transcript
Speaker 1:
[00:03] After Laura was barred from speaking with Clayton, she became hyperactive online. She began repeatedly reaching out to online content creators like Dave Neal to refute their claims. Around this time, Dave got an interesting email from a Howard University student.
Speaker 2:
[00:22] It is basically a press release that is titled Unpacking Racial Insensitivity by somebody named Chase J. Jones. This whole unpacking of racial insensitivity is Clayton dancing on TikTok to a song where the song had the n-word.
Speaker 1:
[00:38] It seemed like Clayton couldn't catch a break. Dave tried to reach out to Chase J. Jones to talk on the phone.
Speaker 2:
[00:44] Crickets. I hear nothing. I'm going, you know I can't report this story if I can't even confirm who this person is.
Speaker 1:
[00:52] But Chase kept following up, asking Dave to cover the story. The fact that Chase wouldn't get on the phone raised alarm bells for Dave. He and his audience began to suspect that maybe Chase J. Jones didn't exist at all.
Speaker 2:
[01:08] Chase J. Jones became the most interesting, like Loch Ness monster, a bigfoot, if you will, a mystery.
Speaker 1:
[01:16] Dave started to wonder if the Howard University student emailing him was actually who he said he was. I'm Stephanie Young, and this is Love Trapped. On November 2nd, 2023, a judge granted Clayton Echard an injunction against harassment. You heard those proceedings on the last episode. That meant Laura was legally prohibited from speaking to Clayton. For Clayton, the legal barrier worked. The messages finally stopped. But the silence was an illusion. Laura had found a new focus.
Speaker 3:
[02:20] Laura then started harassing journalists who were telling this story.
Speaker 2:
[02:25] She contacted me within the first video or two where I started to doubt her story.
Speaker 4:
[02:30] I'm sending you this email because I'm required to give you 30 days to retract your false statements before I sue for defamation.
Speaker 5:
[02:37] She reports my video and it gets taken down.
Speaker 1:
[02:41] By filing to establish paternity in the courts and by going to the tabloids, Laura had opened the door to public commentary. After her restraining order hearing was live streamed, everyone online knew her name. She couldn't hide. Clips from the hearings were going viral. Dave Neal started getting more frequent emails from Laura. She was not happy.
Speaker 2:
[03:05] It's hard to explain to somebody how the hairs on your neck immediately go up when you see you get an email from Laura Owens.
Speaker 1:
[03:12] Dave had been covering Laura and Clayton's story nearly every day since it first broke. His audience were the ones who first discovered her name and inconsistencies in the evidence she provided. Dave became a lightning rod, a target of Laura's rage.
Speaker 2:
[03:27] I was threatened nearly immediately by Laura that she was going to sue the hell out of me if I cover this.
Speaker 1:
[03:34] Laura might have seen Dave as the instigator of the doubt and criticism she was experiencing. But the truth was, the story had taken on a life of its own. It basically took over the Bachelor Reddit, so much so that a new sub was established, r slash Laura Owens.
Speaker 5:
[03:53] This one was dedicated to Laura Owens and things we found out about her and about her past.
Speaker 1:
[04:00] This is a woman who goes by the online username, schnitzelninja.
Speaker 5:
[04:05] Thought it sounded funny and never really anticipated it was going to be as popular as it is.
Speaker 1:
[04:13] She's not a content creator. She's a mom with a job that has nothing to do with being online. And she's a casual fan of The Bachelor. Back in 2023, she had a habit of scrolling through Bachelor News.
Speaker 5:
[04:26] I was very much like a lurker online. Until that r Laura Owens sub was created, and that's when I really started interacting. We're all doing all of this research on her, but like there's always another thing to uncover. There's always another thing we found.
Speaker 1:
[04:44] She got sucked into the story, and I can relate. Today schnitzel ninja is a central figure in the online community. We're not going to use her real name.
Speaker 5:
[04:54] Because of Laura, she's intimidating and doesn't shy away from threats.
Speaker 1:
[05:00] Schnitzel Ninja stumbled into the story by accident. In September 2023, she was browsing the Bachelor Reddit when she came across Laura's post, the one where Laura said she was the anonymous woman in the Clayton Echard paternity scandal. She believed Laura because who would lie about something like that?
Speaker 5:
[05:21] I remember commenting on the post something like, I'm really sorry this is happening to you. I really hope Clayton steps up and gives you the support. You're looking for. I was just taking it at face value and it sounded like it could be legit.
Speaker 1:
[05:38] She later deleted that comment.
Speaker 5:
[05:40] It quickly became clear to me at least that Laura was like maybe lying about some things, and so I decided to start doing some research.
Speaker 1:
[05:52] At the time, Laura herself was active on Reddit, posting comments like this one, which will be read by a voice actor.
Speaker 6:
[05:59] I don't have any desire for Clayton to co-parent anymore. I want full custody. I have very clearly stated I do not want a relationship with Clayton.
Speaker 1:
[06:09] The replies were brutal, some were downright cruel, and a few crossed the line.
Speaker 7:
[06:16] You just did this for attention and to distract from the paternity result showing no baby. You need to stop abusing the legal system and get help.
Speaker 3:
[06:26] First, you try to baby trap him.
Speaker 8:
[06:28] Now it's his fault he got too stoned to consent.
Speaker 3:
[06:31] If he was too stoned to consent, why did you give him a blowjob?
Speaker 1:
[06:37] Laura was clapping back in the comments. Here are some of her replies.
Speaker 6:
[06:42] You're wrong. Thanks for the sarcasm though. He gave me a gummy when I got to his house, which he would admit, so not sure how that would make me baby trapping him. We consensually did stuff when we were both under the influence.
Speaker 1:
[06:56] Eventually, someone reported the subreddit, and it was banned. Users like schnitzelninja were still active on YouTube, but Laura began reporting YouTube videos and sending threats of legal action to the people who posted them.
