolyn feel a little bit safer. One night, a few years into their time at the house, Roger said, You know what? Why don't we get a babysitter? We'll go out for a date. Like, yeah, we need a little action here. So they went out. They had a nice night together. They got home a little after midnight. Roger thanked the babysitter, paid them. Carolyn went upstairs, checked in on the girls. Everything seemed normal. And then they went to bed. A few hours later, Carolyn was awoken by the sounds of footsteps near their door in her bedroom. She obviously assumed it was one of her five children. So she called out without opening her eyes, like, who is it? What can I do for you?

Speaker 4:
[51:15] What you need?

Speaker 1:
[51:16] What's up, girl? And she got no response, so she groggily opened her eyes and saw the grotesque figure of a woman standing before her staring directly into her eyes from across the room.

Speaker 4:
[51:28] That's so much worse than a kid.

Speaker 1:
[51:30] Yeah. She was also completely paralyzed.

Speaker 4:
[51:34] Oh.

Speaker 1:
[51:34] And her eyes just rapidly scanned the entity in front of her, looking for any indication of what the fuck it might want.

Speaker 4:
[51:40] A grotesque woman?

Speaker 1:
[51:42] Yeah. She said the age of the woman was difficult to discern, but based on her outfit, she knew that she was not of a modern era. Her dress was a quote, rusty green jersey, handmade, hand-dyed fabric cinched at the waist with a belt. And her hairstyle was slightly more modern. It kind of looked like a beehive, but it wasn't as well quaffed because she's grotesque.

Speaker 4:
[52:03] Presumably dead.

Speaker 1:
[52:04] Yeah. Now, worst of all was the way that her body was contorted and twisted. Her neck seemed to have been snapped, causing her head to tilt at an unnatural angle.

Speaker 4:
[52:14] I remember hearing this one.

Speaker 1:
[52:15] And she stared gray-eyed and unblinking at Carolyn.

Speaker 4:
[52:18] Oh, isn't there, I seem to remember that there's like a drawing on like a wall or something that one of the kids did of that lady.

Speaker 1:
[52:26] Yeah, it is. It's literally it's fucking it's like silly, but it's scary because you know, like what it results from fucked up. Yeah. And it was found on furniture like by new owners of the house later.

Speaker 4:
[52:39] And it's just the lady with like her crazy bent neck.

Speaker 1:
[52:41] Yeah, we'll take it. We'll put a picture in. Yeah, that's fucking scary in the carousel on Instagram. At first to Carolyn, because remember, she just woke up out of nowhere to this. At first, it seemed like this woman was like floating in the darkness. But once her eyes finally adjusted to the darkness, she could see that the woman wasn't floating. She was crouched inside of the bureau across the room. The doors flung open on both sides to reveal the full extent of Miss Girl's hideousness.

Speaker 4:
[53:09] Of our girly.

Speaker 1:
[53:11] Yeah. Like, what the fuck? Yeah. In her mind, Carolyn imagined herself shrieking, but no matter how loud she was yelling in her mind, nothing would come out of her mouth.

Speaker 4:
[53:21] Oh, that's the worst.

Speaker 1:
[53:22] So she watched in frozen terror as the woman thing at the other end of the room climbed out of the bureau and started slowly moving toward her in the dark. Finally, feeling like the paralysis was slipping, she started kicking Roger, but the blows must have been too soft to register because stupid Roger didn't wake up. It was only when the thing was directly in front of her, one of its arms literally laying across her pillow, that she finally regained the functionality to move away from the thing. And it started leaning its gray face towards her. So she shot back against her headboard with such force that the metal of the headboard slammed into the wall. And she said it was so loud that it should have woken up everybody, but nobody came running and Roger stayed asleep.

Speaker 4:
[54:08] Holy shit.

Speaker 1:
[54:09] To her surprise, the only person that did seem to respond to the noise of the clanging bed frame was the figure of the woman. Pressed as far back against the wall as she could be, she just watched in shock as the figure started to dissolve before her eyes, leaving behind a cloudy residue and a terrible odor.

