transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:00] This episode is brought to you by Allstate. Checking Allstate first could save you hundreds on car insurance. That's smart. Not checking the meaning of a word all the kids say before using it yourself? Not smart. Not sleigh-worthy. Yeah, checking first is smart, so check Allstate first for a quote that could save you hundreds. You're in good hands with Allstate. Potential savings vary subject to terms, conditions and availability. Allstate North American Insurance Company and affiliates, Northbrook, Illinois. Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of Good Hang. We have the talented, funny, warm, incredible Brandi Carlile joining us today. And boy, I feel like we became really good friends in this interview, and we talked about so many good things. We talked about her music and meeting her heroes. We talked about hair and the changing hairstyles and how that defines you. We talked about her new record, Returning to Myself, and how great it is. And we may have even harmonized a little bit. So get ready for that. But before we start this interview, we always talk to a person who knows our guest and wants to give me a question to ask this guest. And boy, we have a star in her own right, an incredibly talented singer, songwriter, musician from Texas, Marren Morris. Marren, you know, from all of her hits, from The High Women, which she performed with Brandi, and she's just incredible. And we are so thrilled to have Marren with us today. So Marren, hi, can you hear me? This episode of Good Hang is presented by Subaru. Some cars go the extra mile. Long range Subaru hybrids take that to a whole new level, with up to 597 miles per tank in the Crosstrek Hybrid, a car that I've given my family, and up to 581 miles per tank in the Forester Hybrid, another car that I also enjoy. Subaru, love goes the extra mile. Visit subaru.com/hybrid to learn more. Range based on EPA estimated combined fuel economy and a full tank of fuel. Actual mileage and range may vary. How are you? Where are we talking to you from?

Speaker 2:
[02:24] I am on tour right now in the UK, so I'm playing a show in Manchester tonight, so I'm backstage.

Speaker 1:
[02:31] Oh, gosh. You're in pre-show mode.

Speaker 2:
[02:34] Yeah, but I got ready a little bit earlier today to look okay for you. And yeah, it's kind of nice weather today, like breezy, good walking weather. But yeah, I'm excited.

Speaker 1:
[02:47] We're talking to Brandi Carlile today. Really appreciate that you're here to talk to us about her because the work that you did together with the Highwomen was so special. When did you first meet, Brandi?

Speaker 2:
[03:07] Well, thank you so much. I remember when I met you at that Beatles event, you had mentioned that you loved the Highwomen album.

Speaker 1:
[03:15] Loved that record.

Speaker 2:
[03:17] I think a few months later, I was on The Tonight Show, talking to Jimmy, and he brought up the picture of us. I was so embarrassed because I was crying when I met you. I'd already had three glasses of wine. Oh my gosh, you were so sweet to me that night.

Speaker 1:
[03:30] Of course. It's such a pleasure to meet you. I love your music.

Speaker 2:
[03:34] Thank you. But yeah, the Highwomen record, that was pretty early in my relationship with Brandi. I think we just clicked and we met randomly at this event in Nashville where I was receiving an award for something, but they were also doing a bunch of duets that night. So I remember Brandi and I both sang Carole King, also Aretha Franklin's, You Make Me Feel Like a Natural Woman. Having been a Brandi fan since probably junior high, being able to sing that song with her and just go toe-to-toe vocally was so fun. I think it was probably a few months later, Brandi called me and it was like the day or the week my second record was coming out and I was at 30 Rock. I was at the Tonight Show randomly and just in the dressing room about to go on, she calls and she's like, I'm putting this girl group together and I want to know if you want to be a part of it. It's going to be me, Amanda Shires and Natalie Hemby. And I was like, uh-huh. And she goes, it's kind of like a tribute or extension of the Highwaymen, like the Willie Nelson, Chris Christopherson, Johnny Cash, Waylon Jonings record. And I was like, oh my, I'm in. I didn't really have any more questions. I didn't have any questions.

Speaker 1:
[05:03] Amazing.

Speaker 2:
[05:03] And it was just, yeah, like a sort of microcosm event because we did that one album. We did a few shows. We did like Newport Folk Festival, brought out Dolly Parton, which was insane. But a lot of these really major career moments, like that I treasure that are my crown jewels are the High Women experiences.

Speaker 1:
[05:26] What was it like singing with Dolly Parton?

Speaker 2:
[05:28] You need to interview her. I think that would be... Yeah, sure.

Speaker 1:
[05:32] Dolly, Marren said that we would be great together.

Speaker 2:
[05:36] She just moved from the long list to the short list.

Speaker 1:
[05:40] Dolly, anytime, anywhere. Yeah, she's just a legend and a real hero of mine. What was she like to be around?

Speaker 2:
[05:48] I think very few people, I'll include you in this, exceed your expectations when you have such a surveyed history, watching someone or being inspired by someone from afar. So yeah, just exceeded expectations is really punctual. I love that she-

Speaker 1:
[06:10] Of course she is.

Speaker 2:
[06:10] Because I put such a precedence on being on time. Oh, wow.

Speaker 1:
[06:15] Of course Dolly is very punctual.

Speaker 2:
[06:17] Actually, she was early.

Speaker 1:
[06:19] Of course she was. Can you imagine running late for Dolly Parton? That is a stress stream. Can you imagine just in traffic and you know Dolly is waiting for you?

Speaker 2:
[06:29] Yeah, just disappointing her. I just think that I'd probably quit music.

Speaker 1:
[06:35] Totally. You just call ahead and you say, I'm sorry, I'm not going to make it in time. I quit. I quit music, Dolly.

Speaker 2:
[06:42] No, she's so lovely and she's obviously just hysterical, dressed to the nines. I assume she's maybe doing her own glam because this is a not filmed day in the studio, but she's putting us all to shame because she's in full hair and makeup, eight inch heels. We're both quite short, so we bonded over that.

Speaker 1:
[07:07] How tall are you?

Speaker 2:
[07:09] I'm five one. How tall are you?

Speaker 1:
[07:12] I'm a towering five two. What's it like down there?

Speaker 2:
[07:20] Also, this is something that I hope that I take away when I hopefully do this decades and decades on is that she sings every one of her songs in the original key of the year it came out.

Speaker 1:
[07:33] Dang.

Speaker 2:
[07:34] A lot of people have to, as they age, and sometimes women, our voices mature. I think they say like 35 or 36.

Speaker 1:
[07:42] I think about that with songwriters that are people starting to be aware in their 30s and 40s that they need to sing in lower keys.

Speaker 2:
[07:50] Yeah. I've found out the hard way.

Speaker 1:
[07:52] Yeah, when you go out.

Speaker 2:
[07:54] Yeah. Then you have to do it live. I made this way too high and fast. Yeah. Yeah. Just incredible singer. Brandi really made it happen. I feel like she's reached out to these icons over the years and brought them into a space where we can fall in love with them over and over again.

Speaker 1:
[08:17] That's what I want to talk to her about is she is really good at exactly that, drawing out the heroes of hers and of ours and kind of bringing them in and making them feel comfortable. Like she feels like she's, you said it yourself, she's like a doer. She makes things happen. She's a producer. She's also a good host. You know, she's just making people feel comfortable, but also, which I really relate to, just quietly making them do things without them knowing that they're being pushed. Like she's a pusher to get things done, but everyone feels good when that's happening. That's a rare combination.

Speaker 2:
[08:51] I think that being able to go witness something really communal and almost like church, but for people that want to come together in a way that feels inclusive and safe for all. And yeah, just connect through these magic vibrations. I think, you know, just that's her rare gift.

Speaker 1:
[09:13] That's so cool. Okay, so do you have a question that you think I should ask Brandi today?

Speaker 2:
[09:18] I'm just wondering, as she watches her girls get older and she's making music and touring and collaborating and achieving these incredible dreams she has. Yeah, the integration of family throughout that, I feel like has always been really at the forefront for her and Catherine. And I'm just wondering, like, as her girls get older, because my son's now five and a half, like, what is it like when they go to shows now? Like, are they excited to be there? Are they proud? Are they over it?

Speaker 1:
[09:54] It's a great question. And actually, it's a question, you know, it speaks to the bigger idea of, like, being a working mother. How does your kid want you to, you know, divide your time and how do you divide your time and how do you make your kid feel really seen? And also, how do you pursue your dream and not and be like a good model for what it looks like to be a woman who loves, you know, loves what she's doing. So it's, yeah, it's a question I think working women are always asking each other. And I think that's what women do so well, is they say, how do you do it? And what are you doing? And how did it change? And how did five look different than ten? And yeah, great question. Great question. Marren, I'm obsessed with you. I really appreciate that you're talking to us on the Before Show. Thank you for that.

Speaker 2:
[10:43] No, thank you.

Speaker 1:
[10:44] It's so good to talk to you. Have a great show. Break a leg. Okay.

Speaker 2:
[10:49] See you soon.