Speaker 5:
[07:10] Laura was reporting people's videos, reporting this, reporting that, trying to have this removed from the internet.
Speaker 1:
[07:16] The thing is, Laura's case was in the public record. She couldn't stop people from commenting about it, and sharing their opinion. But she had an incentive to try. Here's Dave Neal.
Speaker 2:
[07:27] If she could keep people from being able to share these documents, she could keep her lie up.
Speaker 1:
[07:33] At this point, citizen flus like Schnitzel Ninja were personally invested in exposing the truth. From her perspective, Laura was repeatedly misusing public funds, like the police and court system.
Speaker 5:
[07:46] It's a public court hearing, and I was just like, don't do it if you don't want it on the internet.
Speaker 1:
[07:53] So she requested a physical copy of Clayton's injunction against harassment hearing.
Speaker 5:
[07:58] I found out you could request these videos. I enlisted my husband and kind of had to tell him I was following this crazy case online.
Speaker 1:
[08:08] The DVD arrived in the mail a few weeks later. Schnitzel Ninja posted the video on YouTube. Someone reported the video, making a privacy complaint. According to YouTube policy, only two people would have been able to file that complaint, Laura or Clayton. And Clayton says it wasn't him. But Schnitzel Ninja was able to repost the video, since the hearing was a matter of public record.
Speaker 5:
[08:32] So that's how it got started.
Speaker 1:
[08:34] For Schnitzel Ninja and dozens of others, following the story became like a full-time job. Laura was extremely upset about what people online were saying about her. She saw Dave Neal as kind of a ringleader. At this point, he'd received dozens of personal emails from Laura, including a cease and desist and an attempt to get a restraining order. Dave had never experienced anything like this before.
Speaker 2:
[09:00] I was stuck. I was, for better or for worse, bonded to this lady in a way that I became the bad guy to her. And by the way, I'm not trying to convince anybody. Go out there, get on Google, come back to me. I'll see you in a couple of days.
Speaker 1:
[09:15] Dave's full-time job was covering Bachelor and pop culture news.
Speaker 2:
[09:19] Once Laura began singling him out, I was like, you came into my business. Like, I do this for a living. Buckle up. We will make as many videos as it takes to get this thing right. Justice doesn't always play out unless the public demands it.
Speaker 1:
[09:38] Laura sent a threatening email to a group of podcasters saying, If you decide to cover the story with just Dave's point of view, my intent is to sue for defamation. Laura also said in this email that she would be extremely appreciative if you would not cover this topic at all, and that if you do, you allow me to give my side of the story. Here's the thing. Numerous podcasters and creators have told me they gave her the opportunity to come on their shows, and she declined every single time. At the time I'm recording this, she has not agreed to an interview with me either. Here's Dave's perspective on why she refused to talk on the record with people who were questioning her.
Speaker 2:
[10:21] She wanted a story out of it, but she didn't want to deal with the ramifications of being cross-examined.
Speaker 1:
[10:27] Because Laura was reporting so many videos on YouTube, Dave Neal moved the bulk of his conversation about Laura to Patreon. It's a private community and subscription-based platform for creators, and it felt like a safer place to talk about Laura, because she was so litigious.
Speaker 2:
[10:43] People wanted to be in there, in like a sort of safe space, in a private community to discuss this.
Speaker 1:
[10:51] That's when Dave started getting those emails we mentioned at the start of this episode. The ones from Chase J. Jones. Clayton got wind of it.
Speaker 9:
[10:59] Apparently, the Black University student that was upset that I posted a dance video that had the N word in it, but I didn't sing it. He had reached out to like Dave Neal and a couple other outlets.
Speaker 1:
[11:13] Back in 2023, there was a viral TikTok trend where people would dance to a catchy song and add these animated penguins, making it look like they were doing a choreographed dance with them.
Speaker 9:
[11:25] I post on TikTok, I was dancing with these like penguins.
Speaker 1:
[11:29] Clayton didn't sing the lyrics. The song just played in the background while he danced.
Speaker 9:
[11:34] I didn't say it, and I danced to a lot of rap songs, so yeah.
Speaker 1:
[11:40] To Dave, the video Chase J. Jones was pointing out seemed like a nothing burger.
Speaker 2:
[11:47] So I decide not to report on it. I said, I'm not going to report on this press release that's clearly trying to slam Clayton for something that's kind of a little bit of a push.
Speaker 1:
[11:59] Chase had also posted a blog about this on Medium. A few days later, Dave got another email from Chase, explaining why he should be covering this story. Dave decided to Google Chase's name.
Speaker 2:
[12:12] So we look into Chase J. Jones, they've got like a bio on Medium and on YouTube, and they say they went to Howard, which is a historical college.
Speaker 1:
[12:20] Dave wanted to verify that Chase was who he said he was. So he replied to the email and asked Chase to jump on a call.
Speaker 2:
[12:31] Crickets, I hear nothing. I'm going, you know, I can't report this story if I can't even confirm who this person is.
Speaker 1:
[12:39] Several days later, Dave got another email, but this time it was from Patreon, the private online community for his audience.
Speaker 2:
[12:48] Chase J. Jones became a $5 member. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1:
[12:52] Dave started talking to his audience about the emails he'd received from Chase J. Jones, and they developed a theory. What if Chase was actually Laura pretending to be a Howard University student?
Speaker 2:
[13:05] Everyone's fascinated about Chase J. Jones because if it's possible that Laura is faking a black man, this is insanity. I mean, it's absolute insanity.
Speaker 1:
[13:20] At the time, Laura had already taken legal action against Dave. So he had an active court case and the ability to subpoena Chase J. Jones. And that's exactly what he did.
