transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:00] YellaBird Media presents Higher Grounds, a scripted audio drama, written and produced by Kimberly Conway. Higher Grounds contains mature themes and topics that may not be suitable for all audiences. Listener discretion is advised.

Speaker 2:
[00:22] Now, there's someone else who plays a pretty big role in how this story unfolds. His name is Gentry Wilder. Yes, that Gentry Wilder. Former husband of Elle Harrison, member of the band Wilder, multi-platinum recording artist, whose songs were the soundtrack of the 90s and early 2000s. It was Sylvia who put me in contact with him. She gave me his phone number and told me I'd probably want to reach out to him for his take on things. So, that's what I did. Can I speak to Gentry?

Speaker 3:
[01:01] You're doing it.

Speaker 2:
[01:02] Hi, my name is Kat Singleton. I'm a journalist working on a podcast about Higher Grounds.

Speaker 3:
[01:08] Yeah, Sylvia called a few days ago and told me you might be getting in touch. Yeah, I guess I could help you out. What is it that you're looking for?

Speaker 2:
[01:22] I met with Gentry at his estate in Leapers Fork, about 30 minutes outside of Nashville. A sleepy guard waved me through the front gate, barely looking up from his phone. I followed the driveway through acres of rolling pastures that seemed to stretch on for miles. At first glance, the mansion was everything you'd expect, straight out of an episode of MTV Cribs. But, as I walked toward the front door, the illusion started to fade. This place was eerily still. No staff, no signs of life. The landscaping was overgrown. The concrete porch steps had begun to crumble. Paint was peeling from the front door. The home felt like a relic, a reminder that no one escapes the hand of time. Not even rock stars. Hi, Kat Singleton.

Speaker 3:
[02:20] Hey, come on in.

Speaker 2:
[02:23] Inside, it was dark, moody colors, rich fabrics, an old rock star's idea of opulence. We sat down in the parlor on two facing leather sofas. Gentry was cordial during our first meeting, but I got the impression he wasn't happy about the intrusion into his life. This was the first interview he'd given in years, and he told me he'd only agreed to it as a favor to Sylvia. He said she'd called and ask him not to hold anything back when he talked to me. That surprised me. Sylvia had been hesitant about the podcast from the start, but now she was asking Gentry to tell the whole truth? That was puzzling. But maybe the most surprising moment of the afternoon was when Gentry handed me a cardboard box filled with Elle's audiotapes, dozens of them. Elle's voice would have been missing from this project had it not been for Gentry's generosity. In fact, without the window to the past that Gentry provided, this podcast would have turned out very differently. I'm Cat Singleton, and this is Higher Grounds, Episode 6, Good Luck, Be a Lady, 1973 to 1974.

Speaker 3:
[04:25] Even name is Rafael Gentry Dorazio. I changed it to Gentry Wilder when my career started taking off. Anyway, I was born to an Irish Catholic mother. Her name was Helen. My dad, Antonio, was the son of Italian immigrants. I had a pretty all right start in life. When I was seven, both my parents were killed in a car accident. Tangled with an 18-wheeler. That's when I moved to Chicago to live with my uncle Franco and his family. I'm seven years old. I've just lost my parents. And then I get shipped off to this place where everyone acts like I'm something the cat dragged in. It was a real Cinderella sob story there for a while. I never stood a chance in that house. Uncle Franco and his wife Giada had four sons. All of them were older than me, real macho, alpha male types. They called me Cheeks. And you know why they gave me the name Cheeks? Because I was skinny as a toothpick when I was a kid. And Giada would never find pants that could fit me right. So my older cousins got a big kick out of running by and pantsing me. The youngest was Carmine. He was the baby of the family until I came along. Carmine was not a good guy, but every once in a while he'd do little things to help me out. Like he'd give me lunch money so I didn't go hungry when one of his brothers took mine. I idolized the guy. And it wasn't just me. Tony, one of our other cousins, he was about my age, he idolized Carmine too. But neither of us ever quite had his finesse. We just couldn't be as ruthless as he was. Didn't have it in us. My family always gave me hell growing up because I wanted to be a musician. They said music was a pipe dream. Told me I wasn't talented enough and I'd never get anywhere with it. They all wanted me to go into the family business. It wasn't my cup of tea. I don't even drink tea, you understand what I'm saying? So the minute I put on my cap and gown and walked across the stage to get my high school diploma, I struck out on my own, started playing every dive bar and hole-in-the-wall nightclub I could get into, just trying to get my break.