Speaker 4:
[54:28] Oh, everyone's so stinky.

Speaker 1:
[54:30] Stank ass.

Speaker 4:
[54:31] Why's everyone so stinky?

Speaker 1:
[54:32] Girl, you stink. Take a bath.

Speaker 4:
[54:34] What's going on?

Speaker 1:
[54:35] I don't know. So terrified and wanting to get out of that room ASAP, she just scooped up her pillow and went to the living room to sleep on the couch. She was like, you know what?

Speaker 4:
[54:44] She was like, I don't want to deal with this.

Speaker 1:
[54:46] Yeah. She's like, you know what, Roger's probably not going to believe me if I tell him what just happened inches away from him. But there's no doubt in her mind their house was haunted and whatever it was, it was not friendly. So in the days after the attack, what's that?

Speaker 4:
[54:59] And stanky.

Speaker 1:
[55:00] And stanky. Not friendly and stanky. Horrible combination. So in the days after the attack in the bedroom, the dam broke and Carolyn started learning what her daughters were experiencing in the house. Andrea told her, I see shadows in my bedroom, even when the moon is small in the dark. The other girls had experiences too. Their bed shook in the middle of the night. Toys moved across the room. Shapeless figures stared at them from the dark corners. The worst was the way that the thing had approached Cindy. Not as a menacing figure, but with tenderness. Cindy told her mom, she loves me mom, she wants me to be friends with her.

Speaker 4:
[55:35] Oh my god. This sounds, that's very Amityville.

Speaker 1:
[55:38] It really is. So Carolyn said, fuck that. I got to do something to protect myself and my babies. Roger's not going to believe us and he's not going to like sell our house and move even if he does believe me.

Speaker 4:
[55:49] I need to figure out how to make this happen.

Speaker 1:
[55:50] Exactly. So that's a mama. So she reached out to her good buddy, Platonic Sam, and told him.

Speaker 4:
[55:56] We love Platonic Sam.

Speaker 1:
[55:57] We do too. She told him about the thing. And as they were talking, April looked up from the TV, pointed at the door to the cellar and just said, something real fucking bad happened in there. And then she turned back to the TV, like she hadn't just dropped that lure.

Speaker 4:
[56:13] What the?

Speaker 1:
[56:14] In case you weren't catching on, I'm just like making her swear because we started that bit and it's funny.

Speaker 4:
[56:18] But she literally was like something real bad happened.

Speaker 1:
[56:20] She said something bad happened in there. And then just like went back to the TV.

Speaker 4:
[56:25] I'm not sure how I would recover from that. I believe that. I'm just being honest. Like there's a lot of things I can handle. That might be the moment I say, well, I guess we're camping out.

Speaker 1:
[56:36] Like, I don't know. No, I was literally just gonna say I might camp in nearby woods before I spent another night there.

Speaker 4:
[56:42] Something real bad happened in there would fuck me up on a level I can't describe. It makes me think of the fucking Sixth Sense. That fucking cabinet.

Speaker 1:
[56:51] Yep.

Speaker 4:
[56:52] And like, huh. And they lock them up. I can't even think of that.

Speaker 1:
[56:55] No, no, no, no, no, I can't even think of it.

Speaker 4:
[56:57] Because that scene, that scene scared the voice in that fucking cabinet.

Speaker 1:
[57:02] The growl.

Speaker 4:
[57:03] Oh, my God.

Speaker 1:
[57:04] No, I hate it.

Speaker 4:
[57:05] That just makes me think of it.

Speaker 1:
[57:06] I hate it, guys. Do you know that Mikey's never seen the Sixth Sense?

Speaker 4:
[57:09] He doesn't know.

Speaker 1:
[57:11] He doesn't know. We should show you that. It's such a good movie. But it's so fucked up.

Speaker 4:
[57:14] We've got to show you.