Speaker 1:
[10:49] Thank you again. This episode is brought to you by Allstate. Checking Allstate first could save you hundreds on car insurance. That's smart. Not checking the meaning of a word all the kids say before using it yourself, not smart. Not sleigh-worthy. Yeah. Checking first is smart, so check Allstate first for a quote that could save you hundreds. You're in good hands with Allstate. Potential savings vary subject to terms, conditions and availability. Allstate North American Insurance Company and affiliates, Northbrook, Illinois. Brandi Carlile is here and we're talking already about SNL because you love doing SNL.

Speaker 3:
[11:27] I love it. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[11:27] And you love the time pressure.

Speaker 3:
[11:29] Yes. I think watching all those people thrive under pressure is just, it's a really unique thing. You don't see that anywhere else.

Speaker 1:
[11:35] I know. And we were saying that like the idea of like a minute or two in SNL time feels like years. Because I've done live things where they get you ready and they put you at the side of the stage. And you're like, I know I have two more awards before my award or whatever.

Speaker 3:
[11:51] Which is like 40 minutes.

Speaker 2:
[11:52] 40 minutes.

Speaker 1:
[11:54] And they get you out of your seat and you're like, at SNL, you'd be having dinner uptown.

Speaker 3:
[11:58] Exactly. They don't even come into your dressing room. They give you a warning at two minutes. That's like, I know.

Speaker 1:
[12:03] Brandi.

Speaker 3:
[12:04] Hi.

Speaker 1:
[12:04] Hi.

Speaker 3:
[12:05] I love you so much. Oh my God.

Speaker 1:
[12:06] Same. I love you. I was very, very excited to talk to you today. And there's a million things I want to talk to you about today. But I want to stay in the present for a second because I'm loving your new record.

Speaker 3:
[12:19] Thank you.

Speaker 1:
[12:20] I love all of your music. But this one feels very, very, it feels like, not to imprint myself on it, but it really feels like it's speaking to me. And it's returning to myself, came out in October. As we start today, I want to ask you about the push and pull between being like introvert, extrovert, your push and pull between being a connector and wanting community and needing time to yourself. And I was kind of joking with someone that was saying, what I love about Brandi's new record is it feels like it's like, can I have five minutes to myself, please?

Speaker 3:
[12:57] That's what it feels like. That's in the subtext. And not very many people have seen that about it, but you have.

Speaker 1:
[13:02] And and I, you know, when I when I've been learning about you, it's like, you know, you have definite, benevolent, natural captain energy and you like to bring people together. And, you know, you live with a lot of people. You have a lot of people around. You live a life that's very big and has a lot of people around. And I love that a lot of the songs on this record are about, can I just like figure out what I what I actually want? Like, who am I in real time and when I'm alone? Is the music about that? Is the record about? What is it like to be alone?

Speaker 3:
[13:35] Well, it's definitely about who am I when I am alone?

Speaker 1:
[13:38] Who are you when you're alone?

Speaker 3:
[13:39] Well, I have sort of yet to figure that out.

Speaker 1:
[13:42] Same.

Speaker 3:
[13:42] And really?

Speaker 1:
[13:44] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[13:44] Is it because you prefer the company of other people and then don't take the time? Yes. Yeah, that's the thing. So I don't know. And I've got to an age now where I've learned that that's sort of seen as maybe unevolved in some ways. And I got kind of self-conscious about it within the last year or two and went, oh, am I, do I have a made up mind? Am I a bit unevolved that I haven't learned who I am when I'm alone?

Speaker 1:
[14:12] Have you ever thought about doing a silent retreat?

Speaker 3:
[14:15] I have thought about it.

Speaker 1:
[14:16] Does it scare you?

Speaker 3:
[14:17] It just really turns me off. Like I just find that appalling.

Speaker 4:
[14:21] I do too.

Speaker 1:
[14:23] It's like what?

Speaker 5:
[14:24] Eight days of no talking?

Speaker 3:
[14:26] Oh, what a waste of time.

Speaker 1:
[14:28] I'm doing a podcast and you can tell I like love talking.

Speaker 3:
[14:31] But yeah, it's like, okay.

Speaker 1:
[14:34] And I'm always fascinated by people who are silent in general. I'm always fascinated by people who stay still. I do find you have a stillness. You're not a, and again, I'm just getting to know you, but I don't feel like you have a hectic energy.

Speaker 3:
[14:53] No, I don't think I do. And in terms of other than just committing to a lot of things all the time.

Speaker 1:
[14:57] Yes.

Speaker 3:
[14:57] And that would my, so my wife would tell you that I am chaotic in that way.

Speaker 1:
[15:01] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[15:02] But like not to bring up Trim Carpentry right away, but yesterday I had the day off.

Speaker 1:
[15:08] Have you heard about, we've been talking about Trim Carpentry on this episode.

Speaker 3:
[15:12] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[15:12] Kate McKinnon.

Speaker 3:
[15:14] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[15:15] Big fan of Trim Carpentry. And said she spoke to you about Trim Carpentry.

Speaker 3:
[15:19] Yeah. And, and then I heard that you are also a fan of Trim Carpentry, but are intimidated by working with wood.

Speaker 1:
[15:25] Big time. Because Nick Offerman, friend of the pod, friend of mine, also incredible woodworker, I'm sure he's into Trim Carpentry. Sure.

Speaker 3:
[15:34] As you would be.

Speaker 1:
[15:35] That just seems to me like next level. What does Trim Carpentry have to do with what we're talking about?

Speaker 3:
[15:40] Well, the reason I was going to... I had the day off yesterday and I just spent six hours caulking window trim, just trim carpentry for just six hours. All I was doing was caulking, just filling in gaps with like a bronze colored caulk and nail holes and kind of perfecting the appearance of the carpentry. And I was doing it with this guy that I used to plan a band with when I was a teenager. And he's like what I guess he's one of my best friends. We only see each other once every few years. But when we do, we just get together and don't talk.

Speaker 1:
[16:12] Wow, that's nice.

Speaker 3:
[16:14] There's like a bag of Fritos involved. There's like a bad radio station. And there's just some curses of it, you know, occasionally when a mistake is made. And I wouldn't have done that day. That's not how I would have spent the day if I had had the option to do it alone. I wanted to spend the day with him not talking. And so that's how I do my time with other people. I'd rather be together, but that doesn't mean that I want to lay myself down across the puddle like a jacket to spend time with you. We may not talk.

Speaker 1:
[16:48] Your music reminds me of this feeling, and the record does too, which is that feeling when you're in another room and you can hear people talking. I love that feeling. Me too. Because I like the party. I want people around, but I want to not be talking.

Speaker 3:
[17:05] When's your birthday?

Speaker 1:
[17:06] September 16th.

Speaker 3:
[17:07] I wonder if that's a characteristic of your sign.

Speaker 1:
[17:09] I wonder. Why are you? What's your sign?

Speaker 3:
[17:11] I'm a Gemini. June 1st.

Speaker 1:
[17:13] Okay.

Speaker 3:
[17:14] It's a very outward person.

Speaker 1:
[17:16] I can't understand Geminis.

Speaker 3:
[17:18] Really? Yeah. That look you just gave me. Every day.

Speaker 1:
[17:21] It's like, what are we getting?

Speaker 3:
[17:23] Yeah, I know.

Speaker 1:
[17:24] What are we getting? What's the real deal, Gemini? Twin City.

Speaker 3:
[17:27] Yeah, I know. I don't know. You tell me.

Speaker 1:
[17:30] Did you feel like when you were a kid, I mean, you have eldest daughter energy. You are, like I said, you're a doer. You like to get things done and you kind of quietly motivate people in ways that they don't realize they're being pushed.

Speaker 3:
[17:46] Stop it.

Speaker 1:
[17:46] Game, recognize game. We ain't recognize game. But okay, you grew up in the middle of nowhere.

Speaker 3:
[17:52] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[17:53] Was it quiet where you were? And were you alone a lot?

Speaker 3:
[17:57] It was chaotic.

Speaker 1:
[17:58] Okay.

Speaker 3:
[17:58] And I still live in the middle of nowhere. But it was chaotic, you know?

Speaker 1:
[18:01] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[18:02] Moved all the time. Lived in tiny places. A lot of times people lived with us. Lots of friends over, lots of jam sessions, just lots of chaos all the time. Unpredictable environments. And I really thrive in those. And I still have this like, did you have, what was your childhood like?

Speaker 1:
[18:19] Well, suburban in many ways, but small house and everyone very kind of on top of each other. And we were kind of the house where people would come through. So it's nice that way because people would come over, but busy house. And I felt like I wanted to do a lot of hiding, like a lot of going into the woods and getting on my bike and just balancing quiet time and busy time. But a lively house full of a lot of love.

Speaker 3:
[18:48] I just realized my house, like when we were just driving around, my house felt like Saturday Night Live.

Speaker 1:
[18:53] No way, people moving giant pieces of furniture.

Speaker 3:
[18:56] Everything to the last second, tons of pressure, anything could change, nothing is guaranteed.

