transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:00] Deepfake Porn didn't come out of nowhere. It was allowed to spread, while governments dragged their feet and tech companies shrugged.

Speaker 2:
[00:07] I'm staring at myself in this video that I know I haven't made.

Speaker 3:
[00:12] This is what it looks like to feel violated.

Speaker 1:
[00:15] This season on Understood. If you follow the trail, who does it lead to?

Speaker 4:
[00:19] These images, they were like hunting me. And the biggest platform was Mr. Deepfakes.

Speaker 1:
[00:23] Understood, Deepfake Porn Empire. Available now on CBC Listen or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 4:
[00:31] This is a CBC Podcast.

Speaker 5:
[00:34] The following episode contains difficult subject matter, including references to suicide. Please take care while listening. It's okay.

Speaker 6:
[00:54] This is my stuff here.

Speaker 1:
[01:04] My door is over there.

Speaker 7:
[01:09] It's dirty.

Speaker 6:
[01:10] Thank you.

Speaker 5:
[01:11] Hello, doggy.

Speaker 6:
[01:17] In here? Should I take my shoes off?

Speaker 8:
[01:22] No, no, no, no problem.

Speaker 5:
[01:25] Okay, here?

Speaker 6:
[01:26] It's good?

Speaker 5:
[01:27] Okay.

Speaker 6:
[01:34] It's okay, it's okay. Thank you very much for meeting me here today, and I just wanted to meet you and talk about Jaclyn. So, whenever you're ready.

Speaker 9:
[01:48] Thank you very much for meeting me here today, and I just wanted to meet you in person and talk about Jaclyn. You're my translator, right?

Speaker 6:
[01:58] No, Spanish.

Speaker 10:
[01:58] In Spanish, okay.

Speaker 5:
[02:03] Costa Rica, tiny, lush, rich in species, but as I found, people can disappear from anywhere. And there are many here who say they heard something or saw something or know something about a Canadian woman who did just that, gone with little trace. I'm David Ridgen and this is the 10th season of Someone Knows Something, the Jaclyn Ferland-Smith Case. Episode 1. Jackie.

Speaker 3:
[02:44] Okay, let's see. I'm the youngest of three girls, and so Jackie is the male sister. Sorry, I'm already... You feel fine, and then you start talking, and all of a sudden it just all comes out. Sorry. All right, let's start again.

Speaker 6:
[03:06] Sure.

Speaker 3:
[03:09] Yeah, we grew up on a farm in Abbotsford out in Mount Lehman.

Speaker 5:
[03:13] I've reached Candace at her home in the Northwestern USA. She and her older sister, Jaclyn, or Jackie, as her family and friends call her, grew up in BC's verdant lower mainland. Jackie disappeared on August 17th, 2021, at the age of 40, and she's never been found.

Speaker 3:
[03:34] Growing up, we would play outside. I remember playing tag and water balloons and jumping on the trampoline. You know, we did all those outside fun things. We all played sports, softball. Jackie ran track, played basketball, competitive sports. Jackie, she's really fast, good runner, and she was really dedicated to that. So she took it seriously and watched what she ate and was always really healthy and just motivated to that.

Speaker 5:
[04:10] Jackie was able to try practicing her healthy lifestyle in this tropical place she chose to move in 2019, several hours away by plane, Costa Rica. What was the first communication you got, or what was the first indication that you got, that there might be something up down there?

Speaker 3:
[04:30] Well, my mom called me and she said that Jackie's missing. And I said, well, what do you mean? You know, like, what does that mean? So my parents went down to Coco and then I went down probably, I think it had been three weeks since she had gone missing was when I was there. And it was sort of just this feeling of, what do we do, you know, especially being a whole different country, different language, totally different system. Like, how do we find somebody here?

Speaker 11:
[05:12] What do we do?

Speaker 3:
[05:13] And how do we help? And you just kind of feel like needle in a haystack. Where do you even start?

Speaker 10:
[05:28] Well, I kept on thinking that it was possible that maybe she was wandering in the jungle somewhere and ended up perishing there. But she wouldn't do that.