Speaker 2:
[13:31] Chase J. Jones tries to quash the subpoena, which means they went through the California legal system to try to quash the subpoena. And all my lawyer was saying is, just get on the phone with us. Just confirm your identity and this all goes away. So we pursued Chase J. Jones as far as we legally could, knowing there was no one on the end of the phone call.
Speaker 1:
[13:53] Dave was having a hard time proving that this might be Laura.
Speaker 2:
[13:57] Until one night, I have some audience members who cracked the case.
Speaker 1:
[14:03] When Chase emailed Dave, he included the video of Clayton dancing with the penguins.
Speaker 2:
[14:08] Chase J. Jones ripped that from Clayton's TikTok and put it on YouTube, probably so Clayton wouldn't delete it. Well, whoops, I know a little thing about YouTube. It's owned by Google. And when you have a password for YouTube, there is that two factor authentication.
Speaker 1:
[14:22] That means if you were to try to enter the password, it would send you a password code if you type in the last four digits of the account holder's cell phone number. Dave Neal had Laura's number because she'd been contacting him for months.
Speaker 2:
[14:37] Well, believe it or not, if you type in Laura Owens' last four digits of her cell phone number and try to do two factor authentication, what pops up on Chase J. Jones' YouTube channel is it says, we've sent the code to this cell phone number. If you try any other number, we tried hundreds. If you tried any other cell phone number, it says wrong code.
Speaker 1:
[15:04] On his own show, Dave created a video linking Laura to the phone number used to establish the Chase J. Jones YouTube account. Dave believes Laura fabricated this persona, a black journalism student to try to cancel Clayton Echard. Laura appeared consumed by a singular relentless ambition, the total dismantling of Clayton's reputation. She was also trying to convince the public that she was the victim in this case. According to Laura, people like Dave Neal were cyberbullying her. In December 2023, Laura posted this video on her Facebook. And just a forewarning, it's a rough listen.
Speaker 10:
[15:46] Dave has made more than 50 videos and or like podcast content that I could possibly count talking about me. He specializes in bachelor content, but what he's talking about has nothing to do with the bachelor.
Speaker 1:
[16:04] She sounds like she's crying. But when you watch the video, you can see that there are no tears coming out of her eyes.
Speaker 10:
[16:12] Dave, I've begged him to stop talking about me. I've threatened him with defamation lawsuits. Nothing stops him. And he keeps teasing that he's going to talk about another event where it gets crazier, as he says.
Speaker 1:
[16:33] Around this time, Laura made another police report.
Speaker 8:
[16:36] I got there, police. How can I help you? Can I report a violation of a protective order? Is the person on premise right now? No. Okay. And then how was the order violated? So it was violated online. The person's not supposed to try to find my location, and they reached out to somebody I'd been dating and posted a lot of false information about me online.
Speaker 1:
[17:07] You probably assume she's talking about Clayton, or maybe even Dave Neal. But she's not. Two years before Laura Owens met Clayton Echard, she was swiping through dating apps. That's where she met a 35-year-old Scottsdale man named Gregg Gillespie.
Speaker 11:
[17:47] According to court documents, Gregg and Laura met on a dating app, and I think they were hanging out for a few days, not more than a week.
Speaker 1:
[17:55] That's attorney Gregg Woodnick. We're calling him by his last name Woodnick to avoid confusion. Woodnick's been practicing law in Arizona for 25 years. His law firm represented Clayton. But if you recall, when Clayton first approached him, Woodnick was hesitant to take on another case involving Laura Owens.
Speaker 11:
[18:14] I was remembering what had happened with Gregg. I was remembering what I had learned at that point, and I didn't really want to get involved with her again.
Speaker 1:
[18:28] We're going to take a detour to tell you about Gregg Gillespie. What you're about to hear will sound very similar to Clayton's story. But it happened two years prior.
Speaker 11:
[18:41] Gregg was not a celebrity. Gregg was just a regular commercial lighting sales guy.
Speaker 1:
[18:48] Gregg himself isn't ready to share his story publicly. I spoke with him late last year. And he told me he won't be willing to talk until Laura is behind bars. I understand his concerns. And I think you will too, after you hear his story.
Speaker 11:
[19:05] I remember thinking during Gregg's case that this would eventually be a lifetime television movie because it was so bizarre. What we didn't know is kind of astounding. I mean, we knew half of one percent of the story back then.
Speaker 1:
[19:21] For now, we'll be telling Gregg's story by relying on public records, and his lawyer Woodnick, who worked on the case for years.
Speaker 11:
[19:29] He said that after Gregg met Laura on a dating app, they had hung out just a few times, and Gregg knew really quickly that he was not interested in pursuing a relationship with Laura.
Speaker 1:
[19:41] The court documents state the two had a first date, which Gregg described as a fairly normal experience. The next day, they went on a second date. Then, Laura went back to Gregg's place, and they had sex.
Speaker 11:
[19:54] My understanding was that the sexual intercourse that they had was safer.
Speaker 1:
[20:01] By safer, he means that Laura told Gregg she was on birth control. They also used a condom. This next bit is graphic, but relevant. The court documents state that when they had sex, Gregg pulled the condom off and ejaculated on Laura's back.
Speaker 11:
[20:19] I wasn't there. But I read the investigative report. Gregg went to grab a towel, which he said only took a few seconds, apparently in the bathroom. And when he got back, Laura was clean and said she'd already taken care of it. Gregg thought it was strange.
Speaker 1:
[20:36] He ended up hanging out with her one more time. But shortly after that, he met up with her to tell her that he wasn't interested in continuing a relationship. The whole fling only lasted a couple of days.
Speaker 11:
[20:49] It was like a short term fling thing. It certainly wasn't a relationship.