Speaker 4:
[07:28] Charles. I got back from Vietnam in March of 73. Went back home to mama and daddy's, but I didn't stay long. The first chance I got, I drove down to Louisiana to try and talk to Sylvia. I had her address memorized from all the letters we'd written. I found her house and knocked on the door, but some woman I didn't recognize answered. I said, I'm looking for Sylvia LaRonde. She said she didn't know her. I remembered Sylvia telling me she got a job at the grocery store just down the road from my house, so I went down there and asked the owner about her. He said, I fired her years ago. She was robbing me blonde, right under my nose. I said, I don't think we're talking about the same girl. Thanks anyway. He said, there's only one Sylvia LaRonde around here, and everybody knows her. Well, the men do anyway. Is that what you're after? He started saying some real vulgar things about her, and that set me off. I grabbed him by his shirt collar, and I said, if you know what's good for you, you'll keep her name out of your mouth. When I let him go, he stumbled back into a display, and I walked out. I stayed around New Orleans for about two weeks, looking for her, asking about her. Everyone kept saying she left town, but nobody knew where she went. I just couldn't accept that I'd lost her.

Speaker 3:
[09:29] I got my first record deal in 73. Back then, I was still going by Rafael D'Orazio, so if you're digging around for that album, you gotta look under that name. All the time I was growing up, Carmine and the guys said I'd never get a record deal. So naturally, once I got one, the first thing I had to do was head out to Vegas and tell Carmine the news. A phone call wouldn't do. I wanted to see the shock on his face when I told him. I was flat broke at the time. I really couldn't afford to make the trip to Vegas. But I did it anyway. I spent the last of my savings to get there. So, the first night I'm in town, we go out to the Stardust. Carmine's playing cards somewhere in the back. High stakes, too rich for my blood. I ended up playing the penny slots. I mean, I made a meal out of the complimentary bar nuts, so that tells you how broke I was. I won a little bit on the slots, not much, a few bucks, but I figured I better quit while I was ahead. So, I walk over the bar to get a drink, and as I'm walking, I notice this woman sitting at a table by herself. Stops me in my tracks. She was way out of my league, but it was one of those things when you're like, I gotta take the shot, man. I mean, I was sure she'd shoot me down, but you gotta try with a woman like that. So, I walk over to her table, and I remember she had on this red dress, it was split all the way up the side, and it had fallen open, so you could really get a good look at her legs. She had the most incredible legs. I introduced myself, and she told me her name was Marie.

Speaker 5:
[11:44] Who?

Speaker 2:
[11:45] Uh, Rafael D'Orazio.

Speaker 6:
[11:51] Oh, okay. Yeah, that was, uh, that was Carmine's cousin, yeah?

Speaker 2:
[11:57] Yes. What do you remember about him?

Speaker 6:
[12:01] Um, I barely remember him at all. Let me think.

Speaker 3:
[12:09] I sat down at the table, and her glass was almost empty, so I ordered her another drink. I couldn't afford to get us both one, and so I said I didn't want anything. Felt like a teenager all over again, tripping over myself, trying to impress her. When the bartender brought her drink, Sylvia slid it across the table to me and said, I think you need this more than I do. She laughed and touched my knee, and, I mean, it was electric. She kept her hand there, and she said, why are you so nervous?

Speaker 6:
[12:46] That was Gentry? Are you sure?

Speaker 2:
[12:49] Yeah.

Speaker 6:
[12:51] I mean, I knew Gentry was Carmine's cousin, but that guy was so different. I never would have put that together. I wonder why he never told me we met back then.

Speaker 2:
[13:04] I think he was embarrassed. I don't think things went well for him that night.

Speaker 6:
[13:14] I remember now. That was the night I met Carmine.

Speaker 3:
[13:21] I told her about my record deal. I said, you'll be hearing me on the radio real soon. She seemed excited for me. She said, I'll be listening for you. And I told her, I'd like to get to know you a little better. And maybe I could write a song about you.

Speaker 6:
[13:38] I could tell by looking at him he didn't have any money. But he seemed like a nice guy. It was sort of refreshing talking to him. He was different than the men I was used to.

Speaker 3:
[13:50] I'm just starting to get somewhere with her when I see Carmine headed right over for us. And I thought, of course, of course he's gonna come screw this up for me.