Speaker 1:
[57:15] So shocked by the statement, Carolyn and Sam were like, OK, given everything we know, the seller seems like the most obvious source of the haunting. So Sam had it out because he was like, wow, this place is freaky as fuck. But I burped. He agreed that he would do some research and get back to her.

Speaker 4:
[57:31] OK.

Speaker 1:
[57:32] Finally, a few weeks later, he returned. And among other things, he had looked into whether there was like a legal loophole that might get them out of the mortgage. I realized I said loophole weird.

Speaker 4:
[57:44] I was like, are we like that?

Speaker 1:
[57:46] No, I didn't want to re-say it, but I realized I said it weird.

Speaker 4:
[57:51] That might be a legal loophole.

Speaker 1:
[57:53] My nose is like popping. I don't know. So in some states, if the seller had withheld any pertinent information from the buyer at the time of the sale, that could nullify the contract. Unfortunately, that's not the case in Rhode Island, or at least it wasn't back then. Carolyn shared the information with Roger when he got back from another work trip, but he was just not interested in hearing it. Andrea said, he wasn't having the same experience as we were having. And when he did come home exhausted, the last thing he wanted to hear was my mother saying, Roger, I think we have ghosts.

Speaker 4:
[58:21] I mean, yeah, but like, come on, come on, come on, Raj. Come on, Raj.

Speaker 1:
[58:26] Now, years passed, and the women in the Perron House continued to be attacked and terrified by all manner of scary shit. While Roger just remained free of any harassment. I don't know if they were just like, he's not worth it. He's not here.

Speaker 4:
[58:36] They're like, he doesn't care. That's not fun.

Speaker 1:
[58:39] I feel like that would be fun. I'd fuck them up if I was a ghost.

Speaker 4:
[58:42] I know. I'd be like, I'm going to make you believe. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[58:44] So in time, Carolyn continued looking for an explanation. In that time, she continued looking for an explanation for the experiences. And one day, she found it in an old story once shared by the locals, but mostly forgotten by the time that they had moved into the town. She'd been visiting a local general store when she was chit chatting with the owner, a lifelong local named Fran, because that's what a lifelong local is named.

Speaker 4:
[59:10] Oh, hell yeah. I mean, I'm pretty sure in Gilmore Girls, there's a lifelong local named Fran.

Speaker 1:
[59:15] Yeah, there is a lifelong local named Fran. Say lifelong local five times.

Speaker 4:
[59:18] Lifelong local. That's hard.

Speaker 1:
[59:20] Five times.

Speaker 4:
[59:21] I don't think I can do it.

Speaker 1:
[59:22] Yeah, I don't blame you. So she's chit chatting with Fran, and she finds herself telling Fran about, you know, you tell Fran whatever you need to.

Speaker 4:
[59:28] Oh, you tell Fran everything.

Speaker 1:
[59:30] Exactly. So she's like, hey, I was attacked by a ghost woman in my house recently.

Speaker 4:
[59:33] Oh, yeah. Fran's going to take that. She's going to know she literally know what to do to Carolyn.

Speaker 1:
[59:37] Surprise Fran knew something about the house that nobody had ever told the family. It had once been the home of a woman named Bathsheba Sherman, and her neighbors believed that she was a witch.

Speaker 4:
[59:48] Oh, hell yeah.

Speaker 1:
[59:49] I'm obsessed.

Speaker 4:
[59:50] Let's go.

Speaker 1:
[59:51] According to local legend, Bathsheba had been a member of the Arnold family who lived in the house all those years ago, and she was said to be in league with the devil and had sacrificed sacrificed a child to the Satan in exchange for power.

Speaker 4:
[60:03] Oh, she's a yucky one.

Speaker 1:
[60:04] No, no. When she was arrested, Bathsheba claimed that the child died in an accident, and the case was dismissed. But still, the rumors persisted around town, and she became an outcast, left alone in her house to her black magic.

Speaker 4:
[60:18] Oh, no.

Speaker 1:
[60:19] It was this, Fran suggested, that was likely the source of the haunting. If the stories were true, and Bathsheba had in fact sacrificed a child, surely an act so evil would leave a permanent stain on the land and the house.