Speaker 12:
[05:43] She would never go in the jungle.

Speaker 5:
[05:47] This is the first call of Many I Would Do with Colleen and Gordon Smith, both on the line here from Abbotsford, BC. A farming couple in their mid-60s who raised cattle on a many-acred property. I first came across Jackie's case while preparing for a family trip to Costa Rica, to look at moths, fish, beetles and birds, and try to focus on something that is not SKS. Jackie went missing suddenly, a Canadian in paradise, and had an agonized family separated by borders and language. So after digging into some of what was online about Jackie's disappearance, a mixture of what looked like hope and conspiracy peppered with a bit of factuality, I called and Jackie's parents were interested in me taking a closer look. I asked them about the moment when they first heard that something was up.

Speaker 12:
[06:38] Yeah, I'm just picturing myself on the lawn getting a phone call, and Sebastien, he just said, Jackie, Jackie, you know, went out the night before and didn't come back.

Speaker 5:
[06:50] Sebastien Ferland is Jackie's husband, age 48, from Quebec.

Speaker 12:
[06:55] You know, right away, we wondered, we thought, well, she'd never go out in the dark at night and not take her own car.

Speaker 5:
[07:02] Colleen and Gordon say it took them several days to get down to Playa del Coco.

Speaker 12:
[07:07] We have a farm, so it took us a number of days, like five days, to get things organized. We had a lot of cattle that our friends looked after, and flights were, at that time in August, there was not a lot of flights going there.

Speaker 5:
[07:17] A few days after arriving, they went to see detectives in Santa Cruz, detectives from the OIJ or OIJota, the Costa Rican version of the FBI.

Speaker 12:
[07:29] Yeah. I mean, we got a fair bit of information.

Speaker 5:
[07:32] Information that I'll hopefully be able to look at. Once in Costa Rica, Colleen and Gordon stayed with Sebastien at the home he and Jackie built together, while some of the local volunteer and police searches for her were undertaken. Sebastien Ferland and Jackie were married for a year before moving to Costa Rica in 2019 together. Before, they spent time in different Canadian cities, including Calgary. Sebastien had been a career vehicle technician in the Canadian Armed Forces from 2002 to 2019, and Jackie had trained at Simon Fraser University in kinesiology. Jackie and Sebastien's relationship started in Canada, but it's their time in Costa Rica I want to know more about. A glance online shows many accusations and much innuendo swirling around the case and particularly Sebastien. It's obvious that you look at family first, and Sebastien was with Jackie the night she disappeared from what I understand. I do wonder if he'll speak to me.

Speaker 6:
[08:45] Beautiful star-filled night. I think the moon is a quarter moon there, waning in the northwest of the country, close to the border with Nicaragua.

Speaker 5:
[09:00] I'm just about to go meet with one of the people that knew Jackie. Not a best friend of Jackie's, but somebody who knew Jackie and who communicated with Jackie's husband, Sebastien, in the wake of Jackie's disappearance. And her name is Krista.

Speaker 6:
[09:23] Front, back.

Speaker 5:
[09:26] I'm assuming it's you. Krista was a long-time administrator on the Search for Jaclyn Facebook page, and she agreed to meet me here in Playa del Coco. She's taller and capable looking behind the wheel of her SUV. She's just come from a night out with friends and is wearing a black dress.

Speaker 8:
[09:47] Well, I'm Krista Marshall, and I've been living here in Costa Rica since 2018. We first came here for the quiet. We were both in the military, and upon our release, we were looking for some peace. We had visited Costa Rica a couple times before, and we just knew that this was the place. I actually met Jaclyn on a couple of boat trips. I didn't remember her from the first one, but she remembered me. And then we ended up talking on the second one. And yeah, I thought she was very nice, very quiet girl, but super nice. She added me on Facebook, and then there was a new vegetarian vendor at the local market, so I had sent her a picture of their menu, and I had tried one of their items, and I let her know it was really good. But we never ended up hanging out one on one.