Speaker 1:
[19:02] Do we have a lot of ADHD in the house?

Speaker 3:
[19:04] I mean, probably entirely. I would think, I mean, I would think it's like everyone would be, would fall into that category. So that explains why I love being there so much, because I'm like, why am I just thriving in this environment?

Speaker 1:
[19:18] You're just crushing like right before the deadline.

Speaker 3:
[19:21] Yeah, just loving it.

Speaker 1:
[19:22] But that helps with performing, I think, because you just, you know, you can only have like so much time in the day where, I mean, some people spend their whole day getting ready for their performance, but you just have to kind of create like a countdown for the performance. You can't stay performance ready all day.

Speaker 3:
[19:38] No. And I mean, depending on like what your zone is, and like what kind of performer you are, too, the element of like risk involved gets really, can get really heavy. Like, I know exactly how to sing. Like, so if I'm, it almost doesn't matter how high the stakes are. Like, if I'm going to sing, I'm going to be okay. But I have this theory that, that, and I mean, I could be wrong. And this is not to downgrade anybody else's pros. But I think that like musicians are obsessed with comedians. Have you not noticed that?

Speaker 1:
[20:17] Well, here's my theory.

Speaker 4:
[20:19] Okay, tell me.

Speaker 1:
[20:20] Every comedian wishes they were a musician, and every musician thinks they're a comedian. Because I can't tell you how many musicians have been like, I'm really funny.

Speaker 3:
[20:33] And I'm like, okay. Well, I'm glad they think that.

Speaker 1:
[20:38] But no, we get along. We get along.

Speaker 3:
[20:40] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[20:41] Because I think we really appreciate what the other does. And there's a similarity. But also we sometimes feel like I, like I love, I, my, some of my favorite memories of SNL is watching musicians. Like I just am in awe of what musicians get to do. But what do you think? Why do you think we kind of love each other?

Speaker 3:
[20:59] I think that, you know, musicians kind of worship comedians because of the risk that they're taking. Like we know what it means to do our thing and then have that die to no reaction. And, and then I think comedians just, just think they're at the top of the pyramid.

Speaker 1:
[21:17] And I don't wish they were anyone else.

Speaker 3:
[21:20] Because they're so intelligent.

Speaker 1:
[21:21] Well, and they also are like, the cockiness, to your point, you have to be cocky to get out there and bomb or you're really in trouble.

Speaker 3:
[21:29] I mean, what do you do? It's like, it's like I, like I said, I can sing no matter how high the stakes are. And if I'm going to play 12 songs, it's not the 12 songs I'm afraid of. It's the 15 seconds in between the songs of what I have to say in that moment. Out of here. That's what I'm afraid of.

Speaker 1:
[21:43] Okay. That's why I'm not a musician, because I would have no problem with that, but the singing.

Speaker 4:
[21:49] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[21:50] So if we like recreated the Indigo Girls, like if we were a band together, your banter and my singing would be unstoppable.

Speaker 1:
[21:59] You know, this is early in the interview, but I don't want to talk to you about your heroes, but can we just talk about the Indigo Girls for a second?

Speaker 3:
[22:05] All day long.

Speaker 1:
[22:07] Okay. First of all, the fact that one of them was called Amy was already like a dream, Emily and Amy. They you just, you've heard them like when you were like a teenager, right? 14, 15, and you say like they really motivated you to pick up a guitar. I mean, you were singing, but 100%. What was it about them when you heard them? Because I have a theory about what it was for me, like what I, why I was, and it's the same way I feel about your music. So go ahead, you first.

Speaker 3:
[22:39] Well, I heard their voices first in that film, Philadelphia. They were covering that Rod Stewart. I can tell by your eyes that you've probably been crying forever. And I was like, what is that tone? Like they don't sound male or female. They don't sound like they're singing to the same people that everyone else is singing to. There was just something galvanizing about their voices and the way they were making music that just like pulled me out of myself as like a 14 year old, made me curious about who they were. It wasn't even one of their songs. And that's when my friend from school, Brianna Graco, loaned me her Swampophilia CD. And I was like, what is this? Listen to these harmonies. Like, who's singing when? It's staggered, it's out of time. It's amazing, you know? And the drums really, I just became so obsessed with their musical complexity and harmonies that I just became devoted and a disciple. I went to everything they ever did. I sat in the line all day, like from morning till night as a major fan, still a major fan. What drew you to them?

Speaker 1:
[23:49] I guess sometimes it feels like there's different artists. There's artists that are in their own simulation, their own kind of world. You get to come in and peek, but they're in their worlds.

Speaker 3:
[23:59] Right. It has a style of dress and a style of speak. There's a culture around that artist.

Speaker 1:
[24:05] You can visit their world and you get to just peek in. Then there are artists, and I consider you one of them, who are relaxed and honestly confident in their talent, just like the Ingo Girls. They say, come in, come over. Like, come over here. They felt that way. We wanted to sing every one of their songs. I knew their lyrics. I felt like I sounded like them, which everybody who sings the Ingo Girls think they sound good. They don't.

Speaker 5:
[24:32] We don't.

Speaker 1:
[24:33] And it's the same with your music. Like, when I sing along to your music, I'm like, I think I'm really good, because there's a spirit behind it that isn't, that's inclusive and that doesn't, like, shut the door. It's really, it's hard to explain, but do you know what I'm talking about?

Speaker 3:
[24:50] I know exactly what you're talking about. They're so unaffected. They sound like grown ass women, they always have. So, like, when they open their mouths to sing, their actual voice comes out. They're not trying to please men or a certain kind of women. They're not trying to sound like anybody else on the radio. There was just something so human about, even with the clothes they wore and the way that they presented themselves. And you're right, that does invite you in. And also the Indigo Girls, they come to you. Like, they're famous for, like, touring the small towns and the sheds and the community theaters.

Speaker 1:
[25:19] Do you know me and Dratch played them on SNL?

Speaker 3:
[25:21] Yeah, I do remember that.

Speaker 1:
[25:23] Me and Rachel Dratch, one scene, it never came back.

Speaker 3:
[25:26] I don't know.

Speaker 1:
[25:27] And it was the Lance Armstrong, comedians, comedies, Lance Armstrong was the host. And Neil Young was a musical guest. And we had Neil come in to the Indigo Girls scene. And we just were like, I think we were just pretending we were doing a talk show, probably, like, you know. And it was us and like 14 dogs.

Speaker 3:
[25:47] Yeah. That's exactly how Amy lives to this day. I think she's probably only got eight or nine right now, but.

Speaker 1:
[25:56] And I feel like we'll move off the Indigo Girls, but I just have to say that it feels like as an alto, as a surprising alto. Because you would think, I don't know, I think my voice, I think my voice is lower than it is, but I think it pitches quite high. But switching, to your point, switching back and forth, like wanting to decide if you want to sing Emily's part or Amy's part. Can we sing? Can we sing? Okay, let's sing Closer to Fine.

Speaker 2:
[26:28] Oh, girl.

Speaker 1:
[26:30] Sorry, let me get my other hands.

Speaker 3:
[26:31] Not only could we do Closer to Fine, we could do a deep cut, we could do anything you want.

Speaker 1:
[26:35] Okay, here we go. I'll try to do Amy's part.

Speaker 3:
[26:38] Okay.

Speaker 1:
[26:39] You start. I went to the doctor. Here we go on three. One, two, three.

Speaker 3:
[26:44] What key are we in?

Speaker 1:
[26:46] I don't know.

Speaker 3:
[26:47] I went to the doctor.

Speaker 1:
[26:50] I went to the mountains. I should be lower.

Speaker 3:
[26:53] Yeah. So I think you're I went. That's you. I went to the doctor.

Speaker 1:
[26:57] Okay.

Speaker 3:
[26:58] Two, three, four. Travel a little bit, just a little bit. A little bit, I'm off. Yeah, just a little bit.

Speaker 1:
[27:10] Fucking hell.

Speaker 3:
[27:11] You're right there though, you're in the zone.

Speaker 1:
[27:13] Let's go again. Just two, three, four.

Speaker 4:
[27:26] Girl, you got it.

Speaker 5:
[27:31] Look at how good you are, Brandi.

Speaker 3:
[27:32] Making me feel so good. If I had a guitar, we would do nothing else. But covering the Good Girls for the next hour.

Speaker 1:
[27:40] I'm totally sweating. I'm so sweating. That was so exciting.

Speaker 3:
[27:46] Who was the first person that told you you had a good voice?

Speaker 1:
[27:49] Because when someone says you have a good voice, you remember it for a lifetime.

Speaker 3:
[27:55] No one's ever asked me that before. I think it was my grandma Dolores or my mom. And then definitely me. I really felt like I had a good voice. I got seven years old.

Speaker 1:
[28:08] You have a fucking great voice.

Speaker 3:
[28:10] But I didn't. When I listen back to it now, I'm like, what is that? Oh, at seven? Yeah. But I actually got on stage for the first time as an eight-year-old. I got in a community theater show called the Northwest Grand Ole Opry, where we reenacted the Grand Ole Opry.