Speaker 4:
[60:31] Oh, hell yeah, it would.

Speaker 1:
[60:32] And while there was literally no evidence to support that belief, Carolyn said, yeah, I bet that happened at my house.

Speaker 4:
[60:38] I mean, here's the thing. There's a lot of shit going on in that house. And then the kid saying something bad happened in there, and she wants to be my friend. All the stinky fart smells, all the scythe skin thrown at you.

Speaker 1:
[60:52] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[60:53] I might say, that might be my first thought too, is like, you know what? I bet somebody did do some fucked up shit like that.

Speaker 1:
[60:58] Oh, I would absolutely think so.

Speaker 4:
[61:00] I'd be like, that's enough evidence for me.

Speaker 1:
[61:02] I'd take it. So, knowing the potential origin of the haunting was one thing, but that still didn't help Carolyn solve the problem. They still had to live there. Then one day, in the early fall of 1973, help came from an unexpected place. By then, Carolyn had been pretty open with a lot of people at that point about what was happening in the house, including a friend who recently attended a lecture by paranormal investigators, say it with me now, Ed and Lorraine Warren.

Speaker 4:
[61:28] I've never heard of them.

Speaker 1:
[61:29] No?

Speaker 4:
[61:30] Are they well known?

Speaker 1:
[61:31] Yeah, people know about them.

Speaker 4:
[61:33] Are they good at what they do?

Speaker 1:
[61:35] They are. Nobody can argue that they're good at what they do.

Speaker 4:
[61:38] Are they charlatans, perhaps?

Speaker 1:
[61:40] Oh my God, that word literally gets used later.

Speaker 4:
[61:42] Holy shit.

Speaker 1:
[61:43] Listen to you. So yeah, maybe. Maybe, perhaps. So at the time, the Warrens actually hadn't really reached the level of notoriety that they have now. They really came to notoriety after Amityville, I think.

Speaker 4:
[61:55] Oh yeah, then they became the Warrens.

Speaker 1:
[61:57] Exactly. They were not the Warrens at that point. They were just the Ed and Lorraine Warren.

Speaker 4:
[62:00] They were like, look at these two.

Speaker 1:
[62:01] Adorable couple.

Speaker 4:
[62:02] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[62:02] So they were also easily accessible at this point, and they lived close by because they lived, I think they lived in Rhode Island.

Speaker 4:
[62:07] Oh shit, they got in on the ground floor with Ed and Lorraine.

Speaker 1:
[62:10] Carolyn did. So she placed a call to the couple and they agreed. They said, hell yeah, I'll come down to your house. So they toured the house. They reviewed the notes and the research that Carolyn had pulled together. And after doing so, Lorraine Warren agreed that there was definitely an evil presence living amongst them.

Speaker 4:
[62:25] I mean, I'm with her on that.

Speaker 1:
[62:27] Same.

Speaker 4:
[62:27] You know.

Speaker 1:
[62:28] After hearing the story about Bathsheba, Lorraine informed the parents that it was she who was the quote, lone demonic presence in the house and all the other paranormal activity was drawn to her or commanded by her.

Speaker 4:
[62:39] Oh shit.

Speaker 1:
[62:40] So grateful that somebody was finally taking her plight seriously. A wave of relief washed over Carolyn when Lorraine not only believed her, but also said, hey, I think we can help you here.

Speaker 4:
[62:50] Oh hell yeah.

Speaker 1:
[62:51] Unfortunately, what Carolyn thought was a story shared in confidence soon turned out to be anything but. Ed and Lorraine definitely would do their best to help the family, but they also would create a public spectacle that would benefit them more than the parents.

Speaker 4:
[63:05] Yeah. And at that point, there was no knowledge of their wily ways with the media. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[63:12] So before Carolyn even knew what was happening, there were strangers showing up outside of her house all the time to get a look at the haunted house. Every few days, ghost hunters were arriving at the door offering their services. One ghost hunter included a man who insisted that he could solve the problem with, quote, only one tool of the trade in his hand, his holy Bible.