Speaker 6:
[10:54] So this is going up the hill to where their place is, right? This is... Yeah, okay.

Speaker 5:
[11:00] It is very dark here at night.

Speaker 11:
[11:02] Right.

Speaker 5:
[11:04] It is very dark. A two-track asphalt road trailing off into nothing, with fields and trees on both sides. Not a lot of other cars at this time, around 8 p.m. I'd describe it as a foothill or terrace above the main town of Cocoa Below.

Speaker 6:
[11:22] There's no street lights on this particular road, which I think is leading to their house, or to the house that Sebastien and Jackie build.

Speaker 11:
[11:30] Yes.

Speaker 8:
[11:36] See, there's a little guard house here, and I don't know if there's anybody in it right now.

Speaker 10:
[11:42] Maybe.

Speaker 8:
[11:43] But I'm gonna just park right here. There's people parked here all the time, so it should be very quiet.

Speaker 5:
[11:59] Krista pulls over onto the side of the road far enough to be out of the way next to a small concrete building she calls a guard house. Nobody appears to be in it right now, and there's no gate or turnpike, but I've heard that guards who were working at this very place might have seen something on the day Jackie disappeared, and I need to find them and speak to them in Spanish. It's pitch black, but for a sodium light nearby that bathes us in a lurid tone, with insects providing what I find to be a life-affirming chorus in the background. So the area that Jackie lived, can you just describe the area?

Speaker 6:
[12:39] What's it like? Is it a new development? And how far from town is it?

Speaker 8:
[12:43] So it's a little remote, like it's on the mountain in between Playa del Coco and Playa Hermosa, and there's a couple of different ways to get there. There's the main route, and then there's a back road that goes up Cacique Hill to the Cacique development. There's some beautiful houses, it's pretty open, you don't see a lot of fences. There's quite a bit of building going on right now, but in 2021, a lot of these houses that are built now weren't up here.

Speaker 5:
[13:19] Jackie and Sebastien lived in a condo for a while in Coco, but then, according to Gordon, they tired of the condo life, and it was too busy with all the renters coming and going, and they wanted more space. So in 2020, they began construction of this new place, a house in the Cacique development.

Speaker 6:
[13:37] Okay. Okay, so if we can just go by the house and see if Sebastien's there, that would be great. And if, hopefully, he is, then I'll go see him tomorrow. Maybe he'll, you know, want to help, try to find out where Jackie is.

Speaker 8:
[13:51] That would be amazing.

Speaker 6:
[13:52] That's the number one reason I want to talk to him.

Speaker 11:
[13:55] Right.

Speaker 5:
[13:57] I asked Krista how she found out that Jackie had disappeared.

Speaker 8:
[14:02] So I saw a post on our local chit chat group from Sebastien saying that she was missing.

Speaker 6:
[14:10] What day was that?

Speaker 8:
[14:12] I believe it was Tuesday or Wednesday, and he said that she had been missing for over 24 hours, I believe, at that time. So I asked what we could do to help and Sebastien, he ended up meeting up with me and telling my husband and myself the circumstances around how she went missing. For the first year after this happened, I was kind of a mess, because how can a woman just go missing, and us put out all that effort to find her, and she's still missing. It just doesn't compute to my brain, you know? I don't know Sebastien really personally, you know? I spent time with him during the search, and I walked away with not the best taste in my mouth, because he talked a lot about her mental health.

Speaker 5:
[15:30] Krista makes reference to messages that she says Sebastien showed her that were from Jackie on the day she disappeared. Messages that he said showed she had lost it and was distressed. Krista doesn't have any copies, but I'd like to see them for myself. Soon, I hope.

Speaker 8:
[15:56] Oh, and this is the house right here.

Speaker 6:
[15:57] Oh, it's got lights on.

Speaker 8:
[15:59] It sure does.

Speaker 6:
[16:01] Okay, so what's the entrance to that driveway right there?

Speaker 8:
[16:03] Yes.

Speaker 6:
[16:04] Okay.