Speaker 6:
[14:06] I look up, and walking toward us is this sexy Italian man. He had dark hair, broad shoulders, smoldering brown eyes. I mean, honestly, he was the definition of suave. He was so perfect, you almost had to laugh. And he knew it too. He walks right up to me, offers me his hand and says, Carmine, Dorazio. I introduce myself and he says, Marie, you're the most beautiful woman I've ever seen in my life. Now, okay, Carmine was gorgeous, but I wasn't born yesterday. I knew he was trouble the moment I laid eyes on him. And I wasn't interested in trouble. Carmine nodded toward Gentry and asked me, what are you doing talking to this guy?

Speaker 3:
[15:05] He turned to me and said, hey, Cheeks, you got a little something in your beard. I wiped my face and a piece of bar nut fell out onto the table. My face was burning and I knew it had to be beet red.

Speaker 6:
[15:20] Carmine said, did he tell you he was going to be a big star someday? I wouldn't hold your breath. He's been saying that for years, but you got to have talent to be a star. That's the part that's missing.

Speaker 3:
[15:34] I got up and walked away. I wasn't going to sit there and let him humiliate me. And you couldn't win with Carmine in a situation like that. He always knew just where to cut you. Best thing you could do if you wanted to hold on to your pride was get out of his way.

Speaker 6:
[15:57] He got up and left Carmine and I sitting at the table. Carmine was... he was so smug. I wanted to slap the smirk off his face. I said, was that supposed to impress me?

Speaker 3:
[16:32] I took a cab back to Carmine's place. By the time he got home, I was ready to fight. I had been stewing for hours, getting more and more upset. As soon as he walked in the door, I shoved him into the wall, knocked a painting out of the ground. I got right in his face and I said, why do you always got a screw with me? He didn't even fight back. I think he was shocked. I never came at him like that, but I was so tired of him treating me like garbage. I said, I like that girl, and I think I had a chance with her until you ruined it. He started laughing. He said, you know she's a hooker, right? You think a girl like that would actually want you? She wanted your money. And last I checked, you don't got any. I didn't know she was an escort. He said, look, you want her? Come on, we'll go back down there and I'll buy her for you. Knock yourself out. My treat. I said, man, get out of here.

Speaker 6:
[17:53] The next evening, I was sitting at a table with a different man, an older man. Carmine comes over, leans on the table, looks at me and says, another one? The man stood up and asked Carmine if he had a problem. Carmine pulled him off to the side and talked to him for a few minutes. I could see what was happening, but I couldn't hear what was being said. The man ended up leaving. Carmine came walking back to my table and sat down with that same smug grin on his face. I said, what are you trying to do? He said, I didn't like the looks of that guy. I said, I don't think you're his type either. He laughed, shook his head, and then he said, am I your type? I said, no, actually, you're not. I started to get up, but he caught my arm and said, wait a minute. How about you give me a chance to change your mind? Let me take you on a real date. And I said, I'm really not interested, but thank you. I got to my feet and he stood too. He took my hand and slipped something cool and round in my palm, closed my fingers around it. Then he brought my hand to his lips and kissed it. He said, well, it was a pleasure talking to you, Marie. And then he turned and walked away. By the time I looked down and saw that $1,000 poker chip in my hand, he had already disappeared into the crowd. I thought, I'm not taking this. Whatever strings were attached to that $1,000, I didn't want anything to do with it. I went after him, pushed my way through the crowd. He was at the front door by the time I caught up to him. I grabbed his shoulder and he turned to me and I said, what the hell is this? He said, I messed up your date. The least I can do is pay you for it. I tried to give it back. I told him I didn't want his money. He said, just take it. Take the night off. I asked him, why are you doing this? What's in it for you? He smiled and said, I'll sleep better tonight knowing you don't have some jackass crawling all over you. Seriously, you'd be doing me a big favor if you took it. He turned and headed for the door and I let him go.

Speaker 5:
[20:55] She looked like she was lost in thought. She kept absentmindedly spinning a poker chip on the counter like a top. I finished with my customers and went over to see what was going on, and I said, hey, you doing all right?

Speaker 6:
[21:09] I asked if she knew anything about the man I was just sitting with.

Speaker 5:
[21:14] Carmine?

Speaker 6:
[21:15] Yeah. What do you know about him?

Speaker 5:
[21:17] I said, he's always been nice to me. Great tipper. But where on the street is? He's not someone you want to cross. I've heard he's involved with the mob somehow, but that's just people talking I can't say for sure. Why?

Speaker 6:
[21:32] He wants me to go out with him.

Speaker 5:
[21:34] What did you say?

Speaker 6:
[21:36] I said no.