Speaker 1:
[28:28] So cute.

Speaker 3:
[28:29] And you'd go on Wednesday night and you'd teach the Opry band your song and then they'd get you out on Friday and Saturday. And I was like the only kid and and I did Tennessee Flat Top Box by Rosanne Cash. And I just remember like the very first time I did that. I walked out on stage and I wasn't nervous. I had glasses on and I can remember the lights in my glasses and seeing the kind of silhouette of like 300 people and being like, this is where I belong. This is the safest, most understood and loved place I could I could ever be like, this is my job now. And it just not never, it never went that just stayed. Wow.

Speaker 1:
[29:10] And so the audience told you that you could sing like in that moment, the audience was like, yes, we accept you here. You're great. You knew it. Oh, so great.

Speaker 3:
[29:19] And the whole thing, they would come up to you at the end of the show and you'd sign their program and you'd sign your little autograph. And I just remember thinking, yeah, no, this is it. This is my job.

Speaker 1:
[29:28] Wow, that's awesome. I mean, that's a good example too of like feeling calm in stressful situations. I tend to get like, Hugh, I'm not so nervous when I'm doing something. Sometimes after it's done, I have like this discharge of nerves. Does that happen to you?

Speaker 3:
[29:46] I was reading an article in The Guardian that was such a smart article, and it made me feel so like stupid, but kind of proud to be stupid, where it basically says that like that what you're talking about is totally necessary in terms of performers. It's such an unnatural thing to have your psychosympathetic nervous system to do what we do, that you have to lack an element of contextual intelligence to do it.

Speaker 1:
[30:16] Baby, I lack it.

Speaker 3:
[30:18] I lack it. And they liken it to like people that can do penalty kicks and like free throws. It's like we have this thing where we don't think anything could go wrong.

Speaker 1:
[30:27] Totally. And I'm just, and I kind of dissociate in a way of like, whatever, what's the worst that can happen?

Speaker 3:
[30:32] I get fired. Exactly. Yeah. And then if something does go wrong, so if you do miss the free throw, or you do miss the penalty, which you do all the time, you don't think, well, of course I did, chances are I would. It's a tiny ball, tiny net. You just go, that was weird. That'll never happen again. And it's like that repetition of stupidity is what gives us our gift.

Speaker 1:
[30:54] It's so true. I mean, SNL was a really good training ground for that. Live performance in general is really good because you have a mistake. Does this happen to you when there's a tiny mistake? Not a terrible, like you don't want something bad. But when there's a tiny mistake, do you get a little energized?

Speaker 3:
[31:12] Yeah. Because you're like, I got to save it. I can do one, I can't do two.

Speaker 1:
[31:15] Yeah. And it's a little bit exciting.

Speaker 3:
[31:17] Yeah. Because two mistakes? No. But one is like kind of good.

Speaker 1:
[31:21] Do you remember a mistake that happened when you were performing and you just, I don't know, like a mic went out or someone didn't come and get the mic, and you just had a moment of pure excitement and the tingle of that? Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[31:35] But it happens so often. There isn't a notable one. There's this guy I know that does guitar solo, like this guitar solo master. He's a dude that I've toured with. Just because if I can have this happen twice in a show, it takes the show over the top. So this dude, and he will never have meant this, but he'll start out his guitar solo with a couple of maybe stock licks, or just a couple of notes that are like, oh, those are tasteful, and then he'll make a mistake, and then it rallies everyone to his support. We rage to his side and we go, oh, no, he might not have this. Oh, so good. Oh, God, and then he looks a little frazzled and he shakes his head a little bit, and he kind of does the next lick, and it's okay. And by the end of it, he's just shredding, and you realize that there's no way he could ever make a mistake. But that mistake drawing everyone in, not just to listen to him, but to like, you want to support him. Yeah. And then his victory becomes your victory. So one mistake does that in a performance or a song. Two mistakes is like, she's not prepared.

Speaker 1:
[32:38] It's so true. And you're absolutely like, the way you take in the mistake, like, ha-ha. Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[32:47] This episode is brought to you by Instagram. Instagram teen accounts have automatic protections for what teens see and who can contact them, plus time management tools. And Instagram will continue adding built-in safety features to help create age-appropriate experiences. Learn more about teen accounts and Instagram's ongoing work to protect teens online at instagram.com/teenaccounts.

Speaker 1:
[33:11] This episode is brought to you by Subaru. For me, going the extra mile means taking the long way home. If you're going to grab snacks and the 10-minute trip turns into a two-hour journey, suddenly you're on a new street, then your ice cream is melted in the back, and we've solved the meaning of life. But luckily, in my Subaru Hybrid, that's right, I have one, and I love it. That extra mile is built right in, with longer range and better fuel efficiency than ever before. The Subaru Forester Hybrid and the Subaru Crosstrek Hybrid. Great cards, I have them both. Love goes the extra mile. Visit subaru.com/hybrid to learn more. This episode is brought to you by Visible. Folks, whether you're swiping for the one or already found them, there's one thing nobody wants this season, and that's getting catfished. And it's not just dating profiles that are putting you at risk, it's also big wireless carriers. You know the type. It looks great at first, promises a low price, but once you're locked in, surprise fees and an expensive bill that isn't what you were expecting. Your knight in shining armor? Visible Wireless. It's one-line wireless with unlimited data and hotspot for just $25 a month, taxes and fees included. Now that's a green flag. The best part? Visible is all digital, so you can switch as fast as you can swipe. Don't fall for the trap of getting catfished by wireless. Visit visible.com to learn more and start loving your wireless carrier. Terms apply? See visible.com for plan features and network management details. This episode is brought to you by eBay. On eBay, every find has a story. Like if you're looking for a vintage band tee, not just a tee, the band tee. You wore it everywhere until your ex stole it. Now you're on eBay. There it is. Same tee from the same tour. The things you love have a way of finding their way back to you, especially on eBay. Shop eBay for millions of finds, each with a story. eBay, things people love. I've always felt this about the way you perform and seeing you like the way you talk about yourself and your music and your art and the way you look at like at the business of it all. It's supposed to be fun. And if you're relaxed, we're relaxed. If you're having a good time, we're gonna having a good time. It's like if the bride has a good time at the wedding, it's a fun wedding, like period at the end. But it's a hard lesson to learn, which is try to, I mean telling people to relax is really hard. How do you relax when you're about to perform? How do you like, how do you just, you just, it just comes natural and always has?

Speaker 3:
[35:48] Well, I used to drink a little bit.

Speaker 5:
[35:50] Sure.

Speaker 3:
[35:51] And if you drink a little bit, and then you stop drinking a little bit, before you go on stage, then it's like starting over from never having drank a little bit. So that sucked.

Speaker 1:
[36:00] Yeah, I don't drink anymore. It's like, I can't handle it. I mean... I just get too drunk too fast. I have no tolerance.

Speaker 3:
[36:08] I think I drink a lot of things really fast, like a camel. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[36:13] Now I know what you mean. Just a little bit, and suddenly you're like, oh, I am not on my game.

Speaker 3:
[36:17] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[36:18] I'm not a shark.

Speaker 3:
[36:19] And then it's like the spiral afterwards. That's the thing I can't deal with. And then pretend the spiral just happened in front of a few thousand people. And then whatever you say, you have to stand by that the next day. So that's not that lovely.

Speaker 1:
[36:32] We're back to the few minutes between the song.

Speaker 3:
[36:34] Back to the few minutes between the song, where you decide to get overtly political in an unironic way, or you make the joke. And you were in The Pick of Destiny.

Speaker 1:
[36:46] Yeah, Tenacious D.

Speaker 3:
[36:48] Yeah. I'm not going to tell the story again. I just told the story on Stern.

Speaker 1:
[36:52] Oh, you already told them. I don't want any Stern. I don't want any sloppy Stern seconds.

Speaker 3:
[36:56] I don't want any Stern seconds. But you were in the film.

Speaker 1:
[36:59] But you gotta tell Stern. When you, I love Howard. But when you're on Stern, you gotta give Stern a good story. Like you gotta bring some meat to Howard Stern.

Speaker 3:
[37:06] I'm gonna tell you the story, and you can edit it out if you want to. But I just think that you would appreciate this because we were on the subject of drinking and then getting on stage in front of people. So I thought everyone had seen The Pick of Destiny. And I mean, I don't mean to be offensive, but like not everyone has seen The Pick of Destiny.

Speaker 1:
[37:22] This is Jack Black and Kyle Gass's Tenacious D. So Jack Black is in a band called Tenacious D, which made a movie called The Pick of Destiny, which is a real cult classic.

Speaker 3:
[37:32] It's a cult classic, but it was my favorite movie. And I had memorized every line in these guys, because this was like how I was in bands like this. They have to win the Battle of Bands because they have to pay their rent, but they're never going to win the Battle of Bands without The Pick of Destiny, which is like a piece of the devil's horn or toenail or something. But to win the Battle of Bands, they have got to learn a couple of moves. And one of the moves is called the Rock Slide, and the other move is called the Cock Push Up.