Speaker 5:
[16:06] Before I undertake any interview, I like to make sure I'm making the best possible approach for success, make the luck come to me. And knocking on a door late evening with a microphone, probably not the best good faith gesture.

Speaker 6:
[16:21] So the door is accessible through the front there somehow? Yeah, the door is right there. Okay, yeah, all right. All right, I'll be knocking on that door tomorrow. Good luck.

Speaker 13:
[16:43] You know that feeling when you reach the end of a really good true crime series. You want to know more. More about the people involved, where the case is now, and what it's like behind the scenes. I get that. I'm Kathleen Goldharr, and on my podcast, Crime Story, I speak with the leading storytellers of true crime to dig deeper into the cases we all just can't stop thinking about. Find Crime Story wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 14:
[17:13] Welcome to this very special edition of Pepito Live. Actually, this special edition is nothing but a call for help.

Speaker 5:
[17:23] A video posted to YouTube on September 5th, 2021, by a radio personality named Yves Mallette. His show, called Pepito Live, says its purpose is to serve the XPAC community and to provide a live window on all the beauties and treasures Costa Rica has to offer. But this episode is about Jackie.

Speaker 14:
[17:47] Today, we invite Sebastien Ferland to share with us his story and his emotions concerning the disappearance of his wife. Sebastien Ferland, thank you for according us this interview. Your wife, Jaclyn Smith Ferland, has now disappeared since August 17th.

Speaker 15:
[18:09] Yes.

Speaker 14:
[18:10] Put us into context and to what you remember and what happened.

Speaker 15:
[18:16] Okay, to make a long story short, she had issues with too much stress and things like that, okay, that caused her to have paranoia, basically. And she had other stuff happening also in the same day. So that like really stressed her out. And she started slowly to basically like lose it literally, like I want to die and that kind of stuff. And I tried to raise on her and she just lost it on me while I was in shower. And by the time I basically came back to myself and what the hell happened there. And dried myself and I can get out of shower, she was just gone.

Speaker 5:
[18:58] As an investigative artifact, this video is the same as any news item documenting the aftermath of a disappearance or murder. Some make a living dissecting videos like this for any inflective tell or error. Are the people making sense of a terrifying story that they experienced, or is something else going on?

Speaker 12:
[19:22] Well, what we didn't know is that Jack had a doctor in Ontario when they were there, and the doctor said she had schizoaffective disorder, not schizophrenia or paranoia, schizoaffective. It's mostly anger issues, highs and lows, which she did have, you know, right?

Speaker 5:
[19:41] In 2019, Jackie was diagnosed with schizoaffective disorder by a Canadian doctor, according to records. Schizoaffective disorder is diagnosed in people who show a mix of schizophrenia symptoms like hallucinations or delusions, along with mood disorder characteristics like mania or depression. According to the Mayo Clinic, a person with schizoaffective disorder may talk about or attempt suicide. People diagnosed with schizoaffective can be treated with medication and get other supports that make life manageable. A report dated February 14, 2019, by Dr. Anthony Basinski of Wasaga Beach, Ontario, states that Jackie's schizoaffective disorder is manifesting in hallucinations, paranoia and delusions, and goes on to say in particular, Jackie's stress levels are elevated in situations of requiring her to interact with strangers, social interactions and any change to her routine environment. She does not adapt to changes to her routines and avoids interpersonal interactions when possible. Medications for anxiety and depression and for schizophrenia disorders are mentioned in the documentation, but I don't know what Jackie may or may not have been taking at the time of her disappearance. Medications mentioned in the documentation include esitalopram for anxiety and depression and aripiprazole for schizophrenia and bipolar disorders.