Speaker 5:
[21:38] I said good. I think it's best to steer clear of him. He seems like bad news. She said, I was thinking the same thing, but something in the way she said it gave me the impression she was considering the idea.

Speaker 6:
[22:04] Carmine and I played this cat and mouse game over the next week or so. Same story, more or less. I'd be with a guy, he'd show up and run him off. He was trying to wear me down, so I'd give in and go out with him. But he was only making me more determined than I never would. He punched a guy at the craps table one night because of big scene. And after that, I steered clear of the stardust. I was just trying to work. Carmind was making that virtually impossible. My connections at the casino were starting to become hesitant to introduce me to the big clients because Carmind was harassing them all. It was just a messy situation. So I decided I needed to lay low for a while. I started making my rounds at different casinos along the strip. I never worked at the same place more than two nights in a row because I didn't want to attract any more unwanted attention. Well, that was hard because so much of my work was about relationships. You know, knowing the right people could connect you to the right clients takes time to build those relationships. And I was moving around so often, I wasn't able to do that. So in turn, I was making a lot less money. I was having to vet all my own clients, which I was pretty good at, but it wasn't foolproof. You got to rely heavily on instinct. I had a really scary encounter with a man I met at the Golden Nugget. He seemed perfectly normal. But when we got to his room, he turned on me. My man had every intention of killing me. He planned it, re-meditated it.

Speaker 5:
[24:47] Sylvia came home and she looked wild. Her hair was a mess. Her dress was torn completely open, and she was holding it together, bleeding in several places. I said, What in the world happened to you? Her whole body was trembling. I grabbed her, and I hugged her, and she kept holding on to me, saying, I think I killed him, Randi, I think I killed him. And I said, Calm down, breathe. Who do you think you killed? She told me she'd been attacked by one of her clients, and that she knocked him out so she could get away. But I didn't know how to help her. I got her into the bathtub. She was good friends with the head of housekeeping at the Golden Nuggets, so she got the room number from Sylvia, and she drove out there to see what she could find out from her friend. I stayed with Sylvia and tried to comfort her the best I could.

Speaker 6:
[25:54] They found a lot of blood in the hotel room. And I was also thinking that man is still out there, and who knows if he's going to come after me again.

Speaker 5:
[26:16] Then Sylvia changed after that night. She got really quiet, just kept to herself. I don't think she left the house for a week, maybe two. I was really worried because that's not Sylvia. Sylvia is bright and effervescent, and when you see someone like her down that low, it's a scary thing. I kept telling her, if you won't talk to me, maybe you should talk to a professional. But you know, not a lot of people were going to therapy in those days. She said, I'll be all right, I just need a little more time. So we tried to give her space, but it was so hard to watch.

Speaker 6:
[27:04] It really messed with my head. I kept replaying it in my mind, you know, trying to figure out what red flags I hadn't missed. Trying to figure out how to make sure I didn't end up in that situation again. And I really couldn't come up with anything. This man was just, he was completely deranged. And I had, I had no idea until I was alone with him in his hotel room. And that terrified me because there was no guarantee it wouldn't happen again. And maybe the next time I wouldn't get away. I think it was two, three weeks before I got the nerve to go out again. I was scared to death. My first night back, I went to the Stardust because that's where I felt safest. I know a lot of the people there. Randi was there. I wasn't worried about Carmine. Part of me sort of hoped he'd come pay me to take the night off anyway. I just didn't want to do it anymore. But I felt like I had to keep working. I didn't have big enough savings to walk away yet. I had been making a lot of money, but I was also spending a lot to maintain that lifestyle. I was buying expensive dresses and accessories. I was in the salon every other day getting my hair and nails done. There was a lot of upkeep. So saving up for my exit wasn't moving as fast as I would have liked.

Speaker 5:
[28:38] Carmine had been hanging around the bar more, asking me about Sylvia when she stopped coming to the Stardust. I never told him where she was, but after the attack, when she was at her lowest point, I told him what happened. I think I told him on the off chance that the mob rumors were true, and he might track the guy down who hurt Sylvia and teach him a lesson. I was so mad, I probably could have done it myself if I had come in contact with him. I never told Sylvia that I had spilled the carmine about the incident, though. I didn't know how she'd feel about that.

Speaker 6:
[29:15] That first night back at the Stardust, I was really struggling. I was sitting at a table in the lounge when the pit boss came over and told me he had someone to introduce me to. I told him to give me a few minutes and I'd be over, but I just kept sitting there, battling with myself. I couldn't get up to go meet that guy. And then Carmine came and sat down beside me. He didn't have that cocky smirk on his face. He seemed entirely different than before. He said, Hey, I've been worried about you. How are you doing? He said Randi had told him what happened to me and he was so sorry to hear it.