Speaker 1:
[20:53] This is where the story begins to sound eerily similar to Clayton's experience. After Gregg told Laura he wasn't interested in her, she started texting him excessively. He told her she didn't stop, he would block her. Then around two weeks after he called it off, Laura sent him a picture of a positive pregnancy test. Unlike Clayton, there was more of a real possibility she could be pregnant, because in this case, there was actually penetrative sex. Woodnick told me that Gregg had no interest in having a child with Laura.
Speaker 11:
[21:31] Laura said she would have an abortion if they could date long term and eventually have children together the right way. Sound familiar?
Speaker 1:
[21:44] It's almost the exact same playbook she used with Clayton. But Gregg's story has a few key differences. And they're disturbing. Just a warning to listeners here, we're going to recount Laura's story of taking abortion pills. According to court documents, Laura obtained abortion pills from a telehealth clinic on July 21st. They sent her detailed instructions on how to take the pills. It's a two step process. You swallow the first pill and then six to 48 hours later, you take the second dose. That second dose is supposed to absorb vaginally or between your gums and cheek.
Speaker 11:
[22:26] My recollection is that Laura claimed she took the first dose on July 28th and the second dose the next day, July 29th. But then there was a text, I remember, to her telehealth provider. It was always telehealth, indicating that she didn't take the second dose correctly or something like that.
Speaker 1:
[22:45] In records with her telehealth doctor, Laura seemed confused about when and how to take the second dose. She says she waited a few days to take it, but finally did. Then, Laura claimed she saw a doctor, who said the development of the fetus may have stopped, but it was still uncertain. There aren't any public records of this doctor visit. That claim raised alarm bells for Woodnick.
Speaker 11:
[23:11] It seemed absolutely ridiculous at the time, and internally, in my office, remember, this was just dealing with this particular situation, it seemed totally bullshit. But in hindsight, when you look back at these dates and the timelines that are kind of time stamped there, it's even more incredible. It's weird what we didn't know. And now looking back, how bizarre that data set actually was.
Speaker 1:
[23:35] The text messages between Laura and Gregg about this topic became heated and emotionally charged. Here are some of Laura's texts read by a voice actor.
Speaker 6:
[23:45] I don't want a child on my own. It probably sounds crazy considering only four dates together, but I can see us having a kid in a few years. I felt something so special with you. I am the one taking the pills, not you. So I have made the final decision. Wow, I chose you, not the kid. I'm not changing my mind. I want to get this done and have a great and normal relationship and encourage each other to crush it at work, not fight on the phone.
Speaker 1:
[24:15] Then on August 6th, 2021, Laura sends Gregg an ultrasound, along with an absolute bombshell. We obtained a copy of this message from a court document.
Speaker 6:
[24:27] Looks like you're going to be a dad to one or two babies. Was sick enough to go to the clinic this afternoon and had to get an ultrasound to make sure I wasn't having an ectopic pregnancy. I wasn't.
Speaker 1:
[24:40] She sent this message after she told Gregg she took the abortion pills.
Speaker 6:
[24:44] I found out that I've been pregnant with twins. Looks like one of them passed or isn't doing well, probably because of the medicine I took. I had the option of a surgical abortion and elected not to.
Speaker 11:
[24:59] This is when we started to realize that things were really off the rails. Her claims baffled really basic concepts of science and biology.
Speaker 6:
[25:10] If I'm going through this on my own, I will let God decide if he wants both, one or none to be born. And the kid or kids would deserve to know their father's side of the family. I'm giving you one more shot to admit you are overwhelmed and panicked. Otherwise, you're not getting any input going forward. Your behavior is appalling, coercing me to get an abortion for your own personal agenda. And I will escalate this if I don't hear back from you.
Speaker 1:
[25:41] Again, what Gregg experienced is strikingly similar to Clayton's story. Down to the specific language in Laura's messages.
Speaker 11:
[25:49] She has a tendency to have conditions and expectations that aren't normal in regular communication. If you don't respond to me by tomorrow, I will assume the answer is yes. If you don't X, then I will assume Y and proceed that way.
Speaker 1:
[26:07] Laura's text to Gregg continued.
Speaker 6:
[26:09] I talked to a lawyer who told me I can have a court order to establish paternity at eight weeks and get child support from that point on, which is 25 percent of your income, even if you're making less than me.
Speaker 11:
[26:22] Stephanie, I've been a lawyer for 25 plus years. I'm a former adjunct law professor. I taught family law trial skills. That's not the law in Arizona.
Speaker 6:
[26:34] You would not get custody given all you have written about aborting the pregnancy. If you also had manipulated me to take abortion pills that resulted in the deformity or death of the second fetus, I would also pursue any and all legal action for that. If you're going to stick with manipulation, lies and ghosting, you are not who I thought you were and would deserve it.
Speaker 11:
[26:58] Laura said some unbelievably bizarre things and had some very interesting legal theories. I have no idea what she's talking about.
Speaker 1:
[27:07] One of those claims was abortion coercion. This will come back again later.
Speaker 11:
[27:11] I had never even heard of abortion coercion until she put it in writing and sent it to Gregg. But the claim that if Gregg caused one of her pregnancies to be deformed, that it was somehow his fault, is probably legally flawed. You should probably talk to a civil attorney about that. But also, it's missing a condition predescent. The condition predescent being being pregnant.
Speaker 1:
[27:38] Like with Clayton, Laura's texts to Gregg oscillate between claims of abuse and bids to rekindle the relationship. Laura's text is read by a voice actor.
Speaker 6:
[27:48] I still want to believe that you were the guy who wanted a fresh start with me. I told you early on that you didn't need to be with me and that I would make the decision on my own with my own timeline. But you insisted that you wanted to be with me and do this the right way in the future, which I believed. This is your last chance to show me that you weren't coercing me to have an abortion under false pretenses.