Speaker 4:
[63:32] I don't think you can do that.

Speaker 1:
[63:33] He didn't. It was only later that Carolyn and Roger found out that in between their first meeting and their last one, Aidan and Lorraine shared their story at an unknown number of lectures given around New England.

Speaker 4:
[63:45] Oh, Aidan and Lorraine.

Speaker 1:
[63:46] So they were just like, hey, this address in Harrisburg or Harrisville.

Speaker 4:
[63:49] Harrisburg address.

Speaker 1:
[63:50] Yeah, this place in fucking Rhode Island.

Speaker 4:
[63:53] Go see it.

Speaker 1:
[63:53] Check it out. In October, Aidan and Lorraine came back to the house for what Carolyn was told would be a seance, but what turned out to be what Joe Nickell described as part of a ghost hunting session with lots of cumbersome equipment and part intended exorcism, including in addition to a medium shaman, holy woman and a parapsychologist and also a priest. So she was like, I thought we were just having a seance. Who are all these people?

Speaker 4:
[64:18] Yeah, I thought we were just sitting around with some candles.

Speaker 1:
[64:20] Yeah. So she was scared about Roger's reaction initially. So she didn't tell him about the seance until the Warrens got there to perform said seance.

Speaker 4:
[64:29] Oh, babe.

Speaker 1:
[64:30] And Roger was livid. Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[64:33] I mean, here's the thing.

Speaker 1:
[64:35] You got to inform everybody.

Speaker 4:
[64:36] Yeah. I too would be pissed if a seance was occurring without my knowledge. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[64:40] But he would have stopped the seance. So I get both sides.

Speaker 4:
[64:42] That's the thing. I understand that she didn't want to say anything because he would have been like, we're not doing a fucking seance.

Speaker 1:
[64:46] And she needed to do a fucking seance.

Speaker 4:
[64:48] And you need to do a fucking seance. But I can understand. I would also be aggravated.

Speaker 1:
[64:52] It's complicated.

Speaker 4:
[64:53] If people, if Ed and Lorraine Warren showed up at my house with seance accoutrement. Yeah. And like a whole entourage of seance of like seance people and like holy men and women.

Speaker 1:
[65:03] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[65:05] Just unannounced. And John was like, I might have set this up.

Speaker 1:
[65:08] I don't like unexpected.

Speaker 4:
[65:09] I'd be like, sick idea.

Speaker 1:
[65:11] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[65:12] But you have to tell me.

Speaker 1:
[65:13] I don't even like when solar panel people show up at my house.

Speaker 4:
[65:16] Oh, me.

Speaker 1:
[65:17] So I get it.

Speaker 4:
[65:17] I don't like any of that.

Speaker 1:
[65:18] You know. So he was pissed, but he was like, OK, do your seance.

Speaker 4:
[65:22] At least he was like, do your seance. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[65:24] But he was pretty pissed about it. So over the course of the evening, Ed and Lorraine, with the help of all of their entourage, guided Carolyn through a ritual cleansing intended to drive Bathsheba out of the house. During the cleansing, Carolyn started mumbling incoherently and a quote, Low-pitched guttural utterance emerged from deep within her being as her quaking body trembled in place.

Speaker 4:
[65:47] Holy shit.

Speaker 1:
[65:48] Yeah. Lots was going on.

Speaker 4:
[65:50] Wow.

Speaker 1:
[65:50] After lots of shouting, prayer, and exorcism of what they were told was the demon that had entered Carolyn's body, Roger had had enough, and he tried to intervene in what he thought was a hoax. But when he stepped forward, Ed tried to pull away from the exorcism, tried to pull him away, and that caused Roger to whip around and punch Ed directly in the face, dropping him down to the ground. Bam! Ed went down.

Speaker 7:
[66:16] I was just going to say that.

Speaker 1:
[66:18] Roger, super bitch.