Speaker 1:
[37:58] Yeah, they used to do Cock Push Ups on stage.

Speaker 3:
[38:02] And so my audience didn't see The Pick of Destiny, but I believed everyone had seen The Pick of Destiny. So I was in Las Vegas, and I was on stage and I was having a few drinks, and I decided to jump off the drum riser. And my knees just didn't hold. They just buckled. And so I kind of like went on my knees and I kind of styled it. And I did like the rock back on the knees thing. And after the song, I stood up. And this is why I'm afraid of the 15 seconds between the songs. And I said to the audience, I said, well, now that you've seen my rock slide, now it's time for my Cock Push Up.

Speaker 1:
[38:41] This is a good story for Stern.

Speaker 3:
[38:43] And that didn't go over. Nobody knew why Brandi was telling a couple of thousand middle-aged lesbians that she was going to do a Cock Push Up.

Speaker 4:
[38:59] So I don't drink anymore.

Speaker 1:
[39:01] Are you done drinking?

Speaker 3:
[39:03] I'm done drinking and working, Amy.

Speaker 4:
[39:05] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[39:06] Also, I just think it gets harder as we get older. I just think everything is harder and everything is better. What's good about getting older?

Speaker 3:
[39:14] Well, I mean, I travel with this migraine medication in my pocket at all times.

Speaker 1:
[39:22] But not a sponsor, not a sponsor.

Speaker 3:
[39:24] No, it's unsponsored, but that's just there. Okay, so I can't really drink.

Speaker 1:
[39:29] Also, can we talk about these packages? How do you get into it?

Speaker 3:
[39:34] You rip it apart with your teeth because you're desperate.

Speaker 1:
[39:36] Well, that's because you have your own teeth. Not everybody has their own teeth.

Speaker 3:
[39:41] So what were you asking?

Speaker 5:
[39:42] How is it to get older?

Speaker 1:
[39:43] Okay, so anyway, yes, getting older.

Speaker 3:
[39:47] Every year I get older, I love being older more than I loved being younger.

Speaker 1:
[39:51] Yeah, me too.

Speaker 3:
[39:52] I just love it. I like everything. I like the way that my reverence has grown and sense of humor has changed. I choose myself in more situations. I like the way my face looks. I like, you know, I like it.

Speaker 1:
[40:05] Yeah, me too. I mean, I don't think enough people talk about it. They just don't talk about it. I mean, fifties have, I'm 54, the fifties have been my favorite decade. Oh, by far.

Speaker 3:
[40:14] That's what I think is going to happen.

Speaker 1:
[40:15] Oh, by far. My fifties birthday was so fun. I mean, I know there's a lot that comes along with it. And especially for people who don't feel like they're in the place they should be, like that feels really hurt, can be really hurtful and stressful, or they're not with the person they should be with, or they've had a lot that they've gone through. But I don't think enough people talk about how it just can get better and better and better and better. We're just so obsessed with youth, you know? Yeah. We really, and I love young people too.

Speaker 3:
[40:43] Yeah, me too. I love young people and I'm always like, oh, enjoy that space, be there, you know? And I have kids too. And I'm like, oh my God, be a kid, be a kid. But if I'm really honest, that wasn't my favorite part of my life, even if, you know, I walked in front of a bus tomorrow and I got to like, my life flashed before my eyes. I think I probably see the last five years. Yes.

Speaker 1:
[41:08] Yeah. Very cool.

Speaker 3:
[41:10] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[41:11] I mean, there's a lot of young people that love you and relate to you and feel seen by you and love your music. And you do this thing, I think, for a lot of people, where you bridge older artists and bring them back into this like present world. And there's a, you know, a million people that you work with, incredible artists. First of all, what is it like to work with your heroes like Elton John, Joni Mitchell? Like, when you meet them, how do you manage that feeling of Indigo Girls where you are like, I was a young Brandi, was a fan waiting outside, and now we're together and I'm going to, you know, I'm kind of helping produce this thing we're doing together. How do you, what's that feeling like? How do you do it?

Speaker 3:
[42:00] That's a really good question and it's a sacred feeling. It's a really sacred feeling because like, and I guess also the older I get and the more young people do come up to me and say things to me that I remember saying to my heroes, it like, I'm that kind of fan, like I'm a wait outside your tour bus kind of fan. So like, I'm hearing these words and I'm like, I remember those words. And I'm just remembering like, I'm just understanding how full circle life can be and how human we all are. I actually don't see, I don't even understand like, what a fan is without the context of me, you know, because everybody that like, I really idolize, like I've got to be friends with. And so there is a part of that, that never goes away. And it sort of like sneaks up on you like Deja Vu or something. You'll be in an interaction that is feeling totally normal. And then suddenly one thing will flash through the room and you'll be like, oh my god, this is Elton John. And it's like those moments are, I really cherish him. I just grab him and hold on to him and I go, yeah, yeah, you did it. You did it.

Speaker 1:
[43:06] Yeah. And it's also an indication that you're still in touch with that part of yourself. Like you don't feel like above it or beyond it or over it. It's really cool.

Speaker 3:
[43:16] Yeah. And staying in touch with that part of myself keeps me honest in my responsibility within my job too to other people that like my music and, you know, buy that concert ticket and get the babysitter and, you know, get dressed up and go out for the night. Like I'm really going to show up for that gig because I just understand.

Speaker 1:
[43:37] What's Elton like? I've never met him and he seems incredible. Like also he's always discovering new artists.

Speaker 3:
[43:44] Yeah, always.

Speaker 1:
[43:45] Like he's really into new music all the time.

Speaker 3:
[43:47] You've never met him?

Speaker 1:
[43:48] No.

Speaker 3:
[43:48] See, that's the other thing is most people have met Elton because he's so social and he's just so like you will meet him.

Speaker 1:
[43:54] And like a real extrovert.

Speaker 3:
[43:55] Absolutely love him. Total extrovert. But like one of those people that's reached maybe the most iconic status that you can possibly reach with absolutely no trace of narcissism.

Speaker 1:
[44:11] I know.

Speaker 3:
[44:12] Like he's competitive and he's intense and he knows he's Elton John.

Speaker 1:
[44:15] I love a competitive person.

Speaker 3:
[44:16] Oh God, I know so do I. I mean, I have a lot of it.

Speaker 1:
[44:18] You got to want to try to win a little bit.

Speaker 3:
[44:20] But he will ask you questions and listen to your answers and be just genuinely intrigued like by you. And that's why he's discovering all these younger artists.

Speaker 1:
[44:29] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[44:29] He's just an exceptional man.

Speaker 1:
[44:31] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[44:32] Once in a millennium man.

Speaker 1:
[44:33] And you've worked with Dolly who just-

Speaker 3:
[44:36] That's another one.

Speaker 1:
[44:37] What is it like to sing next to Dolly? What does that feel like? Dolly Parton.

Speaker 3:
[44:42] She's impeccable. She does not miss. So the standard is like so high. Like Dolly is the boss. And so when I show up for Dolly, like I show up on time, buttoned all the way up to the top button and I don't miss. I know everything I'm supposed to do. And she doesn't like ask you to meet that standard, but it's there. Like Dolly has high expectations. And yeah, she's just amazing.

Speaker 1:
[45:11] And the work you've done recently with Joni by Joni's side is just so cool. It felt like you were you were the professional and the fan at the same time.

Speaker 3:
[45:21] That's such a nice thing to say. Oh, that's such a nice thing to say and nice way to look at it. I felt like a student a lot of the time because that music was so wildly complex and inaccessible to me at first. Even though I was a fan of it, I had never had to get inside of it and learn phrasing and learn the key changes, the melody. It's a roller coaster. The melodies are roller coasters. You don't have those twists and turns ready. And then take that and combine it with the fact that Joni doesn't ever like to do the same thing twice. And if she thinks if she thinks you know what she's going to do, she's not going to do it. So, it's a really wild thing getting to sit shotgun next to Joni. And as her recovery has progressed and she's gotten more and more and more that way. And I see the spirit of who Joni Mitchell has always been more and more every day that she delves into her own music.

Speaker 1:
[46:22] And it must be so cool to talk to like young teenagers who are discovering her for the first time.

Speaker 3:
[46:26] Well, they come up to me en masse. That's probably the thing I end up talking about the most. And I love it. I never grow tired of talking about Joni and the Joni journey. But younger people and much older people alike, that is the thing everyone comes to me and says, okay, look, I've got Joni Mitchell's lyrics tattooed on my arm. Like, really, Gracie Abrams. That's how I met Gracie.

Speaker 1:
[46:51] I'm also thinking about that sweet performer, Benicio.

Speaker 3:
[46:58] Oh yeah, Benicio.

Speaker 1:
[46:59] Who sang the joke with you.