Speaker 1:
[28:16] I can't speak for Gregg, but I'd imagine anyone receiving that text message would be in total shock. Woodnick remembers being baffled by Laura's mixed messages.
Speaker 11:
[28:27] My recollection was that she relayed that she was pregnant, and then the story eventually morphed into it was twins, and then it eventually morphed into here is the ultrasound.
Speaker 1:
[28:37] Gregg decided to do a quick reverse image search on the ultrasound, and he got a hit. The image Laura sent him appeared to be from a 2015 blog post, a blog completely unrelated to Laura Owens. Gregg felt like this was proof that she was lying about the pregnancy. So, he called Laura. In Arizona, you can record one side of a conversation and share it if it's a matter of public interest. I want to play you some of that real phone call between Gregg Gillespie and Laura Owens.
Speaker 12:
[29:11] So, your pills didn't work.
Speaker 1:
[29:13] I didn't say my pills didn't work.
Speaker 8:
[29:15] I got an ultrasound today.
Speaker 7:
[29:17] I know, but they didn't work.
Speaker 10:
[29:19] Did you not see that the other thing is like the tiniest thing you've ever seen?
Speaker 8:
[29:22] It clearly stopped the growth in that.
Speaker 13:
[29:26] Wait, what thing? That's not a child.
Speaker 9:
[29:28] There's no twins in this picture.
Speaker 8:
[29:31] Yeah, there are. Do you want me to zoom in on it for you?
Speaker 13:
[29:36] Yeah, I don't know. There's no twins in this photo.
Speaker 8:
[29:39] Yeah, there is.
Speaker 13:
[29:42] Where? No, I know how to read ultrasounds. This is a single baby.
Speaker 8:
[29:47] You know how to read ultrasounds?
Speaker 13:
[29:48] Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[29:50] Gregg confronted her with the blog post he'd found. To him, it seemed obvious that Laura had taken a screenshot of this image and photoshopped it. He got heated.
Speaker 13:
[30:00] Why didn't you answer the question about the photo online?
Speaker 3:
[30:04] I did. What did you want me to say?
Speaker 13:
[30:05] Why is it your photo?
Speaker 8:
[30:08] It's not my photo.
Speaker 13:
[30:09] Wait, didn't you find it peculiar how similar it looks?
Speaker 8:
[30:14] No, I don't find anything peculiar with an ultrasound photo. They all look the same.
Speaker 2:
[30:20] They do?
Speaker 8:
[30:21] All ultrasounds look virtually the same. I don't find anything weird with that.
Speaker 1:
[30:27] It's not true that all ultrasounds look the same. Gregg sent the two images to his attorney, Woodnick, who asked Inobi GYN to review them.
Speaker 11:
[30:36] And he goes, they're the same image. And that's all I needed at that point. I felt pretty confident that the images that Gregg received were fake.
Speaker 1:
[30:45] Gregg blocked Laura across every platform, phone, email and social media. But according to court filings, Laura wouldn't stop. She allegedly used apps to generate new numbers to reach him. On August 11th, she took it a step further and filed a civil lawsuit against Gregg. She was seeking $45,000 in damages. This is the point in the story where Gregg retained Woodnick.
Speaker 11:
[31:12] Her big allegation was that he coerced her to having an abortion. And that was the nexus of the civil lawsuit she filed.
Speaker 1:
[31:22] I asked him to give me a legal definition of abortion coercion.
Speaker 11:
[31:26] I think it means someone forcing a woman to make a choice with their body that is not their choice. So I think it means that she was claiming that Gregg made her terminate the pregnancy. I've been a practicing lawyer at that point for well over 20 years. I never even heard of this.
Speaker 1:
[31:46] Woodnick manages a family and criminal law practice in Phoenix. I asked around and he's sort of a go-to for cases involving complex child custody, child abuse and neglect. While paternity cases are common, cases like Laura's are not. At first, Woodnick wasn't sure if he wanted to take on Gregg's case. He and his firm regularly provide pro-bono work for Planned Parenthood.
Speaker 11:
[32:13] I'm very proud of the work that I've done and the commitment my office has to Planned Parenthood. And I truly believe all healthcare decisions regarding a woman and their pregnancy are theirs to make.
Speaker 1:
[32:25] But Woodnick took the time to read over Gregg's documents. Immediately, Laura's messages stood out to him.
Speaker 11:
[32:32] I saw the communication related to it, and it was bafflingly bizarre. A lot of transactional, negotiated communications. It's the kind of thing where Laura would send text after text after text, and Gregg wouldn't respond. She would send e-mails like, I'm having the baby if you don't call me. That's weird.
Speaker 1:
[32:55] The day after Laura filed the civil lawsuit against Gregg, he filed for an order of protection against her. I got a copy of Gregg's filing. It paints a clear and unsettling picture of what he was going through. Here's what he told the courts, read by a voice actor.
Speaker 13:
[33:14] She continued to harass me via text messages through 14 different email accounts and iMessages, all of which I've since blocked. She threatened to reach out to my family, located them on public records, reached out to my mother, threatened to expose me on her self-help podcast. Laura Owens has shown up to my home two times after being asked not to come there. She now is reaching out, making threats of lawsuits to my work email address. She's contacted the HR department in my company to confirm my email address and is threatening my career and reputation at my place of work as of yesterday and today. She is showing no sign of stopping. The defendant is stating that she is in love with me. After three dates, roughly two hours each date, and is promising to have an abortion and dismiss pressing charges if I commit to loving her, marrying her, and starting a family with her within the next two years. I'm scared for my reputation and safety, and it's time to serve her a legal order of protection.
Speaker 1:
[34:32] The judge granted Gregg's order of protection ex parte, which means it gets issued right away without the other person being heard. But in Arizona, a protective order isn't effective until it's been served. Authorities tried to serve Laura and failed each time. All the while, Laura kept flooding Gregg's inbox with lengthy emails, and she was escalating her claims against him. Some of the messages she sent to Gregg were later included in a Maricopa County investigative report. We've had them read by a voice actor.