Speaker 4:
[66:20] I'll send you a copy. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[66:21] Oh, shit. So seeing her husband bleeding from the face.

Speaker 4:
[66:25] Oh, no.

Speaker 1:
[66:25] Lorraine ran to his side and started wiping the blood, and Roger used the break and the chaos to demand that everybody get the fuck out of his house.

Speaker 4:
[66:33] Yeah, he said, this is getting crazy.

Speaker 1:
[66:34] And with that, the seance came to an end.

Speaker 4:
[66:37] Oh, no.

Speaker 1:
[66:37] Now, in her memoirs, Andrea Perron recalled her father's demeanor after the Warrens and the others left that night. She said he bitterly resented the intrusion, the theatrical farce of pseudo-intellectual endeavor. He also called the entire scene ritualistic nonsense and shouted at his wife, Do you realize you're being played by a pair of two-bit charlatans?

Speaker 4:
[66:58] Charlatans!

Speaker 1:
[66:59] I told you.

Speaker 4:
[67:00] I mean, you shouldn't yell at your wife.

Speaker 1:
[67:03] You shouldn't yell at your wife, but what he said was a little bit valid.

Speaker 4:
[67:06] Was he correct? Maybe. But that's not nice.

Speaker 1:
[67:09] But like, whatever, Roger.

Speaker 4:
[67:10] Because obviously something is going on in this house.

Speaker 1:
[67:13] If she's that desperate to get rid of it. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 4:
[67:15] And these kids are feeling it. The kids are saying shit, things going down. She's a mama trying to help her children.

Speaker 1:
[67:22] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[67:22] I'm team Carolyn.

Speaker 1:
[67:24] Me too.

Speaker 4:
[67:24] Thank you.

Speaker 1:
[67:26] Now, at the time, his behavior and his perspective seemed unwarranted. But as an adult now, Andrea kind of gets where he was coming from, given the circumstances. According to her, later in life, Roger, quote, admitted that he didn't want to believe his wife because he didn't want to think that he had put his family in a perilous situation with the purchase of the house.

Speaker 4:
[67:45] I wondered if there was some guilt going on there, and also that he's not home a lot to protect them.

Speaker 1:
[67:51] I definitely think that's it.

Speaker 4:
[67:52] He doesn't want to believe that there's any kind of danger that's happening, that he can't be around to help.

Speaker 1:
[67:57] Right, he probably put it out of his head and just got rid of it.

Speaker 4:
[68:00] He's just not reacting in a way that is telling us that.

Speaker 1:
[68:04] Yeah, it's the 70s, he's a man, what's he to do?

Speaker 4:
[68:06] What's he to do?

Speaker 1:
[68:07] So after the seance, things did seem to calm down in the house, but the activity never did stop completely. They kept living in the house until 1980 when they finally decided it was time to move. Andrea said, my mother told my father she would not survive another winter in that house. She had been under attack in that house for 10 years.

Speaker 4:
[68:24] Damn, you must be tired after that.

Speaker 1:
[68:26] Yeah. In the decades since they moved out, other people have lived in the house and nobody's reported supernatural activity that's lived there. Non-supernatural harassment, on the other hand, has been occurring regularly since the Perron story was made public, reaching a peak with The Conjuring in 2013. That movie that was released. I don't know if you've heard of it. According to former homeowner Norma Sutcliffe, she and her husband were, quote, plagued by a conjuring, instigated siege of their property that's included countless harassing phone calls and people just randomly showing up at their house, which is shitty.

Speaker 4:
[68:59] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[68:59] As for Andrea, who has now had decades to consider her own experiences and her family's experiences, she kind of lands somewhere in between skeptic Joe Nickell and true believers Ed and Lorraine Warren.

Speaker 4:
[69:10] Okay.

Speaker 1:
[69:11] She definitely believes that the house was haunted, but when it comes to the cause, she's not sure.

Speaker 4:
[69:15] Yeah, I could see that.