Speaker 12:
[21:12] Oh, Jackie. She was a really high functioning person. You wouldn't know that to anybody around her. As some of your friends thought, she was the nicest person. Besides her, we interviewed neighbors, and they all liked Jackie. She said hi, and hi to the kids. And she was a vegetarian going to Vig, and then exercised every day. She did stuff. She had to write down what she's going to do that day. Paddle boarding, core work, bike riding, maybe four things she'd do every day. And then she would cook up a special vegetarian food there. And she really was healthy and looked after herself. So, well, if you knew all the stuff that she accomplished, you can't be that ill if you're doing that, right? She had all of her safety. The psychiatrist said she had all of her safety skills with her or whatever, you know. So she wouldn't be going out in the dark without her own, you know, in a dark place there.

Speaker 5:
[22:05] But a healthy, active lifestyle doesn't mean that someone isn't struggling beneath the surface. Jackie's text messages could show a sunny demeanor. Jackie would text her parents, sent them photos of trees in her backyard, showing their growth with pride. Happy birthday messages, nature shots, lizards, butterflies, electric sunset photos. June 10th, 2021, 8:20 AM. I appreciate the good things you have done for me. I am also sorry for my reactions that hurt you. Love you too. June 20th, 2021, 10:20 AM. Happy Father's Day. Have a nice day. Heart emoji. August 1st, 2021, 1:39 PM. Hi, happy birthday to dad. We were busy landscaping this morning, just cooling off in the pool now. If you have time to Skype, let me know. August 6th, 2021, 4:29 PM. We are in Drake Bay, almost at the Panama border on the Pacific Coast. Green parrots, scarlet macaws and toucans were in the trees beside our patio this morning. August 15th, 2021, 10:37 AM. The bananas, lol. They were shorter than me. Gordon replies, wow, that's unreal. Will be great to have the fruit from everything. Jaclyn, yes. Thumbs up emoji. Sebastien makes claims that Jaclyn suffered from mental illness of some sort and paranoia, and he mentions that.

Speaker 12:
[23:42] I think we don't know what-

Speaker 10:
[23:42] Made it out to be way worse.

Speaker 12:
[23:44] Way worse it was.

Speaker 14:
[23:47] So to those people who may say or think that you have something to do with her disappearance, what do you respond?

Speaker 15:
[23:56] I would just have to say to those people, obviously they don't know me, okay, but I have nothing to prove to them. They can just come here instead of complaining and like see the efforts we're doing, so just come here and see.

Speaker 5:
[24:10] Sebastien has always denied having anything to do with Jackie's disappearance.

Speaker 14:
[24:15] So Jaclyn speaks English, so if by any chance Jaclyn would see this video, Sebastien, what would you like to tell her now?

Speaker 15:
[24:25] I would like to tell her that I just want her to be happy, okay, and if being happy for her like is not with me, okay, it's fine. I think that's the definition of love right there.

Speaker 5:
[24:40] The rough notion so far is that Jackie left her house on her own at night and didn't return. If Jackie just left when Sebastien was showering like he says, it apparently wouldn't have been the first time that she walked out. According to information I have found, Jackie had left the house before and stayed at Tamarindo Sheraton and once at Coe's in Jaco, a beach town in Costa Rica. But she wasn't found at either place this time.

Speaker 12:
[25:09] Well, he said she's done this before. She never did it for two nights. She did it a few times for one night. I guess they had an argument she would go to the hotel and then phone him and say she was okay.

Speaker 5:
[25:20] Sebastien served in Afghanistan in 2009, 2010 and sometime upon return began a process of claim related to PTSD, ultimately retiring in his mid-40s in 2019 on long-term disability. He received the General Campaign Star Southwest Asia decoration and the Canadian Forces decoration for serving 12 years with good conduct during his service. Some feel Sebastien may know more about what happened to Jackie. Others who know him well say heart of gold. Where is the truth and how can you find it?

Speaker 12:
[25:57] She might have went to a hotel for a night, but she always called back and told her passion she's okay and she'll be back in the morning. At this time, she didn't take her car and where they live up there, it's really dark and away from town. You just don't go out.

Speaker 5:
[26:13] Right.

Speaker 12:
[26:14] I'm walking on the road, so we started not to believe the story.

Speaker 5:
[26:19] Had Sebastien ever called you before when Jaclyn had left the house like that?