Speaker 6:
[35:05] I have been advised to file criminal charges against you for fraud, where I can easily establish my case. All I want is what you told me you wanted if I got an abortion, a real, genuine relationship, where even though we have no idea if it works in the end or not, we really try.
Speaker 1:
[35:26] It's emotional whiplash. She was constantly bombarding Gregg with texts and emails.
Speaker 6:
[35:32] I think I have found representation for the case and am waiting to make a decision until or if I hear back from you. My hesitancy in hiring him is that he would want to talk about this to the media because he thinks it would be a landmark case. You weren't the first guy to coerce a girl into an abortion and he thinks there should be legal consequences for men who do that to prevent it from happening. I wanted to ask you one more time if you wanted to date. If that were the case, I would also keep my promise to you and not have the child. I obviously would drop the lawsuit. If I don't get an apology and you don't show that you meant what you said about wanting a relationship with me, I will not be having a surgical abortion and will be filing for punitive damages for $75,000.
Speaker 1:
[36:23] Some of these lines sound exactly like the ones she would later write to Clayton. Woodnick was disturbed by the similarities in the messages.
Speaker 11:
[36:31] I remember when the communications started coming in from Clayton and his dialogue with Laura. And I remember looking at the communications, wondering if they were identical. I mean, it was very eerily similar.
Speaker 1:
[36:45] But there are some features of Gregg's experience that don't quite line up with Clayton's, like this one letter Laura sent Gregg. She told him it was from a lawyer who'd reviewed her case.
Speaker 11:
[36:56] It was a letter on e-mail letterhead from a very reputable lawyer in the San Francisco Bay area.
Speaker 1:
[37:03] Gregg shared it with Woodnick. Here's his recollection of what the letter said.
Speaker 11:
[37:07] Laura, we've reviewed your case. This is the best abortion coercion case we've ever seen and kind of implied that the case was worth a lot and she needed to sue and go after Gregg. Obviously, that caused me to raise my eyebrows. I mean, it caused me to do some research. So, we did some digging into those communications. And when she was attaching letters from her lawyer, I was like, wait a minute, if she's represented by a lawyer, I need to be communicating with the lawyer. So, I did what I would train any associate or what I'm supposed to do ethically. I reached out to the lawyer themselves. And you'll be surprised to find out that they said they were not representing her.
Speaker 1:
[37:49] Woodnick wanted to be clear. He does not believe the lawyer whose name is on this letter is the one who authored it.
Speaker 11:
[37:56] First, he said he didn't represent her. Second, they weren't licensed in Arizona. It was absolutely an Arizona case. And it didn't read like a lawyer wrote it. Certainly not a lawyer with the gravity that the lawyer that she claimed was representing her had. And again, we didn't get this communication from the law firm. So, I'm not blaming them at all. I actually believe they didn't know. I think I alerted them to it.
Speaker 1:
[38:18] Because the protective order could never be successfully served, Laura was legally allowed to continue contacting Gregg. He wasn't responding anymore, but that didn't deter her. She contacted important people in Gregg's life, like his boss. Those messages were later included in that same investigative report we discussed earlier, which is how we got a copy of them. Here's an email she sent his employer, read by a voice actor.
Speaker 6:
[38:45] Hi, I filed a civil lawsuit against a salesman at your Scottsdale location, Gregg Gillespie, and wondered if I could confidentially confirm the dates that he was out on COVID leave in July and August. The illness is unrelated to the case, but my father is going through radiation for cancer right now and is having COVID symptoms. I am helping to care for him and wondered if I may have been asymptomatic after being in close contact with him and then transmitted into my dad. I would really appreciate your not involving him, and if I could just have help in tracing back how he had been exposed, I think it had to be through me. Although at this point, I'm testing negative. Thanks, Laura.
Speaker 1:
[39:29] Laura was about to take it a step further. On November 12th, 2021, Laura filed an order of protection against Gregg Gillespie, citing that he had been hacking her computer, social media, and even her podcast's website.
Speaker 11:
[39:44] Laura claims or applies that Gregg is some sort of master IT hacker. I don't know where the hell she's getting that from, Stephanie. There's nothing that I've ever seen in any document or record that remotely comports with that.
Speaker 1:
[39:57] In her filing, Laura claims that Gregg is a manipulative and dangerous person who has been incessantly harassing her. It reads, quote, he will not stop until he has ruined my life, my podcast, and causes serious mental and or physical harm to me. The same day, a judge heard Laura's protective order case over Zoom.
Speaker 12:
[40:20] I'm going to call Laura Owens and Gregory Gillespie, FN 2021, 004799. Ms. Owens, are you on the line?
Speaker 8:
[40:30] Yes, I am.
Speaker 12:
[40:31] Do you solemnly swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth? So I hope you got it.
Speaker 8:
[40:38] I do, Your Honor.
Speaker 1:
[40:40] The judge seemed to remember Laura.
Speaker 12:
[40:42] You've been in front of me before on this case. These allegations, I remember them.
Speaker 10:
[40:49] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 12:
[40:50] You were the one who's friends with the attorney in California. Yes. Well, all right.
Speaker 1:
[40:59] If the judge's voice sounds familiar to you, it's the same judge you heard in the last episode, granting Laura's order of protection against Clayton. The one about the selfie of Laura that had become a Halloween costume meme. But her hearing against Gregg two years prior was much more serious.
Speaker 12:
[41:19] You say Mr. Gillespie put his hands on your throat. When did that happen?
Speaker 8:
[41:26] That actually happened on our first date.
Speaker 12:
[41:30] All right. And you've already known him since like June or something, right?