Speaker 3:
[47:01] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[47:02] Many times, which is one incredible song. And just the way, you know, it's not easy to sing with legends and young people, like, who are kind of just starting out on their journey. Like, the way you performed with them, like Chris Farley. I'm like, remember that? That's my question. Do you remember when you did it?

Speaker 3:
[47:24] I do. I remember Benicio.

Speaker 4:
[47:27] But like, that was such a beautiful moment, too.

Speaker 1:
[47:29] And it really changed. How does a song change depending on who you perform it with?

Speaker 3:
[47:35] That, the, well, first of all, the innocence of that with Benicio, I was so impulsive back then. I, like, I would just, the school I went to, the public school I went to in the town I live in, a couple times a year, I'll do something for them. I'll just go speak in an assembly or whatever, you know? It actually feels good to, like, be cool in that school. Now that I'm an adult. Did you run out? Yeah, no, no one was. So I, you know, I went there and, like, Benicio came up and he sang that song and it was just, it was stunning. And I was like, I'm going to be on TV next week. Come with me to New York. And I could be so impulsive. Like the stakes were like, I don't want to say they were low, but it felt like the stakes were really low. Like back then, like, I didn't know what I was going to wear. And I just took a kid from my school with me, you know? And I remember, like, it had been no big deal to me, cause I'd already been doing it so much at that point, you know? And when we, they say on those, what was it, Seth? Or was it?

Speaker 1:
[48:29] Okay, this is a great question, cause I tried to look it up. I have a laptop. I can't find it.

Speaker 3:
[48:33] I can't remember which one it was.

Speaker 1:
[48:35] It said late show, which could mean 45 different shows.

Speaker 3:
[48:38] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[48:38] It said they had the word late in it, and I thought it was Jimmy Fallon, but then it might have been Colbert.

Speaker 3:
[48:43] The show was late at night, there's a white man hosting.

Speaker 1:
[48:44] And if it's Seth, I should be able to find it. But I cannot find it. And also, I'm not great at looking things up.

Speaker 3:
[48:50] Well, in these shows, which I love doing, they say you can retake if you need to, but you don't, you're not supposed to. But Benicio froze, and he totally froze. And we walked backstage at the thing, and he was just crying. And I was like, Benny, I understand. It's like you're so young, and maybe, I don't know, I should have talked to you about this a little bit more. It's okay, listen, you're not supposed to retake it, but let me go out and see if they'll let us do it again. And they did. And so the band went back out, re-set up, and we did it again. Brandi. And I just, the real lesson in that was, if there was anything about that that was, I think, really good for Benicio's growth was that mistake, that failure, that moment of catastrophe turned into a total triumph for Benicio.

Speaker 1:
[49:46] It was so triumphant. And that makes so much sense, because your joy in the way he was singing with you, you could feel it in that performance, and it makes a lot of sense that you were really excited that he was nailing it.

Speaker 3:
[49:59] Yeah, and it was twice the victory, because he got it together. That's the only thing we have to do. We have to pull it together and just try it.

Speaker 1:
[50:06] That's what winners do.

Speaker 3:
[50:07] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[50:08] I mean, not like it's a competition, but well done, Benicio. Can I ask you your relationship to your hair? Because it's a deeper question for me about how we all play around with our mask and fem energy, basically.

Speaker 3:
[50:23] Yeah, yeah, totally.

Speaker 1:
[50:24] And when you were young watching Lilith Fair, and then when you came out as an artist, when I first saw you, you had long hair. And I'm curious how you have changed and how your hair has changed, and are they connected?

Speaker 3:
[50:41] Yeah. And that's such an interesting and intuitive question. No one has ever asked me a question like that before, and now I'm very conscious of my hair so much.

Speaker 1:
[50:48] Me too. I think hair is political, right? Yeah. And it's interesting, our relationship with it, and it changes all the time. And we're telling people who we are through it.

Speaker 3:
[51:00] Yeah. Well, somebody asked me recently about coming out, about when I really truly felt like I had stepped into my authentic self. And I just, without even thinking about it, said, when I cut my hair, when I cut my hair. And at that time in my life, yeah, if you saw in the Lilith doc, I had like a little boy, like almost buzz cut, like haircut. And I loved it. It was so freeing. I loved having it off my neck. I loved that my mom hated it. I loved everything about like that haircut. And then, yeah, and then I definitely have played around with and felt comfortable moving in and out of kind of gender representation throughout all of my adolescence. And a lot of times it would depend on my girlfriend, like what girlfriend I had and like what her hair was like. But I've always liked how I looked and changing that and asking myself if I liked, you know, where I was at. And yeah, hair is like the first thing to address.

Speaker 1:
[52:02] You know, we kind of make jokes in the world where like someone has the same hair style for 40 years. But what's behind that? What's behind that is like a fear of like, if I change, will I recognize myself? Right. Will I recognize myself? Because so many people want to, you know, they want to feel younger. They want to feel like the version of themselves when they were feeling the best about themselves. That's what happens. I know when so much of it is hair. And like we make fun of like men with comb overs, for example, right? Like we make fun of people who like won't let go. But like, I don't know, it's just there's a lot of self-esteem that comes from hair. I'm like making any sense here.

Speaker 3:
[52:41] No, you're making too much sense. Plus, I do feel like for me, if I wanted to grow my hair, I don't think it would grow long past a certain point.

Speaker 1:
[52:48] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[52:48] I feel like it would like actually physically just be like, nope, you're getting a bob. It's just going to split at the ear. But no, I know what you mean. That is something that comes in all the time. Then add queerness to that and like the gender issue that you so intuitively pointed out to that, and then it can get like another layer of complication for sure. But I have definitely seen that when a central core group of lesbians will set a trend for themselves, and not alone by the way, usually it takes a team like it does with me. But then you will start to see lesbians everywhere looking. Like I've noticed that me and Kate McKinnon are morphing into each other in more ways than once.

Speaker 1:
[53:36] I didn't say it. Okay, I want to talk to you a little bit about touring. You really nicely came, when Tina and I were on tour, you really nicely came one time and did our show, which was so nice of you.

Speaker 3:
[53:49] I don't think you know how enthused I was to get to do that. I don't think what I did to get home so that I could do that.

Speaker 1:
[53:56] Oh, Brandi, thank you.

Speaker 3:
[53:57] It wasn't even a thank you thing. It was like, it's a thank you from me. I was so excited to get to do that. I love you guys so much. You said famously that, first of all, I love everything you've done, all the movies and everything like that. And Sisters is like, stop right now. Pick of Destiny, definitely. But you said the best SNL cast is the one when you were 13. Not for me. It was the late 90s to mid-early 2000s. That is my SNL cast. So you guys are like everything to me. And I was so excited to get to go there and do Healthy.

Speaker 1:
[54:32] We had an amazing couple of years. I gotta say, when I look at who I was on SNL with at the time, it was crazy heavy hitters.

Speaker 3:
[54:39] Ana, Maya, you, Tina, Rachel, I mean, Will, Horatio. Did you cross over with Chris Catan at all? Just, I don't know. I'm just, all I'm saying is that you can cut this if you want, but I'm just such a fan and to get to do that with you guys was huge.

Speaker 1:
[54:55] It's funny that you bring up Chris Catan. Just yesterday, my kid was eating mango and he was like, do you want the mango? And I was like, do you want to the mango? And he was like, what? And I was like, oh, there's a character named Mango that you wanted the mango. I'm going to show it to you. I was like, you have no idea. You haven't met Mango yet?

Speaker 4:
[55:12] Yeah, no.

Speaker 1:
[55:15] And so, but touring is its own thing and it's own, you know, and I'm sure you have it down. You've toured a million different ways and you've figured out like how you like to tour. What do you like about touring and what have you adjusted now to make you like it even more? How do you adjust it Brandi style? So you know what I mean. Like, oh, if I'm going to be in the city, I'm going to make sure that I don't visit anybody and don't do anything but just do my show. Or I'm going to back time three hours from the show and make sure I have a steak or whatever. Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[55:48] Well, it's changed so much because you've accumulated people. Yeah. And restaurants and places and parks and walks and little urban rivers to fish in, in my case.

Speaker 1:
[55:58] Yeah, you're a big fisher. You love to fish. Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[56:00] So I've acquired memories in each of these places. They're my place now. And so yeah, I go there and I do all those things. And now that I'm older and I can't sing as uninhibitedly as I used to when I was younger and I used to just blow my voice out all the time. I'm really careful about days off. So I wind up getting a day off usually in most cities to sort of experience it. One thing I can't do is sleep all day. That's not good for me emotionally. And like I said, I can't do too much drinking.

Speaker 1:
[56:29] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[56:30] And...

Speaker 1:
[56:31] Let's talk about sleep for a second.

Speaker 3:
[56:33] Yeah, sleep, man.

Speaker 1:
[56:34] Do you like it?

Speaker 3:
[56:34] Well, we got to do it.

Speaker 1:
[56:35] Do you get enough?