Speaker 12:
[26:26] No, he hasn't called us, no. No, we just heard about it later or something, you know.

Speaker 5:
[26:31] So if this happened a year earlier, you say, and he says in the YouTube video, Sebastien, that it had happened before, going to a hotel, I'm safe, you know, she would call. He never called you and said, oh, Jaclyn's left, I don't know where she is, or this happened, she left and she called, she's okay. He never called to reassure you or to tell you that she had disappeared before this.

Speaker 12:
[26:51] No, no, no.

Speaker 5:
[26:52] Okay. I mean, do you ask what made this occasion different in your head? Like, why would he call this time, do you think?

Speaker 12:
[27:00] No, I never really thought about it, that angle of attempt, why he called that time.

Speaker 10:
[27:04] I guess because she hadn't come back.

Speaker 5:
[27:10] Jackie disappeared sometime in the latter part of August 17th, 2021. Sebastien called Jackie's parents late day on the 18th, and a missing report was filed with police on August 19th. Jackie, it's said, left behind her cell phone, her credit cards, and her wedding ring at her house on the evening of August 17th, 2021. I'll need to get into those details and confirm that.

Speaker 3:
[27:38] I kind of had two thoughts go through my mind.

Speaker 5:
[27:41] Jackie's sister canned us upon hearing that Jackie was missing.

Speaker 3:
[27:46] One was that she'll be back. She's probably just mad and she'll be back. Or maybe she killed herself. Those were the two things that were the only two options in my brain that I thought at the time. I was thinking that we would find her and then physical evidence would go from there. Like, that yes, suicide was still an option, but that there were other options. And so I think I was just focusing on the finding cart. She never really wanted to be on medication. She also wasn't happy because the medication made her gain weight. And so she was heavier than she had been, probably ever. So it's just like anybody, you have the side effects of medication you have to deal with. And then you have to decide whether the side effects are worth the medication. And so she was on medication for a while there. Things seemed like they were going well.

Speaker 11:
[28:51] But she decided that she didn't like the side effects of the medication. And so she did go off after a while.

Speaker 5:
[28:58] I asked Candice for her thoughts on Sebastien.

Speaker 3:
[29:02] He was, um, how, what's the right word? Um, somebody who came across when you first met him, you're like, okay, very opinionated and confident, selfish, word, arrogant. So I didn't think like anything horribly negative about it at the time. Just was like, wow, he's really opinionated. I would get messages or phone calls about fights that she had with Sebastien and her problems that maybe she or a fight that she had with mom and dad. I don't remember hearing any physical part. She would talk about the things that they would say to each other. And it was sounded really low blow, horrible fights. It sounded like they both were having issues. Things like, you know, you should kill yourself and, you know, I hope you die. Just horrible things that you would never want somebody in a relationship to be in a relationship like that.

Speaker 5:
[30:04] Some of the texts I've seen that Jackie sent to Candace show what Jackie said she was experiencing with Sebastien. This one from October 14th, 2019. Yes, we always fight now because we don't agree on a lot of things, but they never get resolved because he just loses it and often leaves, but he has never left all night or for good or ignored me. And a final one from April 28th, 2021. Sebastien has told me at least a hundred times that he will kill himself and that the only good thing is that it will be my fault. There is no way to know if Sebastien actually said these things and I hope to ask him about it when I see him, along with the timings of everything that happened. Colleen and Gordon say that soon after their arrival to look for Jackie, things got weird. They had been staying with Sebastien and had even helped him clean up the place when police, Colleen and Gordon say, took them aside and told them to leave the house.

Speaker 12:
[31:06] That's when they told us. They took us in separately, obviously, from Sebastien and said, get out of the house now.

Speaker 5:
[31:22] Even so, Colleen and Gordon say, they took the advice of the police and left the house that day. Gordon then says the OIJ told him something else.

Speaker 12:
[31:33] Then they interviewed Sebastien, then they interviewed us, and the boss there leaned forward and said to us, Sebastien was involved in her disappearance. They think that the husband, Sebastien, was involved.