Speaker 8:
[41:34] Correct. Okay.
Speaker 12:
[41:37] We had a conversation the other day, and I want to start out by saying that everything that we say on our hearing today is something that will be recorded in Mr. Gillespie and his attorneys can get copies of it. You're aware of that, right?
Speaker 8:
[41:51] Yes.
Speaker 12:
[41:51] Okay. I will grant your order of protection.
Speaker 8:
[41:55] Thank you so much, Your Honor.
Speaker 1:
[41:58] Gregg was served without order of protection three days later. Laura has since renewed the order twice as recently as December of 2024. Gregg has yet to contest it, but he still has the opportunity to contest it in the future and end up back in court with Laura Owens. By December of 2021, Laura's civil case against Gregg was still in the court system, and Woodnick was repeatedly asking about the status of Laura's pregnancy.
Speaker 11:
[42:32] We kind of lost track of the lie of the pregnancy. The story wasn't about a pregnancy, it was about this coercion thing. As soon as she filed this lawsuit claiming abortion coercion, it was almost like the lore of what she was even pregnant kind of was gone. Now we were dealing with whatever she was claiming Gregg had done to her, because now she was a victim, obviously. A victim of a guy who wanted nothing to do with her. A guy who was like, leave me alone. A guy who was like, quit calling my employer. A guy who was like, I don't ever want to see you again.
Speaker 1:
[43:03] After that, Gregg stopped hearing from Laura about the pregnancy. He never saw verified medical records confirming a miscarriage. There are also no birth records, no death certificates, nothing. But that isn't the end of the story. There was one more very serious allegation that Laura levied against Gregg Gillespie. This time, it wasn't just against him. It was against him and his attorney, Gregg Woodnick.
Speaker 11:
[43:36] I was going to answer every fucking question the police or the FBI had, because I had nothing to do with this.
Speaker 1:
[43:51] In 2022, Woodnick was preparing to defend his client, Gregg Gillespie, in a strange case. It was an abortion coercion claim brought by Laura Owens. For Woodnick, the case was already outside of his normal scope of practice. Then, something happened that had never occurred before in Woodnick's 25-year legal career.
Speaker 11:
[44:12] Maybe two or three days before the hearing, I get an e-mail from Judge Bacchus' judicial assistant, and the e-mail is not addressed to me, it is addressed to Laura, and I'm on the CC being copied back. And the e-mail accused Gregg and I of somehow being complicit in Laura's rape.
Speaker 1:
[44:36] When Woodnick first told me about this, I was shaken. After months of reporting on Laura Owens, I thought I had a sense of her pattern of behavior. But this accusation was as serious as it gets. Woodnick is adamant that he never conspired with his client to have Laura raped.
Speaker 11:
[44:57] To see my name associated with it really was troubling. Troubling is probably an understatement. As much as I knew that it was complete fucking bullshit, I mean, I'm not a rapist. Not only was it not true, I had no idea what the hell she was talking about, but it was a little bit frightening because she said it with a pretty good command of vocabulary that the FBI and the police were involved.
Speaker 1:
[45:25] Woodnick found out about Laura's allegation because of an email she sent to the judge in the case. That email is now part of the public record, and we've had it read by a voice actor.
Speaker 6:
[45:35] I hate to email you again, but there is a major issue with the defendant, Mr. Gregory Gillespie and his attorney, Mr. Gregg Woodnick, that needs to be brought to Judge Bacchus' attention privately before she rules on the motion to extend filed by my now former attorney. On March 4th, 2022, I was drugged, violently assaulted, and raped. I have strong reasons to believe that both the defendant and his counsel were involved, and there is a pending FBI investigation regarding the incident. To my knowledge, neither the defendant nor his counsel are aware that they are being looked into. I was worried that submitting a motion ex parte could accidentally be publicly e-filed and accessed by them, which would pose a threat to my safety. I apologize for sending an email, but I could not think of any other way to alert Judge Bacchus about this without giving the other side confidential information about what has transpired.
Speaker 1:
[46:37] While Laura is adamant in her email to the judge, it seems like she never reported this alleged rape to the police. For Woodnick, the accusation was still devastating. It made him even more sure Gregg was telling the truth.
Speaker 11:
[46:53] Listen, I mean, I don't know that in my career that I'm going to meet someone who's got such an interesting relationship with the truth as Laura Owens does. That may never happen again.
Speaker 1:
[47:04] After Woodnick read Laura's accusation, he immediately went into action, assembling a group of his most trusted colleagues.
Speaker 11:
[47:13] I got my team together, and fortunately, I've got seven lawyers in my team, some really experienced, wonderful lawyers who are family to me and work with me.
Speaker 1:
[47:22] One of the people with him was his colleague, Deandra Arena. Here's what Deandra thought of Laura's accusation.
Speaker 14:
[47:29] She has a tendency to throw these random, very concerning red herrings out there to detract or deflect from what maybe is going on at the time. So I think it could have been a tactical move. I think she certainly did not want Gregg Woodnick on this case anymore. I think she certainly did not want to deal with my office anymore. And what better way to do it than make probably the most horrific allegation you can about an individual?
Speaker 1:
[47:59] Deandra saw how the accusation cut deep, professionally and personally.
Speaker 14:
[48:05] It was awful. I mean, this is the most egregious of allegations. Like, I would much rather have my father, brother, any male loved one be accused of murder.
Speaker 1:
[48:18] She helped Woodnick figure out what to do next.
Speaker 14:
[48:21] I think he just went into a more logical mindset of, this is someone who has fabricated a lot, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised by this. And then how do we deal with it?
Speaker 1:
[48:36] Woodnick has a wife and two teenage kids, who were in high school at the time. So after talking with his firm, he called a family meeting.