Speaker 3:
[56:37] I do. I do.

Speaker 1:
[56:38] What do you do? What's your bedtime routine?

Speaker 3:
[56:40] Okay. Well, it involves a heating pad.

Speaker 1:
[56:43] Do you know about the biomat?

Speaker 3:
[56:44] Yeah. You know, Alanis Morissette just sent me one. And it's life changing.

Speaker 1:
[56:49] It's changed my... First of all, it's impossible to get up off of it. Once you get on, it sucks you in.

Speaker 3:
[56:55] Yeah. And you got to be so careful not to bed rot when you're not sleeping. Like, don't go back to that bed once you get out.

Speaker 1:
[57:01] Do you put your biomat in your bed?

Speaker 3:
[57:03] I mean, I've been known to.

Speaker 1:
[57:07] For those people that don't know, there's many versions of it, but it's basically like a giant heating pad that has crystals in it or whatever they say. And it grounds you. And it's incredible.

Speaker 3:
[57:19] Yeah, it's incredible. And I love a heating pad. Like I travel with one. But my bedtime routine is, yeah, I get on the heating pad. And I take a melatonin gummy. Nice. And I talk with my wife and we do the debrief of the day. That's, I think, so important for, I think that's so, I don't know, do you do that?

Speaker 1:
[57:37] Yeah, I love the, I love the being able to kind of have a review of the day.

Speaker 3:
[57:43] Get out of your own head and the way that you saw yourself in your own behavior, hear somebody else's take on it. If you're developing conspiracy theories about other people or starting to crystallize into like weird political belief systems, you learned, you went down a rabbit hole or whatever and then you just, you have a conversation with a human being that knows you at night. Yeah. It's a real head cleansing experience.

Speaker 1:
[58:09] It's also a time where you can kind of decide like, I'm going to drag some of these things to trash and then some I'm going to kind of take with me to the next day. Yeah. Like some I'm going to just kind of talk through and they're going to float away.

Speaker 3:
[58:20] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[58:20] And other things I'm going to remember and keep.

Speaker 3:
[58:22] Yeah. And you kind of dream calibrate.

Speaker 1:
[58:24] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[58:25] Yeah. And then you get...

Speaker 1:
[58:26] Do you wear an eye shade? Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[58:27] Lately.

Speaker 1:
[58:28] Interesting. Earplugs?

Speaker 3:
[58:30] No. I feel claustrophobic when I put in earplugs.

Speaker 1:
[58:32] Yeah. Same. I can't do earplugs. And eye shade, I can't really do either. What's your sleep routine?

Speaker 3:
[58:37] And do you get enough?

Speaker 1:
[58:39] I try to get so much. I love sleep so much. All I think about is when can I get sleep and like how many hours can I get and...

Speaker 3:
[58:46] What's your mattress?

Speaker 1:
[58:49] That's where I need some help.

Speaker 3:
[58:51] Okay. I got some thoughts.

Speaker 1:
[58:53] Really? Tell me.

Speaker 3:
[58:54] Okay. So I'm a big mattress person. The first, the very first thing I did when I made any money was buy every single person I know a mattress.

Speaker 1:
[59:01] Whoa, that's such a baller move.

Speaker 3:
[59:04] It was like when Tempur-Pedix first came out and I didn't have that much money. Some of them I financed.

Speaker 1:
[59:12] You were like, I'm going to get this paid someday.

Speaker 3:
[59:14] Yes, exactly.

Speaker 1:
[59:16] That is awesome.

Speaker 3:
[59:17] Because of the sleep thing. That was when Tempur-Pedix first came out. I was like a big Tempur-Pedix person. I do not get paid by Tempur-Pedix. I bought everyone a Tempur-Pedix mattress. Lately, I've really been into this other mattress called the Purple Mattress. So these two?

Speaker 1:
[59:36] I need a new mattress. Okay, these are the ones. A new mattress is one of those adult things that literally feels impossible. You're like, I guess I can never get it. I'm really good at adulting. I get a lot of stuff done. I'm not a procrastinator. But something about a new mattress, I'm like, I guess I'll just never get a mattress.

Speaker 3:
[59:56] Why?

Speaker 1:
[59:56] I don't know.

Speaker 3:
[59:57] I guess they're really hard to lift in the world.

Speaker 1:
[60:00] Okay, what do you like about this mattress?

Speaker 3:
[60:02] Well, I mean...

Speaker 1:
[60:04] Sell me this mattress.

Speaker 3:
[60:05] The purple mattress?

Speaker 1:
[60:06] Sure.

Speaker 3:
[60:06] Okay, so it's anything that feels like this zero-gravity mattress situation where you like... In my mind, I tell myself, if I'm not pressed up against something hard and my blood can flow freely throughout my body and my circulation is good, then I'm healing when I'm asleep.

Speaker 1:
[60:22] So you like... Do you like a softness then? You don't like a firm mattress?

Speaker 3:
[60:27] It's like less blankets, more blankets. It's like a combination of things. But I just think that like Tempur-Pedic and Purple, these two mattresses, they provide this kind of zero-gravity feeling where if you wake up in the middle of the night, no part of you feels pressed up against something else.

Speaker 1:
[60:40] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[60:40] And also if we ever sleep in the same bed, which I feel like is a possibility, don't touch me. I don't like to be touched by other people when I'm sleeping. A hundred.

Speaker 1:
[60:48] No touching. Absolutely no touching. Well, I mean, also I'm a certain age where like I have to find cool spots a lot.

Speaker 3:
[60:54] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[60:54] It's still like... It's very hot. So, and I don't like touching. And also I've said this many times before on a podcast and I'm sorry I'm saying it, but I wear a CPAP machine.

Speaker 3:
[61:04] Oh.

Speaker 1:
[61:05] So. And because I have sleep apnea.

Speaker 3:
[61:11] We are so hot when we go to bed.

Speaker 1:
[61:15] So is that gonna... I think that's gonna really...

Speaker 3:
[61:17] Eye mask, no earplugs. Special mask, she has a CPAP machine.

Speaker 2:
[61:23] It's so hot.

Speaker 1:
[61:25] That's like, I mean, it's true love, actually. It's whoever, whoever can get past that is, it's really true love.

Speaker 3:
[61:32] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[61:34] But what's in your rider? Do you have a rider?

Speaker 3:
[61:36] Yeah, I do.

Speaker 1:
[61:37] Anything fun?

Speaker 3:
[61:39] No, it's so boring. Like, I'm just, I'm really coming off as a normal person. That's good, though.

Speaker 1:
[61:42] That means you're a normal person.

Speaker 3:
[61:42] Very boring to you.

Speaker 1:
[61:43] No, people that are, have weird riders feel, honestly, it feels like it's a stressful way to get people to run around for them.

Speaker 3:
[61:51] It is. Because you know, my best friend, her job was riders for a while. And that's kind of when I was like, no, my rider is like normal.

Speaker 1:
[61:59] It's like, what kind of stuff you got on there?

Speaker 3:
[62:00] I need an avocado.

Speaker 1:
[62:02] Perfect.

Speaker 3:
[62:03] I need lemons.

Speaker 1:
[62:04] Yep.

Speaker 3:
[62:04] I need just some like LaCroix.

Speaker 1:
[62:07] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[62:08] And it's got to be cold. And then like tuna salad.

Speaker 1:
[62:12] Love that.

Speaker 3:
[62:12] Every show, every, ever, I always have to have tuna salad and bananas. And I don't like any of those things.

Speaker 1:
[62:26] I'm going to have to have them. Okay, well, the rider question brings me to, we do this thing on the show, where we have people who know our guest, Zoom with me before I talk to our guest to speak well behind their back, and also to give me a question. So we talked to Marren Morris today.

Speaker 3:
[62:46] Oh, God, I love Marren.

Speaker 1:
[62:48] I know, I do too. I mean, the High Women were such a great example of you and all of those women, of course, but women working together in real time to make really cool stuff, and everyone's saying yes right away, and Brandi being the one that's like, let's do it, I'm going to make it happen, here are the dates, let's go, and then making this great record and performing with Dolly. It just feels like that whole experience was so awesome, was it?

Speaker 3:
[63:15] It was. It was not uncomplicated, but it was awesome. And just like something I am so proud we did, and actually it's something I think we should do again. Because it's like that combination of women was really interesting and wild, and I want that back in a way, especially as my, well, as my girls are getting older, I just, they were so little when I did it, and now, you know, that they are where they are, I just want them to watch us do it. I think they'd really learn from it. And then our kids, you know, like we did that, Marren didn't have a child yet. And, you know, it's like now they're all so big. Mercy's big, and Sammy Cho's big, and my kids are getting big, and I just, having a girl on the precipice of being a teenager, I think it would be a really neat thing to show them.