Speaker 1:
[69:17] The release of the film based loosely on her family's experiences prompted a significant interest to the legend of Bathsheba Sherman, who Andrea and local historians now believe was unfairly maligned.

Speaker 4:
[69:28] Oh, Bathsheba.

Speaker 1:
[69:29] Yeah, not only by history, but also by the Warrens. In a recent interview, Andrea said, Essentially, Bathsheba copped the blame for everything evil, and it simply wasn't the case. Not long after moving out of the house, Carolyn and Roger divorced and they went their separate ways, but they both did their best to maintain positive relationships with their kids.

Speaker 4:
[69:47] That's good.

Speaker 1:
[69:47] And they occasionally appear in media relating to the haunting, but they lived their lives mostly out of the spotlight.

Speaker 4:
[69:54] Oh, good for them. I'm glad they kind of just separated from it.

Speaker 1:
[69:58] Yeah, me too. I think it was for the best.

Speaker 4:
[70:01] And I really do believe that this was like, do I think Roger reacted great in all those circumstances?

Speaker 1:
[70:06] No, I was a little poor.

Speaker 4:
[70:07] But I do think Andrea, like the daughter is correct, that it probably was a lot of guilt.

Speaker 1:
[70:13] Yeah, an underlying guilt thing, for sure. I want to go to the Conjuring House so badly.

Speaker 4:
[70:18] I want to too, and I'm supposed to go.

Speaker 1:
[70:20] And they said, I know, I forgot about that.

Speaker 4:
[70:22] John got me tickets to go there and have a medium there.

Speaker 3:
[70:27] That would have been sick.

Speaker 4:
[70:28] For our anniversary.

Speaker 1:
[70:30] And then he had to go and get vertigo.

Speaker 4:
[70:31] And then he got a horrible case of vertigo.

Speaker 1:
[70:34] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[70:34] And we couldn't go.

Speaker 1:
[70:35] You and I should have gone.

Speaker 4:
[70:36] I know, on our, on my anniversary. Yeah. He honestly wanted us to.

Speaker 1:
[70:40] He probably would have said that.

Speaker 4:
[70:42] So yeah, that's my story of the Conjuring House. But yeah, Corinne and Sabrina spent the night there.

Speaker 1:
[70:48] Yeah. I forget what they said. I remember they said it was definitely like, they felt some shit. Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[70:54] Yeah, I want to go. But I think I don't. Can you go now?

Speaker 1:
[70:59] Yeah. It leads you to like a weird empty page.

Speaker 4:
[71:01] So I think if you look on the Google page, like the home page way, yeah, when you search it, it says closed temporarily.

Speaker 1:
[71:08] Well, temporarily.

Speaker 4:
[71:10] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[71:11] At least there's that.

Speaker 4:
[71:12] I would like to go.

Speaker 1:
[71:12] I want to go. Maybe we'll go.

Speaker 4:
[71:14] But yeah, that's crazy.

Speaker 1:
[71:16] It is. I am freaked out by it. But I love haunted episodes. They're so much fun.

Speaker 4:
[71:21] I love hauntings. I know they're horrifying for the people who live through them, but I love hearing them. I really love hearing the stories of hauntings.

Speaker 1:
[71:30] So guys, we hope that you love us, and we hope that you keep listening.

Speaker 4:
[71:33] And we hope you keep it weird.

Speaker 1:
[71:36] But not so weird that you also don't love hauntings.

Speaker 4:
[71:38] Yeah, love hauntings.

Speaker 1:
[71:40] Love them.

Speaker 4:
[71:40] Because it's almost spooky season.

Speaker 1:
[71:42] Oh my god, we're so close.

Speaker 4:
[71:43] We're so close. We're out of winter. That means it's spooky season.

Speaker 1:
[71:47] Only like five and a half months.

Speaker 4:
[71:48] Oh, that's fucking nothing. That's less than half a year.

Speaker 1:
[71:51] All right. Party.

Speaker 4:
[71:52] We're here. It's Halloween. Ooh, ooh, ooh.

Speaker 6:
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