Speaker 11:
[48:45] And we don't do serious family meetings. We are not a serious family. So I brought the boys in and I sat them down and I said, hey guys, you need to understand that in a case, I was accused of being involved in a woman's rape. I want you guys to know that it's not true. I know you know it's not true. I want you to hear from me that it's not true. But if you come home and the police are here, that I've got it under control. If the police show up, we have a game plan.
Speaker 13:
[49:16] This pisses me off.
Speaker 11:
[49:20] We spent the next two days contacting the local police and the FBI.
Speaker 1:
[49:25] Woodnick wanted to get ahead of it. He had nothing to hide.
Speaker 11:
[49:29] I contacted the FBI, Stephanie. I contacted multiple police departments. Not a soul knew what Laura was even talking about. No one even said, oh yes, there's an open investigation. I mean nothing, they had no idea what I was talking about. I don't even think there was ever a police report involving it because no one has ever contacted me many years later. It was all, in my opinion, a lie. So yeah, this one pisses me off pretty good.
Speaker 12:
[49:57] This one pisses me off pretty good.
Speaker 1:
[50:02] I've spent hundreds of hours researching this case. And honestly, it takes a lot to shock me at this point. But sitting in Woodnick's office, listening to him tell me this story, I actually started to tear up. I believe Woodnick when he says he wasn't involved in any criminal conspiracy to have Laura raped. Even after all these years, Laura's allegation is still an emotional topic. It's deeply personal for him. Woodnick's colleagues urged him to leave Gregg's case and find a replacement. Here's Deandra.
Speaker 14:
[50:40] You have to take a step back and consider, is this worth it anymore? I mean, I went to law school for three years. I put my blood, sweat and tears into this career. And to have someone just so cavalierly throw that out there in an email, like, maybe we need to remove ourselves from this situation because this is a very dangerous person.
Speaker 1:
[51:03] Ultimately, Woodnick stepped away from the case.
Speaker 11:
[51:07] Gregg and I had to have financially part ways at some point. It's just the nature of the beast, but he and I have stayed close. He's a great guy. We ended up handing it off to a dear colleague of mine, a guy I really like, a great lawyer who helped resolve it for Gregg.
Speaker 1:
[51:22] It took years for the abortion coercion case to finally get dismissed. And in the end, nothing came of Laura's rape allegation against Gregg and Woodnick. No charges and no further documentation in the public record. I asked Woodnick if he considers himself another victim of Laura Owens.
Speaker 11:
[51:41] I think people have suggested that I'm a victim in this too. It was never about me being a victim. The victims are these guys. I'm just a lawyer. A lawyer who was doing his job and I think we did a pretty okay job.
Speaker 1:
[51:54] Two years later, Woodnick would read about a former bachelor contestant involved in a bizarre paternity case. Woodnick immediately recognized the pattern. This was Laura Owens. And when Clayton's supporters raised the funds for him to retain counsel, Woodnick would hesitate for just a moment.
Speaker 11:
[52:13] Was I not happy with what Laura said about me? Absolutely. Was that in my head? I'm sure it was somewhere in my head. But it certainly wasn't my dominant thought process.
Speaker 1:
[52:24] To Woodnick, Clayton's case represented something bigger. This was a pattern. And maybe Clayton could be the one to finally bring this to an end.
Speaker 11:
[52:33] The fact that so many people's lives had been attempted to be destroyed by Laura was a big deal. And Clayton, this guy who was already in the spotlight because of his role on The Bachelor, he was kind of the torchbearer to make sure that justice was served.
Speaker 1:
[52:47] That's how Woodnick and DeAndra found themselves back in the courtroom with Laura Owens.
Speaker 11:
[52:54] I was going to make sure I did everything I could do, that my team did everything we could do to make sure we got justice for Clayton.
Speaker 1:
[53:03] Coming up on the next episode of Love Trapped.
Speaker 11:
[53:07] I'm going to remind you again that you're not really supposed to be dishonest in depositions.
Speaker 8:
[53:11] I'm well aware.
Speaker 9:
[53:12] I thought maybe she had actually successfully trapped me by insinuating herself.
Speaker 8:
[53:16] I did not send this ultrasound video.
Speaker 3:
[53:18] This is the greatest programming in the history of YouTube.
Speaker 2:
[53:21] This is why you do it live.
Speaker 3:
[53:23] I've never seen anything like it, ever.
Speaker 9:
[53:26] I need to hold this woman accountable.
Speaker 5:
[53:28] This isn't about her. It's about the people that she's victimized.
Speaker 1:
[53:55] Thank you so much for listening. Please be sure to follow Love Trapped on Apple podcasts, the iHeart radio app, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And please leave us a review. A five-star rating helps others find this show. We're grateful for your support. If you would like to reach out to the Love Trapped team, email us at lovetrappedpod at gmail.com. That's lovetrapped, P-O-D, at gmail.com. Love Trapped is a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group in partnership with iHeart Podcasts. This show was executive produced by Nancy Glass, Andrea Gunning and Ben Federman. Written, produced and hosted by me, Stephanie Young. Our story editor is Monique Laborde. Producer on this episode is Sydney Gladue. Additional production support from Todd Gans. Our production manager is Kristen Malkyrie. For iHeart Podcasts, Allie Perry was our executive producer. Audio editing and mastering by Anna McClain. Additional editing support by Zach Proto and Matt DelVecchio. Thank you to our voice actors in this episode. Leslie Talley, Kristen Malkyrie, Todd Gans and Trey Morgan. This podcast was developed in collaboration with Danny Passman and Leb Abramoff at Crybaby Media. The Love Trapped theme is composed by Oliver Baines. Music library provided by MIBE Music. A special thanks to Carrie Lieberman, Will Pearson, Jessica Kreincheck, Ali Cantor and the entire iHeart podcast team. And for more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.