Speaker 1:
[64:05] Well, that's exactly what Marren's question was. She was basically saying, like, you have two daughters, you're watching your girls get older, they're coming to your shows. Like, her question was, like, any advice, because Marren's got a little boy, and what we were talking about was, even extrapolating from that, it's just this idea of a working mother, like how do we figure out how to invite our kids into the world and show them. It's such a great thing to watch your mom do what she loves to do. It's a big deal. Yeah, it's a big deal. And especially for young girls. So when they come and watch you, what do you think about when they're around you when you're on tour? I know you've brought them, of course, many times on tour. What are you thinking about now with your daughters and what you want them to see? And what do they like watching you perform?

Speaker 3:
[64:57] The girls like watching me perform. They're both really into sports, which is mystifying to me, because I never, you know, but like they were like watching the World Series and they were crying when the Mariners got defeated and now they won't ever even go to Toronto because they're so mad at the Blue Jays. And like, I have no feelings about sports whatsoever, but I'll take them to a game and then I'll watch them watch that. And I'm like, you know, the concerts don't really register in the same place for them.

Speaker 1:
[65:24] Well, it's like, how do you rebel when your mom's rock star is you become a jock?

Speaker 3:
[65:32] Oh, I hope this is not a sign of things to come, but they seem more, like, and this is occurring to me as I'm saying it, they seem more excited by and interested in the way I interact with fans as a person, as a public person than actually how I do music. They're more interested in the fact that I'm a little bit famous than whether I'm a good or bad singer. And they're very interested right now in the way my music interfaces with politics.

Speaker 1:
[66:02] Oh, wow.

Speaker 3:
[66:03] And maybe that's why I'm so interested in Marren's question and in being a part of, like, another chapter for the High Women, is I think they would really like it. Like, their very favorite song from my album is Church and State. They loved the SNL performance, and they're very proud of that, even with their limited knowledge, you know. They know that there's a struggle and that our family is a part of it. And they're very proud of that and more interested in that than they even seem to be the musical aspect.

Speaker 1:
[66:34] And they probably are just figuring that out, that, oh, my mom's art, her job is speaking to that. I bet you they're just figuring that out for the first time.

Speaker 3:
[66:45] They are. They like it.

Speaker 1:
[66:46] Very cool.

Speaker 3:
[66:47] Yeah, and they seem to be just energized about those kinds of things. And it does sort of translate to their behavior in sports and stuff. I took them to like a Seattle rain, a soccer game, and they were just took on a life of their own. You know that song, You Without Me from my album? Them in sports is a you without me moment. I don't know who they are when they're screaming those things and they're like, be aggressive, be, be aggressive. I'm like, no, don't be aggressive. But they're like, that's a chant, mom.

Speaker 2:
[67:18] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[67:19] That's a chant, mom. They're like, we're, we're, it's good. But that's so interesting though because I feel like you have a, you have a, you're, you are, you know, in positively competitive and you have a, a player's attitude toward your work.

Speaker 3:
[67:40] I'm driven, but I'm not competitive. Like, it's crazy.

Speaker 1:
[67:43] Okay, you're not competitive.

Speaker 3:
[67:44] No, it's actually annoying. It's annoying, I think.

Speaker 1:
[67:47] Interesting.

Speaker 3:
[67:47] And I think it puts me a little bit on the outs with my, some of my friends, even like my relationship with Elton. He's constantly annoyed by my lack of it. But if I'm up for an award and somebody else beats me, I mean, I'm deflated for like three and a half seconds until they get up and do their speech. And then I'm like fighting back tears from like feeling so happy for them. And like, I'll go see my own kid play soccer. And I'm just so, I'm so proud of all those little girls out there. I don't even know how to root for my own kid because I'm so, you know what I mean?

Speaker 1:
[68:19] Yeah. But, but, but what you're saying, you just have a healthy relationship to competition.

Speaker 3:
[68:24] Maybe.

Speaker 1:
[68:24] Because awards are crazy.

Speaker 3:
[68:27] And they're crazy.

Speaker 1:
[68:28] Of course. And, and you go there and it's like, if you actually, you know, what is winning? Winning is just being at the show. And same with, you know, watching, like anyone who like yells on the sideline is like total nut bag. Okay. So my last question is, and I ask all my guests this, and I know you're a real comedy fan.

Speaker 3:
[68:47] You're like real.

Speaker 1:
[68:49] Learning that. So you have, you probably have a refined taste and comedy is probably something that you seek out, pay attention to and care about. What are you listening to watching? A video, a TV show, a movie, old, new, or like, what makes you laugh? How are you like in these times, where do you go when you want to feel that lift? Where do I go?

Speaker 3:
[69:14] I go to a few core movies. Like I'll go to a few core comedy movies. And without sounding too retro or old school. I mean, I love Tommy Boy.

Speaker 1:
[69:25] Oh my God.

Speaker 3:
[69:25] I love Tommy Boy. I mean, Bridesmaids, everything, Tenacious D. I loved Sisters. I felt like that was a really important one for a lot of reasons. And then SNL, I like never miss SNL. I love SNL. And I've got my favorite old episodes and my favorite skits.

Speaker 1:
[69:45] What's one of your favorite SNL sketches?

Speaker 3:
[69:47] One of my favorite SNL sketches?

Speaker 1:
[69:49] We can watch it together.

Speaker 3:
[69:50] Oh my God, there's so many good ones. One that I come back to a lot is the Liza Minnelli turns on a lamp. Do you ever see that one?

Speaker 1:
[70:00] Kristen Wiig, a total genius.

Speaker 3:
[70:02] That's a really good one.

Speaker 1:
[70:05] Let's watch that for a second. I mean, and by the way, hilarious physical comedy, not great for podcasts, but okay. The title says Liza Minnelli tries to turn off a lamp.

Speaker 3:
[70:16] Oh, that's what it is.

Speaker 1:
[70:16] Yeah. I mean, Wiig is so friggin funny. I know. Okay, let's watch this one.

Speaker 3:
[70:24] I'm also a huge Tracy Morgan fan.

Speaker 1:
[70:26] Tracy Morgan. Okay, so this is New York.

Speaker 6:
[70:28] Sugar, babe, it's nobody but your cats, and the curtain goes up in 15 minutes.

Speaker 1:
[70:33] We got a school lizer.

Speaker 6:
[70:47] Brandi is dying.

Speaker 4:
[70:54] I love her.

Speaker 1:
[70:56] When she was on TV as a young kid, I was like, who is that? Liza, you're very talented.

Speaker 4:
[71:03] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[71:04] You should stick with it. Liza, stick with it. Stick with it, Liza. You picked the right job. And Brandi, so did you. You picked the right job. You're just the best singer. Congrats on your voice, on this record, on all the things that-

Speaker 3:
[71:18] You're the best. You are the funniest, most charming, most interesting person. I really feel I hope this is the beginning of a long friendship. Seriously.

Speaker 1:
[71:27] I know you have a lot of people live in your house. You have a lot of people in your house.

Speaker 3:
[71:32] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[71:33] One or two more, you might not even notice.

Speaker 3:
[71:34] No. If you need a trim carpenter, if you're afraid to work with wood, I can strengthen your resolve.

Speaker 1:
[71:40] I am. I feel like this time around, I'm probably not going to do that.

Speaker 3:
[71:43] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[71:44] But that's okay. God is fair.

Speaker 3:
[71:46] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[71:48] Thank you so much for doing this. This is so fun.

Speaker 3:
[71:51] I really loved it. It was everything I hoped it would be.

Speaker 1:
[71:57] Thank you so much, Brandi. You are incredible. It was so, so fun hanging with you. Yeah. We talked about so many good things. One thing that we spoke about, which I just wanted to correct or plunge deeper into in the Polar Plunge, was the performance that her and Benicio Bryant did together for the incredible song The Joke, which we all know is one of Brandi's best. That was on Late Night with Seth Meyers. Seth, I'm sorry that I forgot that. I love your work, Seth. I love what you do. I'm a big, big fan. But I can't remember where things air anymore. It sounded like it would be something that you would have done. Great, great idea. Whoever, I'm sure it wasn't your idea, but whoever on your staff said to do it, so smart and I'm sorry that I might have attributed that performance to another late night show. You're the only late night show I care about. So Seth, congrats on that. Brandi, beautiful work and listeners, thank you again for tuning in. See you soon. You've been listening to Good Hang. The executive producers for this show are Bill Simmons, Jenna Weiss-Berman and me, Amy Poehler. The show is produced by The Ringer and Paper Kite. For The Ringer, production by Jack Wilson, Kat Spillane, Kaya McMullen and Aleya Zenieris. For Paper Kite, production by Sam Green, Joel Lovell and Jenna Weiss-Berman. Original music by Amy Miles.

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Speaker 1:
[73:47] I love you.

Speaker 6:
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Speaker 3:
[73:52] Oh no, Lindy.

Speaker 6:
[73:54] In other words, the husband accidentally shrinks the wife to six inches tall using his super secret project, but he doesn't know how to unshrink her and she might be stuck mini forever.

Speaker 2:
[74:02] Make me big again now.

Speaker 6:
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