Speaker 5:
[30:02] And I don't know.

Speaker 6:
[30:05] Maybe in the beginning I was only sitting there talking to Carmine to avoid getting up and going to work. But I stayed there talking to him because I really, well, I was really enjoying the conversation. He was so different than I thought he'd be. We had so much in common. And he was really funny. And that shocked me too. I don't know how long we sat there talking, but we ended up going out to dinner. And then we saw our show. We ended the night with a few drinks. And when he drove me home, he didn't even try to come inside. He gave me a very sweet kiss. And he sat in the driveway to make sure I got in safely before he left.

Speaker 5:
[30:56] When Sylvia came in after that first night with Carmine, she had this big smile on her face. It was the first time I'd seen her really smile in a long time. It was like we had our Sylvia back. She'll said the same thing. So I thought, you know, I really had Carmine pegged wrong. And I could do that sometimes. I tended to be pretty skeptical about most people until they gave me a reason not to be. But the way he breathed life back into Sylvia, that was reason enough for me to give him a chance.

Speaker 6:
[31:30] I never had to work the casinos again after that first night with Carmine. It was a whirlwind.

Speaker 5:
[32:04] They spent a couple of weeks in Bora Bora, and when they got back, Sylvia came and got her things and told me she was moving in with Carmine. I liked the guy, I understood the appeal, but I thought they were moving too fast. And I told her that, I said, why don't you just give it a little more time? She told me I had nothing to worry about, she went anyway.

Speaker 6:
[32:38] Actually, I don't even, I don't really know if they were related. Seemed like Carmine had a lot of cousins. I got the impression that was what he called a close friend. But anyway, Tony was always around, always popping up at the most inopportune times. Carmine and I would want to have some time alone together, and here comes Tony. We laughed about it, but it was really frustrating at times. So I decided Tony needed a distraction to occupy his time.

Speaker 5:
[33:15] Sylvia said, I got someone I'd like you to meet. I said, no way. You're not pushing your problems off on me. I mean, I wasn't interested in dating anyone at the time. I just ended a relationship that wasn't great, and I wanted to enjoy being single for a while.

Speaker 6:
[33:31] I said, let me just introduce you casually and you can see what you think. I told her he wouldn't even know I wanted to set them up unless she gave him the okay.

Speaker 5:
[33:41] I said, fine. But if I don't like him, you can forget it.

Speaker 6:
[33:47] She liked him.

Speaker 5:
[33:50] He was cute and really sweet. He seemed like a nice guy. So I agreed to go on a double date.

Speaker 6:
[33:59] I really hadn't expected things to go as well as they did. The four of us were always going out together, having a great time. When Carmine and I wanted to be alone, we were able to do that without interruption.

Speaker 5:
[34:15] The four of us went out to dinner one night. I can't remember the name of the place, but it was ridiculously expensive and Carmine paid for everyone. He said it was a special occasion. Just before the waiter brought dessert, Carmine got down on one knee and proposed to Sylvia. It was the biggest diamond I've ever seen in my life. And the expression on Sylvia's face was complete shock. And maybe a slight hesitation. I couldn't quite put my finger on it.

Speaker 6:
[34:47] I said, yes, of course I'll marry you. As he slipped the ring on my finger, all I could think about was Charles.

Speaker 1:
[35:30] Higher Grounds is a Yellowbird Media production, written and produced by Kimberly Conway. Sylvia is voiced by Laura Jane Jones. Randi by Stacey Lightman. Gentry by Robert Fleet. Charles by Gervais Weeks. Kat by Kimberly Conway. Opening and Closing Narration by Rachanee Lumayno. Sound Design and Mixing by Yellowbird Media. Mixing and Mastering by Rick Such. The theme song, Everything Changes, by Laura Jane Jones, is available now on Apple Music and Spotify. Shows like Higher Grounds are made possible by the support of listeners like you. If you've enjoyed the show, we'd be so grateful if you could take a moment to rate and review us on your favorite podcast platform. Stay connected with Higher Grounds and be the first to know about upcoming YellaBird productions by following us on social media and signing up for our newsletter at www.yellabird.com. Higher Grounds is a work of fiction. Names, characters, places and incidents are either the product of the author's imagination or used fictitiously. Any resemblance to actual persons, living or dead, events or locales is purely coincidental. This podcast is intended for entertainment purposes only.