Speaker 5:
[31:48] I'll try to talk to police and get their opinions first hand. Maybe get my hands on their investigative file. Sebastien was never charged or arrested, and it's over two years later, so time to go find him and see if he can help me solve what happened to Jackie.

Speaker 6:
[32:09] And it's the next morning.

Speaker 5:
[32:11] Heading to see Sebastien at the house I was at last night. Then we can start the process of getting all the questions out and seeing if there's any answers to them. It's hot here. Nice, like, I don't know, about 28 degrees already. Humid on the Pacific Coast.

Speaker 6:
[32:43] What Sebastien has to say.

Speaker 7:
[33:02] Head northeast on Calle La Iglesia toward Avenida Central, Ruta Nacional Secundaria 151.

Speaker 5:
[33:08] Got it.

Speaker 7:
[33:09] Avenida Central.

Speaker 5:
[33:13] So just on my way up into the sort of foothills around, Playa Coco. Good dog.

Speaker 6:
[33:21] That's a nice dog, nice black and white dog on the street here.

Speaker 5:
[33:24] Don't know your name, but he does seem nice.

Speaker 6:
[33:27] There's lots of stray or unhomed other animals here, dogs and cats.

Speaker 5:
[33:35] But I think Costa Ricans care for them quite a bit, even if they are stray. I'm not sure Sebastien's going to want to talk to me.

Speaker 6:
[33:48] There's many reasons why he might not want to talk to me.

Speaker 5:
[33:50] This case happened 2021.

Speaker 6:
[33:52] He may not want to talk about it at all because he feels like he's gotten past Jackie's disappearance or there might be other reasons and we can never really guess those. So if Sebastien does not want to talk to me, it doesn't necessarily mean anything if he doesn't want to talk to me. There's lots of reasons not to say something.

Speaker 5:
[34:15] Here's one of the guard houses, unoccupied. This development has guard houses and this one here is unoccupied. I'm just pulling up two. Now, I'm just going to do a drive-by of the house here and just sort of see what I can see from the house as is my practice.

Speaker 7:
[34:40] In 200 meters, your destination will be on the left.

Speaker 6:
[34:45] Some guy's looking at me there.

Speaker 5:
[34:47] Get my business cards ready here. Take off your sunglasses. Let's just listen for check, check, hello.

Speaker 6:
[35:00] Hi. Hello. Oh, shit, my batteries are going low. Crap.

Speaker 5:
[35:08] Okay.

Speaker 6:
[35:09] I'm going to have to change the batteries.

Speaker 5:
[35:10] Good thing I checked.

Speaker 6:
[35:11] Good thing I brought extras.

Speaker 5:
[35:16] Check, check, hello, that's good.

Speaker 6:
[35:18] Let's go and make over my shoulder here. Makes it look less threatening, but who knows.

Speaker 5:
[35:50] Morning, how are you? Good.

Speaker 6:
[35:52] Is Sebastien here?

Speaker 5:
[36:19] Someone Knows Something is hosted, written, and produced by me, David Ridgen. The series is also produced by Maria Jose Burgos. Sound design by Evan Kelly. Natalia Ferguson is our transcriber. Emily Cannell is our digital producer. Chris Oke is our story editor. Our executive producer is Cesil Fernandes. Tanya Springer is the senior manager, and Arif Noorani is the director of CBC podcasts. You can binge all episodes of Someone Knows Something early on the CBC True Crime YouTube channel, or for early and ad-free listening, subscribe to the CBC True Crime Premium channel on Apple podcasts. Just click on the link in the show description. If you're looking for more investigations, check out the past seasons of Someone Knows Something. There are nine cases you can binge listen to now. Season eight investigates the disappearance of Angel Carlick, a young indigenous woman from Whitehorse, Yukon. Season nine revisits my investigation into the murder of Christine Harron and the conviction of the man who confessed to her murder. Find Someone Knows Something on the CBC True Crime YouTube channel or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 4:
[37:55] For more CBC podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts.